MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: wakychapmans on January 11, 2016, 02:28:05 PM
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Hey all:
We drove the 105 series Cruiser back from Melb last weekend towing the "half an 80 series camper".
We took the inland run to be different and to test out the trailer and freecamp on Saturday night at Narrandera since we had puppy with us. (more on the trailer in a different thread)
The cruiser runs the regular 1HZ (non-turbo) engine and while it was was fine on the flatter roads, holding 80-90 easy enough, it really struggled on rolling terrain or god forbid hills where we were dropping back to 2nd (and even 1st coming up Victoria Pass in the Blue Mountains)
On top of that... the air con was constantly shutting itself off whenever the temp moved a poofteenth past half way. (and this was any-time the road pointed itself even slightly "up") Not so much fun in 35 degrees plus...
The engine has around 450,000 klm on it and does blow a very little bit of black smoke at start up (not much though). I'm guessing that the injectors need a clean.
Here's the thing, the truck is solid, reliable and I like it. (except for the above mentioned lack of power and air con' issues)
It's got a lot invested in it. Bullbar, rear spare bar, 160L 2nd tank, dual air lockers, roof rack, roller drawers. It's taken years to fit it out to the level it's at now and like everyone... money is tight.
So here's the question...
Do I invest more in the 105 Cruiser to improve the power and better control the temperature? Thinking things like turbo, exhaust, heavy duty radiator and so on. To build upon the solid touring base we've constructed...
Or do I cut my losses and sell the ole' girl off and move to something newer?
and if so... what?
the strategy here is for a long term off-road capable tourer that can cope with weekends and weeks away plus the bigger trips like the Simpson, the Canning, Cape York and places like that. And all while towing a camper. (for now... the converted 80 series, in the future... a Breakaway or maybe a used Tvan... who knows)
thanks in advance for your input.
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If your happy with what you have - its going to be $10-15,000 to do the engine/turbo etc...
its a 50/50 decision... remembering all the accessories you have on there now are going to cost a bomb to buy again for a new 4b..
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quick break down on prices
dts turbo kit $6500 fitted and tuned
intercooler $1000 (if needed)
exhaust $1500 (if needed)
injectors $1500 (if needed)
pump $2500 (if needed)
radiator $500 (if needed)
bearings $500 (if needed)
Birds right on the money
you know if you sell it the buyer will proberbly do this straight up
firstly i would get the compression tested
:cheers:
Adam
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A engine (1HZ) with nearly half a million on it I wouldn't be touching it. Specially with a turbo.
Love it for what it is. Or sale and upgrade.
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MuruCycles My first point is that you need to stand back and take stock of what you currently have. First up, you have a 105 LandCruiser, by that it is the last of the solid axles (and IMO, the last of the real LandCruisers). Everything after that has independent suspension. While being a bit more comfortabe, maybe tracking a little bit better, comes with a much more complicated suspension with more bits to maintain, (CV, CV boots, ball joints and the need for wheel alignment etc).
Now look at the humble HZ.. A nuts and bolts engine which gives years of faithful service, (you just said it has done 450000 Km, what better example do you need??).. So what is your alternative?? .. A V8 diesel, vast amount of additional associated electronics..A much more expensive maintenance schedule, (just ring a Toyota dealer and get a quote for an injector change.. (no rebuilding injectors), and while your at it, get a quote for replacing the starter motor, (that will be a surprise :-[)...
You say that you have made additions and altered your truck to suit your needs.. Do you want to start that exercise all over again??
So, basically, you currently have a truck that suits your needs, just a bit tired in the power department, as one would expect at 450K..
Not only look at the change over cost, but also included all the additional accessory costs as well as probably nothing would fit anyway... You can do a lot of rebuilding and modifications to suit for a hell of a lot less..
Alternatively, what else would you replace it with.. Nissan Patrol??. Unless Nissan goes with the Cummins engines, I don't believe that the marque will be around in it's present form for much longer.. And again, you are looking at common rail type of engines.. High tech, not user friendly, expensive maintenance..
