MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: clarkey 1967 on April 09, 2013, 10:54:48 AM
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Well Im sure this post may get a few responses.. hopefully.
A friend of mine is planning on purchasing a 4X4 and camper enabling him to spend time travelling around different areas of OZ. He had mentioned he is keen to head up to Cape York, the Kimberlies and other areas requiring confidence in his rigs.
He has indicated his budget in total is around $60K (car and camper).
I have my own rigs (07 GU patrol and a mediuam priced type camper) but having not travelled to the areas he is planning to, I dont feel I can adequately advise him of the types campers to explore. I have no doubt the patrol can get him there and back so long at its been looked after, serviced etc (post 04 models) but the camper is a tougher thing.
He has allowed $35K for the tow vehicle and $25 for the camper. I have explained to him there will be a number of other purchases he will have to make other than the rig and camper (ie fridge etc etc and any mods he needs to make to both).
So I put it to you what would you advise him to do. Any input will be appreciated
PS he lives in South Australia.
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How long is a piece of string?
I'd be spending more on the tow rig, and less on the camper. There's some top quality used trailers on the forum <$10k.
Tow Rig: go test drive as many things as possible.
How many people?
etc...
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I'd be spending more on the tow rig, and less on the camper. There's some top quality used trailers on the forum <$10k.
I agree with this.
Search around for a good second hand aussie camper that suits his needs (his needs will dictate the camper he buys) and after spending 10-15k on a good second hand unit that will more than likely come with most pof the gear he needs, then he will know what else he needs to buy and how much is left to buy a tow rig.
As for the tow rig well the list is endless but I sure he has some idea of what he wants.
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Yes you both are spot on with the second hand rig...
I guess where Im going with this is the quality of the camper to tackle these places.. especially the Cape. There will be times he is travelling on his own but I doubt, given his lack of experience, he would do the tougher trips on his own.
Personally I wouldnt be confident taking my camper anywhere too hardcore. Its stated as an off roader but I have seen true off road campers and mine aint them. I see people on here with the kimberley camper and those other cool ones... camprites.. They look built for tough terrains.
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How many people are travelling? Wife/kids/dogs?
You don't need to buy a $50,000 kewl looking trailer to go to the Cape
Have a look at some of the Cape York trip threads McGirr has done.
Theres been every brand and model of trailer... they all suffer damage, even the most expensive have bent drawbars.
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26034.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26034.0)
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26181.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26181.0)
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26266.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26266.0)
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=23412.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=23412.0)
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I would choose a prado auto for the tug. Silver, 1kz engine, around 200k's on the clock, some kings, billies, silent armour tyres and Roberts your fathers brother.
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My 2000 model cruiser cost $17,000 with 130,000 klm and a 2004 model tough country camper which cost $8,100.
They do the job for me.
Mark
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I would choose a prado auto for the tug. Silver, 1kz engine, around 200k's on the clock, some kings, billies, silent armour tyres and Roberts your fathers brother.
Do you happen to know of any for sale? ;)
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thankyou for your replies... any others welcome
PS that cruiser sounds a bargain!!
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PS the Prado looks nice too..
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I am not going to knock any brand of 4x4, nor am I going to give advertisment for one brand over another, but I will give an honest point from observation.
Last year on the cape trip there were quite a few Parado auto,s along the way with auto tranny over temp problems due to the long steep hills and the long drags of sand/dirt roads, not all of them were pulling camp trailers.
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My 2000 model cruiser cost $17,000 with 130,000 klm and a 2004 model tough country camper which cost $8,100.
They do the job for me.
That's what I was getting at. You don't NEED to spend $80,000 on a trailer + mods and car.
Marks been to the cape half a dozen times (well it seems like it from the reports that make me cry when I read em...) in recent years.
heres a good unit
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=21717.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=21717.0)
you'd get that for $20k easily.
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You can buy a Brand new Challenger for less than 40k these days if you looked around.
15k would get you an awesome off road camper and this will leave some money to spend at your local 4wd store.
