MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: prodigyrf on May 03, 2013, 10:54:44 PM
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Like not screwing the corner cupboard shelf supports to the walls and leaving out a benchtop fixing bracket and a sink clip or 2-
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I share your pain.......a well designed product seemingly put together by numpties.
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I share your pain.......a well designed product seemingly put together by numpties.
How much would the price go up if Jayco hire quality trades people and paid them accordingly?
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I share your pain.......a well designed product seemingly put together by numpties.
part of buying a camper is doing a bit of research on them before, and i knew that the Jayco has to be tweeked up here and there but for what you get for the coin that is paid is well worth making a few adjustments.
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I am picking my new Flamingo in a week, if things like you have photographed are apparent then I would Expect that they fix them, annoying but still value for money!
DeVille
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I am picking my new Flamingo in a week, if things like you have photographed are apparent then I would Expect that they fix them, annoying but still value for money!
DeVille
They will fix them.. The problem is they tend to do more damage to them then when you dropped them off!!
Swannie
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While ever they can sell more than they make it would make no business sense to spend money on better quality.
Sad.
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part of buying a camper is doing a bit of research on them before, and i knew that the Jayco has to be tweeked up here and there but for what you get for the coin that is paid is well worth making a few adjustments.
I am picking my new Flamingo in a week, if things like you have photographed are apparent then I would Expect that they fix them, annoying but still value for money!
DeVille
And this is why manufacturers continue to sell this kind of crap. people like you pair still think it's good value. It isn't good value at all, it's bloody pathetic and customers should be demanding better quality not accepting Shit.
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Have to agree with Brad....we loved our jayco to a point except that the drawers, cupboards and blinds all fell apart.
Unfortuanately we wont be going back down that road.
As everyone has said who have owned a jayco....you get what you pay for, unfortunately at the time of buying, dollars make sense and then you wished that you had gone for that other make for the sake of saving a few quid that eventually bites you on the bum.
Im not completely bagging them, just, I wish they would put more effort into the finish.
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Yes I have a jayco and I'm happy with my purchase. But I travel regularly with others who have spent double and have the sme problems and some more.... Anything built to mass seems to believe that quality doesn't matter as long as they last the manufacturers warranty period.
Swannie
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Unfortunately all caravan manufacturers are turning out rubbish at the moment. At least Jayco stand by their product and fix no questions asked.
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we have a swan outback 2011 and never had a problem... touch wood....
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Yes I have a jayco and I'm happy with my purchase. But I travel regularly with others who have spent double and have the sme problems and some more.... Anything built to mass seems to believe that quality doesn't matter as long as they last the manufacturers warranty period.
Swannie
You just need to remember that under Australian consumer law you have the right to have it fixed outside the manufacturers warranty, So long as it is with a reasonable time frame. In the case of a house hold electrical goods this is about 2 years, for a camper trailer you could argue that reasonable is 5 or 6 years.
Same goes for buying an 'off road camper' if it brakes on it first trip out then you could have a case for 'fit for purpose' and could be entitled to a full refund and any reasonable costs.
When people start holding the manufacturers responsible the quality will lift.
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And this is why manufacturers continue to sell this kind of crap. people like you pair still think it's good value. It isn't good value at all, it's bloody pathetic and customers should be demanding better quality not accepting ****.
Well yes and no. A Coromal or Goldstream are far better quality and cost a substantially more. Second hand both these are around new Jayco prices for vans up to 5 or so years old.
I have bagged Jayco out for this since I bought my new Swan a few years ago but the reality is if they were to spend more on building them the cost would be proportional. I don't think its quite as black and white as I, and maybe you, think.
It would be interesting for someone with a degree in business management to make comment.
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And this is why manufacturers continue to sell this kind of crap. people like you pair still think it's good value. It isn't good value at all, it's bloody pathetic and customers should be demanding better quality not accepting ****.
Disagree with you Brad. I have just purchased the Jayco Eagle Outback and I was quite impressed with what you get for the money. Not only is it the physical $$$ value of what goes into building them but also the fact that the product has come from years of design, testing, improving, developing and so on. From all the research I have done the problem that people have seem to be very minor. Perfection can never be expected but good value for money can. If when I take delivery of my Camper in June I have to return for a few minor repairs then that is acceptable to me based on my understanding of what I have purchased at that price point. If I was buying a Rolls Royce then it might be different.
Chris and Angie
Ford Ranger Wildtrak & Jayco Outback Eagle 2013
Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au
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Well yes and no. A Coromal or Goldstream are far better quality and cost a substantially more. Second hand both these are around new Jayco prices for vans up to 5 or so years old.
