MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cloud Basher on August 10, 2013, 03:41:10 PM
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I am not sure about other people but one thing I absolutely HATE is being told what to think and what to do. People keep saying Australia is the lucky country, that we have freedom of speech and that we can pretty much do what we want, when we want, where we want.
It appears that even the Internet, which is the greatest way to share information, is not immune to those who would try and use it to stop the spread of factual information.
Here at myswag I am generally a lurker. I like to read, see what others are doing, have done, what they think and how they have solved problems. I like to read people's experiences of things they use, things they have seen and things their mates have used.
We were all novices at everything at some stage. Prior to the Internet we had to rely on what our "mates" had spent their hard earned on, what they had experience with and what worked for them. Indeed, I know I certainly "learnt" a heap sitting at the knee of my dad, his friends and relatives as they discussed the topics of the day, what they had just purchased, how good it was and what they would do differently if they had their time (and money) again.
I don't know about a lot of people here but certainly I like to research everything I can about a topic, about a product or about a service prior to spending my hard earned mon it. With my monthly power bill having trebled in the last five years I can ill afford not to. I am certainly more money than time poor.
I find it amusing that any company can complain about people doing exactly what dad, my uncles and their friends did, back in the day. They get to try and enforce their will upon me by threatening to take everything I have worked hard for just because I wish to state facts about a product, a service or some other experience that does not align with their view of the world. They are free to spread their view of their product or service on the internet from their perspective but they DARE to try and stop me from stating my factual experiences or those of my fiends with that product? myswag and any other internet sites are just the modern version of sitting at dads knee listening to stories.
Yep, the audience may be a bit wider and those "friends" are not friends that we know, they are friends that simply share a common love of whatever topic that thread or website is about. This "sitting at dads knee" listening to our friends stories about a topic we all know and love is the reason these sites exist.
I can understand the providers of those services or products having a disagreement with some of these discussions but the Internet is a two way street. Previously without the Internet the audience may have been smaller, but the companies or people had no right of reply. Nowadays anyone can get on and defend their ideals, their thoughts their products or their services as much as someone can relay theirs or their friends experiences with that product, good or service. This is what makes the Internet great.
But when a company comes along and threatens the ability of people to relay their experiences I get my back up. I make it my mission in life to ensure that me, or ANY SINGLE PERSON I know NEVER EVER has any experience with that company. I could care less if theirs is the best product in the world. I could care less if they have the best customer service in the world. My right to state experiences i have had with a product is sacrosanct. ANY company or person who infringes my right to free speech will certainly be the receiver of me spreading the word about that company.
I have been told I am in an influential person. My bosses both like and hate that - depending on how my point of view differs from their's at the time. Good bosses know how to use that influence, the bad bosses I have always had issues with. Suffice to say I believe I am good at getting my point across and getting people to see my way.
At last count I am on 25 forums that cover everything from politics to aviation to firearms to the environment to bush walking to 4wding to motorbike riding etc. I reckon I could conceivably have an audience of around 100,000 people (some forums have around 2000 members, others upwards of 40,000). Those 100,000 people may have ten friends each, which, if they believe what I believe or I can convince them of will speak with ten other people. That is a million people who could conceivably read or at least be directly or indirectly influenced by what I write or say. That is amazing to me.
So in these dealings I will make sure that any company that it tries to stop me from reading about or saying what I want that comes from mine, or my mates experiences, I will make sure those million people get the information of that attempt to stop me saying it. Good luck to anyone or any company that tries to stop that from occurring. You may be the bully, you may try and use "the law" to shut people up, but by god, you WILL NOT silence the people and stop the truth coming out. You should have tried to put your case forward, tried to fix any perceived errors. Not everyone will agree with you, but you could have tried. In fact if that happens I also tell people of those situations where a person or company tried to do the right thing. Even though the actual situation may be negative the outcome can be positive. But try and stifle me from having my say and all you are doing is delaying the inevitable.
To Brett, the moderators and the other owners of forums who may have been threatened by companies or individuals who try and censor people's factual statements, I will support your forums. I will not be hushed, and fear not, the good work these forums do will be equally spread to those million odd people as much as the word about those companies who threaten my right to free speech are. In doing this I WILL respect the owners and moderators stance on things, this is after all, their house and their rules, so nothing I do will have any way of threatening them personally or financially.
