MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: fishfinder on August 11, 2015, 06:59:59 AM
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I have just been told by my job search provider "I MUST WORK FOR THE DOLE"!! What I have to do is travel 150km / fortnight work 30 hours / fortnight in a vintage train yard ( heaps of future employment prospects in fixing thomas the tank ) for if I am lucky $60.00/ fortnight. My vehicle gets about 13 - 14 ltr / 100km fuel is about $1.48 / ltr, do the sums was I a fool removing my self off the system and now no longer get any support from government ? Just wondering if there is any one else out thee that is forced to do the same ?
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Mate,
Probably a typo but 150k per fortnight isn't much....... On a positive note, I have seen several WFD's gain part time & full time employment from this.
Regards
Hem
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At the risk of starting an argument, personally I think work for the dole schemes are mostly a crock of bull dust. Several studies have shown they don't work or at least have no significant effect on back to work rates.
But what they do provide is politicians a platform to crow about how they are doing something, without actually doing anything.
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At the risk of starting an argument, personally I think work for the dole schemes are mostly a crock of bull dust. Several studies have shown they don't work or at least have no significant effect on back to work rates.
But what they do provide is politicians a platform to crow about how they are doing something, without actually doing anything.
Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive
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Dont know about the work for dole good or bad, but do know the dole office found the brother a job once, which was kind of them. Only thing was the dole was roughly $50 a week more than the job paying .
So effectivly FF they are paying little more than the cost of your fuel round trip for one day and getting an extra days travel + 15 hours of labour for FREE out of you per week out of your own families pocket ..
Geee how silly you are not to jump at that deal, cant you see all those lost opprtunities of gainfull employment you will lose by not doing this .. :D
Dont feel isolated FF, a long time ago I spent 6 hours being shoved from one waiting line to another at the dole office after being made redundent only to be told I wasnt eligable to get the dole for 3 months. told them to jam it where the sun dont shine and 5 weeks later was working >>>>>> forwards 22 years and I'm still in that job ..
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I too agree it is a bs to majority of people. In close to now 12 months I have been un-employed due to company downsizing, I have actively searched for work the entire time ( approx 4-5 hrs / day searching ). I have also met all my appointments with centerlink and the job search provider + dropping into the job search center twice a week, my choice, trying to find work. So far not once has the job search provider given me any lead for a job, not once !! I receive a letter in late May stating that I am appointed a new provider and that I will hear from them before 1st July. On 3rd July I phoned the Government department asking who my provider is, and where is the letter, they said just wait I will receive it soon. Early August I receive a letter stating my new service provider and appointment made for the 6th. Make the appointment only to find out that all the staff are the same plus a hand full more ??? and an extra 30 + km travel. Was told there and then that I have to start work on the 10th, told to go shopping for work clothes come back with quote and they may give me an order number, subject to approval.
My disapproval to this is what has the job search provider done for me ????? this work for the dole thing is just an excuse to justify their position as I have not seen them actively do anything prior, well not for me. I did me sums wrong from the first post I receive on average $38.30 / fortnight and travel will cost me about $24.00, I don't know, but receiving approx $15.00 for 30 hrs work to me is exploitation, and not only that what job aspects will I get in tinkering around with steam trains ???
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Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive
It makes me wild being tared with the same brush as the minority of long term tax thieves, I have paid tax for 35+ years and prior to this stint I have not been un-employed for a total of 4 weeks in those 35 years, and as stated I actively search for work, but I see no future at all removing me from actively searching for 20+ hours / fortnight working with a bunch of retired volunteers playing with steam trains.
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Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive
What he said.
I've got mates that have played the system for 30+ years... never having worked a day in their lives that Centerlink know about.. many 1000's of days of cash work. Been sent on training courses, meetings, interviews, been kicked off and back on, theres been more episodes of today affair on people scamming the system than repeats of MASH, nothing will change.
Many people see it as a right to be paid for staying home smoking winny blues, smoking dope, drinking piss, and not having enough $ to pay rent/feed their 12 kids while they are still <25yrs old. Look at all the surfers up Byron Bay, look at 99% of the population of Nimbin and Tilba and surronds to name a few
Not saying the OP is any of these, he sounds like hes doing all he can 5-6 hours a day searching would be soul destroying for many people - specially with no leads.
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Think just about everyone here knows someone that has made a career out of social security but I do feel for you people genuinely struggling to find work. The job market is crap and has been for a long time. Must employers these days are looking for an 18 yr old with a uni degree and 10 yrs experience. I tend to think WFD is only giving someone cheap labour and not really helping the system at all. If someone wants to bleed the system they will. Regardless of what we do. All previous attempts to thwart them only hurts the genuine people in need. If someone that really wants a job and has to spend money to travel for their WFD job, it doesn't leave them anything left after paying rent/mortgage, bills, food etc, to get to a real job interview when it comes up. And if you live out of town, well then you're in even deeper do do.
Good luck you guys in your search. I hope you all find work soon. I feel for ya man.
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Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive
I'd rather my tax dollars were spend on something that was effective and produced proven outcomes, rather than wasted on something that didn't work. A University of Melbourne study into the pilot phase of work for the dole found participants in the program were no more likely to move off welfare payments in the 12 months than a comparable group of payment recipients who did not participate in the program. But the government is happy to spend $1billion on it?
Work for the dole does not increase long term availability of jobs and doesn't provide skill development. How is FishFinder going to skill up to a meaningful job by fixing steam trains?
That same study found participation in work for the dole had " quite large significant adverse effects of participation” in the program. It suggested participation had a “chilling” effect on job search activity, allowing participants to reduce their efforts to find long-term work. The report also said participation in work for the dole was “found to have a significant negative effect on exit from payments, and to increase time on payments”. The same applies to many international studies - The majority of those studies find zero or negative effects on labour market outcomes for participants.
Again what's the point in throwing our tax money into a system that does sweet FA in helping people get off the dole, and in fact serves to keep them on payments longer?
Rather the government should be investing time and money into creating economic growth, and changing the focus on the program to targeting the needs of the local unemployed, and at the end of it get some kind of formal qualifications.
Fishfinder - I feel very sorry for you
What he said.
I've got mates that have played the system for 30+ years... never having worked a day in their lives that Centerlink know about.. many 1000's of days of cash work. Been sent on training courses, meetings, interviews, been kicked off and back on, theres been more episodes of today affair on people scamming the system than repeats of MASH, nothing will change.
Many people see it as a right to be paid for staying home smoking winny blues, smoking dope, drinking piss, and not having enough $ to pay rent/feed their 12 kids while they are still <25yrs old. Look at all the surfers up Byron Bay, look at 99% of the population of Nimbin and Tilba and surronds to name a few
Not saying the OP is any of these, he sounds like hes doing all he can 5-6 hours a day searching would be soul destroying for many people - specially with no leads.
Bird there are always scammers in any system, but the reality is they are a very small minority. The figures for June have the longterm unemployed (out of work for more than 12months) as sitting at 1.5%, up from 0.6% in 2008. The number of people unemployed for two years or more reached 92,500 in May this year. That's the highest level in the 15 years of publishing data. Those figures aren't just because its easy to get a gubbermint handout. The economy is tanking & I'd be very surprised if there isn't a recession in the next 2-3 years. Australia has had 20 years of growth but I think the party is coming to an end.
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How is FishFinder going to skill up to a meaningful job by fixing steam trains?
that depends what skills he has and what he can improve or learn.
Having been involved in restoration of trains years ago at Thirlmere, there are numerous trades involved and learning anything to expand your chances to me is a good thing.. specially where he lives and the ever shrinking employment in that central coast region.
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Ha, personally I think it should be compulsory to work for the dole. But That's probably sour grapes on my part because in 45 years I have never been able to collect one cent from the bl@@dy dole. Even now I've been out of work for 10 months and don't qualify to receive any dole. And why? because during my working years in the RAAF I had to pay compulsory retirement fund payments and now I collect a measly pension I paid for myself, and for the rest of the time I saved and put some money into a couple of investment properties.. Even if I retire and am of pension age, I don't get any pension from the government. Got sucked it big time lol.
Moral of the story is, if you try to look after your later years financially, you get nothing from the government, but they try their darndest to take off you what you do have.
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I believe there may be still rules about the cost of attending the WFD activity not being more than 10% of the fortnightly Newstart Allowance.
It is worthwhile asking questions about how the decision was made by the counter staff and seeking a review of the decision if you are not happy. The Social Security system is a massive, tangled and ugly beast - I actually feel for the staff on the front lines who have to navigate the system as well as complex legislation and try to arrive at a decision that has a lot of grey and not much black and white to it.
That is why it is worthwhile being polite and asking for a "Review of Decision", so someone can then sit down and have time to assess your circumstances properly and arrive at the correct decision.
PM me if you need any help FishFinder.
Cheers, Paul
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Just get a job as a Politician and all your problems will be solved. They have an endless supply of our taxpayers money to play with and waste. Take Bronwyn Bishop for example, endless air flights to private functions with five star accomodation, all meals and helecopter rides thrown in. When you are done and retired you will also be given a massive anual income and free air travel untill you die.
Having been a hard working taxpayer all your life will go against you as there's not enough money left in the pot after filling the troughing politicians slush fund and the never having worked leaches at the other end of the scale.
I say this in jest, but if you think about it then it's not far from the truth. ;D ;D
By the way FF, good luck with your situation, i hope it all comes good for you very soon.
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Ha, personally I think it should be compulsory to work for the dole. But That's probably sour grapes on my part because in 45 years I have never been able to collect one cent from the bl@@dy dole. Even now I've been out of work for 10 months and don't qualify to receive any dole. And why? because during my working years in the RAAF I had to pay compulsory retirement fund payments and now I collect a measly pension I paid for myself, and for the rest of the time I saved and put some money into a couple of investment properties.. Even if I retire and am of pension age, I don't get any pension from the government. Got sucked it big time lol.
Moral of the story is, if you try to look after your later years financially, you get nothing from the government, but they try their darndest to take off you what you do have.
Troopy you should be proud that you have done well enough not to get the dole not disappointed that you don't get anything from the rorters! Keep your head up!
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Moral of the story is, if you try to look after your later years financially, you get nothing from the government you do have.
Time to see a good accountant and reverse that trend.
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that depends what skills he has and what he can improve or learn.
Having been involved in restoration of trains years ago at Thirlmere, there are numerous trades involved and learning anything to expand your chances to me is a good thing.. specially where he lives and the ever shrinking employment in that central coast region.
The Thomas the tank idea is also about (potential) workers being forced to engage with the workforce..
Even if that's just in the context of a pack of work for dole recipients; and their workplace...
Remember nearly all vocations involve interacting with other people... Many times its not so much about how much you know on the job - but its about how well you can be part of a team... What can you contribute to that workplace in terms of commitment; brawn; skills; etc...
Are you interested in expanding your circle of influence?; ...(to quote Steven Covey)
I think the tax payers are looking at some sort of ROI for the billions paid for the dole.... In an ideal world if the need for dole payments weren't there - those billions could be directed into heritage preservation; better roads; more hospitals; more comprehensive military defense systems; etc; etc...
Sure; on one hand the dole may represent the bare minimum a society "has" to pay - to avoid "blood on the streets" and civil anarchy because the work-less are out on the streets; and are starving - think Dickensian England: ... "please Sir; may I have some more" ..(food - because I am starving)...
But on the other hand - about two thirds of this wold lives without any; or a minimum of social security..... In these cultures and societies in most cases - the family and the extended family/community thrives...
There is a big price to pay for sure - to have this (Western world's) idea of the "right of the individuals - and its independence..." because there is little alternative..
Thomas the Tank is about interacting with some hopefully work-minded people... Sometimes on many occasions the alternative is about inward focus naval gazing...
It would be a better world; don't you think; if the kind with idle time on their hands in the middle of the workweek were keen and eager volunteers...
There is so much unfulfilled need out there - from volunteers to spend time with the lonely in aged care facilities; to picking up trash from creek banks and beaches; etc; etc...
