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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: BLKWDW on December 26, 2013, 09:08:02 AM
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Hey all we recently had 2 companies come out to the house, looking at recladding the outside of the house. First company was formplex using a plastic based cladding with insulation. Cost to do the house and shed was $18500. We had another company come out called panelspan also to give us a seperate quote and they use a steel cladding with insulation and for the house, shed and gabbles was $18600.
They both had done a few houses in the area so we went for a look to see what they looked liked. Well i can say i wasnt that impressed really. None of them looked any better then our current fibro type cladding we have currently on the house. In saying the that a section of the back of the house is just hardiplank which we used for the outside walls on the addition so 2 different looks and the shed is in need of new walls regardless really.
So my question really is it worth spending the money on getting the everything done when apart from a few parts it wont look any better?
Would we be better of just fixing the shed up or possibly replacing it with new steel one as it was an extra 4k to include the shed.
Are there other options for r doing the external walls that are a similar price or possibly less like getting the house rendered which i really love.
Whats your opinions.
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When I was younger (no experience with houses) I bought a house that was Formplex clad, never again. When trying to sell it every potential buyer wondered what was behind it (covered up) and it reduced the eventual sale price. It looks very 70's and I liken it to the fake brick panels that were also around at that time. For $18K that's a lot of paint and a freshen up for your existing exterior.
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Yeh i know what you mean. I would like the new addition to look the rest of the house though or maybe we should embrace its difference and make it a feature part of the backyard. this is the stuff panel span use but it looks exactly the same
http://www.pictonbros.com.au/Panelspan-Steelform-Exterior-Cladding (http://www.pictonbros.com.au/Panelspan-Steelform-Exterior-Cladding)
This is our house now
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/vswgn/1422881_10151772418889912_556694889_n_zpsf0c0aabe.jpg) (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/vswgn/media/1422881_10151772418889912_556694889_n_zpsf0c0aabe.jpg.html)
I was also thinking the extra 4-5k it was going to cost to do the shed we would be better of putting up a new colourbond shed for the same or less money.
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Have you considered recladding in colour bond corrigated sheeting,as it can look great when done well. Also consider some of the various weathertex or hardies cladding,needs painting but can look great also.
With my brother [carpenter]and I [plumber] we have just reclad mums old 1950 fibro house in a combo of weathertex millwood profile and some corri sheets and looks a treat amongst the new knock down rebuild houses in her street.
The problem with the type of cladding you have been quoted they will always look like a fibro house that has been reclad.
Get a quote from a carpenter for recladding in an alternative.
Or leave it as it is and spend the money on a camper and trip or two
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When I was younger (no experience with houses) I bought a house that was Formplex clad, never again. When trying to sell it every potential buyer wondered what was behind it (covered up) and it reduced the eventual sale price. It looks very 70's and I liken it to the fake brick panels that were also around at that time. For $18K that's a lot of paint and a freshen up for your existing exterior.
+1
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Blueboard and render could work for you if you want a render look.
There is also a system where polystyrene panels are used for cladding (and insulation) which is then rendered.
You could use old fashioned weatherboard too, which I like.
Best bet is to settle on a look you like and then look for a product/system that will give it
Note that any time you change the overall wall thickness, it gets fiddly and costly to blend in doors and windows, so try and keep the overall wall thickness. Once the cladding is off you can usually insulate the walls easily.
So many choices.
Ras
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The polystyrene panels are not a Nationally compliant external cladding, they are still being regarded as an alternate solution with many failing to maintain a waterproof barrier due to the render failing. Which is causing quite a few $thousand in associated repairs. :o
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One of my good mates had the polystyrene panels and I have seen alot of homes done with it and it looks crap.
If you want render use blue board, but I don't think its characteristic of your house.
I think for the style of your house fibro with vertical timber strips would look good or weatherboards. Hardies have a newish profile weatherboard out which looks really nice.
Good luck. :cheers:
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..........Hardies have a newish profile weatherboard out which looks really nice.
I agree. I have a mate that used Hardie weatherboards for his new build in a fire prone area. They look very smart.
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I do like the look of corrugated iron cladding if it is done right. Done wrong makes your house look like a shed. Plus you need to pick your area to do it, in a flash residential area might look out of place.
