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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: fuji on December 02, 2014, 03:27:28 PM

Title: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: fuji on December 02, 2014, 03:27:28 PM
Apologies if this has been mentioned before.
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/vehicle-safety/fog-and-driving-lights (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/vehicle-safety/fog-and-driving-lights)
fuji
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 03:48:29 PM
Good info.


So when are you guys gonna start busting those who run around with fog lights on all day or at night when conditions are fine, not raining and foggy?  8)

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Kangaron on December 02, 2014, 03:50:31 PM
Is that telling me that you can turn on high beam in a built up area?
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: #jonesy on December 02, 2014, 03:53:29 PM
I said I was going to put post it!
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: evolution on December 02, 2014, 03:56:15 PM
As Victoria’s in-service vehicle standards mirror the Australian Design Rule requirements this decision means that LED light bars can be fitted to vehicles in Victoria.  Constraints remain on the fitment of LED light bars, so any LED light bar that is fitted must be installed in alignment with the following requirements:

The lamps should, as far as is possible, be installed symmetrically in pairs to the front of the vehicle.

If lamps are not fitted as pairs (e.g. one, three etc), they must be fitted to the front of the vehicle, symmetrically about the centre.

A maximum of four driving lamps (including LED light bars) can be fitted to a vehicle in addition to the vehicle’s main beam headlamps.

The lamp/s must be installed in a way that the light produced does not cause the driver of the vehicle discomfort either directly or by reflection.

The lamp/s must only come on when the main-beam (high beam) headlamps are used, and must automatically turn off when the main-beam headlamps are turned off.

The lamps must not obstruct the driver’s view of the road.



So basically it is now legitimizing what most Vic pol have been enforcing? When I was pulled over for the lights on the patrol, all he stated about the lights on the roof was that I had FAR too many lights forward facing lol.
Nothing stated as such about the fact they were on the roof?

Great to know Vicroads have finally caught up though!  :cup: Thanks for sharing mate, I am sure many appreciate it  ;D

Cheers
Evo

Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: WilSurf on December 02, 2014, 04:11:22 PM
So when are you guys gonna start busting those who run around with fog lights on all day or at night when conditions are fine, not raining and foggy?  8)


Totally agree with you mate.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Moggy on December 02, 2014, 05:28:49 PM
Good info.


So when are you guys gonna start busting those who run around with fog lights on all day or at night when conditions are fine, not raining and foggy?  8)

 :cheers:
Why ???
What does it matter? Its not like fog lights will blind you

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: GeoffA on December 02, 2014, 05:35:18 PM
Why ???
What does it matter? Its not like fog lights will blind you

I agree. They never bother me either. I've never understood the fuss.

(Mine are off, btw)
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 05:51:08 PM
Why ???
What does it matter? Its not like fog lights will blind you

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Becoz half the bogans in Vic drive around with both their fog lights and headlights on low beam on, which is not what they are supposed to do. Fog lights should only be operated by themselves, with no headlight showing,  And, half the fog lights cum pseudo driving lights fitted to jap vehicles are exceedingly bright.

 >:(
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 05:52:14 PM
I agree. They never bother me either. I've never understood the fuss.

(Mine are off, btw)

And you are a bit higher than me when I drive the sedan!

 ;D
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Moggy on December 02, 2014, 05:56:27 PM
Becoz half the bogans in Vic drive around with both their fog lights and headlights on low beam on, which is not what they are supposed to do. Fog lights should only be operated by themselves, with no headlight showing,  And, half the fog lights cum pseudo driving lights fitted to jap vehicles are exceedingly bright.

 >:(
Again I'm not sure why it matters???
If at night they have to have headlights on anyway & if at daytime then how is it any different to the DRL's a lot of cars have.
I thought there was a road safety campaign encouraging people to have lights on during day, there is up here anyway

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: rags on December 02, 2014, 06:08:00 PM
Becoz half the bogans in Vic drive around with both their fog lights and headlights on low beam on, which is not what they are supposed to do. Fog lights should only be operated by themselves, with no headlight showing,   

 >:(

Fog lights can only be used with the headlights on, and this is how every car,4wd are fitted and wired when leaving the factory ,they need the headlights turned on to function and won't work without the headlights on be that parkers or low beam or high beam.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: McGirr on December 02, 2014, 06:15:00 PM

Waiting for Xmas orders now  ;D

Mark
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 06:25:22 PM
Fog lights can only be used with the headlights on, and this is how every car,4wd are fitted and wired when leaving the factory ,they need the headlights turned on to function and won't work without the headlights on be that parkers or low beam or high beam.

