MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: McGirr on November 13, 2013, 07:35:03 PM
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With new models of 4wd having so much electronics in them and the costs to repair basic things getting so expensive is it heading to the stage where its getting to be a rich persons hobby.
After having to get a new motor and new air conditioning system in my 2000 model cruiser ($11,000) it seems some of the costs of late model 4wd's is getting ridiculous for the basic repair items.
Yes we spend a certain amount to modify our beloved 4wd to equip them to tackle places we want to explore but the costs to repair, replace things seems to be getting very expensive.
Is it getting to the point where people look at buying older models or SUVs to enjoy going camping. Add a camper, which can vary from $5,000 to $80,000 plus camping extras (solar panels, generators, lights etc) and its becoming an expensive hobby. Also don't forget the fuel needed.
Also add in how often the 4wd is used and also how often the camper is used.
Naturally everyone's circumstances vary.
I think we are a dying breed.
Mark
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One of the issues is that we keep getting things to make life easy and what were once luxuries to be enjoyed at home we want to take with us. This seems to defeat the purpose of getting away from it all and getting back to nature.
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Just my 22.2 cents worth, but I reckon every hobby is expensive............
Its just a case of what you are willing to pay to enjoy it.
Some people pay a pittance and get a large reward, while others aren't satisfied till they have the biggest and the best.
Then of course there's the majority that sit somewhere in the middle.
I love 4wdíng and camping as does my whole family, so I'm prepared to spend money to satisfy us all.
I also like to be comfortable and don't want to "rough it"
I'm supposed to be relaxing so why would I be more uncomfortable than if I stayed at home?
Hence the playdo and glamper (and possible new glamper soon)
Just my take on it....
Cheers
Brian
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I agree, it is getting very expensive but the way I look at it is you get to see and go to some wonderful places that you would not be able to in a WRX!
For me I like this to be my bad habit so then I don't (can't) have any others..... Should say motorbikes take any left overs ;D
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I sold my CT and can't find one I want and am now in the mind as to whether I even want one.
Happy to hire one if and when I need it. Let someone else own it and store it and mod it.
Lately I have been camping very simply.
I have two small BCF tents ($30 each)
water bladder at the kids feet.
fridge and portable lighting
basic table and chairs.
We are having more fun, set up is not stressful and takes about half an hour from getting out of the car to getting into a beer.
I camped at Inskip on the weekend and I thought I was camping lean when a bloke walked in with a tent, an esky and a backpack. Not to mention his wife and young kid.
So it can still be a very cheap exercise.
As for modding or keeping car repaired it all depends on how its treated / age / what work its done before. But I agree if your not able to do things yourself and go to the local arb / tjm or whoever then your going to pay stupid money.....i.e turn a 60k prado into a 80k / 90k hero vehicle.........all the gear no idea......for most people thinking about lockers / winches etc etc etc is just a waste of time and money.
:cheers:
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I totally agree. Things are changing too fast in the auto industry and change costs money. The end user pays for this in the end. I guess it is the consumers own fault as we continually demand more gadgets with each new model. At least that's what the manufacturers think we want.
It's a huge risk these days buying a used 4wd out of warranty and if something major dies like an electronic transmission' it can easily end up costing more than you paid for it real quick.
I often thought about designing a heavy duty bare bones 4wd that uses parts that are readily available and most importantly, cheap. No fancy pants electronics or systems but strong and reliable and able to be repaired in the bush. body panels that are as flat as possible. Something along the lines of a Land rover but even stronger and less gimmicks.
Some of the old tractors are a good example. Other than seals and filters etc., they go forever. Why can't we have a 4wd like that?
The only thing stopping me is not having access to Clive Palmer's bank account to fund the development.
Oh well, maybe in my next lifetime I'll get around to it.
Steve
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 4
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I often thought about designing a heavy duty bare bones 4wd that uses parts that are readily available and most importantly, cheap. No fancy pants electronics or systems but strong and reliable and able to be repaired in the bush. body panels that are as flat as possible. Something along the lines of a Land rover but even stronger and less gimmicks.
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Sounds like a GQ with a TD42 to me.......where's duggie??
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I agree that once a past time becomes popular plus modern tech gets involved expense soars. We have 2 4wd's and 1 camper trailer in the family and most of the gear to go with it. Mind you our Landcruiser 80 was made in 1992 and the GQ SWB was made in 1988. Both are diesel and both can be serviced at home quite easily. Our camper is new and costs just over 20 grand. It has taken me just shy of 20 odd years to have gathered all this stuff together so I whole heartedly agree it is not cheap. Having said this it is all quite cheap to run now we have it all except fuel and insurance. There will always be something that bends you over and makes you cry. :-[
At least when its all over I can go camping and rub some cream on it. ;D
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Sounds like a GQ with a TD42 to me.......where's duggie??
The GQ is a good starting point as it has many good qualities but it's still not that cheap to repair. I'm thinking even more basic. Take the VW Beetle as an example of a mass produced people mover. Arguably the most successful motor car ever made. A 4WD in the same theme but even better design would be great.
I think the most likely country to produce such a machine would be India. They are coming along in leaps and bounds in manufacturing.
Most of the big gun car makers are heading in the higher tech direction which is great if your got really deep pockets and can trade out before the warranty expires.
Steve
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 4
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The answer is probably yes.......................however, when did you last see a trailer behind a hearse?
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It's like any life style choice, we all decide how much we spend.
You can spend 60k on a camper or 3k. You are still sleeping under canvas.
Or you can drop 90k plus, plus another 15k at the local ARB, or drop 2k on a 15 year old Pajero to achieve the same result.
It is only as expensive if you want it to be. We just have more options now than what the Leyland Brothers did.
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That is why I upgraded from a 1989 Hilux to a 1993 80 Series. Couldn't afford the 100 Series we really wanted to get.
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Yes, it is an expensive way to go, but what is the alternative? We just spent 6 months travelling in WA and spent heaps, but have absolutely no regrets. We had a ball every single day. Next year we will be doing a Europe trip and that will also be expensive. The difference. When we get home we will have heaps of memories and photos. When we got home from WA we had all that, plus we still had our camper and 4wd, gave them a good clean and they are ready for the next adventure! ;D Just don't worry about the costs too much, when one day they place you in the old coffin there will not be much room for your money! Kevin
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Not a hobby to me but more a lifestyle. And lets face it life can be as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be.
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Yes, it is an expensive way to go, but what is the alternative? We just spent 6 months travelling in WA and spent heaps, but have absolutely no regrets. We had a ball every single day. Next year we will be doing a Europe trip and that will also be expensive. The difference. When we get home we will have heaps of memories and photos. When we got home from WA we had all that, plus we still had our camper and 4wd, gave them a good clean and they are ready for the next adventure! ;D Just don't worry about the costs too much, when one day they place you in the old coffin there will not be much room for your money! Kevin
Very well said. And very true.
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No doubt it adds up, but as has been posted you can make it as cheap or exe as you like. For me any hobby that I can enjoy with my sons is a good one, and you have to spend your money on something right?
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In real terms it's actually never been cheaper... The price of cars relative to the average income has reduced over the years. Here is a recent article that shows the relationship between the two.
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2013/can-cars-get-any-cheaper-39884?R=39884&Cr=30&surl=aHR0cDovL2VkaXRvcmlhbHN5c3RlbS5jYXJzYWxlcy5jb20uYXUvRGVza3RvcERlZmF1bHQuYXNweD9Ocz1wX0RhdGVBdmFpbGFibGVfRGF0ZVRpbWUlN0MxJk49Mjk4MSs0Mjk0OTY3MjgxKzQyOTQ5NjcyNzkmVGFiSUQ9MjIwODc4NiZRcGI9MSZzaWQ9MTQyNTA5QjBCRTM0Jk5vPTMwJk5uZT0xNQ..
I don't think its a dying breed, I think it's an expanding market. As Baby Boomers get more cash and more time they are following the dream of seeing Australia. I guess you don't make $130,000 4WD and a $80,000 Camper if there's not a market for them.
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Only as expensive as you make it. You don't need any of the expensive stuff. A stock vehicle will pretty much everything you need it to do.
Heck a friend of my wife's just bought a HR wagon, chucked her two under two daughters in it with some 2nd hand camping gear and drove from Ballarat to Uluru and back. Not expensive at all.
I bought a 4.2 Gu about 10 years ago for $18k, have put $1k worth of mods on and that's it. Add the price of a small tradies trailer and camping gear we are just over $20k all up for a family of 4 camping setup.
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Not just 4wding, everything...
just a starter, how much is rego and insurance these days for what you get back...
how much are good quality tyres in a 285?? 350-500ea... Yes I did say quality - not Linglongfuk's.