Rob
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Being serious. If it were me I would buy a 100series petrol manual in white or silver. Whack some old man emus in it and a decent set of new tyres and away you go. Flog it off when you get home.
Second hand Tambo or similar from myswag. Less than 30k. Go and have some fun!
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Solid axle 100 series or a GU with a TD42. Anything less just isn't heavy duty enough to deal with towing and the punishment of off road work. ALL of the 4cyl turbo diesel duel cabs have clutch problems and are thirsty with an auto.
D40 (YD25 engine) navaras have problems with timing chains and guides, oil pump failures and turbo failures.
Ask my sister, almost $5000 in trade price parts to fix the turbo, guides and oil pump. They were just lucky her husband spotted the oil pressure light as soon as it came on and he shut the engine down.
I know of 5 sub 90 000km D40's with the same oil pump failure and that's just in Townsville in the last 12 months. There is going to be 6th on soon. I had the lower sump off one to repair a stripped thread and found the tell tale oil pump debris in the bottom. (the guy traded it on a new car)
Avoid any nissan with a ZD30 engine.
Hilux's have injector problems.
Tritons have issues with EGR depositing carbon through the intake, same for BT-50/Ranger plus on the last two the T-MAP (combined intake temp and manifold pressure sensor) is a few cm away from the EGR port and it blocks up the sensor in less then 50 000km.
BT-50/Ranger also has problems with cracking EGR coolers allowing coolant to enter the intake.
It's been mentioned already about Prado trans temp issues.
Patrols and Cruisers just keep going and don't suffer any of these issues so long as you stay away from anything with a ZD30 engine it or the V8 diesel cruiser as it has the same injector issues as the Hilux.
Before anyone says anything about Patrol 5th gear splins, they are a cheap fix compared all of the above. Plus you can get upgraded parts to stop it reoccurring. With the other problems mentioned, you can only replace broken substandard parts with new substandard parts.
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Have a look at some of the Cape York trip threads McGirr has done.
Theres been every brand and model of trailer... they all suffer damage...........
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......not all......... ;D ;D
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..........
Before anyone says anything about Patrol 5th gear splins, they are a cheap fix compared all of the above. Plus you can get upgraded parts to stop it reoccurring........
Yep, the upgraded parts really are quite cheap.......$330 for a new main shaft and 5th gear. I had mine done before the Cape trip last year. Caught it before it actually failed.......just. It was an opportunity to update the clutch as well.
Good summation Brad. Looks like you've seen the insides of a few........bit of a worry, though.......
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What are your thought on a NS Pajero with the 3.2 TD?
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Solid axle 100 series or a GU with a TD42. Anything less just isn't heavy duty enough to deal with towing and the punishment of off road work. ALL of the 4cyl turbo diesel duel cabs have clutch problems and are thirsty with an auto.
D40 (YD25 engine) navaras have problems with timing chains and guides, oil pump failures and turbo failures.
Ask my sister, almost $5000 in trade price parts to fix the turbo, guides and oil pump. They were just lucky her husband spotted the oil pressure light as soon as it came on and he shut the engine down.
I know of 5 sub 90 000km D40's with the same oil pump failure and that's just in Townsville in the last 12 months. There is going to be 6th on soon. I had the lower sump off one to repair a stripped thread and found the tell tale oil pump debris in the bottom. (the guy traded it on a new car)
Avoid any nissan with a ZD30 engine.
Hilux's have injector problems.
Tritons have issues with EGR depositing carbon through the intake, same for BT-50/Ranger plus on the last two the T-MAP (combined intake temp and manifold pressure sensor) is a few cm away from the EGR port and it blocks up the sensor in less then 50 000km.
BT-50/Ranger also has problems with cracking EGR coolers allowing coolant to enter the intake.
It's been mentioned already about Prado trans temp issues.
Patrols and Cruisers just keep going and don't suffer any of these issues so long as you stay away from anything with a ZD30 engine it or the V8 diesel cruiser as it has the same injector issues as the Hilux.