But if anyone thinks this sort of action will silence the people, will stop the truth coming out, then they simply do not understand the internet, social media or the way the modern world works. This is a not a flyer drop or a newspaper that you can stop the publication of.
To my fellow myswaggers and Australians, keep the faith.
Cheers
CB
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Trouble is, we usually give an inch thinking its only an inch who cares?
Before long its ten inches and then its a yard, then its far too late.
Political correctness and the law have gone crazy.
I get into more trouble if I run a red light than if I bash someone to within an inch of their life??? What's with that....
And in case anyone thinks I've done either of them - I haven't.
Now I'll type the 25 pages of disclaimers and associated crappola that goes with it.........
Yeah right - NOT LIKELY!!!
The country's gone mad - didn't you get that email???
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Nicely put and I do 100% agree. And it makes me wonder who's sparked this.
My Gran would also point out that there is always a time and a place where it may be prudent to keep one's mouth firmly closed ... for sensitivities sake of course.
Kit_e
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In general Companies dont want to stop discussion about their product; They want to stop any negative discussion about their product.
Here lies the problem and provides the company with a solution; if people search the internet for a brand name and only find good comments because all of the negatives have been removed = great internet "word of mouth" for their product.
The company wins the buyer loses.
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Be careful not to take this thread where it shouldn't folks or it will get zapped.
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=31568.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=31568.0)
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Well said Cloud Basher. I like a lot of other people share your view point, even if we might not be able to express it a well as yourself. No one likes a bully, especially when they have a better way of addressing a situation.
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What a great post Cloud Basher :cup: Definitely agree with you, especially as I am a committee member on another recently affected forum
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We were all novices at everything at some stage. Prior to the Internet we had to rely on what our "mates" had spent their hard earned on, what they had experience with and what worked for them. Indeed, I know I certainly "learnt" a heap sitting at the knee of my dad, his friends and relatives as they discussed the topics of the day, what they had just purchased, how good it was and what they would do differently if they had their time (and money) again.
Hopefully this sort of thing still happens. The internet is a very useful tool for getting info, but at the end of the day I like to be able to see things and talk to people as well. History tells us that trying to silence the people doesn't always have the desired result!
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So if I start some trash talk, does that mean I wouldn't have read about bloody Jayco's anymore on the forum? >:D
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Hi Swaggers
Yes, what everyone has to say is reasonable, but at the same time, Brett, the man behind the MySwag site, hence the person who has allowed such a wonderful family to develop online, has his name and website on the line here, and I believe that if we fully respect what he has done for us by establishing such a good site, then we must respect what he has said, and NOT discuss, even by innuendo, what he has said not to discuss.
Surely it is easy enough to leave a topic alone until all possible trouble has been stopped, therefore giving Brett the respect he deserves.
Regards
Tjupurula
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Extremely well said and written fairly.
Unfortunately I think this is really the beginning of the end for free speech on the internet, and its been happening for a few years now. A lot of companies now spend more and more time monitoring forums and the internet in general trying to stamp out any bad publicity. The funny thing is rather then put their money behind their product and try and improve it they take the easy route and pay a lawyer to stop the bad press before it begins. With the way lawyers charge you'd think it wouldn't be that much more expensive to just address the product issues and move on.
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:'(
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Iam with Cloud basher. But will respect the wishes of Brett, its his ass on the line. of course if Brett needs help defend his site, he only needs to ask.
In regards to companies, I think going forward we need to be more noticeable of companies like ARB and Ironman who come on to the forums and address negative posts to a satisfactory outcome. These are companies that need support and promotion.
I personally can't wait till the next caravan and camping show. I will donate a spare 15-20mins educating random customers on CTs. :cheers:
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Certain companies are not worth talking about. But some companies stir so much debate, and I really don't know why.
Quote from our mate Lost.
"Some companies you wouldn't piss on".
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I am admin/part owner of Aussies largest hunting forum, one company beretta Australia was suffering big time with customer dissatisfaction. Instead of lawyering up, they became financial sponsors and put their national sales manager on the forum to fix it.......and they kicked goals, from out house to royalty, and all because they listened to their customers, and swallowed the Shit sandwich.
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I am not sure about other people but one thing I absolutely HATE is being told what to think and what to do. People keep saying Australia is the lucky country, that we have freedom of speech and that we can pretty much do what we want, when we want, where we want.
