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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: dazzler on January 19, 2013, 05:39:22 PM

Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: dazzler on January 19, 2013, 05:39:22 PM
Hi Swaggers

As the title suggests why are there no decent 4wd camping / touring shows on commercial TV?  Given the market share that 4wd's, camping and touring has in this wonderful country why are we served up such trash as the hour of my life I wasted watching what I hoped would be a decent show.  I am not even going to bother naming it but it was such a let down. It actually got in the way of watching the real ads and I didn't know where the show ended and the ads started. 

This show, like the others out there, was just lazy.  This particular show was on the birdsville track (or the oodnadatta track maybe I lost my way amongst the ads).  Is it just me or do all these shows follow a similar theme;

1. Its in 'outback' Australia
2. There is the obligatory 'character' who is normally some sort of dero that broke down in some crap hole and never had the sense to move on.
3a What this dero has to say is supposed to keep us interested.
3. Every campsite stopped at is privately owned and most often the owner just happens by.
4. Every stop presents the opportunity to sell us another product that we couldnt do without .

Some jems from todays effort;

- Two of the hosts kids giving a rundown on what they love about their new swags.  Thank god they had been to Rays Outdoors in the previous infomercial otherwise they would not have known what to say.  (And they had three different swags from the same range - who'd have thought.)
- A Hema maps ipad app review.  No price and no mention whether it works with or without the 4g model ipad. This may be important if you actually are going to use it.
- Apparently I need a set of rear draws and a bullbar to carry my driving lights, UHF aerial and winch bar.  No mention of a tirfor or other recovery gear.  Luckily, there was a factory tour of the company that makes the bullbar and rear drawers so I know where to go.

If you are going to make a show on a particular track do you think it may help to say where it starts and ends? 
Maybe how many k's it is. 
What about whether you can make it without carrying spare fuel. 
Where to stay (and not just private places and pls say how much it is to stay)
Do you need to book places?
What would be a good itinerary?
What type of vehicle do you need?  Heavy, medium or light?
Whats the minimum recovery gear you need?  Is it a snatch strap and rated recovery points due to the high number of vehicles.  Is it a full kit?
Where the hell can you get bloody potable water on the trip?
Does anyone really care what 5yo billy has been told to say about a product.

I suppose I was spared a crap stupid cooking lesson on this episode so maybe there is an upside.

I understand supplier agreements when making these shows but surely it can be done better than this.  I know, and you would have to be pretty dopey to not know, that not one part of the show meant anything real.  Does it really transfer to after show sales? 

This particular program could have been so much better with just a little effort.  Do you think its possible to make a 4wd touring show that relies on the actual ads sold in the breaks to make it viable?  One where there are actual real life tests of products with real outcomes and recommendations?

(Apologies if this has been discussed before)


Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: McGirr on January 19, 2013, 05:43:11 PM

Bring back Russell Coight  ;D

Mark
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Paul (SA) on January 19, 2013, 05:50:36 PM
McGirr is a man after my own heart. I think it should be mandatory on every trip to salute Russell with a brief episode.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Top.ender on January 19, 2013, 06:02:32 PM
Hi Swaggers

As the title suggests why are there no decent 4wd camping / touring shows on commercial TV?  Given the market share that 4wd's, camping and touring has in this wonderful country why are we served up such trash as the hour of my life I wasted watching what I hoped would be a decent show.  I am not even going to bother naming it but it was such a let down. It actually got in the way of watching the real ads and I didn't know where the show ended and the ads started. 

This show, like the others out there, was just lazy.  This particular show was on the birdsville track (or the oodnadatta track maybe I lost my way amongst the ads).  Is it just me or do all these shows follow a similar theme;

1. Its in 'outback' Australia
2. There is the obligatory 'character' who is normally some sort of dero that broke down in some crap hole and never had the sense to move on.
3a What this dero has to say is supposed to keep us interested.
3. Every campsite stopped at is privately owned and most often the owner just happens by.
4. Every stop presents the opportunity to sell us another product that we couldnt do without .

Some jems from todays effort;

- Two of the hosts kids giving a rundown on what they love about their new swags.  Thank god they had been to Rays Outdoors in the previous infomercial otherwise they would not have known what to say.  (And they had three different swags from the same range - who'd have thought.)
- A Hema maps ipad app review.  No price and no mention whether it works with or without the 4g model ipad. This may be important if you actually are going to use it.
- Apparently I need a set of rear draws and a bullbar to carry my driving lights, UHF aerial and winch bar.  No mention of a tirfor or other recovery gear.  Luckily, there was a factory tour of the company that makes the bullbar and rear drawers so I know where to go.

If you are going to make a show on a particular track do you think it may help to say where it starts and ends? 
Maybe how many k's it is. 
What about whether you can make it without carrying spare fuel. 
Where to stay (and not just private places and pls say how much it is to stay)
Do you need to book places?
What would be a good itinerary?
What type of vehicle do you need?  Heavy, medium or light?
Whats the minimum recovery gear you need?  Is it a snatch strap and rated recovery points due to the high number of vehicles.  Is it a full kit?
Where the hell can you get bloody potable water on the trip?
Does anyone really care what 5yo billy has been told to say about a product.