Before anyone says anything about Patrol 5th gear splins, they are a cheap fix compared all of the above. Plus you can get upgraded parts to stop it reoccurring. With the other problems mentioned, you can only replace broken substandard parts with new substandard parts.
Some brutal honesty right there from someone who has an idea by the sounds of it.
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Thank you again for your input..
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.......ALL of the 4cyl turbo diesel duel cabs have clutch problems and are thirsty with an auto.
D40 (YD25 engine) navaras have problems with timing chains and guides, oil pump failures and turbo failures.
Ask my sister, almost $5000 in trade price parts to fix the turbo, guides and oil pump. They were just lucky her husband spotted the oil pressure light as soon as it came on and he shut the engine down.
I know of 5 sub 90 000km D40's with the same oil pump failure and that's just in Townsville in the last 12 months. There is going to be 6th on soon. I had the lower sump off one to repair a stripped thread and found the tell tale oil pump debris in the bottom. (the guy traded it on a new car)
Avoid any nissan with a ZD30 engine.
Hilux's have injector problems.
Tritons have issues with EGR depositing carbon through the intake, same for BT-50/Ranger plus on the last two the T-MAP (combined intake temp and manifold pressure sensor) is a few cm away from the EGR port and it blocks up the sensor in less then 50 000km.
BT-50/Ranger also has problems with cracking EGR coolers allowing coolant to enter the intake.
It's been mentioned already about Prado trans temp issues.
Patrols and Cruisers just keep going and don't suffer any of these issues so long as you stay away from anything with a ZD30 engine it or the V8 diesel cruiser as it has the same injector issues as the Hilux.
Before anyone says anything about Patrol 5th gear splins, they are a cheap fix compared all of the above. Plus you can get upgraded parts to stop it reoccurring. With the other problems mentioned, you can only replace broken substandard parts with new substandard parts.
ALL dual cabs in this case sounds like D40 Nissans ???
D-max has been fine so far for me - no sign of clutch issues after 45k, with over half of that towing as below. That said, I am mindful of how I treat the clutch and, as you state, there are some real issues out there with puss clutches on Dual cabs. I looked into this a fair bit before settling on Isuzu 2 years ago - there was no cases in the interweb that I could see in this regard. Also, the now older model dmax I have was de-tuned in auto form in terms of Torque output. If I was to get the new model now, the new auto box and matching pwr/torque to the manual would be a no brainer.
Back on topic...
Spending $25k instead of say $15k on a camper does not get you $10,000 worth of better camper in my opinion, e.g $15k will get you a good trackabout that is only a few years old.
Re tow rig - yes you could get away with under 20k for a 10-12 yr old rig with low k's IF you can find one, but if, as in this case, the money is there, then get as new as you can.
:cheers:
Nutto
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Seeing the inside of the broken and buggered is my job.
Most of the clutch issues IMO is because these things have no power off boost and don't have a short enough 1st gear to deal with it.
People tend to rev them higher and slip the clutch to get them moving, If you treat them nice and use less revs and be happy with a slower take off speed the clutches last longer.
I also find the low range is a good option when trying to maneuver trailer etc. (if you don't have auto looking front hubs)
Even then, we still get noise issues from duel mass flywheels.
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Seeing the inside of the broken and buggered is my job...........
The worry for me is that you see so many with big $$ issues......
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The worry for me is that you see so many with big $$ issues......
The industry calls it 'Designed obsolescence'. The design of parts now days is the point that they can build cars to last to a certain age. Cars are built to last marginally beyond the warranty period. Dealer/manufacturers are only required to keep spare parts available for 5 years. After that they don't care about that model anymore and they want you to buy a new one.
As time goes on, the trend we are seeing is that these sorts of failures are getting more common and are costing more and more to fix.
In most cases these days, due to packaging, if you want to remove the engine from a IFS 4x4, you need to take the gear box out first. Then it's not uncommon to see multiple timing chains and gear drives with hours spent on the actual repair, often needing special tools that we need to fight the dealers to obtain.
