MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: JohnT on May 31, 2016, 06:46:09 PM
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Did anyone else catch the news tonight? A story on Rays and BCF closing stores.. Could this be the end for them.
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Been on the cards for a while, they can't make Rays profitable...
In a statement to the stock market, Super Retail Group, which owns Ray’s Outdoors stores, announced earlier this month that 12 stores would be re-branded to new-look RAYS stores, 16 would remain open and be converted to another brand within the group and the remaining 23 would be closed or converted depending on their financial status. The statement did not reveal plans for individual stores.
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20160505/pdf/43710nkyw8624q.pdf (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20160505/pdf/43710nkyw8624q.pdf)
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Unfortunately the writings on the wall for most bigbox operators. High rents, purely because of the space they require, and staff costs are killing that sector of retail, particularly when they are competing with online stores and the click and collect method. Harvey Norman saw it first and that's why each individual store has a separate franchise owner for each department.......Gerry is spreading the risk around.
I cringe every time an owner walks through my door saying that their showroom tenant is moving out and can I find another tenant. That exercise can take 1 to 2 years and the building is sitting there chewing its head off cost wise.
When you can run an online operation for less than half the rent and probably 25% of the staff costs it just doesn't make sense to have a shop front.
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I went in to a new branded Rays it was crap!
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Rays Mackay was closing down a few weeks ago!
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Mt Barker SA closed today I heard?
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In the last 4 years, Rays have closed their Erina store, and now their Lake Haven store is closing at the end of June. That leaves the nearest as Castle Hill and Kotara IIRC for the NSW Central Coast.
There was an interesting piece on the [ur=http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-kmart-ate-target-a-story-of-retail-cannibalism-20160531-gp85os.htmll]SMH website about KMart eating Target[/url] - I can see something similar with BCF and Ray's as there is not sufficient differentiation between the two stores.
Add in the appearance of Decathlon from Europe (http://www.decathlon.com.au/), and that's going to really shake up the market sector - I used them a lot in the UK and France over the last 20 years or so; at one point it was the cheapest way to get a Shimano XT or XTR groupset, you even got a free frame and forks! Not quite as good value as it was, but still pretty good when you understand their brand hierarchy.
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No BCF Stores are closing that I have heard of.
Newly rebranded Ray's stores are not after seasoned campers such as this group.
SRG have BCF for the more experienced outdoors people.
The new Ray's are after the weekend tryer outers.
The people who want to try hiking, camping, fishing etc.
But they want to spend as little as possible to see if they like it.
Little $$ usually equates to not so expensive stuff.
SRG have been revamping some Rays stores, closing some Rays stores and relocating other Ray's stores for nearly 2 years.
So that actually makes it old news.
Bill
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I used to shop at Rays.
Then they started house-branding every item in the store as "Wild Country"... so I moved to Anaconda... bad move. They're worse.
BCF... same deal.
Sorry... but if I want to buy brand name camping gear... then that's what I want... not "insert generic brand here".
Online is the way to go.
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I never understood why they competed against themselves. Supercheap included.
It's silly when you Can buy the same item from Supercheap $200 cheaper than at bcf.
Hopefully most stores get rebranded rather than closing as to minimise job losses.
Cheers
Nick
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I used to shop at Rays.
Then they started house-branding every item in the store as "Wild Country"... so I moved to Anaconda... bad move. They're worse.
BCF... same deal.
Sorry... but if I want to buy brand name camping gear... then that's what I want... not "insert generic brand here".
Online is the way to go.
Where is the like button, I am sick of businesses filling their shelves with self branded crap.
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Was up at Mooloolaba a few weeks ago and bought an Amp-Fibian from the local Bunnings for $268....Ray's had them for $298.
If they were the same price or close to Bunnings I would have bought it there.
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I used to shop at Rays.
Then they started house-branding every item in the store as "Wild Country"... so I moved to Anaconda... bad move. They're worse.
BCF... same deal.
Sorry... but if I want to buy brand name camping gear... then that's what I want... not "insert generic brand here".
Online is the way to go.
Totally agree. I visit rays bcf anaconda etc and there is just the same old crap. My love in life is buying camping paraphernalia that I may not need or use.
Home brand stuff spoils this.
I walk through the local big name stores and are basically bored. Same old same old.
I love going into specialised hiking shops or country camping stores because they have interesting items that campers need or lust after.