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After approx 30 years with a major bank I was retrenched at 50.
No job search provider did any good whatsoever , one even wanted to teach me how to write a letter but realised I could probably already do that.
Bottom line,I now drive a taxi & earn less then half I did in my previous life but without the stress.
I was recently asked by a regular customer to take him home & he would fix me up on "pay day",of course he has not worked a day in his life.
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The Thomas the tank idea is also about (potential) workers being forced to engage with the workforce..
Even if that's just in the context of a pack of work for dole recipients; and their workplace...
Remember nearly all vocations involve interacting with other people... Many times its not so much about how much you know on the job - but its about how well you can be part of a team... What can you contribute to that workplace in terms of commitment; brawn; skills; etc...
Are you interested in expanding your circle of influence?; ...(to quote Steven Covey)
I think the tax payers are looking at some sort of ROI for the billions paid for the dole.... In an ideal world if the need for dole payments weren't there - those billions could be directed into heritage preservation; better roads; more hospitals; more comprehensive military defense systems; etc; etc...
Sure; on one hand the dole may represent the bare minimum a society "has" to pay - to avoid "blood on the streets" and civil anarchy because the work-less are out on the streets; and are starving - think Dickensian England: ... "please Sir; may I have some more" ..(food - because I am starving)...
But on the other hand - about two thirds of this wold lives without any; or a minimum of social security..... In these cultures and societies in most cases - the family and the extended family/community thrives...
There is a big price to pay for sure - to have this (Western world's) idea of the "right of the individuals - and its independence..." because there is little alternative..
Thomas the Tank is about interacting with some hopefully work-minded people... Sometimes on many occasions the alternative is about inward focus naval gazing...
It would be a better world; don't you think; if the kind with idle time on their hands in the middle of the workweek were keen and eager volunteers...
There is so much unfulfilled need out there - from volunteers to spend time with the lonely in aged care facilities; to picking up trash from creek banks and beaches; etc; etc...
Very well put.
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Very well put.
X2
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I'd like the Gov to release the "REAL" figures of how many full time / part time/ etc there are...
I believe that the Gov considers 1 hour a week as employed...
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I believe that the Gov considers 1 hour a week as employed...
Exactly.....and why they spend money on work for the dole......it reduces the unemployment rate ( artificially ) and makes them look good..
20 yrs ago, I did a similar thing to work for the dole, farmed out to the local council....worked my arse off for 5 mths, and got a casual position with them after the stint ran out....and by sheer coincidence left for greener pastures on the same day they offered me a permanent position. So, it can be beneficial if the job is a JOB, not weeding the side of the road for a company that gets subsidized by the govt to use free labour ...
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Exactly.....and why they spend money on work for the dole......it reduces the unemployment rate ( artificially ) and makes them look good..
20 yrs ago, I did a similar thing to work for the dole, farmed out to the local council....worked my arse off for 5 mths, and got a casual position with them after the stint ran out....and by sheer coincidence left for greener pastures on the same day they offered me a permanent position. So, it can be beneficial if the job is a JOB, not weeding the side of the road for a company that gets subsidized by the govt to use free labour ...
Exactly.
This systems been going on forever in one form or another in most socialist democracies Australia one of them.
If its done properly so its an Acutual Gateway into a REAL job its got to be good all round.
But politicians being politicians its more about bogus figures and point scoring.
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After approx 30 years with a major bank I was retrenched at 50.
No job search provider did any good whatsoever , one even wanted to teach me how to write a letter but realised I could probably already do that.
Bottom line,I now drive a taxi & earn less then half I did in my previous life but without the stress.
I was recently asked by a regular customer to take him home & he would fix me up on "pay day",of course he has not worked a day in his life.
And that gets up my nose more than anything else.. When they refer to getting "paid" it's not bl@@dy pay, you didn't earn it. you sat on ya bum and still got it. >:(
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You think thats bad...... A dad of the rellies (Yamba) told his boy on his (I think) 16th birthday. ... "com'on boy.... lets take ya down to the office ( aka Centrelink)..... to get ya ya SITDOWN MONEY)"..... true story. ...
Shake&Bake BB
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You think thats bad...... A dad of the rellies (Yamba) told his boy on his (I think) 16th birthday. ... "com'on boy.... lets take ya down to the office ( aka Centrelink)..... to get ya ya SITDOWN MONEY)"..... true story. ...
Shake&Bake BB
Shakes head.
I worked in several housholds doing DHS maintenence where several generations sat around smoking weed with tier pregnant kids and wouldnt even get off thier arses to answer the door when you knocked,just screamed at you to come in and no thanks when you were finnished.
Thankless bastards.
Fortionatly they were the minority though
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After 44 years of working my ass off and paying taxes I was layed off, thanks Abbott you moron, allowing companies to send everything to China and pay no import.
I went to centafink and was very coldly informed that I was not eligible for the dole, too many assets apparently.
I own my own home, I have two cars and a boat and all my trade tools.
A few grand in the bank and that's it
We pay taxes and these deadbeats have no intention of helping out.
I cant get assistance, pension benefits or even help finding work, what do these deadbeats do for a living?
Work for the dole.................what dole?
They tell me to come back in two years if I don't find work, two bloody years.
Should have got into politics when I was younger, bleed the system dry and still get more
Us workers are nothing but cash cows and fodder for the parasites.
Dracula does exist, he is the government, bleeding us all dry for their own benefit.
A POX ON THEM ALL
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I think work for the dole should be for anyone under 60 who is able to work and has been unemployed for 12 months the dole is there to help people get back on their feet it's not a career.
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I think work for the dole should be for anyone under 60 who is able to work and has been unemployed for 12 months the dole is there to help people get back on their feet it's not a career.
The only problem is how would you implement it for every dole recipient ?? Is there enough "jobs" for that amount of people ?
Lose the dole if you don't turn up for your "work" ?? Aahh, the dole bludgers have already got that sorted....a medical certificate saying they were sick..
I know if I was on the dole and I was made to work and others were getting out of it I would be pretty pi**ed..
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Listening to Alan Jones on the radio this morning 12/08/2015 ..... these are some of the statistics he was quoting (and before the switch on the pedantic-police is flicked to on.... I am going off a half awakening morning memory OK?)....
Australia's total welfare bill per annum. 1.56 BILLION dollars.... that's $5,000 every second. .... a couple with 2 kids earning $60K pa pays no tax (this is in terms of welfare kickbacks and incentives etc I think he meant).... Something like 6 out of every 10 Aussies are suckling on the teat of welfare cash for one reason or the other.....
If someone has the knowhow to be able to post up the transcript or audio link of Jones' diatribe this morning I would be very grateful
Shake&Bake BB
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The work for the dole program has nothing to do with training for future employment. It has been put in place to inconvenience dole recipients to the point where they are prepared to lower their job expectations to a point where they will take any job going. Some people on the dole are fair dinkum but many more set their sights way too high. Nothing wrong with stacking shelves and cleaning toilets until something better comes along.
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Listening to Alan Jones on the radio this morning 12/08/2015 ..... these are some of the statistics he was quoting (and before the switch on the pedantic-police is flicked to on.... I am going off a half awakening morning memory OK?)....
Australia's total welfare bill per annum. 1.56 BILLION dollars.... that's $5,000 every second. .... a couple with 2 kids earning $60K pa pays no tax (this is in terms of welfare kickbacks and incentives etc I think he meant).... Something like 6 out of every 10 Aussies are suckling on the teat of welfare cash for one reason or the other.....
If someone has the knowhow to be able to post up the transcript or audio link of Jones' diatribe this morning I would be very grateful
Shake&Bake BB
It shows you on your tax return these days where your taxes go and Centrelink is one massive blight on the tax payer
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Just looked on SEEK with keyword "work for the dole" and 6 pages of jobs as supervisor type roles came up. Looks like the new growth industry funded by tax payers making companies wealthy until funding is cut which then sends these businesses broke resulting in lawsuits for compensation, the lastest "pink batt" gravy train
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Nothing wrong with stacking shelves and cleaning toilets until something better comes along.
agreed - went from a $120k a year I.T. Consultant to installing roof insulation until it got the better of my arthritis, later was scrubbing toilets and cleaning offices (thanks to some friends in the industry who ha d a staff member leave just before I bumped into them) - have been back in the industry for over ten years now, as much out of luck as anything else - had some interesting experiences with the dreaded c-link, one was good but the next one closer to Sydney certainly wasn't. I actually scored a job and had been working for three months once before they realised they had lost my application for benefit and would be backpaying me for that entire period - lucky I didnt need any money to live on in that time! friends who worked there told me they would be doing everything they could to get out of paying me any 'entitlement', another friend was told to sell her car (that she had worked for all her life) as 'she didn't justify having a car worth that much'...
interestingly enough though centrelink seem to lose a lot of cases when they are taken before their own tribunal...
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. Nothing wrong with stacking shelves and cleaning toilets until something better comes along.
Nothing wrong at all, and if that's the job going, I'll do it until something better comes along.
I can't get the dole until December, but I certainly hope I get a job before then, because I don't want to go into the govt merry go round of robots..
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What these bastards aren't telling you is how much of this welfare money is going to senior public servants, politicians and other hangers on who get a ridiculous amount of cash for their "pensions".
every serving member, and there are thousands of the parasites, gets a tax free pension of hundreds of thousands of dollars for life, and when they die their families get it.
If every unemployed "Dole Bludger" was taken off the dole tomorrow, the welfare bill would still be two thirds of what it is now, remove the Joe Average pensioners who get precious little money and the bill would be half of what it is.
What we need is to have a standard pension, no special Indigenous, public servant, politician or illegal immigrant pensions, one pension for all.
That would bring the welfare bill to half of what it is, but there is little chance of that, politicians never even get their noses out and will fight to the death to suck us dry.
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I remember reading that it would be cheaper to give every australian $1million over a three year period to do what they want with i.e. buy a house, a business or piss it up against a wall. After that no more welfare..............I have seen the crap that goes on inside these welfare agancies and they could not give two sh!ts about meaningful job placement. They are only interested in lining their own pockets, which you can understand when something like this is handed to private enterprise......how wealthy is Teressa (Rudd) for instance.
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If every unemployed "Dole Bludger" was taken off the dole tomorrow, the welfare bill would still be two thirds of what it is now, remove the Joe Average pensioners who get precious little money and the bill would be half of what it is.
What we need is to have a standard pension, no special Indigenous, public servant, politician or illegal immigrant pensions, one pension for all.
That would bring the welfare bill to half of what it is, but there is little chance of that, politicians never even get their noses out and will fight to the death to suck us dry.
Really? Your maths sounds a bit off...
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I remember reading that it would be cheaper to give every australian $1million over a three year period
Just give me the same amount over a 20yr period and the welfare system will never hear of me again !! LOL
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The below graph shows where the largest part of our federal budget goes. There is no doubt we have become a welfare country and a large portion of the population know how to use it, or abuse it. We cannot go on like this and we all will pay for it one day. Our political system is currently unable to start the process as we have a hostile senate and opposition politicians know not to rock the boat, do nothing and become heroes to a large part of the population and get their votes. And don’t get me started on our media. >:( Kevin
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-12/budget-2015-sliced-diced-interactive/6460102#spending/breakdown/2016/social-security-and-welfare (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-12/budget-2015-sliced-diced-interactive/6460102#spending/breakdown/2016/social-security-and-welfare)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv3328%3B%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D375437%3B29233%3Bnu0mrj)
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Trouble is, what's the solution ?
The centrelink robots aren't programmed to tell the diff between people who do and don't want to work.
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The below graph shows where the largest part of our federal budget goes. There is no doubt we have become a welfare country and a large portion of the population know how to use it, or abuse it. We cannot go on like this and we all will pay for it one day. Our political system is currently unable to start the process as we have a hostile senate and opposition politicians know not to rock the boat, do nothing and become heroes to a large part of the population and get their votes. And don’t get me started on our media. >:( Kevin
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-12/budget-2015-sliced-diced-interactive/6460102#spending/breakdown/2016/social-security-and-welfare (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-12/budget-2015-sliced-diced-interactive/6460102#spending/breakdown/2016/social-security-and-welfare)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv3328%3B%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D375437%3B29233%3Bnu0mrj)
Yep. Unfortunately the government is trying to save money after we were spiralled into a huge debt, but the most important thing people want to debate is gay marriage. Not the fact that we pay a 100m a day in interest.
