MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: bobnrob on October 17, 2013, 10:40:03 AM
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Speed/Redlight Camera's are always a hot topic. The discussions can be sensible or heated, with many *solutions*
Seen as we're not sitting in a Pub, figured we might be able to have an intelligent discussion, and see if anyone has a sensible solution to eradicate the apparent evil beast's...never know, YOU may have the winning idea ;)
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Keep to the speed limit.
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don't run red lights and don't speed ... quite simple ... I don't understand
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The above are correct. But Bob iam with you Bob occasionally you drift of concentration a bit and there is the risk of getting done. For me the danger ones are the school zones. Harder now as the NSW Government has made a concerted effort to get every zone a flashing sign hence harder to miss.
Can't see why we can't have a sensible debate about it? unless some clown starts policticing it .
For mine the cruza has the warnings in the GPS I have them enabled.
I think the speed component of the red light and speed ones are the bastards. And thank us lucky we are in NSW. The hidden traps and less than 5% rule are much tougher in Vic.
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don't run red lights and don't speed ... quite simple ... I don't understand
Totally agree... We need to pay attention all the time, too many deaths have occurred on our roads because of this.... I have attended many over the years.....
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Not sure I understand the real question here. Speeding, yeah we've all done it but we've only got ourselves to blame. Running red light, well I can't see any excuses for that one as it's flat our dangerous and if it's due to lack of attention maybe you shouldn't be on the road. If a member of your family was killed by someone running a red because they weren't paying attention would you forgive them?
Sent from the machine that goes..... Bing!
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I know somebody whose mother was killed by a truck whose driver thought that red lights didn't apply to him. She was first in line at the intersection, got the green, pulled out and bang.
If a red light camera fine and the points gets one bad driver off the road of make another pay a bit more attention then it's all right with me.
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I agree with red light cameras ...
As far as speed cameras etc... What about this ...
Where there is a fatality or several fatalities / accidents - restrict the speed zone for a kilometre or 2 in both directions by 20 km/h .. AND put fixed speed cameras in place
until there is a year of no accidents/speeding then remove the cameras and put speed back to what it was originally ..
Sneaky hidden speed cameras should be made illegal and all the motorist organisations should lobby their various authorities to have this done ..
My 20c worth ..
Mandrake
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I have no problems with speed cameras to enforce speedlimits from a saftey point of view... and if I speed I pay the price (if i get caught)
However, at the risk of politicising this, there are some occasions where you have to feel like it is about revenue.
I got a speeding fine this year for 99 in an 80 zone... sounds horrible on the surface but this is what happened. I was on a highway at night, with cruise control on 100 (well 99 it seems) I was literally alone on the highway. I came to an intersection (traffic lights) which I could see for miles was empty and I had a green light. The intersection also has the warning lights for when the light is about to change to Amber then Red (they where not flashing) so I continued on my way with cruise control on.
I missed several things
There is a redlight/speed camera on this intersection
The speed limit changes from 100 to 80 JUST before the intersection and goes back up to 100 JUST after the intersection.
To me this is not about saftey. Sometimes this intersection is busy, at which times it is impossible to go fast. When it is not busy, it is more than safe enough to maintain the speed (in my opinion)
I know I did the wrong thing by the law, I paid my fine (my first in 9 years) and moved on but I cant help but feel a little ripped off.
What's my solution? I think the cameras etc are fine, its inappropriate speed limits that are a joke
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Every state government would be broke without the revenue from speed cameras. FACT. I am more than happy for others to pay this "tax" ;D (and that's no attack or reflection on any previous poster's comments/actions)
KB
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Every state government would be broke without the revenue from speed cameras. FACT. I am more than happy for others to pay this "tax" ;D (and that's no attack or reflection on any previous poster's comments/actions)
KB
No Attack or offence taken... I broke the law, for which the punishment is a fine and some demerit points, which I paid...