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I do like the look of corrugated iron cladding if it is done right. Done wrong makes your house look like a shed. Plus you need to pick your area to do it, in a flash residential area might look out of place.
Used minimally it can compliment what ever your main cladding is, over do it and it looks crap and amateurish. I have it on a rental and it looks sh!t from where its rusting around the bottom cover section. Mini orb is the same and prone to denting.
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The problem with the type of cladding you have been quoted they will always look like a fibro house that has been reclad.
Get a quote from a carpenter for recladding in an alternative.
This.
Problem with these types of claddings is they are a one size fits all product. They need H joiners to join the cladding sheets, internal and external flashings and plastic 'U' trims around windows and doors never look right compared to traditional architraves.
Without knowing your houses age, exact construction or if asbestos is present. Maybe strip the cladding, insulate the walls (if not already done), sisalation and clad with trad weatherboards, Hardi Plank, corrie, or a mixture, fitted with proper corner beads and architraves.
A cheaper way would be to batten straight over the existing sheet and then clad, you just need to be able to trim around windows and doors neatly.
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In short-
DON'T DO IT
Waste
Of
Ffing
Time
And
Money
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Hi,
I wouldn't clad over existing outside skin.
Do it properly, if it needs doing, replace the skin with new, and insulate with rockwool or similar while you have access.
My son took of his tired timber weather-boards and replaced them with a hardiplank product that looked similar but will never rot like the timber did.
With the outside skin off, it was obvious the window frames were rotting as well, so they were replaced with double glazed aluminium units.
Yep! it cost him money, but skinning over the existing structure would have possibly cost more in the long run, and now he has a neat trim job that he knows is sound and will never give him trouble for decades, and will not cause doubt and concern to potential buyers when he comes to sell.
cheers
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Thanks for the replies fellas. I dont think i'm real keen now on going a cladding based product as they all look pretty similar to what we currently have. If i was to change the exterior it would be for a different look i think. Most of the houses in the street are either a nice new modern looking brick house or an old fibro sheet house so a mix of new and crap looking. We fall in the middle. Colourbond sheeting would be nice i think would need to see a few houses done like it first to see.
Other option is to paint what we have. instead of trying to blend in the new renovated section at the rear of the house maybe make it a feature of the backyard(especially once the entertaining area gets done) and rear of the house. Its is a cladding done with hardie plank so similiar look but just different material to what son the house. The extra 5k it was going to cost to have the shed done(included in the 18.5k price) would prob be better of spent of removing the old shed and putting up a new colourbond shed.
The current cladding on the house is in good nick we just need to finish painting what we started 2 yrs ago or just start again.
its alot of money we are borrowing on the house so want to make sure it spent in the best possible way.
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When I was building & doing renos I always advised customers to get a picture of how you like the finished project & work towards that. So I would think that unless you're planning on selling soon, then perhaps do the entertainment area get some quotes to paint the lot & then look at the shed. If you're thinking selling just get a professional to do it. Make sure you 3 quotes
Sent from my XT905 using Tapatalk
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DIY-
http://www.weathertex.com.au/products/weatherboards/primelok/primelok-classic-smooth/ (http://www.weathertex.com.au/products/weatherboards/primelok/primelok-classic-smooth/)
and don't forget to insulate the walls and add reflective laminate before the boards go on. Board plus fibre insulation for convection and conduction and foil laminate for reflection of radiant heat and you'll be snug and very smart looking.
With those Primelok boards once you have a single level run accurately positioned at the bottom you're just clipping the next one on top and fixing its top edge with no exposed fixings.
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If you like the rendered look, why not try cladding in Hebel (http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/Pages/Where-to-use/Houses-external-walls.aspx) and rendering that. It is a light weight concrete product that has insulating properties (both noise and heat/cold) and is easily cut to suit whatever purpose.
Just a thought.
Kit_e
P.S. A nice coat of modern colours would also look good.
