MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bird on July 12, 2014, 07:18:02 PM
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Looking at getting a setup for my shed but know nothing about these things..
Currently I roll out the compressor to the door, plug it in and click and go... but want it a little more user friendly.
I have 2 options:
1 - run air hose round the walls and have several outlets around the place. I can still do this as the walls are not covered yet.
2 - Retractable roll thing mounted to the wall somewhere
The Hose doesn't seem that expensive but the fittings are surely in Yen ???
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281376473621 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281376473621)
Is hose hose in this case? Or is it there is no good and bad - same for fittings?
Good ones to look for over cheap Shit?
Thanks for any advice.
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Go for a retractable roll, they work like a charm. Macnaught is the best but $$$. Repco have a 'MechPro' that comes up on special every now and then that does the job for a home user. Replace the in the box fittings with genuine Nitto and you're good to go.
http://catalogues.repco.co.nz/getitemtooltip.php?itemId=465189 (http://catalogues.repco.co.nz/getitemtooltip.php?itemId=465189)
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Go for a retractable roll, they work like a charm. Macnaught is the best but $$$. Repco have a 'MechPro' that comes up on special every now and then that does the job for a home user. Replace the in the box fittings with genuine Nitto and you're good to go.
X2 definitely go the retractable reel.
Also total tools is a great place to pick up that sort of thing.
Cheers
Evo
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Go for a retractable roll, they work like a charm. Macnaught is the best but $$$. Repco have a 'MechPro' that comes up on special every now and then that does the job for a home user. Replace the in the box fittings with genuine Nitto and you're good to go.
thanks dude..
I didn't think of Repco.. was thinking of tool shops which were $$$$
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Better using 1/2" copper pipe/line for your fixed air set-up if you can.
Valved sockets for the walls and include a drier/water filter as well.
Talk to a Panel Beater/Spray Painter about it too.
Sometimes they know more than they let on.
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24 years ago I did my shed with 20mm PVC pressure pipe, everyone said I was crazy.
If you look at the specs if I remember correctly it's good for 200PSI, you can even use the high strength glue if you want. I used the standard glue and no primer, there are heaps of fittings, elbows, T's, etc available and cheap, it's dead easy to fit as you just cut and glue in a T for an outlet, glue in an adapter with a female thread and screw your Nito fitting into that, glue a cap on the end when you get all the way around your shed. I have a stack of outlets and just a 3 meter hose for use inside the shed as I have outlets all over the place..
Never had a problem with it.
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I was going to suggest the same as MarkG66. 3/4" PVC Class 18 will do the job. Tees, Elbows and End caps are all cheap. It generally looks neat and is cheap and functional.
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24 years ago I did my shed with 20mm PVC pressure pipe, everyone said I was crazy.
If you look at the specs if I remember correctly it's good for 200PSI, you can even use the high strength glue if you want. I used the standard glue and no primer, there are heaps of fittings, elbows, T's, etc available and cheap, it's dead easy to fit as you just cut and glue in a T for an outlet, glue in an adapter with a female thread and screw your Nito fitting into that, glue a cap on the end when you get all the way around your shed. I have a stack of outlets and just a 3 meter hose for use inside the shed as I have outlets all over the place..
Never had a problem with it.
I've also seen a commercial workshop (cabinet maker) done with PVC. Don't know if I'd trust it but the cabinet maker swears by it.
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Definitely go the hose reel. Put the compressor in an out of the way spot and run a hard line to the reel. Also put a block and bleed valve set up in line to the reel so you can keep the pressure out of the hose reel when its not in use. Ive got a 6x9 shed and the 20m reel will obviously reach anywhere inside and get me a fair way outside as well. Mount the reel up high in a corner to keep it out of the way. I just bought a supercheap reel and have had it for 7 years with no dramas.
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Don't use PVC. Yes it may work but for Air you need to double the pressure rating which means you need something like 300+psi. If PVC lets go it will explode like shrapnel. If you wanna go cheap use poly pipe, std poly pn12.5 from Bunnings. It is still underrated but won't explode like PVC but just split. The poly fittings are rated to 16 bar so there good. You can track down PN 16 poly but it's harder to get in lengths less than 100m but it's rated for 16bar and will legally do air. Copper is great but 1/2" restricts too much and will stop tools performing.you need big diameters to get flow or receivers at the end of the run.
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I have run hoses around the shed to provide a number of outlets, one at the work bench in the shed, another where we park the cars ( this one has a 10m retractable hose reel from Trade Tools connected to it ).