Nothing really to be offended about. I guess what I was saying is that these are supposed to be for 'saftey' but really its not about that as you have basically said.
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I believe at times mobile speed cameras are just a revenue raiser and yes there are times where we get a bit unlucky, but really if you dont speed there is nothing to worry about.
As for red light cameras I think they should be on every set of traffic lights, its not hard to follow the rules, Ive lost a friend on a motor bike who was cleaned up by an idiot who decided the red light didnt need to be followed. The fine the driver got will never bring my mate back. If the cameras will help to stop this type of thing Im all for it.
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I believe at times mobile speed cameras are just a revenue raiser and yes there are times where we get a bit unlucky, but really if you dont speed there is nothing to worry about.
As for red light cameras I think they should be on every set of traffic lights, its not hard to follow the rules, Ive lost a friend on a motor bike who was cleaned up by an idiot who decided the red light didnt need to be followed. The fine the driver got will never bring my mate back. If the cameras will help to stop this type of thing Im all for it.
I am with you on Red Light Cameras... its pretty simple, I cant think of any circumstance where running a red light is excusible or safe (bar getting out of the way of emergency vehicles, where you are not really running it)
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I guess what I was saying is that these are supposed to be for 'safety' but really its not about that
You hit the nail on the head.
KB
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I agree with red light cameras ...
As far as speed cameras etc... What about this ...
Where there is a fatality or several fatalities / accidents - restrict the speed zone for a kilometre or 2 in both directions by 20 km/h .. AND put fixed speed cameras in place
until there is a year of no accidents/speeding then remove the cameras and put speed back to what it was originally ..
Sneaky hidden speed cameras should be made illegal and all the motorist organisations should lobby their various authorities to have this done ..
My 20c worth ..
Mandrake
Great post Mandrake and that is my opinion also. :police:
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A few years back I got done at 6:04am, on a Saturday morning at the intersections of Victoria Parade and Nicholson Street, Melbourne. Stopped at lights, got the green, take off. FLASH Done.
I get the photo, there is a great shot of the behind of the Cruiser with the 60 sign (and zone that I am about to enter) 20 mtrs in front of me. 56 in 50 zone.
That evening, at 6:18pm I am turning right onto St Georges road off Bell Street. After waiting my turn for five light changes, I am sitting behind one car as we wait for a break in the traffic. We are pretty much in the middle of the intersection, no mans land.
No break in traffic, the lights go amber, the guy in front is slow........ FLASH I am sure as well as myself, the two cars behind got done as well.
I certainly felt hard done by, but it would of cost more in travelling back to the city for court and accommodation then just taking it on the chin.
I am sure if there was a Police Officer there for either times, I would not have even be pulled up.
Now thinking about it, that was 2008, so I must have all my points back by now :D
Either way, they are here to stay and will catch plenty of bad drivers and still get the odd few that try to do the right thing, but slip up, have a bad day etc etc etc
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Drive someone else's car.
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I have no problem with speed or red light cameras my problem is multiple speed changes on roads due to school zones etc for example if you travel the full length of parramatta rd sydney it changes speed approx 17 times and this gets confusing.
To avoid this they should paint the lines a different colour for each zone say red for 50. Green for 60. Blue for 80 and the like
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That evening, at 6:18pm I am turning right onto St Georges road off Bell Street. After waiting my turn for five light changes, I am sitting behind one car as we wait for a break in the traffic. We are pretty much in the middle of the intersection, no mans land.
No break in traffic, the lights go amber, the guy in front is slow........ FLASH I am sure as well as myself, the two cars behind got done as well.
I hate that when people don't know how to turn right and go slow.
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I am sure if there was a Police Officer there for either times, I would not have even be pulled up.
