Post by: KeithB on June 12, 2015, 03:25:30 PM
Coming east over the Simpson towing a trailer a month or two ago, I dropped pressures to 16/19 hot and kept an eye on tyre temperatures, which stayed under 60 degrees. I was not overloaded.
Arriving in Birdsville I found that both rears had split walls around the white lettering. Coopers have offered to replace them. But I am concerned about maybe a bad batch and what about the other four?
A tyre dealer I spoke to said that he was always getting Coopers back with split walls and Coopers just keep replacing them and keep quiet about it. He said there was never a problem with BFGs or Mickey Thompsons.
My last set of the same Cooper tyres were fine, but I did not do any sand work and they never went below 24 psi.
Can anyone tell me whether these Cooper tyres are in the habit of splitting?
Cheers
Keith
Post by: Green rv on June 12, 2015, 03:48:24 PM
i was working in a 4wd workshop just over 2 years ago
the boss had two cars with coopers on, both got splits in the side walls
and also talked to a lot of customers(from caravaners to extreme 4wders) that had them with the same problem
the second thing i always heard, was slippery in the wet
thats just what ive seen and heard about them
edit -- should add that the other 50% were happy with them
:cheers:
Adam
Post by: isportfish on June 12, 2015, 03:54:03 PM
Post by: sablesoft on June 12, 2015, 06:10:31 PM
The only split I have had in my Cooper ATR/AT3 tyres were caused by a 2 inch section of one or those knives with snap off blades, It cut a BAD gash in the side of the ATR tyre side wall near the tread, cutting cords etc, only had about 5000k on the tyre. Not repairable so had to buy a new tyre, very pissed off at the scumbag who dumped a broken knife blade on the road.
Ray
Post by: Skinnee on June 12, 2015, 07:55:51 PM
Post by: 99disco on June 12, 2015, 07:57:30 PM
Father in law has had st and ht now do the same thing, keeps buying the bloody things though.
Shane
Post by: Snapman007 on June 12, 2015, 08:16:45 PM
Post by: cruza driver on June 12, 2015, 08:24:37 PM
I have ST Maxx's on my BT 265/70/17 and have covered approx. 44k
Half would be towing the Expanda and not just on the Bitumen either with trips through outback central QLD with the van on.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa110/cruzadriver/Queensland%203013/1018_zps531fe262.jpg) (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/cruzadriver/media/Queensland%203013/1018_zps531fe262.jpg.html)
Post by: geopaj on June 12, 2015, 08:27:47 PM
My last set of the same Cooper tyres were fine, but I did not do any sand work and they never went below 24 psi.
Definitely doesn't sound right. For reference, I also crossed the Simpson towing about the same time as you last year (early October). I did nearly the entire crossing with 10psi in the front, 10psi in the trailer and in the back whatever pressure was required to get equal bagging (more weight in the road).
I had no issues with tires at all (definately no sidewall splitting). 4wd has BFG LT AT tires, and the camper has Kumo LT AT tires.
Post by: dooguss on June 12, 2015, 08:53:15 PM
85k on them now and not an issue since, I"ll be putting coopers back onto my car again no hesitation.
Post by: KeithB on June 13, 2015, 08:56:46 AM
To make matters worse, the dealer (who seems to be a genuine bloke) says he did not buy them from Coopers, so I think they might be a dodgy import, which I don't think Coopers are aware of and may negate my Coopers warranty.
The dealer says he can't replace the split ones but will refund after an inspection.
My concern is that, if I deflate the tyres again for sand work, I will have to more split rears and he and I will be having the conversation all over again.
I have asked the dealer to sharpen his pencil and see if he can do a replacement set of BFGs or Mickey Ts, neither of which seem to have a splitting problem at low pressures. Will be interesting to see how I go on that one.
Mind you, I really like the ST Maxx tyres. They are great on the road, grip well in the wet, are not too noisy and are excellent off road. Shame about the side walls though.
Keith
Post by: BTMNDR on June 13, 2015, 09:07:56 AM
Yep it's a cooper thing, heaps of Shit.
Well, I'm really happy with my "heaps of Shit" A/T3s, 80,000 km & still going, no cracks, been aired-down to mid 20s. Excellent tyre in my experience.
Post by: patroldude on June 13, 2015, 09:27:45 AM
Post by: HKB Electronics on June 13, 2015, 10:55:19 AM
said Cooper were trying to do away with the white lettering as it has something to do with it.
I don't believe it affects the safety of the tyre is just a cosmetic?
Post by: Steffo1 on June 13, 2015, 11:38:53 AM
Yep it's a cooper thing, heaps of Shit.I don't normally return comment to a quote like this but, after having done some 85,000k on Cooper STs which included the GRR, Cape Leveque, Gunbarrel, Simmo & quite a few other jaunts they succumbed to one slow puncture caused by a piece of metal from the old Hatches Creek mine.