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Rendered 'Hebel' or generically Autoclaved Aerated Concrete (AAC) panels do provide a fireproof, high R rating external walling but be aware it is designed to weight bear on the footing with the screw fixing to 20mm top hat steel battens across the studs merely holding the panels laterally as shown-
http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/Pages/Systems-and-Finishes/Hebel-Systems-PowerPanel-houses.aspx (http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/Pages/Systems-and-Finishes/Hebel-Systems-PowerPanel-houses.aspx)
So with a fibro timber frame home you'll either need to provide a strip footing all round or fix a galvanised support lintel to the base of the stud walls in order to support the panels and any stumping problems will need to be addressed as footing movement with AAC will be more problematic than planking alternatives.
Personally I think AAC panel floating in mid air on lintels looks cacky but a feature brick base can overcome that but at greater expense. Like Weathertex, be aware Hardies have one man fixing (apart from the first base plank) planking in very smart finish- http://www.jameshardie.com.au/products/primeline.html (http://www.jameshardie.com.au/products/primeline.html) and it can look great on a feature brick base but where do you stop?
http://www.realestate.com.au/home-ideas/results-facades-brick-weatherboard/list-1 (http://www.realestate.com.au/home-ideas/results-facades-brick-weatherboard/list-1)
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If you like the rendered look, why not try cladding in Hebel (http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/Pages/Where-to-use/Houses-external-walls.aspx) and rendering that. It is a light weight concrete product that has insulating properties (both noise and heat/cold) and is easily cut to suit whatever purpose.
Just a thought.
Kit_e
P.S. A nice coat of modern colours would also look good.
Hebel is yet another product that is not fully compliant to Current building requirements and it is only used as an alternate solution due to render failures, which then allow moisture to enter the building :(
Both Hebel and the Poly companies are working towards achieving a Building Code Compliance stamp.
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I would choose weatherboards. Done properly i think they would suit your house and they always look timeless and tidy.
I would also strip the existing cladding first and install insulation in the walls while you have access to them. You may even want to add extra electrical wiring for power points etc while the walls are open.
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Hebel is yet another product that is not fully compliant to Current building requirements and it is only used as an alternate solution due to render failures, which then allow moisture to enter the building :(
Both Hebel and the Poly companies are working towards achieving a Building Code Compliance stamp.
Really ??? I've done quite a few houses using hebel blocks, and we're installing hebel panels more and more at work in place of blockwork. We've done 2 towers in the Docklands where all internal walls were hebel panels.
I hate the stuff. Lightweight it definitely aint :D
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If it were mine.
I'd update the windows (large windows to the floor) remove old cladding, blue-board
the exterior and synthetic render it using two colours.
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Hebel is yet another product that is not fully compliant to Current building requirements and it is only used as an alternate solution due to render failures, which then allow moisture to enter the building :(
Both Hebel and the Poly companies are working towards achieving a Building Code Compliance stamp.
Huh? There are many considerations to comply with the requirements of the BCA when using rendered AAC panels, just as there are for any cladding product and here's a sample of them with Hebel-
http://moreplas.com.au/residential-walls/external-walls.html (http://moreplas.com.au/residential-walls/external-walls.html)
You meet those requirements and both Hebel and render suppliers like Dulux will back their product but step outside those parameters and you're on your own just like you are with any building product. Most product problems and failures arise because the user doesn't understand fully the underlying requirements for use and there is no such thing as some esoteric Building Code 'Stamp of Approval', just a range of parameters to be met.
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And note the Dulux Acratex coating system is a 3 step process applied by professionals and guaranteed and hence not for the handyman or novice and not some cheap rollon or paint job-
http://www.dulux.com.au/specifier/our-brands/dulux-acratex/system-solutions (http://www.dulux.com.au/specifier/our-brands/dulux-acratex/system-solutions)
It's why I'd stick with those planking options for a timber frame fibro home built to practices that would be extremely difficult to confirm as being up to scratch for Hebel structural requirements nowadays.
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Sounds like a lot are onto the right idea.
Short story - years ago when these plastic, steel and aluminium overcladding cladding systems first came around there were a lot of people jumped to spruce up older houses. Many were under war service home loans (talking 70's, 80's, etc). Part of my Dad's work was as a war service building inspector and insurance assessor. After the work was done people often asked to have their homes reassessed for insurance purpose, etc. Dad would turn up, devalue the house and write down the insured value - and not just a little! Many people were not happy after having just paid a packet to "improve" their house to find it was noticeably devalued. The reasons were simple - the cavity between claddings provide a perfect spot for vermin, decay and corrosion to occur and prevented clear inspection of the actual status of the structure.
