MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bird on February 25, 2016, 09:13:21 AM
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Maybe I missed this one, but talking to a bloke this morning at the mechanics and he was informed that "Rated D Shackles" are no longer allowed for your safety chains...
Only bow shackles as you can tell when they stretch.. ???
I'm feeling lots of manure on this, as surely if your trailer fell off and you needed your chains, you'd replace the shackles anyway - I don't think they would be in a good way..
Thoughts?
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Maybe I missed this one, but talking to a bloke this morning at the mechanics and he was informed that "Rated D Shackles" are no longer allowed for your safety chains...
Only bow shackles as you can tell when they stretch.. ???
I'm feeling lots of manure on this, as surely if your trailer fell off and you needed your chains, you'd replace the shackles anyway - I don't think they would be in a good way..
Thoughts?
I think he was pulling your leg mate... either that or he just doesn't know.
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I think he was pulling your leg mate... either that or he just doesn't know.
This was my thought, but another dude there said 'yea he was told similar'...
but along with you I think its manure.
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From the QLD Transport and main roads..
Safety Chain Connections to Tow Bar
Safety chain(s) must be suitably and appropriately connected to a tow bar. The use of a shackle is permitted, provided the shackle used is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain in terms of strength and size.
It goes on to list a selection of suitable "D" shackles
Safe Towing PDF (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiMm_nC05HLAhXG4aYKHXF6CyEQFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tmr.qld.gov.au%2F~%2Fmedia%2FSafety%2FVehicle%2520standards%2520and%2520modifications%2FLoads%2520and%2520towing%2FSafe%2520towing%2FSafe_towing_guide.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFyMpHut3Cbsei_Dy_ls7Kj1UkcJQ&sig2=Q75twK-71ZjK8Vh3be7H7w&cad=rja) page 5
So I call BS.. At least in QLD.. :cheers:
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The whole issue is bloody confusing if you ask me. Everyone has an opinion mostly different to the next person. What irritates me is there is no consistancy in the opinions from those who should know. Hell even the RACV has contridictory advice to its members on the subject.
What I do know is that there has been a change in very recent times and that change seems to be spreading.
The Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development (DIRD) have published the Vehicle Regulations which are part of the ADRs. You can read it here: https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx From what I can tell its fairly straight forward. Then, as recently as february this year, the Queensland Department of Transport and Main roads published an updated Safe Towing Guide which now mirrors the DIRD's standards. They say what you must do not what you should do.
As far as shackles are concerned, they are not even mentioned in the Vehicle Regulations. They just talk about the chains and the attachment points.
The towing guide says: The safety chains must be properly connected to the tow bar with attachments capable of withstanding the specified breaking load of each chain. Do not use padlocks.
It goes on to say: Safety chain(s) must be suitably and appropriately connected to a tow bar. The use of a shackle is permitted, provided the shackle used is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain in terms of strength and size.
It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner/operator to ensure that a shackle, if used to attach safety chain to tow bar, is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain.
and then further on: Alternatively, the use of a shackle that is compatible with the safety chain AND is of a reputable brand. In this case, the shackle will have appropriate markings to show the brand and/or part identification sufficient to trace its brand and strength.
It should be recognised that a shackle that does not have any markings makes it difficult to establish its strength or compatibility with the safety chain. It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner/operator to satisfactorily address inquiries raised during any roadside audit by an enforcement officer.
Notes:
Usually diameter of the shackle pin is larger than the shackle body.
The strength of a shackle will vary according to its grade. An “S” grade shackle will be stronger than an “M” grade shackle of the same size.
Stainless steel shackles are generally unsuitable for trailer use due to the material’s general low resistance to bending stresses.
A Bow shackle will provide flexibility for greater angular movement compared to a “D” shackle.
From all of that, I'd say D or bow shackles...doesn't matter as long as they are rated.
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The whole issue is bloody confusing if you ask me. Everyone has an opinion mostly different to the next person. What irritates me is there is no consistancy in the opinions from those who should know. Hell even the RACV has contridictory advice to its members on the subject.
What I do know is that there has been a change in very recent times and that change seems to be spreading.
The Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development (DIRD) have published the Vehicle Regulations which are part of the ADRs. You can read it here: https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx From what I can tell its fairly straight forward. Then, as recently as february this year, the Queensland Department of Transport and Main roads published an updated Safe Towing Guide which now mirrors the DIRD's standards. They say what you must do not what you should do.
As far as shackles are concerned, they are not even mentioned in the Vehicle Regulations. They just talk about the chains and the attachment points.
The towing guide says: The safety chains must be properly connected to the tow bar with attachments capable of withstanding the specified breaking load of each chain. Do not use padlocks.
It goes on to say: Safety chain(s) must be suitably and appropriately connected to a tow bar. The use of a shackle is permitted, provided the shackle used is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain in terms of strength and size.
It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner/operator to ensure that a shackle, if used to attach safety chain to tow bar, is fit for the purpose and compatible with the safety chain.
and then further on: Alternatively, the use of a shackle that is compatible with the safety chain AND is of a reputable brand. In this case, the shackle will have appropriate markings to show the brand and/or part identification sufficient to trace its brand and strength.
It should be recognised that a shackle that does not have any markings makes it difficult to establish its strength or compatibility with the safety chain. It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner/operator to satisfactorily address inquiries raised during any roadside audit by an enforcement officer.
Notes:
Usually diameter of the shackle pin is larger than the shackle body.
The strength of a shackle will vary according to its grade. An “S” grade shackle will be stronger than an “M” grade shackle of the same size.
Stainless steel shackles are generally unsuitable for trailer use due to the material’s general low resistance to bending stresses.
A Bow shackle will provide flexibility for greater angular movement compared to a “D” shackle.
From all of that, I'd say D or bow shackles...doesn't matter as long as they are rated.
think that says it all
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If I remember correctly at one stage they wanted to use shackles of a particular load rating but the problem was they would not fit through the chain links. Defeated the purpose and thank goodness sanity prevailed.
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I'd say someone read the first few pages of the riggers guide then got drunk. Bow shackles will carry loads further around the bight than a d shackle, but that is only when the same load is applied to the other side of the bight (2leg lift). There is no way anyone can say one is better than the other because not all tow setups are the same and what shackles do in a towing/emergency sense is well outside what they are designed to do from a rigging point of view that any argument is moot before it begins. If it's stamped with an appropriate WLL, it'll do. Guaranteed they aren't the first things to break when it all goes to custard.
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This is what I posted in an old thread so things may have changed in the last 13 days
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=24279.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=24279.0)
Here's a few links about this myth
Bottom of this page from VicRoad
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/vehicle-safety/safe-caravanning (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/vehicle-safety/safe-caravanning)
http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/royalauto/home/motoring/information-advice/general-information/royalatuo-d-rumours-debunked (http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/royalauto/home/motoring/information-advice/general-information/royalatuo-d-rumours-debunked)
It has never been a direction in Victoria that rated shackles must be used (under 3500kg). It is plausible that one police officer has misread the VSB and thought that rated shackles were needed, much the same way the the OP did. It is just as likely that the same police officer recommended rated shackles, after booking the friend of a friend's, cousin's neighbour for not having the chains connected at all!
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Gezzz Louise.....Even a half carton of beer don't make ya this confused ..... ??? ???
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This interesting link was in an NRMA email today.
http://www.mynrma.com.au/get-involved/advocacy/news/d-shackle-mystery-deepens-as-warning-sign-revealed.htm (http://www.mynrma.com.au/get-involved/advocacy/news/d-shackle-mystery-deepens-as-warning-sign-revealed.htm)
Lemo.
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Which links to this
http://www.mynrma.com.au/get-involved/advocacy/news/confusion-reigns-over-caravan-couplings.htm (http://www.mynrma.com.au/get-involved/advocacy/news/confusion-reigns-over-caravan-couplings.htm)
Seems where all good here in NSW, mind you I have a rated d-shackle even on my 6x4 box trailer.
Lemo.
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If I remember correctly at one stage they wanted to use shackles of a particular load rating but the problem was they would not fit through the chain links. Defeated the purpose and thank goodness sanity prevailed.