Shane
I've just got rid of the last set of STs which were good for 95,600k, also with a fair bit of non bitumen work (western NSW & Vic High Country to name a couple). Did not have one problem with them.
I've replaced them with ST Maxx as our days of super remote/harsh trips are behind us so it will be interesting to see how they go in regard to the OP.
And NO, I'm not a dedicated Coopers man. I have Maxxis Bighorns on my 'tilley & they're a good tyre for what I use it for. They have chipped a little but for where I've had them I think any tyre would.
Maybe some tyres are better suited to certain vehicles than others & corresponding driving styles/techniques.
Steve
Post by: KeithB on June 13, 2015, 12:41:46 PM
It is interesting that only the rears, which has a lot of weight on them, are showing the problem. I think 16 psi cold and 19 psi hot should be fine for a proper off road tyre on sand.
Post by: gronk on June 13, 2015, 02:14:56 PM
I think 16 psi cold and 19 psi hot should be fine for a proper off road tyre on sand.
As long as they don't get hot !!
Normal sand work is fine, but even a run up the beach on the hard packed sand at 70 k/ph can put some serious heat in them at times....plus the fact they are Coopers !! 8)
They have the biggest advertising budget ( and have done for yrs ), which means they have got a good market share, but it's well known they are a very ordinary tyre......just ask a tyre shop anywhere in the outback !!
There are people who will defend them till the cows come home, because they haven't had problems with them, but if you took a survey, they would be by far the most complained about tyre out there !!
Post by: dazzler on June 13, 2015, 02:32:51 PM
A tyre that is that low can ripple along the sidewalls which causes a wave type of pattern that is what you see in tyres that have blown due to being run very low due to a slow leak.
Happy to be proved wrong but I doubt there is any tyre manufacturer that would replace a tyre under warranty if the owner said it was run at 16psi for any length of time.
I know that is not the flavour at the moment in 4wd circles but my 2c anyway.
Post by: KeithB on June 13, 2015, 03:40:45 PM
Post by: dazzler on June 13, 2015, 05:15:33 PM
My 16/19 hot was over the Simpson in sand in cool weather. The tyres stayed at about 55-65 degrees, depending on whether or not they were in the sun.
Thats why the heat is not really relevant.
They are still able to ripple. Maybe not enough to get hot enough to fail, just enough constant flexing to create cracks. If they got hot enough then they would have fractured and failed.
Think of it this way. Take a teaspoon and slowly bend it a little in the middle and then back - Uri Geller style. Just slowly, not enough to get hot, just enough to bend. Eventually it fails even without the heat.
In our off road race buggies we always played around with tyre pressures and would try and get low to take the jarring out of your kidneys and hands. Over six hundred k's it made a big difference. Maybe 25 was the lowest I can recall ever running. We would damage rims all the time and they failed really quick when the pressures started dropping - even before you felt it low in the handling.
Meant to add - Being the backs that cracked they endure a lot more force from the trailer than the fronts. They were probably bagging out way more than the front
Post by: slydar on June 13, 2015, 06:29:37 PM
Well, I'm really happy with my "heaps of Shit" A/T3s, 80,000 km & still going, no cracks, been aired-down to mid 20s. Excellent tyre in my experience.
same here, even though I look suspiciously at the decorative imprint in the side walls and wonder if it could be a weak point in later years of the tyres
Post by: gronk on June 13, 2015, 07:29:17 PM
I dont agree with dropping tyres to 16 on hard surfaces.
Neither do I, but if you are doing sand driving up a beach, then you have no choice.....unless you are part of that group of people that think power overcomes all obstacles and lowering pressures is for pansies !!
I had a blowout along the Cordillo Downs track a few yrs ago...started out at a 60 k/ph track, but got faster as we travelled south, and when I had a blowout, we were travelling at approx 90 k/ph...with 28 psi in the tyres.....rear tyre blew out ( we were also towing a KK at the time ) and when I felt the other good tyre it was VERY hot...lesson learnt....if you lower pressures, keep the speed down !!
Post by: KeithB on June 13, 2015, 09:36:15 PM
Keith
Post by: Elky on June 13, 2015, 10:01:17 PM
As long as they don't get hot !!
Normal sand work is fine, but even a run up the beach on the hard packed sand at 70 k/ph can put some serious heat in them at times....plus the fact they are Coopers !! 8)
They have the biggest advertising budget ( and have done for yrs ), which means they have got a good market share, but it's well known they are a very ordinary tyre......just ask a tyre shop anywhere in the outback !!
There are people who will defend them till the cows come home, because they haven't had problems with them, but if you took a survey, they would be by far the most complained about tyre out there !!
Interesting the cooper is not a premium tyre in the us, but here in oz it is, ETD have certainly got a good marketing budget! Whilst I have not had coopers a close mate has and they developed bulges in the sidewall and 2 blew out, can't remember what ones tho but were a bit older.