I suppose I was spared a crap stupid cooking lesson on this episode so maybe there is an upside.

I understand supplier agreements when making these shows but surely it can be done better than this.  I know, and you would have to be pretty dopey to not know, that not one part of the show meant anything real.  Does it really transfer to after show sales? 

This particular program could have been so much better with just a little effort.  Do you think its possible to make a 4wd touring show that relies on the actual ads sold in the breaks to make it viable?  One where there are actual real life tests of products with real outcomes and recommendations?

(Apologies if this has been discussed before)
Spot on Dazzler... :cup: :cup: :cup:
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Mrs smith on January 19, 2013, 06:10:26 PM
These types of shows are just an infomercial shot on location, I find them a real insult
 to intelligence. Bring back shows like the Leyland Brothers or find another Macolm
Douglas or Jack Absalom, guy's that took you somewhere while you learned something and
you usually got a pretty good look at there gear and how they used it failures and all.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: xcvator on January 19, 2013, 06:18:59 PM
Yeah, I voiced my opinion here http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=25033.msg399716#msg399716 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=25033.msg399716#msg399716) several months ago  >:( >:( . Doesn't matter whether it's camping,4wd or fishing there is about 5 minutes of actual show and the rest is an advert of some sort.  >:( it really gives me the shytes  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: cruisindub on January 19, 2013, 06:50:16 PM
It sounds like the crap I started watching this afternoon about 3 hours after it viewed over your way I think..

I got fed up with it and turned it off and went to Woolies to go shopping .......

Wasn't overly I impressed.

Would rather watch WWE thats on an hour later...........
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: 02-SR5 on January 19, 2013, 07:03:10 PM
You cannot beat the original Leyland Brothers.

They never needed ARB this or CUB camper and all the gear from Rays Outdoors.

Didn't they get around with a cast iron pot, 8mm camera, a canvas tarp, Swiss Army knife all strapped to an orange combi van.

This is one of the big problems these days. Every time you pick up a magazine or log onto a forum, every body says you need the ARB catalog bolted to your Toyota and have every camping accessory available before you leave your driveway.

Oh the simple days.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Paul (SA) on January 19, 2013, 07:11:05 PM
I did laugh at an episode of Escape with ET where he was proudly showing off the latest Coleman furniture.

The chairs looked so fragile and unsteady with him sitting in them, I thought they were going to collapse!

I am sure on the inside he was thinking what is this crap I am promoting....
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Jenko67 on January 19, 2013, 07:14:33 PM
Bring back Russell Coight  ;D

Mark

Mate, you stole my idea....lol.... I have mentioned this before.... ;D

ANy shows these days are one big ad for a commercial 4wd company... loses my interest.. not genuine..
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: nbd73 on January 19, 2013, 07:21:50 PM
Harry Butler in the Wild was another "real" travel/outdoors show that had real content.  Agree with above comment RE ads paying for the show.  The actual show should not be an ad, otherwise it belongs in the 2am time slot with all the other home shopping shows.
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: GS on January 19, 2013, 07:26:59 PM
Passion, enthusiasm and content must not equal large profit margins.

Gone are the days when people produced television shows for the love if it. :-(
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: GS on January 19, 2013, 07:29:41 PM
Advertising used to fund television, television is now a tool to get people to watch ads.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: gclan on January 19, 2013, 07:38:11 PM
Harry Butler in the Wild was another "real" travel/outdoors show that had real content.  Agree with above comment RE ads paying for the show.  The actual show should not be an ad, otherwise it belongs in the 2am time slot with all the other home shopping shows.

I wanted to be like Harry Butler when I was a kid (only the girl version of him obviously).

Have to agree with sticking some of them in the 2am time slot as well (sorry to all the shift workers), though stupidly I keep watching them hoping to actually see some of the countryside that they claim to be travelling through.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: jeb1900 on January 19, 2013, 08:14:14 PM
There are also very few good magazines.  It's a real struggle to find decent content to enjoy.
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: JCAT on January 19, 2013, 08:34:19 PM
I don't have pay tv. Has anyone seen Carlisles new show, does it differ from the majority of these tv infomercials.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Deseng on January 19, 2013, 08:36:22 PM
I'm going insane here - two posts into this thread and each has disappeared into the ether!  If this one doesn't work I'm cancelling my 4WD Action subscription.

What we are seeing is the new world order.  Without getting into the argument that the advertorialinfomercial pays for the program, this is the new world in which we live.  The new breed of adventurers need all these essentials to survive in the rugged Australian bush - OK some are actually a wise move so I won't argue with that.

I saw "Wheels Across the Wilderness" (Leyland Bros - mmm, is that their real name or is it an advertising ploy since they drove Landrovers!! Food for thought.) as a primary school excursion to the pictures.  At least 6 of us got the bug at that time.  Despite lifes challenges most of us still have the bug in one form or another and most of us generally hanker for the simpler times.

