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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bunyip on April 10, 2013, 07:50:35 PM
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I am so sick of writing cover letters trying to get a job.
You have no idea if the format you use is liked by the people you are applying too, you never get any feedback on unsuccessful applications (in most cases you never even get an acknowledgement the application has been received).
I take applying for a job seriously and will spend between 30 and 60 minutes per application, researching the company (if that is given) and writing the cover letter.
Bunyip
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I hear you Bunyip, it is can be very demoralising.
I am a teacher and left my full time employment when we moved to the other side of Melbourne, thought it would be all good to find another job. Like you, lots of applications, and very little, if any feedback. The position I ended up getting 2 days before school started (I started looking in September) is only a short term contract, and I have been told ever since that it's not what you know, but who you know.....
Keep trying, is there someone you can show your applications to that works in the same area?? It sometimes helps to have a fresh pair of eyes to look over an application.
I also think there is no excuse for companies to not inform people if they are not successful.
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My new role in recruitment has been a revelation to me. A quality cover letter (for me less important) and a smoking resume are essential, but even then you're still at the mercy of the reader.
For anyone looking for a role, or not looking but open, spend time on your LinkedIn profile. And network! Endorsements are OK, but recommendations are far more valuable.
A photo! Add a photo, a good photo, to your resume and any online profile. Just get your phone or camera and take head shot after head shot until you get one that looks good. And change it regularly as this refreshes ones profile.
Key words, key words, key words.
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My new role in recruitment has been a revelation to me. A quality cover letter (for me less important) and a smoking resume are essential, but even then you're still at the mercy of the reader.
but everyone has a different idea on a "good resume"... and your right at the mercy of....
For anyone looking for a role, or not looking but open, spend time on your LinkedIn profile. And network! Endorsements are OK, but recommendations are far more valuable.
what fi you don't have linked in... or stalkerbook (which ore and more places area asking for access to), or twatter, or...
A photo! Add a photo, a good photo, to your resume and any online profile. Just get your phone or camera and take head shot after head shot until you get one that looks good. And change it regularly as this refreshes ones profile.
Why?
Key words, key words, key words.
every word in the job ad, have it in there twice at least, so when they use their software to nuke most applicants, it will pick yours to keep
One IT job I went for several years ago had 500 applicants in 3 days. Not possible to manually go thru them all
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I replied to 70 odd unsuccessfully applicants yesterday and receive at least a dozen replies back thanking me for letting them know the position had been filled.
It's a simply courtesy and took me all of half an hour thanks to copy and paste
Cheers Kim.
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what fi you don't have linked in... or stalkerbook (which ore and more places area asking for access to), or twatter, or...
Then accept that you're harder to assess than those who do and probably less likely to get a look in.
If you're a salesperson, for instance, who can't network you're a dud (IMHO).
Folks will write a resume that is tailored for a role but are almost certainly unable to tweak LinkedIn in the same manner. Peer review suggests it is (a more) honest account of the person. Plus, it shows who you know; who I might know that might know you. Ignore at your peril if you're looking for a role or thinking of moving.
We use LinkedIn a lot to headhunt too. Best in the market rather than simply best on the market.
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I replied to 70 odd unsuccessfully applicants yesterday and receive at least a dozen replies back thanking me for letting them know the position had been filled.
It's a simply courtesy and took me all of half an hour thanks to copy and paste
Cheers Kim.
I always replied to applicants when I advertised a role, firstly to let them know I received their application and when we would be getting back to them, then once we had evaluated the applicants I got back to each.
As you say, common courtesy and not that hard to do.
Bunyip
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One tip, give your package to somebody who you trust but doesn't know you professionally. Let them read it for two minutes and tell you back what are your two biggest experiences and two strongest skills. If that doesn't match what they are looking for from the ad, rewrite or reconsider.
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Great tip lostindust, I will give that a go.
Lost, I didn't think much of Linkedin until someone who specialises in headhunting through Linkedin spent an hour with me updating my profile and going through job searching and connection making.
It is actually a really powerful tool to network with and I can certainly see it being more and more important in the job search industry.
Also a lot of jobs are advertised through Linkedin and not on the main job sites.