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At the end of the day I really don't care...............It's what we do , and I'm willing to pay for the privilege to it my way :cup: . I can't take it with me ;D
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At the end of the day I really don't care...............It's what we do , and I'm willing to pay for the privilege to it my way :cup: . I can't take it with me ;D
X 1 million
Mark
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The secret is to figure out a way to pretty much travel the outback as a job somehow... :cheers:
Carlisle
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4wd'ing is not getting expensive - it's my boss at work keeping the share holders happy by keeping me living in poverty
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......I can't take it with me ;D
....but if you had more power, bigger tyres, bigger lift, lockers galore......and a couple of DSLR's to record it all..... ;D ;D ;D
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It gets even harder when you have an aussie muscle car hobby as well!! Now they cost some coin to maintain and get parts
Swannie
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Not just 4wding, everything...
x2 such is life in a capitalist society...
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The secret is to figure out a way to pretty much travel the outback as a job somehow... :cheers:
Carlisle
Any tips? ;) ;D
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Yep it all seems to be going up except wages.
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We have two 4wds, and I have to admit, both have been put to very good use.
The 4wding bug gets us out on the tracks as often as possible(usually once or twice a month), and we do several camping trips every year, including one major trip of around 6 weeks(big for us when we've got high school aged kids).
We have a standing appointment with our mechanic the day we get back from any trip, and since both of our 4wds are Land Rovers, we've always known how expensive this hobby can be :'( :'( :'(
The seemingly continual, exorbitant expense of repairing the 4wds is a small price to pay in the long run though when, as many of you have already said, it gets you out exploring this wonderful Country with family and friends, creating and sharing memories.
I live for any chance to get out in the bush, and have no qualms at all about spending my husband's money on the trucks, because it's a hobby we can all do together as a family.
Besides, when we're together in the 4wd(with the windows up because you can't hear each other shout in the Defender with them down), it gives me a chance to talk to my DH... and he has to listen >:D
Karen
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I have been asking this exact same question myself of late due to the cost of not only our camping gear, but the cost of going away.
$36 000 What I paid for my 4WD
$14 000 What I paid for my camper
$ 2 400 Fridges
$ 2 000 Dual batteries/ solar/ cable/plugs etc
$ 5 000 4WD accessories
$ 1 000 Random camping gear
We recently priced camping a week at Moreton Island and between the barge, beach & camping permits and enough fuel for the week, that came in at about $850. Just for the privilege to spend a week on the sand. A nice unit down the Gold Coast 20m from the beach is only $900 for the week!!
Then when we return home I spend at least a whole day cleaning the camper and car.
Yes I do love it when we are away, but sometimes its feels like it’s losing some of its appeal.
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x2 such is life in a capitalist society...
agree.. it just snowballs... people want more pay, things need to get more expensive to keep shareholders happy
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I decided quite a while ago now that instead of 'upgrading' (down grading in my mind) to a newer 4wd I would keep the 4wd I have and just keep spending any money on it that it needs as things wear out.
It is not a daily driver, it is a tool for getting out and enjoying life. It is old but tough. It has no electronics, it is simple like its owner, yet comfortable enough to do big trips. It now has over 300000 kays on it and in that time it has had a swivel bearing kit, a new clutch, gearbox 5th gear upgraded, it blew an intercooler hose off (self inflicted), last week I shouted it a new cranking battery and besides the usual servicing it hasn't really cost me a lot of unexpected money. Id like to see a modern 4wd with the same kays and life this Patrol has had be able to get to this stage in its life with less than $1500 spent on mechanical repairs ;D (I have spent far more money on mods etc than I have on repairs.
I have also decided that I won't do big mud running days any more because we all know that will add to the cost of repairs ;)
So for us while I admit as the kays and age goes on our Patrol it is going to require more mechanical repairs, I am happy to keep that up to it so we can continue to out there and enjoy life. And also it is not so much what is it costing, it is more about lifestyle and giving the kids memories, socialising with great people and keeping my liver honest. You can't put a price on that :)
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I have been asking this exact same question myself of late due to the cost of not only our camping gear, but the cost of going away.
$36 000 What I paid for my 4WD
$14 000 What I paid for my camper
$ 2 400 Fridges
$ 2 000 Dual batteries/ solar/ cable/plugs etc
$ 5 000 4WD accessories
$ 1 000 Random camping gear
We recently priced camping a week at Moreton Island and between the barge, beach & camping permits and enough fuel for the week, that came in at about $850. Just for the privilege to spend a week on the sand. A nice unit down the Gold Coast 20m from the beach is only $900 for the week!!
Then when we return home I spend at least a whole day cleaning the camper and car.
Yes I do love it when we are away, but sometimes its feels like it’s losing some of its appeal.
mate of mine is saying the samething.. flog the 2yr old Prado n 2yr old trailer, buy a nice statesman, leather, V8 etc and caravan park/motel it instead.. and get out of debt while at it.
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Not just 4wding, everything...
just a starter, how much is rego and insurance these days for what you get back...
how much are good quality tyres in a 285?? 350-500ea... Yes I did say quality - not Linglongfuk's.
I think compared to other states i have lived in VIC rego is one of the cheapest and has some of the best roads
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I think compared to other states i have lived in VIC rego is one of the cheapest and has some of the best roads
... bloke in my team paid his suby forrester rego yesterday $712
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We recently priced camping a week at Moreton Island and between the barge, beach & camping permits and enough fuel for the week, that came in at about $850. Just for the privilege to spend a week on the sand. A nice unit down the Gold Coast 20m from the beach is only $900 for the week!!
Then when we return home I spend at least a whole day cleaning the camper and car.
Yes I do love it when we are away, but sometimes its feels like it’s losing some of its appeal.
True but if all you are doing is want to stay by the seaside then why would you trek all the way to Moreton?
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The last time that I worked in the auto industry was as a service adviser in a Toyota dealership in 1985. Things were just as expensive back then as they are today. A major service on a Cruiser cost around $430 and that was doing it properly over a 4 to 41/2 half hour period. The cost usually increased as the car got older and we started finding things like rusted wheel bearings. A gearbox overhaul on a well worn Cruiser could easily exceed $2000. I remember a $2000 bill for a loose harmonic balancer on a 60 series diesel that had damaged the crankshaft.
Mechanics in those days were earning a little over $300 a week as were countless other people in other jobs. That did not go far with bills like that.
We had plenty of EFI cars like Crowns, Supras etc but the electronics were not a problem. I can't remember ever having to fix any of it. When I bought my 03 5LE engine Hilux seven years ago, I rang the dealer that I used to work for and spoke to the workshop supervisor about possible problems with any of the electronics. He was an apprentice working under me all those years ago and is still there. He said the only problems they have are with the electronic accelerator pedals and only after they have been submerged in water so it looks like all the modern electronics that many people seemed to be terrified of are still as reliable as can be.
We talk about the cost of modifying cars on top of buying them. There are tracks a couple of ks from my home that I would have no hope of driving over in my car. At the same time though, my wife and I have just returned from an Outback trip that included Dalhousie Springs, Mt Dare, the old Ghan railway line, the Sandy Blight Junction road and the Gunbarrel Highway Our stock standard Hilux complete with its 7 year old 205 x16 LT tyres completed the trip with easy without a worry in the world. That is not the only parts of the Outback that it has been into. It has also done its share of driving in the VHC and many other areas.
The point is don't spend money on modifications unless you absolutely need them. If you want to drive over an impossible track then you will need them but they are not necesary to see the country. Companies like Toyota and Nissan have been selling 4wds to the people of the Outback since the 1960s. If the cars were not suitable in standard form, they would have been flooded with complaints and/or warranty claims and would have fixed any problems decades ago.
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I modify my 4wd because I want to, not because I have too. I don't HAVE to have 40psi boost and 600hp but I WANT it lol ;D
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... bloke in my team paid his suby forrester rego yesterday $712
Yep and if your in NSW add a pink slip and compulsory 3rd party to that
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I sold my CT and can't find one I want and am now in the mind as to whether I even want one.
Happy to hire one if and when I need it. Let someone else own it and store it and mod it.
A good quality camper will cost you less than hiring, and give you the option to go whenever, wherever and for as long as you like. I hired last Xmas and again at Easter, and I doubt it will cost me as much as that to own my camper for 5 years. Yes, one needs to have the money to put into it, or the ability to service a loan but as long as the camper you choose holds its value it is a low cost hobby.
4wding, how often do I mis-type it $wding. I have found it very expensive to be silly, play in the mud, rocks etc, but I feel like my Cruiser is such an important component of my life I don't regret what it costs. I could spend less for sure, but I really feel like I would have less, do less, be less myself. My wife certainly doesn't share this view, every conversation about (lack of) money starts with "do you know how much money you spend on fuel..." but it's not like I wouldn't spend money of fuel with another vehicle, though it would likely be less.