In short I would recommend steering clear of the overcladding option.
Have a look at these products after a good hail storm - not pretty. If I recall I don't think war service would insure them for the cladding replacement either just to add further injury.
Deseng.
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Huh? There are many considerations to comply with the requirements of the BCA when using rendered AAC panels, just as there are for any cladding product and here's a sample of them with Hebel-
http://moreplas.com.au/residential-walls/external-walls.html (http://moreplas.com.au/residential-walls/external-walls.html)
You meet those requirements and both Hebel and render suppliers like Dulux will back their product but step outside those parameters and you're on your own just like you are with any building product. Most product problems and failures arise because the user doesn't understand fully the underlying requirements for use and there is no such thing as some esoteric Building Code 'Stamp of Approval', just a range of parameters to be met.
Well going by the National News Alert released by the AIBS (Australian Institute of Building Surveyors) and written advice by the QBCC (Queensland Building and Construction Commission) it has to be approved as an Alternate solution due to the issues I have already raised.
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thanks for the advice everyone, taking it all on board. Still waiting for the assesor to come look at the house before we get the cash but its been pre approved.
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Well cladding is of the agenda. We were only approved for 12k not the 18 we needed. I dont get how they evaluate houses but we have spent more then 20k on the house since moving in and its only worth 12k more in 4-5yrs. So will look into the best ways to spend the cash to hopefully improve the houses worth or spend some and pay of debt with the rest. We paid 148k 4-5yrs ago and now valued at 160k. house across road is a Shitbox and is for sale for 130k.
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If your property value has only risen that little, try reducing your debt on it. If you owned it tomorrow you'd be saving all the interest each week to put into reno's or something else.
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If thats the case were better of not spending it on anything or just our own personal debt. The house needs a bit spent on it to tidy it up but yeh not sure now. New fence, entertaining area and shed would have been nice
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If thats the case were better of not spending it on anything or just our own personal debt. The house needs a bit spent on it to tidy it up but yeh not sure now. New fence, entertaining area and shed would have been nice
I'm not sure I follow your thinking, it's all your own personal debt (house and personal loans) ?
If It were me, consolidate all debt to 1 loan (the house loan, cheapest interest) do the hard yards saving a few $$$ learning to live without cards and small personal loans if thats the case. Put a $100 a month aside for the fence and you'll have it before you know it, if you don't spend it somewhere else. lol
Sorry if that sounds tuff.
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I meant me might be better of spending the money to pay of some of our personal debt we have. We dont have enough to consolidate everything into the house unfortunately. Maybe spend half on house and half on the debt.
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Well cladding is of the agenda. We were only approved for 12k not the 18 we needed. I dont get how they evaluate houses but we have spent more then 20k on the house since moving in and its only worth 12k more in 4-5yrs. So will look into the best ways to spend the cash to hopefully improve the houses worth or spend some and pay of debt with the rest. We paid 148k 4-5yrs ago and now valued at 160k. house across road is a ****box and is for sale for 130k.
That is because of the GFC and decreased housing prices. The money you have put into it should come back to you in time.
It sounds like the bank has not asked the valuer to do an "as if complete" valuation. This is where you supply your quotes to re clad, build the shed and refence and ask them to assess the value as if this work had been done.
I don't agree with consolidating your personal debt into your house. All your are doing is taking a short term loan and turning it into a long term loan. So on the face of it the interest rate may be cheaper but you are paying it off over a much longer period of time.
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
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That is because of the GFC and decreased housing prices. The money you have put into it should come back to you in time.
It sounds like the bank has not asked the valuer to do an "as if complete" valuation. This is where you supply your quotes to re clad, build the shed and refence and ask them to assess the value as if this work had been done.
I don't agree with consolidating your personal debt into your house. All your are doing is taking a short term loan and turning it into a long term loan. So on the face of it the interest rate may be cheaper but you are paying it off over a much longer period of time.
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
couldn't agree more
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That is because of the GFC and decreased housing prices. The money you have put into it should come back to you in time.