The compressor is in the back shed behind the camper ( it's quitter out there ;D ) if we need more hose length we hook into the retractable hose reel with a couple of 10m hoses and can reach right into the house if needed ( blowing out computers and using air jigsaws when needed :cup: )
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I'm sure when I looked into it the pressure rating I used was 200PSI, all my air tools seem to be rated between 85 and 100 Psi so I have the cut set to 95
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The air lines we run around the production plants tend to be stupid expensive. I was going to run normal flexible hose around my shed with some t joints and outlets. I do have a retractable reel but the size of the thing has put me off hanging it up.
When it comes to joints/fittings, tends to be worth getting the better quality. Cheaper ones tend to burst apart when you bump them.
Better put some pics up when you get it done
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Repco have a 'MechPro' that comes up on special every now and then
MechPro is fine. I've had one for over 3 years with no issue, got it on special for $80 with a free spray gun. Total Tools and the like have the same model under different brands.
For years I've been meaning to run a few more outlets in the garage, but now I wouldn't bother. I only need one air tool / thing at a time, so the retractable reel suffices and no hoses left on the ground.
I ran about 30 metres of airline with outlets for works factory over 2 years ago. 10mm airhose with barbed fittings and hose clamps, about 8 outlets in total over 30ish metres off a 25CFM compressor. Works fine for air dusters, nail guns and sanders. Only detected 2 or 3 leaks over that time and a quick tighten of a clamp fixes it. Having said that, the compressor gets used on average 1-2 times a week for maybe 4 hours.
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This is why you don't use PVC it's not nice when it ruptures.
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Typically in Australia compressors are set to about 115-130psi with relief valves. Mostly we set the regs at 90psi but you will find you don't have that at the end of your hose. Certain tools like grinders etc use a lot if air. The old Ryco fittings and the like used to be horrible for airflow. The modern nitto and Cejn fittings are the way to go. Actually the old school way to plumb up tools was to put a tail of about 1.5-1.8m of hose directly to the tool with a barb then have the quick connect at the end of the lead.
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Bruce the other thing to do is make sure you don't create a way for moisture to get trapped in the lines. The horizontal runs need to be straight with a fall one way or another with a drain. Again old school used to bring the drops of the top of the horizontal line and loop back down vertical, continuing down past the quick connect to a drain tap. This allowed no moisture in lines to be trapped.
Used to be fun doing all this in gal water pipe with a pipe threader, hemp and stag jointing paste.
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I made my own air hose wheel, stand was from scrap metal, roll was an old fire hose reel, scrap too, and the handle from an old clothes line..
Works well
Sent by telegram stop
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Disclaimer - I work for Nitto! 100% on the reason for not using pvc due to the way it shatters. Certainly wouldn't stand up in a workplace claim.
My only other suggestion if you want to run pipe / hose around then have outlets would be to create a ring main and drop your outlets down from that. - essentially run your line out from the compressor into a T piece then run the line in a ring around the shed and back into the T piece, place your outlets along the ring where you want. This will ensure your pressure / airflow is equal at each point - particularly if using more than one tool at a time.
And of course spend a couple of dollars extra and get the genuine Nitto fittings! ;D
If you want to keep pressure out of the hose reel if you go that way grab a full blow cupla, which locks but also purges the air from the reel slowly and safely. www.nitto-australia.com.au (http://www.nitto-australia.com.au) for all the info!
The practice of a short length of hose from the tool to the fitting then connect to the air hose is still our recommendation (whip hose) particularly for any tool with a lot of vibrations such as needle scalpers, chipping hammers and impact wrenches. Main reason is it takes the vibrations away from the fittings giving longer life
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If you want to keep pressure out of the hose reel if you go that way grab a full blow cupla, which locks but also purges the air from the reel slowly and safely. www.nitto-australia.com.au (http://www.nitto-australia.com.au) for all the info!
Thanks for the helpful info, can you elaborate more on this? Sounds like I need to keep the air out of my hose reel when not in use.
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D4D, basically keeping the pressure out of your hose is more about extending life of the hose and not much more than that. Constant pressure can lead to leaks around the fittings, particularly if their crimping / clamping is a bit ordinary. Leaks will obviously drain the compressor tank.and if you want to keep the compressor turned on for quick use it will start to cycle up to keep up with the leaking air.
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Thanks for the helpful info, can you elaborate more on this? Sounds like I need to keep the air out of my hose reel when not in use.
Don't know what those are worth but as I said earlier block and bleed valve set up in line to the hose reel will do the trick. I also replaced the drain bung on the tank with a small valve which has a hose coming off it and runs to outside the shed on the ground. Saves rusty water stains on the concrete and is very easy to use.
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I also replaced the drain bung on the tank with a small valve which has a hose coming off it and runs to outside the shed on the ground. Saves rusty water stains on the concrete and is very easy to use.