It appears that even the Internet, which is the greatest way to share information, is not immune to those who would try and use it to stop the spread of factual information.
Here at myswag I am generally a lurker. I like to read, see what others are doing, have done, what they think and how they have solved problems. I like to read people's experiences of things they use, things they have seen and things their mates have used.
We were all novices at everything at some stage. Prior to the Internet we had to rely on what our "mates" had spent their hard earned on, what they had experience with and what worked for them. Indeed, I know I certainly "learnt" a heap sitting at the knee of my dad, his friends and relatives as they discussed the topics of the day, what they had just purchased, how good it was and what they would do differently if they had their time (and money) again.
I don't know about a lot of people here but certainly I like to research everything I can about a topic, about a product or about a service prior to spending my hard earned mon it. With my monthly power bill having trebled in the last five years I can ill afford not to. I am certainly more money than time poor.
I find it amusing that any company can complain about people doing exactly what dad, my uncles and their friends did, back in the day. They get to try and enforce their will upon me by threatening to take everything I have worked hard for just because I wish to state facts about a product, a service or some other experience that does not align with their view of the world. They are free to spread their view of their product or service on the internet from their perspective but they DARE to try and stop me from stating my factual experiences or those of my fiends with that product? myswag and any other internet sites are just the modern version of sitting at dads knee listening to stories.
Yep, the audience may be a bit wider and those "friends" are not friends that we know, they are friends that simply share a common love of whatever topic that thread or website is about. This "sitting at dads knee" listening to our friends stories about a topic we all know and love is the reason these sites exist.
I can understand the providers of those services or products having a disagreement with some of these discussions but the Internet is a two way street. Previously without the Internet the audience may have been smaller, but the companies or people had no right of reply. Nowadays anyone can get on and defend their ideals, their thoughts their products or their services as much as someone can relay theirs or their friends experiences with that product, good or service. This is what makes the Internet great.
But when a company comes along and threatens the ability of people to relay their experiences I get my back up. I make it my mission in life to ensure that me, or ANY SINGLE PERSON I know NEVER EVER has any experience with that company. I could care less if theirs is the best product in the world. I could care less if they have the best customer service in the world. My right to state experiences i have had with a product is sacrosanct. ANY company or person who infringes my right to free speech will certainly be the receiver of me spreading the word about that company.
I have been told I am in an influential person. My bosses both like and hate that - depending on how my point of view differs from their's at the time. Good bosses know how to use that influence, the bad bosses I have always had issues with. Suffice to say I believe I am good at getting my point across and getting people to see my way.
At last count I am on 25 forums that cover everything from politics to aviation to firearms to the environment to bush walking to 4wding to motorbike riding etc. I reckon I could conceivably have an audience of around 100,000 people (some forums have around 2000 members, others upwards of 40,000). Those 100,000 people may have ten friends each, which, if they believe what I believe or I can convince them of will speak with ten other people. That is a million people who could conceivably read or at least be directly or indirectly influenced by what I write or say. That is amazing to me.
So in these dealings I will make sure that any company that it tries to stop me from reading about or saying what I want that comes from mine, or my mates experiences, I will make sure those million people get the information of that attempt to stop me saying it. Good luck to anyone or any company that tries to stop that from occurring. You may be the bully, you may try and use "the law" to shut people up, but by god, you WILL NOT silence the people and stop the truth coming out. You should have tried to put your case forward, tried to fix any perceived errors. Not everyone will agree with you, but you could have tried. In fact if that happens I also tell people of those situations where a person or company tried to do the right thing. Even though the actual situation may be negative the outcome can be positive. But try and stifle me from having my say and all you are doing is delaying the inevitable.
To Brett, the moderators and the other owners of forums who may have been threatened by companies or individuals who try and censor people's factual statements, I will support your forums. I will not be hushed, and fear not, the good work these forums do will be equally spread to those million odd people as much as the word about those companies who threaten my right to free speech are. In doing this I WILL respect the owners and moderators stance on things, this is after all, their house and their rules, so nothing I do will have any way of threatening them personally or financially.
But if anyone thinks this sort of action will silence the people, will stop the truth coming out, then they simply do not understand the internet, social media or the way the modern world works. This is a not a flyer drop or a newspaper that you can stop the publication of.
To my fellow myswaggers and Australians, keep the faith.
Cheers
CB
What did I miss ???