If your interested, check out the 'choice of repairer' campaign headed by the AA AA
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The industry calls it 'Designed obsolescence'. The design of parts now days is the point that they can build cars to last to a certain age. Cars are built to last marginally beyond the warranty period.
Dealer/manufacturers are only required to keep spare parts available for 5 years. After that they don't care about that model anymore and they want you to buy a new one.
I thought I was the only one that realised this 15 years ago....
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Clarkey, hopefully your mate has signed up and started this thread and cruised around this site......
Seeing land rover hasn't been mention.......they must be a good rig, can't go wrong
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For the tug there are a number of good options which will depend on what is available when the buy time comes. For the camper I would recommend hiring some before to see what they like and don't like we found it a great investment.
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Clarkey, hopefully your mate has signed up and started this thread and cruised around this site......
Seeing land rover hasn't been mention.......they must be a good rig, can't go wrong
Not mentioned because it isn't worth stating the obvious. Most people trust Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi is a safe buy, but it's not really the case. Land rover, jeep etc, most people know not to. Those that don't, still buy one and spend their days in denial.
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Not mentioned because it isn't worth stating the obvious. Most people trust Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi is a safe buy, but it's not really the case. Land rover, jeep etc, most people know not to. Those that don't, still buy one and spend their days in denial.
i trust my rig........very confident it will get me where i need to go, touch wood i have never been flatbedded in the 13 years of owning landies.......
all makes have there issues, preventative maintenance is you best friend
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9 out of 10 landrovers are still on the road today..
the other one made it home
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9 out of 10 landrovers are still on the road today..
the other one made it home
Lol ... I have to tell my son that one ...
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Hilux's have injector problems.
Apparently some pre 09 hilux's where prone to this problem.... :cheers:
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I'd be looking at a 100 series turbo diesel. great tourer and a lokka in the front will overcome the ifs. next would be a gu td42t.
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Apparently some pre 09 hilux's where prone to this problem.... :cheers:
Was a problem then, still is a problem now. Unless you ask Toyota, they'll say there is no problem.
Next question you ask them is how many injectors they are STILL replacing under warranty.
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i trust my rig........very confident it will get me where i need to go, touch wood i have never been flatbedded in the 13 years of owning landies.......
all makes have there issues, preventative maintenance is you best friend
I like to get home again too. ;D
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We left Melbourne a year ago and hit the road.
We have an off road Aussie Jays Camper (big red) It Cost us $10k but we added a few options like a full Drifta kitchen and storage.
We also invested in batteries and solar.
We drive a 1995 Holden Jackaroo 3.2 V6 Petrol. We planned on taking main roads and a few easy offroad tracks and did not plan on doing the OTL or the simpson in the current vehicle.
It tows our 1.5t camper but a bit sluggish on the hills, Fuel economy was about 18ltr/100km towing.
We had a major mechanical issue when we hit Cairns which was down to the Major service and belt replacement at Holden before we left. Not the cars fault at all.
Now that we have been on the road a while we want to go to the "out there" places like the simpson and the Cape.
After towing our CT all over the west side of the cape and the terrible roads we are replacing the car as its the weakest link and just doesnt have the power to tow through sand or out of Mud. We upgraded suspension and tyres but we just cant get anymore out the engine.
We have now got a 2002 Landcruiser 105 series (petrol) with a Part time 4wd conversion so its not All time 4wd and chewing the juice.
We got it for $16k with 200,000km on the clock. The RACV inspected it and said it was in great nick and a very good car.
We now feel more confident in the ability of the car but we still will need to add a few mods like a winch, suspension upgrade, Radio and a few other bits.
All up we are in a rig of about $30k with all the bits for self sufficient camping and we also have 2 kids under 4 and a big dog.
Our fuel economy is great in the LC and its running the same figures as the Jackaroo was.
We are very surprised at how well our CT has held up and if it wasnt for the gravel rash on the paintwork it looks as new and has not busted any bits ......YET.
We are looking to get more offroad and hope to get a few others involved along the way but we would likely set up camp and do day trips without taking the CT through serious off road like the cape trips. We dont have the ability and McGirr is a very competent driver with lots of experience. We would like to tag along on future trips but build up to the hardcore stuff.