So, in conclusion, IMO you have the best Toyota made, every thing after that has hairs attached to it in some way.. So, rebuild your tired HZ, ( they are relatively cheap to rebuild, (don't forget a new oil pump)), update the cooling system, fit a correct turbo system, don't over boost the engine and your good for another 450k.. The turbo with a good intercooler will make so much difference you'll think your driving a later model..
Or alternatively, look at the option of fitting the later factory turbo diesel engine.. I believe a drive in drive out figure is about $12k
Either way, if your near Brisbane, I can give you contact details for a workshop that will do the whole job, drive in drive out..
We had the same decision issues when we wanted to build a truck just to tow the camper, primarily out west.. The KISS principle tends to rule if your stuck a couple of hundred kilometers in the middle of no where.. In our case, instead of using our Jeep, we totally rebuilt an old Hilux for the job. Probably cost up to around $30k. Runs on nothing, and can be fixed with a twitch of fence wire, (so to speak :D)..
Just my two bobs worth..
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If your decision is to keep the cruiser, don't waste money putting a turbo on the 1HZ. Stick in a 1HD-FTE and enjoy the power a reliability.
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I recently got rid of my turbo'd and intercooled, 3" exhaust 1HZ 105 series, and don't regret the decision. Whilst i do prefer the ride my old coils alround Cruiser had over it's current replacement 2015 dual cab 79 series, the rest of the vehicle i don't miss one little bit. Save your money and put it towards a new vehicle, you won't regret the decision. I considered putting a 1HDFTE in it, but the prices they want for those motors now are stupid considering the klms that are on them. Yes the motors are good for X amount of klms, and 200K is "just run in" as many will tell you, but if i'm shelling out $20K for someone to do an engine transplant on a vehicle for me (obviously cheaper if you do it yourself), i want that engine to have alot less then those klms on it and an unknown service history. You'd be better off looking around for a Cruiser someone else has already done that job on, there's been a few come up for sale of late as those owners move on to something like a 200 series
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but if i'm shelling out $20K for someone to do an engine transplant on a vehicle for me (obviously cheaper if you do it yourself), i want that engine to have alot less then those klms on it
get the Chev V8 Turbo fitted for that money!
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What about buying a turbo version of your cruiser, swap all the crap to it then sell old faithful?
Much cheaper than a different vehicle, you get a newer/lower km model and the hills just disappear....
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quick break down on prices
dts turbo kit $6500 fitted and tuned
intercooler $1000 (if needed)
exhaust $1500 (if needed)
injectors $1500 (if needed)
pump $2500 (if needed)
radiator $500 (if needed)
bearings $500 (if needed)
Birds right on the money
you know if you sell it the buyer will proberbly do this straight up
firstly i would get the compression tested
:cheers:
Adam
and you'd probably want an engine rebuild at the same time with better pistons (if available) for the turbo heat etc.
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Hi MuruCycles, Sounds like a great set up truck, I maybe wrong but did your 4wd. did it originally have R12 gas in its air conditioner then it was changed to the new 13A gas, if so I was told they need a new airconditoning radiator and cleaner as the old ones make your 4wd get hot with the new type gas in them, I have an old 1990 80 series 1HZ diesel with 630,000 on it and it does the same, I can hook up to my 5m tinny that 1,45t loaded and have the truck loaded and head off on holiday and on a hot day it runs great, but put the air con on and it gets hot,This is what my local air con bloke told me to do and it costs around 550 to 600 to replace thoughs two things and it should right, I did not do it incase he was wrong but may one day, About your 105 I feel your pain on the power thing, But I have no answers for you, as I am happy with my old girl, she is supper reliable and on the big trips towing my tinny I do not use the air con. Craig
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Go a 200 series cruiser and you will never look back
GG
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In regards to heat. B4 my engine swap i had a ford thermo fan brought from the wrecks bolted on just in front of my radiator. Then hard wired straight to the air con. When it go turned on so did the thermo fan. Definitely helped.
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If your happy with what you have - its going to be $10-15,000 to do the engine/turbo etc...
its a 50/50 decision... remembering all the accessories you have on there now are going to cost a bomb to buy again for a new 4b..