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I seriously think that the BAR association has let us down and needs to sanction the lawyers involved as they threaten legal action relating to NSW defamation law which doesnt allow for defaming a company with 10 or more employees (which they have), its abuse of their standing in the publics eyes. The abuse is because to challenge it will cost thousands or more just to put it to the test, something most people dont want to test.
Of course if they did it under qld or vic law it would be fine as they dont have the same safe guards as far as im aware.
I will never use the law firm that has done this.
I agree with cloud basher, i will go out of my way to let everyone know of the issues ive seen with certain brands who use this tactic and promote those who resolve things or at least make an effort to resolve.
Chris
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
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Part of me would be to curious and reply to the letter saying the thread has been removed and after reading the whole thread I would like to know what of the thread is defamatory. I hereby give you 28 days to reply to me informing me of which is defamatory. If you reply the defamatory parts will be deleted. If you have not replied to me set out what is defamatory and why, the thread in entirety will be reposted.
Throw it back to them to quantify their allegations of defamatory. They do have to definition between defamation and negative feedback.
But that is just me.
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ARB and Beretta Australia (I saw this work on the hunting board) and numerous other companies that have actually ponied up, admitted there was mistakes and then actually treat their customers as human beings and try to come to a satisfactory solution, are the ones I will continue to support and are prime examples of what I spoke about in my original post of companies doing the right thing after something was discovered and it was aired.
No company could reasonably expect to have everything go perfectly well, to satisfy every customer, every time as we are all human and have different needs, wants and expectations. Indeed products and services are delivered by humans so there will be errors. But what these companies know and what we as customers REALLY look for, is, if there is a problem, if there is an issue, the company addresses it, not ignores it or blatantly denies it. A company can have an average product, but if they actually delivered some after sales service then people would appreciate it. What usually happens is that the company then gains far more customers than they may have lost due to the initial issue.
A personal example. I bought a set of Bose headsets for flying. Yep premium brand. I was having issues with them but as I wasn't flying very often at the time, it didn't worry me too much, but I was a bit p@ssed that my $1300 headset wasn't working as advertised. Anyway I mentioned this to a mate of mine who said call Bose, they will fix it, they have great customer service. So I did. Suffice to say I sent my headset to them and before mine arrived at their doorstep a new set arrived in the mail to me. Three days later they called to say they found the fault and what it was. They then sent me a discount voucher for a new set in the future, just coz their product had caused me issues. That is an example of a company going above and beyond. The amount of aviators I have told that story too, I don't know but it must be hundreds counting posts made on aviation sites. No idea how many sales they may have made, but that sort of support would put anyone's mind at ease with just about any product.
However perhaps some companies do not expect repeat business from their customers thus the lack of warranty support or indeed willingness to fix any issues found? Perhaps they just rely on a huge advertising budget to try and get their product noticed and aim there product at people new to a certain sector of an industry? Beretta Australia and ARB both have products ranging from cheap (cough!) to premium and are established in the market place. These companies realise it costs 1/10th the amount to keep a customer than attract a new one. Thus they have tried to fix issues that have arisen and indeed we have seen that here specifically with ARB. This is appreciate by all who read is and I would go so far as to say the amount of customers they have either retained or gained from these actions would be orders of magnitude more than they may have lost.
One thing I see often on boards that I frequent is when someone bags a product, there are usually two or three posters that jump on the bandwagon, but then someone usually asks if the person has gone back to the company or service provider. If the answer is no, then the original poster is then brought into question and their motives are looked into. So it works both ways. We all know there are two sides to each story but it looks bad for the company if their first official overt public response is to threaten legal action rather than work with the person, who has the grievance, to solve it.
Tjupurula,
Fully understand and agree 100% with what you have stated. I absolutely respect Brett's house here. Thus I have not slandered, named or made accusations against any company. People can draw what conclusions they like. I have no way of controlling what someone else perceives based on their own interpretation of what I have posted.
I am just stating that ANY company that resorts to legal threats over anyone's ability to relate their own or their mates experiences will never receive my support and in fact will actively receive the exact opposite from me.
If a company or service provider feels that I may be referring to them, then again, I cannot control their thoughts or their perceptions. I would have to be the though police and a a mind controller to do that! But if they do feel that way, then perhaps they know they are guilty of this. Perhaps they need to take a good hard look in the mirror, for the root cause of the problem may just be staring directly back at them...