That's sometimes the issue with camera's... no grey area
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Every state government would be broke without the revenue from speed cameras. FACT. I am more than happy for others to pay this "tax" ;D (and that's no attack or reflection on any previous poster's comments/actions)
KB
Hate the bloody things, however they are here to stay. Spoke to a bloke the other day and he was done for 76 -3=73. WTF? 3 over? I'm sure that will save someones life. NOT! Anyway come my way and I will look at your speed, if you are at least 10kph+ in a 60 + zone. I hate speeders and I believe that KB hit the spot about paying this tax. As far as red lights go, if you dont make an attempt to stop at the amber the same fine applies in VIC.
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I agree, speed camera's save nobody, they need to be where the accidents happen, in roundabouts and intersections, wait, not many people speed there!
Red light cameras should be on every intersection with lights. I cycle to work 3 days a week and the number of cars that run red lights is disturbing, yes I see more cars doing it than cyclists.
A couple of months ago I was hit by a red light runner, escaped with a few bruises but could have been a lot worse. As it was he got away scott free, if there was a camera there at least he would have a ticket for his trouble.
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I have no issues with
- Redlight Cameras
- the Booze Bus
- the Drug bus
Speed cameras (which they were originally called until someone went **** the lemmings are onto us! Change their name) on the bottom of hills, and on wide open spaces are a joke... Why not have them in school zones? Why not have them in back streets?
WHY HAVE THEM HIDING IN THE BUSHES?
Sending someone a fine in 7-14 days is not going to save anybodys life - Fact. If Im driving down the Oxley Hwy out from Walcha heading to Gingers today doing 290kph on my bike, sending me a fine in 14 days wont have slowed me down 14 days ago. Am I right? simple Yes or No.
Wheres the logic?
Cut the bull**** and admit they need the money (From memory South Australian Gov actually has it in the budget - I believe the only state to admit it) people would take them more serious and respect them if they scrapped the bull**** and treated everyone like they had an IQ.
130 on the Eastlink or Hume is not dangerous.
**** drivers are dangerous.
New rules to get your license
If it was up to me, it would be like some of the european countries where people have to go through 6-12 months of training to get their licenses.
There would no longer be any training with mum and dad fudging the log books (I've seem some ****ed up things learners doing with mummy just stalkerbooking away while little Shimon Thunder Devid Hippo Jedi (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/the-weirdest-baby-names-of-2012-read-them-and-weep/story-fnet08xa-1226536009955)just drives away without any instruction).
They would have to attend full basic driver training course, and advanced driver training courses. Compulsory to be in wet and dry and icy conditions. You then have to pass your test in each condition.
Cost = Who gives a ****, you want a license you earn it.
These courses would also teach people basic maintanance. How to change a tyre, check oil, radiator, tyre pressures, and windscreen washer fluid. Love a $$ for everytime I've seen someone on side of eastlink unable to change a flat tyre! At least 2 day ??? ???
They would be forced to take 2 weeks tuition in a semi trailer as a passenger - to find out how ****ing hard it can be to stop.
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I have no issues with
- Redlight Cameras
- the Booze Bus
- the Drug bus
Speed cameras (which they were originally called until someone went **** the lemmings are onto us! Change their name) on the bottom of hills, and on wide open spaces are a joke... Why not have them in school zones? Why not have them in back streets?
WHY HAVE THEM HIDING IN THE BUSHES?
Sending someone a fine in 7-14 days is not going to save anybodys life - Fact. If Im driving down the Oxley Hwy out from Walcha heading to Gingers today doing 290kph on my bike, sending me a fine in 14 days wont have slowed me down 14 days ago. Am I right? simple Yes or No.
Wheres the logic?
Cut the bull**** and admit they need the money (From memory South Australian Gov actually has it in the budget - I believe the only state to admit it) people would take them more serious and respect them if they scrapped the bull**** and treated everyone like they had an IQ.
130 on the Eastlink or Hume is not dangerous.
**** drivers are dangerous.
New rules to get your license
If it was up to me, it would be like some of the european countries where people have to go through 6-12 months of training to get their licenses.
