Post by: Jakster1 on August 19, 2014, 09:30:49 PM
IMO most new "4WDs" are closer to an SUV than a 4WD( or is that truck) ???
Post by: scarps on August 19, 2014, 09:35:53 PM
Post by: Ratbag on August 19, 2014, 09:42:44 PM
Some passenger vehicles have this (a real rarity these days), but they are still designated as passenger vehicles.
Post by: Pog on August 19, 2014, 09:50:02 PM
Post by: slcs78 on August 19, 2014, 09:52:10 PM
I understand that Nissan XTrail is a 4WD. The badge on the back confirms it.
Actually had the wifes XTRAIL out on Stockton for a day and it was fine (apart from all the plastic guards underneath that got ripped off that I never told her about :laugh:). As for most SUVs these days they are AWD, which means they are FWD until they lose traction which by that time its all too late
Post by: Jakster1 on August 19, 2014, 09:55:22 PM
I understand that Nissan XTrail is a 4WD. The badge on the back confirms it.
Exactly!
NISSAN have a lot to answer for with their old (years ago) X - trail advertising campaign where they were driving it through the sea water and getting air over trail humps.
I rented one once in NT and tried the things that I saw them do on the ads. Lets just say I'm glad It was still in one piece when it got returned.
Post by: Landyline on August 19, 2014, 10:01:15 PM
It would also need to lock the drive front to rear. However this would exclude some Jeeps and I think the early Ford Explorer.
If the vehicle required a chassis that would exclude many current and past vehicles including Pajero, Cherokee, various Subarus and even Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover don't have a traditional chassis anymore.
The line is being blurred further with every model year.
One thing I'd like to do though is shoot the person who brought the term SUV to Australia. I use soft roader which was a common term once but seems to have been replaced by SUV in the media. Probably so they can pretend a Rav4 is a monster truck and not a Corolla with bigger wheels.
Post by: kylarama on August 19, 2014, 10:11:43 PM
Post by: whitey1 on August 20, 2014, 07:31:42 AM
Post by: Aaron Schubert on August 20, 2014, 08:07:42 AM
Aaron
Post by: cm4x4nut on August 20, 2014, 08:30:53 AM
Post by: Malcolm Tugless on August 20, 2014, 08:43:39 AM
If its got a "my family" arrangement on the back then it definitely not a 4WD ... unless the dad sticker has a mullet that is.
I think the actual answer may be in the low range.
Post by: mrdenn1s on August 20, 2014, 08:54:47 AM
Post by: Ratbag on August 20, 2014, 09:08:21 AM
When it has a full chassis that extends the entire length/width of the vehicle, that can have a variety of bodies and accessories bolted on to it, mostly separately articulated; and it's primary purpose is the carriage of goods.
When I replied to this last night while mostly brain dead, I mentally substituted the words "4WD" for "SUV" and "truck" for "4WD" ... DOH!
Of course what many have said here is correct. There are many "SUV" (I also prefer the term "soft-roader") vehicles that are 2WD, or only have 4WD/AWD on demand. This is usually about 1/2 second too late, as someone has already mentioned.
Constant AWD vehicles are a whole other kettle of fish - e.g. Audi Quattro diesels, Subaru Foresters (in particular), and a whole swag of vehicles that run free-wheeling front hubs to improve fuel consumption from downright lousy to barely acceptable - had those on my '68 LC ... :). With my FWH, I had to stop, get out, manually engage them, then proceed. That didn't make my (light) truck, any less of a 4WD, or any less of a primitive light truck ...
My Forester (2006) has a theoretical torque split of 50:50 F:R. It probably only does this very occasionally, and then probably only on the way through, on a straight bitumen road ... ;). It is normally constantly variable between 60:40 and 40:60, but will vary this too if subjected to extreme conditions. It has a viscous LSD in the centre, and a vLSD in the rear.
My Forester has a 5MT box with full synchro HR/LR. The Subaru OM tells me not to exceed 188 kmh in 5th/LR ... ;).
The car has a theoretical top speed of about 213 kmh (5600 rpm at maximum power, translated into kmh in 5th/HR), but is speed limited by the ECU to 198 kmh.