Respectfully to all
CB
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ARB and Beretta Australia (I saw this work on the hunting board) and numerous other companies that have actually ponied up, admitted there was mistakes and then actually treat their customers as human beings and try to come to a satisfactory solution, are the ones I will continue to support and are prime examples of what I spoke about in my original post of companies doing the right thing after something was discovered and it was aired.
No company could reasonably expect to have everything go perfectly well, to satisfy every customer, every time as we are all human and have different needs, wants and expectations. Indeed products and services are delivered by humans so there will be errors. But what these companies know and what we as customers REALLY look for, is, if there is a problem, if there is an issue, the company addresses it, not ignores it or blatantly denies it. A company can have an average product, but if they actually delivered some after sales service then people would appreciate it. What usually happens is that the company then gains far more customers than they may have lost due to the initial issue.
A personal example. I bought a set of Bose headsets for flying. Yep premium brand. I was having issues with them but as I wasn't flying very often at the time, it didn't worry me too much, but I was a bit p@ssed that my $1300 headset wasn't working as advertised. Anyway I mentioned this to a mate of mine who said call Bose, they will fix it, they have great customer service. So I did. Suffice to say I sent my headset to them and before mine arrived at their doorstep a new set arrived in the mail to me. Three days later they called to say they found the fault and what it was. They then sent me a discount voucher for a new set in the future, just coz their product had caused me issues. That is an example of a company going above and beyond. The amount of aviators I have told that story too, I don't know but it must be hundreds counting posts made on aviation sites. No idea how many sales they may have made, but that sort of support would put anyone's mind at ease with just about any product.
However perhaps some companies do not expect repeat business from their customers thus the lack of warranty support or indeed willingness to fix any issues found? Perhaps they just rely on a huge advertising budget to try and get their product noticed and aim there product at people new to a certain sector of an industry? Beretta Australia and ARB both have products ranging from cheap (cough!) to premium and are established in the market place. These companies realise it costs 1/10th the amount to keep a customer than attract a new one. Thus they have tried to fix issues that have arisen and indeed we have seen that here specifically with ARB. This is appreciate by all who read is and I would go so far as to say the amount of customers they have either retained or gained from these actions would be orders of magnitude more than they may have lost.
One thing I see often on boards that I frequent is when someone bags a product, there are usually two or three posters that jump on the bandwagon, but then someone usually asks if the person has gone back to the company or service provider. If the answer is no, then the original poster is then brought into question and their motives are looked into. So it works both ways. We all know there are two sides to each story but it looks bad for the company if their first official overt public response is to threaten legal action rather than work with the person, who has the grievance, to solve it.
Tjupurula,
Fully understand and agree 100% with what you have stated. I absolutely respect Brett's house here. Thus I have not slandered, named or made accusations against any company. People can draw what conclusions they like. I have no way of controlling what someone else perceives based on their own interpretation of what I have posted.
I am just stating that ANY company that resorts to legal threats over anyone's ability to relate their own or their mates experiences will never receive my support and in fact will actively receive the exact opposite from me.
If a company or service provider feels that I may be referring to them, then again, I cannot control their thoughts or their perceptions. I would have to be the though police and a a mind controller to do that! But if they do feel that way, then perhaps they know they are guilty of this. Perhaps they need to take a good hard look in the mirror, for the root cause of the problem may just be staring directly back at them...
Respectfully to all
CB
This is the wrong place for this IMO. This is Myswag, camping and adventure at travel. I worry for this site now. Over the last Month it has changed.
This is my opinion and that is that.
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Hi Cloud Basher
Undoubtedly you are very educated, and this matter is of great concern to you, and that I have all respect for.
In what Brett said, he asked that people make direct representation to the other party regarding the issue, and not address it here.
I am probably the least politically corret person in the MySwag family (membership), but I do think this matter needs to be handled in the way that Brett has asked people to handle it. By continually discussing the issue, it is keeping it alive, by not responding, and therefore treating those who are causing this issue with contempt, would that not be a success in itself.
Maybe I am wrong, I do not know, but that is how I would handle it.
Regards
Tjupurula
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This is the wrong place for this IMO. This is Myswag, camping and adventure at travel. I worry for this site now. Over the last Month it has changed.
This is my opinion and that is that.