I have bagged Jayco out for this since I bought my new Swan a few years ago but the reality is if they were to spend more on building them the cost would be proportional. I don't think its quite as black and white as I, and maybe you, think.
It would be interesting for someone with a degree in business management to make comment.
Hey Dazzler
Interesting that u say the other brands are better quality. I checked them out last week at the Rosehill Camping show and couldn't see how they were any better in quality. They seemed to have the same interiors, brands and materials. The exterior looked crap and looked like they hadn't been updated in 30years. I did read though that they have a bigger chassis but that was all I could find. If you know the differences would you mind pointing them out to me? I'd been keen to know? Thanks! :)
Chris and Angie
Ford Ranger Wildtrak & Jayco Outback Eagle 2013
Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au
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Buy cheap, buy twice.
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I have a masters degree in Business management so I may be somewhat qualified...
Ultimately a business is about profit... One of the ultimate measures is the return on sales % (ROS). If bosses at Jayco are happy with the ROS despite significant costs involved in warranty and rework than to improve the overall quality at the start would not be high on the agenda due to the amount of sales jayco has coming in and therefore "masks" their ROS.
But..... If I was a Senior manager at Jayco I would argue improve the quality at the start. It would
- potentially increase their sales due to more positive feedback on their quality
- the warranty and return work would be less and therefore potential savings
- they could charge a little more for their product and therefore employ "tradesman"
Again this is just my thoughts..
Swannie
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Well yes and no. A Coromal or Goldstream are far better quality and cost a substantially more. Second hand both these are around new Jayco prices for vans up to 5 or so years old.
I have bagged Jayco out for this since I bought my new Swan a few years ago but the reality is if they were to spend more on building them the cost would be proportional. I don't think its quite as black and white as I, and maybe you, think.
It would be interesting for someone with a degree in business management to make comment.
My first post in this thread said exactly that, How much would the cost go up if they hired quality tradesman and paid them accordingly.
Either way, a product that has faults and breaks is not good value EVER
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Disagree with you Brad. I have just purchased the Jayco Eagle Outback and I was quite impressed with what you get for the money. Not only is it the physical $$$ value of what goes into building them but also the fact that the product has come from years of design, testing, improving, developing and so on. From all the research I have done the problem that people have seem to be very minor. Perfection can never be expected but good value for money can. If when I take delivery of my Camper in June I have to return for a few minor repairs then that is acceptable to me based on my understanding of what I have purchased at that price point. If I was buying a Rolls Royce then it might be different.
Chris and Angie
Ford Ranger Wildtrak & Jayco Outback Eagle 2013
Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au (http://Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au)
Are you going to tow it with a Great wall?
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Hey Dazzler
Interesting that u say the other brands are better quality. I checked them out last week at the Rosehill Camping show and couldn't see how they were any better in quality. They seemed to have the same interiors, brands and materials. The exterior looked crap and looked like they hadn't been updated in 30years. I did read though that they have a bigger chassis but that was all I could find. If you know the differences would you mind pointing them out to me? I'd been keen to know? Thanks! :)
Chris and Angie
Ford Ranger Wildtrak & Jayco Outback Eagle 2013
Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au (http://Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au)
I don't think it's the materials mate but rather the man hours that have gone into putting the others together properly that makes the difference. It's the build quality that make the others better IMHO not necessarily the quality of the parts.
Jas
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Hey Dazzler
Interesting that u say the other brands are better quality. I checked them out last week at the Rosehill Camping show and couldn't see how they were any better in quality. They seemed to have the same interiors, brands and materials. The exterior looked crap and looked like they hadn't been updated in 30years. I did read though that they have a bigger chassis but that was all I could find. If you know the differences would you mind pointing them out to me? I'd been keen to know? Thanks! :)
Chris and Angie
Ford Ranger Wildtrak & Jayco Outback Eagle 2013
Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au (http://Www.chrissmithphotography.com.au)
The differences aren't so much the style but the way they are put together. Or at least intended to be put together. There was another thread last week of a similar theme and I added the pitiful failings of my GS for all to read. They have a more luxurious feel inside, IN MY OPINION I might stress, and they offer the VC coil independent suspension as an option, but otherwise I somewhat regret not going the Jayco. The after sales support for GS is rat sh*t in SE Qld. $10k price diff is a bucket load of extras, and overall the GS is not worth it, once again IMO. Can't speak for the coromal.
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And this is why manufacturers continue to sell this kind of crap. people like you pair still think it's good value. It isn't good value at all, it's bloody pathetic and customers should be demanding better quality not accepting ****.
