MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MarkGU on February 10, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
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yet another car maker heading off shore ....now its Toyota in 2017.
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http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=20458.msg560733#msg560733 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=20458.msg560733#msg560733)
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So the last Australian mass-produced car will be a Toyota.....
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http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=20458.msg560733#msg560733 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=20458.msg560733#msg560733)
yes Lost i realize it is a thread in the news section,but, i felt like so many have differing opinions on the subject i reckon it deserves is own thread.
cheers.
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There is a reason why Thailand and other SE Asian countries are now some of the largest car manufacturers (not designers) in the world - labour cost is very low and they operate within the ASEAN Free Trade area.
The Thailand automotive industry is the largest in Southeast Asia and the 9th largest in the World in 2012 with an output of near 1.5 million vehicles compared with Australia at around 200,000. Most of the vehicles built in Thailand are developed and licensed by foreign producers, and include Daihatsu, Ford, GM, Honda, Isuzu, Mazda, Mercedes Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota and Volvo. It is not surprising then that the auto manufacturing industry in Australia is coming to an end, not necessarily due to a bad product, just realistic global market forces.
What I don't like though is when companies move manufacturing off-shore to reap cheaper labour prices and political deals, but the cost to the purchaser remains the same or increases. Yeah yeah I know what would one expect!
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Manufacturing needs cheap labour, cheap energy, and cheap transport.
Australia has none of those hence the reason why manufacturing is going offshore. We are even struggling to maintain supply of cheap resources, next time there is a global downturn we won't fare so well.
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Let's hope due to the end of manufacturing of cars here in oz the government will remove the tarrifs and LCT on cars as there is no local sector to protect. I can't see it happening but who knows.
Cheers
Evo
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Opportunity of a life time here.
The Govt should take over the lease of the manufacturing plants and pay Ford, Holden and Toyota 1c for every $1000 they paid them each year in support for all the machinery. Then, put a team from CSIRO and other experts in electric vehicles and build solely electric vehicles for the world. Put the money they would have spent on support into developing new technologies. The world is desperate for zero emission vehicles.
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The auto industry, and many others in Australia, grew as a means of getting around import tariffs.
Remove the tariffs, and guess what happens.......
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Could you explain a bit more Geoff? :cheers:
Cheers
Evo
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You get that on the big jobs.
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The total manufacturing of cars in Australia started after the second world war when the Gov of the time realised that the country was entirely isolated and needed to be self sufficient in all areas. They used tariffs to protect the local industry from external competition. As the tariffs were reduced so our industry became subject to overseas competition as the politicians said we should compete on a level playing field. Only problem is that every other country with a car industry subsides or protects that industry. Thailand sends us utes from every maker but put a tariff on vehicles made in Australia. The end of local manufacturing puts us back in a position we were in before the second world war. We cannot produce anything and if supply from overseas is blocked we are cactus. Once again the lessons of history are ignored by the economists.
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Could you explain a bit more Geoff? :cheers:
Cheers
Evo
Drop the Tarriffs imports become cheaper and therefore more appealing.
Raise the Tarriffs and locally built becomes more appealing.
Unfortunately the likes of VW, Audi, Mercedes etc are of a far better build quality than Holden or Ford ( no offence to owners of either )and if you make them closer in price people will spend that bit extra to get the quality. If you make them leagues apart all of a sudden people will sacrifice a bit of quality for the $'s saved. That being said if the manufacturers want to sell their vehicles here but know their customers will have to pay high Tarriffs, it's more incentive to build them here. I know that then it all starts to become a numbers game but that's another story
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Drop the Tarriffs imports become cheaper and therefore more appealing.
Raise the Tarriffs and locally built becomes more appealing.
Unfortunately the likes of VW, Audi, Mercedes etc are of a far better build quality than Holden or Ford ( no offence to owners of either )and if you make them closer in price people will spend that bit extra to get the quality. If you make them leagues apart all of a sudden people will sacrifice a bit of quality for the $'s saved. That being said if the manufacturers want to sell their vehicles here but know their customers will have to pay high Tarriffs, it's more incentive to build them here. I know that then it all starts to become a numbers game but that's another story
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That's what I figured. So if there is no manufacturing here, what are the tarrifs protecting. I'm all for supporting Aussie made where I can, but as I can't stop holden, ford, Toyota from ceasing manufacturing here, then I would hope that the tarrifs which turn a $35000 BMW into a $50000 BMW are lifted.