Some members over at the ORS forum have modified Foresters with a 3.0L H6 engine fitted and engineered, DCCD centre diff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential#Electronic), plated rear diff and Torsen helical diff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen) in the front (the front diff is part of the gearbox in Subies). The standard setup works brilliantly for me, but I'm not into doing the ultimate off-road thing. Did all that when I was a lot younger, and have no need or desire to re-live my misspent youth ... ROTFL!
More or less back on topic, a friend has a Suzuki Grand Vitara. While it is very similar on the surface to my Forester, that's where the similarity ends. The Zook is basically a Mack truck that's been washed and left out in the sun to shrink, while mine is basically a high speed rally car that's been tricked up to look like a (relatively) small off-roader (I can't bring myself to think of a car that weighs nearly 1.5 tonnes as "small"!). The Zook has all sorts of truck type features under it's skin, mine hasn't. However I drive my car whenever me and my mate go out photographing together, and he reckons that other than robustness, the Forester beats the crap out of his Zook for everything else, and at least equals it for off-road stuff. He prefers not to drive, these days, and is prepared not to sh!t himself when subjected to my sometimes quite 'spirited' driving ... ;) ;D 8) .
Get into my SWMBO's 2009 SH Forester and the game changes again. It has the same engine as mine (EJ-253), but uses the Subaru 4EAT transmission. This came in two flavours - standard 4EAT and "Sportshift" 4EAT. The Sportshift uses the ProDrive technology for the TCU under licence and a different kind of clutch pack in the centre diff. It does not use a vLSD in the centre diff. It also has both the rear vLSD and EBD plus VDC. With the ProDrive TCU, one can drive it like a manual without wrecking the transmission ... She doesn't, of course! The VDC can and should be switched off when on dirt or off-road, and Subaru recommends this. It doesn't change lots of what it does, but it does tell the vehicle to forget about stability and concentrate on traction. Apparently this works very well in dirt and off-road situations - something my wife is yet to do, and probably never will ... ;).
People should also bear in mind that some highly capable 4WD/AWD have auto boxes, so have no need of a LR gear set ...
Post by: achjimmy on August 20, 2014, 09:27:23 AM
Do we really need to go here as well, surely the 4WD / Truck thread covers this off without starting another one ???
X 1324245255256262
Post by: Jakster1 on August 20, 2014, 09:45:39 AM
Do we really need to go here as well, surely the 4WD / Truck thread covers this off without starting another one ???
To me an SUV, a 4WD and a truck are completely different things.
Many people call their 4wds trucks and on the other hand call their SUVs... A 4wd
Really, how many here drive a truck?
I'd say most have an SUV or a 4wd.
I'm interested in seeing the responses from the people that actually own the vehicles and their perception how they see it.
it's more than just having low range. I have a 2wd drive vehicle that has low range and rear diff lock and it goes everywhere most 4wds can go. Dosent make it a 4wd tho
Post by: oldmate on August 20, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
Post by: oldmate on August 20, 2014, 11:09:35 AM
it's more than just having low range. I have a 2wd drive vehicle that has low range and rear diff lock and it goes everywhere most 4wds can go. Dosent make it a 4wd tho
You just said it though. It's a 2 wheel drive so why would you refer to it as a 4wd, doesn't make sense. If it has drive to all 4wheels, and low range it a 4wd. Some are soft and some a hard. Unless you drive a patrol you fall into the soft category. There that get the conversation going. Lol
Post by: loanrangie on August 20, 2014, 01:26:06 PM
Post by: Jakster1 on August 20, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
You just said it though. It's a 2 wheel drive so why would you refer to it as a 4wd, doesn't make sense. If it has drive to all 4wheels, and low range it a 4wd. Some are soft and some a hard. Unless you drive a patrol you fall into the soft category. There that get the conversation going. Lol
Some replied "low range" makes a 4wd
It has low range.... but is a 2wd so low range alone cannot make a vehicle a 4wd
Agree with the patrol comment. :cheers:
All the people getting upset must be SUV drivers
Post by: Ratbag on August 20, 2014, 03:21:14 PM
It works very well for my use/s, and that's all that matters to me :cheers: :cup: .
Post by: oldmate on August 20, 2014, 04:42:28 PM
Personally, I couldn't care one hair on a bullock's bum what someone wants to call the car I drive ;D 8) .
