MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Teabag on July 02, 2013, 09:52:06 AM
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I propose and interesting question. Do you think that there still remains good value in many of the Camper Trailer manufacturers out there, noting some of the exorbinate prices they are charging? To use a Kimberley Kamper (many other brands the same and isn't isolated to KK alone) but to charge over $50k for a camper (tent on wheels) is the value still there? I bought a new KK Limited Edition which was spec'ed up nearly to a top of the range Platinum in 2005 and it was a struggle to cough up $34k then but to now ask $54k (mate bought one last year) does seem excessive? IMO, KK is an excellent camper that is very well built but is very hard to swallow the price compared to what you can buy and off road caravan for......Thoughts?
PS: This isn't a shot at any people who have spent such money in any way. Nor is it a shot at KK or any other Camper manufacturer. Its just an observation as even the cheaper brands and getting dearer...:-)
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
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Sort of agree with you TB. I would much rather a Cub, KK or CY trailer in lieu of my own imported one but the $$ is very high on these versions even for a 2nd hand price. I know that you can buy one of these brands and safely say that they don't need to be checked over or modified to go offroad unlike my import that I have spent a lot of time and $$ so far to get the same result.
At the end of the day, a CT is just a tent on wheels with a few luxuries thrown in and doesn't compare too well $$ wise to an offroad caravan that is loaded with the luxuries.
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I have to agree with u TB. I couldn't justify the cost of a new CT of the type u are talking about. Others could probably afford it though.
When u weigh up cost vs benefit, I thought Johnnos or Tambo were about par for me.
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I've just ordered a new Trackabout Safari SV Extenda for around the $30k mark and compared to the off road caravan I was looking at, it was under half the price, so I guess for me I'm happy I'm getting great quality and value for my $$. Having said that, I did look at the KK's, CC's and AS's that were much more expensive and felt that while they were of a very good build quality, they were just too spec'd up for what I needed.
We did also initially look at the cheaper end of the CT market and while there was no doubt many of these would have also done the job, I wasn't convinced for how long and whether after 10 years of constant use, that there would have been much left to trade in or sell apart from a box trailer. I guess from a depreciation value, that's not necessarily bad, but then for me it came down to quality, comfort and reliability for the next 10 years of which we expect to do 6 to 10 trips pa, ranging from weekends to a 4 week trip through the red centre.
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I'm hearing you Teabag. Still trying to justify the money I spent on my CT which was a lot cheaper than the top of the range KKs etc to which you refer. I'm still finding it difficult to get my head around paying $20K for a tent on a box trailer. Admittedly it is a mighty fine box trailer and an excellently made tent but it is still a tent on a trailer.
I think customers have become more accepting of paying a premium, whether or not that premium is still justifiable.
But having said that, I would still prefer a CT over a caravan. Nothing like sleeping under canvas in the bush/outback. Don't need a microwave or TV. I go camping to escape that rubbish ;D ;D
KB
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Tent on wheels sums it up well IMO. Would rather put that sort of money into a caravan and have some luxury.
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I want to compare apples with oranges.
a tent on essentially a box trailer verse for example
a Toyota Prado for $60k that has expansive R&D, a computer controlled transmission, wonderful technology in passenger safety (airbags, traction/stability control etc) a hi tech V6 petrol engine with all sorts of computer controlled sensors, 2 x diffs, 5 x wheels and tyres, glass, power window regulators, sound system, chassis, panels, paint, dual zone climate A/C and the list goes on if you break the vehicle down into parts. Obviously economy of scale makes some of these parts cheaper but......
Break a CT down and you have box trailer, 3 x wheels and tyres, hitch, basic suspension, diesel heater for the top end CT's, 2 or 4 burner gas cooker, canvas tent, fairly basic electronics....
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Considering the difficulties dozens are having selling used trailers I'd say the market is talking...
I could never spend $30k on a trailer that gets used dozen times a year on a outstanding year, and just sits there.
The market will justify the companies that will last and those that will disappear.
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Another way of looking at it is to add up what the pieces cost.
How much is a good trailer? (I think they are bigger than 6x4)
How much is a good tent?
How much is a good kitchen?
