MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: letsgo on May 26, 2013, 04:37:57 PM
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A question for those that currently have diff lockers in their 4wd or who have had them in a previous 4wd. If one could afford diff lockers would you recommend them? Going on a Cape trip shortly and wondering if they would be a benefit. Not looking to put them on just for this trip but are considering them anyway.
Thanks
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I have one in the patrol, front diff, the LSD in the rear is great. We do a fair amount of solo travel and I use it as a get out of jail card, only really engage it when all other things don't work. It has saved me once or twice and if all else fails a combination of it and the winch works great. Plus the blue buttons are cool >:D
GG
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Does your Colorado have traction control? If so that would probably be enough. Lots of discussion re front or rear, typically you lift a front wheel and therefore lose drive hence I prefer the front if you're only going to fit one.
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Hi D4D, No traction Control on the Colorado. LSD in the rear.
Like you GGPatrol we travel solo, have had one situation many years ago where diff locks certainly would have helped. Cool blue button's sound like a good reason ;D
Thanks for the replies so far :D
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If your LSD actually works, unlike Toyota's LSD, have a look at one of these http://www.harrop.com.au/4wd_detail.php?prod=99-ELKR11556&cat=103 (http://www.harrop.com.au/4wd_detail.php?prod=99-ELKR11556&cat=103) I dunno if they're the same diffs in the later models.
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Here is thread on it 1 type for you.
I have the E Locker
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=29164.msg454263#msg454263 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=29164.msg454263#msg454263)
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Do I need diff lockers?
Hell yes.
Possibly the best mod for any 4wd.
Suspension, tyres and front and rear diff lockers are the 3 best mods for any 4WD.
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Diff locks are great, can be loads of fun, can get you out of a bad situation, or they can just get you further into more serious trouble.
Personally, if you are doing solo drives, I would get a winch first, diff locks second.
Current and previous vehicles are locked front and rear and have still found plenty of times to use a winch.
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Already have the winch, bull bar and full recovery gear, snorkel, 2 in lift etc, diffs are about the only things left :)
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then go for it and have fun
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I have a front E locker.......Fantastic
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Unlike Goldie, I have Air lockers front and rear, well worth it, the cruiser just crawls through and up over things using a lot less right foot
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Unlike Goldie, I have Air lockers front and rear, well worth it, the cruiser just crawls through and up over things using a lot less right foot
Hi Carl,
What's wrong with the traction control? Was it not up to it?
Did you have to disable the T/C, or does the T/C simply not kick-in because you have diff locks?
Got a front E-locker in my GU.
:cheers:
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As a former Mechanic who fitted and repaired Air Lockers, I'll be fitting Eaton E Lockers to my Tug when I can (need the $ 1st).
I just hope they are more reliable than Air Lockers. Yes, I am still to establish this to my satisfaction.
The one thing which goes wrong with the Air Lockers is gas leaking past the seals in the piston which locks the side gear, this can be caused from lack of use causing the seals to "Gum up", or temperature effect on the rubber.
The 1 thing in favor of an air locker is when it is going wrong, it will still work and you just have a compressor which is over cycling and gas leaking out of the diff breathers. If you persist in trying to use the airlocker when it is leaking, there is a chance of blowing out an Axel seal as well.
Where as, an E locker, if it goes wrong, you have a tripped fuse and no diff lock.
To sum up, when an air locker goes wrong, it can get you out of the bog still, but seen as they are rearly used, and this lack of use is what kills them, I hope the Eaton e locker is better.
There were some Air Lockers fitted to the 60 series etc with dodgy copper tubing used which would fracture. But that was some time ago.
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I have a spartan auto lokka in the front of my gq patrol with lsd in the rear. Auto lokka rnt everyone's cup of tea but i wouldnt be without mine. Its awesome i just drive no stopping to switch it on or off it just works. $400 installed is near a grand cheaper then the others which can be spent on other mods.
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My vote is for lockers F & R - great if you're a bit lazy like me on letting tyres down all the time. At the first sign of slip - engage the lockers to protect the rubber ;D. I only ever 4wd in the High Country - they are great for this but I can't comment on sand driving.