I certainly did not need most of the current "essentials" in my 1950 Series 1 (#5371 in the lineage) which are now required on the expedition from Brisvegas to the Gold Coast.

Jack Absolom did more true adventure in that Sigma than many do today in their fully kitted fourbies.  And what about our the ABC program about our indigenous friends.  Their escapades in getting around the bush in old holdens was pure genius!

Our responsibility is to tell the younger ones (i.e. the future adventurers) about the "true" adventurers and to get them to seek out and enjoy the old footage (yes, it is still around in one form or another).  Talk to them about the Leyland's, the Beadell's, the Douglas's, the "hairy battlers's", the bush tucker man, the Absolom's, the Coight's (well, at least his uniquiness).  My young daughter knows about these people and appreciates their contribution to our family bush travel lifestyle.  She also understands the 'new world order' and rarely wants for any of the modern "essentials" for our trips - although she did indicate today, after the program in question, a new swag would be nice for her birthday!

Sorry - rant over - gotta go and fit the new latte machine to the fourby (apparently I can't survive in the bush without it accordingly to "hasbeen" in the latest video).

Deseng


Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: gramps on January 19, 2013, 08:38:49 PM
Very true Dazzler.  You get far more relevant information reading through a couple of the online forums than those shows will ever provide.  The added bonus is you can ask questions and get unbiased feedback .... well, except from the Engel and Nissan owners of course  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 19, 2013, 08:54:48 PM
These shows aren't aimed at the majority of existing 4wders/tourers they ate aimed at those who may own a 4wd or aspire to own one. The idea is to introduce them the idea, showcase locations and products.

The Leyland Brother shows happened in a different time when cost to show a program on tv were considerably cheaper. Timeslots are expensive and need to be paid for, by bringing advertiser/sponsors with you when pitching a show makes it that much more inviting to the tv channel. I can only imagine the gamble Pat made to successfully launch his series and five years later it's still going strong so he must have hit his market


A true adventure show would be awesome in theory but I'm not sure it would be viable to our tv channels. There are adventure style shows that pop up everyone and then on Nat Geo and Discovery and Fuel channels on Fixtel. There was a good surfers journal one a few years back and also occassionaly one offs


I'd suggest sending feedback to Pat and Carlisle, it can't hurt. Maybe watch Simon Christies 4wdtv and Your 4x4.

Or better yet grab a camera, start filming your trips and maybe get an online blog going and build from there.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: McGirr on January 19, 2013, 09:09:56 PM

Classic

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6WSA4NqpZYc (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6WSA4NqpZYc)

Mark




Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: nbd73 on January 19, 2013, 09:11:35 PM
I think one of the reasons for making the "content" of shows into a form of advertising is the growing prevalence of PVR's in people's homes. We record all shows excepting live sport and watch later. If you have a close look at Pat's show for eg the producers are very clever how they blend the proper ad break material into the show's promos (usually straight after the official ad). You hit play thinking you have missed all the ads only to be bombarded with more propaganda. It's a cynical view that has a ring of truth to it...
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: heath74 on January 19, 2013, 09:17:48 PM
Bring back Alby Mangels for mine.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Black Diamond on January 19, 2013, 09:18:53 PM
Bring back Russell Coight  ;D

Mark
Yes!! I agree bloody legend :cup:
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Jenko67 on January 20, 2013, 06:20:07 AM
Bring back Alby Mangels for mine.

And the women he had on the show.... ;D
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: nbd73 on January 20, 2013, 06:54:31 AM
Yes, despite the fact that many parts of the show were fake or staged it would still be preferable to more modern offerings.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: GeoffA on January 20, 2013, 07:06:08 AM
Bring back Russell Coight  ;D

Mark

Anyone remember the episode where R.C. was in Cooktown??

Russell wondered how Jimmy Cook would have felt in 1770, as he sailed into a town that bore his name.......... :cup:
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: DannyG on January 20, 2013, 07:06:51 AM
I generally enjoy most 4wd or travel type shows that are about Australia especially if they are 4wd touring related but I understand what people are saying in regards to being sponsored etc and no doubt they have to be sponsored.

But what gets me is the inability to really bring the viewer to the environment they are filming the show/segment in. We sat down as a family and watched a well known 4wd show recently and the host was doing the show on an area I have been to but my wife and kids haven't, but they are about to, so we thought it was a great opportunity to get an insight into what they are in for. Well the show didn't even come close to portraying the reality of what it was going to be like. The host even had kids with him so it was a perfect opportunity to spend time showing families what it takes to do this particular area, but instead too much time was spent show casing all the sponsors :(

So sponsors are a necessary evil but when it is at the cost of the content of the show then it is a shame.

Someone mentioned writing to the shows host and giving feed back on what we would have preferred to see, so maybe thats an approach to take. It would be nice to see the sponsors in the ad's during the show and not using up air time of the actual show by having the host cover them instead of covering the real content.