Really is a 50/50 decision.
The 105S is without a doubt one of the last tough Cruzas. Everyone always brings up the 80S but the 105 is tougher, just as capable and more comfy.
I was happy with the 1Hz until I hooked up the CT and I know exactly what you are going through.
I have the 105 also, turned about 18 months now I think. I did all the sums and for me having a nice modded 105 that I was very happy with, I turboed it, exhaust and dyno. Cost me nearly $6k but I am very happy with my decision.
I guess the difference is my Cruza had less than 200k on it as opposed to 450k like yours.
I would love a 76S or 200S but couldn't justify the $$$.
Tuff choices mate, I would love to say turbo it but really I think a rebuild on the 1HZ would be needed first, that is a lot of coin and you would really want to keep it for at least another 10 years to justify that sort of money.
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Maybe do a compression test before making any decisions?
What's the rest of the car like?? Good body and interior?
Drive-line.....clutch, g'box and diff OK?
:cheers:
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I find it funny people are trying to compare cars 3 times the price. He did say money is tight.
If you compare it to similar priced cars you will find its one of the best out there. Especially for reliabilty in the outback.
A mate of mine has a turboed 105 with a safari turbo kit(i think) with low boost. I would say its almost as good as my 08 diesel hilux for poweron the road and it is better on the beach in the soft stuff. As for fuel usage its on par with mine offroad.
Also a new radiator wouldnt hurt on a vehicle with those klms. Keep it and keep chipping away at it when you can afford too. I dont think you will gain much on a new vehicle without spending big dollars.
Do a compression check and go from there
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$15K to $20K to fully rebuild and turbo the original oil burner.
Or for around $10K you could probably drop an LS1 V8 out of a mid 00's Commondoor.
Then you could overtake in 5th up hills while towing...
The $5K - $10K saving would buy a fair bit of petrol?
Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk
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I find it funny people are trying to compare cars 3 times the price. He did say money is tight.
I said buy a new car, didn't say it had to be what i got. His 105 is worth nothing like they used to be these days, the arse dropped out of the price of them atleast a year ago. I fail to see the point in chucking 10K at his vehicle, when that's all it's really worth now. At 400K on the dial i'd be doing work on the motor before i added a turbo to it for a start,and after having gone through all that add a turbo to that motor process myself, i wished i'd just gotten rid of the motor and chucked a 1HDFTE in it when they were reasonably price with actual low klms on them to start with. Nowadays those same motors are twice the price with 3 or 4 times more kilometers on them, so getting someone to do the exchange now isn't a viable (money wise) option IMHO.
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Fair call.
Maybe what sort budget hes got for a new vehicle might help.
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I have bought two 100s V8 Cruzas on behalf of friends in the last two months as they were working O/S.
Both of them were under $23k, sub 200k kms, lifted, lockas all round, roof racks, steel twin wheel carriers and quite a few other extras like winch, long range fuel tanks, solar etc.
100S IFS is a tough, proven and capable 4B. As Rumpig said, the arse has fallen out of the 100'and 105S Cruzas and if you shop around there are some bargains around. Yes the V8 does chew a bit more fuel but not a lot and they have plenty of power.
Both Mates were interested in the diesel but couldn't afford one with the 1HDFTE. I talked them both in to the V8 petrol. Lots of guys on the forum have them and they will testify that these are a great 4B's.
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I have bought two 100s V8 Cruzas on behalf of friends in the last two months as they were working O/S.
Don't tell me they were working on Oil Rigs!
Cheers!
Andrew
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Don't tell me they were working on Oil Rigs!
Cheers!
Andrew
Haha. :cheers:
Nah.. 1 was in PNG and the other on a ship.
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You say money is tight - what is your budget?
If its <10k, then... your just going to struggle up hills.
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You may be able to buy another 105, pretty stock, with history, less k's, but has turbo fitted.
Swap your add on's over, then sell your old girl? Money may be OK if you find one at right $$$.
I'd say if you don't have the 100 grand in the back of the sox drawer, go with some up grades to yours.