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I think work for the dole should be for anyone under 60 who is able to work and has been unemployed for 12 months the dole is there to help people get back on their feet it's not a career.
Prior from removing myself off the system I used all + more from the dole money looking for work. Now that they wanted me to use the majority of the little bit I get travelling to and from, what they call work and I see it as a retirement hobby I think it stinks. I feel it more resourceful self funding my job searching rather than sacrificing that time playing with trains amongst a bunch of keen retired people happy to use their time up with something they enjoy, in which I don't see it as a career at all.
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These, in my opinion, should not factor as "welfare"
Social Security should not be under the same umbrella.
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These, in my opinion, should not factor as "welfare"
Social Security should not be under the same umbrella.
Totally agree. Same with pensions. I know quite a few people (not friends with but because of my previous occupation) on a Disability Pension because of their drug addictions etc. Yet when the current government tried to introduce a bill into the senate to target this field it was shot down, along with negative media coverage. Same with a waiting period to get the dole. I still find it unbelievable that someone can leave school and get the dole immediately! But I suppose the poor things have had such a stressful time going to school and having to sit exams that they need a rest before they start looking for work. ;D Kevin
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apparently I'm not entitled to ANYTHING from govco, nothing, zip, nada.
4o+ years of paying taxes and working, saving and buying a house.
But with my "liquid assets" Boat, Cars, tools, my wife's antiques that she has collected over the years and a little in the bank for emergencies, I apparently go over the allowable limit and I have to cash in my "assets" and live off them.
That is until I'm destitute and then they will reconsider my circumstances.
The lesson in this is to never bother saving and buying things (unless you are a senior public servant or politician, its anything goes for them).
Just enjoy life to the full, travel, spend up big waste your money and then when you are all worn out from enjoying yopurself and flat broke, govco will support you, pay the rent and give, give , give.
Those who do the right thing are stuffed, we are there simply to support the bludgers and parasites and if trouble comes, get stuffed, use what you have saved and slaved for to support yourself or die.
May they all contract a suitably contagious fatal disease, spread it around among their mates, and die, hopefully quickly so that they waste less of my taxes.
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Those who do the right thing are stuffed, we are there simply to support the bludgers and parasites and if trouble comes, get stuffed, use what you have saved and slaved for to support yourself or die.
I had 9 yrs up at the last place....and because I saved my sickies ( instead of wasting them like others ), still had some holidays owing and didn't use my long service leave, I wait longer than someone who used all these things up ?
I've paid taxes for 40yrs, and while I don't think I deserve anything just because of that, I think I deserve it more than someone who has never had a job !!
And don't expect me to get down to their level ( by using all my savings ) before you hand out some cash..
And if I ever get to go on the dole, don't expect me to work for the dole ( for peanuts ) while others who know how to rort the system sit on their ar*e at home !
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But with my "liquid assets" Boat, Cars, tools, my wife's antiques that she has collected over the years and a little in the bank for emergencies, I apparently go over the allowable limit and I have to cash in my "assets" and live off them.
That is until I'm destitute and then they will reconsider my circumstances.
don't want to start a war here, but why is it so unreasonable for the government to ask you to sell some of your assets to fund a drop in income?
to take your situation further:
if i was a multi-millionaire, with millions of dollars worth of assets (land, property, etc) that i owned outright, but with no income (for the sake of this example), should i immediately be able to access welfare, even though i could sell some of my assets and live off the proceeds?
there has to be a line drawn, somewhere.
i was in the same situation going to university, where i couldn't receive assistance because my father owned a cane farm, so asset-rich, but income-poor. he had to sell some of his assets to provide for my education.
i'm sorry for the situation you are in, but i can see the government's point in trying to make people use their assets first, before asking the government for help.
and yes, i am fully aware that the welfare system is full of scumbags who don't deserve it... :)
again, please take this post in the manner it has been posted. i am just trying to offer something to the discussion, not to denigrate your circumstances.
edit: spelling and new sentence.
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apparently I'm not entitled to ANYTHING from govco, nothing, zip, nada.
4o+ years of paying taxes and working, saving and buying a house.
But with my "liquid assets" Boat, Cars, tools, my wife's antiques that she has collected over the years and a little in the bank for emergencies, I apparently go over the allowable limit and I have to cash in my "assets" and live off them.
That is until I'm destitute and then they will reconsider my circumstances.
The lesson in this is to never bother saving and buying things (unless you are a senior public servant or politician, its anything goes for them).
Just enjoy life to the full, travel, spend up big waste your money and then when you are all worn out from enjoying yopurself and flat broke, govco will support you, pay the rent and give, give , give.
Those who do the right thing are stuffed, we are there simply to support the bludgers and parasites and if trouble comes, get stuffed, use what you have saved and slaved for to support yourself or die.
Yes, I would say that this is one of the striking differences between our system over here - and say that of the USA....
It appears that everything over here has to get "dumbed DOWN" to the lowest common denominator...
Its the case that in Australia the meek; (read feeble and pathetic); will inherit the Earth; (and 'bankrupt' the rest of us in the process....).
Whereas in the USA it is the other way around... They have a get-up-and-go entrepreneurial system which is applauded and encouraged... (Think Donald Trump etc)....
Over here we have a term for the reality of what IS the opposite: The Tall Poppie Syndrome... grrr
On a macro level - former premier Peter Beatie's idea of the "Smart State" never took off either...
A very close friend of mine is coming up to retirement age... Has worked his guts out his whole life. Has built a property portfolio etc - and will probably be deemed by the Govt as a "self funded retiree"...
Its so sick - that as well as his big tax dollars being tipped into the welfare state throughout his working life - now as he gets older and vulnerable - he has to continue to fend for himself and rely upon himself... whilst elsewhere - the gravy train rolls on...
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Its so sick - that as well as his big tax dollars being tipped into the welfare state throughout his working life - now as he gets older and vulnerable - he has to continue to fend for himself and rely upon himself... whilst elsewhere - the gravy train rolls on...
I would welcome the chance to be self funded...and not have to go anywhere near the welfare system..
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I am recently retired (14 months now) and am lucky enough to be self funded. I will never get any govt help as I have too many assests. I do not view my taxes as a "bank account" that I pay into while working and draw on in retirement. I am quite happy that my taxes from 40 years have gone into govt coffers to provide health, welfare, emergency services and education.
In a welfare state those of us who earn a good wage contribute more to those not so lucky. Unfortunately there is always the minority who will rort the system. The idea of work for the dole has merit if we were able to target the right ones.
I do agree with Paceman that it is quite reasonable to be expected to sell some assests to help fund short term unemployment.
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I do agree with Paceman that it is quite reasonable to be expected to sell some assests to help fund short term unemployment.
The issue I have is that you have two identical people with identical opportunities, wages etc etc etc. One is the saver puts money away pays off their house etc. The other lives it up, has nothing, rents etc.
Why should the saver be penalised having to sell assets etc and the other is entitled to government benefits immediately when they both find themselves out of work on the same day?
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I believe that everyone deserves a pension, those who have worked deserve it because they bloody well paid for it.
Just a quick question to ant self funded out there.
I have just had a looooong talk with my financial adviser, If I pool all my cash and use my super I can be self funded to the tune of $45k a year.
Is $45k enough to live on and have a reasonable standard of life.
We own everything we have, our cars are less than 6 years old and there is no pressing repairs needed on our house.
We dont drink, somke or have any expensive hobbies.
But Id like to be able to get away occasionally and have a comfortable life without eating dog food.
If I cant get work in the next 4 months, Ill have to go down this path.
Cheers
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One of the huge problems I had looking to retirement was trying to work out how muck I will need as an income in retirement. People are very shy when it comes to revealing their financial situation. In the time I have been retired we have moved house and spent a lot on the new house and have bought our Vista. Now that things have settled down a bit, I find that the $52k a year is ample. At the moment I drink and smoke (much to the disgust of my GP). Only concern I can see is if later on I want to change or upgrade any of the big ticket items.
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The issue I have is that you have two identical people with identical opportunities, wages etc etc etc. One is the saver puts money away pays off their house etc. The other lives it up, has nothing, rents etc.
Why should the saver be penalised having to sell assets etc and the other is entitled to government benefits immediately when they both find themselves out of work on the same day?
the only question i have is this:
what's the point of accumulating assets through your life, if they don't provide a benefit later (ie: financial independence)
obviously, it depends on the asset, but if you have accumulated a large property portfolio (for example), but are unable to gain financial stability from that, what's the point?
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the only question i have is this:
what's the point of accumulating assets through your life, if they don't provide a benefit later (ie: financial independence)
obviously, it depends on the asset, but if you have accumulated a large property portfolio (for example), but are unable to gain financial stability from that, what's the point?
x2
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[quote
Is $45k enough to live on and have a reasonable standard of life.
Cheers
[/quote]
If you own everything and cant live on $870 a week somethings wrong ..
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One of the huge problems I had looking to retirement was trying to work out how muck I will need as an income in retirement.
Can be very complicated......depending on how long you live for....are you only spending interest......or dipping into funds as well....??
Most self funded retirees grapple with these questions......especially if the share market dives ( if you have super etc )..
If you have assets ( say property ), when is the best time to sell some of it ??
A financial adviser ( one that doesn't actually touch your money ) is probably essential if you want to maximize returns.....even a talk to one for assurance you are doing everything right ??
I figure I've got 20 yrs of "good" life left ( if I live that long ), so in that time if funds allow, at least one new 4wd and a new van will probably be needed, so you have to add that on top of the annual "wage " as well !
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I remember Packer's famous words.
Anyone who doesn't try to reduce their tax is an idiot.
I have also seen plenty of wealthy organisations reap as much free cash from the government as they legally could.
I can say from experience..............gold bullion is a excellent way to "hide" hard earnt cash to top up welfare payments or to escape paying tax.
Life has absolutely nothing to do with fairness. Its about how good you are at playing their ever changing game.
Why do you think they wants us to head in a direction of a cashless society?
I say.................rage against the machine in my own way....................I control my life............."NOT THEM"
I remember many decades ago........my father once said to me as a teenager, "It's not much $$$ you earn in your job, it's what you do with it afterwards that will determine your life stlye"
Sorry about the rant.
:cheers:
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I kinda like the system they have in NZ. When you get to retirement age, you get the pension. But it's part of your assessable income and you pay tax on it. Imagine what we could save if we got rid of the hordes of public servants, computer systems and consultants who are currently checking up on your assets and income so they can adjust your pension payment twenty-six times each year. I reckon such a system might actually cost less overall and everyone would think it fair.
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Ill open up
The "assets are a boat , a camper, 2 cars and 100k in the bank plus my household furniture and my wife's antiques and tools.
They did an estimate and it just goes over the threshold...........of course.
The two years is based on my redundancy and payout which They say I can live on for two years.
I have my own home, and own everything, owe nothing to no one.
I have saved and slaved to own these things, including my boat and would like very much to get to use it, not sell it.
After yet another knock back today, not even an interview .....again, its looking like I have little choice.
Should have gone into politics or the public disservice, bummer
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stabicraft, a good financial adviser would be your best friend. (Most advisers do not charge for a first visit.) We spoke to a few prior to my retirement almost 5 years ago, at the old age of 55. Found one and he and his firm have been looking after mine and my wife’s super since then. He does everything, including our tax returns and so much more. We have a Self Managed Super Fund (SMSF) and although a SMSF does not suit some it has worked well for us. I just reached the 60 mark and now my withdrawals are tax free. I hate the share market but without it our fund would not be in such a good position, and we are very cautious investors believe me! It was extremely hard to hand over all of our hard earned money but you just have to trust someone sometimes. We know how volatile the market is and still worry because the world could get hit by another financial collapse anytime. We also do not qualify for any assistance but our SMSF does get tax concessions, so that is a real plus. And a good adviser is not cheap. Our adviser works on a percentage that is held in our fund basis, so the more our fund increases the more he gets. He is totally independent and receives no commissions from the businesses we have shares in. We can call him anytime to ask advice at no extra charge and that is very helpful. Kevin
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I guess a lot of this discussion depends on what you believe you pay / paid tax for, and whether paying tax for X years automatically entitles you to receive monetary assistance to live, once you retire.
