MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: DaveR on February 15, 2014, 05:21:33 PM
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OK, I know, I should be on a camp chair somewhere chillin.
Anyway, this came up in a discussion a while ago, and I am most curious to see what you clever swaggers think.
Situation is this.
Pretend for a moment, I am in the wife’s Jackaroo, at the lights, everything legal as far as vehicle road worthy and my capacity to drive.
Suddenly, a flash big 200 series L/C runs into the back, shunts me into a pole.
The Jackaroo is a write of, blind Freedy would see that, but the L/C has minor damage. Plenty of witnesses, even a coper having lunch near by.
Now the insurance would pay out $9,000 for the Jackaroo, but, with all the messing about you go through for a car purchase, it costs $10,000 to get another Jackaroo.
Remember this is pretend.
Now the big question.
Do I have a right to take into my possession the 200 L/C (regardless of who or what entity owns it) as security until I am properly reimbursed for another vehicle? Equal value of course.
Do I have to submit a claim with my Insurer? Can I just notify them of the vehicles condition and say that a commercial – private agreement is pending.
Can I lodge a claim against the other driver for suitable payment etc.
I realise it depends upon the assets of the other driver, so with someone driving a Hyundai Excel, well, I’d be calling the insurance folk, but a nice Range Rover Sports and so on, why not.
Is it feasible?
Like I said, I do need more camp chair time…….
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Now the big question.
Do I have a right to take into my possession the 200 L/C (regardless of who or what entity owns it) as security until I am properly reimbursed for another vehicle? Equal value of course.
is this a serious question?? No, your not allowed to.
Good luck taking the blokes 100k car off him, you might wear one on the sniffer I'd suggest..
Do I have to submit a claim with my Insurer? Can I just notify them of the vehicles condition and say that a commercial – private agreement is pending.
its a not at fault claim, so I'd tell them
Can I lodge a claim against the other driver for suitable payment etc.
if you don't claim against him, his insurance company isn't going to know about it and pay up
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is this a serious question??
Sure is.
No, your not allowed to.
Why not, it is only security until such time as payment is made. That is payment for all expenses incured to replace like for like vehicle and any other property.
When we spoke about it, an argument was put forward that it could be stated that a contract of my terms was entered into the moment the collision occurred. That contract would be unreasonable if I was saying you now owe me a 200 series, but the $10,000 is fair.
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(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/cremo1/Smileys/walkbackwards.gif)
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Why wouldn't you just ask your insurance company for a better pay out? A mate's wife stacked his car which he was fastidious about. You wouldn't find a bettervexample with low kays etc. Insurance wrote it off and offered him $8k. He hunted through car sales, magazines, classifieds etc and proved to them it was worth more. He ended up with over $10k.
As for taking the LC - opens a whole new can of worms. You could be liable to arrest for theft of motor vehicle (may not get charged) loss of earnings if it is a company car etc - grief you probably don't need.
Your 'contract' would most likely be between you and your insurer or the insurer of the 200.
My 2c
Tim
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You cannot take possession of his LC200 - it is his vehicle and is registered in his name - not yours.
You have insurance for a reason - and that is to protect you and your assets. Leave it to your insurance company to make the agreements and get the money off him (his insurance company) - and that is why he has insurance too.
He hypothetically ran into the back of you - it was a hypothetical accident. If going by your scenario, you then held his $100k LC200 and then it got damaged in your care to the tune of $20,000, can he then come with his sleeping bag and stay at your house???
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(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/cremo1/Smileys/walkbackwards.gif)
Humm.
OK, I can take the hint.
I'll just go and jump in the pool now.
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Don't think you can just take someones car as a holding deposit.
Why would the other driver offer to buy you another car or give you money, when they would more than likely claim it on insurance and simply pay any excess.
Of course you would notify your insurance provider, you're not at fault. Why wouldn't you.
If the vehicle is written off, you would be paid the agreed value. Nothing more, nothing less. Its a contractual agreement, quite straight forward really.