I can't see these taxes going though, why would they it makes the government money. And after all cars are ported then that's even more money.
Cheers
Evo
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That's what I figured. So if there is no manufacturing here, what are the tarrifs protecting. I'm all for supporting Aussie made where I can, but as I can't stop holden, ford, Toyota from ceasing manufacturing here, then I would hope that the tarrifs which turn a $35000 BMW into a $50000 BMW are lifted.
I can't see these taxes going though, why would they it makes the government money. And after all cars are ported then that's even more money.
Cheers
Evo
Yep that's a tough one. If they hadn't dropped them "maybe" things may have been different now. On the flip side if they drop them even further now there will be no chance of any manufacturers ever setting up shop here ever again
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Manufacturing needs cheap labour, cheap energy, and cheap transport.
Australia has none of those hence the reason why manufacturing is going offshore. We are even struggling to maintain supply of cheap resources, next time there is a global downturn we won't fare so well.
Couldn't agree more mate.
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I wonder what impact the inability of our unions to negotiate has had on the final result. It would seem dumbfounding that when ever these stories came up in the media the first comment from unions was how other options other than wages and conditions needed to be addressed. Seemingly at the expense of wanting to maintain an industry. Don't get me wrong working conditions etc need to be a consideration but how long can predominately unskilled labour continue to expect pay rises above highly skilled work.
On the other hand what have our governments done other than pour money into these companies with no assurances.
Hopefully there is plenty of support for the workers and their families who have lost their jobs here from Ford, Holden & Toyota.
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Another one bites the dust >:( this country is struggling in a big way. I feel for all the families involved, not just for Toyota employees. This is going to have a large and devastating rippling effect.
Transport companies and logistics, parts, tyre industry, oils and consumables, textile industry, electrical, automotive glass, beancounters, automotive paint industry. Engineers, mech component manufacture to name a few. Very sad.
Just like Bridgestone and South Pacific tyres (Dunlop/Goodyear) did several years ago and packed it up in Australia and many others. Massive job loss.
So who's next? Sadly it's only a matter of time. So who's to blame? Maybe the unions for driving up the price of labour, but the labourer has to make money as well to pay his mortgage, support his family since we seem to pay a premium in this country for everything. It's a vicious cycle. I dunno maybe someone smarter than me can nail it but when you have a country that pumps oil and gas yet still Australians still get shafted at the bowsers something is really off in this country and it stinks :-[
Maybe a lot of bad decisions were made a long time ago by previous governments.
BD
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The joys of a Global Market Place, long way short of a Global Economy.
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Although it's never good hearing people are going to lose their jobs, most of us have faced redundancy at least once in our working lives. I just wish when I was made redundant I had been given 3 years notice (instead of 5 minutes), the opportunity to be re-skilled or educated for my next career (paid for or heavily subsidised by the company of course), an outsourcing company to help me find a new job, and finally a very healthy and above award redundancy package, instead of the bare bones minimum award entitlements us mortals generally receive.
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There is never a good time to make a major change. But if we hadn't moved away from a closed market/tarriffs, we'd still be watching B&W TVs that cost $1000 each
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And so the BS starts,
The unions & labor blaming the government for the closure.
The sad part about this is, the sheep will believe it.
Everything turns into a political foot ball.
oh btw, did you hear a druggo in Bali has been freed???
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Is this bloke for real ???
"BETTER DAYS AHEAD FOR CAR WORKERS"
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/better-days-ahead-for-car-workers-after-toyota-closure-tony-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226823373375 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/better-days-ahead-for-car-workers-after-toyota-closure-tony-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226823373375)
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There are 3 constants in life, death, taxes and change. I am afraid we're in a state of change where we didn't invest in the future and we're now reaping what we didn't sow. What made AU successful 50 years ago won't make us successful for the next 50 years. Our 'unskilled' labour market has become 'too' skilled and is being beaten by countries such as Thailand. We can't compete with them so we need to change. You've already seen Boeing take some of the highly skilled 'unskilled' market to make Dreamliner parts in Fishermans Bend. This is the type of thinking and market that we need to go after, not the commodity car business.