The local bcf are having a clearance sale. Went in to have a look today and yawned. Total country hike arama rugged ...... spare me.
Feel sorry for the staff that will lose their jobs though.
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Totally agree. I visit rays bcf anaconda etc and there is just the same old crap. My love in life is buying camping paraphernalia that I may not need or use.
Home brand stuff spoils this.
I walk through the local big name stores and are basically bored. Same old same old.
I love going into specialised hiking shops or country camping stores because they have interesting items that campers need or lust after.
The local bcf are having a clearance sale. Went in to have a look today and yawned. Total country hike arama rugged ...... spare me.
Feel sorry for the staff that will lose their jobs though.
Some of the best camping, fishing and hunting stuff I have ever bought came from little out of the way shops.
Usually Mom and Pop shops.
Bill
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I used to shop at Rays.
Then they started house-branding every item in the store as "Wild Country"... so I moved to Anaconda... bad move. They're worse.
BCF... same deal.
Sorry... but if I want to buy brand name camping gear... then that's what I want... not "insert generic brand here".
Online is the way to go.
There use to be a great little camping shop in a back street just off Pennant Hills Rd at Thornleigh. Sadly I don't think it is there anymore.
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Snowys in Adelaide the only way to go
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There's a really good one in Launceston - Tas . In addition to the really top shelf ones , paddy Palin , mountain designs .
Or a ripper in Mansfield - small mum dad operation .
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Online is the way to go.
Thats why stores are closing. We all want bargains for reputable brands. Then in ten years we will all be complaining that everything is online and no stores to visit. Next we will be complaining everything is coming from China..... hang on we do that now ;D ;D ;D
Mark
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I went in to a new branded Rays it was crap!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160531/beff11fbd86f95b86f73998f32dfd204.jpg)
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Thats why stores are closing. We all want bargains for reputable brands. Then in ten years we will all be complaining that everything is online and no stores to visit. Next we will be complaining everything is coming from China..... hang on we do that now ;D ;D ;D
Mark
True as this is I refuse to pay inflated prices for Chinese crap I can get for 10% of the price online so if I want cheap stuff that I am willing to take a gamble on and throw out then online it is. If I want quality stuff, need advice, fitting or aftermarket support I will happily buy it from a quality (non big box) store to support local small business.
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Totally agree. I visit rays bcf anaconda etc and there is just the same old crap. My love in life is buying camping paraphernalia that I may not need or use.
Home brand stuff spoils this.
I walk through the local big name stores and are basically bored. Same old same old.
I love going into specialised hiking shops or country camping stores because they have interesting items that campers need or lust after.
The local bcf are having a clearance sale. Went in to have a look today and yawned. Total country hike arama rugged ...... spare me.
Feel sorry for the staff that will lose their jobs though.
Same......
Best camping shops I have been into are the Newsagency / Haberdashery / Camping store in Winton......dusty old shop with different stuff and packed to the rafters. In NZ last year walked into a camping store in Rotorua and it was full of awesome stuff from diving to shooting and all high quality branded gear. I am not big into guns but that was really interesting to see.......
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Where is the like button, I am sick of businesses filling their shelves with self branded crap.
2 Coles stores I went to tonight had no milk but their own brand...
Some of the best camping, fishing and hunting stuff I have ever bought came from little out of the way shops.
Usually Mom and Pop shops.
I'll agree with that.
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Thats why stores are closing. We all want bargains for reputable brands. Then in ten years we will all be complaining that everything is online and no stores to visit. Next we will be complaining everything is coming from China..... hang on we do that now ;D ;D ;D
Mark
This post sums it all up very well....
Have a close look at 'category killer' Spotlight and their party section - Sparties....
Shocking crap service and (most) products crap for both..... But in the meanwhile they have destroyed every independent mom & pop craft and haberdashery store... because "all the morans" (sorry) wanted a bargain. ... now the independent party shops are falling in the same way as the independent craft shops. .... that's down to the Sparties element of Spotlight - as well as what Big W etc are doing in the craft and party categories ..........
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2 Coles stores I went to tonight had no milk but their own brand...
I'll agree with that.
No one should be going to Coles to get milk (or any other Australian grown produce for that matter), I am surprised you went to two of them, are there no independent stores over that side of the island?
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Where is the like button, I am sick of businesses filling their shelves with self branded crap.
yep me too
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No one should be going to Coles to get milk (or any other Australian grown produce for that matter), I am surprised you went to two of them, are there no independent stores over that side of the island?