One thing that I've come to learn recently is that as a Nation generally, we're living beyond our means. Everyone wants more and a better standard of living, but no-one wants to make any sacrifices or pay a cent more for it.
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Ill open up
The "assets are a boat , a camper, 2 cars and 100k in the bank plus my household furniture and my wife's antiques and tools.
Mine is 2 cars, a van and 50K in the bank........and I believe I'm eligible.....when my waiting period is up ( is nearly 1 1/2 yrs.....this december )
I really hope I can get a job before dealing with the centrelink robots, but it's not looking good..
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Ill open up
The "assets are a boat , a camper, 2 cars and 100k in the bank
I hope your wife doesn't develop a gambling problem and chews through $10K a week for 10 weeks.
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As for paying tax and expecting things, that was one of the reasons taxes were introduced in the first place, to support the aged past retirement.
Govco bet on us dying before we cash in, and in many cases this is true.
But as we live longer, and as they suck more and more from the system for their own benefit, the cash is drying up.
But over the years, the reason for taxes has changed, with the impost and excessive expenses that our elected leaders expect and unfortunately get.
Why does a politician or senior public servant get asset test free pensions which are far in excess of that "enjoyed" by those who have paid for it?
I can understand paying some public servants a higher pension, military, police, nurses etc, those who have given freely of their lives to help us.
But politicians, fat cats and judges? what have they done to deserve tax free, excessive pensions when in many cases they are multi millionaires anyway? and the only giving they do is giving to themselves.
Other parasites on the system, aid for other countries, illegal immigrants and blood sucking organisations such as the United Nations are all a worthless drain on the system, stop it now.
Simple to fix really.
One pension for all, regardless of who you are or what you do, with a full asset test for all, However if one is an essential service such as military, nurses, police, ambulance drivers and firemen, a special dispensation for the work they do.
All overseas aid to stop NOW, no more immigrants until everyone in Australia is working
Finally all multinationals to pay the ta they owe or they leave and we keep the assets from their business, including copyright.
All politicians and public servant to travel using the same model as used by "real" organisations. pay first, claim expenses for all travel and be reimbursed IF applicable. With seriously clear and suitable rules about travel expenses and entitlements.
Seriously reduce the levels of government to two, and cut the numbers considerably, there are too many of them.
Australia would be in a much better position and all this kicking the poor sod without a job because of moronic government policy and "Free trade" will stop.
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Other parasites on the system, aid for other countries, illegal immigrants and blood sucking organisations such as the United Nations are all a worthless drain on the system, stop it now.
a fair chunk of the aid that we provide to other countries does a lot of good and so does the work of the UN... and if you happened to live in those countries, rather than our own country, you would quickly see that we are doing pretty well considering.
at least a lot of us earn enough money to pay tax and accumulate luxuries like boats, cars and camper trailers...
as a first world country, we have a responsibility to help other countries that cannot help themselves.
but, by the same token, we should also be helping our own people first and not provide aid to countries that do not require it...
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Trouble with the system is they want you to be self funded, but then make it hard to pump heaps into your super so you CAN be self funded..
Tax you on the way in and again on the way out..
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Its called greed.
and unfortunately it is lorded over by the stupid.
So we have greedy, stupid people running the stuff.
That's why, if you have enough money, you can beat the stupid and pay little or no tax to the greedy.
The guy up the road from me owns his own business, has big boats, Jags and harleys.
lives in a big house on two blocks and has an overseas holiday every year.
His daughter was eligible for aus study though, and he told me he pays tax on $25k a year, thanks to his accountant.
Everything is claimable, from his house to the trips overseas, work expenses.
His parties are also claimed.
Suckers like me have no way to do this so I pay more tax than he actually claims as a wage.
The system is sick, broken and cant be fixed by the impotent, stupid, greedy bribe taking pollies and public servants we currently have.
And getting them out would be harder than getting a bush tic out of a a wool bound sheep.
Cant beat the system, I'm going to try and join it..............if I can
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Trouble with the system is they want you to be self funded, but then make it hard to pump heaps into your super so you CAN be self funded..
Tax you on the way in and again on the way out..
definitely agree on this point...
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Its called greed.
and unfortunately it is lorded over by the stupid.
So we have greedy, stupid people running the stuff.
That's why, if you have enough money, you can beat the stupid and pay little or no tax to the greedy.
The guy up the road from me owns his own business, has big boats, Jags and harleys.
lives in a big house on two blocks and has an overseas holiday every year.
His daughter was eligible for aus study though, and he told me he pays tax on $25k a year, thanks to his accountant.
Everything is claimable, from his house to the trips overseas, work expenses.
His parties are also claimed.
Suckers like me have no way to do this so I pay more tax than he actually claims as a wage.
The system is sick, broken and cant be fixed by the impotent, stupid, greedy bribe taking pollies and public servants we currently have.
And getting them out would be harder than getting a bush tic out of a a wool bound sheep.
Cant beat the system, I'm going to try and join it..............if I can
My daughter and her husband are in this position. They got there by hard work and taking a risk. Thanks to them now 24 of their employees have a job.
As to being controlled by the stupid and greedy - rather than complaining about how they get too much, maybe we should pay our pollies more so we can get some quality people to run the country properly.
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To answer a couple of questions in the last few posts...
I have been told by my FA that if you own your own home and are otherwise debt free; then:
Approx $50pa allows a single to have a good lifestyle in retirement..
(This is defined as OS trips; restaurant meals; etc...).
For a couple - the price is approx $80Kpa..
AMP has a really good website that explains all of this in a very clear way...
But that means you need between $1M and $2M in your super....
This is if you have it invested conservatively (say earning 5% return) - and are retired (at age 65 and paying no tax on your income streaming from your SMSF or other vehicle).
I understand the family home is not calculated for the purposes of assesing whether you fall into the "Self Funded" camp...
I think once you have other assets that add up north of $900K - you are totally on your own, BUT between $900K and zero - you are eligible for some Govtco pension (pro rata) for your retirement...
Assuming you have "windfalls" along the way (before you hit 55yo or 60 - 65yo...) -- once the "normal" tax is paid on it at your marginal rate - you can chuck the rest into your super... (No more than $450K over 3 years and up to a max of 150Kpa...) ...Or has Govtco recently mucked with this one??
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The problem with the "system" we live under is that everyone wants to get more out of it than they are prepared to put in to it.
The pension system can not work, it's simple mathematics. If people only lived for a few years after they retire then it would have a chance but with our present life expectancy the numbers don't work out. Basically we are living under a pyramid scheme where future generations will be called upon to pay for our excesses. We think we can work for thirty years and then get a free ride for thirty more because we put away 5% of our wages into a retirement fund. How can that work? Some even think if they pay a few dollars in tax then they should also be entitled to support for 30 years of retirement. Throw in the ridiculous amount of money that goes into medical care to keep most retiree's alive and even blind Freddie can see it can't work. The US does not have anywhere near the retirement and medical privileges that we have yet they are very close to imploding. If any other country was in the financial position of the US it would have collapsed years ago.
I live in a retirement area and can honestly say I don't know anyone that has truly financed their retirement but everyone seems to be living very comfortably. History has shown that civilizations last about 200 years before they collapse, glad I am not starting out now.
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My daughter and her husband are in this position. They got there by hard work and taking a risk. Thanks to them now 24 of their employees have a job.
As to being controlled by the stupid and greedy - rather than complaining about how they get too much, maybe we should pay our pollies more so we can get some quality people to run the country properly.
I think this is the bit Stabicraft is disgusted with, and quite rghtly so
" His daughter was eligible for aus study though, and he told me he pays tax on $25k a year, thanks to his accountant.
Everything is claimable, from his house to the trips overseas, work expenses.
His parties are also claimed. "
Basically just rorting the system
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I think this is the bit Stabicraft is disgusted with, and quite rghtly so
" His daughter was eligible for aus study though, and he told me he pays tax on $25k a year, thanks to his accountant.
Everything is claimable, from his house to the trips overseas, work expenses.
His parties are also claimed. "
Basically just rorting the system
Then at some point he or his accountant is going to have to pay the piper. Sounds like a bit of bragging going on there.
I agree that our whole government structure, taxation and welfare need overhauling. In fact companies like EY have come up with some seriously impressive discussion papers on better ways we can run the country but as if the existing hierarchy are going to change the status of that.
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Then at some point he or his accountant is going to have to pay the piper. Sounds like a bit of bragging going on there.
I agree that our whole government structure, taxation and welfare need overhauling. In fact companies like EY have come up with some seriously impressive discussion papers on better ways we can run the country but as if the existing hierarchy are going to change the status of that.
Agree on all points. Son in law has an excellent accountant but still pays heaps of tax (and rightly so). As well as income tax gets stung for payroll tax and company tax.
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Stabicraft, what are the antiques included in your asset calculation?
My understanding is that it isn't necessary to include insured value in what you report to Centrelink.
'Fire sale' price of 'old second hand furniture' is OK.
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Its called greed.
and unfortunately it is lorded over by the stupid.
So we have greedy, stupid people running the stuff.
That's why, if you have enough money, you can beat the stupid and pay little or no tax to the greedy.
The guy up the road from me owns his own business, has big boats, Jags and harleys.
lives in a big house on two blocks and has an overseas holiday every year.
His daughter was eligible for aus study though, and he told me he pays tax on $25k a year, thanks to his accountant.
Everything is claimable, from his house to the trips overseas, work expenses.
His parties are also claimed.
Suckers like me have no way to do this so I pay more tax than he actually claims as a wage.
The system is sick, broken and cant be fixed by the impotent, stupid, greedy bribe taking pollies and public servants we currently have.
And getting them out would be harder than getting a bush tic out of a a wool bound sheep.
Cant beat the system, I'm going to try and join it..............if I can
The so called system has been running for thousands of years and still will be running for another thousand. No point complaining, run with it to your benefit.
Everything is claimable if set up that way, on the flip side, everything that is claimable is also up for grabs when things go bad, including the house. Risky setup.
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Ill open up
The "assets are a boat , a camper, 2 cars and 100k in the bank plus my household furniture and my wife's antiques and tools.
They did an estimate and it just goes over the threshold...........of course.
The two years is based on my redundancy and payout which They say I can live on for two years.
I have my own home, and own everything, owe nothing to no one.
I have saved and slaved to own these things, including my boat and would like very much to get to use it, not sell it.
After yet another knock back today, not even an interview .....again, its looking like I have little choice.
Should have gone into politics or the public disservice, bummer
You want to try being a kiwi... you get that answer regardless of your assets.
You could be sleeping in your Y fronts on the lawn at parliment house after paying tax 30 years and your entitiled to nothing.
On the otherhand an aussie can get off a plane and sign up at work and income and 6 weeks later be on the rock n roll in NZ.
They can get 30 % of thier rent paid the first week if they have reciepts and a contract.
Ive been off work for 3 months here at the longest and a bunch of times for any thing up to 6 weeks here and there and my mrs cant even get rent assistance becasuse we have (or had ) 2 dependant kids living at home and had rent to pay.
Im not winging because i feel entitiled,was just refreshing the conversation
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Seriously reduce the levels of government to two, and cut the numbers considerably, there are too many of them.
Agree with what you say, but this bit should go further - there only needs to be 1 Australian Government, with 1 set of laws country-wide.
If you can build a house in Brisbane, you should be able to build one in Perth; drive in Hobart = drive in Darwin & so on & so on...
