MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: jetcrew on November 14, 2013, 04:58:52 PM
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DISCLAIMER - I understand that guns are not for everyone and some people think that guns and kids do not mix, I understand and respect your opinion and ask that you afford me the same respect . No replies of why or don't or how many kids are killed by guns each year ect. I am allowed by law to supervise my child under sec 52 of the QLD weapons act
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/w/weaponsa90.pdf (https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/w/weaponsa90.pdf)
Ok Gun users,
I am very fond of the .22 Magnum rounds so I want to add another .22Mag for the collection for ease of ammo and for the 16YO to begin his introduction to firearms. He will start out on a .177 air riffle first to learn muzzle discipline and handling principles. But will step up quickly so i want something ready.
Now I was going to add another lever action .22mag to the mix, but given I want him to learn Military degrees of weapon readiness,unload/load/action/instant I think a bolt action with detachable magazine will be best as he can move through different states of weapon readiness easily. Load to unload , action to unload ect far more easily than a tube feed lever action.
So he is getting the .177 for X-Mas and then will step up to the .22Mag next year when I am satisfied he has the required discipline.
So I am looking for advice on a good .22MAG/WMR riffle.
I have found the
Marlin XT @ $339.00 4 / 7 shot mag
Savage 93 $465.00 5 shot mag
Looking for more options ideas in that price range.
Regards Jet ;D ;D ;D
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Just an opinion here from growing up on a farm
He will go through the air rifle so quick that it will be a waste of money and when he learns to handle it eventually it will be treated like a toy
At his age i would go straight to the 22 as he will understand it is a true cartrige powered fire arm and give it the respect they deserve
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Just an opinion here from growing up on a farm
He will go through the air rifle so quick that it will be a waste of money and when he learns to handle it eventually it will be treated like a toy
At his age i would go straight to the 22 as he will understand it is a true cartrige powered fire arm and give it the respect they deserve
Tend to agree (also grew up on a farm & had a .222 from 10yo)
I had an air rifle that sat in the cupboard from about day 3
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I agree with Chester too. Forget the slug gun and start with the .22
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Again just my 2 cents worth........
I grew with guns and they were a necessary way of life for me. At a very young age I had to know how to respect and handle a firearm. (Not a weapon!!! - A firearm. A weapon is something that is used to hurt or kill people. People kill people not firearms............ Sorry about the OT but I feel strongly about it!)
I agree, go for a .22. You said he was 16. He's not a kid anymore.
As far as choice goes, again just my opinion, but maybe get him to try a few and give him the choice.
Just remember to teach him, that you never load a weapon unless you intent firing it, and never point it at anything you don't intent shooting.
My personal choice for a 16yo 0.17 HMR savage.
Brian
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For a few dollars more you could look at the Ruger bolt rifles -available in 22RF, 17HMR & 22WMR. The actions are identical in function and still the same if you upsize to a .223 etc.
Detachable magazines in the rimfire variety and some centrefire models.
Great quality but a bit more expensive than other brands (Good resale though)
Tim
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Some great points guys..
I have 1 acre of land. from the back patio to the rear fence is 40mtrs the fence is thick gauge roofing iron , behind that is 1klm of dense bush land. I will let you all work out why the .177 ;D ;D ;D ;D
and we have lots and lots of toads ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D
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Toads! A .25 calibre air rifle might be in order - like launching house bricks at them! ;D
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Yep, the 177 may fit the requirement!
If that's the case, then look at the option of a 22 hornet as a step up instead of the magnum. Center fire, which you can reload if you get that keen. Matter of fact, I have an old set of punches and dies, etc you can have.
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With the benefit of more info.......Go the sluggy, shooting toads is excellent sport :) .17HMR is even better for popping them :laugh:
IMO get a .22 cal sluggy as it can be used quite effectively to hunt and has a little more punch with a heavier slug. .177 is great for velocity, but you cant beat projectile weight for good penetration.
Don't be lulled by the propaganda re muzzle velocity etc, many use ultra light slugs etc to produce some fairly outrageous claims. A good .22 with a decent slug at moderate velocity is great for pest birds and bunnies etc.