Discussions of things other than camping & camping related topics have been going on for a lot longer than a month. Reading between the lines I would say cloud basher's issues are a lot closer to camping than many other threads. As always, if you don't like a topic then move on & don't read it, thus leaving the discussion to those who are interested or affected. And that's my opinion and that is that. ;D
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I think ARB were advertising a social media position a couple years ago.
I know they are a member on the Pajero forum and the good thing is you can speak to them directly to help sort things out.
Over Christmas just passed, a certain company was a member here and all he did was make a big arse of himself and the company he represented.
I won't go into details, but said company needs to employ people that know how to run a business and and a better understanding of customer service. It was the lack of customer service that was my biggest problem. If they took more of an interest in customer satisfaction, they wouldn't need lawyers.
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SteveandViv,
I do agree that is the core reason this board exists.
The title of this sub forum says General Discussion, feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
I reckon this topic fits within that - just :D
Tjupurula,
Mate, as you say, that is how you would handle it and I fully respect that. This post is how I am handling it. Just a general discussion on issues that may or may not be related to something that may or may not have occurred recently or in the past. I just wanted to express my views on how I interpret certain situations and to try and educate ALL service providers, product driven companies and anyone else who may try and sell "stuff" within both the camper trailer space (thus a post on this board) and any consumer space generally, that in this day and age, people like me will not have their voice artificially silenced through threats of legal action. I do have a voice, I can have some influence -as can everyone with the Internet theses days - and that can be used to support, or otherwise, companies which choose to engage in these tactics.
As you can tell I am pretty passionate about certain things and freedom of speech is one of them. You should have seen me writing letters to PM's and Senators when Julia Gillard wanted to stop free speech within the media and any criticism of her govt. I went off like a frog in a sock. But "we" the people had a win and she was put in her place. This is Australia, not Nazi Germany or Communist Russia in the 1980's.
One of the things I love about this board is people are generally respectful and even if someone does not agree they can still agree to disagree. If I have crossed a line I am sure Brett or the other mods will let me know in no uncertain terms and will lock or delete this thread as appropriate. I know that at least Snow and Teabag (who both also know who I am so there is no hiding in internet anonymity for me) are both watching this closely to make sure no lines are crossed.
Respectfully,
CB
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Can I just add, I love this forum and Brett and the crew do a fantastic job. I don’t know how they do it, how they find the time and resources, but they really need our support and thanks. I totally trust them in how they manage this forum and what actions they take when legal issues come into play. So from me, a big thank you. :cup: Keep up the good work. Kevin
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SteveandViv,
I do agree that is the core reason this board exists.
The title of this sub forum says General Discussion, feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
I reckon this topic fits within that - just :D
Tjupurula,
Mate, as you say, that is how you would handle it and I fully respect that. This post is how I am handling it. Just a general discussion on issues that may or may not be related to something that may or may not have occurred recently or in the past. I just wanted to express my views on how I interpret certain situations and to try and educate ALL service providers, product driven companies and anyone else who may try and sell "stuff" within both the camper trailer space (thus a post on this board) and any consumer space generally, that in this day and age, people like me will not have their voice artificially silenced through threats of legal action. I do have a voice, I can have some influence -as can everyone with the Internet theses days - and that can be used to support, or otherwise, companies which choose to engage in these tactics.
As you can tell I am pretty passionate about certain things and freedom of speech is one of them. You should have seen me writing letters to PM's and Senators when Julia Gillard wanted to stop free speech within the media and any criticism of her govt. I went off like a frog in a sock. But "we" the people had a win and she was put in her place. This is Australia, not Nazi Germany or Communist Russia in the 1980's.
One of the things I love about this board is people are generally respectful and even if someone does not agree they can still agree to disagree. If I have crossed a line I am sure Brett or the other mods will let me know in no uncertain terms and will lock or delete this thread as appropriate. I know that at least Snow and Teabag (who both also know who I am so there is no hiding in internet anonymity for me) are both watching this closely to make sure no lines are crossed.
Respectfully,
CB
Yea, your right and I didn't know of the other thread started by Brett so I just thought it was bit heavy but I understand why.
Nothing to see here - moving along as NBD suggested ;D
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WOW! :police: ??? And after reading that ...
I'm so glad that my favourite CT maker has an A1, You better Believe it's a Wonderful Product, Good Stuff, Aren't they Just The Best, :cup: , CT Maker in This Very Lucky Country ... my wordy ... yes they are!