Why do we have Federal Dept of Transport, State Dept of Transport then Council filling potholes; Federal & State Health & Council doing restaurant inspections & providing vaccinations?
The States should exist for ceremonial purposes only (so that Qld can continue to kick arse in State of Origin >:D) with a much smaller "State" public service in place to administer the national laws, rather than rewrite them to apply to each state, then an even smaller Council to do the same sort of thing. Get rid of 2 layers of politicians & fat-cat bureaucrats, & their life-time entitlements & we'll save $ squillions /rant >:(
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Couldn't agree more Fizze! But to try and answer your question why do we have ect ! It's because we as a Nation are only a collection of states under a Federation and as such ,as we often see WA want to do,could seced from the Nation and go it alone ! Not one politician will touch this hot potato !
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The so called system has been running for thousands of years and still will be running for another thousand. No point complaining, run with it to your benefit.
Everything is claimable if set up that way, on the flip side, everything that is claimable is also up for grabs when things go bad, including the house. Risky setup.
Fair enough using the system to claim what you are entitled to, but their are some *'s that just totally rip it off, and mainly the ones who are better off than the average Joe Blow. But like you say, they still run the risk of losing big time if their crooked antics are found out. Not that I would dob in an * that was ripping off the system and causing me to pay higher taxes to his benefit... Like hell I wouldn't >:D
If you are wondering what an * is, grab a mirror and bend over, it becomes obvious.
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If I,m hungry and ask for a sandwich from someone ..I don't then complain about what's on it.
If you don't want to work for the dole ..don't ..its that simple.
If after 12mths of tax payer funded TIME to find employment if you have not, then I see no issue in being asked to do some work for the $$$ each week.
We all spend part of our income travelling to work.. but it all comes down to choice ..if you don't like the centre link system ..then don't be part of it. Its far from perfect no argument there but its still better than nothing.
I am sorry if I offend anyone but honestly, in this country we have welfare and people still complain about it. If I had no job and had tried to find work for 12mths and then was asked to go do some work for the $$$ I was getting each fortnight I would happily do it.
Putting a $$ figure on your hours is not accurate as you are not in position to do that, you are unemployed being subsidised by the govt/tax payer.
For the OP and no offence ..how long should the govt pay you to keep looking for employment before they find you something.
I know this is a deeply personal situation and we all have opinions and I sincerely apologise in advance if mine has offended anyone but I just don't get the right to entitlement that this country has.
Jet ;D ;D
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Well said jet crew.
As the government says we are currently living in the age of entitlement. Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything for free and think the money grows on trees.
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Well said mate
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Approx $50pa allows a single to have a good lifestyle in retirement..
(This is defined as OS trips; restaurant meals; etc...).
For a couple - the price is approx $80Kpa..
AMP has a really good website that explains all of this in a very clear way...
But that means you need between $1M and $2M in your super....
That's me F#$ked then, nowhere near that sort of money.
My wife has never worked, medical issues.
I have been sole earner all our married life and govco has contributed nothing because I have been earning a reasonable wage.
But the trouble with this is that I could not save as I should have as it went on medical and other expenses.
So I guess Ill be one of the destitute, Oh well S$%t happens.
I have been going over my "assets" suddenly everything is devalued.
My new boat is now worth $6k
My cars are old and worth less that $3k and $6k respectively
My wifes antiques, what antiques? they are just old cups and plates, hardly worth a thing.
My tools, all old, couldn't get 20 bucks for the lot.
Our clothes and furnishings, hardly worth the trouble to throw out
The electrical stuff, hey the newest thing we have is my computer and its second hand, the rest is more than 10 years old.
Overall, my assets have been devalued to less than $20k
Ill be putting my savings into my super in a few weeks so there will be nothing there either.
Suddenly Ill be free to get something from these parasites.
May they all rot and die
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hi all.
As the government says we are currently living in the age of entitlement
and the govt ministers we all know are living in the age of entitlement
with helicopter rides etc etc
so I suppose some ordinary folk try to do the same
enjoy life
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When I looked up some of the sites on retirement requirements, they seemed to be saying that a comfortable lifestyle is possible on $58k for a couple. The only thing they were vague on was how much you need in super/investment to be able to achieve this.
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Sell it all up, hitch up, toss a coin '' decide left or right " hit the road in that direction, Become a traveller and enjoy the big country as you go, walk into a pub after knock off time or just ask as you go " if theres any work going " maynot be this town or the next but you will jag it and be richer for it ...
The more I remember about it, thats what my dad did when we left the farm, resulted in life long working / friendships .. No dole or support systems for a single bloke and 4 kids to raise way back then.
I know of several people that have hit the road in the past few years and they have that much work choice now in different parts of the country [ through contacts they have made ] and are so much better off finacialy than when they left its not funny .
Soon as we can get the wifes health to a managable state, I reckon we will be Tossing that coin too, not long afterwards ...
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They had a segment on retirement savings this morning on channel 9. If anyone is interested they said the money magazine has an extensive article on how much is enough for your retirement. Although it's 30 years away for me it's something I better think more about.
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Frustrating part about it is that my crystal ball has broke.
I taught financial maths for 40 years and kept many newspaper articles over the years.
The two that stick in my mind was that when the employer funded super was introduced in the late 80's I calculated that I would have $180k when I retired and would be able to live the good life.
In the mid to late 90's I saved an article saying that the aim should be for $450k.
The current situation is that they are suggesting $800k to $1.1mill. will be enough to fund retirement till age 85 with a comfortable lifestyle.
I decided that I would retire at age 60 (last year) , short of the recommended target, but 40 years of teaching had taken its toll.
Have spent 14 months getting things in order to take Edz advice, toss the coin, and hope that a bit of income supplement may happen on the way.
Just need to duck back to home base every now and then as my wife and I know we are going to miss the 6 grandkids.
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As I neared retirement I was concerned about how long our super would last us and being able to live how we want. Then I realised that although we may live past 80, hopefully, we would not need as much to live on as the older we get. I mean we travel a lot but that cannot go on forever. We have two cars, one day we will only need one, in fact we are getting close to that time now as next year we will be away for 12 months and our second car will be sitting in our garage. So just be realistic when ‘they’ give figures how much you need to live on to live the good life until 84 etc. Remember, time is matching on and you need to make the most of it while you can. And when you get a serious medical condition diagnosed everything changes, believe me! Kevin
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so..............
Is it [possible for a bloke and his wife to live a reasonable life on $45k a year?
We have no overheads other than rates, elect, water, rego and insurance.
Or do I have to get ionto politics and live an entitled life with no morals, no soul and no self respect?
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Well said jet crew.
As the government says we are currently living in the age of entitlement. Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything for free and think the money grows on trees.
In my case..
Well said jet crew.
As the government says we are currently living in the age of entitlement. The Government thinks they are entitled to my labour for free and think that my labour grows on trees.
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so..............
Is it [possible for a bloke and his wife to live a reasonable life on $45k a year?
We have no overheads other than rates, elect, water, rego and insurance.
Or do I have to get ionto politics and live an entitled life with no morals, no soul and no self respect?
Very possible - we are on about that with 3 kids own 3 cars the camper no debts apart from a very small mortgage,just the normal bills no credit cards a bit of money in the bank go on an interstate holiday 2 - 3 times a year not extravagant in the way we live but we survive just on that income.
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Or do I have to get ionto politics and live an entitled life with no morals, no soul and no self respect?
And luckily, we live in a country where you can participate in the political system and try and make a change for the better.
Other countries are not so lucky.
This constant derision of all politicians being the source of all evil in our lives is getting a bit old.
Yes, I'll agree that some politicians are not the best people getting around, but there are plenty of politicians that actually do care about their constituents and try and do the best for their area of responsibility.
The political system, whilst it has its faults, is certainly better than a lot of alternatives around the world.
As someone who is directly benefiting from government funding for mental health issues for my two sons, I get a bit disgusted with people who say that the government does nothing.
Be thankful that you don't need to avail the government of this type of funding and help.
I'd be happy to invite you to my house and you can see the real benefits that plenty of people get through this type of government help.
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Have to agree with Paceman. I have a daughter (now 23) who has CP and both intellectual and mental disabilities. She receives government assistance to lead a reasonable life with support from the NDIS.
I am about to turn 70 - I am retired. In the ACT I will get free bus travel and the renewal of my licence last week was $0. I have superannuation but qualify for a small pension. This entitles me to subsidised medication for blood pressure.
I am active in my community and participate politically at the local level. I don't agree with what some politicians do on either side but appreciate what both the Federal and ACT governments does for us.
But enjoy my Prado and camper to get out and about and meet lots of very interesting people out there. The second hand Prado and camper were retirement presents to myself so I could.
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Looks more and more like I will be surviving on my cash, so be it.
I have put my name down for Marine rescue and Im also thinking about the rural fire or whatever the volunteer group is.
I have been looking around for mens sheds, with the skills I have I can possibly help out here as well.
One thing I dont want, and that is to sit around and vegetate.
I can go fishing, but even that starts to get expensive after a while with fuel etc.
Ill let you guys know how it all goes, but the best outcome would be to actually manage to get a job.
Cheers
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Looks more and more like I will be surviving on my cash, so be it.
I have put my name down for Marine rescue and Im also thinking about the rural fire or whatever the volunteer group is.
I have been looking around for mens sheds, with the skills I have I can possibly help out here as well.
One thing I dont want, and that is to sit around and vegetate.
I can go fishing, but even that starts to get expensive after a while with fuel etc.
Ill let you guys know how it all goes, but the best outcome would be to actually manage to get a job.
Cheers
From what I understand about superannuation, the multi million $ estimates of what is needed are based on living off just the earnings. Significantly less is needed if you assume use of some capital over time and inclusion of part pension when you reach eligible age.
Good luck with it all. Health issues throw many a poor deal as far as the options to save are concerned.
Many years ago when paying off our home at high interest rates and unemployed for a couple of months I thought it particularly unfair that, while we would qualify for rent assistance, the same amount, or even a percentage, was not available as mortgage assistance. Yet another example of adverse effect of the system on those who were struggling to provide for themselves.
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Yeah B$B I have had that discussion with other government departments in the past.
Its all down to the fact that they refuse to help someone in owning their own home, but are happy to help pay off someones investment with rent assistance, probably because some government minister owns properties.
That's not an issue for me now anyway.
I own my own home, payed it off during those nasty 18% interest days.
They were hard times, we were living off less than $50.00 a week after mortgage, petrol to get to work and insurances, the necessities.
There was no living in the age of entitlements in those years, we were struggling to survive, nearly lost the house.
Oh and I was earning $18.00 a week too much to get that lovely first home owners grant that was available?
Did anyone , except those in privileged positions or ministerial jobs, actually get that grant?
While I was told I earned $18.00 a week too much, but the banks told me I earned too little to qualify for a loan.
It took some lucky coincidence, a lot of negotiation and a bit of fiddling to secure a loan at all.
Love the system don't ya?
Thinking back on it, I should have pissed all my money up the wall, spent up big and wasted everything I earned.
Could have had a great time travelling and just living beyond my means, then when I was all clapped out I could just go to centafink and pleaded poor, get given a lovely free ride for the rest of my life with rent assistance and the dole.
Stuff that hard work and saving crap.
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Oh and I was earning $18.00 a week too much to get that lovely first home owners grant that was available?
Did anyone , except those in privileged positions or ministerial jobs, actually get that grant?
While I was told I earned $18.00 a week too much, but the banks told me I earned too little to qualify for a loan.
It took some lucky coincidence, a lot of negotiation and a bit of fiddling to secure a loan at all.
Love the system don't ya?
Thinking back on it, I should have pissed all my money up the wall, spent up big and wasted everything I earned.
Could have had a great time travelling and just living beyond my means, then when I was all clapped out I could just go to centafink and pleaded poor, get given a lovely free ride for the rest of my life with rent assistance and the dole.
Stuff that hard work and saving crap.
I got the first home buyers grant and it helped immensely and I'm not a minister or privileged.