Like campers, choose wisely, buy well and look after it and hopefully it won't end badly.
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The secret is to figure out a way to pretty much travel the outback as a job somehow... :cheers:
Carlisle
Are you looking for staff? ;D
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I just keep it simple and basic so that automatically keeps the cost down.
PS you can't drive a statesman to the places we like to go.
And yeah beachman that moreton is bloody expensive, try straddie
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I drive an old car (gq patrol), fix, service and do all my own mods (turbo intercooled 28psi, twin locked on 35s) because I enjoy it. I also take comfort in knowing that there is minimal technology to fail and if I break down I know enough about the car to overcome most problems. You don't need the latest and greatest equipment to get out and enjoy yourself. Get out there with what you can comfortably afford which makes it more enjoyable as you're not worrying about how much this is costing. Buy a tool kit and service manual and learn how to do some of your own servicing and repairs and see how much money you can save by not having to pay others. :cheers:
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The secret is to figure out a way to pretty much travel the outback as a job somehow... :cheers:
Carlisle
You haven't got a job for me have you Carlisle?
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Lots of different views here on the subject and I can see both sides of the fence.
I have had some great trips up the Cape over the last 30 years. Most of those trips were in old Cruzas.
40s, 45s, 47s 55s, a 2 stroke Zook to name a few. Very basic foodstuff, basic swag and a tarp. The old tracks ( if you could call them that), that were horrendously hard on the vehicles. Fuel consumption and power were pretty bad. The old petrol and diesel motors had a fair amount of torque but absolutely no power. I don't remember the vehicles being uncomfortable or hard to drive but by today's standards they were. No aircon, no power steering and oil chewers. The travelling was slow, very slow. Breakdowns happened, but we could fix them. i know i couldnt operate on most modern cars like I could in the old days. The vehicles would get hung up and bogged often. We couldn't afford a winch electric PTO or manual winch but we were patient and wise with our driving. We only had a snatch strap and shovel. Made a windlass once out of branches and rope on a recovery once.
Our ice supply would last about five days for a two week trip. Cold beer was a luxury but replaced by goonies of warm port. We would go fishing, shooting and crabbing all day with a litre of water and a couple of oranges in your pocket. I don't remember being hungry, we did eate a lot of fish, crabs, Crays and oysters. I used to chuckle at the old four ex add years ago when the bushies joked about being sick of seafood and will kill for a steak.
We used kerosine lanterns for lighting and played cards most nights for entertainment. Cooking was all done over wood fires, bread was made from damper.
Bathing was done at twilight in the ocean with a close watch out for crocs but they were few and far between those days.
Once every 4 days or so we would drive about an hour back to a cold freshwater creek to (cool down some Berra in the river) restock on fresh water and have a good bath. We used old beer kegs in those days to store our fresh water.
I remember a graduating to tents (expensive back then) I also remember how the old petrol bush freezer gave us more options for food and drinks. ( we were spoilt). I also remember camping with the tucker box freezer and generator. Wow, that was a big change, now we could take bread and have a few cold beers. I still have the old battle scarred tucker box, it still works but looks very secondhand.
About 15 years ago I decided it was time to catch up with technology, we bought a 1988 Diesel Troopy. 2 x 90 litre fuel tanks. The power was awesome, 75 kwatts, now we could actually get to 100kmh on the bitumen and it had aircon. It was a major step up for technology for us.
I have always been sceptical of modern electronics in 4wds. For that reason, when we got rid of. The old Troopy, I narrowed my search down to either a 4.2 Pootrol or 80s, 105s Cruza. I only wanted a live axle front, and basic diesel (1hz) engine. I didnt want a 100s Cruza, No offence to owners of IFS vehicles but I like to stick with what I know.
We bought a 105 stock as a rock. Once again a major step forward in technology for us but really, buying a 2003 Cruza in 2009 was hardly keeping up with the Joneses.
Driving on coils, having a winch, and putting on other fruit made it more comfortable for us. Yes, I know power in the 1HZ is low but going from a 2H Cruza with the aerodynamics of a Besser brick to the 105 1HZ wagon was a big step in additional power.
About 5 years ago we bought a 250w solar panel, 95 litre 12 v fidge and making a home made OZ pig made more advancements once again. Now we pack luxuries like shredded cheese for pizzas, fancy herbs, dips and all sorts. Cryovaccing meat helped a lot too.
Then comes the CT with quick setup, 4 burner stove, 100 litre water tank with a sink/kitchen area. Chemical toilet. You know what I am saying.
We love our 4wding to great camping spots but now, I am a little older and wiser and don't have to prove how competent a 4wder I am by going on extreme tracks anymore. Maybe I am just getting old but I try to look after what I own these days. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of battle scars on the Cruza but I am a lot more careful and wiser with my driving these days.
I know for Southerners, traveling through Cape York is an exciting adventure, but to be honest, the extreme pioneering that we did many years ago was very different. To be honest, the OTT and others are like a 4 lane highway in comparison to what they were 30 years ago. Once again, no offence to fellow Swaggers.
I am no expert, but IMO, and once again no offence to Swaggers, with some decent and real 4WD experience, decent tyres and a couple inches of lift, any 4WD will do the OTT and subsidiary tracks without any difficulty whatsoever. Yeah having a winch is helpful but not mandatory. I know I prefer Cruzas and Patrols but that is because those were the vehicles that could capably accomplish these tracks many years ago. The poor old Landrovers were capable back then but if you needed to get back to Cooktown to get parts you would only get parts for the Patrols or Cruzas as Cooktown was a very small town with limited options.
I have very fond memories of those trips, I cannot compare them to trips with the modern technology. Don't get me wrong, I love travelling with cold beer and all the luxurious food we take now but we wouldn't see anyone for the entire 2 weeks, now everyone travels up there because the tracks are so good. It is getting really hard to camp up the Cape without neighbours.
I often cast an envious glance at the new Patrols, 200s and 76s Cruzas with all of the power and the fruit. I still wouldn't know what to do if there was a problem with the engine on one of these things but as I Sid before, we don't drive to the extreme areas that we used to. I think for some people, having a 4WD is a statues symbol. We have all seen them decked out with every available bolt on ARB piece of fruit available. Thousands of dollars spent on lifts, bullbars, winches, turbos, lockas, everything. Have a Close look at some of these vehicles and their paintwork is immaculate, the winch cable is perfectly spooled on as it has never been used. Even the bar work is polished. I have never really understood why some people have this setup. Once again, no offence.
Anyway, short story long, I loved the good old days but now at my age, I am somewhat happy with the way technology has changed things.
I am sure plenty will agree and disagree but that is my 2 cents worth (actually probably about$2.00 worth by the time I post this)
Muz.
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A good quality camper will cost you less than hiring, and give you the option to go whenever, wherever and for as long as you like. I hired last Xmas and again at Easter, and I doubt it will cost me as much as that to own my camper for 5 years. Yes, one needs to have the money to put into it, or the ability to service a loan but as long as the camper you choose holds its value it is a low cost hobby.
It's not the cost / investment factor, and I agree they are nothing like owning a boat, especially something like Jeepers, its the storing it in the garage, the extra weight behind the tug all of that stuff that has put me off a bit.....but not out lol 8) I will buy another I just don't know when or what yet. Do you reckon they still hold there value? I think the import market is going to only further erode secondhand values in the long run as the quality gap minimises.
JUst a question, and please don't think it smart arse, how long did you go between campers? I am going on 12 months or so now.
Cheers Nomad.
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We were without a camper for nearly 18 months and hated it. Missed out, lost contact with great friends and generally didn't enjoy ourselves as we had when we had a camper. That was why we hired, we knew how much we enjoyed using a camper.
Still did trips and went camping but after the ease of a camper, swags and tents weren't cutting it for is.
Julian
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Lots of different views here on the subject and I can see both sides of the fence.
I have had some great trips up the Cape over the last 30 years. Most of those trips were in old Cruzas.
40s, 45s, 47s 55s, a 2 stroke Zook to name a few. Very basic foodstuff, basic swag and a tarp. The old tracks ( if you could call them that), that were horrendously hard on the vehicles. Fuel consumption and power were pretty bad. The old petrol and diesel motors had a fair amount of torque but absolutely no power. I don't remember the vehicles being uncomfortable or hard to drive but by today's standards they were. No aircon, no power steering and oil chewers. The travelling was slow, very slow. Breakdowns happened, but we could fix them. i know i couldnt operate on most modern cars like I could in the old days. The vehicles would get hung up and bogged often. We couldn't afford a winch electric PTO or manual winch but we were patient and wise with our driving. We only had a snatch strap and shovel. Made a windlass once out of branches and rope on a recovery once.