There would no longer be any training with mum and dad fudging the log books (I've seem some ****ed up things learners doing with mummy just stalkerbooking away while little Shimon Thunder Devid Hippo Jedi (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/the-weirdest-baby-names-of-2012-read-them-and-weep/story-fnet08xa-1226536009955)just drives away without any instruction).
They would have to attend full basic driver training course, and advanced driver training courses. Compulsory to be in wet and dry and icy conditions. You then have to pass your test in each condition.
Cost = Who gives a ****, you want a license you earn it.
These courses would also teach people basic maintanance. How to change a tyre, check oil, radiator, tyre pressures, and windscreen washer fluid. Love a $$ for everytime I've seen someone on side of eastlink unable to change a flat tyre! At least 2 day ??? ???
They would be forced to take 2 weeks tuition in a semi trailer as a passenger - to find out how ****ing hard it can be to stop.
Slightly OT but I agree with your opinion about making it harder for people to get a license. People are not taught to drive they are taught how to pass a test!!
I also think that towing anything should be an additional class on your license a "towing license" if you will.
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I also think that towing anything should be an additional class on your license a "towing license" if you will.
That is one I strongly agree with, To drive a truck you need a special licence yet anyone can go and buy a BT 50 or something with a large towing capacity and put a 3 tonne van or trailer behind it with no worries and no idea.
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I have no problem with speed or red light cameras my problem is multiple speed changes on roads due to school zones etc for example if you travel the full length of parramatta rd sydney it changes speed approx 17 times and this gets confusing.
To avoid this they should paint the lines a different colour for each zone say red for 50. Green for 60. Blue for 80 and the like
The Great Western Highway across the Blue Mountains is the worst road I have travelled on for speed limits. There are constantly work zones etc. to muddy the waters.
The last time I was driving (west to east) I came into a work zone. On the left side of the road was a 40Kph sign, and on the right side of the road was a 60Kph sign. Both intended for my direction of travel.
Further down there was a workzone amrked at 40, the workzone ended and the speed went back to 80, then 50m down the road another work zone and back to 40.
Best way to lose your license is to drive over the mountains via the GWH.
Bunyip
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For the SPEED issue surely being that at least 99% of cars / trucks these days have electronic fuel injection, A authorized preset over speed limeter could be retro fitted at a rego inspection station, That works along the lines of a rev limiter once the over speed is reached and resets when speed falls below the preset .. For differing speed zones, there would need to be an electronic signaler to tell it of differing speed zones .. ..For a small [ couple of hundred at most ] once off fee or factory fitted in new cars you couldnt argue against it ..
It could be fitted to older types of petrol and diesels in the form of a spark cut and fuel cut device.
It still allows you to pull high revs in lower gears as its Gps fed and not engine speed related ..
The Tech for this has been around for many many years, Europe has had elctronic speed signes [ adjustable ] for years and monitored roads.. Just our antiquated out of touch traffic polocies / roads here arnt up to the Tech of the cars and era that we drive / live in ..
RED LIGHTS camera's, School zones etc I have no issue with ..
That Answer it for you Bob ?
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Yep, the testing to get a drivers licence is crap.
Same with boats and bikes too.
I sat for the boat licence and went straight out and bought a 30 footer, EXCEPT, i had a very experienced mate skipper it from the gold coast to bribie and i spent the time and money to book the licence guy for a 2 hour, one on one tuition.
I'd like to think, i'm slightly smarter than the average bear. ;D
Except, i blew that theory today, when cleaning the Jeep and found a one year old Macca's fry down the side of the seat.
Still looked really good too and i knew not to do it, but i bit into it to see if it was eatable..... it wasn't. :-[
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You cannot make it harder for people to get their licence. Why? Because it would be against human rights. Human Rights Charter, what a bloody joke. ;D
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Yes don't speed and you won't have a problem. The most frustrating thing is overtaking a slower vehicle and staying within the speed limit. That can be hard. You need a very long straight road to do that easily.