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Is this also a symptom of growth. Economies keep growing and the people get wealthier and the poorer step up. I saw a video once about growth and how it is unsustainable.
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Manufacturing needs cheap labour, cheap energy, and cheap transport.
Australia has none of those hence the reason why manufacturing is going offshore. We are even struggling to maintain supply of cheap resources, next time there is a global downturn we won't fare so well.
Up until 2010 we had the cheapest power in the world, then something changed and our power prices increased dramatically, yes I know what the change was. Power prices cannot be blamed fully on this one event though, the way the power market is regulated in Australia is another proof that self regulation of an industry does not work.
Back to original point - when we had the cheapest power, we could have higher labour costs, with higher power prices we become uncompetitive. Too late to change this now, however, power price increases and tariff protection decrease spelt the end to an automotive industry.
The free trade agreements that are being introduced by successive governments is unsustainable when only one party, Australia, abides by them.
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Is this also a symptom of growth. Economies keep growing and the people get wealthier and the poorer step up. I saw a video once about growth and how it is unsustainable.
Exactly, to continue to grow you need to continue to innovate, the growth curve is an inverse parabola. Just like in IT, IBM, Novell, Microsoft, Apple, Google, some are gone, a few are thriving and the rest are redefining themselves with new innovation to continue to grow again otherwise they too will die. The last 20 or so years have been the wealthiest this country has ever seen, we are now being caught by other countries who want some of that wealth too. We need to out innovate them or we will be left behind. The CSIRO have been saying this for ages, we need to step up in the sciences to pave the way for a new avenue of wealth after the cheap labour and resources dry up...
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I think the end of car making in Australia was inevitable, although it might have been delayed if Holden and Ford had made the sort of cars Australians (and other countries) wanted to buy. There is limited demand for Commodores, Falcons and Territories in Australia and almost none overseas: at least Toyota exported a large percentage of the Camrys they make here. Toyota's manufacturing here was borderline in numbers: what has forced this decision on them is the fact that the withdrawal of Ford and General Motors has had such a serious impact on the local component suppliers that they will not be viable, forcing Toyota to import all their components with the resultant negative impact on their supply chain.
We are just not a large enough market to sustain an unsubsidised car manufacturing industry - in fact not many countries are. The USA and all the European countries subsidise their car industries.
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The USA and all the European countries subsidise their car industries.
Look what has happened in Detroit, it is all but a ghost town with most factories moved to Thailand. I read the other day the US used to have over 50 car manufacturing facilities in the boom time, now they only have 3. What hope did we have...
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So where will 1 Term Tony find 20,000 jobs in Victoria for untrained people.. cause things are looking up for people in the car building industry...
Sorry, but I see this as a large step to nowhere. I see a very sad bleak future for my kids in this country now.
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D4D and Pipeliner, you are missing the point - as Hairs says, it is all a Union Labor plot... a view which conveniently ignores that both the Union and Workers agreed with GMH to alter working conditions, but GMH chose to pull the pin anyway - but only after Hockey effectively 'dared' them to.
Once GMH decided to go the demise of Toyota was inevitable, although several 'brilliant' decicisions by that firm, such as introducing the Dodo Avalon to the Aussie market and ending assembly of the Corolla here didn't do much to put them on a sound footing.
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So where will 1 Term Tony find 20,000 jobs in Victoria for untrained people.. cause things are looking up for people in the car building industry...
Sorry, but I see this as a large step to nowhere. I see a very sad bleak future for my kids in this country now.
When he was rabbitting on the other day about this being an 'opportunity' he cited that Coles are opening 2 new supermarkets in Melbourne and another in Geelong. FFS!
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http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/working-class-dreams-fade-as-jobs-dry-up-20140207-3278n.html (http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/working-class-dreams-fade-as-jobs-dry-up-20140207-3278n.html)
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Pretty much sums up what I was saying Mace, innovate or die. Sad but it is the reality we live in.