There is no contract of my terms entered into the moment a collision occurs. There is the liability of fault, but that is worn by the insurer. Unless the driver at fault is deemed to be uninsured. At this point, your insurer would pay you out and then pursue the other party to recoup funds.
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It's a civil matter between you and the LC driver. Seizing property is what the Sheriff does, on Court orders.
If you have a "current market value" policy and you don't want to be left short, then pay more and take out an Agreed Value policy.
And one of the services your insurer will provide is dealing with the other driver.
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(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/cremo1/Smileys/walkbackwards.gif)
Lol sometimes this place cracks me up!
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.......
Do I have a right to take into my possession the 200 L/C......
Interested to know how you propose to do that.
I know how I'd react if it was tried on me.....
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Yep no right on his property. But you have an entitlement to fair recourse. You do not have to lodge a claim with your insurance company or deal with his. You have resonable right to compensation. If you can reasonably prove it will cost $10 or $11 k to replace or repair your vehicle you can proceed and claim that of him. Of course his insurance will contact you and argue, if they will not agree to pay you the resonable value you continue to claim on him. End of the day he has to recompense you. Bit of a dragged out senario for the sake of a grand but if it floats your boat Dave do it. My dad did and the NRMA backed down and paid him out every cent.
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Btw why do everybody think 200s are big? Kia caniavals are bigger! ;D
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Thanks Swaggers.
OK, should have said the big new Horrible Looking Nissan instead, shame on me to bring L/C's into disrepute.
My position in the original discussion that turned into a full blown argument was to go and get a beer, slide my chair back and be amused by the whole thing.
But then I got wondering, what would happen if......
My knowledge of legal stuff is less then nil, although improving thanks to you lot.
At least now, next time it comes up, I can participate a bit, if I have a computer handy, and quote you lot..... ;D
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Thanks Swaggers.
OK, should have said the big new Horrible Looking Nissan instead, shame on me to bring L/C's into disrepute.
My position in the original discussion that turned into a full blown argument was to go and get a beer, slide my chair back and be amused by the whole thing.
But then I got wondering, what would happen if......
My knowledge of legal stuff is less then nil, although improving thanks to you lot.
At least now, next time it comes up, I can participate a bit, if I have a computer handy, and quote you lot..... ;D
If it was a Nissan why would you want to seize his vehicle ? >:D >:D >:D
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As others have said, you can't have his stuff for 'security'..
Just for a laugh, try it....make sure you take photo's..it'd be the funniest thing we've seen this year....
Basically, as described, its against the law....completely.....not just theft, loss of earnings, intimidatory behaviour, but also fraud...
If you get pinged for all those...try getting insurance ever again...
Then you will need bikies...lots of bikies...if your wife dings the car... :D
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But then I got wondering, what would happen if......
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1362166128_268730-boxing-pictures.jpg)
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If the market value of your vehicle is $9k, I can't see that you could claim $1k because a replacement vehicle cost $10k, short of a civil court case, which I suspect would be very costly and highly unlikely to succeed.
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If the market value of your vehicle is $9k, I can't see that you could claim $1k because a replacement vehicle cost $10k, short of a civil court case, which I suspect would be very costly and highly unlikely to succeed.
But I bet you could find a lawyer who would tell you that you have a very good case and a good chance of winning ... As they always so.
the lawyers never lose.
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This thread is proof, you shouldn't partake in strong drink whilst in charge of your car keys or keyboard.
Joke for ya.....
How do ya stop DaveR from drowning in his pool?
Ya take ya foot off his head..... ;D Just joking, honest.
Lost, get ya foot of his head.
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This thread is proof, you shouldn't partake in strong drink whilst in charge of your car keys or keyboard.
Joke for ya.....
How do ya stop DaveR from drowning in his pool?
Ya take ya foot off his head..... ;D Just joking, honest.
Lost, get ya foot of his head.
Hahahahaha hahahaha pick myself off the floor. Oh look didn't spill a drop ;D ;D
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Now the big question.
1. Do I have a right to take into my possession the 200 L/C (regardless of who or what entity owns it) as security until I am properly reimbursed for another vehicle? Equal value of course.