Tim
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I had em in the GQ, and went everywhere without them that I went with them.
Do I think everyone needs them, fawk no. Driving skills are far more important than lockers.
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I agree Lost
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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my vote is if you can afford them than fit them......
i regularly engage the rear locker if there is any chance of wheel spin....not only looks after the drive train but also the track
i can recall a few times on tracks where there is was only one line was available, other used wheel spin and momentem to get through where i just idled up.........this was enough reason for a mate to install dual arb lockers into his 100 series
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OK, I'll play dumb. If the vehicle has traction control won't that stop a wheel spinning? Are diff locks redundant with traction control? Asking as I am about to buy a dual cab and all of them have traction control these days but I notice the Ranger/BT50 still have a lockable rear diff - obviously for a reason. Could somebody please enlighten me?
KB
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Diff locks are great, can be loads of fun, can get you out of a bad situation, or they can just get you further into more serious trouble.
I resemble this remark. ;D
My vote is for lockers F & R - great if you're a bit lazy like me on letting tyres down all the time. At the first sign of slip - engage the lockers to protect the rubber ;D. I only ever 4wd in the High Country - they are great for this but I can't comment on sand driving.
I've also been guilty of doing this. all four wheels driving does make a difference. I have also regretted it, as this can cause tyre damage.
I would say that if I was just 4wding in my Cruiser lockers would have been overkill, just something to get me in too deep. But when towing the camper through the tough stuff they definitely make a positive difference. As CRW said, being able to crawl through spots that might have required more momentum with open diffs is a benefit. I'm sure there are places where I have used the lockers when I didn't need to, but I'll never know and I'm totally cool with that too. I'd rather drive it than recover it.
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Just want to thank everyone for their replies. Have been very informative and helpful. Going to look more into the E Lockers too. You guys are awesome :D
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I have air lockers front and back on the gu patrol, can't imagine life with out them now..... Never ever get bogged and the ability to tow up some sandy hill climbs that some 4wd struggle to do with out a trailer( yeagerup for those that know Western Australia) and the confidence to go places you would not ordinarily go.
Scott
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OK, I'll play dumb. If the vehicle has traction control won't that stop a wheel spinning? Are diff locks redundant with traction control? Asking as I am about to buy a dual cab and all of them have traction control these days but I notice the Ranger/BT50 still have a lockable rear diff - obviously for a reason. Could somebody please enlighten me?
KB
I would also like to know a bit more about it. I am new to 4wding and will be towing a CT with my Dmax, so I would be interested in knowing if it's worth the money.
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I would also like to know a bit more about it. I am new to 4wding and will be towing a CT with my Dmax, so I would be interested in knowing if it's worth the money.
Got your wife (and kids) in the vehicle? It's worth the money.
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I had a rear locker in the Paj and only used it a few times. Going up monument track once I used the traction control for half and locker the other half. It certainly wasn't a hard core 4x4 track, and was doable without either. But I felt the Paj was more "confident " wih the locker engaged. I guess the Shiter the conditions the better the locker would become? Definetly look at them on a ute.
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OK, I'll play dumb. If the vehicle has traction control won't that stop a wheel spinning? Are diff locks redundant with traction control? Asking as I am about to buy a dual cab and all of them have traction control these days but I notice the Ranger/BT50 still have a lockable rear diff - obviously for a reason. Could somebody please enlighten me?
KB
Somebody might be able to exam better than me.....
With TC you need to loose traction before it cuts in (the technology is getting better) and each time the brakes are applied to the spinning wheel only one wheel can be driving...., lockers provide positive drive to a four wheel all the time although steering can be affected
Once you have a selectable locker this negates your TC once engaged
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http://www.arb.com.au/getting-started/ask-arb/air-lockers/060%20Air%20Lockers%20vs%20traction%20control%20devices.php (http://www.arb.com.au/getting-started/ask-arb/air-lockers/060%20Air%20Lockers%20vs%20traction%20control%20devices.php)
To try and describe Traction Control v Diff Locks in words is difficult compared to driving and seeing the difference.