I have photographed and videoed myself while doing trips and it is not difficult to bring the reality of whats happening to the video so you can show family and friends at a later date. Along with some commentry on the things that people need to know if they were contemplating the trip themselves is ideal for a 4wd touring type show.

I think I might start my own 'Dannys outback adventures' youtube channel, and my signature clothing could be my undies pulled up my bum? :D

Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: GeoffA on January 20, 2013, 07:09:12 AM
.............I think I might start my own 'Dannys outback adventures' youtube channel, and my signature clothing could be my undies pulled up my bum? :D

......and a flanny shirt...... ;D ;D

Good post, BTW.......
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: DannyG on January 20, 2013, 07:12:17 AM
......and a flanny shirt...... ;D ;D

Good post, BTW.......

yeh the flanny is a given.....I could see it now......driving an old 4.2 Patrol, towing a home built camper.....representing 'real' aussies.......flanny on, undies up the bum........ I might put it too some tv executives? lol
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: GeoffA on January 20, 2013, 07:37:37 AM
yeh the flanny is a given.....I could see it now......driving an old 4.2 Patrol, towing a home built camper.....representing 'real' aussies.......flanny on, undies up the bum........ I might put it too some tv executives? lol

Your camper looks a long way from home built......... :cup:
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: xcvator on January 20, 2013, 07:49:30 AM

So sponsors are a necessary evil but when it is at the cost of the content of the show then it is a shame.

Someone mentioned writing to the shows host and giving feed back on what we would have preferred to see, so maybe thats an approach to take. It would be nice to see the sponsors in the ad's during the show and not using up air time of the actual show by having the host cover them instead of covering the real content.
I did just that last night in a pm to Carlysle Rodgers but I'm not expecting to get a reply back  :police:
 



Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Pirate_Pete on January 20, 2013, 08:04:42 AM

I think I might start my own 'Dannys outback adventures' youtube channel,

It's not hard to do now days with a few GoPros strapped to the kids & the car :) :)
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 20, 2013, 08:17:47 AM
I did just that last night in a pm to Carlysle Rodgers but I'm not expecting to get a reply back  :police:

Why are you expecting no response?
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 20, 2013, 08:20:12 AM
A group of guys in the US ate doing a web series at the moment

www.expeditionoverland.com

Professionally done and I'm enjoying the 6 episodes so far
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: DannyG on January 20, 2013, 08:36:29 AM
A group of guys in the US ate doing a web series at the moment

www.expeditionoverland.com (http://www.expeditionoverland.com)

Professionally done and I'm enjoying the 6 episodes so far


I couldnt find the link to the actual series?
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 20, 2013, 08:49:14 AM
That would be because I gave the wrong link

http://www.xoverland.com/
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: gutters on January 20, 2013, 10:31:38 AM
A group of guys in the US ate doing a web series at the moment

http://www.xoverland.com/videos.html (http://www.xoverland.com/videos.html)

Professionally done and I'm enjoying the 6 episodes so far


Thanks for the link, I've just watched the first episode and I really enjoyed it... Wish we had an Aussie equivalent.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: McGirr on January 20, 2013, 12:12:32 PM

Not sure if many remember this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw)

I rang Keith Adams many years ago and had a good chat to him about the car he took. I ordered the DVD and book all signed by him.

Wow the adventure without all the mod cons. Could today's 4wd hosts and i suppose many of us do what he did back then.

A great DVD to watch. He passed away a few years ago.

Mark
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Carlisle Rogers on January 20, 2013, 03:16:21 PM
xcvator,

This is mostly in response to your message, but I'm going to throw it out there for everyone.

The good old days are the good old days because, and this is an important distinction, they don't exist any more.
If someone showed up to the offices of any network television station with a tape looking anything like Malcolm Douglas' material, they would be at best ignored, but more than likely laughed out of the building.
I love his stuff, and have watched plenty, but that doesn't mean it would stand up in today's crowded market. If I travelled to most of the places he travelled with his trusty dog, and dared take a dog with me, we would both be kicked out without warning by some zealous ranger.
The world has changed.
Without commercial sponsors, there can be no production. Your favourite movies all have Coca-Cola, cigarettes, clothing and all of the ephemera of daily life carefully placed into the hands of the actors - this is part of how they fund the form, which you still have to pay to see. 
Pat Callinan has managed to get 4WDing onto network television for the first time in decades, albeit on a Saturday afternoon. The boys from All4Adventure, despite their down home credibility, same slot.
When 4WD Touring Australia gets a free-to-air slot, I doubt they will be placing us on Tuesday nights at 8pm as we will be soon on Foxtel again.
No, prime time has no place for us, and it is not our fault. Between Masterchef, Botox with the Stars, Australian Idol and Survivor, there is little room for a real traveller spending time in the Australian bush just having a good time and sharing it.
And if you aren't on prime time, then the soap powder companies aren't going to pay the network a fortune to sell dish detergent to the viewers. So guys like Pat, Jase and myself, not to mention Simon Christie and anyone else out there trying to do what they love for a living, must fund our existence with sponsorships.
The straight ad model may have worked in 1982. The pyramid scheme of the housing market worked then, too. But that doesn't mean they work now.
The shows that I and my colleagues make represent an alternative to the drivel of prime-time television. The problem isn't that we are commercially hungry - it is that 90% of viewers would rather watch My Kitchen Rules.
If 90% of the TV viewing public wanted to watch a 4WD travel show, then we wouldn't ever need to mention what gear we use - we wouldn't have to.
Just like in the old days.