Our ice supply would last about five days for a two week trip. Cold beer was a luxury but replaced by goonies of warm port. We would go fishing, shooting and crabbing all day with a litre of water and a couple of oranges in your pocket. I don't remember being hungry, we did eate a lot of fish, crabs, Crays and oysters. I used to chuckle at the old four ex add years ago when the bushies joked about being sick of seafood and will kill for a steak.
We used kerosine lanterns for lighting and played cards most nights for entertainment. Cooking was all done over wood fires, bread was made from damper.
Bathing was done at twilight in the ocean with a close watch out for crocs but they were few and far between those days.
Once every 4 days or so we would drive about an hour back to a cold freshwater creek to (cool down some Berra in the river) restock on fresh water and have a good bath. We used old beer kegs in those days to store our fresh water.
I remember a graduating to tents (expensive back then) I also remember how the old petrol bush freezer gave us more options for food and drinks. ( we were spoilt). I also remember camping with the tucker box freezer and generator. Wow, that was a big change, now we could take bread and have a few cold beers. I still have the old battle scarred tucker box, it still works but looks very secondhand.
About 15 years ago I decided it was time to catch up with technology, we bought a 1988 Diesel Troopy. 2 x 90 litre fuel tanks. The power was awesome, 75 kwatts, now we could actually get to 100kmh on the bitumen and it had aircon. It was a major step up for technology for us.
I have always been sceptical of modern electronics in 4wds. For that reason, when we got rid of. The old Troopy, I narrowed my search down to either a 4.2 Pootrol or 80s, 105s Cruza. I only wanted a live axle front, and basic diesel (1hz) engine. I didnt want a 100s Cruza, No offence to owners of IFS vehicles but I like to stick with what I know.
We bought a 105 stock as a rock. Once again a major step forward in technology for us but really, buying a 2003 Cruza in 2009 was hardly keeping up with the Joneses.
Driving on coils, having a winch, and putting on other fruit made it more comfortable for us. Yes, I know power in the 1HZ is low but going from a 2H Cruza with the aerodynamics of a Besser brick to the 105 1HZ wagon was a big step in additional power.
About 5 years ago we bought a 250w solar panel, 95 litre 12 v fidge and making a home made OZ pig made more advancements once again. Now we pack luxuries like shredded cheese for pizzas, fancy herbs, dips and all sorts. Cryovaccing meat helped a lot too.
Then comes the CT with quick setup, 4 burner stove, 100 litre water tank with a sink/kitchen area. Chemical toilet. You know what I am saying.
We love our 4wding to great camping spots but now, I am a little older and wiser and don't have to prove how competent a 4wder I am by going on extreme tracks anymore. Maybe I am just getting old but I try to look after what I own these days. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of battle scars on the Cruza but I am a lot more careful and wiser with my driving these days.
I know for Southerners, traveling through Cape York is an exciting adventure, but to be honest, the extreme pioneering that we did many years ago was very different. To be honest, the OTT and others are like a 4 lane highway in comparison to what they were 30 years ago. Once again, no offence to fellow Swaggers.
I am no expert, but IMO, and once again no offence to Swaggers, with some decent and real 4WD experience, decent tyres and a couple inches of lift, any 4WD will do the OTT and subsidiary tracks without any difficulty whatsoever. Yeah having a winch is helpful but not mandatory. I know I prefer Cruzas and Patrols but that is because those were the vehicles that could capably accomplish these tracks many years ago. The poor old Landrovers were capable back then but if you needed to get back to Cooktown to get parts you would only get parts for the Patrols or Cruzas as Cooktown was a very small town with limited options.
I have very fond memories of those trips, I cannot compare them to trips with the modern technology. Don't get me wrong, I love travelling with cold beer and all the luxurious food we take now but we wouldn't see anyone for the entire 2 weeks, now everyone travels up there because the tracks are so good. It is getting really hard to camp up the Cape without neighbours.
I often cast an envious glance at the new Patrols, 200s and 76s Cruzas with all of the power and the fruit. I still wouldn't know what to do if there was a problem with the engine on one of these things but as I Sid before, we don't drive to the extreme areas that we used to. I think for some people, having a 4WD is a statues symbol. We have all seen them decked out with every available bolt on ARB piece of fruit available. Thousands of dollars spent on lifts, bullbars, winches, turbos, lockas, everything. Have a Close look at some of these vehicles and their paintwork is immaculate, the winch cable is perfectly spooled on as it has never been used. Even the bar work is polished. I have never really understood why some people have this setup. Once again, no offence.
Anyway, short story long, I loved the good old days but now at my age, I am somewhat happy with the way technology has changed things.
I am sure plenty will agree and disagree but that is my 2 cents worth (actually probably about$2.00 worth by the time I post this)
Muz.
Well put Muzza. :cup:
Mark
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Great response mate well said.
BD
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We were without a camper for nearly 18 months and hated it. Missed out, lost contact with great friends and generally didn't enjoy ourselves as we had when we had a camper. That was why we hired, we knew how much we enjoyed using a camper.
Still did trips and went camping but after the ease of a camper, swags and tents weren't cutting it for is.
Julian
My chinese POS was never easy lol. But because none of our friends had campers we always ended up taking all the crap for them to use for the weekend or week or whatever. If I camp with friends now its not like I am expected to take all the crap.
I guess I am loving basic camping at the moment, which is fine but will go full circle again at some point.
:cheers:
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One thought that has crossed my mind - household appliances are getting cheaper. Power tools, mowers, Technology is getting cheaper - gennies, solar, computers, cameras etc
Why not cars? mass production, global model platforms, parts sharing between models and even manufacturers, robotic or cheap labour for parts. Thinner sheet metal, more plastics, Computer simulations will get the design for dynamics & handling probably 95% of the way there before real world testing is required.
Why are the 200 Series Kluger and new Datsun Fatroll priced to infinity and beyond? (ok, I've watched too much toy story...)
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Depends if your keeping up with the jones or obeying reality really.
We have a cheaper camper trailer and get the same result parked up next to the big $$$models.
Our 2nd hand 105 series was also cheap being petrol and I can fix petrol stuff, limited electronics and easy to work on.
I like to think I can fix most things that might strand us on the side of the road.......but stuff is always likely to break and it's just the way it is.
I'd have to say though since owning our first "Australia's toughest 4wd" (allegedly) it's been a complete piss weak pussy whinging bitch compared to our old jackaroo.......
Our $200 solar panels from eBay get used every day and are still pumping out the power......I didn't pay 4 x more for the same result but getting the same result.
Anyway....each to their own the memories and the adventure is why we are in it, not for the slickest camper or car
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One thought that has crossed my mind - household appliances are getting cheaper. Power tools, mowers, Technology is getting cheaper - gennies, solar, computers, cameras etc
Why not cars? mass production, global model platforms, parts sharing between models and even manufacturers, robotic or cheap labour for parts. Thinner sheet metal, more plastics, Computer simulations will get the design for dynamics & handling probably 95% of the way there before real world testing is required.
Why are the 200 Series Kluger and new Datsun Fatroll priced to infinity and beyond? (ok, I've watched too much toy story...)
I'll agree with that. $100k for a car? not in this lifetime.
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One thought that has crossed my mind - household appliances are getting cheaper. Power tools, mowers, Technology is getting cheaper - gennies, solar, computers, cameras etc
Why not cars? mass production, global model platforms, parts sharing between models and even manufacturers, robotic or cheap labour for parts. Thinner sheet metal, more plastics, Computer simulations will get the design for dynamics & handling probably 95% of the way there before real world testing is required.
Why are the 200 Series Kluger and new Datsun Fatroll priced to infinity and beyond? (ok, I've watched too much toy story...)
There is a lot more "fruit" in new cars. Cars are cheaper (in one sense). Remember when heaters, radios, air con, ABS, electric mirrors, power steering, disc brakes were options or only in high end cars.
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I live for any chance to get out in the bush, and have no qualms at all about spending my husband's money on the trucks,
I think I jinxed myself. We blew the rear diff on the weekend :'(
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My base speck '94 diesel Paj cost $47000 (according to Redbook) when new. The top'o'line Exceed was about $70000 and a bit.
Nearly 20 years later a GLX Paj is RRP $50990, Exceed - $73990.
My sister bought he first new car, a "$19990 Nissan Pulsar in the late 1990s.
Guess how much a Nissan Pulsar is today? $18990.
I think all the "increased costs" we have to put up with is the increased service costs (labor costs, more "unrepairable/unserviceable" units), a larger quantity of "toys" (bigger fridges, solar panels, everybody has to have an ARB catalogue grafted to their vehicle) etc
Peter
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I totally agree, it's a kind of lifestyle, it's a way we should enjoy. But for me i'm interested in 4WD outback driving trip, so it can be both lifestyle or hobby to me.