I think most mis-read the detail in selecting the correct shackle.
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But, but, but it was on the internet so it must be true.................
Also a bloke I knew who's missus dated a copper who used to work in WA told a friend of hers.
...................... :angel:
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As a rigger I can tell you a bow shackle is recommended if you have 2 chains coming off it at an angle i.e. 2 chains, 1 fixed anchor point. A dee shackle is used for a straight pull i.e. 1 chain 1 fixed point. So long as either type is rated you're good to go.
One thing I have noticed is some of the shackles I have seen from China have a different rating system. Don't trust them. If you only use rated shackles from a reputable supplier you can't go wrong.
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Just been told by 2 4wd store owners that apparently it is true...
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As a rigger I can tell you a bow shackle is recommended if you have 2 chains coming off it at an angle i.e. 2 chains, 1 fixed anchor point. A dee shackle is used for a straight pull i.e. 1 chain 1 fixed point. So long as either type is rated you're good to go.
One thing I have noticed is some of the shackles I have seen from China have a different rating system. Don't trust them. If you only use rated shackles from a reputable supplier you can't go wrong.
Nobles,Robinson, bullivants
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Nothing posted on the vicroads site yet. They only state the shackles need to be rated at 1.5 times gvm of trailer. Not saying you're wrong mr bird, nor questioning your sources but if what you're saying is true, well, that just reinforces my already cemented thoughts that vicroads are a bunch of (insert expletive here) who make some rediculous laws through knee jerk thinking without being encumbered by facts or common sense.
Used to drive trucks a while ago. Maybe oughta bow out of a vicroads discussion.
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Oh my Gawd this will just not die will it!!!!
There is absolutely no regulation on rated shackles anywhere in Australia what so ever, except for towing trailers of plus 3.5 ton!!!
The Queensland often quoted information, Vic roads also is a Towing GUIDE and states it in the title and the first paragraph. NOT LEGISLATION or any part of ADR compliance.
It is pretty good advice as a document only.
The load rating is all about lifting loads and is totally irrelevant when talking about shock loads, this information has been totally been used in the wrong context by those who drafted the towing guide, however in the absence of any other guides is a useful statement to have a quality fastener securing your chains nothing more.
Cheers Mike :cheers:
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The funny thing about all this is that if a rated Bow Shackle fails than the cheap unrated commercial grade Gal chain has no hope of working. If the authorities were fair dinkum they would specify high tensile chain to match to the rated shackle.
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Where's that picture I saw a couple of weeks ago, with the chain zip-tied to the vehicle?
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The funny thing about all this is that if a rated Bow Shackle fails than the cheap unrated commercial grade Gal chain has no hope of working. If the authorities were fair dinkum they would specify high tensile chain to match to the rated shackle.
agree
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If the authorities were fair dinkum they would specify high tensile chain to match to the rated shackle.
Like this?
All pig trailers with rigid drawbars (with or without breakaway brakes—but excluding converter dollies) and, any other trailer without breakaway brakes, must be fitted with safety chains that are marked in accordance with the relevant Australian Standard and (or cables as applicable) complying with the following:
trailers that do not exceed 2.5 tonnes ATM must have at least one safety chain complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.4-2004 ‘Caravan and light trailer towing components —Part 4: Safety chains up to 3500kg capacity’, or be a safety cable with a certified load capacity of the same;
trailers over 2.5 tonnes and not exceed 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains of designation of 3500 kg complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.42004
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Oh my Gawd this will just not die will it!!!!
There is absolutely no regulation on rated shackles anywhere in Australia what so ever, except for towing trailers of plus 3.5 ton!!!
The Queensland often quoted information, Vic roads also is a Towing GUIDE and states it in the title and the first paragraph. NOT LEGISLATION or any part of ADR compliance.
It is pretty good advice as a document only.
The load rating is all about lifting loads and is totally irrelevant when talking about shock loads, this information has been totally been used in the wrong context by those who drafted the towing guide, however in the absence of any other guides is a useful statement to have a quality fastener securing your chains nothing more.
Cheers Mike :cheers:
x 2