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D4D, notice that there is no minister for science in the federal government any more? Doesn't really instil confidence in the future. When government is run at the behest of vested interests science gets in the way sometimes. No point in having a minister for a department that you just ignore, it could cause political embarrassment. So why do we have a minister for industry?
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Are we blaming D4D are we?
And I didn't even vote for him. See people - democracy does not work! (KB)
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The last 20 or so years have been the wealthiest this country has ever seen, we are now being caught by other countries who want some of that wealth too. We need to out innovate them or we will be left behind. The CSIRO have been saying this for ages, we need to step up in the sciences to pave the way for a new avenue of wealth after the cheap labour and resources dry up...
Now just wait a moment while we organize a union to sort you out with what you can and can't do and how much it's going to cost ya to do it. lol
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Oh boy I wasn’t going to reply because there are so many views on this, but here goes.
For my background I have been involved in supplying the MVI (motor vehicle industry) and Tier suppliers for 14+ years. Both here and worked with some OS. I have worked and liasoned with industry groups and unions.
Bit of background so you understand some things. Senator Button (labor senator) introduced the “button plan” which many blame started the rot. Button was a clever guy and a practical guy IMO. He forced the car companies to start getting productivity in place and making more modern cars. Unfortunately at the same time his greedy boss decided on the FBT (fringe benefits tax) this was the first blow to local manufacturers. At that stage the majority of Falcondores made were sold to companies, after that local cars sales started a slide as industry invented ways of circumventing FBT ie car allowances and salary sacrificing we have today, of course once the choice became part of the employees they decided on what they wanted from ALL the manufacturers.
Unfortunately Button was the last clever guy from the government. After that successive idiots have just handed money over to the MVI without very little thought as to a return or assurances. During the GFC the independent transmission factory at Albury got into debt after SsangYong didn't come through with promised funds (you would not believe how many contracts are agreed to and done on wishy washy promises in the MVI) this was the only other independent transmission factory in the world beside ZF, the knowledge and IP there was staggering. They required about $30-50M to be saved, no amount of pleading by industry or the AMWU could get the government to budge, it let the Chinese Auto giant Geely buy it. Geely have since reduced employment at Albury but duplicated the line in China twice! No wonder the union was so quick to sharpen knifes on Rudd a year later, at the same time he gave GM and Ford millions without any real assurances, Howard did little for Manufacturing but considering labor is supposedly the workers party their last 5 years is a disgrace in regards to industry. The car companies’ decisions were largely made then. Ford had the fiesta manufacturing platform coming here in 2007 before cancelling in 2008. I never found out the reason, but the thing with small cars is there less money. It doesn’t cost much more to manufacture a $80,000 commodore than it does a $20,000 box when it comes to raw materials and assembly. But the profits are sooo much more. So manufacturing the Corolla here with a higher labor and utilities cost doesn’t work. We need to be making BMW and merc type cars to cover costs
I found the AMWU receptive to things that would help the MVI like B&B posted above, there was a guy called Dave Smith who worked very hard, unfortunately reform came a too late I think. Where the unions where complicit IMO was on the floor where they protected workers who should have been let go. I recall a situation where Ford had an employee damaging equipment by incorrect use (not maliciously) just because he didn’t want to change! Management were pleaded with but nobody would take this guy to task, Productivity lost!
Toyotas fate was sealed years ago, after the glass makers closed, Toyota don’t like having a manufacturing plant anywhere in the world where they have to import glass. I think they continued because they didn’t want to be the first to pull out.
So sadly we are here now, the loss to Australia is the skills, yes the unskilled employees are a loss. But think of all the “smart” things the clever people will invent and how few toolmakers and machinists will be around to make those “smart’ things. The cochlear implant, the ventracor artificial heart (another Aussie company Rudd let go during the GFC), etc etc all require lots of good tradesmen who in previous years were trained in the MVI, the armaments industry, the railway workshops. All now gone?
The great countries of the worlds have largely all been the great manufacturers at one stage.