How much to put it all together so it works?
If you can build a KK equivalent for $30,000 then perhaps you should go in to business. I would buy one for that price. ;D
To answer the original question I think that outback campers http://www.outbackcampers.com.au/ (http://www.outbackcampers.com.au/) and bushranger campers http://www.bushrangercampers.com.au/# (http://www.bushrangercampers.com.au/#) produce older style campers at older style prices. I'm sure that there are many others out there.
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I could never spend $30k on a trailer that gets used dozen times a year on a outstanding year, and just sits there.
This quote probably sums up best for majority of campers, especially your average family with young children.
Cost verses amount of use, sort of explains why those sub 5K Chinese campers are popular. Use generally extends to Christmas, Easter and one or two long weekends in between.
We paid 16K for our Jayco and that was a MASSIVE investment for us on a luxury item that gets used 1/2 dozen times a year.
A 3-4K 2nd hand camper would have served our needs fine, but after doing a 4 month trip 7 years ago with only a basic Hilux and an old single pole Southern Cross tent we figured we're entitled to a little luxury now ;D
We plan on owning it for 10+ years so purchased something we really wanted for long term, but figure due to their popularity should be reasonably easy to sell (and expect to lose a bit of money) if the need arises.
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Cost vs amount of use just about sums it up.
I look at our CT as our "moveable" holiday home.
So far this year 63 nights under canvas in 8 trips. [ 3 nights in a CP, the rest in the bush ] for next to no cost.
How much would that have cost in accommodation alone?
It depends on what level of comfort you require, as to how much you spend/can afford.
Ours is basic as that is what we enjoy.
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Also have to agree, to spend 30-50k on a tent to me is a little excessive but at the end of the day if you have no mortgage or any other debt and top of the range kk is what you want then go for it. I have a relative who paid 140k for an inveco winnebago only to have it sit under the carport 42 +weeks of the year and there lifes constitution is ' ya only get one chance at life,get what ya want while ya still healthy enough to enjoy it'.
I think a lot of aussie manufacturers have lot the 'perceived value for money' rule in business.
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my way of thinking was along the lines of MDS........60K for a prado or 50K for a KK...doesn't work...but toyota has a worldwide market selling thousands per month whereas KK might sell one or two per month. They have to charge that sort of money to pay for overheads to keep the doors open.
If Teabag paid 34k for a 2005 and the same now is 54K.............would Teabag get his 34K back on resale........I reckon he would go close. So the real cost is the opportunity cost of having that 34K invested in shares............would be interesting to do the calculations.
I also think that the cost of renting a KK, or equivalent, if you only use it a few times a year is probably the the most economical way to look at it.
Cheers Nomad.
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We started camping with a basic soft floor offroad camper: then when we got tired of folding up all that canvas we bought a top of the range Odyssey with all the bells and whistles. We paid $43k for it 7 years ago and judging by the few that are advertised it is still worth about that (although I have no idea whether the advertisers actually get their asking price!).
Was it worth it? - well it is to us. We take it out for around 4-5 weekends a year, we take it down to Adelaide (from Brisbane) every Christmas and once every two years on average we take it out for a 6 week extended tour to remote places. Next year we plan to take it to WA via Uluru and the Great Central Highway - not a trip I would fancy in some of the cheaper campers!
The arguement about comparing the value of a Prado with a camper is fallacious: if campers were sold in sufficient quantities to justify setting up robotic production lines then maybe the prices could be similar but the campers are built individually by experienced craftsmen which is why the really good ones cost so much.
AORC campers/caravans may be expensive but they do what they are designed to do and do it superbly - and as long as the order book is filled for 6-7 months ahead there is no reason for them to lower their prices.
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I also think that the cost of renting a KK, or equivalent, if you only use it a few times a year is probably the the most economical way to look at it.
I'd agree with that. $50,000 is a lot of weekends hire... and you dont have to store it!!!
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Interesting that Echo now use CNC & robots. The Echo 6 http://www.echo4x4.com.au/echo6.php (http://www.echo4x4.com.au/echo6.php) seems a lot of camper for the money. This may be why.