Yep..................have the same set up :cup: , we just open the tap and drain the tank outside on the grass, but the dog goes nuts at the other end of the hose ;D
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How often do you guys drain your tank and do you leave your compressor pressurised when not in use?
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I only turn it on when it's needed ( unless I forget and hear it fire up in the middle of the night :-[ ) and drain the tank about every two weeks ( depending on how much it's been running )
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I only turn it on when it's needed ( unless I forget and hear it fire up in the middle of the night :-[ ) and drain the tank about every two weeks ( depending on how much it's been running )
every 2 weeks :o i'd be lucky to do it twice a year, and i'm a chippie who uses his compressor for a living :-[ i usually do it when i notice excessive moisture coming out the air hose end as i plug something in...lol...please note, i don't reccomend this method of maitenace to others ;D ;D i'm still running the same compressor i bought as an apprentice also (nearly 20 years old), so it doesn't seem to effect the compressor itself, and the oil i throw in the nail and rattle guns each time i use them seems to be doing it's thing 8)
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Disclaimer - I work for Nitto! 100% on the reason for not using pvc due to the way it shatters. Certainly wouldn't stand up in a workplace claim.
My only other suggestion if you want to run pipe / hose around then have outlets would be to create a ring main and drop your outlets down from that. - essentially run your line out from the compressor into a T piece then run the line in a ring around the shed and back into the T piece, place your outlets along the ring where you want. This will ensure your pressure / airflow is equal at each point - particularly if using more than one tool at a time.
And of course spend a couple of dollars extra and get the genuine Nitto fittings! ;D
If you want to keep pressure out of the hose reel if you go that way grab a full blow cupla, which locks but also purges the air from the reel slowly and safely. www.nitto-australia.com.au (http://www.nitto-australia.com.au) for all the info!
The practice of a short length of hose from the tool to the fitting then connect to the air hose is still our recommendation (whip hose) particularly for any tool with a lot of vibrations such as needle scalpers, chipping hammers and impact wrenches. Main reason is it takes the vibrations away from the fittings giving longer life
Hey new BFF. Great post, are the full blow the ones that will also stop the mating hose from whipping all over the place before release?
The nitto fittings are certainly the best for home user IMO. Great flow and Because of the availability of copies from anywhere when you need a fitting but I always use the genuine female fittings.( It's generally the male you need as you add air tools) . Your eyeballs are worth so much more than the few dollars you save buying a knock off fitting.
What we need now is a Nitto group but thread :cheers:
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Bruce the other thing to do is make sure you don't create a way for moisture to get trapped in the lines. The horizontal runs need to be straight with a fall one way or another with a drain. Again old school used to bring the drops of the top of the horizontal line and loop back down vertical, continuing down past the quick connect to a drain tap. This allowed no moisture in lines to be trapped.
Used to be fun doing all this in gal water pipe with a pipe threader, hemp and stag jointing paste.
Agree with achjimmy re pvc pipe, seen one let go and blow a hole clean thru a sheet of 3/4 mdf. Usually happens in hot weather. Achjimmy I currently doing a gal setup at the moment, been up in the roof for the last week, done hundreds of joints, bit easier these days with jointing paste, love my rigid threader
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What we need now is a Nitto group buy thread :cheers:
x2 :)
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Would love to help out on the group buy but unfortunately company policy would prevent me from offering one! The full blow sockets slowly release the air from the plug side of the connection, so put one on your compressor outlet and no more loud blast of air when disconnecting your hoses! $50 list price.
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Some years ago in a previous workshop, i ran a half inch galvanised pipe around the walls of my workshop at 1.2 mtrs above the floor and had six outlets at specific locations. I used a half inch tee at each location with a reducer to bring it down to the air fitting. In addition to this i fitted an old 90ltr LPG tank in series with the air line and the compressor and this gave me a large air supply storage which was great for spray painting. I used an 8mtr flexi-coil hose from whatever appliance i was using and into the closest wall outlet.
This system worked a treat for many years and was left behind when i sold. Not sure i would trust PVC though.
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every 2 weeks :o i'd be lucky to do it twice a year, and i'm a chippie who uses his compressor for a living :-[ i usually do it when i notice excessive moisture coming out the air hose end as i plug something in...lol...please note, i don't reccomend this method of maitenace to others ;D ;D i'm still running the same compressor i bought as an apprentice also (nearly 20 years old), so it doesn't seem to effect the compressor itself, and the oil i throw in the nail and rattle guns each time i use them seems to be doing it's thing 8)
Yeah I wouldn't worry to much mate. If you were spray painting it would be an issue. When I was in that industry, as an apprentice it was my job to maintain the compressors, 3 very large ones, and used to drain them every day, and leave the tap open over night. In the morning check the oil and turn the tap of again. We also had an air drier in the line for the paint shop. It removed and moisture in the line also.