It sounds like the bank has not asked the valuer to do an "as if complete" valuation. This is where you supply your quotes to re clad, build the shed and refence and ask them to assess the value as if this work had been done.
I don't agree with consolidating your personal debt into your house. All your are doing is taking a short term loan and turning it into a long term loan. So on the face of it the interest rate may be cheaper but you are paying it off over a much longer period of time.
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
Yep your right mate I just asked the mrs and despite us giving the bank 2 quotes for the cladding they only done an as is valuation. Still with 20k spent on it and with 5yrs of ownership I thought it wuld be worth more maybe I'm being unrealistic then.
So instead of consolidating loans with money wuld u recommend spending it on the house or not borrowing it at all.
What add on would actually add value to a house?
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So you're back to what someone else wrote - paint it up in some modern colour scheme, do the front fence and your BBQ area out the back.
Don't get in to too much more debt and put some hard years in (if possible) to reduce your mortgage a lot. By the time you've done that (5 year plan?) check the valuation again and see where you stand - reassess and do again.
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Yep your right mate I just asked the mrs and despite us giving the bank 2 quotes for the cladding they only done an as is valuation. Still with 20k spent on it and with 5yrs of ownership I thought it wuld be worth more maybe I'm being unrealistic then.
Compared to my house and my real estate market you have done well, consider yourself lucky there, some markets have seen prices cut by half. You may be in an extremely stable kind of market, say like Toowoomba, so may not see huge value growth in a short time frame, but as the market becomes more active, and it is, you will see a shortening of stock. Best way to find out is keep a close eye on For Sale signs you see around the place and see how long it takes for a sold sign to go up.
So instead of consolidating loans with money wuld u recommend spending it on the house or not borrowing it at all.
I don't know enough about your financial position to give an answer and I am not qualified. I do recommend you talk to someone other than your banker though. A financial planners advice can be very helpful. But get recommendations off someone you know who is financially well off and then still research the planner. If they aren't financially well off there advice isn't worth a POS.
If you can comfortably afford to pay the increased mortgage based on your spend plus 2% as a buffer I would seriously consider it, though you have to consider if the bank will give you the coin or not.
What add on would actually add value to a house?
When I was valuing for the banks, I would always look at presentation. Paint is cheap and excellent if your selling. Landscaping looking nice. Affordable things that you can do over time such as updating your plumbing fittings and door handles and light fittings (use an electrician disclaimer) things like that can really improve your salability and don't have to cost alot.
I have just returfed and remulched my garden and planted a crapload of new plants, all up cost was about 4k and because I had a nice house but a sh!t yard I reckon I have added a fair load of value to it.
If there is a decent real estate agent around where you live ask them to come out and give an appraisal, but more importantly ask them what they think buyers in your price bracket are looking for so that you can get a good idea of what you should do. Then ignore the follow up phone calls you get asking you to list the house for sale...or be nice and say you have decided to sit and wait for the market to improve.
Cheers Nomad.
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I don't agree with consolidating your personal debt into your house. All your are doing is taking a short term loan and turning it into a long term loan. So on the face of it the interest rate may be cheaper but you are paying it off over a much longer period of time.
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
IMO there's nothing wrong with consolidating if your serious about having a crack at pumping as much money into it as possible for a period of time, then refinancing. Often finding a better deal while also being easier with only the one debt. With our loan, I can refinance at any time without any fee's but we pay 1% more than the variable rate to be able do this. Handy for business.
I think we agree it's best to reduce the debt as a whole (minimize, reduce), it's no good paying out 100s of thousands in interest on a house that's only gaining value slowly.
This is only MO, as Nomad has suggested you really need to sit down with a professional put your cards on the table and work out a plan. I'm pretty sure it's going to be a case of short term pain for long term gain.
Good luck.
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Thanks for the replies. We have been approved and signed of for the increase of $11500.
We can afford the extra $20 a week repayments which is why we decided to go ahead with it. Where are more leaning towards spending most of the money on the house and maybe leave a bit left over to pay of a small one of our small high interest loans we have. Theres a few things we want done to the house now we just have to sort out what we are better or getting done now and what can wait still.