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I don't know how big the camper trailer market is in Australia. But just looking at http://www.campertrailers.org/manufacturers.htm (http://www.campertrailers.org/manufacturers.htm) , there are 132 camper trailer manufacturers listed.
It's hard to see how any of them could achieve any real economies of scale. Small volume may go part of the way to explaining the high prices.
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I don't know how big the camper trailer market is in Australia. But just looking at http://www.campertrailers.org/manufacturers.htm (http://www.campertrailers.org/manufacturers.htm) , there are 132 camper trailer manufacturers listed.
It's hard to see how any of them could achieve any real economies of scale. Small volume may go part of the way to explaining the high prices.
The other thing I found when searching for my CT, is that the quality Aus CT builders are all very proud of their product and out of respect for their past, current and future customers, won't compromise on the quality or features. I daresay they could all build a cheapie, but why put their brand at risk while they have customer orders coming in.
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I don't know how big the camper trailer market is in Australia. But just looking at http://www.campertrailers.org/manufacturers.htm (http://www.campertrailers.org/manufacturers.htm) , there are 132 camper trailer manufacturers listed.
Many on that list have long gone. Last updated July 2011
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$34K... I reckon that's about $54K seven years later :)
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Many on that list have long gone. Last updated July 2011
And others had gone before that - e.g. Heaslip.
Would be interesting to know how many have come and gone in the last 10 years.
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With both cars and campers I'm always happy to have others pay the 'turn key tax'.
ALWAYS cheaper to buy a quality item second hand. Just a matter of waiting for what you want to turn up!
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Defo way over priced to my mind, don't get me wrong the top of line CT's are great bits of kit, as many have said, but I tend to follow what Lost has said, I couldn't justify that sort of cash for something that I would use 10-15 times a year, and that is pushing time off to the limits.
I sort of feel that the prices will have to come back or they wont sell long term, I earn good coin, but still wouldn't pay those prices, not for a tent on wheels essentially.
Swanny
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I'd agree with that. $50,000 is a lot of weekends hire... and you dont have to store it!!!
Granted it is probably cheaper to hire, but...........
- All trips have to be planned well in advance - no "fancy a trip out this weekend?"
- All your gear has to be packed in before the trip and unpacked afterwards - this takes time better spent on the trip
- Rental campers are basic, with none of the little mods you have made over the years to improve the camping experience
- You have to trust that the camper has been serviced regularly, and that the bearings aren't going to sieze for lack of grease
In terms of $/day of use I probably have an expensive camper, but it gets cheaper the longer I own it. If I had gone into debt to buy it I might have thought differently, but fortunately I didn't have to.
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It really comes down to what you want the trailer to do for you ?
If I was happy with what a $10,000 soft floor camper did for me, then that's what I would have bought......but instead, I bought 2 KK's ( now have an Adventure Trek AT 10 ) because they did almost everything that I wanted out of a camper..
Now........if I couldn't have afforded them, then yes, the $10,000 camper would have had to do, and although it wouldn't have been what we wanted, money obviously talks !!
Now, you'll always get someone with a $90,000 200 series who doesn't want to part with $40,000 for a camper ( why wouldn't they buy a $50,000 4wd and a $50,000 camper ?? ) and on the other side of the coin you'll get someone who's happy with a $20,000 4wd towing a $70,000 caravan !!!!!!...............so it's really what suits everyone......
But what peeves me a bit is the bloke belittling the bloke for spending up big on either a 4wd or a camper ?????
If you can't afford something, either admire the bloke for having the money ( and the nice new camper ), or find a way to do the same ( but don't feel bad about it !!
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I think some are missing my point so I will clarify. What I'm more about is physical value, not emotional value or who can or can't afford. So, is there $50k physical value in design, engineering, luxuries etc in that value? Same goes for any soft floor camper at $20k value, under the same criteria as above? I personally don't but this doesn't make it wrong with anyone who does. There are many factors that come into account when purchasing a camper that do out weight my question, that's a given......it interesting the differing views.....:-)
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$50k can earn you $2500 per year in the bank. Probably more invested in shares or similar.
Depreciation might be anything but lets say $2500 (5%) per year initially. So $5000/yr at a guess (yes I know some campers don't depreciate that fast but others are worse I'm sure).