You either love coopers or hate them!
Cheers
Post by: jr on June 13, 2015, 10:47:36 PM
Post by: areyonga on June 13, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
In September last year I put on six 285/70/R17 Cooper ST Maxx on my 200 Series, with two spares on the back. Since then I have covered only 17,000km and have rotated the tyres several times.Coopers are rarely used in the topend for that reason, they have an aggressive advertising campaign but poor quality in the outback. A mate put 6 new Coopers on in Sydney to go to the Kimberly and by Alice had shredded 3 of them, he changed all them to another brand to complete the trip with no further troubles. They would be the last on my list of considerations and are waaaayyyyy overpriced.
Coming east over the Simpson towing a trailer a month or two ago, I dropped pressures to 16/19 hot and kept an eye on tyre temperatures, which stayed under 60 degrees. I was not overloaded.
Arriving in Birdsville I found that both rears had split walls around the white lettering. Coopers have offered to replace them. But I am concerned about maybe a bad batch and what about the other four?
A tyre dealer I spoke to said that he was always getting Coopers back with split walls and Coopers just keep replacing them and keep quiet about it. He said there was never a problem with BFGs or Mickey Thompsons.
My last set of the same Cooper tyres were fine, but I did not do any sand work and they never went below 24 psi.
Can anyone tell me whether these Cooper tyres are in the habit of splitting?
Cheers
Keith
Post by: dazzler on June 14, 2015, 12:02:04 PM
If they were rippling, Dazzler, wouldn't the cracks be axial rather than radial?
Keith
From the inside radiating out whichever that is. So straight lines not a circle around the outside. God that's hard to describe.
Just for context. You may have a crook batch just thinking of other reasons.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: allan.kidd on June 14, 2015, 12:16:13 PM
Post by: KeithB on June 14, 2015, 02:13:10 PM
I think they are great tyres too. Can I ask what date is stamped on your tyres?
There will be a two digit number (for the week in the year) followed by the year.
Keith
Post by: nab on June 14, 2015, 02:27:30 PM
According to the rep it wasn't a structural issue as such, the issue was that they put too much wax (or similar) in the tyre mould during construction. The wax was there so the rubber didn't stick to the mould.
May be a similar issue??
Post by: gronk on June 14, 2015, 05:48:22 PM
Coopers are rarely used in the topend for that reason, they have an aggressive advertising campaign but poor quality in the outback. A mate put 6 new Coopers on in Sydney to go to the Kimberly and by Alice had shredded 3 of them, he changed all them to another brand to complete the trip with no further troubles. They would be the last on my list of considerations and are waaaayyyyy overpriced.
As said before, Coopers ( and MT ) are a tyre with plenty of hype,,,but fail to deliver !!! You blokes with good stories to tell are far outweighed by the bad stories !
Post by: allan.kidd on June 15, 2015, 09:38:08 AM
As to reliability, there are horror stories about any tyre.
There are many members of the 4WD club I belong to that are using them and I have not heard one complaint.
Post by: Dueller on June 15, 2015, 10:16:05 AM
Cheers,
Matt
Post by: Team Evil on June 15, 2015, 02:49:29 PM
While I was outback, I was told some companies were switching to
Coopers as other brands were dying with 12000 km on them.
In the horror stories there is usually a common denominator.
Too much speed, and wrong pressures.
Post by: fishfinder on June 15, 2015, 03:50:59 PM
Post by: Team Evil on June 15, 2015, 04:06:32 PM
Too much speed, and wrong pressures.
Suprising how common sense does not exist in the real world.
Post by: dazzler on June 15, 2015, 04:37:21 PM
some one is now a tyre expert - the knowledge of this person is outstanding
?????
Post by: KeithB on June 17, 2015, 02:36:12 PM
Anyhow, the retailer has agreed to buy the six back, four of which are as new, at 7/8 of the original price PROVIDED that I buy a new set of BFG AT's from him.
I agreed and will end up with six new BFGs and be out of pocket just over a thousand bucks. I think he was very fair and a nice bloke to deal with.
Post by: Fathom on June 17, 2015, 03:00:18 PM
I went and saw the selling dealer today. My six Cooper ST Maxx each have 11,000km on them. Two are split and the other four will probably follow suit.I might be misunderstanding... Sorry if this is the case.
Anyhow, the retailer has agreed to buy the six back, four of which are as new, at 7/8 of the original price PROVIDED that I buy a new set of BFG AT's from him.
I agreed and will end up with six new BFGs and be out of pocket just over a thousand bucks. I think he was very fair and a nice bloke to deal with.
It seems this bloke sold you dodgy tyres branded Coopers... But he didn't buy them from Coopers? (From an earlier post in this thread of yours)
It just seems the stories of refunds/replacement seem better than what you have been offered? Most above suggest they got the tyre replaced? Not a 7/8th refund.