:cheers:
sums it right up
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It gets even harder when you have an aussie muscle car hobby as well!!
Swannie
I thought you had a Torana :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I thought you had a Torana :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Ouch.
(But piss funny ;D )
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My 12 year old tug and 16 year old Aussie soft floor camper cost approx $19,000 all up.
Have probably spent another $5,000 on fridge, dual battery system, solar panels, rear fit out, etc.
$24,000 for a set up like mine is relatively cheap, but still need to have the discretionary income to afford it.
Certainly possible to get out there for far less than that if you cant afford it, and just add the extras slowly.
Apart from mud / sand / high country, there aren't too many places a regular car cant take a light camper trailer. People were doing it for years before the advent of modern 4x4 trucks, and roads were a lot worse then.
"Take it slowly" is possibly the best 'accessory' available, and it is FREE.
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I thought you had a Torana :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Very funny :).... Not
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Ouch.
(But piss funny ;D )
And you should know better
Swannie
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Yes! Summer is coming, it's time to start an amazing 4WD outback trip and it's time to take a adventure of 4WD driving competition, this time i must win my those mates.Lol.
:cup: :cup: ;D
i don't understand your comment here? Please explain?
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Yes! Summer is coming, it's time to start an amazing 4WD outback trip and it's time to take a adventure of 4WD driving competition, this time i must win my those mates.Lol.
:cup: :cup: ;D
are you sure Summer is coming?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/ebu4y2uj.jpg)
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WTF
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4wd repairs are no more expensive really than a normal vehicle and unless they are treated harshly (dont treat them like a submarine for example) they will be just as reliable as any other vehicle.
I find it amazing how much people spend on CT's but then again people would have choked on what I spent on rally cars. Back in the mid 90's we raced a rear wheel drive Mitsubishi Lancer and were running 1st in class and close to some of the 4wd turbo cars. The only way we did this was to put new front tyres on after every second stage and put the old fronts on the back. We would use up $400 each time and there was normally 8 stages so there goes $1600 just in tyres.
Later on, we were rallying just for fun and would get three rallies out of a set and just had fun.
The 'electronics' issue is really a furphy. They are no more likely to stuff up than an older vehicles coil, electronic ignition, points or distributor drive. Or clutch, or axle etc.
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WTF
yeah, I'm still confused too
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I'm going down down down down...........
;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.capetownmagazine.com/weather-cape-town/cape-town-four-seasons-in-one-day/160_22_17571 (http://www.capetownmagazine.com/weather-cape-town/cape-town-four-seasons-in-one-day/160_22_17571)
Who cares about the weather. Its camping. Muntu light the braai............
Disclaimer ( Now before anyone goes all green/ P.C. on my little donkey......... I'm being tongue in cheek and am Rhodesian / Zimbabwean so I can get away with it :angel: :police: :police: :police:)
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Very funny :) .... Not
Sorry, Swannie could not resist.
I'm just jealous.
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For some people it is becoming too expensive... lots of people don't have the extra cash at the end of th week they did pre kids, when both were working...
... cant go need new tyres, cant go car needs service, cant go shocks are rooted.
I know numerous people in this boat... it sucks.
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For some people it is becoming too expensive... lots of people don't have the extra cash at the end of th week they did pre kids, when both were working...
... cant go need new tyres, cant go car needs service, cant go shocks are rooted.
I know numerous people in this boat... it sucks.
I know only too well....
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For some people it is becoming too expensive... lots of people don't have the extra cash at the end of th week they did pre kids, when both were working...
... cant go need new tyres, cant go car needs service, cant go shocks are rooted.
I know numerous people in this boat... it sucks.
agree, my best saying is 'I found cash again when I stopped paying school fees, text books, excursions, school charity days, etc and both our boys went to public school. We never seemed to stop handing out the cash......
Now they're somewhat grown up, we still have to feed them(and all their friends), but they're funding their lifestyle, not me.
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For some people it is becoming too expensive... lots of people don't have the extra cash at the end of th week they did pre kids, when both were working...
... cant go need new tyres, cant go car needs service, cant go shocks are rooted.
I know numerous people in this boat... it sucks.
Not forgetting the price of bloody fuel >:( even Autogas is through the roof at nearly 90c WTF??
BD
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Anyone notice the price of fuel went up 15/20c litre when the Gov banned the supermarket fuel vouchers 10c, 20c, 30c, and I even managed to get some 40c off a litre. Gov stopped them because of competition laws, and yep, it went up!
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Was it ever cheap??
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When you visit places like this, the expense is all worth it.
Mark
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Not forgetting the price of bloody fuel >:( even Autogas is through the roof at nearly 90c WTF??
BD
yep, its a couple of hundred bux just to go away for a weekend in fuel. leave home full, get home with full tank, etc...
When you visit places like this, the expense is all worth it.
Mark
yea, but how many tanks of fuel is that going to be at around $200 a tank
Not everyone makes 100k and has 70k of disposable.
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And what are we comparing too ??
We have so much to see and do here in oz
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And what are we comparing too ??
We have so much to see and do here in oz
Its cheaper to go to NZ, or anyone of 500 islands than it is to go to Tasmania with my car and trailer.
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Its cheaper to go to NZ, or anyone of 500 islands than it is to go to Tasmania with my car and trailer.
It's cheaper for me to go to NZ than it is to take the camper to Moreton Island, and I can see that from home!
Shane.
(OK, maybe not quite, but you would be flat out buying a carton of beer with the change)
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For some people it is becoming too expensive... lots of people don't have the extra cash at the end of th week they did pre kids, when both were working...
... cant go need new tyres, cant go car needs service, cant go shocks are rooted.
I know numerous people in this boat... it sucks.
Can certainly relate to that. Had a rough look at our expenditure the other day - 1/3 income on mortgage, 1/3 on school fess, 1/3 for everything else including fuel to run kids to basketball, tennis, cricket, football, part time work...... Wasn't to bad when they were at primary school (and only a few $100/year for fees) and the 3 kids only played soccer at the same grounds regardless of age group. Secondary school though :'( $$$$$s. The wife does approximately 200km/week running to work, and about 300km/week playing Mum's taxi ???
Peter
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I was chatting with a friend about the cost of camping and how expensive some cara.....cara......carav...........Not camper trailer parks are so expensive now!
YES IT IS. No argument from me at all, but I do have some observations.
Normally I would take my kids and meet up with friends somewhere we can camp for free.
Round Shi7ney that would be Newnes, Glen Davis, Turon, Clarencetown, Oallen etc etc.
It still costs for the camper - $28K, car $70K, camping gear $5K, fridge etc $1K. So all up around $100k to go "free" camping.
Plus diesel, lollies, food, beer etc.
Now this may seem extravagant from one point of view, but take another point of view.
I had to buy a car anyway.........
I have to buy beer and food no matter what.
Camping gear (good quality stuff) lasts many years if you take care of it.
Therefore the only "out of the ordinary" investment is the glamper.
I accept this and am willing to pay for the comfort so my kids can enjoy the lifestyle. I think its a small price to pay for the enjoyment we get.
Now to look at fuel. If I drive to my usual weekend spots and home I kiss $100 of fuel goodbye. I've allready said that food and beer don't come into it because you have to buy that anyway.
So for $100 I get a whole weekend away with my kids around a fire, swimming in the rivers etc etc.
If I go to an "expensive" caravan park and pay $50 per night plus kids (usually around $8 each), I'm now up to $232 for a weekend.
Now this may seem expensive, but imagine for a minute, you decide to take the kids to the fine Scottish restaurant for breakfast on Saturday morning.
Bye Bye $35- $40 just on breakfast. Don't spend this on food when camping.
Then take a family of 4 to the movies for an afternoon..................
I doubt you'd get change from $150 by the time you add up parking, movie tickets, gold plated popcorn and a bag of diamonds lollies......
This gets you around 2 hours of entertainment and then around 10 mins before you get asked what we are doing next.........
I'd much rather pay the coins to a whole weekend of entertainment, fun and enjoyment with friends and family, then return home on Sunday evening, with everyone relaxed and tired from lots of fun.
So yes it costs. Yes it is getting expensive, but compare it to other recreation then decide if its too expensive.
Who's got a ski boat?????? fuel, engines, maintenance, rego, etc etc.
Any hobby or recreation is going to cost you.
I love mine and still think while it is getting expensive, its still great value for money.