Mark
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That evening, at 6:18pm I am turning right onto St Georges road off Bell Street. After waiting my turn for five light changes, I am sitting behind one car as we wait for a break in the traffic. We are pretty much in the middle of the intersection, no mans land.
No break in traffic, the lights go amber, the guy in front is slow........ FLASH I am sure as well as myself, the two cars behind got done as well.
Just for reference on this one:
If the light is green and there are vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, you should move forward into the intersection past the STOP line if you can do so safely. If there is a safe gap in oncoming traffic, you may complete the turn. If you are in the intersection and the oncoming traffic continues until the lights turn yellow or red, you must complete the turn on the yellow or red light.
From http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-road-rules/Road-rules-refresher/Traffic-lights.aspx
It is also covered in the Australia Road Rules - Rule 58 deals with when a driver does not have to stop for a red traffic light.
(5) If the traffic lights or traffic arrows (as the case may be) change to yellow or red while the driver is stopped and the driver has entered the intersection, the driver must leave the intersection as soon as the driver can do so safely.
Based on rule 58, you could have submitted a written dispute to the infringement notice and had the penalty revoked.
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The big issue I have with fixed and hidden speed cameras is the now constant need to watch the speedo instead of focusing on traffic conditions around the vehicle. Driving in the Sydney Harbour Tunnel and the Lane Cove Tunnel are two of the worst locations as they both have significant inclines, so it is very easy to pick up speed and creep over the limit. Moreso if you are towing a reasonable load. I find that when driving in these locations, I spend more time worrying about the speed I'm doing that watching for the actions of other drivers (who are also distracted by their speed monitoring).
I'm not sure how they allow for a compromise without it being open to abuse, but commonsense needs to come into play at some point. Putting a camera at the bottom of a slope, then hitting people with infringement notices for 3km/h over the limit is a joke. Average speed monitoring would be a far better system IMHO for these tunnels and motorways/freeways.
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Agree with speed cameras and red light cameras but getting booked for doing less than 5km over the speed limit is a friggin joke.
not long finished watching the movie 'the purge' oh what an epic concept to rid anyone that dissagrees with me or the moron that i saw not too long ago that must have been doin 100 in a school area, grrrrr
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Speed cameras (which they were originally called until someone went **** the lemmings are onto us! Change their name) on the bottom of hills, and on wide open spaces are a joke... Why not have them in school zones? Why not have them in back streets?
WHY HAVE THEM HIDING IN THE BUSHES?
Sending someone a fine in 7-14 days is not going to save anybodys life - Fact. If Im driving down the Oxley Hwy out from Walcha heading to Gingers today doing 290kph on my bike, sending me a fine in 14 days wont have slowed me down 14 days ago. Am I right? simple Yes or No.
Wheres the logic?
I agree with Lost on this one. . . . .
What you need is a big burly copper pulling you up & waving his book at you to make any diffrence. A naughty note in the mail a few weeks after the fact aint working. . . . .
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Do the crime do the time. I get knocked off for speeding I pay the fine. Yep I'll be pi$$ed and probably blame everyone but I'll be most pi$$ed at myself.
You cannot make it harder for people to get their licence. Why? Because it would be against human rights. Human Rights Charter, what a bloody joke. ;D
I reckon its too easy to get a license and too easy to keep it. This might be a bit of my "job hat" coming into the conversation but why don't you have to be re-tested for a license? You get a license when you are 18 and thats it. Surely you should have to re-sit a test at set periods to prove you can still drive safely? That would have save my dad having a number of accidents as they would have takens his license years ago. If someone has to continually prove they are competent to use a power saw, then shouldn't a car/truck/bus/bike be the same?
The other thing I think should happen is GPS trackers in P platers cars, and anyone who has a "hoon" reputation. If there is such a problem with young drivers and "hoons", then track them. Make it compulsory to download the data weekly and any breaches are dealt with. If you have nothing to hide, wouldn't be a problem.