Your funny Brad_m - next time I think something is good value for money I will drop you a PM for your opinion first. I brought mine 2nd hand 2 years ago and have stopped at many camp sites and through conversation talking about camper trailers / caravans etc around a camp fire EVERY person could not believe the value for money I got on this purchase even after I told them the things I had to fix on it. But obviously they were all incorrect.
_Thanks for the heads up on how all these people were just full of it and was only being polite. :cheers: :cheers:
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Your funny Brad_m - next time I think something is good value for money I will drop you a PM for your opinion first. I brought mine 2nd hand 2 years ago and have stopped at many camp sites and through conversation talking about camper trailers / caravans etc around a camp fire EVERY person could not believe the value for money I got on this purchase even after I told them the things I had to fix on it. But obviously they were all incorrect.
_Thanks for the heads up on how all these people were just full of it and was only being polite. :cheers: :cheers:
My version of value doesn't equate to low quality being ok if the price is lower. If you are happy to sacrifice quality for price, go for it.
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Are you going to tow it with a Great wall?
Or worse a Patrol!!!! :-* Hey Brad what brand camper do you own?................enough said! I love keyboard warriors. Save us all!
My first post in this thread said exactly that, How much would the cost go up if they hired quality tradesman and paid them accordingly.
Either way, a product that has faults and breaks is not good value EVER
I think you are kidding yourself. Seriously you name any product, any brand and someone somewhere has had a problem with it. With that mentality good value just doesn't exist ??? I am a Tradesman and Workshop Manager and I know what is required pay wise to get and keep quality tradesman. "If" as you say Jayco aren't using "quality" trades then myself having run some pretty large work forces I think they do as a mass produced product a bloody good job. I'm sure you've never made a mistake or maybe you have never been so under the pump time wise you can always create perfection. And there you have it, Perfection takes time and time costs money.
My version of value doesn't equate to low quality being ok if the price is lower. If you are happy to sacrifice quality for price, go for it.
Refer to the first part of my reply!
btw I love my Jayco and agree with the others 100% they are "good value for money". I weighed up the for and against of all the similar brands and no matter how we looked at it Jayco won out. I could have happily afforded any of them, but couldn't see the extra cost. Like almost everyone has said it would be nice if quality control was better, but generally it is only minor. As some have stated here and other posts it doesn't matter how much you spend, all brands can and do have problems. We have had not one problem that has stopped us from ever using our camper and we had an A4 page of little fix ups that where all taken care of by either myself or Jayco at service time. Most where just me being a "perfectionist" >:D
I understand where some people are coming from, but I'll happily take the price reduction for minor problems any day and as quite a few have stated they have had no problems at all and most Jayco owners that have had issues will vouch for the fantastic after sales/warranty service Jayco dealers provide. I'll take that any day.
Regards Dave
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I dont think the items in this post really account towards value for money ( which in my opinion you get in the Jayco range).
This is just poor quality comtrol which i am sure anyone at jayco would agree.
I dont think employing tradesmen is necessarily the answer, it is about getting the right person committed to the job. These jobs are all pre made and just require some basi toolwork.
I would imagine most good tradies would prefer to work on more custom fitouts or house cabinatry rather than a basic ikea flatpack fitout.
Maybe one good semi-retired tradie to just have a good look before they leave the floor would be all it takes?
If i was looking to go back into a van i would still consider a jayco as they do stand behind their product for warrenty.
Sent from my Vox using Tapatalk 2
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I am a tradesman and business owner, I've found it almost impossible to get tradesman that can live up to his claims and can produce work of a high enough standard regardless of the pay, some are significantly better then others, but NONE have been able to produce at the level my customers and my self expect. Be the way my customers expect perfection first time every time.
There is a difference between the odd mistake and intentionally turning out a substandard product, be it campers, couches, or pushbikes. The mentality of the consumer is cheap is good and that's why poor quality product get sold every day.
You had an A4 page of problems. Yet you think this is acceptable?
As for the patrol comment, I'd love to see a Greatwall in 20 years with 400 000km on it still being as reliable as my GQ is today
I will not buy a camper trailer, I will build mine and it will be the way I want it and the quality will be perfection.
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Like not screwing the corner cupboard shelf supports to the walls and leaving out a benchtop fixing bracket and a sink clip or 2-
How old is this jayco ?
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If you know the differences would you mind pointing them out to me? I'd been keen to know? Thanks! :)
This dates back to 2009 so maybe they have changed. Quality of materials were better. Finish on the internal furniture was better (the jayco was paper thin). The curtains did not fall out of their tracks. Holes drilled for wiring were not splintered. Coromal did not have GPO's laying on their side. No sealant smear on joins.