I just did my pump and injectors, the pump was in a bad state, injectors had wrong nozzels. I also added the diaphragm to the pump to control fuel delivery which makes the car run a lot smoother and more economical with the turbo, this cost me just over $3,000 with me doing the remove and install back in the car. Typicaly it may cost $5 - 600 for someone to do that.
I'd recomend you do a compression test, if good, go for it.
Check the viscus coupling on the fan, do the add oil trick so it engauges sooner at less temps. That should help with the over temp. Bigger radiator is a good idea to.
Have you fixed the pipe work between snorkle and airbox, that helps with torque.
I'm gonna nick the idea about the thermo fan on A/C for mine.
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Rip your IHZ out and throw a TOYOTA LANDCRUISER ENGINE DIESEL, 4.2, 1HDFT, TURBO, 78 SERIES, this is a great way to power up any Toyota and not expansive.
2 mins on Ebay and I found this , full engine conversation for only $11,000.00 , look around and you may find something cheaper. But a far better option than rebuilding and turboing your current engine.
MODEL: LANDCRUISER 2005
YEAR: 2005
STOCK NUMBER: 00018615
ITEM DESCRIPTION: TOYOTA LANDCRUISER ENGINE DIESEL, 4.2, 1HDFT, TURBO, 78 SERIES, 11/99-12/06 99 0
COMMENT: 1HD-FTE COMPLETE CONVERSION W/ LOOMS, COMPUTERS AND ALL THE ANCILLARIES DOES NOT INCLUDE GEARBOX
VIN: JTELC73J206002844
INTERCHANGE INFORMATION
Also fits the following models:
LANDCRUISER 1999 - 2006 DIESEL, 4.2, 1HDFT, TURBO, 78 SERIES, 11/99-12/06
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOYOTA-LANDCRUISER-ENGINE-TURBO-DIESEL-4-2-1HD-FTE-24V-COMPLETE-CONVERSION-KIT-/331720736712?hash=item4d3c18bfc8:g:xGAAAOSwp5JWW7eA (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOYOTA-LANDCRUISER-ENGINE-TURBO-DIESEL-4-2-1HD-FTE-24V-COMPLETE-CONVERSION-KIT-/331720736712?hash=item4d3c18bfc8:g:xGAAAOSwp5JWW7eA)
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I’m also in the same boat with my 105 cruiser with 187 000 on the clock. Without the camper trailer on it’s okay to drive and if anything the lack of power has saved me from a few speeding tickets. But once I add the camper trailer I’m constantly working the gears which does get annoying.
While driving to my destination can be annoying, but once I’m towing the camper offroad on soft steep sandy tracks the whole package seems to come into its element and puts a smile back on my face especially passing bogged 4WD’s.
As previously mentioned throwing large amounts of money at these cars are a waste of time because sure you can rebuild the motor, but if the motor has 450 000kms on the clock, then so does your gearbox, diffs, driveline and every other part that moves in the car. So at what point do you stop?
In saying that I recently spent $4K on a gearbox rebuilt. But like most we aren't in a situation where we just can't afford a big loan to upgrade my cruiser. Plus over the past 7 years I've only really spent on the normal ongoing service items and we plan on keeping it for at least another 5+ years.
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first up I want to thank every single person that took the time to add their thoughts, and feedback and more importantly... personal experiences.
if that Powerball ticket I bought today turns out for me... then I'm ordering a nice 70 series dual cab (with many upgrades) and a new Tvan.
But somehow I doubt that's going to happen...
The general feedback seems to be:
a) check the state of the current engine with a compression test. That will determine whether it's viable to throw (small amounts) of money at the current car.
b) opinion seems to be split on turboing the current motor. Though the majority seem to be suggesting an engine swap to a Toyota factory turbo. But only if low mileage.
c) everyone is asking my budget... in all honesty... I don't know.
d) If the 105 is worth keeping, then I'm comfortable to throw 6k or thereabouts at it. any more will take a concerted savings effort.
e) if we're looking to trade it in... then I'm sure that the bank will help me out for a used 4wd around the 30-35k mark. If we were considering a trade in... then we're leaning towards crew cab utes with a canopy. Preference would be (in order) Isuzu, Hilux, Navara, Colorado. (maybe a Mazda, but geez... they're butt ugly)
But as many have mentioned... then we're starting the slow upgrade game again. And I'm really attached to my current 270L fuel capacity... hahahahahahaha
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a) check the state of the current engine with a compression test. That will determine whether it's viable to throw (small amounts) of money at the current car.