Wasn't there for milk, but walked through that section...
Very few independent places though :(
Then in ten years we will all be complaining
10 years?? I'd say more like 3-5 tops.
We were in Country Vic years ago and found an awesome camping store that only had 2-3 stores all in country vic.. but they had EVERYTHING.. put Rays and Anna to shame.. wish I could remember the name of the place..
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Our one decent camping store closed last year, for no other reason then the lady running the store had been doing it for long enough and due to family reasons needed a change, so that left us with BCF, the army disposal and one other camping shop that is attached to a fishing tackle shop and recently Kathmandu.
BCF is as good as useless and when they do have something we would like, they don't have it.
The army disposal has a good range of what it carries but not a lot of what we would like.
The camping place attached to the fishing tackle shop has a great selection other some good brand name gear, but their range and service or lack of, make it really hard to do business with.
Kathmandu, some great over priced stuff that can leave a lot to be desired.
While I prefer to buy something I can see and check for myself, unless we go travelling wide and far, unfortunately there is not much option but to buy online, particularly if you are after something specific which local shops don't show much interest in getting in for you because you want buy something else they have on the shelf.
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Camping and outdoor equipment stores Western Vic. "Lyal Eales Stores".
Main Street Ararat (Barkly Street) as well as other towns.
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Our local high-street camping store just closed down. Was sad to see the old guy go but he's retired, I've bought stuff ranging from compasses to Ex-German Army Jerry cans from him (yes buying a German 'Jerry' Can made me laugh)
Went to Ray's once, it was rubbish. Sometimes go to BCF and have bought online from BCF - usually have to send something back due to damage in transit. Now mostly buy from Snowys (never had an issue) and have bought online from Drifta. (I actually think Drifta is exy and possibly overpriced tbh, but the quality of their snowpeak gear is awesome and I will pay for quality).
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I'm lucky here in town we have 2 good independents, and therefore rarely need to go to BCF.
Armidale Outdoors (http://www.armidaleoutdoors.com.au/): Range of brand names for Aussie bush camping, good local knowledge and some good products they have had made for themselves. Pretty keen pricing, and some interesting product lines from named brands
Adventure195 (http://www.adventure195.com.au/): Lightweight backpacking gear; honest with prices (will tell me when stuff is about to go up as the dollar is diving - expect anything imported to keep going up at the moment)
I try to buy one thing one month from each of them, even if it's just something that's $40 or $50 - other times I'll spend a bit more in them, depending on what we need at the time.
I also use local saddlery's for things like bags as they'll make them to order for me.
With regards to the Snowpeak gear; it's always been expensive, but is beautifully made...
I do miss some of the shops I had in the UK for camping gear - Tamarack Outdoors (http://www.tamarackoutdoors.co.uk/) and Trekkitt (http://www.trekitt.co.uk) were both awesome and would make some of you guys cry at the prices and range they had - but the generic chain stores were much the same; an ordinary range that was more geared towards recreational festival campers (I saw it with one of the stores I used to work for - I worked in outdoor retail for about 4 years) rather than the more serious campers.
Lastly, one problem I find with Kathmandu/Anaconda (part of the Spotlight group)/Mountain Designs is that they all have the same (very Australian) practice of running high prices, and then doing "sales" to bring them down to sane prices.
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To pick up on the point of buying online v bricks n mortar because we all want a bargain.. I put my hand up. If I can find it cheaper online or overseas Im going to buy it. Why?
Because someone in the supply chain is taking the piss out of Australia. Here is an example:
A coleman Hot Water on Demand H2Oasis will be used for this comparison
Amazon price $295.99 USD converts to $367.80 (Retail)
Rays price $449.00 (Retail)
Now I know I haven't included shipping in this cost, but you cant tell me a container full of these things adds $50 odd dollars to each item in that container.
An example closer to home.
Im in the market for a Black Wolf Turbo 300 Plus Lite.
I range Rays the other day and was told a price around $1250 (I was quickly told that they can price match though). Snowy's everyday price for the same product $1085 (Ill be seeing you soon Snowy's :))
With this much variation and the addition of the Australian Tax you will have to forgive me for shopping smart.
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To pick up on the point of buying online v bricks n mortar because we all want a bargain.. I put my hand up. If I can find it cheaper online or overseas Im going to buy it. Why?