I'm 31 and I am now in the process of building a house. It will be my 3rd house I have upgraded each time through hard work and if I sat on the dole I never would have owned a house. If I keep working hard hopefully I can retire early.
Stabi I am sorry but you are full of negativity
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Cannot understand how some people seem to see living on the dole or age pension as desirable. I worked hard, saved, took some risks in investments so that I can lead a better lifestyle. I now hope that my super will last for the next 20-30 years until I leave this planet and at that stage there should be s sizeable inheritance for my grandchildren.
We sometimes see the result of people living off welfare, but is this lifestyle something you would aspire to?
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Cannot understand how some people seem to see living on the dole or age pension as desirable.
Neither can I !! Have been on the dole for 6mths some 20yrs ago, and even though it puts money on the table, you really seem to be only in survival mode..
How someone can spend a lifetime on it is something I can't get my head around, but even though I MAY get on it come the end of the year, I'm 56 and job prospects are a lot thinner on the ground than a few yrs ago ..
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I can't understand some of the negativity in this thread...
Stabi, you are one of the lucky ones!!!
Take your $45k per year and enjoy it. As for being jealous of those reciving the dole and "you should have done things different" you must have rocks in your head!
If you want to suplement your 45k with part time work at a supermarket/Bunnings/cleaning then even better.
I don't believe anyone is "entitled" to anything and I am truely thankful that I was born white and with the right passport that has given me the opportunities I have had so far. I worked with many skilled Indians in the Middle East who were treated like prisoners and worked away from home for 365 per year, 12hrs per day for $350 per month to feed there families who they didn't get to see... (In thier communities, they are the lucky ones)
Most of us, even those on welfare have it much better than 90% of the rest of the planet. I'm not religious or a greenie and don't know who to thank, but be thankful for who you are and what you've been lucky enough to accumulate.
Negativity attracts negativity! Always has and always will...
I have been unemployed for 4months at the age of 33. My wife is pregnant (doesn't work since first child as made redundant on maternity) and I have a 3year old son. We have been on the road for 107 days and frankly it has been the best thing that we could have done. I will carry these memories of our quality time to my death bed. We don't get a cent of government assistance and don't intend to. When the funds are low, I will pick fruit, do diy, clean toilets, paint houses, mow lawns or what ever it takes to put food in front of my family. We will sell our camper and downsize the car, all before ever taking a cent of welfare. When and if we truly had nothing and no options, then is the time I would look for help from my government.
When my industry picks up again, I will look to return to that (O&G). If it doesn't pick up in Australia, then we will pack up our things and go to where the work is.
As humans, we don't need much to survive and live an awesome and happy life... We just think we do!
This has turned into a rant and I didn't want it to, but I hope you can understand my sentiment.
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I can't understand some of the negativity in this thread...
Stabi, you are one of the lucky ones!!!
Take your $45k per year and enjoy it. As for being jealous of those reciving the dole and "you should have done things different" you must have rocks in your head!
If you want to suplement your 45k with part time work at a supermarket/Bunnings/cleaning then even better.
I don't believe anyone is "entitled" to anything and I am truely thankful that I was born white and with the right passport that has given me the opportunities I have had so far. I worked with many skilled Indians in the Middle East who were treated like prisoners and worked away from home for 365 per year, 12hrs per day for $350 per month to feed there families who they didn't get to see... (In thier communities, they are the lucky ones)
Most of us, even those on welfare have it much better than 90% of the rest of the planet. I'm not religious or a greenie and don't know who to thank, but be thankful for who you are and what you've been lucky enough to accumulate.
Negativity attracts negativity! Always has and always will...
I have been unemployed for 4months at the age of 33. My wife is pregnant (doesn't work since first child as made redundant on maternity) and I have a 3year old son. We have been on the road for 107 days and frankly it has been the best thing that we could have done. I will carry these memories of our quality time to my death bed. We don't get a cent of government assistance and don't intend to. When the funds are low, I will pick fruit, do diy, clean toilets, paint houses, mow lawns or what ever it takes to put food in front of my family. We will sell our camper and downsize the car, all before ever taking a cent of welfare. When and if we truly had nothing and no options, then is the time I would look for help from my government.
When my industry picks up again, I will look to return to that (O&G). If it doesn't pick up in Australia, then we will pack up our things and go to where the work is.
As humans, we don't need much to survive and live an awesome and happy life... We just think we do!
This has turned into a rant and I didn't want it to, but I hope you can understand my sentiment.
Well said.
I particular like your sentiment on "entitlement"
Best wishes to you and your family.
Brian
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I have put my name down for Marine rescue and Im also thinking about the rural fire or whatever the volunteer group is.
I have been looking around for mens sheds, with the skills I have I can possibly help out here as well.
Stabi
What part of the country are you?
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Why not start a thread of people looking for work
What their skill sets are and whether they are prepared to relocate or a distance they will travel to work
Some people might require some casual work done and hence can use my swag people who are looking for work
There is a job going to a good mature person in a food outlet in toowoomba. Owner keeps getting let down by staff not turning up. If anyone is interested just PM me. Could be part time or casual
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I am so glad someone has came back re the negativity. Same with so much hate for our politicians. Yes they are not perfect, but look a little deeper and with a unbiased political view and see where the trouble is. I used to be very one party person in my Union days then I started to question and became a non party voter. I can now see all sides of politics and see how currently our federal Parliament is being controlled by a hostile senante and issues that are extremely important for our future are being blocked. Sad part is a leader who has very little plans and is very negative is winning the popular votes. Sorry, my little rant........ kevin
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Well said Kev.
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I got the first home buyers grant and it helped immensely and I'm not a minister or privileged.
I'm 31 and I am now in the process of building a house. It will be my 3rd house I have upgraded each time through hard work and if I sat on the dole I never would have owned a house. If I keep working hard hopefully I can retire early.
Stabi I am sorry but you are full of negativity
JuicyApples, Stabicraft is talking about a much earlier grant scheme, back in the late 1970s / early 1980s.
By the time we bought our place in 1986 the grant had ended, and it was only possible to get a small portion of a loan at the 'fixed' housing loan rate, about 5%, with the balance at approx 18%.
That was more, quite literally, 'credit card interest rates'. The Federal Treasurer at the time was a little pr!ck named John Howard...
The amount you could get at the low interest rate was based on your bank balance over the past 2 years, so I actually started out by borrowing $5000 from my credit union, putting it on term deposit with the bank, then paying off the loan out of my pay every week, as well as paying rent.
Stabi must be a bit older than me I think, as I was too late to even be in the race for the earlier grant.
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I am so glad someone has came back re the negativity. Same with so much hate for our politicians. Yes they are not perfect, but look a little deeper and with a unbiased political view and see where the trouble is. I used to be very one party person in my Union days then I started to question and became a non party voter. I can now see all sides of politics and see how currently our federal Parliament is being controlled by a hostile senante and issues that are extremely important for our future are being blocked. Sad part is a leader who has very little plans and is very negative is winning the popular votes. Sorry, my little rant........ kevin
I'd have to agree to disagree. Our current bunch of politicians as a whole, lack any insight or political will to address the real issues that we are facing. It is easier to kick the can down the road and leave the mess for someone else to try and clean up. They are only interested in engaging those swing voters who may control,the electoral outcome, rather than developing sound policies and a dialogue with the voters that would see them engage and support hard decisions to make things better in the long term. Both Hawke and Howard managed to sell the need for hard decisions to the electorate. Hawke had the wages freeze (sorry Accord) and Howard the reduction of public service jobs and asset sales. The current crop couldn't sell an ice cream to my kids in the middle of a Queensland summer!
There are one or two ( and I mean those numbers) who have some foresight and economic understanding. The rest I'd take to a Cape York for a swim in the Jardine River.
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They are only interested in engaging those swing voters who may control,the electoral outcome, rather than developing sound policies and a dialogue with the voters that would see them engage and support hard decisions to make things better in the long term.
Welcome to democracy
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JuicyApples, Stabicraft is talking about a much earlier grant scheme, back in the late 1970s / early 1980s.
By the time we bought our place in 1986 the grant had ended, and it was only possible to get a small portion of a loan at the 'fixed' housing loan rate, about 5%, with the balance at approx 18%.
That was more, quite literally, 'credit card interest rates'. The Federal Treasurer at the time was a little pr!ck named John Howard...
The amount you could get at the low interest rate was based on your bank balance over the past 2 years, so I actually started out by borrowing $5000 from my credit union, putting it on term deposit with the bank, then paying off the loan out of my pay every week, as well as paying rent.
Stabi must be a bit older than me I think, as I was too late to even be in the race for the earlier grant.
Must be Alzheimer's then. Keating under Labor was treasurer from 1983 -1991. Interest rates hit 18% in 1989. In 1986 rates were about 13.5% . I remember it all very well.
:)
http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html (http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_Australia#List_of_Treasurers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_Australia#List_of_Treasurers)
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Welcome to democracy
Noone said it was the best system. Just the best we've made so far :)
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Must be Alzheimer's then. Keating under Labor was treasurer from 1983 -1991. Interest rates hit 18% in 1989. In 1986 rates were about 13.5% . I remember it all very well.
:)
http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html (http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_Australia#List_of_Treasurers[/
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_Australia#List_of_Treasurers)
Must be Alzheimer's then. Keating under Labor was treasurer from 1983 -1991. Interest rates hit 18% in 1989. In 1986 rates were about 13.5% . I remember it all very well.
:)
http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html (http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html)
No mate, just going from memory. It was the Libs who got rid of the first home buyers grant, I believe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_Australia#List_of_Treasurers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_Australia#List_of_Treasurers)
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JuicyApples, Stabicraft is talking about a much earlier grant scheme, back in the late 1970s / early 1980s.
By the time we bought our place in 1986 the grant had ended, and it was only possible to get a small portion of a loan at the 'fixed' housing loan rate, about 5%, with the balance at approx 18%.
That was more, quite literally, 'credit card interest rates'. The Federal Treasurer at the time was a little pr!ck named John Howard...
The amount you could get at the low interest rate was based on your bank balance over the past 2 years, so I actually started out by borrowing $5000 from my credit union, putting it on term deposit with the bank, then paying off the loan out of my pay every week, as well as paying rent.
Stabi must be a bit older than me I think, as I was too late to even be in the race for the earlier grant.
I figured he may have meant several years ago but he never clarified it.
The little prick who was a great prime minister or is that another little prick? :cheers:
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The little prick who was a great prime minister
That obviously is an opinion not shared by everyone....but an opinion neverless !!
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I figured he may have meant several years ago but he never clarified it.
The little prick who was a great prime minister or is that another little prick? :cheers:
Handed out sh!t loads of money to the wealthy, including unlimited tax free superannuation if you had the money to afford to stash away. Just one of the many examples of middle class welfare that have resulted in an inadequate tax base, forcing those younger than me to now have to work till they are 70. Nothing 'great' about that, just the very political opportunism others on here have spoken about. Likewise, as Treasurer he also dodged some of the hard decisions subsequently taken on by Labor. The fixed exchange rate, which in significant part is what started pushing interest rates up, being another of those decisions.
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might be off the topic..but been touched upon
Home loans or buying a home ..I have this uneducated theory as discussed with my 17.5YO son last week.
weather buying a 80K home at 18% or a 300K home at 3% ..ITS GUNNA COST YOU 50% OF YOUR INCOME.
Kids these days carry on about how hard it is ..I say BS ..get used to living off 50% of what you earn not 95% and then complaining you cant afford a home on what's left.
Sacrifice does not discriminate between generations the goal posts might move but the sacrifice is still there as the ferry man.
jet ;D ;D
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Handed out sh!t loads of money to the wealthy, including unlimited tax free superannuation if you had the money to afford to stash away. Just one of the many examples of middle class welfare that have resulted in an inadequate tax base, forcing those younger than me to now have to work till they are 70. Nothing 'great' about that, just the very political opportunism others on here have spoken about. Likewise, as Treasurer he also dodged some of the hard decisions subsequently taken on by Labor. The fixed exchange rate, which in significant part is what started pushing interest rates up, being another of those decisions.