Then there's rego and insurance - maybe $600/yr. Probably some maintenance/service costs and other ownership costs but ignore those for now.
So you're spending $5600/yr for owning the trailer. If you're a family man with 2 school age children and a salary type job giving you 20 days leave a year, and a family that doesn't want to camp for EVERY holiday, then you might expect to spend maybe 15 nights in it per year (20 if you're lucky).
So each night is costing you $373 :-)
Food for thought.
I'm considering going back to tents because of this - and I only own a $14k soft floor. But since the family prefer the trailer then I think it is worth persevering with for now.
Obviously the equation is different if you spend a lot more nights in your camper.
(Sorry if not quite the discussion the OP was after.)
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No way i could justify big $$$$$ for a CT.
We bought second hand Oz made CT for $6,000 and spent $2,000 to make it the way we wanted. (gas hotwater etc, etc)
Now, having said that, we did spent (4 years ago) $95,000 for a boat and then $14,500 for Seapen to keep it in.
Yeah, i'm still trying to work it out too.... ???
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I've been doing comparisons of the soft floor market and there are some interesting price differences between some manufacturers for what is essentially the same type and quality of camper. I am happy to pay for quality but don't want to pay more than I have to.
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But what peeves me a bit is the bloke belittling the bloke for spending up big on either a 4wd or a camper ?????
If you can't afford something, either admire the bloke for having the money ( and the nice new camper ), or find a way to do the same ( but don't feel bad about it !!
Totally agree, If you can afford it and that what you want to spend you hard earned on, why not. ;D
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Totally agree, If you can afford it and that what you want to spend you hard earned on, why not. ;D
Agree but that's not the objective nor idea of this post.
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I think some are missing my point so I will clarify. What I'm more about is physical value, not emotional value or who can or can't afford. So, is there $50k physical value in design, engineering, luxuries etc in that value? Same goes for any soft floor camper at $20k value, under the same criteria as above? I personally don't but this doesn't make it wrong with anyone who does. There are many factors that come into account when purchasing a camper that do out weight my question, that's a given......it interesting the differing views.....:-)
That was the point I was attempting to respond to, I don't believe that there is the 'physical value' in the cost of many new CTs when relatively modern ones with similar levels of design, features and luxuries can be had far cheaper second hand.
This goes for all types, hard floor / soft floor / pop tops.
Not intended to belittle those who wish to buy new off the shelf at top $, just the fact that I don't see the value in doing it that way.
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About five years ago we were looking at a quality camper. There weren't many imports around then. But a lot of manufactures were using a standard box trailer with a tent on top back then.
I discovered Arrow Campers. They were built in SA (tent and trailer), but the the I found, the trailer was designed as a camper trailer, and built like a brick out house.
The bare bones camper cost us $5999 on the road. It was Aussie canvas tent with front annex. No kitchen, tool box. Just the tent on a trailer, both top quality.
I had great plans for it, but the bills got away from us and we had to sell it.
We paid $8000 for a GIC. Sold that.
Last Christmas, we paid $7000 for a lifestyle explorer.
We would love a Jayco Hawk off road model, but we don't have the money.
Do I see the value in 50k for a camper, not really, but when I do see people with one, I wish I was one of them. I think it all comes down to what comforts people want.
My dad paid 90k for a Bushtracker caravan, it only seated two people at the dinning table and a poorly designed double bed.
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Teabag has asked a question about the 'value' in campers, not if you can justify it to yourself or others or how much money you would actually spend on a camper. I have a KK that is probably the one that he has spoken about in the first post. Here is my thoughts.
I do not believe that the camper is worth $54k, however, the camper is what I want..........and the company that makes them is charging $54k.
I also have a 200......and like the camper, I do not think they a worth the money they are charging for them, however, again, it is what I want and the company that makes them is charging that amount.......so I have to suck it up and pay it if that is what I want.
A similar line could be done with almost everything on the market.....are Nike joggers with the coin, are Bose sound systems worth the coin.........the list goes on.
I do love my single malt scotch though.............. 8)
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My thinking is along the same as others.... you can get a damn fine car for 50K. Potentially it will outlast the camper.