I have a weirauch air rifle and rate it very highly......like most things you get what you pay for, you can buy cheap ones like a Gamo, and they are not much more than a toy and will quickly be abandoned.
edit to add, pop over to my other home on the web at www.australianhunting.net (http://www.australianhunting.net) and have a browse mate, there are alot of threads on there in a similar vein :cheers:
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I have a .22 cal air rifle under lever. Its a great gun for some of the fun target type stuff. It doesn't have the muzzle velocity of a .177, but its still a fun thing. Thats where my opinion becomes less relevant as my other firearm is a 410 single barrel shotgun.
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I use my Beaman r9 .20 more than any of the others. Kept a gamo .177 for Ryan to learn with. It is chalk and cheese. Gamo is more like a toy...
Renno :cheers:
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Thanks for the GR8 info guys ,I am not one of those people who get all misty about muzzle velocity ;D ;D bit like boxing featherweight vs heavy weight ;D ;D ;D speed and power are not always the same untill you NEED distance, then you sacrifice one for the other ;D ;D or step your size up.
The 17hmr is a great fast flat traj but at 100mtrs IMHO the .22wmr has a better impact at that range. it is that age old speed V's impact.
I will stick with the .22wmr as I have that already and can't see where the advantage lies for me to go 17hmr as it would only be of benefit if I was to hunt game of small size at distances over 100mtrs. this is not likely as I have a 243 that takes care of anything over 100mtrs.
From what i can see and not personally tested .. is that under 100mtrs the .22wmr has a better punch then the 177hmr. over 100mtrs the faster veloicty of the 177hmr puts it out in front.
As for the .177 I was just going to go a cheap gamo $220 inc scope as it will not even accompany us on trips away, as I will, already have 4 riffles with us.
A bit of a play thing for home and a learning aid but when away on trips it's powder only and switch on .
Jet ;D ;D
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Might need one of these for home too ;D ;D
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Max-Target-Knockdown-2-Duck-Resetting-Air-Rifle-Target-Pellet-Trap-Shoot-/171110348955?pt=AU_Hunting&hash=item27d6f8b89b (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Max-Target-Knockdown-2-Duck-Resetting-Air-Rifle-Target-Pellet-Trap-Shoot-/171110348955?pt=AU_Hunting&hash=item27d6f8b89b)
:cheers:
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I have a Marlin .22 mag. Nothing wrong with them. Savage is regarded better quality. For 300 bucks the Marlin would be a good first rifle.
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edit to add, pop over to my other home on the web at www.australianhunting.net (http://www.australianhunting.net) and have a browse mate, there are alot of threads on there in a similar vein :cheers:
Yep, do this, heaps of info!! I spend quite a bit of time there too.
Interestingly, I have .22lr in both the Marlin and the Savage 93, both are good rifles. The Savage is left hand for me, but the Marlin is right for my wife. The boy will probably use this when he is older (still only 4). It can be a topic that gets some heated, but I grew up being taught the discipline of using a gun safely. I think it teaches a kid a great deal about responsibility and I personally can't wait to the time where I can pass this on to my boy!!
Mate I am just down the road from you, give me a yell if you want to have a look to help with the decision making!!
Cheers
Greg
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Mate, just be very careful with the sluggy at home. It's not like it used to be when we were kids.
If someone sees you or your lad with the gun and has a hissy fit then you are in it big time.
The crazy thing is, if I walk outside with a plastic toy kids gun and someone rings the cops and says they are 'scared and feel threatened' then mr plod turns up and takes my firearms!
Crazy world now days.
On the type, all I can say is make sure you get him a 22LR cheapest fun you can have! My little CZ has had thousands of rounds through it. I have a 22 break barrel air rifle but it never gets used. It's got plenty of power for what it is, but it is still quite loud (for shooting toads). In fact the 22LR with the right ammo is actually quieter.
Good luck. It's a good hobby to get him into. Teaches respect and responsibility.
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Toads! A .25 calibre air rifle might be in order - like launching house bricks at them! ;D
Calibre creep rears it head......... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Calibre creep rears it head......... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
LOL too true.......no shooting thread worth reading is immune from it :)
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Theo, Agree with Homer Jay, the world has changed AND you have already had some dramas with the neighbours, haven't you?