2. Do I have to submit a claim with my Insurer? Can I just notify them of the vehicles condition and say that a commercial – private agreement is pending.
3. Can I lodge a claim against the other driver for suitable payment etc.
1. No.
2. You must notify your insurer as your vehicle is no longer what it says in the policy. I have never seen a policy that says don't tell us. You don't have to make a claim but must notify them.
3. No. If you had business insurance or loss of income insurance you could claim against that if indeed you lost income as a result of the collision.
Thats $489.55 in legal advice. Round it down to two cases of Boags. :cheers:
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Interested to know how you propose to do that.
I know how I'd react if it was tried on me.....
This reminds me of the truckies blockade at parliament house. A few of us were the first ones up there when it started and one of the bosses was on the radio demanding and ordering that we take possession of the trucks and remove them. :police:
What could possibly go wrong 8)
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This reminds me of the truckies blockade at parliament house. A few of us were the first ones up there when it started and one of the bosses was on the radio demanding and ordering that we take possession of the trucks and remove them. :police:
What could possibly go wrong 8)
:cup: gold
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Of course you would notify your insurance provider, you're not at fault. Why wouldn't you.
If the vehicle is written off, you would be paid the agreed value. Nothing more, nothing less. Its a contractual agreement, quite straight forward really.
If the Third Party vehicle has Insurance, you don't necessarily need to involve you're own Insurer. You can "claim" straight through the Third Party. No excess to pay and it's not recorded as a claim against yourself. Therefore, it CAN go towards having a cheaper premium the following renewal. It's a gamble though, because an Insurer of Third Party has the right to do two things when settling your claim:
1. Not pay a cent to you until their Client has paid their excess.
2. Settle your claim, less their Client's excess. The only way to recouple that lost $400 excess or what ever, is to pursue the Third Party directly.
Insurance would only pay the Agreed Value if you pay for it on the Policy. Some will do Market or Agreed Value which ever is higher also.
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But I bet you could find a lawyer who would tell you that you have a very good case and a good chance of winning ... As they always so.
the lawyers never lose.
Oh yeah!
When I bingles the tail of an old Magna a couple of years ago with the nose of the Subi I received letters of demand and court summons from the young blokes lawyer. Wanted thousands for use of a hire car while his was repaired, etc.
My insurer told him to fek off.
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DaveR,
All of us with older cars with 'extras' such as bars, racks, storage draws, etc have a real interest in this issue, as:
1/. Most of our mods aren't reflected in an increased market value - may even reduce 'value' according to the whim of some assessors;
2/. Repair assessments are often deemed to be more expensive for older cars because new parts for them can carry a premium, as they can be rarer, and repairs are 'assessed' at new parts prices;
3/. VicRoads, where I am, can't speak for other states, deem it compulsory to write off the vehicle if repair costs approach 'market value' - I.e. Glass's Guide value. Given cost of parts and labour it is doesn't take much for a $9000 vehicle to approach that figure, even for minor damage.
Wen I was in this position the assessing centre allowed me to remove my extras and swap out my new wheels and rubber for the old ones. If I hadn't had the old wheels I would've lost 5 road wheels with tyres that had only done about 5000 km!
If you want to keep your written off vehicle make sure your insurer allows you first right of refusal for salvage purposes.
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If the Third Party vehicle has Insurance, you don't necessarily need to involve you're own Insurer. You can "claim" straight through the Third Party. No excess to pay and it's not recorded as a claim against yourself. Therefore, it CAN go towards having a cheaper premium the following renewal. It's a gamble though, because an Insurer of Third Party has the right to do two things when settling your claim:
1. Not pay a cent to you until their Client has paid their excess.
2. Settle your claim, less their Client's excess. The only way to recouple that lost $400 excess or what ever, is to pursue the Third Party directly.
Insurance would only pay the Agreed Value if you pay for it on the Policy. Some will do Market or Agreed Value which ever is higher also.
Every insurer I have used wont charge you the excess and it won't effect your no-claim bonus if you can identify the at-fault driver. Claim against your policy and let the insurance company deal with the hassles. Who do you think the other driver's insurance company is going to be more civil with? You or another insurance company?