Carlisle
 

Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: DannyG on January 20, 2013, 03:24:56 PM
xcvator,

This is mostly in response to your message, but I'm going to throw it out there for everyone.

The good old days are the good old days because, and this is an important distinction, they don't exist any more.
If someone showed up to the offices of any network television station with a tape looking anything like Malcolm Douglas' material, they would be at best ignored, but more than likely laughed out of the building.
I love his stuff, and have watched plenty, but that doesn't mean it would stand up in today's crowded market. If I travelled to most of the places he travelled with his trusty dog, and dared take a dog with me, we would both be kicked out without warning by some zealous ranger.
The world has changed.
Without commercial sponsors, there can be no production. Your favourite movies all have Coca-Cola, cigarettes, clothing and all of the ephemera of daily life carefully placed into the hands of the actors - this is part of how they fund the form, which you still have to pay to see. 
Pat Callinan has managed to get 4WDing onto network television for the first time in decades, albeit on a Saturday afternoon. The boys from All4Adventure, despite their down home credibility, same slot.
When 4WD Touring Australia gets a free-to-air slot, I doubt they will be placing us on Tuesday nights at 8pm as we will be soon on Foxtel again.
No, prime time has no place for us, and it is not our fault. Between Masterchef, Botox with the Stars, Australian Idol and Survivor, there is little room for a real traveller spending time in the Australian bush just having a good time and sharing it.
And if you aren't on prime time, then the soap powder companies aren't going to pay the network a fortune to sell dish detergent to the viewers. So guys like Pat, Jase and myself, not to mention Simon Christie and anyone else out there trying to do what they love for a living, must fund our existence with sponsorships.
The straight ad model may have worked in 1982. The pyramid scheme of the housing market worked then, too. But that doesn't mean they work now.
The shows that I and my colleagues make represent an alternative to the drivel of prime-time television. The problem isn't that we are commercially hungry - it is that 90% of viewers would rather watch My Kitchen Rules.
If 90% of the TV viewing public wanted to watch a 4WD travel show, then we wouldn't ever need to mention what gear we use - we wouldn't have to.
Just like in the old days.

Carlisle
 



Pretty straight forward as it is reply, thanks for that.

We must be deprived down here in Tassie, all I have seen is Pats show, mind you I dont have pay TV so thats why I am probably missing out??

Ill pull my undies out of my bum now :)
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: GS on January 20, 2013, 05:55:39 PM
Not sure if many remember this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw)

I rang Keith Adams many years ago and had a good chat to him about the car he took. I ordered the DVD and book all signed by him.

Wow the adventure without all the mod cons. Could today's 4wd hosts and i suppose many of us do what he did back then.

A great DVD to watch. He passed away a few years ago.

Mark


I remember seeing this at the Chermside Dawn as a kid in about 1975.

Thanks for the reminder, just ordered the DVD
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: dazzler on January 20, 2013, 06:38:33 PM
Thanks for the reply Carlisle.  Gotta respect someone in the business who sticks their head up!   :cup:

Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: xcvator on January 20, 2013, 07:39:23 PM
Thanks for putting up your reply Carlisle,

xcvator,

This is mostly in response to your message, but I'm going to throw it out there for everyone.

The good old days are the good old days because, and this is an important distinction, they don't exist any more.
If someone showed up to the offices of any network television station with a tape looking anything like Malcolm Douglas' material, they would be at best ignored, but more than likely laughed out of the building.

Always good to get both sides of the discussion, but I think you missed the point I, and others are trying to make ,is that they used a tried and tested format that worked then and still does, of course the material would have to be updated and presented in a more professional , slicker way

. If I travelled to most of the places he travelled with his trusty dog, and dared take a dog with me, we would both be kicked out without warning by some zealous ranger.

Lots of other people travell to those places WITHOUT a dog

Without commercial sponsors, there can be no production. Your favourite movies all have Coca-Cola, cigarettes, clothing and all of the ephemera of daily life carefully placed into the hands of the actors - this is part of how they fund the form, which you still have to pay to see. 

Yes, I fully realize that you need/must have sponsorship, but how far do you think a movie would get if the leading actor took a swig of coca cola and then did a 10 minute promo/info with the ceo of cocacola/amital and then went back to the movie script.
Fine to include the products/logos in passing, like lifting the car bonnet up to fill the radiator up and showing the "redarc"products or the "glind" shower and giving them a quick mention BUT we don't want to see a 10 minute interveiw with the owner of Redarc products espousing  his products .
Sure use ARB products, have their stickers plastered all over everything, say you're using their stuff, when you're actually using it, but don't gone on and on and on and on and on and on about it.
THAT'S what the ad breaks are for.