But apart from all of that, more importantly is to know why you are getting diff locks or want them.
For the majority of people and their uses Traction Control will be enough. Diff Locks just let you play harder, which a lot of people are not into. If you like your 4wding go for it.
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For the majority of people and their uses Traction Control will be enough.
Agreed
Diff Locks just let you play harder, which a lot of people are not into.
Disagree, diff locks provide you with a heap more traction therefore you're able to drive much slower and have more control than using lots of momentum that may brake other things.
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Going on a Cape trip shortly and wondering if they would be a benefit.
Getting back to the original question, for the Cape a winch is far more useful than lockers. Since you already have the winch, save your money and buy more beer.
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I haven't driven in TC equipped cars much but have driven on lockers a lot.
IMHO, TC's biggest downfall is you have to first loose traction for it to kick in.
This can take some getting used to as most novice 4wders first instinct is to back off if they start spinning wheels when in fact what they need to do is keep spinning the wheels until the TC catches up and decides that it needs to work.
The wheel spin required seems to be at least half a turn on most TC systems (I could be wrong there), this can't be good for the "Tread Lightly" savvy people amongst us.
Lockers however don't rely on the traction being broken first. Much more control as well as less wheel spin = less track damage.
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I haven't driven in TC equipped cars much but have driven on lockers a lot.
IMHO, TC's biggest downfall is you have to first loose traction for it to kick in.
This can take some getting used to as most novice 4wders first instinct is to back off if they start spinning wheels when in fact what they need to do is keep spinning the wheels until the TC catches up and decides that it needs to work.
The wheel spin required seems to be at least half a turn on most TC systems (I could be wrong there), this can't be good for the "Tread Lightly" savvy people amongst us.
Lockers however don't rely on the traction being broken first. Much more control as well as less wheel spin = less track damage.
You'd be a very talented driver to always pick the spin before the TC picks it. In most cases in the Pajero the only reason you knew the traction control was working was the ligth would flash
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Very interesting reading.
I have an Auto Locker for the Patrol sitting at home.
Will be fitting it next month when I have the time.
Let you know how it goes.
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Thanks folks. Appreciate the explanations.
:cheers:
KB
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Getting back to the original question, for the Cape a winch is far more useful than lockers. Since you already have the winch, save your money and buy more beer.
Lots more Beer !!!!!
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I am a big fan of being twin locked! Do you need them? Probably not untill you find yourself in a very tricky situation.
I have found that much less momentum is required to get through difficult tracks especially with a camper in tow.
Having diff locks allows you to crawl over obstacles slower with less stress on driveline components therefore less chance of damage. As said earlier though when you do get stuck you will be much deeper in the s@#t than without them. I certainly recommend them to anyone who uses 4wd regularly, and when your truck just walks up pretty much anything leaving the others floundering around behind, you'll be wagging your tail like a dog at dinner time :cheers:
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You'd be a very talented driver to always pick the spin before the TC picks it. In most cases in the Pajero the only reason you knew the traction control was working was the ligth would flash
yep... fair call. I'm certain the technology has become very sensitive (and effective).
You know thinking about your comment, I've realised I've watched more traction control cars off road from outside the car so seen them spinning rather than felt it from the drivers seat.
I'm not in any way saying I'm an expert, just been around long enough to proudly say "I like the old-school, give me lockers any day".
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ok,I have just fitted a Eaton front Elocker,and a rear Eaton Detriot trutrac geared LSD,see-> http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Automotive/AutomotiveAftermarket/Differentials/index.htm (http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Automotive/AutomotiveAftermarket/Differentials/index.htm)
Im going to the cape in 4 weeks as well and hoping to do the creb track and alot more so thought these would be a good investment for this trip.