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D4D, notice that there is no minister for science in the federal government any more? Doesn't really instil confidence in the future. When government is run at the behest of vested interests science gets in the way sometimes. No point in having a minister for a department that you just ignore, it could cause political embarrassment. So why do we have a minister for industry?
Anyone notice that Cadbury gets 16mill to help update their plant in Tassie but nothing for SPC funny that.
When you think about the payroll tax they pay for their 4000 employees the tax the government makes off its products as well as keeping 4000 people off the doll cue I wonder what that will amount to in just one year and then five.
Have a look at the following pic as well little bit wrong don't you think, I guess they have shares in Tony inc.
Oh and dont worry jayco owners Tony will save you :-P
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The most worrying thing about all this is the total lack of strategy and leadership by our government. There is just a blind belief that the free market will sort it out. So we are going to dig up stuff and send it overseas and maybe grow stuff and send that overseas? And what is the other 60% of the eligible workforce going to do? Where is the vision for Australia's future?
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Correct, it's all unsustainable given enough time.
Kinda like musical chairs. There isn't enough to go around and when the music stops someone gets a chair at the expense of someone else. If there ever is enough to go around, or more to the point if everyone has 'enough', we'd vaporise in an instant :D
People are talking about the 'rise' of China, but history shows China was once the biggest, then the music stopped for a few centuries, now they on the way back. Don't for a moment believe that any of the 'first world' economies can't become a third world economy in a few short years.
Remember when a 'blue-chip' company made a consistent and reliable profit decade after decade? People put there money in to get a better return than the banks, and were happy to leave it there and ride the small ups and downs. Nowadays if a company doesn't make a profit, and increase that profit exponentially year after year, people pull their money out and an otherwise perfectly good company goes down the drain.
The truly scary thing is that the world economy is based on nothing more than how investors 'feel and has very little factual basis. What tempers things these days is the sheer size and number of players in that economy who can't react as fast as others.
Consider gold as an example. It doesn't 'do' anything. Sure it has industrial uses, but most of it's 'value' is based on nothing more tha "Oooh look, its shiney". Gold isn't even a very good investment as you only get a return when you sell it. But people still flee to gold when they get scared.
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The last few posts have convinced me that there are some far more intelligent persons here on myswag than on the floor of current and past parliaments.
Innovation and productivity live hand in hand.
Time for a myswagger in Parliament.
:cheers:
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The last few posts have convinced me that there are some far more intelligent persons here on myswag than on the floor of current and past parliaments.
Innovation and productivity live hand in hand.
Time for a myswagger in Parliament.
:cheers:
Hold on Al, Speewa hadn't posted yet :)
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Hold on Al, Speewa hadn't posted yet :)
I reckon speewaa would make a great candidate, he alone can erect a shower tent unaided.
He knows what the common man thinks (no Jamie, you ain't common) because he lives the dream!
8)
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He made his campaign speech at Nymboida.
110% rebate on diesel....... ;D ;D
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My $2 worth.
We can all blame the Govt, the tariffs and have ideas what we should do to stop Australian companies folding but at the end of the day it is us the consumer who will dictate who survives and who does not in today's economy. We have the final say. Do we spend more and buy Australian and help the economy and Australian businesses or do we continue to buy off Ebay and imported items. As we are talking about the car industry , why do we buy the imported cars. If ford or holdern make a similar vehicle why did we not buy from them. Was it the quality, the price or something else. At the end of the day it's the price.
Yes naturally not all products can be purchased in Australia but honestly if the same identical item is available but dearer and Australin made, would we all buy it. Yes some would but the majority would not. It shows on this forum our spending habits with deals obtained overseas. I think we can be a bit cynical sometimes. No disrespect.
The old saying support Australian made, but do we....
Mark
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My $2 worth.
We can all blame the Govt, the tariffs and have ideas what we should do to stop Australian companies folding but at the end of the day it is us the consumer who will dictate who survives and who does not in today's economy. We have the final say. Do we spend more and buy Australian and help the economy and Australian businesses or do we continue to buy off Ebay and imported items. As we are talking about the car industry , why do we buy the imported cars. If ford or holdern make a similar vehicle why did we not buy from them. Was it the quality, the price or something else. At the end of the day it's the price.