Carry on Glamping all,
Brian
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Two points I'd make. Firstly as some note serious large 4WDs are relatively expensive to buy and not cheap on fuel, tyres and servicing but that's the figures you're looking at and I think it's false economy to believe you can keep the old ones running much cheaper. Yes the new stuff has to meet new safety and emission standards and we're definitely paying for that, but by the same token we get a lot more bang for our our buck with standard fitment nowadays. The added sophistication and technology means they're about a 10 yr proposition before the squeezers nowadays and they'll go for scrap with plenty of Kms left in the motors. In that regard you have to do your sums as to whether or not you can really afford that sort of depreciation and running costs and there are a number of running cost tables to do your homework.
Secondly, and closely related to the first consideration, should you be sacrificing some off road capability for commuting and solo driving? I certainly did with a low km SX4 the missus can drive plus a Jayco with change out of $30k ($15,500 for a 3 yr old Suzi with 35000 on the clock and a tidy 03 Dove for $12750) Now you can see the depreciation in writing off the Suzi in 7-8 yrs of running with only tyres, brake linings, batteries and servicing. What about a new/near new Vitara or Ssangyong Korando and a used or import camper as they'll tow around 2 tonne.
My take is too many are living in the past with big single purpose fuel guzzlers and old, outmoded thinking about reconditioning vehicles. If you can't afford new or near new and that 10yr depreciation to zilch, you're really kidding yourself IMO. Cut the suit to the cloth, or in my case I'm certainly not crying poverty, just priorities.
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Here's the rub-
http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx (http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx)
and I plugged in the following 4WD autos for their calculated weekly running costs-
Suzuki SX4- $150
Grand Vitara- $173
Saangyong Korando- $189
Toyota Landcruiser- $396
That's after tax income remember but it would be a maxm buying new with a percentage of finance (or alternatively the opportunity cost of funds if you're paying cash) NRMA membership, etc and buying a low km one can reduce that somewhat but the figures are telling compared with some shopping trolleys on the market.
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Here's the rub-
http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx (http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx)
and I plugged in the following 4WD autos for their calculated weekly running costs-
Suzuki SX4- $150
Grand Vitara- $173
Saangyong Korando- $189
Toyota Landcruiser- $396
That's after tax income remember but it would be a maxm buying new with a percentage of finance (or alternatively the opportunity cost of funds if you're paying cash) NRMA membership, etc and buying a low km one can reduce that somewhat but the figures are telling compared with some shopping trolleys on the market.
I liked the cents per km result, much more relative. Thnx for the link.
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Here's the rub-
http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx (http://www.mynrma.com.au/mynrma/operating-costs-calculator.aspx)
and I plugged in the following 4WD autos for their calculated weekly running costs-
Suzuki SX4- $150
Grand Vitara- $173
Saangyong Korando- $189
Toyota Landcruiser- $396
That's after tax income remember but it would be a maxm buying new with a percentage of finance (or alternatively the opportunity cost of funds if you're paying cash) NRMA membership, etc and buying a low km one can reduce that somewhat but the figures are telling compared with some shopping trolleys on the market.
yes, agree........ but your are kidding if you try and compare the functionality of the SX4 or the Vitara to the Landcruiser.
Yep, you can have another vehicle. I use the bosses Kia whenever she does not need it as it is cheaper and easier to run than the cruiser, but as soon as we are going away, there is no choice as the Kia has not got a hope in hell of pulling the Kimberly on the road, let alone as soon as it turns to dust.
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Exactly, like most people we have two cars - the Prado for getting away and a Mazda 3 for city use. Normally the Prado is only used for off road / towing duties, trips to bunnings / the tip and around the village. If we are going any further afield and are not camping we use the Mazda.
Best of both worlds as far as we are concerned.
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We too have 2 vehicles. Hilux 4wd, my work ute, and patrol wife daily and get away vehicle.
The expense doesn't worry me. When it does I will stop going away I guess.
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My GU is over 10 years old.
Better trade it in on a Suzi.......
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lol geez, my hilux is 24 this year, gu is 13 lol well past trade in also
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lol geez, my hilux is 24 this year, gu is 13 lol well past trade in also
You will probably get cash back trading them in for a new Suzuki, they are both pretty new for Toyota's....
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yes, agree........ but your are kidding if you try and compare the functionality of the SX4 or the Vitara to the Landcruiser.
Well it only has to carry the missus and I now so that's a major consideration and I remove the foldover single back seat for trips away now(the other double stays permanently in the shed), so it easily has the boot capacity of a bigun with kids on board. That said I kicked off a long time ago with a SWB Land Rover ute and my bet is the SX4 with a lift kit and serious offroad tyres would eat it for breakfast, apart from deep water crossings. The Suzi has bugger all overhangs and that would give LWB stuff a serious run for their money and you can't beat light weight in sand as I know from my Suby L Series days.
The Suzi impressed me up the Gawler Ranges when heading back to the highway I diverted from Pildappa Rock to another Inselberg shown on the mud map. Was doing OK on a farm service gravel road until it narrowed somewhat dramatically and I realised I'd missed a turnoff but the track turned and I knew it was heading for the Eyre Highway. Nowhere to turn and a long backing back when the solid clay/gravel gave way to a long sandy uphill dune and hold yer armrest missus because here goes. No time to stop for lock AWD but just hit the power on auto AWD and hope for the best. It slithered and bucked around in the chewed up sand with its standard Bridgestone Turanza road tyres and the 12-1300 odd kg of road Dove was scraping its water tank protector in the sand hump in the middle but it made the top and there ahead was the wider gravel road to meet the highway. Never in doubt mum :-*
Had a similar trial near Venus Bay when I decided to unhitch and head down the long beach toward the far point as I could see a couple of 4WDs and fisherman. Was going alright for a fair way until it got quite soft even for the wet sand and I decided enough with high pressure road tyres and aware of chancing the incoming tide turned uphill in the dry sand and almost got around but too much steer and she bogged down. Missus out like a shot and cursing me, so down with the tyres and out with the spade and you might like to make yourself useful collecting some brush dear. Drove straight out and back no probs even the uphill charge for the carpark and Jayco and out with the compressor. Hitched up and having a smoke when a local came up for a chat and said he had his fingers crossed when he saw me leave as he'd bogged his Hilux down to the axles there a while back and had to get a local tractor to get it out. As you can imagine the missus was giving me a real earful after that but you can have quite a lot of fun and challenge fishing with light line. Not too far off the beaten track travelling solo these days, just in case you get it wrong.
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"It had $60,000 worth of work done to it,"
http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/casanova-borrows-4wd-gets-bogged-watches-it-sink-under-the-arafura-sea/story-fnk0b1zt-1226788951634 (http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/casanova-borrows-4wd-gets-bogged-watches-it-sink-under-the-arafura-sea/story-fnk0b1zt-1226788951634)
To be perfectly honest I used to spend my pay packet on racing motorsickles, wine, women and song and waste the rest too ;D
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Prodigy makes a good point however you probably need to split it into two areas - 4wd to get you places or 4wd to us 'off road' as a sport.
If running costs are thought through then running a cruiser/patrol/prado/pajero/discovery/defender is probably not the smart choice. Santa Fe, Outlander, Outback, Vitara, SX4, etc make more sense (provided the towing capacity is correct). A sleeper from a few years ago was the Hyundai Terrican TD. Sure there are some places that you could not go but very very few.
If 'off roading' is the thing then others make more sense.
We are seriously looking at a VW Tranpsorter 4Motion crewvan to replace our Prado. The only place I really would not want to take it is the cape but there have been a few that have done it. For the rest of the stuff we do - national parks, forestry camping and occasional (very) beach work it would do all we need.
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Last year,s McGirr 2013 across the Gulf trip I was at the time out of work and my Old Girl ( 1991 GQ Nissan Patrol Wagon ) was without an engine, but I decided to do the First part of the trip with the Myswag group , catch up with friends and show my partner some of Queensland that she had never seen.
We left the Trackabout Camp Trailer at home and set of in my other 4x4, a 1973 G60 Nissan tray back with an esky full of ice and cold beer, 30 litre fridge for the food stuff, a tarp, tent , self inflating mattress's , camp stretchers, a couple of chairs, folding table, cooking stuff and a lap top ( I wanted to watch the Townsville V8 race).
I averaged 15 litres of fuel per 100 k,s , no aircon but had the windows down and the vents wide open , on the dirt roads I found that I was not slowing the group down , if anything the were slowing me down, yes on the black top the group were a little quicker, but I did not hold the group up.
Did I and my partner have a good time ? No we didn't, we had a bloody great time.
Back to the basics camping is every bit enjoyable as going away in a 100k plus 4x4 with a 50k plus camper in tow, it is not just the camping/four wheel driving that make a great trip, it is the company of friends and seeing new places that makes a great trip.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii547/dug59/nissanprep102.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/dug59/media/nissanprep102.jpg.html)
cheers duggie.