I would still say even with a compression test, 450,000klms your asking for troubles. When I spoke with my diesel bloke about upgrading my current aftermarket Garrett to a bigger one, he suggest not to at 300,000klms
c) everyone is asking my budget... in all honesty... I don't know.
that's the issue... don't stress, we all have this issue, and many have been in your shoes.. .
(maybe a Mazda, but geez... they're butt ugly)
I think they all looks the same!
I think your not going to get out of doing anything to your current gig for under 15k to do it properly.
How much do you think you could sell your current gig for... add $15k to that - 35k would get you a brand new Mitz Challenger on run out someone mentioned other day.
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Regardless what you do it will cost you, the question is how much.
I went through the same thing with my 1991 80 series carby petrol 12 months ago. My 80 drives like your 105 except I use 1/3 more fuel than any diesel.
LS conversion was quoted at $20K plus.
HDFT recond engine, the cheapest I found was $12k not including install.
I already have F & R air lockers, rear draws, wheel carrier, bull bar etc.
I spent $6k on my 3F to rebuild and a few upgrades which brought the old girl close to 400NM but I still lag in the HP department 135HP.
I still struggle on steep hills with the Jayco on the back but not as much as b4, but my old girl will last me another 10 years plus and she will go anywhere 4wding.
The most important thing for me was reliabilityfirst and foremost, availability of parts and cost of parts which are dirt cheap, as we do remote trips and that's what I got. Couldn't be more happier.
Yep, my mates have $50k plus 4wds but they are also in heavy debt and can't afford many trips away ;D
The cash I didn't spend for a diesel or LS conversion is being spent on extra holidays ;D
If you want a fast car buy an early xr8 or a ss.
:cheers:
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As others have said at 450,000 Kim's just move or keep it the way it is. My folks had a 60 with 450,000 plus on it. Reliable as but you were always fixing little things or leaks.
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As previously mentioned throwing large amounts of money at these cars are a waste of time because sure you can rebuild the motor, but if the motor has 450 000kms on the clock, then so does your gearbox, diffs, driveline and every other part that moves in the car. So at what point do you stop?
Everyone is going to have a different opinion, but the above is pretty well my thoughts too. Plenty of people only seem to focus on the engine condition without considering or acknowledging the rest of the car is aging and wearing out as well. You throw money at one area of the car, only to then find something else that needs replacing / rebuilding if you want to keep the vehicle reliable and on par with the new power plant. The justification then to invest more time and money into the car.... is because you've invested a heap of time and money in it already.... Just becomes somewhat of a downward spiral / pit and personally I think the key is to know when to let go and part ways with a vehicle before it becomes a money pit - which is where you are now it seems.
I've done a couple of comprehensive rebuilds and vehicle restorations in my time and although the 'experience' was challenging and fun, in hindsight none of them worked out to be economically viable - more specifically for the money I ended up spending on an old car I could have brought something much newer and more comfortable or, spent less and just brought something already restored by someone else. Everything is a compromise, but an old car will always be an old car unless you plan to rebuild or replace pretty much everything in one go.
Best of luck.
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everyone has been immensely helpful and there is plenty, clearly to consider.
for example...
http://www.carsales.com.au/bncis/details/Isuzu-D-Max-2015/OAG-AD-10484441/?Cr=4 (http://www.carsales.com.au/bncis/details/Isuzu-D-Max-2015/OAG-AD-10484441/?Cr=4)
not to mention Colorados by Izuzu from mid 20k with under 100,000k on the clock
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My fun started when my 2000 model petrol cruiser blew the engine at only 139000 on the clock. Total cost to put in recon motor and new air con system was around $11,000.