Maybe a local gun club is the place for the boy to shoot.
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Go the Savage.
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Theo, Agree with Homer Jay, the world has changed AND you have already had some dramas with the neighbours, haven't you?
Maybe a local gun club is the place for the boy to shoot.
Don't stress guys all is in hand I have access to lots of land near by so no issues, I am not going to turn my back yard into a shooting range ;D ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D ;D
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Don't you love it when your plan goes out the door .
Been to the gunshop and the boy is getting a savage 223 package.
Air riffle was checked as it was $300 for anything good
Could not find any .22wmr that I wanted.
So the 223 at $500 for a package won out.
Now I am seriously considering selling my Winchester lever and getting myself a very nice tika t3 that had pic rail large bolt handle and 15 shot mag . What a nice riffle it was.but at $1400 no scope I need to sell/ trade the whinchester I think .
Now a question for you all
The tika had a very tight riffling twist in the barrel which will give me the ability to punch out 70g rounds but will this mean that 55g will not run so good.
Any feedback on the tika , felt awesome in my hands very smooth and well machined.
Jet ;D
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Don't you love it when your plan goes out the door .
Been to the gunshop and the boy is getting a savage 223 package.
Air riffle was checked as it was $300 for anything good
Could not find any .22wmr that I wanted.
So the 223 at $500 for a package won out.
Now I am seriously considering selling my Winchester lever and getting myself a very nice tika t3 that had pic rail large bolt handle and 15 shot mag . What a nice riffle it was.but at $1400 no scope I need to sell/ trade the whinchester I think .
Now a question for you all
The tika had a very tight riffling twist in the barrel which will give me the ability to punch out 70g rounds but will this mean that 55g will not run so good.
Any feedback on the tika , felt awesome in my hands very smooth and well machined.
Jet ;D
Jet the savage packages are great value, I bought a simalar one a couple of months ago. Don't you just love how a trip to the gunshop ends up costing you two or three rifles? What calibre is the lever action? I have been thinking of one myself.
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Potentially the fast twist barrel may not shoot the lighter pills as well.......depends alot on the rifle. Personally I would not buy a fast twist unless you are looking at long range bench rest comp where the faster twist and heavier pills come into their own.
As an allrounder for small critters a standard 1:12 twist will be just fine for 40 - 55gr pills.
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Jet the savage packages are great value, I bought a simalar one a couple of months ago. Don't you just love how a trip to the gunshop ends up costing you two or three rifles? What calibre is the lever action? I have been thinking of one myself.
It is the Winchester 9422 .22MAGNUM only had 50 rounds through it. ;D ;D ;D
can't believe what they are selling for.
Jet ;D ;D
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Potentially the fast twist barrel may not shoot the lighter pills as well.......depends alot on the rifle. Personally I would not buy a fast twist unless you are looking at long range bench rest comp where the faster twist and heavier pills come into their own.
As an allrounder for small critters a standard 1:12 twist will be just fine for 40 - 55gr pills.
solid advice there mate, this was my concern when they were talking about the heavier pills, so the hunt is now on for a nice 223 for me...
Given the savage axis was $500 I would like to set myself up at around the $1200. the tika was a very nice riffle but the fast twist did have me worried as the whole point of this is to get 2 riffles that can share the same ammo, last thing i want is to start to carry 2 types of 223.
My list is
223
synthetic stock
external magazine (bigger the better)
Jet ;D ;D
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wow oh wow I had no idea my head would hurt this much LOL
so in 223 I need to decide in twist rate and ammo weight/size, so looking at the savage axis I bought the young fella and how cheap you can buy 55gr ammo I would like something capable of a 40g - 70g round as anything larger I will break out the 243.
So from my research
1:12 does the lighter stuff but will tumble a heavy round
1:9 a good all-rounder doing most grains
1:8 good for the heavy stuff but no good on the 40-55grain and the barrel wears quick
Am i on the right track as some forums people say that the 1:8 will fire a 55gr no prob out to 200.