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Some good info... :)
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How often do you guys drain your tank and do you leave your compressor pressurised when not in use?
At the end of everyday in my workshop.
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The below will explain the codes on Nitto fittings; relying on Jacmark to correct me if I'm wrong (has been 20yrs since I sold them :D)
The fittings will have a code stamped into them, example 20pm
20 = 1/4" bsp thread size or hose tail size
30 = 3/8" bsp thread size or hose tail size
40 = 1/2" bsp thread size or hose tail size
pm= Plug male thread
ph= Plug hose tail
pf = Plug female thread
sm = Socket male thread
sf = Socket female thread
sh = Socket hose tail
So for instance a 3/8" id air hose would be fitted with 1 x 30sh and 1 x 30ph, oh and two clamps of course.
So there's some almost useless info for u! :cheers:
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Don't use PVC. Yes it may work but for Air you need to double the pressure rating which means you need something like 300+psi. If PVC lets go it will explode like shrapnel. If you wanna go cheap use poly pipe, std poly pn12.5 from Bunnings. It is still underrated but won't explode like PVC but just split. The poly fittings are rated to 16 bar so there good. You can track down PN 16 poly but it's harder to get in lengths less than 100m but it's rated for 16bar and will legally do air. Copper is great but 1/2" restricts too much and will stop tools performing.you need big diameters to get flow or receivers at the end of the run.
The work shop where i work at use pn12.5 blue line poly pipe and by the the amount of dust on the pipe and fittings i dont think they have had any issues
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Barrabart your spot on with the sizing codes!
:cup:
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edited
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The air lines we run around the production plants tend to be stupid expensive.
well you better bring them to me for safe secure storage then..
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well you better bring them to me for safe secure storage then..
Actually I was trying to remember which plant I saw some spare stuff lying around. I'll keep an eye out in my travels. Looks like blue polly pipe, even the fittings look like that. If I find a spare couple of lengths I might half inch them for "myself" and might be enough for your job.
Problem will be if I saw them in Bairnsdale a few weeks ago, I'm hoping to never have to go back down there EVER AGAIN.....
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The work shop where i work at use pn12.5 blue line poly pipe and by the the amount of dust on the pipe and fittings i dont think they have had any issues
yeah quite a few cockies use it. the advantage is it just splits if it goes and the fittings are 16 bar rated. but if you need enough of it PN16 is that much more per roll and its the correct stuff.
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ActuLooks like blue polly pipe, even the fittings look like that.
yeah I rang them up before when I was chasing poly and they supply it lengths rather than rolls. they reckon the fittings are different but they don't look it to me. I guess its just PN16 poly made for them special in blue?? Blue being the recognised colour of compressed air in factories.
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yeah I rang them up before when I was chasing poly and they supply it lengths rather than rolls. they reckon the fittings are different but they don't look it to me. I guess its just PN16 poly made for them special in blue?? Blue being the recognised colour of compressed air in factories.
This stuff we have at work is fairly thick in the wall, you would never be able to roll it up without damage. And the connectors/fittings have heaps of barbs to withstand the pressure. I'm actually surprised work has used the stuff, thought it would have been far too expensive (sarcasm......). In my years of working in the factories the only failure of this stuff is when it has been hit bu a forklift and damaged. But I reckon I'd fail if I got hit by a forklift too....
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Far enough maybe higher rating again? This shot
is 25mm PN16
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/14/a4e7azu6.jpg)
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/14/hane5yze.jpg)
This is the stuff in our plants. There is nothing I can get a picture of a cross section but I reckon the walls would be 5mm to 8mm thick. Heavy stuff
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PVC or any plastic pipe will be pressure rated for liquid use: the pressure rating should be considerably less for gas (air) as the amount of energy stored in the air will be many times greater than the energy stored in the liquid.
When we are pressure testing oil and gas pipelines (using water!) we have to calculate the amount of energy stored in the pipeline at test pressure, in order to determine an exclusion zone around the pipeline for safety. Less than 1% by volume of air in the water can double the stored energy, so imagine what 100% air can do!
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/14/hane5yze.jpg)
This is the stuff in our plants. There is nothing I can get a picture of a cross section but I reckon the walls would be 5mm to 8mm thick. Heavy stuff
(http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii382/macca_04/Airline_zpsbe199126.jpg~original) (http://s549.photobucket.com/user/macca_04/media/Airline_zpsbe199126.jpg.html)
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(http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii382/macca_04/Airline_zpsbe199126.jpg~original) (http://s549.photobucket.com/user/macca_04/media/Airline_zpsbe199126.jpg.html)
Thats the stuff macca! Certainly wouldn't roll that stuff up!