Bunyip
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I landed a job a few weeks back by walking into a company and asked if I could see the manager in which he came out I asked if it was possible to make an appointment for him to see my resume and for an interview for a possible position that may come up in the future. He said there is nothing available at present but was more than happy to see me and made an appointment for a chat the next day.
The following day I sat down for an interview he appologised that he may be wasting my time as there was no position available in return I said he may not be wasting my time i talked him up and said that I have heard that he is well respected, and well known in the industry, would it be possible for him to send out my resume to all his contacts in the industry he smiled and said he will do his best, 2 days later he phoned me and said that he has e-mailed my resume every where and to expect a phone call soon for an interview with one of his contacts and that is where I am working now. A few days into the new job I contacted him and thanked him for what he did, he said he is happy that he knows where I work and some day he may poach me to work for him.
Another hint I have been told as well as asking for referrals is dont just have one resume have a few in different format and send them along with differently worded cover letters and apply for the same job 3 or 4 times.
good luck
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We get a minimum 60 resumes when we advertise a job opening.
That is just the first day.
AND it is only from people that are registered on our website (Super Cheap Auto)
We have all our stores linked to the same website (including BCF, Rays, Amart All Sports etc.) so job seekers registered on our website get instant notification of a job opening.
We also get 3 or more resumes per week from folks off the street...
Bill
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Hey Fishfinder,
Not sure I have the guts for such a direct approach.
Interesting approach using multiple applications. One guy suggested that to get around the automatic filtering software put some key words (e.g. qualifications you don't have) in white text in the footer. Auto scanning is smart but not that smart.
Maybe I am old fashioned but if someone applied for a job I was advertising I would ignore them.
Bunyip
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We get a minimum 60 resumes when we advertise a job opening.
That is just the first day.
That is what I am being told, several hundred applciations for each job.
Bunyip
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Hey bunyip, if you pm me I'm mor than happy to peruse your resume and give you some tips if you like.
Swannie
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PM Sent Swannie, thanks for the offer.
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I know your frustration.
I must have applied for well over 100 jobs and never heard a reply back at all. (I'm in a bit more of a smaller field of work) Hits you hard to the point of not wanting to apply any more for fear of being rejected yet again. Your confidence and whole outlook takes a bit of a beating.
I then went through a stage where I just applied for everything and anything and was just sending my CV to every one and everywhere and hoping for a hit or positive response. Still didnt have any luck.
Fortunately, wife was working and supported us during that time.
Im now seriously back on the job hunt since yesterday, and although Ive recruited in the past, I always send a generic email informing that a particular position has been filled. In the employment field though, nothing worse than people applying for a position that they are not qualified to undertake or dont have the neccessary experience or licences etc......
They all get the obligatory email informing them position has been filled etc.
Dont get knocked down by it all.
I find now, many companies are asking way above the appropriate qualification level required, because they can. I routinely get left out of shortlists or dont make the cut as I dont have the 'preferred' qualification, yet am more than qualified, experienced and capabilities to do the job excellently.
What they are asking for is just ridiculous.
My other gripe, employment agencies when I was looking for a position in the past, told me to lower my wage expectations and not to price myself out of the market.
Incidently, a couple weeks after I took a managerial position and was looking to recruit and employ, the exact same agency was telling me what I should be paying these junior people and it was way up what I expected and was around the same I had recently accepted myself.
I was told I wouldnt get staff at that salary, which was inline with which I was told I should be asking for, when I was looking myself just the fortnight before.
Unfortunatly, these agencies are a neccessary evil.
I know your pain and frustration and how much it knocks you around.
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, nothing worse than people applying for a position that they are not qualified to undertake or dont have the neccessary experience or licences etc......
I can understand why these people are doing so, they are running out of options, I too have been guilty for applying for jobs that I am not trained for but at least I gave it a shot, who knows there might be something in your resume or cover letter that catches the attention of the person that is hiring and wamo you got a job just because on your resume you said one of your hobbies is racing remote control boats, i once employed a girl because she said she was into pole dancing.
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I too was at a stage where I was just applying for everything and anything in the hope that something would stand out as the guy that should get an interview or a second look. So understand that fully.
Can't say I've ever employed someone because they are a pole dancer, I'm obviously ina different field of work.....