After some testing on the weekend togeather with new BF G mud-terains they work unreal (my car actuall drove up a near vertical rock wall on saturday) this is coming down that same wall,i know it doesnt look that bad in the pic,I can asure you it shouldnt have been as easy as it was. My toyota rear LSD was still fairly tight ,and would of easly done the cape without the rear trutrac but It was in the workshop so i bit the bullet and got it fitted before the toyota LSD wore out. As they do.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/dllw4/IMG_4287_zpsc18740f1.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/dllw4/media/IMG_4287_zpsc18740f1.jpg.html)
,In all honesty I dont know why people dont just engage them when the track looks extremely rough before they start doing damage to there drive train,often you see people strugle and bounce up rocky mountains and then get completely stuck ,THEN engage there locker..............why not save your diff,drive shafts,tail shafts engage before hand and just crawl up the rough stuff with ease.
oh and the reason why i went Elocker was I dont like paying for perished o-rings to be replaced every couple years or less,or replace airlines etc.. as several guys I know are with there airlock diffs.
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If you do the creb track then yes get a locker, air locker..
Otherwise get one anyway, cos they save ya tyres, vehicle and the track..
But the tele cape track, probably wont need it.. But get one anyway..
Arb air locker only..
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Great pic camperd4d :)
Well you are all pretty convincing, we have a quote from ARB and will call into Opposite Lock for a quote on E Lockers :)
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I have twin Prolockers made by TJM, the reason is that Toyota factory rear LSDs are junk and the front locker is to protect my front CVs.
Regards
Angus
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Wouldnt a front locker put more stress on the cv joints.. Especially if you floor it while turning the wheel and one suddenly gets traction..
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Wouldnt a front locker put more stress on the cv joints.. Especially if you floor it while turning the wheel and one suddenly gets traction..
no ,quite the opposite as when under load with an open diff one wheel will spin in the air and when it come back in contact with the ground you can shear the CV,drive shaft in half given enough force,its does happen quite abit.
A locker will have both wheels turning at the same speed and usually the same speed as the vehicle is traveling as well (if you doing it right),so when the wheel drops down less load will be on the drive train.
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Agreed
Disagree, diff locks provide you with a heap more traction therefore you're able to drive much slower and have more control than using lots of momentum that may brake other things.
I think you may have misinterpreted my meaning of going harder. I was referring to 4wding harder, not driving harder. In that regard the diff locks allow you do as you state, drive slower with a lot more control then using momentum. Not the best examples as I don't have many shots of my trucks playing
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8812/igp7591desktopresolutio.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4830/bb09lst23m.jpg)
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6936/bb09lst25m.jpg)
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I have a Dmax, am I better off to get front and rear or just go with the front? Also idea on the cost, I know this will vary from vehicle to vehicle, but a ballpark figure.
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Ha ha alnjan, don't think we better do that with the trailer in tow ;D
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no ,quite the opposite as when under load with an open diff one wheel will spin in the air and when it come back in contact with the ground you can shear the CV,drive shaft in half given enough force,its does happen quite abit.
A locker will have both wheels turning at the same speed and usually the same speed as the vehicle is traveling as well (if you doing it right),so when the wheel drops down less load will be on the drive train.
Thank you, for the reply
Regards
Angus.
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Hi GraemeL,
Quote we got from ARB last weekend for the Colorado, much the same as the Dmax.
Front Airlocker, ISUZU $1077
Bearings x2 $80
Labour $600
Total $1757
Rear Airlocker ISUZU $1119
Bearings x2 $80
Labour $450
Total $1649
Compressor Kit, medium air lock $290
Pump Kit $55
Airline Exhaust x2 $30
Labour to fit compressor $200
Total $575
We wouldn't get them to fit the Compressor as we already have one and hubby, Chris is going to install it himself. He could actually install the lot it's just a matter of time for him. When we get the quote for the E Lockers will also post that for you :)
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Thank you very much for providing the info, it's appreciated and I would be interested in the price for the E-lockers.
I would still like to know if it's worth the expense for front and rear or just the front or just the rear. if anyone could shed some light on that it would also be appreciated.
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OK I paid to have both mine fitted $3150.00, included bearings ,fluids,reshimming front/rear.
Front Elocker $1863.65 +gst
Rear trutrac $1000.00 +gst
That was done at opposite lock narrellan store last week.