Dont get me wrong here, I bought the Swan even after viewing the lot. If I had the extra coins I would have gone better quality but couldn't justify it at the time.
I would still buy Jayco again.
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A Saturday afternoon, a few 4mtr lengths of 25mm Aluminium angle and a 100 or so S/S cs screws fixed mine...... all good now and better than anyone else would put one together. Im happy
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I will not buy a camper trailer, I will build mine and it will be the way I want it and the quality will be perfection.
:worthles:
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(http://teenthropologist.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/popcorn.jpg)
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How old is this jayco ?
It's an 03 Dove and it's in good nick and I'd say before I got my hands on it and take it places I shouldn't, it had never been off the tarmac. Managed to do the same to the corner shelf in my last 85 Dove too and it's the weight bouncing around on corrugations, etc that does it, although in this one the finger jointed cross member let go at the finger joint. You tend to load up the corner cupboard heaps and in that respect I miss the convenient hatch on the old one.
Not a big deal as I whacked some glue on it and tapped it back in line and I've screwed it to the wall and I'm also reinforcing the main shelf support members with small angle brackets ready for a big trip. It's telling me not to trust those stapled joints in future and probably not to treat it like an Outback but what the hell eh ;D
They missed the clip on the front of the sink largely because the top cupboard rails are pre-routed in regular intervals but you know how it is if one doesn't line up here or there. Not a big deal and the last 2 owners never noticed but I do so it can't stay that way.
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And this is why manufacturers continue to sell this kind of crap. people like you pair still think it's good value. It isn't good value at all, it's bloody pathetic and customers should be demanding better quality not accepting ****.
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So all Jayco products are **** are they Brad? As has been stated previously even campers with a great reputation for build quality and a price tag to match, can and often do still have there problems. I'm sure there are a lot of Jayco owners out there that would completely disagree with your comments.
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I will not buy a camper trailer, I will build mine and it will be the way I want it and the quality will be perfection.
So like I said you are commenting on a Jayco you don't and haven't owned and have no intension of owning. Nuff said!
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2.2 cents worth coming right up......................
I bought one. I love it.
Yes it has some QC issues, but I got a damn fine camper with heaps of options, heaps of comfort, a fridge to keep the beer cold, a comfy bed and lounge.
Packs up quickly wet or dry. Tows well and handles the rough stuff.
For what I paid, I don't expect Rolls Royce handcrafting or Lexus finish.
In a perfect world.....................
but then I'd be in the bush not at my keyboard.
:-* :-* :-*
Brian
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(http://teenthropologist.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/popcorn.jpg)
Hey lost, I think when the word Jayco is mentioned it turns like the electrical section >:D
Swannie
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2.2 cents worth coming right up......................
I bought one. I love it.
Yes it has some QC issues, but I got a damn fine camper with heaps of options, heaps of comfort, a fridge to keep the beer cold, a comfy bed and lounge.
Packs up quickly wet or dry. Tows well and handles the rough stuff.
For what I paid, I don't expect Rolls Royce handcrafting or Lexus finish.
In a perfect world....................
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but then I'd be in the bush not at my keyboard.
:-* :-* :-*
Brian
Well said
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2.2 cents worth coming right up......................
I bought one. I love it.
Yes it has some QC issues, but I got a damn fine camper with heaps of options, heaps of comfort, a fridge to keep the beer cold, a comfy bed and lounge.
Packs up quickly wet or dry. Tows well and handles the rough stuff.
For what I paid, I don't expect Rolls Royce handcrafting or Lexus finish.
In a perfect world.....................
but then I'd be in the bush not at my keyboard.
:-* :-* :-*
Brian
Lock the thread now! You Sir summed it up to "perfection"! ;D
Dave
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Hey lost, I think when the word Jayco is mentioned it turns like the electrical section >:D
Swannie
Or Chinese v Aussie........ >:D
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No riff raff allowed. This is strictly an intellectual discussion between higher beings in search of the Holy Grail of Jayco perfection :angel:
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Did anyone mention the word Jeep?
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It would be interesting to see on a percentage term of Jayco's sold to other brands ,how they equate if you sell 10 times as many Jayco's are you getting 10 times more issues.I figure if you sell more of a product you are going to here about more issues due to there being more on the road.
In the industry Im in we have 2 retail outlets one turns over about $100,000 a week the other about $30,000 both use the same product but the busier store gets more quality complaints than the smaller.