Working till 70 or beyond is a demographic issue in the Western world, not the result of any particular leader or party. If you look beyond Australia, you will see the same issue in many countries. It's going to be a real drag on economic prosperity as the world figures out how to deal,with people living much longer and how to fund it.
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Handed out sh!t loads of money to the wealthy, including unlimited tax free superannuation if you had the money to afford to stash away. Just one of the many examples of middle class welfare that have resulted in an inadequate tax base, forcing those younger than me to now have to work till they are 70. Nothing 'great' about that, just the very political opportunism others on here have spoken about. Likewise, as Treasurer he also dodged some of the hard decisions subsequently taken on by Labor. The fixed exchange rate, which in significant part is what started pushing interest rates up, being another of those decisions.
Wasn't Hawke/Keating in government in power when interest rates were at there highest?
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Wasn't Hawke/Keating in government in power when interest rates were at there highest?
Was actually them who made the hard decisions, having inherited rising interest rates from Fraser and Howard.
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Like the hard decisions the current government is trying to make after labor pissed our money up the wall.
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Working till 70 or beyond is a demographic issue in the Western world, not the result of any particular leader or party. If you look beyond Australia, you will see the same issue in many countries. It's going to be a real drag on economic prosperity as the world figures out how to deal,with people living much longer and how to fund it.
I don't deny the demographic reality, how that was already evident when Costello handed out the 'all you can stash away' super to the wealthiest early baby boomers. Not so much a short term political 'fix' as 'poisoning the well' for the next government. For that reason a genuine example of political barstardry
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I don't deny the demographic reality, how that was already evident when Costello handed out the 'all you can stash away' super to the wealthiest early baby boomers. Not so much a short term political 'fix' as 'poisoning the well' for the next government. For that reason a genuine example of political barstardry
Seems like you need to read that inter generational report really.
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Seems like you need to read that inter generational report really.
The unlimited tax free super after age 60 was solely a political decision, recommended by no independent expert. In fact, most of the finance industry was incredulous when it was announced.
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Wasn't Hawke/Keating in government in power when interest rates were at there highest?
A quick net search threw up this link regarding who inherited what economic circumstances from whom.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/a-history-of-australian-budget-surpluses-and-deficits/5446434 (http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/a-history-of-australian-budget-surpluses-and-deficits/5446434)
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The unlimited tax free super after age 60 was solely a political decision, recommended by no independent expert. In fact, most of the finance industry was incredulous when it was announced.
Read the report is all I can say. It shows if the governments don't get those who can pay their own way, off the public purse, then we are going down the gurgler really fast. You may argue about the edges, which is the amount of tax free super, but the amount of people in these brackets is so small as to not affect the budget significantly. Trying to remove those people who can pay for their own retirement, from the distortions of a tax system that rewards those who try to arrange their finances to also collect pensions, is a good first step.
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Read the report is all I can say. It shows if the governments don't get those who can pay their own way, off the public purse, then we are going down the gurgler really fast. You may argue about the edges, which is the amount of tax free super, but the amount of people in these brackets is so small as to not affect the budget significantly. Trying to remove those people who can pay for their own retirement, from the distortions of a tax system that rewards those who try to arrange their finances to also collect pensions, is a good first step.
The 'rot' started when Joh got rid of death duties and all other states followed the same way.
There is actually a sound argument to say all should be entitled to an age pension, but that there should be far less tax exemptions for both individuals and corporations. Likewise, all income over a basic minimum, including the pension, should be taxed. As an encouragement for people to put money into super I would leave it tax free going in and tax at 50% of the marginal rate coming out.
It is the endless exemptions that make basic levels of social,security unviable.
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The 'rot' started when Joh got rid of death duties and all other states followed the same way.
There is actually a sound argument to say all should be entitled to an age pension, but that there should be far less tax exemptions for both individuals and corporations. Likewise, all income over a basic minimum, including the pension, should be taxed. As an encouragement for people to put money into super I would leave it tax free going in and tax at 50% of the marginal rate coming out.
It is the endless exemptions that make basic levels of social,security unviable.
There is a sound argument that says that taxes should be for essential services. Society determines what those are. For most people essential services are whatever the government provides me, so the cuts should come from someone else...... Economically it has long been shown that there are tipping points of both taxation and government spending that actually reduce economic growth. The current government spending is above that threshold as a percentage of gdp. Excessive taxation like excessive government spending both distort the economy and adversely affect those working and paying taxes.
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So did any of these politicians have to work for the dole ? - Topic drifted off track a fair bit soon we will be talking about the popes beanie should he or should not wear it if he was to work for the dole
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I think super shouldn't be taxed going in and out....unless a lump sum over a certain amount was withdrawn.
And certainly if your return from super was more than the pension by a certain amount, no pension would be able to be claimed.
The more they encourage people to build their super, even if the govt loses a bit of tax by doing the above, the more they save on pension payments.
I know people on the old state super scheme, getting paid a pension of over 100K, who are manipulating their finances so they can receive $1 of govt pension. ....to qualify for the benefits..
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I don't think it matters how they set the super and tax laws. The bottom end will continue to take all the handouts and contribute next to no tax and the upper end will continue to rort the system and pay next to no tax while the so called middle income earners will continue to be exploited by the government and get nothing.
I am retired now but when I was working I received no government grants, my kids received no Aus study and every time I earned an extra couple of dollars doing overtime the government took half of it away in tax. If I had been on $10k less a year I would have received an extra $15k a year in entitlements. If the government had abolished income tax and imposed a GST of 30% I would have been way in front and those that rort the system would have to pay up.
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If the government had abolished income tax and imposed a GST of 30% I would have been way in front and those that rort the system would have to pay up.
You and I think alike Old n slow, I'm certainly no economist, but have been saying similar for years... get rid of personal income tax and a charge 15% GST on everything + let people put their super into buying / paying off / owning their first house to build a retirement fund instead of a pension .
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let people put their super into buying / paying off / owning their first house to build a retirement fund instead of a pension .
How would that work ? Owning a house ( even though it should be a priority for everyone ) doesn't build a retirement fund ??
Can't live off a house.....even though you can sell and downsize...
Unless someone has a better idea, living off the proceeds of super/shares/cash/multiple investment properties etc seems the only way of avoiding getting the dole/pension !
And in ideal circumstances, I think everyone would prefer NOT to have to rely on any payments from the govt !
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Oldandslow, we must be of the same generation.
First home owners grants were like rocking horse teeth.
The 18% interest rates nearly crippled me, but we managed to get through it.
We had children and were given a few dollars, which we used only for the kids.
As for not paying tax on super, of course we do, we pay for it going in and we are taxed coming out, and if you look at the super accounts you see administration fees and government charges, we pay, and pay and pay.
Like you I too watched as my bonuses were plundered by the government.
1/2 or close enough was STOLEN from me by govco every time.
I received these bonuses for working above and beyond, just what the hell has govco ever done to deserve any of my bonus?
But what gets my goat, I have always been a single income earner, due to my wife's ill health.
But my sister and her husband with their combined wage was only about 10k more than mine.
However, they payed heaps less tax, because there were two incomes, not just one.
How is that fair? Why is income splitting not available?
After all they do not giver her the dole or benefits based on my wage.
And when you get a pension its as a couple, not individuals, its only when they win do they use the rules they want.
Bloody bunch of corrupt, narcissistic, Machiavellian, bombastic, bastards.
I reiterate , A POX ON THEM ALL, MAY THEY ALL GO TO HELL.
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Just reading between the lines here stabie. I take it you're not keen on our canberian masters?
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How would that work ? Owning a house ( even though it should be a priority for everyone ) doesn't build a retirement fund ??
Can't live off a house.....
Told ya I'm an NOT an economist, just thinking, it might allow you to pay the house off a lot quicker and put a working lifes full of extra dollars away into investments / property what ever.. come retirement you should be pretty well off ..
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I agree Gronk that super should not be taxed on the way in - at lease for say unto $50Kpa..
But I really think super should be taxed at say a whooping 50% - for those who decide to take it out ie.......(lump sum it)...
leave it in super and "live off it - over your retirement age" = tax free...
Take it out and spend it up big - so the retiree then can conveniently fall onto the pension - that activity needs a tax levied on it - imho...
I think super shouldn't be taxed going in and out....unless a lump sum over a certain amount was withdrawn.
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Told ya I'm an NOT an economist, just thinking, it might allow you to pay the house off a lot quicker and put a working lifes full of extra dollars away into investments / property what ever.. come retirement you should be pretty well off ..
Super is a forced saving....you and I know most people would use any extra money to spend on anything else BUT paying off their house and saving for retirement.....just human nature !
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I agree Gronk that super should not be taxed on the way in - at lease for say unto $50Kpa..
But I really think super should be taxed at say a whooping 50% - for those who decide to take it out ie.......(lump sum it)...
leave it in super and "live off it - over your retirement age" = tax free...
Take it out and spend it up big - so the retiree then can conveniently fall onto the pension - that activity needs a tax levied on it - imho...
Agree fully mate.....spend it as a pension but not as a lump sum..
But why not let people put in as much as they like per year....the more the less likely they will need a pension...if the above rules were in place..
My retirement age is now.....56.....but I can't take any super out ( tax free ) until 60. I'm not a rich super account holder, but if I was, and I could afford a pension on that super ( no lump sums over say 40K ) for the next 20+yrs, then I would like it tax free at MY retirement age, not the govts..
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Agree fully mate.....spend it as a pension but not as a lump sum..
But why not let people put in as much as they like per year....the more the less likely they will need a pension...if the above rules were in place..
I wanted to say this one too; mate - but didn't want to risk getting flamed by the Comrades re: (workers' rights vs. so called fat cats lining the supers with tax free dollars...) LOL grrr
I recon the more people can shove into their super *tax free* - and then use it as a pension - the less likely drain there will be on welfare? tba...
At least if people are prepared to put in extra money of the discretionary own - and put that into their super - (well at least that component should be tax free_ ... (both at the payg stage; and when it is put into super)... ie" totally no tax impost..."
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Oldandslow, we must be of the same generation.
First home owners grants were like rocking horse teeth.
The 18% interest rates nearly crippled me, but we managed to get through it.
We had children and were given a few dollars, which we used only for the kids.
As for not paying tax on super, of course we do, we pay for it going in and we are taxed coming out, and if you look at the super accounts you see administration fees and government charges, we pay, and pay and pay.
Like you I too watched as my bonuses were plundered by the government.
1/2 or close enough was STOLEN from me by govco every time.
I received these bonuses for working above and beyond, just what the hell has govco ever done to deserve any of my bonus?
But what gets my goat, I have always been a single income earner, due to my wife's ill health.
But my sister and her husband with their combined wage was only about 10k more than mine.
However, they payed heaps less tax, because there were two incomes, not just one.
How is that fair? Why is income splitting not available?
After all they do not giver her the dole or benefits based on my wage.
And when you get a pension its as a couple, not individuals, its only when they win do they use the rules they want.
Bloody bunch of corrupt, narcissistic, Machiavellian, bombastic, bastards.
I reiterate , A POX ON THEM ALL, MAY THEY ALL GO TO HELL.
WOW ...
Govt took the nominal tax rate applicable to all..but you feel they stole from you, maybe they should return the tax you paid and tell you to use your own hospitals and schools and roads etc ..or repay the actual costs that you and your family have ever have incurred from public tax payer funded systems, a whole family with 1 tax payer ..your way in front IMHO...
Jet ;D
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I'm certainly no economist, and don't claim to know about it, but it seems there are countless rules and regs and policies that try to manipulate the system for whatever benefit. This depends on who's side of the fence you're on as to how you view it.
Simplify it.
Flat tax rate.
whatever is turns out to be it is.....
10%, 15% or 45% or anywhere it needs to be, its a fair simple system.
No loopholes, no exemptions no business rates, no ancillary taxes, just a flat turnover rate.