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Might be expensive,but the amount of tyre wear it will save is huge. It will also save your crashing and banging your vehicle around, so less damage.
Lockers will pay for themselves in a couple of years of not having hem and trying to achieve the same tracks.
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OK I've had a detroit locker on the rear only and then a detroit soft locker on the front.
Changed vehicles and now have front and rear ARB airlockers.
I believe the best combination is an airlocker on the front and the Detroit full locker on the back.
Having the auto locker on the back means you dont have to react to situation the locker does this for you. Also no wire/hose etc to fail. Having a soft locker on the front is not as effective as having a full locker. Infact the Detroit soft locker gives you about 70% effective locking device. Haaving a locker you can turn off and on with the added advantage or air gives you the best of both worlds.
If you do go for locker you should consider if an axle flange upgrade is necessary.
They are good.
When I had the detroit full locker on the back and the soft (Detroit LSD) on the front on Fraser Island you could really fell the full locker working. the front was good however the LSD on the front was not nearly as effective.
Again the auto locker (Detroit) on the rear on sand mud tracks is worth every penny
Just my thoughts
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For all those interested in the price of E Lockers. First up we were told they don't make them for the Colorado, but Opposite Lock at Redcliffe said they were just out, so he tracked down the rep to confirm it.
Cost from Opposite Lock E Locker front and back same price $1648.00 each fitting $495 each, lot more expensive than the air lockers.
Also talked to a Transmission specialist and he will fit whatever lockers we buy (if we go with him) for $550 front and $385 for the back.
So looks like we will be going with the ARB Diff Lockers, only we will use the compressor we have. Chris will also install that and do a lot of the other work himself and just get someone to install the actual lockers. Have to chat with ARB a bit more about that.
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Hi letsgo, I'm getting an ARB front airlocker fitted to my GU on Friday for $1450.
I already have the ARB air compressor fitted under the bonnet complete with the correct wiring loom.
You didn't say what compressor you already had, so just be aware, a normal run of the mill compressor will still require the ARB wiring loom and a pressure cutout switch to be fitted and this would be better done before ARB fit the locker so they can test that everything works as required or there might be warranty issues.
Cheers
Craig
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For all those interested in the price of E Lockers. First up we were told they don't make them for the Colorado, but Opposite Lock at Redcliffe said they were just out, so he tracked down the rep to confirm it
Just had lunch with Eddie from OL in Mitcham and he has the one (front) E Locker fitted to his Colorado, but the other isnt available yet. (front or rear I cant remember.) But has done the wiring for both ready to go. it aint far away.
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Hi Ropes, we have a TJM compressor and hubby is aware of everything you have mention, thanks for that. He has ordered that many parts for all this, including the pressure switch. The plan is to have the compressor in before ARB do the diffs, will be chatting with them to make sure we have everything covered. The price you paid is cheaper than we were quoted, might have to have a chat with them, see what they can do :)
@ Lost, for what the OL guy told us the elockers are very new out for the Colorado.
Forgot to say that TJM don't do diff lockers for the Colorado yet.
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Hello peoples, my two bobs worth.
Getting back to the original question, for the Cape a winch is far more useful than lockers. Since you already have the winch, save your money and buy more beer.
I am in full agreement with what Symon has had to say. After doing the Myswag Cape for the past Two years a well serviced winch will get you there and back. Especially if you are traveling as a group. If on your own the extra beer you bought will come in handy waiting for somebody to help you on your way.
Im going to the cape in 4 weeks as well and hoping to do the creb track and alot more so thought these would be a good investment for this trip.
If you are thinking of doing the CREB track you may want to check this link out. http://www.cairns.qld.gov.au/?a=35289 (http://www.cairns.qld.gov.au/?a=35289) we have been getting a fair bit of rain in far north Queensland , and I doubt that the CREB track will be open by the time you come up this way.
no ,quite the opposite as when under load with an open diff one wheel will spin in the air and when it come back in contact with the ground you can shear the CV,drive shaft in half given enough force,its does happen quite abit.
A locker will have both wheels turning at the same speed and usually the same speed as the vehicle is traveling as well (if you doing it right),so when the wheel drops down less load will be on the drive train.