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I read an article the other day about a guy who purchased a 200 series TD, then went to a 100 series which he had to fix ($11,000 on various parts), and ended up going back to an 80 series in the end, saying it was the best of the bunch for performance, flexibility, and cost to repair. (that's all I remember from the article, I don't mind being corrected)
I'm at the stage where I am starting to throw the swag in the back of my little "work" car and take that places instead of the Luxy. It's all because of the price of fuel, tyres, maintenance, parts, and how I don't lose sleep if something does happen to it. I'm at the stage where the "bare basics" are fun, and so long as the car goes and is cheap, then it gets a recommendation.
Manufactures of parts that we also sell are saying that they don't offer "do it yourself" kits either because of legal reasons: someone fits it themselves wrong, and the manufacturer gets to be sacrificed when something goes pear shaped. So even aftermarket parts are getting to be more expensive. (Got to love lawyers.)
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(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii547/dug59/nissanprep102.jpg) (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/dug59/media/nissanprep102.jpg.html)
cheers duggie.
Wow I had one of those. We called it Jolly Green. As opposed to Jolly Orange the shorty a mate had. I think we used to get 1 MPG out of it. LOL
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Im hopefully going to try and get into 4 wheel driving on the cheap. well try to.
Unless someone can find a flaw in my plan (there is probably many).
My plan is to buy a small 4wd, probably something like a Daihatsu Feroza or Rocky (the ferozas are cheaper though).
My theory is, they are not a complicated vehicle, no fancy electronics, worst case scenario an engine wont cost me $10k to replace, and i can do alot of work on it myself.
Plus its small, so easy as a everyday car, and wont be silly on petrol.
Even though I have a wife and child she is not interested at all in going 4wding, so most of the time its going to be me travelling solo, or as a group trip with mates.
If all this goes to plan and I do enjoy myself off road, the current Forester comes off lease in about 3 years, so the though then is to change over vehicles, and get a new lease on something like a prado or similar.
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Both options are ok. The Rocky, diesel is awesome for offroad but the Feroza is probably better to live with day to day.
Have a look at Bills rebuild...I had the same one and it was indestructable but bloody slow like a tractor.
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Grew up with LJ50s myself, and they were magic offroad, but it ended there. They could go over anything, and get up anything, but you can't carry more than a sleeping bag and a small tent, and expect tractors to overtake you on the open road. Some of the smaller vehicles are simply magic off-road, and if you don't mind the comfort of a small 4wd (none), then that's a bonus! Not bashing them, but when you buy a beetle, don't expect a rolls royce.
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Im hopefully going to try and get into 4 wheel driving on the cheap. well try to.
Unless someone can find a flaw in my plan (there is probably many).
My plan is to buy a small 4wd, probably something like a Daihatsu Feroza or Rocky (the ferozas are cheaper though).
My theory is, they are not a complicated vehicle, no fancy electronics, worst case scenario an engine wont cost me $10k to replace, and i can do alot of work on it myself.
Plus its small, so easy as a everyday car, and wont be silly on petrol.
Even though I have a wife and child she is not interested at all in going 4wding, so most of the time its going to be me travelling solo, or as a group trip with mates.
If all this goes to plan and I do enjoy myself off road, the current Forester comes off lease in about 3 years, so the though then is to change over vehicles, and get a new lease on something like a prado or similar.
Coil sprung Suzuki Sierra? You can get them in a LWB version too.
If you are a masochist you could get a lada niva . Best off roader around just as reliable as a a lada is.LOL
Ferosa from memory is IFS. Rockies came with Leaf spring front though I thought at some stage there was a wide body one that may have had coils. Memory fading with age.
Daihatsu very reliable.
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. That said I kicked off a long time ago with a SWB Land Rover ute and my bet is the SX4 with a lift kit and serious offroad tyres would eat it for breakfast, apart from deep water crossings. The Suzi has bugger all overhangs and that would give LWB stuff a serious run for their money and you can't beat light weight in sand as I know from my Suby L Series days. .
After reading your post the curiosity got the better of me and had to Google what a SX4 is. Looks very nice, but for us there is no way we can get our family of 4 in along with our supplies to be self-sufficient and tow our camper trailer to places like Fraser Island for a week.
But each to their own as all our needs are differnet.
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Grew up with LJ50s myself, and they were magic offroad, but it ended there. They could go over anything, and get up anything, but you can't carry more than a sleeping bag and a small tent, and expect tractors to overtake you on the open road. Some of the smaller vehicles are simply magic off-road, and if you don't mind the comfort of a small 4wd (none), then that's a bonus! Not bashing them, but when you buy a beetle, don't expect a rolls royce.
We used to do camping trips in them as a family if four. All around the Flinders and Fraser Island. My bother and I used to sit in the back in a big trunk full of all the camping gear.
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Coil sprung Suzuki Sierra? You can get them in a LWB version too.
If you are a masochist you could get a lada niva . Best off roader around just as reliable as a a lada is.LOL
Ferosa from memory is IFS. Rockies came with Leaf spring front though I thought at some stage there was a wide body one that may have had coils. Memory fading with age.
Daihatsu very reliable.
Can't get the LWB Sierra with coils, wouldn't bother with coils in them anyway. My old LWB Sierra rode beautifully with leaves. Travelled all over Vic, Flinders Ranges, innamincka, Coongie, high Country etc
Awesome cheap, reliable and capable 4wds
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Hey, out of interest I wanted to compare how the costs of 4wd's had changed over time and when I thought about it I realised it was probably quite easy to do because of one simple vehicle being the base model Landcruiser ute which other than mechanical/electrical updates shares a lot of commonality with it ancestors.
For the sake of comparison I looked at 1990 model and compared it to a 2014 model:
Price when new
1990 $32,088
2014 $60,790
It sounds like a lot but when you take into account inflation the cost of the 1990 model in today's dollars would be $57,808, probably not a lot considering the mechanical/electrical updates that the new car possesses.
Before someone has a go at me I can confirm that the stats show that average wages have grown at a rate higher than this.
Cheers,
Jason.
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After reading your post the curiosity got the better of me and had to Google what a SX4 is. Looks very nice, but for us there is no way we can get our family of 4 in along with our supplies to be self-sufficient and tow our camper trailer to places like Fraser Island for a week.
But each to their own as all our needs are differnet.
Yeah well it's only the missus and I now so the back seats are in the shed for trips away with the Jayco and with the double/single rear seat setup I only replace the back single for her running around town in case she needs to give a rare lift to a couple of the girlfriends or we're together and one more passenger needs a ride. In any case my Commode ute only has 2 bucket seats so the Suzy has one up on me like that. Very impressed by Suzuki's mighty mouse SUV, which is ideal as a fun getaway tug that doubles as an easy park runabout for the missus and that's critical if you've seen her parallel park ???
We are spoiled with modern cars nowadays and if any old fart tells you they aint like the good old days when men were men and could fix their own, just tell them that's cos you bloody well had to so often.
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By the way how does this compare with your tug?
Just changed the first set of brake pads on the front at 79200km after 10 days up the river. I'd bought the genuine Suzy pads previously for $68 trade and a snack to put in. I never bother with aftermarket stuff as the Jap Tokico kit in the Suzi box consisted of 4 identical pads (one for the driver's side has the metal contact warning) 4 large identical clip on shim pads and 2 more smaller stainless steel ones for the inside piston pads (don't ask me but pay attention when you're pulling them apart chum) plus a sachet of high temp copper grease to apply where the instructions state. That's why I don't use aftermarket, although I expected to pay up to $100 more for genuine pads so I got a pleasant surprise with the price. The missus previous Mitsi Colt shopping trolley managed 88000kms before a front pad change (they were over double the price) so not bad considering we've clocked 25000km plus towing with the Suzi.
I'm digging that little sucker more and more but when you're kicking and bucking on the edge up that rutted sand dune track and it's a very long back up, you've got your fingers and toes crossed you're not going to crest the rise and face a downhill run and an even bigger uphill dune after that cos you're only just making this one boyoh! It's all about looking cool, calm and collected on the outside while the missus grips the armrest and does all the panicking 8)
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Before someone has a go at me I can confirm that the stats show that average wages have grown at a rate higher than this.
Cheers,
Jason.
The " average wage " has gone up considerably because the " average person " is on a 6 figure income and is part of the mining boom
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I know it is getting harder and harder for me personally, on my income to keep 4 wheel driving. My son has brought the last couple of goodies for my Nissan (he works in the mining industry) which has helped me.
I just wonder though how many people are actually on the average wage. ???
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[quote .... I just wonder though how many people are actually on the average wage. ??? .... [/quote]
I know a hell of a lot that are working their guts out and sailing pretty close to straddling the povety line, going on last years figures JC ...