It works very well for my use/s, and that's all that matters to me :cheers: :cup: .
:cup: And thats all that matters to anyone :cheers:
Post by: Landyline on August 20, 2014, 06:19:34 PM
Some replied "low range" makes a 4wd
It has low range.... but is a 2wd so low range alone cannot make a vehicle a 4wd
Agree with the patrol comment. :cheers:
All the people getting upset must be SUV drivers
I think you will find that given people are talking Four Wheel Drives that driving all four wheels is a given
Post by: Elky on August 20, 2014, 06:35:42 PM
the new cherokee is east/west......pretty shocking considering it's forebears were proper offroaders ditto the pathfinder
cheers
Post by: speewa158 on August 20, 2014, 06:39:26 PM
I reckon a 4wd must have low range. Preferably engaged by moving a lever! Not fiddling with knobs!
lf fiddling with knobs is your go then you will fit in well here :cheers:
Post by: GUEY on August 20, 2014, 06:58:54 PM
;D :cheers: ;D
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 20, 2014, 07:18:49 PM
Post by: alnjan on August 20, 2014, 07:30:23 PM
Post by: oldmate on August 20, 2014, 07:35:58 PM
Post by: Clouty on August 20, 2014, 07:37:30 PM
Post by: oldmate on August 20, 2014, 07:38:19 PM
Post by: Clouty on August 20, 2014, 07:42:08 PM
Post by: oldmate on August 20, 2014, 07:42:49 PM
That's easy, when you put the groceries in the back, lucky you got a lift lol
Post by: Clouty on August 20, 2014, 07:44:45 PM
Post by: JD-120 on August 20, 2014, 08:56:45 PM
Post by: Murph on August 20, 2014, 09:31:01 PM
Post by: mike and tracy davis on August 22, 2014, 09:41:52 PM
Cheers Mike
Post by: johnyd on August 23, 2014, 03:42:37 PM
pretend Rav4 is a monster truck and not a Corolla with bigger wheels.
I thought I was the only one that called SUVs by the manufacturers beep beep name.
I called the parents Captiva a Barina all the time
Post by: clae81 on August 23, 2014, 09:31:46 PM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Beatle on August 23, 2014, 10:25:36 PM
Post by: oldmate on August 23, 2014, 10:32:58 PM
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss315/lux77_photos/imagejpg1_zps30dbfb83.jpg)
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 24, 2014, 04:45:49 AM
Post by: Diesel Power on August 24, 2014, 06:55:01 AM
When it has a full chassis that extends the entire length/width of the vehicle, that can have a variety of bodies and accessories bolted on to it, mostly separately articulated; and it's primary purpose is the carriage of goods.
Some passenger vehicles have this (a real rarity these days), but they are still designated as passenger vehicles.
Does that include Pajero?
Regards
Post by: oldmate on August 24, 2014, 07:08:03 AM
the Bruce Hwy...
:cup: :cup: :cup:
Post by: oldmate on August 24, 2014, 07:09:14 AM
Does that include Pajero?
Regards
Guess not going by that description. Or some jeeps
Post by: akarosco on October 16, 2015, 02:53:48 PM
When its got a "southern cross" sticker stuck on the rear window, right next to the "love it or leave it" or "sorry we're full" one.
Pretty sure those stickers state the owner/driver is simply a xenophobic bogan
Post by: prodigyrf on October 16, 2015, 03:38:42 PM
Post by: Peter The Greek on October 16, 2015, 03:53:22 PM
When its got a "southern cross" sticker stuck on the rear window, right next to the "love it or leave it" or "sorry we're full" one.
If its got a "my family" arrangement on the back then it definitely not a 4WD ... unless the dad sticker has a mullet that is.
BAHAHAHAH! classic. :D
Post by: stabicraft on October 16, 2015, 04:28:08 PM
I purchased it for its 4WD capability on boat ramps and guess what?........It actually works.
Would I go off road with the serious 4WDs?.............not on your Nelly.
But if you are speaking about Real Men's 4WDs you need to look at some of the extreme vehicles running around.
No Patrol, Pathfinder or Land Cruiser has a chance in hell of competing with these mean machines,
so does that make them "Not real 4WD's?"
I have watched a friend I know climb boulders, that I couldn't get up without a rope, in his beast.