Yes naturally not all products can be purchased in Australia but honestly if the same identical item is available but dearer and Australin made, would we all buy it. Yes some would but the majority would not. It shows on this forum our spending habits with deals obtained overseas. I think we can be a bit cynical sometimes. No disrespect.
The old saying support Australian made, but do we....
Mark
Your right Mark but re cars we don't make fourbies, that's a whole another story. If I wanted a sedan I would buy a Falcon GE6 in a heartbeat, great value car for <$40k.
my suggestion years ago. Stop giving the car companies money and subsidise the locally made cars directly according to content. Ie falcon/territory most local content $12k cash back from govt to purchaser. Commodore $8k etc etc then we are not giving money to car manufacturers but encouraging production. More numbers = cheaper production = more profits win win win.
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That's what I figured. So if there is no manufacturing here, what are the tarrifs protecting. I'm all for supporting Aussie made where I can, but as I can't stop holden, ford, Toyota from ceasing manufacturing here, then I would hope that the tarrifs which turn a $35000 BMW into a $50000 BMW are lifted.
I can't see these taxes going though, why would they it makes the government money. And after all cars are ported then that's even more money.
Cheers
Evo
Tariffs for imported cars range from 0 to 5% only at present. Most of the increase in car vehicle prices are actually from Australian Gov't Taxes, e.g., Luxury Car Tax for vehicles over $60316, stamp duties, GST of 10% etc etc. Your $35000 BMW only has a maximum increase to its price of $1750 due tariffs.
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perhaps if the FBT was used as button wanted i.e support the ossie car industry and not the imported cars it may of seen all gov depts driving FORDS and HOLDENS . But perhaps there was a do gooder who said all playing fields must be level. WHERE ARE THEY NOW ?? and is it level or are we now a dumping ground for cheap untried cars, which will no doubt evolve over time into great cars but a bit of pain in the mean time, might buy another ford longreach ute for spares :cheers:
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Well the car plants are stuffed .... its looking like we should innovate and build our own .......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi3G1OIjYvo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi3G1OIjYvo)
OK the first clip is a bit of humour this next one has a bit of creation that could be done here and create jobs in industry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tdWFTpObmc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tdWFTpObmc)
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and it starts...
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/call-to-drop-tariffs-on-imported-cars/story-e6frfku9-1226824360039 (http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/call-to-drop-tariffs-on-imported-cars/story-e6frfku9-1226824360039)
The federal government has been urged to axe the tariffs on imported vehicles after Toyota's decision to cease making cars in Australia from 2017.
The Australian Automobile Association says the estimated $1 billion a year the government receives from the 5 per cent tariff should be returned to consumers.
"If tariffs were designed to help protect the local industry then there is no longer any justification to maintain them," association chief executive Andrew McKellar told ABC radio on Wednesday.
The AAA estimates the removal of tariffs could save the average new car buyer up to $2000.
Imported vehicles make up about 90 per cent of the new-car market.
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and it starts...
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/call-to-drop-tariffs-on-imported-cars/story-e6frfku9-1226824360039 (http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/call-to-drop-tariffs-on-imported-cars/story-e6frfku9-1226824360039)
The federal government has been urged to axe the tariffs on imported vehicles after Toyota's decision to cease making cars in Australia from 2017.
The Australian Automobile Association says the estimated $1 billion a year the government receives from the 5 per cent tariff should be returned to consumers.
"If tariffs were designed to help protect the local industry then there is no longer any justification to maintain them," association chief executive Andrew McKellar told ABC radio on Wednesday.
The AAA estimates the removal of tariffs could save the average new car buyer up to $2000.
Imported vehicles make up about 90 per cent of the new-car market.
This is only the beginning.
The drawn out exit of these Manufacturers is to ensure all avenues are explored before the final nail is hammered in.