My wife did get told though at one job interview,that she was way over qualified, extremely experienced, and would be excellent for the job and she was perfect candidate and top of the list. Only to be told that if she lost 20kg she could start tomorrow, and No, it wasn't a pole dancers position.
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I too was at a stage where I was just applying for everything and anything in the hope that something would stand out as the guy that should get an interview or a second look. So understand that fully.
Can't say I've ever employed someone because they are a pole dancer, I'm obviously ina different field of work.....
My wife did get told though at one job interview,that she was way over qualified, extremely experienced, and would be excellent for the job and she was perfect candidate and top of the list. Only to be told that if she lost 20kg she could start tomorrow, and No, it wasn't a pole dancers position.
Absolutely un called for by them. If that was said to my wife I would be there like a shot knocking 20kg off the person that said that - and that is not from sitting behind a keyboard - but yes true story about the pole dancer and did the customers love her 2nd day on the job she came back from lunch with grass over her clothes and explained to me she was entertaining the customers.
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Just from the other side of the coin.........
I advertised for an administrator's position about 6 months ago.
I had about 170 applications in the first couple of days.
Things I noticed were:
At least half the applicants didn't want the job but wanted to say they had applied for dole benefits, my email was bombarded by people wanting acknowledgement that they had applied.
Probably 25% had none of the qualifications that were required for the job.
Probably 15% lived nowhere near the business and would be travelling 2 or 3 hours a day to get to and from work, in Sydney this may not be a problem but in Noosa........not going to happen. I don't want to employ someone to find out two weeks later they have accepted a job much closer to home.
The rest were probably appropriate but there were wide variances in the quality of resumes from those.
I interviewed 3 people and the first applicant chosen for an interview got the job.
I hope this doesn't sound rude or demoralising but that is just how the job market is at present.
Also most small business's, who don't use recruitment agencies, don't have the resources or time to personally respond to every applicant.
What stuck out for me were concise and accurate details on a resume that were verifiable easily. I am not sure about others but I call referees, so make yours the best you absolutely can.
There just some thoughts from me.
Best of luck in the hunt.
Cheers Nomad
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Thanks Guys,
I am only applying for jobs that i feel I can do, no point in wasting my time or theirs. My issue is 5 years project management expereience managing global multi-million dollar projects, and managing $10k local projects doesn't count. Sitting in a classroom for 5 days and walking away with a Prince2 certification does. Grrrrr, time to go back to the classroom I think.
I can understand individual small businesses not having the resources to respond to all applications (although I did it because I felt it important)
Swannie has provided me some valuable feedback on my resume so I will be modifying it over the next day or so.
Bunyip
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Are any of those jobs you are applying for government ones?
Most government agencies will have formal selection criteria, and there is an art to "addressing the selection criteria". If you send in a resume without the "statement against the criteria", you are wasting everyone's time.
Let us know if you want a hand with writing that.
cheers.
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Are any of those jobs you are applying for government ones?
Most government agencies will have formal selection criteria, and there is an art to "addressing the selection criteria". If you send in a resume without the "statement against the criteria", you are wasting everyone's time.
Let us know if you want a hand with writing that.
cheers.
Thanks.
I have not found anything with the Govt. as yet, or perhaps I have kept away from them due to the onorous response to selection criteria.
If I do see one I will be sure to PM you.
Bunyip
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I had an interesting interview today, great to get interview expereience.
Company seems like it would be a really good fit for me, targeting clients that I would feel comfortable dealing with.
Only problem is it would be ad-hoc contract work, basically when their internal project managers get snowed under. Would love the work but would prefer somethign a little more regular.
It would be great experience, I need more external customer facing experience as mos tof my roles have been internal.
Bunyip
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Good luck.
Take the weekend to think it over.
Remember, interviews are also for you to interview the prospective employer to see if they for for you.
Sometimes, I wish I had my wife's gut feeling. She's never yet been wrong and could have saved me a bunch of grief.
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Great tip lostindust, I will give that a go.
Lost, I didn't think much of Linkedin until someone who specialises in headhunting through Linkedin spent an hour with me updating my profile and going through job searching and connection making.
It is actually a really powerful tool to network with and I can certainly see it being more and more important in the job search industry.
