Post by: terravista on May 07, 2015, 09:48:05 AM
This is not started to be that thread.
This one is about the too often repeated phrase "The overwhelming majority"... blah blah blah.
How the hell do the press, politicians and others come out with that drivel when no one has actually asked the overwhelming majority.
It is just like the noisy minority stuffing thier views down the throats of the silent majority.
We see a couple of thousand people including low talent musicians and actors (as if anyone cares what they think) protesting the Bali drug running criminals while the other 20 plus million Australians simply don't care. Same as three people felt sorry for Scapelle Corby, but the press kept waffling about the overwhelming majority wanted her back in Australia.
How about we just get a sheet of questions at the next election with a whole bunch of subjects with three boxes to each one. A Yes, a No, and a Don't give a rats arse boxes to tick with our somewhat outdated pencils.
These subjects could include things like Abortion, Capital Punishment, Same Sex Marriages, Level of Immigrants, Length of Political Terms, Abolition of State or Local Governments, Increasing the GST, Paid Maternity Leave, Free Childcare, Age of Retirement, Scrapping the Monarchy etc. etc.
This SHOULD be done with none of the Yes/No arguments we have to suffer through in a formal referendum, just get honest answers so the politicians can actually govern for the majority, not the noisy minority or rating seeking TV stations or press.
Now as far as the death penalty goes, if someone wants to start a dedicated thread, you can cut and paste the following on it:
At a personal level I am agree with Capital Punishment, but only when there is NO doubt regarding the guilt. None of this beyond reasonable doubt crap. Sure, many innocent people have been executed, but cases like Hoddle Street, Bryant is Tasmania, and numerous other crimes where there is absolutely no doubt, whether the bastards are insane or not, we just don't need to waste money keeping them alive. And as a deterrant, if you are dead, it is unlikely you will re-offend. In cases like Lindy Chamberlain and other similar ones, any doubt and NO death sentence, sounds pretty simple to me.
Maybe this should go in the rant thread, but just "having a rant" doesn't seem to be serious enough.
Post by: Bird on May 07, 2015, 09:51:14 AM
(http://www.kernelencorepopcorn.com/images/PopcornCups.jpg)
Post by: Pog on May 07, 2015, 09:59:50 AM
It is just like the noisy minority stuffing thier views down the throats of the silent majority.
There is a lot of this going on in this country at the moment. The media are feeding it, because it appears to be news, and then they make it news...
Post by: dales133 on May 07, 2015, 10:04:55 AM
Why should a bunch of politicians influenced by a few religious kooks get to decide whether someone should be able to end thier life if they are suffering or have an abortion.
Priests just don't like abortions because they get less orphans to mollest:)
Seriously though it should be done by referendums regular when something comes up that requires a decision.
And as far as the death penalties concerned it should be given the same treatment, let the people decide, I've already expressed my views on the death penalty and thier exactly the same as yours
Post by: terravista on May 07, 2015, 10:36:50 AM
Hasn't this been done to death and will end up as an argument and Shit again???
Have not seen many discussion about referendums on here, but I may be wrong. But thanks for the photo of your pantry.
Post by: dales133 on May 07, 2015, 10:42:18 AM
LOL
Have not seen many discussion about referendums on here, but I may be wrong. But thanks for the photo of your pantry.
Post by: Beachman on May 07, 2015, 11:42:41 AM
At a personal level I am agree with Capital Punishment, but only when there is NO doubt regarding the guilt. None of this beyond reasonable doubt crap. Sure, many innocent people have been executed, but cases like Hoddle Street, Bryant is Tasmania, and numerous other crimes where there is absolutely no doubt, whether the bastards are insane or not, we just don't need to waste money keeping them alive. And as a deterrant, if you are dead, it is unlikely you will re-offend. In cases like Lindy Chamberlain and other similar ones, any doubt and NO death sentence, sounds pretty simple to me.
Fully agree
Post by: Kangaron on May 07, 2015, 02:28:14 PM
Hasn't this been done to death and will end up as an argument and Shit again???
(http://www.kernelencorepopcorn.com/images/PopcornCups.jpg)
Optifast Popcorn???
Post by: Bird on May 07, 2015, 02:39:16 PM
hot air cooked...:P
Optifast Popcorn???
Post by: terravista on May 07, 2015, 03:12:58 PM
Optifast Popcorn???
Probably started out as a bag of kernels in Birds pocket until wayward flatulence added the right amount of heat. I have heard he's full of
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 07, 2015, 03:55:35 PM
Post by: D4D on May 07, 2015, 04:07:46 PM
Hmmm, this thread seems to going along swimmingly. ::)
Did you expect it to go any other way?
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 07, 2015, 04:43:28 PM
Post by: terravista on May 07, 2015, 07:06:15 PM
Is there a prize for the number of posts on this forum that is not advertised?
Post by: Barrabart on May 07, 2015, 07:26:59 PM
I reckon based on lack of input here by members on the forum that one of your "tick boxes" you mention has been ticked.......... Most average Aussies just don't give a ratse arse!!! ;D
One reason why i love this country. :cup:
Crikey, if voting wasn't compulsory, i reckon most Aussies wouldn't bother even with that..........