I have fitted a Chinese air locker in the front of my GQ wagon , (The Old Girl). I am running over 200 hp at the wheels and before fitting the locker I have never had any drive line problems with the Nissan. After fitting the diff locker, and while doing the OTL in the cape I did shear the drive shaft, outer, clean off the cv joint. Unknown to me at the time I did come into Nolan's and believing that the diff locker was working, but in fact it was not, I turned my old girl into a submarine, and required assistance in getting through the crossing. :'(
cheers duggie.
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Well we have put a deposit down on front and rear ARB diff lockers at the Brisbane show. Prices as previously quoted but we got about $500 odd worth of free gear. Including compressor, pump up kit, E-Z deflator, ARB Speedy seal puncture repair kit, inflator with gauge. Some bits we were looking to buy so the freebies saved us a few dollars.
E Lockers sounded very good but worked out nearly $1000 more, so went for the cheaper option. We did talk to ARB about previous issues they had which have been worked out and fixed :)
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You have done well then.. The rig will be a totally different offroad machine wihen the lockers are engaged.
Do u know how much those new compressors cost by themselves??
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$290 for medium compressor. Then $55 for the pump up kit which is the hose.
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I have a pro locker in the rear. I wish I went with a Detroit. Have had a few issues. Arb Compressor problems x 2 as well as Rear diff has been of twice to find an intermittent leak. It is still not resolved.
Compressor had an internal problem fixed under warranty. Left me without a compressor on the tele track last year.
Knocked a wire off another trip and left me without a locker til I trouble shot that night.
HZJ105, turbo, FMIC, Superflex arms, H151 conversion. Towing a custom Walkabout Camper.
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Well the front and rear diffs have been done at ARB and all working well. They were very impressed with the work my hubby did on installing the switches, air tank, compressor and all the other air bits, made the job pretty quick and easy for them.
(http://letgotravelaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/switches.jpg)
All the switches installed near the gear stick, easy to get to and operate.
(http://letgotravelaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/air-tank-and-bits.jpg)
4 lt air tank, gauge sensors, air bag solenoids, diff locker solenoids, manifold, filter, etc. all installed under a flip up lid, so everything is hidden and kept clean and protected in the cabin of the Ute. Compressor is installed in the section below the air tank, all easy to get to.
Very proud of the job he did. :cup:
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Bloody good job that. Congratulations!!! Hmmm, I'm Nth. Brissie way & not that neat with things like that ;D
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Hi Guys,
I had Eaton E Lockers in my last 'Cruiser and I will be getting them for this one. The reasons being:
Eaton has been around for over 100 years
Any OEM diff lockers are either electric or mechanical
Less go wrong with the E Lockers than the Air Leakers
IMO,
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I think it will always depend on what you want to do regarding using your 4wd. If you want to push it to the limits and tackle tracks that are tough and do it on a regular basis get them.
We can all spend thousands on gear for our cars but at the end of the day the more extras we add the more can go wrong. Which is Murphy's law.
Opinions will always vary but at the end of the day it depends on budgets and how you want to use your car. I have done 5 trips to the Cape and have done the OTL on every occasion. I don't have a winch or lockers. I travel on some trips with others and some times I don't.
If depends on your style of driving and how extreme you want to go. What ever works for each individual.
It also boils down to your driving experience.
Mark
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Hi All,
I have a new BT50. I don't know about other new utes, but with mine TC switches off in low range, so the diff lock comes in very handy in the High Country.
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Hi All,
I have a new BT50. I don't know about other new utes, but with mine TC switches off in low range, so the diff lock comes in very handy in the High Country.
why would they have TC turn off in low range......seems crazy
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As they have diff lock in the rear. Better than traction control in my opinion
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As they have diff lock in the rear. Better than traction control in my opinion
oh..so they have a factory diff lock? but why not leave traction control on at least you would get benefit out of it on the front wheel
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oh..so they have a factory diff lock? but why not leave traction control on at least you would get benefit out of it on the front wheel
Not sure about those cars but a fellow on the Paj forum did that, he wired up a by pass so the front TC would work while the rear did lock would work. He said it worked OK but now has a twin locked Paj and is much happier. The thing is they are quite different in how they work and the rear locker will muck up the sensors regards to traction and slipping in the TC. Yea I suppose they could make it so that rather than disengage all the TC they could only disable the rear but when did any manufacturer actually know why they even include the locker ;D.