Well that my 2.2c (GST) anyway.
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Just for reference on this one:
If the light is green and there are vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, you should move forward into the intersection past the STOP line if you can do so safely. If there is a safe gap in oncoming traffic, you may complete the turn. If you are in the intersection and the oncoming traffic continues until the lights turn yellow or red, you must complete the turn on the yellow or red light.
From http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-road-rules/Road-rules-refresher/Traffic-lights.aspx
It is also covered in the Australia Road Rules - Rule 58 deals with when a driver does not have to stop for a red traffic light.
(5) If the traffic lights or traffic arrows (as the case may be) change to yellow or red while the driver is stopped and the driver has entered the intersection, the driver must leave the intersection as soon as the driver can do so safely.
Based on rule 58, you could have submitted a written dispute to the infringement notice and had the penalty revoked.
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The big issue I have with fixed and hidden speed cameras is the now constant need to watch the speedo instead of focusing on traffic conditions around the vehicle. Driving in the Sydney Harbour Tunnel and the Lane Cove Tunnel are two of the worst locations as they both have significant inclines, so it is very easy to pick up speed and creep over the limit. Moreso if you are towing a reasonable load. I find that when driving in these locations, I spend more time worrying about the speed I'm doing that watching for the actions of other drivers (who are also distracted by their speed monitoring).
I'm not sure how they allow for a compromise without it being open to abuse, but commonsense needs to come into play at some point. Putting a camera at the bottom of a slope, then hitting people with infringement notices for 3km/h over the limit is a joke. Average speed monitoring would be a far better system IMHO for these tunnels and motorways/freeways.
Why didn't I know you back then :'(
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The other thing I think should happen is GPS trackers in P platers cars, and anyone who has a "hoon" reputation. If there is such a problem with young drivers and "hoons", then track them. Make it compulsory to download the data weekly and any breaches are dealt with. If you have nothing to hide, wouldn't be a problem.
Great idea.
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What you need is a big burly copper pulling you up & waving his book at you to make any diffrence. .
Yep, that worked for decades, ... Ray Warren or Rex Messup TV Commentator used to tell story of when they were kids, the local Sgt dragging them home with a kick up the arse then their dad would give em one too.. ahhhhh the good days when you could punish your kids for ****ing up....
But with the lowering and lowering and dropping and lowering of entry requirements to be a cop these days cause nobody wants to be one, they are few and far between.
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Just for reference on this one:
If the light is green and there are vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, you should move forward into the intersection past the STOP line if you can do so safely. If there is a safe gap in oncoming traffic, you may complete the turn. If you are in the intersection and the oncoming traffic continues until the lights turn yellow or red, you must complete the turn on the yellow or red light.
From http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-road-rules/Road-rules-refresher/Traffic-lights.aspx
It is also covered in the Australia Road Rules - Rule 58 deals with when a driver does not have to stop for a red traffic light.
(5) If the traffic lights or traffic arrows (as the case may be) change to yellow or red while the driver is stopped and the driver has entered the intersection, the driver must leave the intersection as soon as the driver can do so safely.
Not quite right. If you stop after the stop line, you may not have necessarily entered the intersection. The intersection is where the cross traffic would run into you. The stop line, pedestrian crossing area and maybe another half a metre or so are not the intersection. Basically a car could be here and has to stay.
Red light cameras in vic are supposed to detect both axles going over the sensor, which is after the stop line. It takes 2 photos to be valid.
Cameras are good. They can work a lot faster than a policeman, detecting and processing offenders at a rate a human couldn't possibly work at. They have made a huge impact on the road toll.
The idea of putting in place after a fatal sounds good, ....... except who will "volunteer" to be the reason for a new camera site?
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The Great Western Highway across the Blue Mountains is the worst road I have travelled on for speed limits. There are constantly work zones etc. to muddy the waters.