Bet I'll never get myself in trouble with them for sure!
Kit_e >:D
P.S. Didn't mention them at all did I? :angel:
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This is the wrong place for this IMO. This is Myswag, camping and adventure at travel. I worry for this site now. Over the last Month it has changed.
This is my opinion and that is that.
agree.
how many of these threads are there going to be.. since voldemort happened.
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agree.
how many of these threads are there going to be.. since voldemort happened.
Yeah, I agree too, but then we are actively involved/bantering in a thread about sport> tie in to camping being....?
So, can hardly can the non camping nature of one thread whilst being part of another that's just as off beat. Wow, that would be hypocritical of us wouldn't it?
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Be careful not to take this thread where it shouldn't folks or it will get zapped.
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=31568.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=31568.0)
Its not just myswag with this issue ....... http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8860 (http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8860)
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Its not just myswag with this issue ....... http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8860 (http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8860)
Good... the more forums this stuff appears on, the better informed people can be. I certainly wouldn't buy anything from a company that squashes open discussion about their product.
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Good... the more forums this stuff appears on, the better informed people can be. I certainly wouldn't buy anything from a company that squashes open discussion about their product.
I agree. They are only harming themselves with this approach IMHO.
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They're on Facebook now 8)
Baz.
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Its not just myswag with this issue ....... http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8860 (http://pcoa.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8860)
I know I am new to the forum & CT camping and don't come here to cause others grief moreso to learn and help where I can. Forums/websites such as this are where people come for advice and guidance and to think the truth can be hushed is saddening. (I just hope that I have made the right decision with my purchase!)
I think the best course of action is to make legal notices such as this very visible on websites and as a sticky at the top of forums. It alerts the unaware to an issue and allows them to invesigate outside the online domain or through a PM etc. Start a thread to include all threats of legal action!
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Just because they have threatened us here doesn't stop you posting on their FB page.
#pr1cks
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Funny reading there fb page and how they justified the legal letters to the forums, all of there competitors have combined are out to get them lol ,,,, ohhhhhh jeeeeeessshhhhhh
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Seems AULRO took a different approach:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html)
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Good on 'em, stick it back to them.
It is only the alleged defamatory comment they can ask to be removed not the whole thread. Make them state what is defamatory and remove those comments only.
Interesting to see what happens.
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I want to take it to them, this is pure intimidation.
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4 x 4 Earth had the same letter back in Sept 2012. They did the same as MySwag & PCoA
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Seems AULRO took a different approach:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html)
Great stuff!
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Whereas I once would have recommended said product as a good fit in certain circumstances, I would never support a company that spends money silencing its critics rather than actually addressing the issues. There are many many manufacturers and suppliers routinely mentioned in this forum who have nothing to fear in honest and open discussion of their products and service (even if some are occasionally negative). This speaks for itself.
I too will go out of my way to alert my fellow campers to the tactics referred to in this thread.
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Make them spend time and money trawling every forum and thread /posted, then have to go to the cost of getting the legals to respond to each they think is defaming them ..thats if they fit the requirements in the first instance ..... Dont think their pockets would be that deep, need #5 cheque book for that ..
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I think the best course of action is to make legal notices such as this very visible on websites and as a sticky at the top of forums. It alerts the unaware to an issue and allows them to invesigate outside the online domain or through a PM etc. Start a thread to include all threats of legal action!
Agreed. I would go so far as to change the topic to be more reflective of its contents, as to invite the curious reader and appear in searches.
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GOOD INDEPTH CHATTING
That's how I see it ;D
Mark
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I think the best course of action is to make legal notices such as this very visible on websites and as a sticky at the top of forums. It alerts the unaware to an issue and allows them to invesigate outside the online domain or through a PM etc. Start a thread to include all threats of legal action!
We have done this.
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Seems AULRO took a different approach:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html)
I like that. You need to have the time to play that game though. But it certainly returns the ball to the onerous partys court.
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Just because they have threatened us here doesn't stop you posting on their FB page.
#pr1cks
Apparently it does, as I have just been telephoned regarding a question I placed on their FB page.
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Of course, nothing is defamatory if it is in fact TRUE !!!
If posts are based on fact, its the makers problem and threats from law firms of defamation action are really just thinly disguised intimidation.