IMO there are too many manufacturers doing small numbers.
Let's say 10 or 20 of them got togther and had an aus factory building their trailers.... and another building tents.
They would save a heap of money and camper trailers would be cheaper.
Sure we would have a little less choice but it would be worth it.
I spent $5600 on a 2nd hand aus camper and another $2k on mods. Worth it for me. Have done numerous 2 week trips, two 4 week trips and one 10 week trip. All of that in 2.5 years. No wonder i have no leave left ;)
It has changed mine (and my kids lives).
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So, is there $50k physical value in design, engineering, luxuries etc in that value?
Going on the base question - is there $50k of physical value? No. its not that much different to $10-20k trailers. But IM a computer nerd, not an engineer/trailer builder... Im usually shocked with what somethings cost... like Trackmaster offroad vans etc....
Many things your paying for a name more than engineering etc.
I do not believe that the camper is worth $54k, however, the camper is what I want... and the company that makes them is charging $54k.
I also have a 200......and like the camper, I do not think they a worth the money they are charging for them, however, again, it is what I want and the company that makes them is charging that amount.. so I have to suck it up and pay it if that is what I want.
IMWO, cause people "suck it up" and pay up the ringhole prices for things, is why the prices stay high.
If they stopped selling, they would go "oh ****"
Look at some of the euro cars now that there is a new importer - day 1 - drop the prices $10,000. They are happier with a smaller margin.
Too bad for those with <4mth old ones... their value is nothing now! LOL
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Camper trailers don't have the luxury of fully automated production lines to be able to spit out a camper every 5 minutes.
Everything is hand built and alot are made customized to suit the buyers needs.
One of the biggest cost in any business is labour.
How many man hours does it take to build a KK start to finish? Couple of 100?? add to that overheads, sales staff, marketing, R&D, machinery, tools, materials and a profit margin to justify running your own business. It adds up!
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It is interesting, if you were to compare the cheapest components that actually make up a CT with the dearest Eg: cheapest Chinese axle with the dearest well reputed brand name item, it is very hard to justify the huge extra cost associated with a premium brand CT.
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I'm not going to knock anyone's decision to buy a $40k camper, that's up to the individual to decide if they can afford or justify their need for such a camper.
But what I have noticed is that there seems to be more second hand Aussie made campers for sale in the classified section on myswag than campers at the budget end of the scale, particularly imports.
I have one of the latter, it's not financed and apart from running costs it doesn't owe me a cent.
I don't do a great deal of camping, but I try to get out there most long weekends or I make my own long weekend. I'm in no hurry to upgrade or sell my camper as I'm getting good use out of it and my family love the lifestyle it offers us.
I often see Aussie made campers for sale for over $20k and much more that are only a couple of years old and I ask myself has the seller over-capitalised and can now not afford to go camping. The reason I ask myself this is because quite often the seller makes the point that it's not getting used.
Let's face it, having $40k sitting in the driveway doing nothing is harder to swallow than $5k doing the same thing when money is tight.
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To answer the original post ( after reading it again ).....I don't think the value of a camper has really changed in the last 10 yrs ....
Sure, prices have increased, but so has everything else, so in real terms , the prices haven't changed much !!
Now, that doesn't say they were good value 10 yrs ago either.....but only the individual can determine if a camper is good value....whether its $10,000 or $90,000 !!!!
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I know the point is not emotional but the value or real cost, but unfortunately they can't always be separated. Does an E series Merc cost $100k more than a Commodore, no but the brand has an image and a way of making you feel. If you don't feel it, you wont see the value and wonder why anyone can see it. Why does a 40 year old GT Falcon sell for more than a new one - aspirational value...
Not suggesting any of you blokes (and girls!) buy into "brand cache" for your trailers but the reality is we have all bought them for the way we feel about them. Some its value, some its quality, some its ease and no fuss and some just want to get on the road for the smallest amount of money possible. No one is right or wrong and no one has been ripped off. Some see no value in a cheap trailer, and some see no value in an expensive trailer. I don't hear anyone cross shopping a KK with a GIC, if your in the market for one you won't see the value in the other.