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I just wonder though how many people are actually on the average wage. ???
The majority of Australians will be much more interested in the median wage rather than the average wage. Positively skewed distributions are well understood in statistics and income distributions are the classic example of them-
http://mattcowgill.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/what-is-the-typical-australians-income-in-2013/ (http://mattcowgill.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/what-is-the-typical-australians-income-in-2013/)
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And there are other considerations than average or median income-
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/half-of-families-pay-no-net-tax-if-welfare-benefits-deducted-new-figures-reveal/story-fni0cms5-1226910739573 (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/half-of-families-pay-no-net-tax-if-welfare-benefits-deducted-new-figures-reveal/story-fni0cms5-1226910739573)
no doubt perplexing our betters in Canberra at present :-\
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I don't want to get into a big debate or anything but in summary the ABS break up their household income analysis into three segments being low income, medium income and high income.
The data suggests that all segments have a grown at a similar rate, a rate which is higher than inflation and supports my earlier observation.
I don't dispute that in recent years that the mining boom may be impacting across all segments, but these are long term figures which pre-date the recent mining boom so are still valid in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure that there is some ABS data that shows income distribution by geographic distribution and I think this may be more telling of a divide, I live in Toowoomba where we've had a mining boom to the west and looking at the local tradies incomes there is a clear divide between on and off mine. Take a sparky for example, off mine salaries between about $60-70k, on mine about $100-120k - some of our local mine sites are only an hours drive from here.
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The " average wage " has gone up considerably because the " average person " is on a 6 figure income and is part of the mining boom
I didnt think there was that many mining jobs around??????
Anyway, owning cars (not just 4wding) can be as expensive or as cheap as you like.. I personally dont buy new cars. My cruiser was $27,000 7 years ago when I brought it, and thats the most expensive car we've ever brought. My daily run around car for getting to work cost under $5,000. I can see myself spending a few $$$$ on my Torana, cant afford it all straight away, but I have time so Im happy with that ;D I do all my own servicing where I can - If I need special tools for a job that I'll do more than once I buy them. Chances are it works out about the same cost as getting someone else to do it, and I know its done right. The last time I got someone else to to something on my cruiser was when the autron cruise control was installed - No DIY kit available. I ended up redoing a heap of it as the install was Shit.
If you cant do any of the mechanical work then it may very well be cheaper to buy a new car and have cheaper services and warrenty take care of any problems. Some people are just plain sucked in by the advertising of new vehicles and think they need the features of whatever new car they get. Bit like what modifications people think they "need" to their 4wd. You can get away with a hell of a lot less than what some people do put on. End of the day I think most people spend what they can afford and do it in a way that suits them. Just dont spend your time following what everyone else is doing and do things the way you want - thats what I do :cheers:
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Cost of serious 4WDing is a hurdle for many but there are plenty of SUVs that can double for more modest towing and getting off the beaten track, as well as commuting, which explains their popularity and in our case the 2L Suzi SX4 fits the bill. The SX4 has been superceded by the 1.6L S-Cross at around $30k and I was thinking that's getting a bit low in engine capacity and was naturally surprised to see the auto AWD is rated to tow 1200kg with 75kg on the ball like our 2L. You'd think most wanting to tow would shell out a bit more for a Vitara under the circumstances, but they are getting some impressive neddies out of small motors nowadays.
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Having read through all this lMHO
What you spend is what You reckon is what you need or have to do the job .
Your level of kit depends on what you want to spend to do the job .
At every catch up we watch others with their kit & start to think , Ummm Geeeee that could be handy . The question is do you really need it . This is 1 way the cost of things can spiral out the window .
We can drive Tojo 200s or Jolly Green Nissans & get to the same camp fire at night . All extras/bling are really handy but if you were solo camping & you didn't have them would it matter , we would still get by & enjoy " The Great Outdoors " lMHO :cheers:
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Having read through all this lMHO
What you spend is what You reckon is what you need or have to do the job .
Your level of kit depends on what you want to spend to do the job .
At every catch up we watch others with their kit & start to think , Ummm Geeeee that could be handy . The question is do you really need it . This is 1 way the cost of things can spiral out the window .
We can drive Tojo 200s or Jolly Green Nissans & get to the same camp fire at night . All extras/bling are really handy but if you were solo camping & you didn't have them would it matter , we would still get by & enjoy " The Great Outdoors " lMHO :cheers:
:cup: :cup: :cup:
Agreed mate.
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It is if you want it to be.
I bought my patrol New in 2011 , since then did a heap of mods to it to make it better like suspension, tyres, locker, winch, barwork, electronic Gadgetry inside, exhaust, chip and more.
I haven't added up the total bill and I don't really want to either but I know that I can confidently get in and out of most tracks that I come across, in safety and comfort.
On the other hand I've had a few bush bashers that all they have costed is a few parts from mates sheds or the wreckers, a couple cartons of piss, a few weekends in the shed and a bit of fuel to get them going.
Which do I have more fun in?
BOTH
The patrol get me and the family out to places away from home and good camping trips
The bush bashers get me and the boys out on all out mayhem on the hardest tracks we can find.
The patrol is the more capable rig, but we have a hell of a time trying with the others.
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Some time ago there was a thread:
Cost of setting up a 4wd http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28192 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28192)
It was against the cost that I of the setup my Mahindra 4WD.
There seems to be some denial when it comes to cost or how much one spends -- or just a "don't want to know" in general.
Quotes from the thread:
I would never add up the set up cost. I would be in big trouble from someone if that information was made public
Can one of the moderators lock or delete this thread, I don't want to know and those that do know would probably not want to be reminded.....
I think when people work out how much they spend it just simply scares them >:D
:cheers:
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I think it is all relevant to what you want to get out of your rig. I have an old GQ as my daily driver and weekend toy mostly through financial reasons. I would love to have a new 200 or a <insert new $$$$ 4x4 variant here> but we can't afford to. We chose to put our kids through private schools and having a 20yo truck with 280,000 on the clock is the end result of that. And we are not sorry we did.
It still surprises me how little it owes me. Sure I put a new donk in a couple of years ago but apart from regular services and the occasional wear & tear item it costs very little to keep it on the road. I scour fleabay and gumtree for used stuff I may need (or SWMBO thinks I need) and have found some tidy stuff for bugger all dollars).
I still get a kick out of what the old bus can do and hope to have her around for a few years yet.
So don't think that you have to have the latest and greatest doodads. There is still life in the old buses yet. Just see how many GQ's and 80's there are out on the tracks on any given weekend. Plus if it gets scratched or dented I couldn't give a rats. (Well I do but I'm not gonna get all OCD over it)
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"I still get a kick out of what the old bus can do and hope to have her around for a few years yet."
SWMBO must be pleased.
"So don't think that you have to have the latest and greatest doodads."
We'd like to hear SWMBO's opinion on that
:worthles:
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The answer is probably yes.......................however, when did you last see a trailer behind a hearse?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0c/52/fb/0c52fb6bde72b5a038da2f4f51c82975.jpg)
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4wd repairs are no more expensive really than a normal vehicle and unless they are treated harshly (dont treat them like a submarine for example) they will be just as reliable as any other vehicle.
I find it amazing how much people spend on CT's but then again people would have choked on what I spent on rally cars. Back in the mid 90's we raced a rear wheel drive Mitsubishi Lancer and were running 1st in class and close to some of the 4wd turbo cars. The only way we did this was to put new front tyres on after every second stage and put the old fronts on the back. We would use up $400 each time and there was normally 8 stages so there goes $1600 just in tyres.
Later on, we were rallying just for fun and would get three rallies out of a set and just had fun.
The 'electronics' issue is really a furphy. They are no more likely to stuff up than an older vehicles coil, electronic ignition, points or distributor drive. Or clutch, or axle etc.
Agree about the cost of campers.. One doesn't have to have the latest and greatest.. Just as long as your equipment fulfills your needs and takes you where you want to go... and gets you home..
Don't agree on the electrics bit though.. The more mechanical the easiest to fix on the side of the road.. One of my pet examples would be when some Japanese designer who must hate the world decided the best location for the V8 Landcruiser starter motor would be in the most hottest and inaccessible location.. Try doing a simple stater motor change on the side of the road..
As long as your machinery is serviced and looked after, old can be just as good as new at a fraction of the cost..
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One of the issues is that we keep getting things to make life easy and what were once luxuries to be enjoyed at home we want to take with us. This seems to defeat the purpose of getting away from it all and getting back to nature.
So true, think along simiiar lines BB.
I reckon part of going away is to live in different places with a different lifestyle, all the mod cons seem to
make it to much like home.
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expensive ?
spending 100k to live like a hobo in the bush ?
nar