I have seen it ford streams that Cruisers or Patrols would would wet their pants just looking at.
Lets not get into the "Real 4WD vs the Fake 4WD" because its all about the purpose of the vehicle, which is to tow.
Besides, an X Trail, with a few thou spent on it could match the big boys.
Post by: speewa158 on October 16, 2015, 04:56:44 PM
Don't truck with me or l will have you parked up big time >:D :cup: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Post by: prodigyrf on October 16, 2015, 05:13:55 PM
Lets not get into the "Real 4WD vs the Fake 4WD" because its all about the purpose of the vehicle, which is to tow.
Besides, an X Trail, with a few thou spent on it could match the big boys.
Well a Ford Falcon can tow -
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/top-10-vehicles-for-towing-12094 (http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/top-10-vehicles-for-towing-12094)
and a Suzuki Jimny might thrash the big boys solo in certain rough stuff without a few thou spent on it so where does that leave us?
Post by: Spud7017 on October 16, 2015, 08:58:23 PM
Yeah but it's been covered before, and I've seen plenty of real 4wds get stuck on the beach or going up a grassy slippery hill, so why does it matter?
Well said...........
Post by: me217 on October 17, 2015, 03:47:38 PM
Post by: plusnq on October 17, 2015, 03:52:25 PM
ive got a suzuki grand vitara and i consider it a 4wd as it has a lever operating transfer case, and a proper low range. to me, if it doesnt have low range and a proper transfer case, then it isnt a 4wd its a big car. its also the same reason we looked at the suzuki. as its the only small 4wd in its range that actually has a full chassis and low range. my sister had a mazda tribute which she was certain it was a 4wd, until she took it up the beach and cooked the gearbox.
The old vitara was a good little bus. But is the Amarok not a 4WD as it doesn't have a dedicated low range? I can see the day with ten speed auto boxes and no low range selection, just ultra low gears in the first three.
Post by: GeoffA on October 17, 2015, 04:38:33 PM
Everything else is just marketing and semantics.......
:cheers:
Post by: oldmate on October 17, 2015, 05:02:27 PM
The old vitara was a good little bus. But is the Amarok not a 4WD as it doesn't have a dedicated low range? I can see the day with ten speed auto boxes and no low range selection, just ultra low gears in the first three.
nah its a VW! thats a whole other thread. lol ;D ;D
Post by: Aussie Iron on October 17, 2015, 05:31:48 PM
Dan.
Post by: Sixpack on October 17, 2015, 05:36:12 PM
Post by: GeoffA on October 17, 2015, 05:38:55 PM
I cant believe this has actually got to page 3. As Speewa158 would say "Who gives a Truck".
Some obviously do......
Post by: cruiser 91 on October 17, 2015, 06:06:05 PM
I think I'm going to spoil the party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No 4wd is a true 4wd drive unless you have center diff lock and front and rear lockers.
Sorry, but 4wd's even with just center diff lock are not true 4wd's. You will notice in uneven ruts that even with diff lock on it's 2wd. Power will go to the wheel with the least amount of resistance in both diffs, meaning if one wheel on the same diff is in the air and the other is stuck in a hole, the wheel in the air will turn and the one in the hole wont.................unless you have true 4wd...............lockers!
Car's are really one wheel drive unless you have a 9in.
Thats my nob take for the arvo :) 6 beers so far
Post by: GeoffA on October 17, 2015, 06:09:25 PM
Post by: cruiser 91 on October 17, 2015, 06:11:53 PM
Some just enjoy an argument..... ;D
And love 4wding :4x4:
Post by: GeoffA on October 17, 2015, 06:14:00 PM
......6 beers so far
A slow day??
If one wheel is in the air, and it's still moving, then clearly it's a 3WD...... ;D ;D
:cheers:
Post by: cruiser 91 on October 17, 2015, 06:15:47 PM
Post by: plusnq on October 17, 2015, 06:19:33 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
I think I'm going to spoil the party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No 4wd is a true 4wd drive unless you have center diff lock and front and rear lockers.
Sorry, but 4wd's even with just center diff lock are not true 4wd's. You will notice in uneven ruts that even with diff lock on it's 2wd. Power will go to the wheel with the least amount of resistance in both diffs, meaning if one wheel on the same diff is in the air and the other is stuck in a hole, the wheel in the air will turn and the one in the hole wont.................unless you have true 4wd...............lockers!