Because someone in the supply chain is taking the piss out of Australia. Here is an example:
A coleman Hot Water on Demand H2Oasis will be used for this comparison
Amazon price $295.99 USD converts to $367.80 (Retail)
Rays price $449.00 (Retail)
Now I know I haven't included shipping in this cost, but you cant tell me a container full of these things adds $50 odd dollars to each item in that container.
An example closer to home.
Im in the market for a Black Wolf Turbo 300 Plus Lite.
I range Rays the other day and was told a price around $1250 (I was quickly told that they can price match though). Snowy's everyday price for the same product $1085
With this much variation and the addition of the Australian Tax you will have to forgive me for shopping smart.
They have lost their point of difference and have created a business model for short term gain (rebranding cheap crap) which has now placed them in the same market as the online importers. They have had this coming for quite some time - we built the Lawnton facility for them a long time ago and have watched this happen over a lot of years since the old boy started selling batteries under his house.
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I went in to a new branded Rays it was crap!
X2
went there on Saturday, 1st time for a long time. Very pretty but a lot less stock, nothing I would want >:(
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Because someone in the supply chain is taking the piss out of Australia.
Agreed, I needed quickly a small part for my Fox shocks, options were $10 delivered online from the UK 7-10 days delivery or $25 from a local bike shop. As I needed it quickly I paid the AU supply chain tax. I asked the dude in the bike shop if it was made from rare ubotonium, he said quote 'that's aussie wholesalers for you'.
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Wasn't there for milk, but walked through that section...
Very few independent places though :(
10 years?? I'd say more like 3-5 tops.
We were in Country Vic years ago and found an awesome camping store that only had 2-3 stores all in country vic.. but they had EVERYTHING.. put Rays and Anna to shame.. wish I could remember the name of the place..
GTS George Taylor Stores
Starsky
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As consumers and Australians we cant continue to purchase items online from overseas and then complain that there is no manufacturing and or limited job prospects for Australians. We are all guilty of this including myself.
Unless as a whole country we agree to all take a pay cut and reduce our labour costs and get local manufacturing going again and to help reduce costs for retailers due to high wages we need to consider paying extra at the checkout to help keep fellow Australians employed.
I have worked in a number of industries including Retail and the number one cost for every industry I have worked in is labour..
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I doubt that people taking a pay cut would decrease how much I pay at the checkout. However I would bet that profit margins increase expediently.
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Snowys in Adelaide the only way to go
X100
Snowys is a small independent business with staff that actually camp/hike/etc and know their stuff, quality stock, and good prices (I particularly like their "dark room" where you can try and compare their various stocked torches).
They also have a nice online shop - http://www.snowys.com.au (http://www.snowys.com.au)
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Our rays closed up a couple of years ago. Akin to a $2 shop in the end. I don't see BCfs as anything other than tackle stores. The boating and camping bit are jokes. But generally the fishing gear and knowledge is okay cause a pimply faced 17yo can actually now a lot about fishing. Anaconda 5h1+ me to tears.
We don't have the population to compete with OS retailers. As they get bigger and offer better shipping deals the locals are screwed. With Aussie rents and labour the need for reps/support in each state it's a akin to distrubting across the USA or Eu but to only 20m people.
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We used to love Rays. Bought heaps of stuff over the years but when Super Retail got their hands on it that all changed. I was surprised just how smartly they watered down the range and replaced the knowledgeable staff with pimply kids.
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Thats why stores are closing. We all want bargains for reputable brands. Then in ten years we will all be complaining that everything is online and no stores to visit. Next we will be complaining everything is coming from China..... hang on we do that now ;D ;D ;D
Mark
yes but no.
I'm, I suppose, "not normal" in that despite minimal finances, I'm happy to pay "normal" price. I'm not chasing super deals. I just want the brands and products I want.
If for example, I want Keen sandals, (which I wear every single day, yes, even at work) and I'm happy to pay $169 (or more) for them, then no amount of Wild Country sandals at $39 is going to tempt me. If all the (within reasonable distance... say... 50-80 klm) camping/outdoor stores want to sell me house branded rubbish, then I'll go online to find them.
My first option is always local stores with an online presence.
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Drove past Rays in South Morang (Vic) this morning. Looks like it's either being refurbished / rebranded, or stripped out and closed down. A Super Cheap Auto opened up some 20 metres from it a few months back.