KK have been clever, they have built a reputation of being king of the off road and making a value statement based on it. Plenty are buying them and feeling they have great value.
So I don't think that price is always a sum of its parts but rather how it comes together and appeals to the consumer. I understand that the top end of the market has seen some considerable growth in recent years so the market isn't always saying cheaper is better.
So the real question is not what they cost, but what is the value you see in them...
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I know the point is not emotional but the value or real cost, but unfortunately they can't always be separated. Does an E series Merc cost $100k more than a Commodore, no but the brand has an image and a way of making you feel. If you don't feel it, you wont see the value and wonder why anyone can see it. Why does a 40 year old GT Falcon sell for more than a new one - aspirational value...
Not suggesting any of you blokes (and girls!) buy into "brand cache" for your trailers but the reality is we have all bought them for the way we feel about them. Some its value, some its quality, some its ease and no fuss and some just want to get on the road for the smallest amount of money possible. No one is right or wrong and no one has been ripped off. Some see no value in a cheap trailer, and some see no value in an expensive trailer. I don't hear anyone cross shopping a KK with a GIC, if your in the market for one you won't see the value in the other.
KK have been clever, they have built a reputation of being king of the off road and making a value statement based on it. Plenty are buying them and feeling they have great value.
So I don't think that price is always a sum of its parts but rather how it comes together and appeals to the consumer. I understand that the top end of the market has seen some considerable growth in recent years so the market isn't always saying cheaper is better.
So the real question is not what they cost, but what is the value you see in them...
Awesome reply, put thoughts into words that I reckon sums it up.
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IMHO, the value issue burns down to 3 things.
1. [and most important] HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE!!
2. refer point 1
3 refer points 1 & 2.
Seriously, the question of value runs through everything - how can you justify spending $120k on a Kedron van when you can have a $5k 2nd hand Viscount? As has been stated earlier "Value equals the price that people are willing to pay for a product".
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I bought my Trackabout 4x4 Delux over five years ago for $12,500, JT had reduced it from $14,500 as it was a camper that had been used at a local field day. there were a few extras thrown in that were not on a base standard model. So with the extras and reduced price it was good value. I had done my research and had decided that the Trackabout was the camp trailer of my choice.
Like my home I built nearly 30 years ago, the Trackabout was intended to be a keeper and still is a keeper. Deprecation on resale has and never will be a thought for me as I intend to have my Trackabout for many more years to come.
I chose the Trackabout for it,s build quality and for the quality of materials used in the build. Keeping in mind that this camper will be with me for many years ahead, I believe that I got value for money spent.
In summery of my statement, I believe that no matter of the cost if one keeps what one has bought , rather then having for a short time and on sells, then the value of the purchase is not questionable.
cheers duggie
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I have to agree with Teabag as I believe camping/exploring the great outdoor is becoming more or more popular. Because of this everyone wants to keep up with the ‘latest gadgets/toys’ and I believe it’s these gadgets/accessorises which are putting the prices up.
Example 20/25 years ago it was a basic trailer/tent set up. The kitchen was a gas stove you put up separately, washing up was done in a bucket. Light was in the form of a gas or kero lamps. Drinks and food were kept cold in eskies.
These days are camper trailers come with flash independent suspension, wide range of hitches, alloy mags, kitchen built into the tailgate with running water, LED lighting with batteries and solar panels, stairways which make getting into bed easier and fridges to keep our drinks cold. Because our trailers are getting heavier, we are also buying more powerful 4WD’s to tow them.
Yes it does make life easier when away, but it also means more preparation and cleaning after the trip. But my last 2 trips have been up the beach for 2 nights with just myself and my 2 kids as my wife didn’t want to come. Have to say I loved it as I only took a tent, camp stretches, single gas cooker, I fluro light and the fridge stayed in the car. It only took 10 minutes to put up and pull down camp and bugger all time to clean and pack the gear away once we got home. The simplicity really made for an enjoyable trip.
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We bought a KK recently as is the physical value worth it? I am not sure about that.
I love the fact that everything that has gone wrong on the trailer has been my fault not the manufacturers.