Car's are really one wheel drive unless you have a 9in.
Thats my nob take for the arvo :) 6 beers so far
Traction control systems ?
Post by: plusnq on October 17, 2015, 07:19:14 PM
A slow day??
If one wheel is in the air, and it's still moving, then clearly it's a 3WD...... ;D ;D
:cheers:
Is it called a Morgan then?
Post by: GeoffA on October 17, 2015, 07:21:57 PM
Is it called a Morgan then?
Or a Messerschmitt.... ;D
Post by: plusnq on October 17, 2015, 07:25:38 PM
Post by: oldmate on October 17, 2015, 07:46:41 PM
So does that make my Canter a Truck or a 4WD? Yes it has low range and a lower ratio first gear that is only used when you need to crawl.
Dan.
it makes that awesome lol
Post by: KingBilly on October 17, 2015, 07:53:45 PM
So does that make my Canter a Truck or a 4WD?
Just makes me jealous that I don't have one :D
KB
Post by: prodigyrf on October 17, 2015, 10:33:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZKqhvch3mU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZKqhvch3mU)
Post by: plusnq on October 18, 2015, 04:25:49 AM
There's only one way to settle this-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZKqhvch3mU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZKqhvch3mU)
Balls of steel. Awesome
Post by: speewa158 on October 18, 2015, 06:11:02 AM
Post by: kylarama on October 18, 2015, 06:15:42 AM
Looks like pickup time at any primary school in the country ??? >:D >:D :cheers:
Drop offs worse. Mother of 3 running late in an 'SUV' = get out of the way...
Post by: plusnq on October 18, 2015, 08:11:04 AM
Drop offs worse. Mother of 3 running late in an 'SUV' = get out of the way...
I think we all know who to put in the tanks when the war starts ;D ;D ;D
Post by: prodigyrf on October 18, 2015, 08:33:52 AM
Looks like pickup time at any primary school in the country ??? >:D >:D :cheers:Pickup time when every sane tradey is safely packed up at home or decided to make a long day of it on the job. :cheers:
Post by: Jackdawg on October 18, 2015, 05:23:31 PM
When it has 4wd high and 4wd low range and 2wd options, decent clearance, good horse power, all metal panels - then it is a genuine off road vehicle.
Post by: akarosco on October 18, 2015, 09:43:10 PM
If the motor can drive all 4 wheels it is a 4WD.Well my Amarok has eight forward gears AND does it with fewer gear levers.
When it has 4wd high and 4wd low range and 2wd options, decent clearance, good horse power, all metal panels - then it is a genuine off road vehicle.
That's gotta be hard to beat.
Relax, put the diff lock on, climb another sand dune & enjoy the view.
Post by: dales133 on October 18, 2015, 09:46:16 PM
Well my Amarok has eight forward gears AND does it with fewer gear levers.Theres only 6 gears,the other 2 only work on test drives...
That's gotta be hard to beat.
Relax, put the diff lock on, climb another sand dune & enjoy the view.
Post by: akarosco on October 19, 2015, 07:46:22 AM
Theres only 6 gears,the other 2 only work on test drives...How do you figure that?
Relax, put the diff lock on, climb another sand dune & enjoy the view.
Post by: scblack on October 19, 2015, 07:48:06 AM
How do you figure that?He's taking the piss out of dieselgate......
Post by: dales133 on October 19, 2015, 07:48:35 AM
Post by: akarosco on October 19, 2015, 07:49:33 AM
Lol was tounge in cheek mate,refering to VW turning things on and off to sell carsHaha, nice one
Relax, put the diff lock on, climb another sand dune & enjoy the view.
Post by: Steffo1 on October 19, 2015, 06:37:44 PM
Well my Amarok has eight forward gears AND does it with fewer gear levers.What if you need low range reverse????
That's gotta be hard to beat.
Relax, put the diff lock on, climb another sand dune & enjoy the view.
Post by: akarosco on October 19, 2015, 07:42:55 PM
What if you need low range reverse????Haven't needed it yet.
Do you use it often?
Relax, put the diff lock on, climb another sand dune & enjoy the view.