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As consumers and Australians we cant continue to purchase items online from overseas and then complain that there is no manufacturing and or limited job prospects for Australians. We are all guilty of this including myself.
Unless as a whole country we agree to all take a pay cut and reduce our labour costs and get local manufacturing going again and to help reduce costs for retailers due to high wages we need to consider paying extra at the checkout to help keep fellow Australians employed.
I have worked in a number of industries including Retail and the number one cost for every industry I have worked in is labour..
Manufacturing is changing. . They need to focus on specialist and advanced tech systems and advanced services. eg Building warships. The simple metal banging to make the hull can be done cheaper elsewhere, Australia just can't compete with cheap labour. The manufacturing money in Australia can be made by making the internal combat systems, propulsion systems etc. Manufacturers need to focus on those industries to remain viable.
And they are doing it. There's a suspension company in SA that makes shock absorbers for the mining industry. They do it really well. They now also make all the shock absorbers for most of the F1 teams. They've just increased their workforce from 10 to 40 staff.
Its not all doom and gloom (govt) figures show that between 2006-2011, 400,000 jobs were lost from older firms, but 1.5million were created by start-ups.
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Thats why stores are closing. We all want bargains for reputable brands.
We all want value for money.
Pre internet / online shopping, you'd either spend a few hours ringing around the stores in your area, or visiting them in person. Might find it cheaper on the other side of town, but the extra fuel cost, or travel time negated that saving and you sucked it up and paid the premium.
Fast forward to now and you don't just look at the 2-3 stores in your area, you look at the 2-300 stores in Australia!
Some of the best online stores are bricks & mortar business that were proactive and watched consumer behaviour and changed with the times. Alot of the stores that close, were reactive, or never changed to make themselves standout. Some business owners to need realise their market is no longer their suburb and surrounding areas anymore, its the entire nation.
Last year I wanted a Fiamma F45 awning. Went to 3 caravan parts / accessory places in my area, all 3 had minimal to no online presence. None had any in stock, fair enough, but all just quoted me the RRP. "can you do any better?" "Nupe" was the answer.
Checked out GreenRV's website (2000km from my place) and they were a few hundred cheaper, even with freight! Contacted Adam via Myswag and got an even better deal. Then he arranged for me to pick it up direct from their wholesaler in Melbourne to save freight. The wholesaler is a 10-15 minute drive from all 3 caravan places I visited.
So now a business has a new customer who lives 2000km away.
The other weekend I had a late night 4 figure eBay shopping spree for the new 4by. I could have spent 4-5 hours on my Saturday driving to 4-5 different stores to get everything I needed.
Went to 4 different eBay sellers, who are all bricks and mortar stores. Selected everything I needed, added it to the shopping cart and paid for it all in 1 hit. That was Friday night and by the following Thursday, received everything.
Business need to stay 1 step ahead of the consumer. Not just rely on 'old fashion service'.
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Just got an email from Ray's advising a 25% discount store wide.
Pretty much what Dick Smith stores did recently.
Look gone to me.
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Just got an email from Ray's advising a 25% discount store wide.
Pretty much what Dick Smith stores did recently.
Look gone to me.
if only I needed stuff... :(
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That's the thing, with the broken business model they have at 25% off they are probably still more expensive than some others
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Always stop in at Bartons of Barmera. Not the biggest camping store around but have some great gear and whenever we have been there looking at a particular item if it is coming on to a catalogue sale soon they will discount it as we live over 100km away. Good service if you ask me
Also find the Spot on at Berri to have a great range of camping fishing kayaks etc. Long way to travel but would have to be my favourite camping and fishing store
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I was in the local Ray's last week with a gift card and the shop assistant told me that if I had any more then I only had a couple of months to use it. A pity, I agree with most of the above comments re reagent and price etc. but he staff at this particular store have always given excellent service and nothing has ever been too much trouble. Interestingly the BCF is a couple of hundred metres away ( if that ) and is the opposite.
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I also use local saddlery's for things like bags as they'll make them to order for me.
Paddler Ed, anyone in particular you would recommend ? I am looking to get a scabbard made for my camp knife - which is a large blade and an odd shape.
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Bill Morris in Kurri Kurri does good custom leather work, he might be able to help you. I can find his details if you like.
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Bill Morris in Kurri Kurri does good custom leather work, he might be able to help you. I can find his details if you like.
If you could, that would be great. My time is split between Armidale (hence asking Ed) and Vacy, which isn't all that far from Kurri.