Makers might take action at the risk of the 'alleged defamation' being proved to be factual, I wonder if that's the sort of publicity they want ?
Freedom of speech in Australia ? - maybe once but being eroded in recent decades.
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Seems AULRO took a different approach:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1968739-post153.html)
Love it!
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A great read indeed.
What is the outcome for aulro?
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I suggested exactly what they did in an earlier thread I'm pleased someone is trying it, I was confident it would work as I had someone try the same on me years ago (wasn't a forum but in person)and when challenged they backed down.
If more try that line then it will cost them lots of time and money.
Chris
Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2
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Apparently it does, as I have just been telephoned regarding a question I placed on their FB page.
Do you care to elaborate on the contents of your conversation?
Or are you suppressed by a court order?
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This is amazing the approach that certain companies take. Just why make rubbish in the first place. what ever happened to having pride in your work?
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Do you care to elaborate on the contents of your conversation?
Or are you suppressed by a court order?
Apparently I am un-Australian, that is all I can say.
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I thought the "un Australian" line was reserved for Politicians & those alleged reporters on TT & ACA.
If you ask me, your as Aussie as it gets :cup: :cheers:
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Apparently I am un-Australian, that is all I can say.
Says a company who imports their material from where again?
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These letters mean nothing. The bloke wrote it up himself and is a laugh!!!!!!!!
Can't get in trouble for negative talk, only if its not true.
Seen this law threat letter before and is worth nothing.
EDIT: "That trailer company" have a bad name and other sites rate them a 2 star product.
http://www.productreview.com.au/p/gic-camper-trailers.html (http://www.productreview.com.au/p/gic-camper-trailers.html)
Don't see the big websites getting this letter because they would have smacked this low quality trailer company out of the park if they did pay any interest in their useless letter.
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I usually don't get involved with things like this - but sending lawyers letters out is pretty low.
I just posted on their Facebook site - just a curious question. Wonder what sort of reply I will get.
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you should look at hosting this site out of Australian Territory then we can discuss freely anything we want.
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I clicked on that product review link, made me laugh that under the bad review for the camper there was an ad for Great Wall...
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I'm rolling on the floor, laughing out loud (typed it the long way as this noob may not be able to understand basic life rules :) )
Go back to school and learn proper basics in business!!!!
I wonder if his lawyer offered, no win, no fee ROF :D :D I'm sure he thinks he could have won :(
Below is the BIG case they refer to....
http://www.lawchat.com.au/index.php/googles-innocent-dissemination-defence-fails-defamed-man-wins-200000-trkulja-v-google/
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I usually don't get involved with things like this - but sending lawyers letters out is pretty low.
I just posted on their Facebook site - just a curious question. Wonder what sort of reply I will get.
Doesn't look like they liked you curious question. I just "liked" the comment thread on their page about legal threat letters on forums so that their page readers gain a greater understanding for the type of antics they operate with!!
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A great read indeed.
What is the outcome for aulro?
No response from 'whats its name' as of the 2nd Sept. According to a thread in their camper section.
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I usually don't get involved with things like this - but sending lawyers letters out is pretty low.
I just posted on their Facebook site - just a curious question. Wonder what sort of reply I will get.
Looks like u stirred the pot :) :D
How pathetic is this company going around attacking people for bad comments!
All people need to report is their tantrums as we know what their CT are like.
I hear they are attacking Aussie swag as well with their photocopy letter. Read our posts, absolute crap product by all the reports I have read.
Would never buy one after all the googling and as all smart people research, can't see many people getting stung on a bad buy.
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Looks like u stirred the pot :) :D
How pathetic is this company going around attacking people for bad comments!
All people need to report is their tantrums as we know what their CT are like.
I hear they are attacking Aussie swag as well with their photocopy letter. Read our posts, absolute crap product by all the reports I have read.
Would never buy one after all the googling and as all smart people research, can't see many people getting stung on a bad buy.
There are plenty of people who will simply buy on price. And they can't be criticised for that, as long as they know what they are getting in to and s long as they don't turn around and whinge on Internet forums about not getting complete campsite quality at a crazy Clark's price. The general consensus from members on here is to buy a quality second hand Aus made CT, but they aren't always available at the time you want to buy in the model and spec you want. And I have seen some VERY ordinary used CT's for sale on the side of the road, so I can understand why someone would buy new, albeit from the unnameable manufacturer.