I love the fact that I can call my dealer at 6:30am on Boxing Day and get a problem resolved over the phone.
I love the fact that I take my bent jockey wheel back (yeah that was my fault as well) and they fixed it under warranty without asking any questions.
I love the fact that I don't have to think about where I take my KK (from a durability point of view) as I have all confidence that it will outlast my 100 Series Cruiser.
I love the fact that it is made in Australia using Australian made parts (I realise not all parts are Australian made) which supports Australian jobs and the Australian economy.
I am not mechanically minded (just ask LB) so I was delighted to pay the premium for an Australian Built camper that I can rely on. I was just lucky that at the time we purchased it we could afford such things.
Bunyip
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I bought my Trackabout 4x4 Delux over five years ago for $12,500, JT had reduced it from $14,500 as it was a camper that had been used at a local field day. there were a few extras thrown in that were not on a base standard model. So with the extras and reduced price it was good value. I had done my research and had decided that the Trackabout was the camp trailer of my choice.
Like my home I built nearly 30 years ago, the Trackabout was intended to be a keeper and still is a keeper. Deprecation on resale has and never will be a thought for me as I intend to have my Trackabout for many more years to come.
I chose the Trackabout for it,s build quality and for the quality of materials used in the build. Keeping in mind that this camper will be with me for many years ahead, I believe that I got value for money spent.
In summery of my statement, I believe that no matter of the cost if one keeps what one has bought , rather then having for a short time and on sells, then the value of the purchase is not questionable.
cheers duggie
duggie I would like to pose a question to you but you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.
Do you believe your purchase was good value for what you paid in dollar terms or good value against what else was available from the opposition.
Same question of everyone else really
Are certain CT manufacturers providing good value for dollars spent on what you receive verse their material and component costs or is the value in what you get compared to what another manufacturer provides for the same money which may or may not still be over priced.
For the record I have an $8k Aussie trailer and Chinese tent (GIC) that has followed us on some great adventures. It was a foot in the door to the CT experience and ownership. If I could afford a CUB I would be there in a flash.
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Are certain CT manufacturers providing good value for dollars spent on what you receive verse their material and component costs or is the value in what you get compared to what another manufacturer provides for the same money which may or may not still be over priced.
Great question. As I said in my earlier reply, I find it hard to get my head around the value of the dollars spent against the material and component cost (and yes I know there is also a labour cost). However I am happy with the cost of my CT when compared to other manufacturers. Just wish I was comparing with a lower general cost :D
KB
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duggie I would like to pose a question to you but you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.
Do you believe your purchase was good value for what you paid in dollar terms or good value against what else was available from the opposition.
Same question of everyone else really
Are certain CT manufacturers providing good value for dollars spent on what you receive verse their material and component costs or is the value in what you get compared to what another manufacturer provides for the same money which may or may not still be over priced.
Both, as stated I did do my research and had decided that the Trackabout was best for my needs/wants and with the reduced price and added extras it even became a better deal.
Would I buy A Trackabout now 5 years down the track, probabley not. My wants and needs have not changed but there other brands out there now that would fit the requirements that I was looking for at a greatly reduced outlay of my hard earned dollars. I am not taking anything away from the new Trackabout campers, they in my opinion are still one of the best soft floor campers on the market.
cheers duggie
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I'm interested why so many people are not snapping up the plethora of used trailers thousands sometimes 10k cheaper than new WITH all the goodies done to them.. ??? ??? is it that important to buy new ??? ??? I do realise that some people have their hand welded to their sausage with pricing expectations on used trailers but after 12 mths on the market, Im sure they will drop a thou or 5...
...I'm always happy to have others pay the 'turn key tax'.
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I am struggling to put this into words, but here goes...
Is it worth the money? Well for what it is, no. For what we want, yes.
I think it has a lot to do with what a buyer wants and whether or not there are cheaper alternatives. Also it would have a lot to do with how many times a year it will be used and whether you intend to sell it after a few years.
If you don't use it all that often then something cheaper may get you by, and if you intend to sell it after a few years then something that tends to hold it's value may be a better option.