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It would be interesting to see on a percentage term of Jayco's sold to other brands ,how they equate if you sell 10 times as many Jayco's are you getting 10 times more issues.I figure if you sell more of a product you are going to here about more issues due to there being more on the road.
And we have a winner. It is no different to saying you will see more Falcons broken down than BMW's. Of course you will with twice as many on the road. I work a couple of sheds down from a Beemer/Mercedes mechanic and there is a constant procession of tilt trays with broken cars so yes they have issues to. Just because you pay twice as much for a product does not guarantee a perfect product when mass produced.
I am a Cabinetmaker (tradesman trained the old school way) and some of the things in my Jayco drive me nuts. If these campers where built at my workplace they would not be built the same way. They would not be built to the same price either. We are currently helping with the development of a new caravan manufacturer and I can guarantee you will be hard pressed to find fault with any aspect of the van. They are as close to custom built as you will get. Will this change if they go into full production ? - more than likely as it is the nature of the beast.
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The other point of interest to see is how many jayco owners who sell their 1st jayco and buy another as they are satisfied with the product,I have owned 2 and i am currently looking for a new 3rd one ,each time the upgrade has occurred due to changing family circumstances [size] only.Will happily buy another one as they are good value for the money and the little problems are easily sorted,just got to work out which new one to buy.
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The other point of interest to see is how many jayco owners who sell their 1st jayco and buy another as they are satisfied with the product,I have owned 2 and i am currently looking for a new 3rd one ,each time the upgrade has occurred due to changing family circumstances [size] only.Will happily buy another one as they are good value for the money and the little problems are easily sorted,just got to work out which new one to buy.
We are on our third and will look at them again when we upgrade again, a few years off though.
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Voila, Outbacked!
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Actually Jayco do a pretty good job of keeping those cupboards strong enough for most purposes yet light for towing, but if you bang them around the outback with a lot of gear on the shelves, that's their achilles heel, or at least 2 corner cupboard shelves as I've experienced to date. I've been around the other shelves and drawer support with similar screws and those particular 'Make a bracket' 20mm brackets from Bunnings.
Just a tip if you're thinking of doing the same. Some joints are easily reached but forget laying on your back in that corner cupboard thinking you'll somehow manage to hold the bracket, screw and screwdriver with only one hand. That stubby ratchet screwdriver was just the ticket when the cordless wouldn't do (and I even have a right angled drive), so I used contact adhesive to stick the brackets in place and then it was a much simpler task to use an awl to mark the holes in the relatively soft timber as an easy start for the phillips screws attached to the magnetic screwdriver tip. Most of those brackets are a hand job you'll quickly discover.
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Voila, Outbacked!
you mite get in a bit of bother with the tools used - I noticed it is not a tungsten tipped graphite shaft with the heated hand grip that should have been used to do a perfect job. And what brand screws where used ?
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you mite get in a bit of bother with the tools used - I noticed it is not a tungsten tipped graphite shaft with the heated hand grip that should have been used to do a perfect job. And what brand screws where used ?
:cheers: Well done.
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the Holy Grail of Jayco perfection :angel:
Goldstream >:D (runs and hides) ;)
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How much would the price go up if Jayco hire quality trades people and paid them accordingly?
The price would probably go down as their warranty claims would probably reduce to zero.
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The price would probably go down as their warranty claims would probably reduce to zero.
I very much doubt that. Do you honestly think that if jayco were to hire "quality tradesman" then they would have zero claims? And therefore the cost of there product would be cheaper? I cant see that happening unless these "quality tradesman" only want to be paid $20 per hour.
With the amount of vans they build there is always going to be some that aren't perfect regardless of who is doing the fit out.
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And this is why manufacturers continue to sell this kind of crap. people like you pair still think it's good value. It isn't good value at all, it's bloody pathetic and customers should be demanding better quality not accepting ****.
But they probably got a good deal
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Ignorance is bliss because the last 2 owners happily used that bench and sink for 10 years with no dramas and ditto the shelf until I stress tested it. What would a bloke do with a shed full of every tool you could imagine and nothing to gripe about or fix eh?
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Ignorance is bliss because the last 2 owners happily used that bench and sink for 10 years with no dramas and ditto the shelf until I stress tested it. What would a bloke do with a shed full of every tool you could imagine and nothing to gripe about or fix eh?
:cup: :cup: :cup:
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Ok so after the last two weeks I've changed my view on Jayco and the service from my local dealer.............watch this space. I will go into details in another thread once I've sorted everything out and we are on the road, but let me just say if you are in WA and buying a Jayco, buyer beware. Not happy Jan!
Dave