Post by: Mik01 on May 07, 2015, 07:52:16 PM
The Bali 9 thread has spread to a broader scene involving death penalties and a suggestion to have another dedicated thread just for death penalties.
This is not started to be that thread.
This one is about the too often repeated phrase "The overwhelming majority"... blah blah blah.
How the hell do the press, politicians and others come out with that drivel when no one has actually asked the overwhelming majority.
It is just like the noisy minority stuffing thier views down the throats of the silent majority.
We see a couple of thousand people including low talent musicians and actors (as if anyone cares what they think) protesting the Bali drug running criminals while the other 20 plus million Australians simply don't care. Same as three people felt sorry for Scapelle Corby, but the press kept waffling about the overwhelming majority wanted her back in Australia.
How about we just get a sheet of questions at the next election with a whole bunch of subjects with three boxes to each one. A Yes, a No, and a Don't give a rats arse boxes to tick with our somewhat outdated pencils.
These subjects could include things like Abortion, Capital Punishment, Same Sex Marriages, Level of Immigrants, Length of Political Terms, Abolition of State or Local Governments, Increasing the GST, Paid Maternity Leave, Free Childcare, Age of Retirement, Scrapping the Monarchy etc. etc.
This SHOULD be done with none of the Yes/No arguments we have to suffer through in a formal referendum, just get honest answers so the politicians can actually govern for the majority, not the noisy minority or rating seeking TV stations or press.
Now as far as the death penalty goes, if someone wants to start a dedicated thread, you can cut and paste the following on it:
At a personal level I am agree with Capital Punishment, but only when there is NO doubt regarding the guilt. None of this beyond reasonable doubt crap. Sure, many innocent people have been executed, but cases like Hoddle Street, Bryant is Tasmania, and numerous other crimes where there is absolutely no doubt, whether the bastards are insane or not, we just don't need to waste money keeping them alive. And as a deterrant, if you are dead, it is unlikely you will re-offend. In cases like Lindy Chamberlain and other similar ones, any doubt and NO death sentence, sounds pretty simple to me.
Maybe this should go in the rant thread, but just "having a rant" doesn't seem to be serious enough.
That was me that said overwhelming majority. Because it's true. We abolished the death penalty 50 years ago and that was because we as a nation did not want it. 50 years of modern society, and no thought from any political party of any persuasion to bring it back. No protests, no widespread evidenced based arguments for it, no debate among learned circles - just dog whistling.
I'd say that's a mandate for an overwhelming majority.
By the way, there is no 'doubt' in criminal law - you are either guilty beyond reasonable doubt, or innocent and acquitted. Lindy Chamberlain was found guilty, so as it has since been proven she didn't do it, and the cops framed the evidence and withheld key information, under your capital punishment model she would be dead.
I'm happy to cop the crap on here - but this is my last post on this subject as you don't want to argue facts, just taking shots at anyone who dissents. You are the noisy minority.
Post by: dales133 on May 07, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Things change
Post by: Banjo16 on May 07, 2015, 08:00:57 PM
Post by: JD-120 on May 07, 2015, 08:04:45 PM
Most average Aussies just don't give a ratse arse!!! ;DX2
I am most average Aussies
Post by: alnjan on May 07, 2015, 08:51:16 PM
Post by: dazzler on May 07, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
It is just like the noisy minority stuffing thier views down the throats of the silent majority.
A couple of things;
- social media is very influential and can engage people very fast. Like most things the poster uses emotion and one side of a story and people are easily influenced. Here is a perfect example - Our Australian of the Year is heavily involved in anti domestic violence and this is a great cause. She and her supporters use the death of her son at the hands of his father as domestic violence. But he died as a result of mental illness of his father. But try pointing that out on a FB post and you get howled down.
- The majority of the media are there to sell their wares and they sense the mood and sell to it. If theres no mood they create it. Those stupid ACA and Today Tonight are a classic at this.
- Most people only raise their voice for things that apply to them. Using your analogy none of us can complain about anything that we dont like (closing tracks for example) unless the majority of Australians agree.
- Most people couldnt be bothered improving their understanding of most issues and simply go with the sheep. T
As for the death penalty I dont agree with it simply because the cops can and do get it wrong (with or without the intent to do so).
But, I believe there should be an alternative to Gaol and the idea of the death penalty and that is something like "removal from society for life". I have no idea how this would really work but something like they are placed somewhere remote with very basic shelter and are supplied ration packs each month and simply live on their own and thats it. Get ill, deal with it. Injure yourself, deal with it.
When you die you die. Try and escape and you are shot.
On the US death penalty though its worth a look at those who have been executed of late. There are so sick sick puppies that have done some sick crap and probably deserve it.
Post by: dales133 on May 07, 2015, 11:23:29 PM
It cost something like 250,000 a year to keep scum like him in prison a year on average and there are plenty more deserving people in need of money in society.