Although I do believe the cooper warranty is pro rata.?
Either way... It seems oldmate sold you some sort of fake/ grey import? And didn't tell you this initially but sold them to you at genuine prices...
I am not sure I would continue to trust this bloke... Let alone get more tyres from him. He doesn't seem fair and nice the way I read it.
Again.. Sorry if I am misunderstanding.
Cheers
Post by: Swannie on June 17, 2015, 04:12:21 PM
Swannie
Post by: KeithB on June 17, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I got them at a very good price and the retailer has stood behind them. It was probably cheaper for him to warrant them himself than to pay a premium by sourcing them from Coopers in Australia.
I am happier going off with a new set of six BFG's than having to worry about continually splitting tyres. I think this retailer was very genuine, gave me an fair shake and I would definitely buy from him again.
The Australian Cooper warranty is pro rata and has all sorts of strings attached.https://www.coopertires.com.au/media/1432/warrantyfaqpage.pdf (https://www.coopertires.com.au/media/1432/warrantyfaqpage.pdf)
Keith
Post by: slydar on June 17, 2015, 09:00:17 PM
It seems this bloke sold you dodgy tyres branded Coopers...
that's interesting - an rta inspector I know said this was believed to be happening particularly up around the top end - so it sounds like a bad batch of coopers were imported?
Post by: KeithB on June 17, 2015, 09:37:10 PM
Keith
Post by: gronk on June 17, 2015, 10:17:37 PM
- so it sounds like a bad batch of coopers were imported?
Been happening for 10 years !! ;D ;D 8) 8)
Post by: chillipepperz on June 17, 2015, 11:05:11 PM
Post by: jr on June 18, 2015, 09:05:42 AM
Dont be fooled direct imported ones are the same as local supplied ones, could be made for lower priced markets or be seconds etc.
Also can be lower ply rating or not LT rated, maybe different compound
Ive been runing cooper ST and ST -C and ST maxx for six sets, never had an issue.
One delaminated after plug repair
averaging ~80,000km plus on each set.
Too expensive but on work Patrols downtime costs more.
Had a few sets of BFG, had to replace them all due to damage to sidewalls
Post by: Chris. on May 07, 2017, 08:03:33 PM
Post by: Big D on May 07, 2017, 08:25:44 PM
Post by: KathyL on May 07, 2017, 09:18:40 PM
Over the last year we have travelled almost 40,000 with both the car and the camper trailer - we did a six month trip around Australia (including Fraser Island, Cape York, Gibb River Road and Cape Leveque), a few weeks in Tassie and a Victorian High Country trip (our second on this set of tyres - first was in 2015), and have run tyre pressures ranging from 8PSI to 36PSI.
Based on our 4WD/camper trailer setup and our experience we would have no hesitation in buying Cooper ST Maxx again.
Post by: Jasjul on May 07, 2017, 09:32:59 PM
Post by: Chris. on May 08, 2017, 06:16:11 AM
Mine have been faultless on the Triton, including Simpon east to west, Birdsville and Ooodnadatta track high speed, SA Far West Coast, Flinders, plus a stack of 110 km/h highway driving towing a Camper Trailer. Not a hint of cracking. They have done 45ooo kms, still heaps of tread and I trust them enough to go from Adelaide to Cape York OTT and through the Qld national parks including Lakefield in July this year. They are 245/75r16. Not had a single puncture yet in all that outback travel.
My husband and I have had Cooper ST Maxx 285x70R17 tyres for just over two years on our 4WD and for almost 18 months on our camper trailer. In that time we've driven approximately 70,000kms and towed the camper trailer approximately 40,000kms - we have the wheels rotated every 10,000kms and have not had any issues except for a slow leak caused by a nail (the leak was reported by our TPMS and the tyre was repaired).
Over the last year we have travelled almost 40,000 with both the car and the camper trailer - we did a six month trip around Australia (including Fraser Island, Cape York, Gibb River Road and Cape Leveque), a few weeks in Tassie and a Victorian High Country trip (our second on this set of tyres - first was in 2015), and have run tyre pressures ranging from 8PSI to 36PSI.
Based on our 4WD/camper trailer setup and our experience we would have no hesitation in buying Cooper ST Maxx again.
Coopers are a funny thing. I've had 4 or 5 sets and never had a problem over 15 years. I know people who have had cracking and tread blocks torn off and hate them. Although no recent issues. My ST Maxx I did 70,000kms with no issues. I now have STT Pro with 25,000kms, no probs. 265/75/16 and mostly High Country work.
Thanks for the quick feedback guys, I've done a heap more research & it appears that when these were first introduced there were random incidences of the side walls splitting (as per the early posts in this thread), I couldn't find any recent posts of it still happening.