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Bird, if you want to do it in gal I can bring the rigid down and give you a hand with it. PVC is the cheapest but i wouldnt use it, the blue poly lino is talking about is fairly expensive. I am currently restructuring a factory that I put gal into at least twenty years ago and most of it is still in good knick, gal is fine if you put drains on all the runs, we just use a ball valve and the guys drain the compressor every day and usually drain the droppers about every week or so.
They run a Ingersol Rand ML110 (700cfm) with an ML75 as a backup and the gal works fine
(http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii382/macca_04/20140711_090352_zps24419bd0.jpg~original) (http://s549.photobucket.com/user/macca_04/media/20140711_090352_zps24419bd0.jpg.html)
Can do all the cutting and threading for you but cant get any pipe or fittings, this factory is doing it pretty hard at the moment, hence the restructure.
Let me know if you want a hand, only drama is I am leaving on Sunday to go to Newcastle for approx two weeks to dismantle another factory (that didnt make it) so it would have to be after that
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X2 for gal pipe.
As others have said you will need a drain pipe with ball valve at your outlets.
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Thanks for the info and the offer Macca..
Will think about it, will be a few weeks until Im ready anyway... I was just expecting to use air hose but thankfullk I asked :)
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What size gal pipe do you use macca?
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What size gal pipe do you use macca?
Three inch for the main runs, inch and a half or two inch for branches and either three quarter or half inch for the droppers, (usually half inch) in the pic I posted you can see one of the three inch above the roller door on the right and a balance pipe running across the top of the spray booth and gantry, we run the three inch in a grid, one down each side of the factory and then run a three inch pipe between them every eight metres, the wall on the left is actually a dividing wall there is another three inch on that side.
They run a bloody big bead blaster along with a heap of CNC's, so when the blaster kicks in you need to make sure the CNC,s have enough air otherwise the result aint pretty
macca
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It's all about the air volume required isn't it
I project managed a large manufacturing factory that had a 2 part ring main using 40mm bore pe100 with welded joints and lots of drop legs to fittings - all done by a specialist subbie. Cost a motza (shed is 6000m2). All fixed piping should have falls to dead legs with drain taps to catch condensation. Also refer here for the experts guidance http://www.pipa.com.au/sites/www.pipa.com.au/files/document/attachment/pop002.pdf
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Thanks for the info and the offer Macca..
Will think about it, will be a few weeks until Im ready anyway... I was just expecting to use air hose but thankfullk I asked :)
No worries, I'm just up the road
I think in one post you said you were going to line the walls? if you do and you run hose behind the lining you will have problems when a hose blows off a fitting and it will eventually
macca
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Im only going to be running a small compressor, air tools like blower, and tyre blower-up-ererer and Shit like that...
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Im only going to be running a small compressor, air tools like blower, and tyre blower-up-ererer and **** like that...
Yeah, couple lengths half inch gal and a few fittings will be more than enough, only takes 15 to 20 seconds to cut a thread so you can put as many fittings as you like, be done in no time at all
macca
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Yeah, couple lengths half inch gal and a few fittings will be more than enough, only takes 15 to 20 seconds to cut a thread so you can put as many fittings as you like, be done in no time at all
macca
wats the gal worth?
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Bruce go the gal, cost effective if you can get it threaded which you can thanks to macca.
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wats the gal worth?
Buy it anywhere but Bunnings
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wats the gal worth?
I'll get some prices for you tomorrow, joint where I am do all their own purchasing and me being an old fart I cant remember, but its not a lot
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Far enough maybe higher rating again? This shot
is 25mm PN16
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/14/a4e7azu6.jpg)
i think you will find that is pn12.5"blue line" used for mains water - the "green line" stuff is used for agriculture - I only sell water transfer poly so not sure the coding of the other poly pipe.
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Nah it's pn16 or at least it's labeled that way on the pipe. Your tight though it's the first time I have seen 16 with blue stripe
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not doubting you but never seen it - that will confuse a plumber using that on long runs being a smaller ID the friction loss will be greater.
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Repco have the retractable air hose on special
(http://blkmav.com/myswag/repcoair.jpg)
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I better start this gig in th next month... time to go shopping for the bits.
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Those air hose reels are only good for light use applications due to only being 10mm hose.
If you want to get into rattle guns etc you need 12 mm ID hose.
Regards
Angus.