Pat Callinan has managed to get 4WDing onto network television for the first time in decades, albeit on a Saturday afternoon. The boys from All4Adventure, despite their down home credibility, same slot.
When 4WD Touring Australia gets a free-to-air slot, I doubt they will be placing us on Tuesday nights at 8pm as we will be soon on Foxtel again.

Guess you will have to work on the squeaky wheel syndrome there

Quote
No, prime time has no place for us, and it is not our fault

Sorry have to disagree on this, look at some of the other travel shows time slots and quality shows will get the air time.  The more ads you build in the lower the quality of the content, the lower quality is then reflected in the network rejections

Quote
The shows that I and my colleagues make represent an alternative to the drivel of prime-time television. The problem isn't that we are commercially hungry - it is that 90% of viewers would rather watch My Kitchen Rules.

I'd almost bet my left nut that the majority of viewers are heartily sick of "reality " tv shows

The other point that is being made is it's not just your show Carlisle that we're talking about, there are 2 or 4 fishing shows that do the the same. There was a very good show with 2 blokes going fishing and camping a couple of years ago, 1 left the other carried on, bought in some people that could hardly string 2 words together, filled the show up with ads, destroyed the environment in many places and then wonder why they got a canning.

Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, it isn't, it's MY point of view as a viewer that is just fed up with what are allegedly programs but are in fact 25 minutes of infomertial and 5 minutes of quality content

There can only be 1 outcome in this scenario.
 
Either joe public swallows this 2nd rate stuff and it will continue to be produced
or
He can hit the "off" button ( guess what I'm doing)






ok I getting off of my soap box now
 :cheers: Keith
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Rumpig on January 20, 2013, 08:02:19 PM


There can only be 1 outcome in this scenario.
 
Either joe public swallows this 2nd rate stuff and it will continue to be produced
or
He can hit the "off" button ( guess what I'm doing)

and that's exactly what i did on the weekend also. as much as i wanted to watch Pat whilst he travelled through an area we ourselves travelled 2 years back, 10 minutes into the show i lost interest switched the telly off and went and surfed the net on the computer instead.
i've also stopped watching 4wd tv for the most part aswell, the fact he's always at the mud races or Loveday 4wd Park time and time again has me not being bothered to watch the show anymore.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: McGirr on January 20, 2013, 08:20:18 PM
Regretfully the way tv stations are like all forms of media they need advertising to make money.

Over the years we have seen a lot of shows get taken off because of ratings and lack of audience. From an advertisers point of view they want to be seen by as many people as possible.

To be taken serious by a tv station you have to be recognized by the public. If I decided to do a documentary on the Cape I would have no chance of selling it to any one. No one knows me.

Also if you look at the old documentaries they explored places very few people went to. Today all these places have been explored numerous times via documentaries and us.

The Malcolm Douglas's , Les Hiddens, Jack Absalom, Keith Adams, Leyland Bros, Alby Mangels of the world showed us places we have only heard about back then but now can access easy.

Regretfully today , as Carlisle mentioned, has changed. Yes we can vote by not watching it but we have to face the facts that this is the way things are heading.

Is there really any final frontiers out there that has not been discovered.

Mark
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 20, 2013, 08:30:32 PM
.

Is there really any final frontiers out there that has not been discovered.

Mark

The bottom of the ocean, more people have been to the moon than to the deepest parts of the oceans.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Brucer on January 20, 2013, 09:13:11 PM
The line is repeated "things have changed" blah blah but I think what we all know, and lament that what they have changed from was far superior to what they have changed to. It's pretty sad when 4WD'ers turn off a 4WDing show because the content is so devoid of useful information. Understood the need for sponsors to fund the show, but the other side of that is that sponsors need content that an audience will actually watch. The current efforts by Pat and his ilk belong on the telemarketing channel. They are just one long ad.
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 20, 2013, 10:06:40 PM
Yes and as I said earlier they aren't targetted at an audience that already have all the gear and go and explore these places. They are for newbies to the hobby because that is the only way to get sponsors on board which means tv channels will get on board.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: MDS69 on January 21, 2013, 06:33:43 AM
Hi Swaggers


If you are going to make a show on a particular track do you think it may help to say where it starts and ends? 
Maybe how many k's it is. 
What about whether you can make it without carrying spare fuel. 
Where to stay (and not just private places and pls say how much it is to stay)
Do you need to book places?
What would be a good itinerary?
What type of vehicle do you need?  Heavy, medium or light?
Whats the minimum recovery gear you need?  Is it a snatch strap and rated recovery points due to the high number of vehicles.  Is it a full kit?
Where the hell can you get bloody potable water on the trip?
Does anyone really care what 5yo billy has been told to say about a product.

I suppose I was spared a crap stupid cooking lesson on this episode so maybe there is an upside.