Hey GangG can you PM your number so I can pick your brains . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D
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I grew up with 22's and learnt to shoot with a Remington from a very early age.
I now have a healthy respect for firearms, so I think your boy will be in good hands.
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PM Done :)
Am i on the right track as some forums people say that the 1:8 will fire a 55gr no prob out to 200.
Sorta :) it will either shoot the pill accurately or not........the distance is a little bit irrelevant.
Do you handload? If not just go 1:12, as most readily available factory ammo is going to be 40,50 or 55grain perfect for rabbits to roo's (most states have a 55gr min for roo's)Save yourself the pain of something designed for a niche market and have fun IMO :)
I am a fan of the .243 even though I dont currently own one.........they are a versatile little round :)
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Ok bit of an update.
I did manage to find a Tika T3 lite in Stainless with a 1:12 twist..so I am very happy , put deposit down yesterday ;D ;D (browns plains gun shop of all places)
So Myself and son will both have 223 that can fire 40-60g ammo but will stick to 50-55g ammo.
So now the Scope dilemma comes into play ;D ;D
I am thing of the Leopold VX1 3-9x40 ...this seems like a good all round balance for the riffle, considering I am not trying to shoot at 400mts and being a T3 lite I want it for foot patrol and target at upto 200 mtrs and the abilty to shoulder and acquire easily.
I know the bigger stuff will be nice on the bench rest at distance but i want an all rounder for my scope , and lots of reading suggests that this is a good scope for my purpose, any advice from you guys. ;D ;D ;D
Jet ;D
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I have had a Krico 22wmr for the last 35 years and it has a Tasco 3-9 x 40 scope. Great rifle out to about 120 metres and has dropped foxes at around 200. I cannot complain about the Tasco but am not sure if the current models are the same (or better) build quality than the one I bought all those years ago.
It is a good combo though.
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G,Day JCrew, Have you thought of looking [ pun not intended ] at an Ocluded eye style of sight [ Shoot with both eyes open ] I used to use an Armson OEG gun sight and found it so much better than telescopic sights, you still have your peripheral vision to pick up other targets and can shoot on the move easily... Easy way to explain them is to look at something both eyes open and hold up a finger between your eyes and what youre looking at, you can then see through your finger .. in the sight is a red or green dot that can be adjusted left / right up / down just like a regular telescopic sight .. raise rifle red or green dot on target and
sqeeze of a shot ..
The bit with the clear cover is the front of the sight .this vieo sort of explains it better but is a different type of sight.
Shooting With Both Eyes Open: The Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpGSKKgWWks#ws)
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Have you thought of looking [ pun not intended ] at an Ocluded eye style of sight [ Shoot with both eyes open ]
Great fun with the above or a red dot style sight. I'm in the process of building up a rimfire bunny buster - waiting for a Redfield 'Counter-Strike' red dot to turn up.
I used to use a red dot on my handguns and shotguns when shooting competitively.
For a rimfire a small 3moa dot doesn't inhibit them much on rabbits at medium to close ranges.
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Like anything mechanical and techincal there are many internet measurbators.
The main thing is to get out there and have a go, what ever you get will work, when you/your son get better and can actually tell the difference upgrade.
I'd go a 3-9x50, basically because it lets in a bit more light at dusk and dawn.
Speak to Joel from www.4scopes.com (http://www.4scopes.com), much better prices than in Oz, it will cost you $50 delivery to Australia.
As for 223 ammo keep an eye out for Hornady steelmatch, comes in boxes of 50 for around $30. Perfect for high velocity lead injections for roos ;D
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Update--
got the PTA form back for the sons 223 savage axis in the mail today so will collect his this week ;D ;D and sneak a pic for ya.
Still waiting on my PTA for the Tika, I have about 90% decided on a 3-9 X 40 Leopould VX2. Found one on-line at a local gun store who are renowned for never having stock so will have to call up and see if they have any or are just listing low prices to get customers calling them up.
So that will sort my riffle out nicely. ;D ;D and a good bit of fun for us over x-mas period at the range zeroing them in.
Thanks to all for your input, I got a new safe delivered the other day 400KGs had to get the neighbour to bring his bob cat in to get it off the trailer. ;D ;D good luck moving it to any would be thief's.