The last time I was driving (west to east) I came into a work zone. On the left side of the road was a 40Kph sign, and on the right side of the road was a 60Kph sign. Both intended for my direction of travel.
Further down there was a workzone amrked at 40, the workzone ended and the speed went back to 80, then 50m down the road another work zone and back to 40.
Best way to lose your license is to drive over the mountains via the GWH.
Bunyip
Mate the blue mountains has being like that for the last 25years ( at least)
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Mate the blue mountains has being like that for the last 25years ( at least)
Coming back from Bathurst bike races one year, we had a cop with a speed camera stop - try and get us, jump in take off, go flying past us, stop - try again, - he did that about 4-6 times before giving up...
But you are correct.. Like Roberts Road in Chullora - that was roadworks for about 20 years.
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Here's one solution proposed by a local radio talk back host http://citynews.com.au/2013/say-goodbye-to-speeding/ (http://citynews.com.au/2013/say-goodbye-to-speeding/)
I suppose all those posters saying that anyone who exceeds the speed limit deserves to get booked would support such a scheme, after all... same principle applies right?
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Here's one solution proposed by a local radio talk back host http://citynews.com.au/2013/say-goodbye-to-speeding/ (http://citynews.com.au/2013/say-goodbye-to-speeding/)
I suppose all those posters saying that anyone who exceeds the speed limit deserves to get booked would support such a scheme, after all... same principle applies right?
While I don't know I'd like that idea I do agree that it could work in most circumstances. I gather by your comment that you disagree that if you speed you deserve to be fined?
Sent from the machine that goes..... Bing!
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if I had my way I'd be seriously ramping up red light cameras. being t-boned is no fun.
as for speeding, agree with most posters that there are bigger dangers out there than being 5-10kph over the limit like
drunks
drugs
distractions like texting behind the wheel
dickheads who can't follow basic road rules
and so forth
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if I had my way I'd be seriously ramping up red light cameras. being t-boned is no fun.
as for speeding, agree with most posters that there are bigger dangers out there than being 5-10kph over the limit like
drunks
drugs
distractions like texting behind the wheel
dickheads who can't follow basic road rules
and so forth
Very well said!
Just add all the arrogant selfish pricks (and whatever the female version is) who think that rules should not apply to them because they are brilliant drivers and should be allowed to do as they like.
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OK, here's a question for everyone. Prove to me that "speed kills" like all the road safety campaigns claim. No, I'm not being a smart bottom, I just have a particular view on the subject and am interested if anybody else has that same view.
KB
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Marcus, Maybe yes, maybe no. At least a policeman can make a judgement on that whereas a speed camera cannot. Why? Because a speed camera is there to raise revenue under the guise of public safety.
The problem with a speed limit is that it upholds the notion that there is a magical number of kph which for a given stretch of road is safe to drive slower and unsafe to drive faster.
Consider all the other variables which are not (and cannot) be taken into account.
- Vehicle. Capability/age/condition
- Driver. Skill/state of mind/health/alertness
- Weather. Rain/hail/snow
- Time of day/Light conditions
- Load/weight/trailer, etc
- Traffic conditions
One can easily recognise that all these factors must figure hugely on the speed that a vehicle can safely be driven, but none of them NONE are part of the speed limit equation. A 90yo man driving a 1975 clapped out Toyota Corona at night in pouring rain and heavy traffic can drive at the limit without breaking the law, and certainly without triggering any speed camera but then along comes Craig Loundes in his late model Holden with ABS and advanced safety features at 5kph over the limit and cops a fine. Which one is the greater risk to public safety?
So no, I don't think that anyone that creeps over the limit deserves a fine, just as I don't think it's true to say that anyone driving under the limit is driving safely.
If slower is safer then why not reduce the limits even further. Let's take it to extreme and say the limit on all roads shall be 1kph and all speeding is punishable with imprisonment. Sound silly? But surely the road toll will be slashed to almost zero. That's lot of lives but yet nobody is proposing this. Why? Because it turns out there is a trade-off between convenience/cost and safety.