There has been some good replies here and also Carlisles behind the scenes experience sheds a lot of light on what TV networks want but no one has answered dazzlers original question. I understand and accept Carlisles reply but surely Pat and Co could work some of these into their episodes especially for less experienced travellers who don't use myswag etc. I was excited to see the recent episode on the Oodnadatta Track having completed it only 3-4 months prior but it did not reflect my experiences, I was wondering if there were two different tracks. I thought this nearly could have been two episodes.
However I envy what Pat, Carlisle (haven't seen his show as I don't have pay tv), Simon and co present each week as it beats sitting behind a computer all day.

With regards to dazzlers questions that I quoted above they were all the things I was asking when I planned our 4 week 7000km trip. Lots and lots of map reading of several different maps, books, phone calls and the good old internet. It wasn't easy let me tell you.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Mrs smith on January 21, 2013, 07:55:25 AM
One of the biggest things that would change perception on these new shows
would be the use of well worn/used gear , none of us can change or buy a new fridge
every trip, most of us have cars that are not the latest and greatest and where more
interested in that nice little camping spot or historical marker or event that was there
and might not know about than a flash as a rat new everything. Whats wrong with breakdowns
and repairs, there part of the real world. All the shows of old had the same trusty well used gear (yep even a $igma) and when they updated you took notice, couldn't help but.
So they could stop showing people 35minutes of sales propaganda per hour and start
showing people what they don't need to do a trip, you know they explored this country
on horse and camel then spoked wheel cars and yet they keep telling us we need to spend the
economy of a small nation to be able to travel a little off the beaten track. Pun intended. lol
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: DannyG on January 21, 2013, 08:08:21 AM
I think a lot of what people are asking for is in the 4WD Action DVD's.

Old 4wd's, old well used gear, tracks that are usually interesting and not your normal iconic 4wd/touring destinations, they usually contain enough relevant information to help the average punter do the track, they showcase their sponsors during the ad breaks but the persona of the presenters annoy a lot of people. Cant win! ;)

Ive probably open a can of worms with that statement!

Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Mrs smith on January 21, 2013, 11:43:00 AM
I think a lot of what people are asking for is in the 4WD Action DVD's.

Old 4wd's, old well used gear, tracks that are usually interesting and not your normal iconic 4wd/touring destinations, they usually contain enough relevant information to help the average punter do the track, they showcase their sponsors during the ad breaks but the persona of the presenters annoy a lot of people. Cant win! ;)

Ive probably open a can of worms with that statement!

That's pretty funny, bogans in the bush.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: gclan on January 21, 2013, 11:44:44 AM
Danny, I have to agree with you there on the 4wdAction DVDs, and I'll stand up and be flamed with you.

4wd Action is essentially about 4wding (which I love), but is branching out into travel and touring. I only buy their mags for the DVD. I skip through the ads because they're always the same and there's nothing new, plus we have all the gear we need already.

I actually don't mind Roothy and Graham (maybe it's a girl thing?). They at least have a bit of character about them, and I enjoy the mix of local and iconic places they travel to, and the local guides that often go along with them. They show some of the out of the way, less travelled routes as well within those iconic destinations which inspires me to want to get out and explore.

I could do without the whole 'we're the first through this track for XX number of years' spiel though.

As others have said though, the majority of us now have access to those remote areas that years ago, only a few dared to venture into. The only places still unexplored are probably on private property and only a handful are granted permission (usually well known tv/magazine personalities).

This sparked a whole other debate on a different forum. Should the TV shows/mags DVDs show remote, wild, exciting tracks and places that only they (or a very small minority) can gain access to while we, the general public, will never get the chance to experience them for ourselves, or do we want to only see tracks, campsites, stunning vistas etc... that we realistically have a chance to experience for ourselves?

We video quite a bit of our personal travels and a few snippets end up on our youtube channel. Most are our local 4wd hangouts, but we actually have hundreds of hours of our 4wd/camping holiday travels across Australia waiting to be edited and uploaded as well (that would be a full time job in itself).  I, and others, used to complain about seeing the same old places on the screen week in week out, but in reality, it does take a lot of money and time to drive across this beautiful Country of ours, and I can only imagine the cost of having to accommodate and cater for a crew as well as pay for fuel for several vehicles for several months of the year so that we can have a bit of variety on our screens. Unfortunately, sponsors are a vital part of this industry.

I'll keep watching these shows because the adventurer in me wants to keep seeing more and more so I can dream about where I'd like to go exploring next, but only as long as I hold the power to skip through the ads or just turn the box off. 


Karen










Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 21, 2013, 12:07:21 PM
I too quite enjoy most of the 4WDA DVDs just can't stand the mag it comes with these days

I enjoy Graham Cahill as a host, not so much the Roothy character, John himself is a lovely bloke and would prefer to just see him be himself rather than XXXX swigging bogan that is expected


I'm surprised Ron & Viv Moon haven't turned their world wide adventure into an ongoing video series.