Also a lot of jobs are advertised through Linkedin and not on the main job sites.
Bunyip
Hi bunyip,
yep, dont underestimate the power of linkedin, im not a fan of social networking sites like facebook but when i was made redundant feb last year linkedin became mandatory for professional networking with recruitment mobs and potential employers, its the one place to list a detailed work history, your references from your fellow workmates and employer this provides feedback to the potential employer in whether to get you in for an interview, particular important in centain areas like IT industry that i work in. Of the last 2 years it has become an extremely difficult area to gain employment in with the onsalught of outsourcing, 457 visa holders particularly from india and surrounding countries. I considered myself lucky to have gotten a contract with my current employer that led to a permanent role there coming up which i was succesful in applying for.
A photo is an absolute must, i put a photo (my 2nd one) in a suit with hair just cut as i was going for an interview that day, i got more hits since then than my first photo that wasnt as professional looking in the first place. As they say a picture tells a thousand words. ;D
What industry do you work in? Also apart from seek i kept an eye on applydirect, careerone, jobs.nsw.gov.au, snipey websites.
Lastly your resume is a living document so to speak, sometimes i had to customise certain sections of my previous roles to highlight meeting the skills that potential emploers were looking for, particularly if you were over qualified for the role, dumbed down the resume a little and highlighted those skills relevant to the role i was applying for, in the end i ended up getting into a lessor role than my previous job on slightly less salary then work my way back up to the sort of role i used to do, my skills lie in managing corporate enterprise networks and doing implementations, i ended back back in network operarions as step back but the amount of sites i now manage is 15 times the size that i used to manage and a hell of a lot more technology that i hadnt worked with before, so this has been a great learning experience for me.
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Are any of those jobs you are applying for government ones?
Most government agencies will have formal selection criteria, and there is an art to "addressing the selection criteria". If you send in a resume without the "statement against the criteria", you are wasting everyone's time.
Let us know if you want a hand with writing that.
cheers.
Spot on! Govt roles you need to use the STAR model in addressing selection criteria. (Situation, Task, Actions, Results)
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reading all the responses makes me feel fortunate ,, 11 years ago i made a phone call which lead to a drop in visit then a informal interview the next day at lunchtime ... started as a truck driver now im 2ic ... ive been thru the whole resume and interview process at times and it can suck especially if you want a career change like i did (Maintenance Fitter by trade) i always got the need experiance line , how does one get experiance if no one will employ you .... guess ive been lucky in 26 years of working ive had 2 jobs totaling 22 years
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What industry do you work in?
Hi Cyberhuey,
I also work in IT, been operations type work for the first 17 years then project management for the last two. Would like to get back into an OPerations Management roll in a large organisation, or an IT Manaer for a smaller company.
My advantage is that I am no longer dependant on any particular location, LB is happy to move out of Sydney and two of the kids are adults and one is a teenager who is also happy to move.
Bunyip
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Hi Cyberhuey,
I also work in IT, been operations type work for the first 17 years then project management for the last two. Would like to get back into an OPerations Management roll in a large organisation, or an IT Manaer for a smaller company.
My advantage is that I am no longer dependant on any particular location, LB is happy to move out of Sydney and two of the kids are adults and one is a teenager who is also happy to move.
Bunyip
Okay, project mgt in IT infrastructure or solutions (software?)
The mob i work for just put off contract project managers in the solution (sap) space as their contract was up for renewal.
Its also coming up to end of financial year as well, most projects will be winding up possibly, might pick up from july onwards when new projects come online..
its highly recommended you get Prince2 or PMBOK (for IT infrastructure project mgmt) to get in the door if you dont have either.
If wanting to get back into IT Operations Manager type roles, check out snipey.com.au, applydirect.com.au , also what about your personal contacts in the IT industry? IBM, Fujitsu, KAZ, or some of the bigger outsourcing players might be looking for people seems outsourcing in these times has been happening.
You been looking for permanent or contract roles? I struggled to land permanent roles but contract role i got which lead to permanent role i now do....
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Hi there,
Definately Infrastructure PM.
Hoping for permanent, still ahve the house and camper to pay off, LB likes the certainty
Bunyip