Watch this space
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People people people. You are all missing one very important point. At every election, be it federal or state, the result is always the same. A dam politian gets voted in. >:( Kevin
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People people people. You are all missing one very important point. At every election, be it federal or state, the result is always the same. A dam politian gets voted in. >:( Kevin
na, I don't think theres been a genuine politician in decades. Just some fat **** with his own agenda to get his lifetime supply of freebys, and screw the lemmings.
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Krisandkev. So what options are available to change this?
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Very sad to completly loose an industry. Unfortantly the writing has been on the wall for years, which past goverments of both parties have not seemed to do anything to help protect the industry.
Dont know where 50,000 people are going to get employment either - job adverts slowly sinking so not looking good on that front. And wasnt Abbot talking about welfare reform at some point......Most likely happen just in time for the plant closures.
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Krisandkev. So what options are available to change this?
I wish I knew. But I hope that most think they are doing the right thing. It must be one of the most difficult jobs with so many differing opinions. Seriously, I could not do it. Maybe what we need is a female to run the country ;D Kevin
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I wish I knew. But I hope that most think they are doing the right thing. It must be one of the most difficult jobs with so many differing opinions. Seriously, I could not do it. Maybe what we need is a female to run the country ;D Kevin
We had that it didn't work either.
For once I would like to see someone who is just a normal bloke/gal with some smarts about them (like some on here) end up in a position to really fix things.
IMO drop the salary that politicians get to the national average and get rid of the "paid for life" BS and I honestly think we would actually get some people in who are there to make a difference not just for the publicity.
Cheers
Evo
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If they dropped the salaries and the entitlements, then no one would do it!
No matter what decision you make, you would always be 50% wrong! Even if you are 90% right (pun intended) there may be 10% minority who would would scream so loud that the other 90% would start to change their minds!
Nah they can keep it.
Maybe they need to be paid more to get a better class of person as a Polly? Or does that just mean that more try to rort the system.
There is no answer. Just live your life and make the best of what you can.
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na, I don't think theres been a genuine politician in decades. Just some fat **** with his (or her) own agenda to get his (or her) lifetime supply of freebys, and screw the lemmings.
There ya go.....fixed...... ;D
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Maybe the Guv vermin should introduce a national works program .... After all we arnt spending 10's off millions $ on propping up companies that fritter the hand outs away and no troop deployments and operations in Afghanistan etc at the moment, cut back in Aid programs and spend that cash saved here on infrastructure... Water, gas, road, rail corridore from Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney all the way up the Eastern coast to Cooktown... etc etc
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Maybe the Guv vermin should introduce a national works program .... After all we arnt spending 10's off millions $ on propping up companies that fritter the hand outs away and no troop deployments and operations in Afghanistan etc at the moment, cut back in Aid programs and spend that cash saved here on infrastructure... Water, gas, road, rail corridore from Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney all the way up the Eastern coast to Cooktown... etc etc
again, don't bring logic into this...
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what about the high speed rail network between Brisbane and Melbourne? Retrain xxx amount of people to help with the construction and maintenance of the lines, Get the manufacturers of parts to adjust to parts for high speed trains, and build the trains here.
plus then you have all the customer service jobs, management jobs, etc etc.
If everyone from the big 3 were retrained then there wouldn't be any job losses?
Ok a few might have to move, but there are worse things in the world
I know not as simple as that, but If it wanted to be done it could be done.
Cheers
Evo
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what about the high speed rail network between Brisbane and Melbourne? Retrain xxx amount of people to help with the construction and maintenance of the lines, Get the manufacturers of parts to adjust to parts for high speed trains, and build the trains here.
plus then you have all the customer service jobs, management jobs, etc etc.
If everyone from the big 3 were retrained then there wouldn't be any job losses?
Ok a few might have to move, but there are worse things in the world
I know not as simple as that, but If it wanted to be done it could be done.
High Speed train - who would use it? There would have to be return for the investment of X billion$ for the investors -cause the Gov wont do it.. Soon as you have private enterprise involved it needs turn massive profits to be viable.... Unless it was a 20yr plan for return on investment I couldn't see it being cheap as airfares - which get you there in 2-3 hours.
But something has to change I agree - I am nowhere near as confident of my kids futures in this country as I was as little as 10 years ago. I see a very bleak future for kids in this country now.