Hopefully the Overland Journal 7 continents expedition make a decent video series of their trips

There is also aSouth African guy runs a forum that does some pretty good videos of his travels and vehicle buildups etc. will try and find the links
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Bird on January 21, 2013, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: ozbogwam
.... not so much the Roothy character, John himself is a lovely bloke and would prefer to just see him be himself rather than XXXX swigging bogan that is expected
that right there puts me off the whole thing..
maybe when I was 15 I'd look up to someone pretending to be a macho hillbilly.
Title: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: ozbogwam on January 21, 2013, 06:59:18 PM
This is the link to the South African forum and the videos

http://www.4xforum.com/
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Paul (SA) on January 25, 2013, 07:48:13 PM
What's wrong with getting On Top Down Under with Penny Wells? Snigger snigger.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Carlisle Rogers on January 25, 2013, 08:19:14 PM
Paul...behave.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: xcvator on January 25, 2013, 08:24:49 PM
What's wrong with getting On Top Down Under with Penny Wells? Snigger snigger.
Buggard if I can remember anything about her show  :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: McGirr on January 25, 2013, 08:42:17 PM
Here is a preview

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rSHUgfSA06M (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rSHUgfSA06M)

At 4.52 you will see some really tough 4wd  ;D

Carlisle I would maybe consider her instead of Craig  ;D

Mark
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: xcvator on January 25, 2013, 08:56:07 PM
Here is a preview

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw)

At 4.52 you will see some really tough 4wd  ;D

Carlisle I would maybe consider her instead of Craig  ;D

Mark

That's a weird link there Mark ?
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: McGirr on January 25, 2013, 09:11:31 PM

All fixed apologies

Mark
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Paul (SA) on January 25, 2013, 09:37:21 PM
Paul...behave.

Come on Carlisle. I have so much more material. Especially from MCGirrs link.   :angel:

I just wonder who the dirty great pig was she talked about early on. Might have been a swagger having a kip.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: kylarama on January 25, 2013, 10:08:52 PM
These types of shows are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

They need this infomercial style of show to financially survive, but the problem is 95% of viewing public don't want to watch infomercials!  I know I struggle and end up turning off.

The Leyland brothers, Malcolm Douglas and the Alby Mangels type shows were all very successful for a very good reason.  They had never been done before. 99% of the viewers had never been to the places they went too and 95% had probably never heard of those places.  It was all new then, now every style of shows been done 100 times over.

I'd deffintly watch them more if they didn't stop for 5 minutes in a half hour show (20 minutes without ads) and bang on about brand X's new tyres with brand X's marketing manager.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Paul (SA) on April 06, 2014, 08:54:32 PM
I was watching Simon Christies show today and at the end he had a bit of a rant saying he wanted to categorically state he wanted nothing to do with the 4x4 shows in brisbane this weekend and Melbourne later this year and that he was only going to support some other one. He gave a rather pointed reason why indicating that the only one he was going to support was genuine and what 4x4 enthusiasts really want etc etc.

Anyone know what all this was about?
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: Rumpig on April 06, 2014, 09:14:11 PM
I was watching Simon Christies show today and at the end he had a bit of a rant saying he wanted to categorically state he wanted nothing to do with the 4x4 shows in brisbane this weekend and Melbourne later this year and that he was only going to support some other one. He gave a rather pointed reason why indicating that the only one he was going to support was genuine and what 4x4 enthusiasts really want etc etc.

Anyone know what all this was about?
not sure exactly what he's on about but i have an idea... i heard some very interesting talk at a party last night about several well know people in the 4wd industry and future shows. i don't know the full details or certainty of it happening so won't say who they are or what they are doing, but there's definately some interesting stuff happening behind the scenes in the 4wd industry at the moment.
Title: Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
Post by: wakychapmans on July 18, 2016, 10:58:25 AM
so yes... this is kind of a gravedig.

But I was watching some DVD's on the weekend and it made me remember this thread.

I'm more of the 4wd touring tyre. Not overly keen on "hardcore balls to the wallz" 4b'n.

A few years back I stumbled across a Canning Stock Route 3 DVD set though a mutual friend. At the time, I watched it and put it away. I dug it out last week and watched it again.

I then logged onto the producers website ( http://4x4videosofaustralia.com (http://4x4videosofaustralia.com) ) and had a look at what else they had released...

Well blow me down... placed an 11 DVD order and received them on Friday. (they even did me a discount on the set)

I've only had time to watch a few of them but so far the stand outs are:

Binns Track - showed me places I had no idea existed
Desert Highways - (2 disc set) covering pretty much all of Len Beadells roads/tracks/highways
Savannah Way - loved it all.

They're releasing a new Canning DVD later this year too. (though the old one from 2004 ain't bad)

What I liked:
scenery, normal people in normal vehicles (having normal problems with them) and NO BLOODY ADVERTISING (bar a thank you in the credits)

what I didn't like:
nothing. I'm happy with them all (so far)

what SWMBO didn't like:
in her words... "too many dampers" and the fact that they played the same music every time a damper was being cooked...

anyway... I'm not connected to these people at all. But if you just want some "normal", Leyland Brothers style outback touring DVD's, then they might be appealing to you.

I can tell you that the wife is now interested in heading out for some longer trips after (being coerced into) watching some.


Wayne.