My wife's car was run into in a car park. The other driver was uninsured but she had a friend who was a panel beater. No Way José! GIO dealt with them and the car was repaired at our chosen repairer. No excess, no loss of NCB.
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Every insurer I have used wont charge you the excess and it won't effect your no-claim bonus if you can identify the at-fault driver. Claim against your policy and let the insurance company deal with the hassles. Who do you think the other driver's insurance company is going to be more civil with? You or another insurance company?
My wife's car was run into in a car park. The other driver was uninsured but she had a friend who was a panel beater. No Way José! GIO dealt with them and the car was repaired at our chosen repairer. No excess, no loss of NCB.
Correct. No excess with usually, name, address and rego. Yes the NCB isn't effected.
However, simply lodging the claim will likely go towards increasing the premium at the policy end.
Use this example if the vehicle is written off and you claim through own Insurer 6 months into your policy with no excess and no change to NCB:
Value agreed on $10,000
less $320 (6 months worth of premium if you pay monthly)
less $400 (rego, CTP if it's registered for another 6 months, because you can cancel this with the relevant folk and get it back in your hand)
= total payout of $9,280.00 but $9,680.00 after you cancel rego and CTP and get it back.
Bare in mind by, with going through your own Insurer you PAY the premium in full in order for the Policy/Contract to be finalised. THEN, you pay from that date onwards to Insure the replacement vehicle, so you've paid 2 x 6 months worth of Premium. 1 x 6 months for a vehicle you don't have 1 x 6 months for the replacement vehicle. Then in the background, the companies Underwriters/computer allow for the fact you have lodged a claim and add $x's for the processing of you claim and add that to your next renewal - most likely.
Now go through the Third Party Insurer:
Value agreed on $10,000
plus $320 (6 months worth of premium if you pay monthly, but you cancel that with your Insurer. If you pay yearly, you get a refund of $320)
plus $400 (rego and CTP if it's registered for another 6 months, but you cancel that with the relevant folk)
= total payout of $10,720.00
So when you Insurer your replacement vehicle, you're only paying 1 x 6 months worth of premium. Then in background your Insurer's Underwriters/computer have no idea you've lodged a claim, therefore, it doesn't go towards the increase of your premium at renewal or new Policy. By going through the TP's Insurer, you can save yourself $320. If you're lucky, the TP's Insurer won't deduct your Rego and you get it back twice.
For me, if I was confident the TP was going to or had lodged a claim, I'd go through them.
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Evans52,
In my experience your insurer 'owns' the balance of your rego.
In my case I wrote my Monterey off about 2 weeks after paying the rego, so lost the bloody lot!
GRRRRR
>:D
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If it was a Nissan why would you want to seize his vehicle ? >:D >:D >:D
Yep, the broken Jackaroo would have more value, so I got that wrong to.
This thread is proof, you shouldn't partake in strong drink whilst in charge of your car keys or keyboard.
Joke for ya.....
How do ya stop DaveR from drowning in his pool?
Ya take ya foot off his head..... ;D Just joking, honest.
Lost, get ya foot of his head.
Good luck with that one, love to see ya try...
As I said, it was a discussion that became heated at the time, but there is relevance to it for owners of older cars.
Way I see it, I want to be reimbursed for $750 rego that is 3 weeks old, new tyres, even the new ECM that went in at a cost of $2,000. bla bla, that list could go on.
I recon I should be able claim against the guilty drivers insurance for more than just the cost of what someone thinks my car may or may not be worth. Plus my lost time for mucking about to get a replacement vehicle.
This is in the case of a right off, not busted light of course.
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Stop it Dave, now you reminded me I had just fitted a refurbished ABS unit as well!
:'( :'( :'(
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Evans52,
In my experience your insurer 'owns' the balance of your rego.
In my case I wrote my Monterey off about 2 weeks after paying the rego, so lost the bloody lot!
GRRRRR
>:D
Not true - at not here in SA anyway. The reason it's deducted from the settlement is because you can cancel it and get a refund. Otherwise, you'd be getting it back twice. Your Insurer + place of rego.