You dont NEED to spend the earth.........but you can if you want.
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We are packing up at the moment and leaving Melbourne for a "work our way around Aus" trip, basically following in the footsteps of Stookie and Lil... LOL
Our original budget for a off road van was $25000 but that changed when I went to re-register our faithful old 90 model 80 series after sitting unused in the front yard for nearly two years. too much deterioration and $$$$ to rectify so we picked up a 97 80 series petrol auto on gas for $7000 instead and swapped all the accessories from the old one to the new one. We sold the old 80 for $3000 which is paying for a new OME suspension kit on the new one so we should have no problems on the trip.
We had found a nice 18" Jayco outback for $24000 but after spending money on another car it was a bit out of our budget now and after reading on how they fall apart on corrugated roads we opted not to go for a outback Hawk either so a hard floor camper was then decided as our best option.
Thanks to this site, a thread I was reading had a link to campers for sale and I found a Supreme Getaway off road caravan advertised for $21000.... I called the owner and a deal was struck..... we now have exactly the touring setup we were originally after for only a few grand more than our original budget.....
Can't wait to pick up the van and get on the road now..... ;D
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< Clarkey, what about one of these? ;D
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Was a problem then, still is a problem now. Unless you ask Toyota, they'll say there is no problem.
Next question you ask them is how many injectors they are STILL replacing under warranty.
Same with the earlier Prado's. A pensioner couple I know just had major issues while travelling Oz and are now $10k out of pocket. They had reported the 'death rattle' at service time but Toyota said they fixed it via software to alter fuel map. A few thousand km's later the engine went bang due to overfuelling (known injector issue) and cracked a piston. Toyota just blame Aussie fuel and that the cetane levels are not high enough ???
They have done recalls in NZ but refuse to acknowledge the issue over here. Loads of threads on Pradopoint etc regarding this issue.
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We left Melbourne a year ago and hit the road.
We have an off road Aussie Jays Camper (big red) It Cost us $10k but we added a few options like a full Drifta kitchen and storage.
We also invested in batteries and solar.
We drive a 1995 Holden Jackaroo 3.2 V6 Petrol. We planned on taking main roads and a few easy offroad tracks and did not plan on doing the OTL or the simpson in the current vehicle.
It tows our 1.5t camper but a bit sluggish on the hills, Fuel economy was about 18ltr/100km towing.
We had a major mechanical issue when we hit Cairns which was down to the Major service and belt replacement at Holden before we left. Not the cars fault at all.
Now that we have been on the road a while we want to go to the "out there" places like the simpson and the Cape.
After towing our CT all over the west side of the cape and the terrible roads we are replacing the car as its the weakest link and just doesnt have the power to tow through sand or out of Mud. We upgraded suspension and tyres but we just cant get anymore out the engine.
We have now got a 2002 Landcruiser 105 series (petrol) with a Part time 4wd conversion so its not All time 4wd and chewing the juice.
We got it for $16k with 200,000km on the clock. The RACV inspected it and said it was in great nick and a very good car.
We now feel more confident in the ability of the car but we still will need to add a few mods like a winch, suspension upgrade, Radio and a few other bits.
All up we are in a rig of about $30k with all the bits for self sufficient camping and we also have 2 kids under 4 and a big dog.
Our fuel economy is great in the LC and its running the same figures as the Jackaroo was.
We are very surprised at how well our CT has held up and if it wasnt for the gravel rash on the paintwork it looks as new and has not busted any bits ......YET.
We are looking to get more offroad and hope to get a few others involved along the way but we would likely set up camp and do day trips without taking the CT through serious off road like the cape trips. We dont have the ability and McGirr is a very competent driver with lots of experience. We would like to tag along on future trips but build up to the hardcore stuff.
You dont NEED to spend the earth.........but you can if you want.
About sums it up IMO. A number of tugs, like the Jackaroo, can go a lot further than many would credit them, however there are probably some circumstances - e.g. mud - if not places that would stop most vehicles.