Impossible to rule - yes. Impossible to implement - yes. Impossible to budget on - yes. So of course it will never happen, but how good would be?
A simple thing to remember.
Tax was designed to pay for the services the government provide to the community.
It was not meant to be a system of welfare lifestyle. Nor was it designed to accommodate for rorting.
Integrity and honesty are the problem not the tax system or economic system.
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Thats the problem jetcrew, it dont apply to all.
If you are a multinational, rich, or have a means and way to fiddle the tax you dont pay it.
Its only the poor sods who work for a living that pay all the tax.
The pollies are all in the pockets of these people and have no intention of rocking the boat.
Pauleen Hanson had the right idea, and was very quickly ostracized, prosecuted and put in gaol for daring to suggest an effective way to prevent tax rorts.
She suggested a flat tax rate applicable to each and every money transfer.
Let me ex[plain
3% tax every time money changes hands or is transferred.
For you and me that means, you pay 3% for having your wages transferred into the bank, you pay 3% for taking it out and you pay 3% to spend it on something............total tax 9%.
But the devil is in the detail.
Banks transfer money all over the country and world on a daily basis, trillions and trillions of dollars every single day.
They do this to avoid tax, cant tax money that's not there right?
Multinationals pay no tax at the moment and send billions of dollars off shore, not if they pay a 3% tax they don't.
By adopting the flat 3,4 or even 5% tax to ALL money transfers, govco would soon have more money than they could spend, people would have more cash to spend, Australian businesses would pay less tax and importers would have more competition.
All of which would be better for the economy and Australian people.
The downside
No more tax dodges, multinationals would have to pay millions perhaps billions in tax and banks, that do not actually make anything, would have to pay billions in tax.
And therein lies the crux, these big players feed cash into govco coffers and would be very very angry if they had to actually contribute.
So it will never happen, and after the Hanson exercise, no one will be game to bring it up again.
So who really rules the country, not the pollies, they are just the useless, parasites that people target instead of the real movers and shakers.
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WOW ...
Govt took the nominal tax rate applicable to all..but you feel they stole from you, maybe they should return the tax you paid and tell you to use your own hospitals and schools and roads etc ..or repay the actual costs that you and your family have ever have incurred from public tax payer funded systems, a whole family with 1 tax payer ..your way in front IMHO...
Jet ;D
+1...
at least we in australia can see some benefit with the taxes we pay (roads, schools, health). a lot of other countries don't.
whilst the idea of flat tax rates and other simplistic ideas all sound good in theory, i am sure there are many valid reasons why they won't work.
i'm not naive enough to believe that running a country's finances is the same as running a business, i'm afraid. there are many different variables that we are just not privy to...
also, to those who think that the government takes all of our money now, why wouldn't they adopt a simpler tax system (as described in previous posts) that gives them more money?
makes no sense to me..
yes, i'll agree that our tax system is not perfect, but it's a damn site better than some alternatives.
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Governments are put in place by donations from big business, any talk of a flat tax rate would stop those donations in a flash. A flat tax rate is a simplistic solution to the tax fiasco and it would work but it will never happen because the 3% of the population that have 90% of the countries money and pull the strings would then have to pay their share.
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Governments are put in place by donations from big business, any talk of a flat tax rate would stop those donations in a flash. A flat tax rate is a simplistic solution to the tax fiasco and it would work but it will never happen because the 3% of the population that have 90% of the countries money and pull the strings would then have to pay their share.
last time i checked, just about anyone could run as an independent and be elected to parliament and make a difference in the house of reps or the senate. it's happening right now in qld, in particular.
nothing to do with being a party, with donations apparently running things. if you hate it that much, do something about it.
this idea that big business pays no tax is simply laughable. big business, just like you and me and everyone else, tries to minimise the tax that they pay. that's not illegal.
no-one is disagreeing that the tax system could be improved.
the middle class does not generate enough tax revenue to run the country. full stop. big business pays a buttload of tax.
the perception is that they don't pay enough, compared to what you and i pay. big difference between our perception and the reality.
next time you get a chance to actually look at the tax code, take a close look at what medium to large businesses actually have to pay tax on, then you might get a different perception.
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Such a shame that some feel so negative about the way the country is run. Any model for government has its faults. By running a system od Capatalist/Socialist I believe we get the best of both worlds. It does get up my nose sometimes that large companies appear to pay little or no tax, but I wonder haw much of this is hearsay.
We must be doing something right to have the standard of living we are lucky to enjoy.
Melbourne- most liveable city in the world, Adelaide number 5 and Perth, Sydney in the top 10
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http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/big-business-took-25-billion-in-tax-relief-in-2014-tax-office-figures-show-20150331-1mbnuh.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/big-business-took-25-billion-in-tax-relief-in-2014-tax-office-figures-show-20150331-1mbnuh.html)
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http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/big-business-took-25-billion-in-tax-relief-in-2014-tax-office-figures-show-20150331-1mbnuh.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/big-business-took-25-billion-in-tax-relief-in-2014-tax-office-figures-show-20150331-1mbnuh.html)
and yet, that article does not mention how much 'other' tax they did pay... don't believe everything you read... context is key.
the figures of the top 900 companies includes superannuation funds, which pay 15 per cent tax on profits, and property trusts, which don't pay company tax at all - the beneficiaries of the trust pay their normal income tax rate.
and, that has prompted a tax reform senate committee to fix this, and other issues with the tax system...
and let's not forget, this tax-minimisation has been going on for years and years and years and has been overlooked by both sides of government.
i am not saying that things couldn't be better, because they certainly could, but this constant 'the government is responsible for all of my woes and does nothing for me' diatribe is getting a bit ridiculous.
we can just agree to disagree and move on. you think the government is the devil incarnate, while i think that we are in a much better position than plenty of others.
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http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/big-business-took-25-billion-in-tax-relief-in-2014-tax-office-figures-show-20150331-1mbnuh.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/big-business-took-25-billion-in-tax-relief-in-2014-tax-office-figures-show-20150331-1mbnuh.html)
Hahahahahah
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Just what we have been talking about ( hope he picture works)
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As an upcoming moderator.. I say we start executing people if they don't have work. Its much cheaper.
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As an upcoming moderator.. I say we start executing people if they don't have work. Its much cheaper.
Now your starting to think like the liberal government.
Our narcissistic ex prime minister howard the coward, had plans to re instigate the working class poor.
He was so upset by his brothers totally inadequate abilities to run a company, resulting in its failure.
Who, as all who fail, blamed the union movement and the workers.
Not the imbecile in the mirror who couldn't run a piss-up in a pub.
So howards plan.....destroy the unions, reduce wages, give employers draconian powers and produce a new slave class of people who worked for next to nothing.
Of course, the welfare system would have to also be abolished, cant have a safety net and then the ruling class could be free to do what they like, and of course give to political parties.
His plan failed, he was an idiot, yes that is well known, but he tried to do too much too soon without enough propaganda to cover it up.
Along comes Abbott, the man, he is more propaganda savvy, use the media to put forward every negative aspect of pensions and the welfare system, while extolling the virtues of free trade and being lorded over by multinationals.
Looked like he was going to succeed, following on howard's plan for a slave class, removing welfare, calling pensioners a drain on the system, building up to remove pensions and welfare from all.
But when one throws stones, some are sometimes thrown back, now we are seeing exactly how much cake these pollies are getting and what is costs, people are begining to see our political system for what is is, a snouts deep exercise.oops looks like Abbott may have stepped in the poo.
I'm all for a fair days work for a fair days pay
But working to survive, just, while the business manager lives high with all the extras off my labour, it smells a little bit, No?
And as for getting rid of the dole
Lets look at this process.
Criminals are generally lazy, I know just like politicians, but just not as well set up.
Because they are lazy, its better for us to pay them a dole to keep them out of our houses rather than making them go out and find an income through crime.
It don't work for them all, but a large enough percentage will be just happy to stay at home, smoking dope and watching TV, rather than actually going to all the trouble of stealing.
But, take the dole away, and they will have no choice, and it not the government of pollies who will suffer, its you and me who will have our houses knocked over and our cars stolen.
Get rid of the dole, and crime will escalate, and with govcos cost cutting by removing police and making education harder and harder to get, more smart people will turn to crime and the few cops left have no chance.
So, do we still think it stupid to pay the dole?
Better to pay the dole and get rid of the biggest thieves, politicians.
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This thread needs a bit of cheering up.
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Now your starting to think like the liberal government.
Our narcissistic ex prime minister howard the coward, had plans to re instigate the working class poor.
He was so upset by his brothers totally inadequate abilities to run a company, resulting in its failure.
Who, as all who fail, blamed the union movement and the workers.
Not the imbecile in the mirror who couldn't run a piss-up in a pub.
So howards plan.....destroy the unions, reduce wages, give employers draconian powers and produce a new slave class of people who worked for next to nothing.
Of course, the welfare system would have to also be abolished, cant have a safety net and then the ruling class could be free to do what they like, and of course give to political parties.
His plan failed, he was an idiot, yes that is well known, but he tried to do too much too soon without enough propaganda to cover it up.
Along comes Abbott, the man, he is more propaganda savvy, use the media to put forward every negative aspect of pensions and the welfare system, while extolling the virtues of free trade and being lorded over by multinationals.
Looked like he was going to succeed, following on howard's plan for a slave class, removing welfare, calling pensioners a drain on the system, building up to remove pensions and welfare from all.
But when one throws stones, some are sometimes thrown back, now we are seeing exactly how much cake these pollies are getting and what is costs, people are begining to see our political system for what is is, a snouts deep exercise.oops looks like Abbott may have stepped in the poo.
I'm all for a fair days work for a fair days pay
But working to survive, just, while the business manager lives high with all the extras off my labour, it smells a little bit, No?
And as for getting rid of the dole
Lets look at this process.
Criminals are generally lazy, I know just like politicians, but just not as well set up.
Because they are lazy, its better for us to pay them a dole to keep them out of our houses rather than making them go out and find an income through crime.
It don't work for them all, but a large enough percentage will be just happy to stay at home, smoking dope and watching TV, rather than actually going to all the trouble of stealing.
But, take the dole away, and they will have no choice, and it not the government of pollies who will suffer, its you and me who will have our houses knocked over and our cars stolen.
Get rid of the dole, and crime will escalate, and with govcos cost cutting by removing police and making education harder and harder to get, more smart people will turn to crime and the few cops left have no chance.
So, do we still think it stupid to pay the dole?
Better to pay the dole and get rid of the biggest thieves, politicians.
let me guess, you're a labor man?
because all i ever see is criticism of the coalition as if labor has done nothing wrong in the last 50 years...
i think (and i accept my part) that the thread has gone from a 'work for the dole' thread to a political views thread, which never ends well...
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Stabicraft,
I think that you are entitled to your opinions as we all are in this great nation and applaud the passion and motivated spirit with which you share that opinion.
That said I am not sure that myswag is providing you with the platform you need to express the deep seated issues and opinions that you have, I feel that this small platform is doing you a dis service and perhaps other mechanisms would be better suited to share your experiences.
Possibly a letter to your local member, or an on-line political forum ect where like minded people share their opinions and experiences, I would encourage you to seek one or two of these out, I would respectfully say that you may need to polish up on your delivery as I loose half of your content within the rhetoric and 15yo semi slogans that you write and I am sure that other forums might not be so accommodating of that style of delivery.
You have a story and a message ..and both are worthy ..but I will be asking for what I,m sure everyone is thinking right now ...
Lock this thread please mods ....
I know I should stop reading it but I'm addicted to it in the same way we all slow down to look at a car crash, its wrong I know but I cant help myself ..please Mods save me from myself.
Jet ;D ;D ;D
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Topic has been locked, one of the mods will be along later to cleanup..
C'mon guys, please play nice :D
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Nope, this whinge fest is too hard to sort out. It's staying locked. The topic heading was always going to be a red rag to the forum political zealots. Political discussion on this forum will always cop a discriminating eye. Right up there with religion. As Jetcrew has stated, there are plenty of specialist forums that welcome such discussion. Take it there.