Cost a dollar to shoot the prick
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 08, 2015, 04:38:20 AM
This thread may well die an early death, but between D4D and Jeepers combined we have over 15 000 posts, yet no positive contribution to this one .
Is there a prize for the number of posts on this forum that is not advertised?
Why are you talking about prizes for the number of posts on the forum?
If there is a prize, which I doubt, what is it?
Post by: terravista on May 08, 2015, 08:48:41 AM
Why are you talking about prizes for the number of posts on the forum?
If there is a prize, which I doubt, what is it?
I asked the question because there seems to be a lot of posts that don't have any relevance to the original topic, and it was a question because I don't have any answer.
If a thread is started about what can be seen as a controversial subject there is often posts about popcorn or sitting back and watching the potential fireworks.
I don't see why anyone not interested in offering views/help/suggestions etc, wouldn't just not make any response at all, hence the query.
Cheers
Post by: robbo1172 on May 08, 2015, 10:10:56 AM
But, I believe there should be an alternative to Gaol and the idea of the death penalty and that is something like "removal from society for life". I have no idea how this would really work but something like they are placed somewhere remote with very basic shelter and are supplied ration packs each month and simply live on their own and thats it. Get ill, deal with it. Injure yourself, deal with it.
A bit like the first English convicts sent to Australia? :)
Post by: Bird on May 08, 2015, 12:17:01 PM
Quote from: dazzler
On the US death penalty though its worth a look at those who have been executed of late. There are so sick sick puppies that have done some sick crap and probably deserve it.come and join up at cncpunisment forum... :)
Post by: dazzler on May 08, 2015, 12:52:58 PM
I don't see why anyone not interested in offering views/help/suggestions etc, wouldn't just not make any response at all, hence the query.
Cheers
Generally those who get upset lack the ability to argue their position or are wedded to beliefs they are too scared to look at critically.
Post by: dazzler on May 08, 2015, 12:54:39 PM
A bit like the first English convicts sent to Australia? :)
Kind of. Remember the last place they end up in in Papillion. Here's your spot, we'll leave you alone, out of sight out of mind.
Post by: Bird on May 08, 2015, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: dazzler
Here's your spot, we'll leave you alone, out of sight out of mind.what exactly will it achieve?
Post by: dazzler on May 08, 2015, 01:44:06 PM
what exactly will it achieve?
Have a few stabs in the dark. I am sure it's not that obscure.
Post by: edz on May 08, 2015, 02:26:51 PM
Post by: Bird on May 08, 2015, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: dazzler
Have a few stabs in the dark. I am sure it's not that obscure.
pretty much letting people go ??? Good idea though it will clear the courts of anything above parking fine.
Sherriff Joe FTW!!!!
(http://jarkesypolitical.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Sheriff-Joe-Arpaio-620x465.jpg)
Post by: Bill on May 09, 2015, 09:08:46 PM
I often wonder this myself...
I asked the question because there seems to be a lot of posts that don't have any relevance to the original topic, and it was a question because I don't have any answer.
If a thread is started about what can be seen as a controversial subject there is often posts about popcorn or sitting back and watching the potential fireworks.
I don't see why anyone not interested in offering views/help/suggestions etc, wouldn't just not make any response at all, hence the query.
Cheers
Bill
Post by: rexy03 on May 10, 2015, 07:24:00 AM
Frank Zappa
Post by: kylarama on May 10, 2015, 07:32:16 AM
A bit like the first English convicts sent to Australia? :)
Problem with that is, years later they'll return and beat you at cricket. :D
Post by: achjimmy on May 10, 2015, 09:31:13 AM
Before the Bali nine's arrest, Mick Keelty and the AFP sent a furniture salesman on a secret high-risk drug sting in Indonesia
http://www.smh.com.au/national/before-the-bali-nines-arrest-mick-keelty-and-the-afp-sent-a-furniture-salesman-on-a-secret-highrisk-drug-sting-in-indonesia-20150509-ggwxt4.html (http://www.smh.com.au/national/before-the-bali-nines-arrest-mick-keelty-and-the-afp-sent-a-furniture-salesman-on-a-secret-highrisk-drug-sting-in-indonesia-20150509-ggwxt4.html)
Post by: dazzler on May 10, 2015, 12:26:54 PM
Furniture man was a player who got cold feet.
Went to the cops.
Cops used him as a human source to get intel.
Furniture man was more involved than he let on.
AFP backed off in Indonesia (obviously the gig was up as the importer was onto them).
The goods weren't collected at port.
The dog nuts stand out is that drug importation syndicates don't approach someone to help them import UNLESS they know them, trust them or have something over them. The AFP cant organise illegal operations overseas and he would have known he was on his own if it went pair shaped.
The AFP are seriously risk averse so would hang anyone out to dry to protect themselves or the govt they are in bed with.
Post by: dales133 on May 10, 2015, 01:54:28 PM
In saying that he may not have been "involved with them but if not they had leverage of some kind, even if they had to force trust upon him