Did you read fujis link?
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: GGV8Cruza on December 02, 2014, 06:34:15 PM
Waiting for Xmas orders now  ;D

Mark

I have my full quota on the front now, maybe I need one for the back to miss those darn trees  ;D

GG
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: GeoffA on December 02, 2014, 06:35:46 PM
And you are a bit higher than me when I drive the sedan!

 ;D

Nah, doesn't matter what car I'm in Al.

Fog lights are (supposed to be) designed to cut under the fog.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 06:39:28 PM
Did you read fujis link?

If you did, you will see it said fogs must operate independently of dipped and high beam.

My last Holden, a 2004 SS had the fog light option. They operated once the switch was set to park. They also remained on if the beam was set to both dip or high.

I frankly got sick of bogans  leaving them on, particularly at dusk on country roads. When you get to 60 and your eyesight capacity deminishes it may become apparent why they should only be used when it's foggy!
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 06:40:36 PM
Nah, doesn't matter what car I'm in Al.

Fog lights are (supposed to be) designed to cut under the fog.

 ;D

But I'm older than you!

And half the cars out there have white fog lights, not yellow!
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: jwb on December 02, 2014, 06:41:16 PM
Fog lights can only be used with the headlights on, and this is how every car,4wd are fitted and wired when leaving the factory ,they need the headlights turned on to function and won't work without the headlights on be that parkers or low beam or high beam.
They can be turned on without using the headlights on my 150 ?
Not that I use them
Detest the overuse of the things myself????
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 06:42:36 PM
And that's my rant.

No worries down here tho, havnt had a problem with all the nice tassie drivers, they are very considerate once you have a car with tassie plates. It's the Vic ones they give grief!

 ;D
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: GeoffA on December 02, 2014, 06:47:49 PM
And that's my rant......

I reckon that's the guts of it......it's become a rant (not directed at you specifically, Al).

Apart from the legalities, they really don't create that big an issue....IMHO.

....and mine are always off.... ;D
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 06:56:46 PM
Germany has it right.

http://www.euroadlegal.co.uk/country/germany.html (http://www.euroadlegal.co.uk/country/germany.html)

Only to be used at speeds under 50kph when conditions require.

And where's Fuji! Trust him to post and run!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: GeoffA on December 02, 2014, 07:03:05 PM
........
The lamp/s must only come on when the main-beam (high beam) headlamps are used, and must automatically turn off when the main-beam headlamps are turned off.
........

Nothing about a separate isolation switch?
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: GeoffA on December 02, 2014, 07:05:31 PM
Germany has it right.

http://www.euroadlegal.co.uk/country/germany.html (http://www.euroadlegal.co.uk/country/germany.html)

Only to be used at speeds under 50kph when conditions require.

And where's Fuji! Trust him to post and run!

 :cheers:


Unless I've missed something Al, the German regs only say when fog lights must be used, not when they must not.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 07:15:07 PM
Unless I've missed something Al, the German regs only say when fog lights must be used, not when they must not.
It's all in the interpretation pal, we need a craut Fuji as a member to answer that one!

 ;D
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: rags on December 02, 2014, 07:35:00 PM
Did you read fujis link?

yes I did read it and spend part of my working days reading, reviewing or amending policy type documents [ in another field ]and find that any document needs to be read carefully, I  copied the relevant  part of the posted link document below
copy text
Front fog lights are designed to better illuminate the road in fog, snowfall, rainstorms or dust clouds. They can be recognised by the low, narrow vertical pattern (and wide lateral spread) of light emitted.

Road Rule 217 states that drivers must not use front or rear fog lights unless driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions that cause reduced visibility. They must be switched on separate from the main beam (high beam) and dipped beam (passing) headlights.

Fog lights should only be used in hazardous weather conditions. Drivers should familiarise themselves with the dashboard warning symbols so that they do not inadvertently switch these lights on.
end  copy text

As stated above the fog lights must be switched separate to the main beam ,which is how they are done on the 5 cars that reside in my drive ,2 mazdas ,1 Suzuki,1 Toyota and a ford. These cars all left the factory with factory fitted fogs and all can be turned on inconjunction with any other light beam but also can be used with out the main headlights on [which I originally incorrectly said was not possible]. The above ADR 217 only says that need to be switched separately from the main beams, however it does not say that the fogs need to function separately from the main beam or cannot be used in conjunction to the main lights. Which is how vehicle manufacturers fit the fog lights in compliance to the ADR. If it was to infer that the fogs could only work or be used without the main lights then this would have been included in the prescriptive text and you would also find then that the cars would function that way ex factory. Yet it only says that they should be used in hazardous conditions [which is where a previous post was pointing out that the "bogan" don't follow this rule and drive round on the sunniest of days with the fogs on]. Yet the ADR are then quite specific with high beam driving lights in that they should only function in conjunction with the high beam [or main beam as it is reference]

quote text
Driving lights are designed to illuminate the road over a long distance for example country areas. They must be wired such that they only switch on with the main beam (high beam) head light. They emit the same lighting pattern as a main beam and are used as a supplementary light.
end of quote text.
regards Rags
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 07:39:45 PM
I agree with all you say and note you corrected your error.