What to do. Ended up getting it done as it was set up already as a touring vehicle. Since June 2013 I have only done 30,000 on the recon motor but it's been great. It loves drinking petrol but it's reliable and does the job.
Mark
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everyone has been immensely helpful and there is plenty, clearly to consider.
for example...
http://www.carsales.com.au/bncis/details/Isuzu-D-Max-2015/OAG-AD-10484441/?Cr=4 (http://www.carsales.com.au/bncis/details/Isuzu-D-Max-2015/OAG-AD-10484441/?Cr=4)
not to mention Colorados by Izuzu from mid 20k with under 100,000k on the clock
I think you've answered your own questions..
but how much would you get privately selling your current unit?
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I think you've answered your own questions..
but how much would you get privately selling your current unit?
based on a very rough trolling of Car Sales...
I'm guessing around 15-20k
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so then I see this
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Toyota-Landcruiser-2009/OAG-AD-12284014/?Cr=1 (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Toyota-Landcruiser-2009/OAG-AD-12284014/?Cr=1)
so now a possible thing to consider is a used 200 series at (around) $46k v's a brand new Isuzu at $37k
(all assuming that we can either sell the 105 privately for a reasonable price... or get a decent trade-in price that doesn't hurt from lack of lube...)
The lure of the 200 series is a) it's a Toyota and b) some of my current bits can swap over. (drawers, spotlights and maybe tyres) plus c) I can get a long range tank of similar capacity to my current set-up.
The lure of the Isuzu is it's 10K cheaper for a brand new vehicle.
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so then I see this
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Toyota-Landcruiser-2009/OAG-AD-12284014/?Cr=1 (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Toyota-Landcruiser-2009/OAG-AD-12284014/?Cr=1)
so now a possible thing to consider is a used 200 series at (around) $46k v's a brand new Isuzu at $37k
(all assuming that we can either sell the 105 privately for a reasonable price... or get a decent trade-in price that doesn't hurt from lack of lube...)
The lure of the 200 series is a) it's a Toyota and b) some of my current bits can swap over. (drawers, spotlights and maybe tyres) plus c) I can get a long range tank of similar capacity to my current set-up.
The lure of the Isuzu is it's 10K cheaper for a brand new vehicle.
10k is a lot of accessories... with warranty... and you know how its been treated... again I'd go look at the run out deals on the Challenger.
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10k is a lot of accessories... with warranty... and you know how its been treated... again I'd go look at the run out deals on the Challenger.
but... it's a Mitsi'
I couldn't bring myself to do it... next thing you'll be suggesting a Jeep.
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Mitsubishi Triton/ Challenger, cheap for a reason. You get what you pay for. The dual cab utes will never be as good as a Landcruiser.
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Hey all:
We drove the 105 series Cruiser back from Melb last weekend towing the "half an 80 series camper".
We took the inland run to be different and to test out the trailer and freecamp on Saturday night at Narrandera since we had puppy with us. (more on the trailer in a different thread)
Hi! By any chance were you in Moama over the weekend? Driving down to Moama beach I saw a cruiser towing a red rear half of a cruiser, thought it looked amazing :D
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Well, I put my thoughts in earlier.. $12000 would go a long way to a HZ rebuild plus turbo.. About $1500 to rebuild a R151..
So then, include an exhaust system.. A good clutch pack with machined flywheel.. 4 core radiator and a water to air intercooler.. Then add a part time drive kit for the transfer with a change of bearings and chain at the same time.. That would do it..
Thing to ask yourself.. If you were to buy a new CRD of any make could you expect it to turn 450000 k's without putting a spanner on it??
Second hand one would only make that question iffier..
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My Troopy I sold a year ago had 455000 on it at the time, had been turboed most of its life, and was going strong with good compression still.
These engines will last, if they have been looked after, now you know what yours has been through, so if compression and oil pressures are good, I recon you'd be better off spending the coin on the 105 then spending a lot more on the ute.
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Hi! By any chance were you in Moama over the weekend? Driving down to Moama beach I saw a cruiser towing a red rear half of a cruiser, thought it looked amazing :D
that was us. Came through there on Saturday arvo'.