Ahhhh....maybe that's what you mean. Here in SA we pay Rego, Admin, CTP and Taxes all in the one payment to Services SA (RTA/Vic Roads type place). We cancel it there and get the balance back. Are you meaning you lose the CTP or other part of it?
Also, you can request your Insurer to chase other forms of compensation for you ie Hire Car or loss of wages etc. Most Insurers, if you can prove it's justified, won't have a problem in the end paying for loss of wages or Hire Car etc. Sometimes the full cost, sometimes part of. All depends. But some will tell you to get stuffed and chase it yourself.
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Not true - at not here in SA anyway. The reason it's deducted from the settlement is because you can cancel it and get a refund. Otherwise, you'd be getting it back twice. Your Insurer + place of rego.
Ahhhh....maybe that's what you mean. Here in SA we pay Rego, Admin, CTP and Taxes all in the one payment to Services SA (RTA/Vic Roads type place). We cancel it there and get the balance back. Are you meaning you lose the CTP or other part of it?
Also, you can request your Insurer to chase other forms of compensation for you ie Hire Car or loss of wages etc. Most Insurers, if you can prove it's justified, won't have a problem in the end paying for loss of wages or Hire Car etc. Sometimes the full cost, sometimes part of. All depends. But some will tell you to get stuffed and chase it yourself.
Nope, unfortunately it is the entire shebang in Vic, or at least it was with GIO.
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If you are going through insurance the pay out or not payout is an agreement between the 2 insurance companies so no you could not take the other persons vehicle for security as they have no influence over the outcome
If the bloke in the landcruiser somhow did agree to your origional point i would then argue that he was under duress due to emotional stress as this agreement was made immediatly after the accident therefore the contract is frustrated, and he would get his vehicle back
It is reasons like this i personally after being stung will never agree to private settlments and even if the damage to either vehicle is below the excess threshold will simply ask the other driver if they need and ambulance and if not i will then photgraph their rego plate, vin number, licence details and a couple shots of the damage, provide them with the same details and then drive off or wait on the other side of the road for the tow truck.
In my own personal case agreeing to pay for minor damage to a passager door all of a sudden turned into letters of demand for whiplash and stress and other compensation matters and then personal threats when i politly then gave my insurance details.....Never again
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In my own personal case agreeing to pay for minor damage to a passager door all of a sudden turned into letters of demand for whiplash and stress and other compensation matters and then personal threats when i politly then gave my insurance details.....Never again
To be fair, soft tissue injuries like whiplash may not be evident at the roadside but might cause trouble a day or so later. Also, personal injuries are covered by TAC (In Victoria) and it is a no-fault system.
But I agree (and mentioned it in an earlier post); Let your insurance company take care of the hassles.
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Nope, unfortunately it is the entire shebang in Vic, or at least it was with GIO.
Surely you could have handed in the plates or Rego certificate to Vic Roads and got a refund on the Rego?? If not, that's crap!
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Surely you could have handed in the plates or Rego certificate to Vic Roads and got a refund on the Rego?? If not, that's crap!
Unless there's a time limit, I think you should follow it up B&B.
I probably sound like a twat for going on about it, but I think you've been stiffed and you're entitled to your rego back. Maybe innocently by GIO, but nothing worse than being ripped off. A reason I left Insurance.
I checked my Cousin in Vic and when he had a Total Loss he handed his plates in and got a refund while his Insurer kept the rego, so he lost nothing.
I've found this for VicRoads:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/RenewCancelOrUpdateRegistration/CancelRegistration/Cancelregistrationandapplyforarefund.htm (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/RenewCancelOrUpdateRegistration/CancelRegistration/Cancelregistrationandapplyforarefund.htm)
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/07F5D8D1-11F1-42F6-B860-FF37505408D4/0/RefundForm_0613_WEB.pdf (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/07F5D8D1-11F1-42F6-B860-FF37505408D4/0/RefundForm_0613_WEB.pdf)
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Gee this would suck if it really did happen.