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Imagine the lobbying by vested interests (airports and airlines, not to mention the owners of tills marine airport carpark against
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Oops. Spellchecker. Tullamarine airport owners. We can't even get a rail link to the airport in melbourne.
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We can't even get a rail link to the airport in melbourne.
Who would use it? Nobody uses the Sydney one and its expensive.
I'm leaving home with 2 kids and 5-8 suitcases heading for the airport to go to USA... **DING DING DING** I'll take the train! YAY!
I start with a walk to the bus stop with bags, kids and ****... Get on the bus carrying the suitcases and kids, then the Franskton line train carrying the suitcases and kids again with no trolleys to town where I'll get robbed.
Then cause the train is 45 mins late or diverted finally get to Flinders St...
Sprint to another train 20 platforms and 3 levels over, while trying to keep kids and suitcases together.
Find suitcases and kids, and run up the platform to the airport for that 6am flight that has to be there at 4am....
Miss my flight cause that train was late too - I'm down $8000 - and have the pleasure of doing it in reverse to get home with screaming kids and wanting to stab anyone that looked at me.
When theres a shuttle bus for $40 from Franga, or taxi for ~$120 or limo for $80.
Jam that well and truly up your ring...
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Train services to airports work well the world over. The Narita express from Tokyo intl airport to Tokyo is great is designed to accommodate travelers and luggage. The Sydney airport link is very successful in terms of people using it just a tad expensive for what it is. Don't believe everything you read
In Japan fast trains are slowly taking market share of domestic air travel each year. A fast train Syd to Mel via Canberra would be great.
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In the past I have been a frequent business traveller to Sydney. I would definitely use a train link to the airport as long as the service frequency was good and the service us reliable. However if there was a high speed rail link right into the city centre, I wouldn't need to go to the airport. These modes of transport won't suit all but if it takes a substantial percentage of cars off the road it will ease overall congestion. Should also ease the parking fees at Tullamarine which I believe are some of the most expensive in the world!
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The Sydney airport link is very successful in terms of people using it just a tad expensive for what it is. Don't believe everything you read
That's surprising, mate of mine flies up there occasionally to visit family , and says regularly he has the train to himself.
as long as the service frequency was good and the service us reliable.
that's where it would fail..
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That's surprising, mate of mine flies up there occasionally to visit family , and says regularly he has the train to himself.
Yeah it can be empty depending on the time, but it's the main east hills line now which even goes out and joins into Campbeltown now and certainly has plenty of passengers at peak. It's just you get screwed $18+ to exit at Dometic or international! Certainly a good service and quick to the city.
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The air train in bne is expensive, but it is a purpose built line with only 2 stops, domestic and international, is aimed at mum and dads on hols as the times don't allow the business commuter to use them unless you fly in the middle of the day, can't remember the last time my boss said, just get to Sydney around lunch time and make sure you catch the 4 o'clock flt
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High speed trains or very fast trains or whatever you want to call them are great in theory but the reality is the infrastructure in the main city's is just not adequate. If I wanted to go from Sydney to Melbourne or to Brisbane, I'm not going to drive to Sydney and park as the fee for long term parking somewhere close to central are going to be more than the trip itself. So I would have to take a train to central. Unfortunately the Sydney -Newcastle line is overcrowded during peak, there is always some sort of work on the line during the weekends which means have to get on a bus to Hornsby and then don't mention the unexpected holdups like accidents, trees falling on the lines, heat causing breakdowns, idiots committing suicide etc etc etc and then let's not forget the unreliability of the NSW public transport system. Trains running late is generally the norm.
They would have to put a high speed rail station somewhere near Newcastle Airport which would make it more accessible for Central Coast, Newcastle, Hunter residents. Land is still pretty cheap around Newcastle airport compaired to capital cities so building large car parks would be cheaper so fees could be cheaper. A dedicated line from the central coast, maitland etc direct to the airport would be needed. That all cost money, the state and federal gov's don't have that sort of cash and if the whole system was privatised then the cost for end users would be astronomical.
I just can't see it ever happening. I'd like to buy I just can't see it.