Jet ;D ;D
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I have a couple of lupy vx2 3-9x40 and I think they are a top scope for the money.
I usually buy mine from 'the rifle scope store' always had good service and reasonable prices. I try and avoid the local shop....... For reasons you probably know!
Do you guys know about the Rocksberg range? Probably a good place to take your young bloke for a local shoot if you need to sight in the new toy.
Might save a drive drown to south side.
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I have a couple of lupy vx2 3-9x40 and I think they are a top scope for the money.
I usually buy mine from 'the rifle scope store' always had good service and reasonable prices. I try and avoid the local shop....... For reasons you probably know!
Do you guys know about the Rocksberg range? Probably a good place to take your young bloke for a local shoot if you need to sight in the new toy.
Might save a drive drown to south side.
Is the range open ..I know there was some objection..can't find any info online except the web site but no numbers to call.
The VX2 is $411 at the place I hate shop, but the actually have it in stock and cheaper than the rest, can you recommend a decent shop on the north side.
Jet ;D
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He is a kid and accidents will happen go with the cheapest scope possible for starters. Till he figures out how sensitive it is
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The leupold scopes have a lifetime warranty, so I reckon get him a good one to start with, teach him how to look after it and he'll be set.
Have fun and be safe.
Paulo
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Might save a drive drown to south side.
I hear there is a good camping ground at Belmont. Just a bit noisy on Saturday mornings :laugh: :laugh:
Live just around the corner from it but over the hill a bit so don't get the noise.
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He is a kid and accidents will happen go with the cheapest scope possible for starters. Till he figures out how sensitive it is
Sorry should have been clearer ;D
His Savage axis comes in a package with scope (can't even remember what it is)
the VX2 is to sit on my Tika T3 ;D ;D ;D
Got a call today from gun shop and they can offer me the T3 in black syn or factory timber laminate , I am seriously thing of the laminate jobbie.
So now the Mrs wants to learn to shoot as well ;D ;D so the hunt is back on for a 22WMR , I will allow about $500 all up with scope for a package so what's your thoughts on them , I have been told I will need to order and wait for it as 22wmr is in low supply ATM.
seen a savage model 93 22wmr stainless varmiteer at $445 second hand with scope in VGC,
Jet ;D ;D
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Heres a HOLY CR*P rifle for you JC
Shooting The Largest Rifle Ever Made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0CBaW9FEI#ws)
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Sorry should have been clearer ;D
His Savage axis comes in a package with scope (can't even remember what it is)
the VX2 is to sit on my Tika T3 ;D ;D ;D
Got a call today from gun shop and they can offer me the T3 in black syn or factory timber laminate , I am seriously thing of the laminate jobbie.
So now the Mrs wants to learn to shoot as well ;D ;D so the hunt is back on for a 22WMR , I will allow about $500 all up with scope for a package so what's your thoughts on them , I have been told I will need to order and wait for it as 22wmr is in low supply ATM.
seen a savage model 93 22wmr stainless varmiteer at $445 second hand with scope in VGC,
Jet ;D ;D
the only problem I've found with the laminate is the weight they are generally a fair bit heavier than synthetic or timber,something to consider if you are going to do a bit of walking with it.
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EDZ,
that would be good for Lara's first shoot .....not ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ..holy crap that was huge
Jet ;D ;D
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the only problem I've found with the laminate is the weight they are generally a fair bit heavier than synthetic or timber,something to consider if you are going to do a bit of walking with it.
Sound advice ..the whole point of getting the T3 Lite was for walking ect will have a feel of them before comitting either way, unlike a marriage at least it will still feel the same as time goes on ...LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Maybe teaching Lara to shoot is not such a good idea ....I will have to behave more
Jet ;D
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My wife didn't want guns in the house. Now she owns 4 of her own, including 2 revolvers, and she's keen on me buying a 45/70 Sharps that she'll shoot, too. :cup:
Marksmanship is a really fun family activity and fits well with our (MySwag members collectively) love of the outdoors.
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Jet
Try Caboolture Firearms mate,
Best part is they are just down the road!!!!!
Greg