My thoughts and what w have is that most independent front suspension cars will benefit most from a front locker due to wheel lift. Some of us have a good LSD (Patrol and Pajero) and some don't (Toyota) I'd love a rear locker as well but can't complain as to where we have put our Paj. A bg benefit of a rear locker is the ability to put it on going down hill. It really helps keep the car strait by not allowing one wheel to lock up while the other is not, a bit like ABS on steroids as there is a same same approach from both back wheels. And as many have mentioned I love the feeling of how slow I can go with the locker on rather than the run up effect I need with out, again though this is due to lifting the front wheel a lot of the time where a solid axle Toyota or Patrol may walk that line with great suspension.
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. The thing is they are quite different in how they work and the rear locker will muck up the sensors regards to traction and slipping in the TC. .
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umm, i am only familer with land rover traction control where the the lost of traction is picked up by the sensors at the wheel.....i assume all other TC system would be similar otherwise how would the computer know which brake to apply it order to send drive to the non spinning wheel
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umm, i am only familer with land rover traction control where the the lost of traction is picked up by the sensors at the wheel.....i assume all other TC system would be similar otherwise how would the computer know which brake to apply it order to send drive to the non spinning wheel
That's correct, they use the ABS sensors to measure wheel speed. Traction control is down to software, some are good and some are bad, but all are improving generation to generation. The problem is you need to be using enough momentum to cause wheel spin before the traction control kicks in and stops it. The other issue, IMO, with traction control, is that in wombat holes where wheel travel in utes is limited, the wheel spin needed will slowly increase the depth of the holes no matter how small the amount of wheel spin, whereas with a diff lock you can idle straight up.
There may be other areas where the reverse is true.
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That's correct, they use the ABS sensors to measure wheel speed. Traction control is down to software, some are good and some are bad, but all are improving generation to generation. The problem is you need to be using enough momentum to cause wheel spin before the traction control kicks in and stops it. The other issue, IMO, with traction control, is that in wombat holes where wheel travel in utes is limited, the wheel spin needed will slowly increase the depth of the holes no matter how small the amount of wheel spin, whereas with a diff lock you can idle straight up.
There may be other areas where the reverse is true.
cool thats what i thought..........not that i have ever owned a car with TC
i have twin lockers fitted and really like that i can just idle through a spot where other have to use momentum and wheel spin
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Not sure about those cars but a fellow on the Paj forum did that, he wired up a by pass so the front TC would work while the rear did lock would work. He said it worked OK but now has a twin locked Paj and is much happier. The thing is they are quite different in how they work and the rear locker will muck up the sensors regards to traction and slipping in the TC. Yea I suppose they could make it so that rather than disengage all the TC they could only disable the rear but when did any manufacturer actually know why they even include the locker ;D.
My thoughts and what w have is that most independent front suspension cars will benefit most from a front locker due to wheel lift. Some of us have a good LSD (Patrol and Pajero) and some don't (Toyota) I'd love a rear locker as well but can't complain as to where we have put our Paj. A bg benefit of a rear locker is the ability to put it on going down hill. It really helps keep the car strait by not allowing one wheel to lock up while the other is not, a bit like ABS on steroids as there is a same same approach from both back wheels. And as many have mentioned I love the feeling of how slow I can go with the locker on rather than the run up effect I need with out, again though this is due to lifting the front wheel a lot of the time where a solid axle Toyota or Patrol may walk that line with great suspension.
Nah Steve there is a few with Paj's and the TC mod for vechiles with lockers. It was all benfits, the TC is confused at all because the rear wheels don't show spin. It was Geoff&Vi who went from that to twin locked and admitted it was better but nothing wrong with 1/2 & 1/2.