I work in a similar role.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: fuji on December 02, 2014, 08:33:52 PM
I said I was going to put post it!


Sorry BJ, I didn't realise you were going to post it.
Okay everybody my apologies to Jonesy as he originally found this article and emailed it to me and I posted it. My bad. :'(
Driving with fog lights on is not on my priority booking list. They will get booked if the fog lights are blinding to other road users.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 08:42:38 PM
Don't worry pal, would have ended up the same!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: fuji on December 02, 2014, 08:43:48 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: #jonesy on December 02, 2014, 09:02:50 PM
To explain fog lights what the link shows is a simplified explanation of the ADR (riveting read)

Basically they need to be switched independently of the headlights. So when you switch headlights hi,low or off it doesn't effect the fog lights and vice versa.

The other requirements is that when the fog lights are on the park, tail and number plate lights come on. So the fog lights will turn off when the lights are fully turned off.

The ones I hate are the rear fogs because they overpower the brake lights.

Fuji no worries I did a quick search before starting a thread in the technical section before I saw this one.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Mace on December 02, 2014, 09:10:58 PM
To explain fog lights what the link shows is a simplified explanation of the ADR (riveting read)

Basically they need to be switched independently of the headlights. So when you switch headlights hi,low or off it doesn't effect the fog lights and vice versa.

Agree.

But when I was young the etiquette was that if you had fog lights on you turned all others other than parking lights off becoz the conditions you were  driving in was usually low speed in country gravel,roads.

That's it, I'm out!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: achjimmy on December 03, 2014, 05:59:48 AM
Agree.

But when I was young the etiquette was that if you had fog lights on you turned all others other than parking lights off becoz the conditions you were  driving in was usually low speed in country gravel,roads.

That's it, I'm out!

 :cheers:

Mace is correct. I still remember the rotary switch on an old English car my folks had. It was labelled OSHF which was off, side lights, head lights, fog lights.   When you spun around to fog it turn the heads off.   The belief in Europe was that the headlights reflect and blind you in fog and you only need the lower YELLOW fog light
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Snow on December 03, 2014, 07:10:28 AM
Straight from the NSW RMS website; http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/lights-and-horns.html (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/lights-and-horns.html)

"Front and rear fog lights must only be used in fog or rain, or when conditions such as smoke and dust limit your vision. It is a legal requirement that once conditions improve and you can see more clearly, the front and rear fog lights are switched off."

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: WilSurf on December 03, 2014, 09:43:52 AM
The rules in Holland regarding the fog lights are that they can only be used when visibility is less then 200 meters. Rear fog light less then 50 meters and NOT in the rain.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: briann532 on December 03, 2014, 02:14:00 PM
Straight from the NSW RMS website; http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/lights-and-horns.html (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/lights-and-horns.html)

"Front and rear fog lights must only be used in fog or rain, or when conditions such as smoke and dust limit your vision. It is a legal requirement that once conditions improve and you can see more clearly, the front and rear fog lights are switched off."

 :cheers:


Snow.

What happens if they are labelled as "driving" lights???

I too am sick of the w@nkers who blind you with upgraded lights, fog lights and driving lights aimed badly in your face, when it is as clear as day with no visibility issues.
Its no different to me wearing a roofers harness while walking around a shopping centre on flat ground. You just look like a plonker and pee people off.
Same old same old. Inconsiderate twats not considering others.

And while I'm on the rant, FFS don't "P" platers know its illegal to put nice blue leds on the front of your car????
 :police: :police: :police: :police: :police:
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Snow on December 03, 2014, 02:23:22 PM
Snow.

What happens if they are labelled as "driving" lights???



Labelled by who? Those that would seek to duck the reality that it is illegal to use them for other than their legal intended use.

Objective evidence is that the intended use and the name of the lights is described by the manufacturer in the vehicle owners manual.

IMO, any other descriptors for factory fitted fog lights are irrelevant.
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: fuji on December 03, 2014, 08:38:52 PM
If it ain't foggy or persisting down with rain, leave the bloody things off. ;D
Title: Re: Light bars no longer required to be in pairs.
Post by: Bad Scott on December 03, 2014, 09:29:26 PM
If I remember correctly. Its a $300 fine having fog lights on, when road conditions are fine. This was a couple years ago by the local  :police: in Horsham.