And while I'm on my soapbox, have you even noticed that when road accidents are reported they always say "speed was a factor". well duhhh. Of course speed was a factor unless the vehicles were stationary at the time, it had to be. sheesh!
Another one... highway safety signs that say "SLOW DOWN". Why? Do they assume everyone is speeding. If you are already 10kph under the limit and you see this sign, do you still need to slow down. Are you breaking the law if you maintain your speed?
As to the OP's question.. My solution is to use a GPS with speed camera alerts. AFAIK it's the only way, apart from never speeding.
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Speed doesn't kill. The sudden stop does.
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Think Brucer just answered my question correctly. Well said.
Speed does not kill. Or else every race car/bike driver/rider would die. INAPPROPRIATE speed kills. Inappropriate speed for the driver's ability/experience/etc. Inappropriate speed for the vehicle. Inappropriate speed for the weather, road conditions etc.
- Vehicle. Capability/age/condition
- Driver. Skill/state of mind/health/alertness/intoxication
- Weather. Rain/hail/snow
- Time of day/Light conditions
- Load/weight/trailer, etc
- Traffic conditions
But nobody would understand or take notice of a safety campaign along these lines. They would all think they are experienced and their vehicle is the best and the road isn't really that wet. So the authorities have to make it simple. So, no, speed does not kill, but inappropriate speed does.
KB
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Marcus, Maybe yes, maybe no. At least a policeman can make a judgement on that whereas a speed camera cannot. Why? Because a speed camera is there to raise revenue under the guise of public safety.
The problem with a speed limit is that it upholds the notion that there is a magical number of kph which for a given stretch of road is safe to drive slower and unsafe to drive faster.
Consider all the other variables which are not (and cannot) be taken into account.
- Vehicle. Capability/age/condition
- Driver. Skill/state of mind/health/alertness
- Weather. Rain/hail/snow
- Time of day/Light conditions
- Load/weight/trailer, etc
- Traffic conditions
One can easily recognise that all these factors must figure hugely on the speed that a vehicle can safely be driven, but none of them NONE are part of the speed limit equation. A 90yo man driving a 1975 clapped out Toyota Corona at night in pouring rain and heavy traffic can drive at the limit without breaking the law, and certainly without triggering any speed camera but then along comes Craig Loundes in his late model Holden with ABS and advanced safety features at 5kph over the limit and cops a fine. Which one is the greater risk to public safety?
So no, I don't think that anyone that creeps over the limit deserves a fine, just as I don't think it's true to say that anyone driving under the limit is driving safely.
If slower is safer then why not reduce the limits even further. Let's take it to extreme and say the limit on all roads shall be 1kph and all speeding is punishable with imprisonment. Sound silly? But surely the road toll will be slashed to almost zero. That's lot of lives but yet nobody is proposing this. Why? Because it turns out there is a trade-off between convenience/cost and safety.
And while I'm on my soapbox, have you even noticed that when road accidents are reported they always say "speed was a factor". well duhhh. Of course speed was a factor unless the vehicles were stationary at the time, it had to be. sheesh!
Another one... highway safety signs that say "SLOW DOWN". Why? Do they assume everyone is speeding. If you are already 10kph under the limit and you see this sign, do you still need to slow down. Are you breaking the law if you maintain your speed?
As to the OP's question.. My solution is to use a GPS with speed camera alerts. AFAIK it's the only way, apart from never speeding.
Some really good points there that I defiantly agree with. My main point is that if you know what the limit is and choose to go over it and I'm not talking about 5 - 10kph, then drivers should be aware of the consequences. I think I may have taken some of your other post the wrong way and apologise. It's one of those what I read is not necessarily what you meant moments. I couldn't agree more with your comment regarding police officer vs camera though
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