For me there was no other alternative for what I wanted, the design of the GT is not found in any other CT as far as I am aware. Even with the top of the line GT, it still didn't have some things we wanted, so it cost us more to have those options included.
I am restricted as far as choice goes, therefore I am forced to pay what the manufacturer wants for it. I could have chosen a different design and probably a cheaper CT but then I would not have been 100% happy. The CT would more than likely not get as much use as a result and therefore would have been a waste of money.
By paying the extra, we end up with something that we are 100% happy with. It will get used on a very regular basis, because we all love camping. It is not something that I intend to sell so the resale value/depreciation is of no concern.
At the end of the day, it's not how much you pay for something, it's how much enjoyment you get from it. You only live once and you can't take your money with you.
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The only answer to the original question i can think of is if you didn't think it was good value you woudn't have bought it :cheers:
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I'm interested why so many people are not snapping up the plethora of used trailers thousands sometimes 10k cheaper than new WITH all the goodies done to them.. ??? ??? is it that important to buy new ??? ??? I do realise that some people have their hand welded to their sausage with pricing expectations on used trailers but after 12 mths on the market, Im sure they will drop a thou or 5...
Our new Trackabout CT was a long term investment and I didn't want to feel like I was buying someone else's. The new CT is ours, came about after 3 years of caravan and CT research and is being built to suit the way we camp, and as has been mentioned here a couple of times, resulted in happy wife. This last point I think is one of the most important in this thread's initial question. When I go fishing/camping with my sons, we take a quick set tent or swag, an esky with ice, a butane cooker and a fire griddle. Am looking forward to spending some quality time with my partner now that the boys have grown up and this investment was the best solution.
I've also pulled from experience in buying and owning both new and second hand boats. My current toy (boat) was a one owner 5yo sports fishing estuary boat. Best one I've owned, but I've easily spent $5k fixing up the things the original owner added or didn't look after. The new one's I've owned, rarely cost me anything extra.
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I agree with the value in buying 'pre-loved' but it's a bit difficult comparing new with second-hand.
For example, for $10K I can buy a new Cheri.. or a stunning decade-old Lexus LS400 V8 that will do 250km/h reliably for the next 300,000km...
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Is it worth the money? In my case I look at the way the Odyssey is designed and built, and the materials used such as stainless steel sheeting, heavy Australian canvas, aluminium cam-lock poles (just the fridge, solar panel and twin batteries are around $3000 retail on their own), and I can see why it should cost considerably more than a Cub or similar low-end hard floor. And as someone else said, if I hadn't thought it was worth it I wouldn't have bought it!
As I said earlier, if you look at the asking price for second-hand Odysseys they are around the same that they cost new - in my case $40,000 for a camper that cost me $43,000 in 2007 and sells new today for $53,000+. So I could sell it today and lose less than $3000 - can the owners of 6 year old $10,000 campers say the same?
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I often see Aussie made campers for sale for over $20k and much more that are only a couple of years old and I ask myself has the seller over-capitalised and can now not afford to go camping.
Perhaps the owner might have worked out what they like or do not like with their current $20k trailer and are looking to upgrade. Knowing what they like/dislike would not have been possible without first having used the $20k trailer to begin with. It is like anything I guess. Sometimes it is very difficult to know what you really want without first getting one and using it.
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Perhaps the owner might have worked out what they like or do not like with their current $20k trailer and are looking to upgrade. Knowing what they like/dislike would not have been possible without first having used the $20k trailer to begin with. It is like anything I guess. Sometimes it is very difficult to know what you really want without first getting one and using it.
That can be a very expensive lesson by the sound of it.
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Perhaps the owner might have worked out what they like or do not like with their current $20k trailer and are looking to upgrade. Knowing what they like/dislike would not have been possible without first having used the $20k trailer to begin with
Thus why i reckon your better off to start with a cheap used trailer, find what you like/dont like and go from there.... even better, hire them for a few trips first.
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I agree with the value in buying 'pre-loved' but it's a bit difficult comparing new with second-hand.
For example, for $10K I can buy a new Cheri.. or a stunning decade-old Lexus LS400 V8 that will do 250km/h reliably for the next 300,000km...
Are you saying that a 'new Cheri' is over-rated. ... >:D