MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: GS on January 08, 2013, 07:16:28 AM
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I have been driving on beaches irregularly for over 15 years. Places like Fraser Island, Double Island, Inskip Point, Stradbroke Island etc.
I have towed a light, unbraked trailer to Fraser a few times with my old 2.7L 90 series Prado without problem.
I now have a heavier camper trailer, Goldstream, that weighs about 1500kg loaded and a 120 series Prado D4D tow vehicle.
We are booked in at Dili Village for the Easter school holidays and will be travelling by ourselves, Wife and 2 young kids.
Now I like to be prepared should something go wrong.
Besides recovery gear:
Snatch Strap
Shackles
Damper
gloves
Compressor
Max Trax (waiting for the next sale)
Shovel
And lower tyre pressures, normally run 25lb but am thinking I will need to be much lower than that, maybe 15lb.
I would appreciate any assistance or driving tips from others that also tow these size campers on the beach.
I have convinced the 2nd half that I know what I'm doing, now I just need to be sure to maintain my place in the pecking order.
GS
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The sand on all SE QLD beaches is currently dry and soft, I'd say take 2 x pairs of Maxtrax and be prepared to drop your tyre pressure to 10 psi on both the vehicle and camper. On my 120 towing a 1500 kg camper I run the rear tyres at 3-4 psi higher than the front and camper because of the ball weight.
Have fun
John
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When dealing with cuttings second gear, reasonable momentum and a healthy dose of revs to keep things going forward.
Have fun.
Nomad. :cheers:
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Hi GS, do you have any traction aids on the Prado? I'd do whatever you can to lighten the camper. For instance, if Dili has drinking water, consider not filling your tanks and just carry one full jerry for the trip over. I found the trickiest bits (back in Sept 2010) were getting on and off the ferry at Inskip due to very deep and soft sand. I was towing a (less than) 1 tonne Cub Camper behind a stock standard diesel Pajero, and dropped pressures to about 15 all round for the crossing then back up to 22 for day trips without the trailer. Can't wait to get there again. Enjoy.
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Hi GS,
We just got back on friday, like you I was worried. Bought the max trax especially for the trip as we were towing a loaded up Complete Campsite.
We went down to 16psi as the sand was hot and dry. We passed 2 bogged vehicles on the way across inskip and 4 coming home (they were heading for the island).
I think if you air down and drive sensibly you will be right, the only piece of recovery gear I used was a shovel, and that was to bury my 8yo.
As we were coming back from a day trip from the western side, Awinya Creek (our favorite side) on dusk we came across a Indian bloke, his wife and a small child bogged to the doors in some type of Honda. He said he aired down to 20psi and seemed to take the deepest part of the track. The track clearly stated high clearance vehicles, radios, experience and water, but here he was with nothing, had a bit of a giggle.
Couple of young blokes turned up and helped him out.
Don't stress, even if you get stuck there will be people there to help.
We made sure we timed the tides and towed the trailer when they were at their lowest, meant early starts and first barge both ways but made for a easier trip. We stayed a fair way up the eastern beach at Cathedrals, Dilli Village is a lot closer and only about 20k up the beach.
Even our first trip across Indian head there were blokes airing down even further and stressing, he took of like a bull at a gate and drove way to fast and bounced everywhere. I found most people seemed to drive way to fast. We just kept a bit of momentum and watched the revs and really just cruised everywhere, most of the time in high range. The only time we went into low was for Indian Head and South Ngkala Rocks bypass, this caught a few people out and closed the track for a couple of hours on 2 occasions I was aware of.
The day we tried to get to Kingfisher there was a bogged backpackers vehicle blocking the track, the only problem they locked the car and walked away, could do anything about it.
I'm sure you will be right and you will get a lot more tips on here from people with more experience than me. Just remember we were stressing a little bit about getting stuck but it was pretty easy.
Good luck,
heaps of fun.
Cant wait to go back, probably have a camp on the western side.
Renno :cheers:
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Hi GS, I have similar CT. Used to tow with V8 Jeep, now the diesel cruiser. If your prado is auto then life is much easier in sand. Had 3 manual 4wd's prior to the auto only jeep and now would never go back. All the above comments are spot on, though I would err on the high side of speed purely for momentum reasons. Whilst you don't want to cane too much (wheels off ground is a sure fire way to lose forward motion & stuff your CT) I have seen far too many boggings from slow beginnings. Not sure about the prado 4cyl motor, but you do need plenty of top end power in reserve if things turn sour. The comment about traction control is relevant, far more useful in sand than manually operated diff locks. My series 3 V8 l/rover had open diffs and to this day was still the best sand truck I've owned.
Don't know about going down to 10psi in the tyres, this would be a last resort. Punctures start to become an issue at this pressure, particularly on the inland tracks. Weight is the key in the trailer, try to put as much gear as possible in the prado, and the water comment is spot on too.
Good luck.
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Thanks for the replies
One of our reasons for selecting Dilli as the camping destination was it's southernmost campground location to reduce towing time on the beach, with only minimal encounters of soft sand.
Traversing Inskip Point is my most likely area of concern, It has never caused me a problem to date but I usually have to help out a few people who are stuck there.
Will be travelling on a 7:22am low tide so once on the hard stuff should be smooth sailing.
Our Prado is auto but no traction controls, compared to my previous manual 4x4s the auto is a dream in sand.
Once we have the camper set up at Dilli I'll have the tyre pressures up to 25psi.
I need to remember to keep all the recover gear accessible not buried under piles of bags and kids toys.
Cheers
GS
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Hi again GS, why go back up to 25? Around 18-20 is acceptable as a balance between tyre safety and traction. It's much easier on the whole car at around 20, know this from experience. I never drive above 60 on sand regardless of the limit. Safer and lets you take in more of the view. Just my opinion. Lower pressure puts less stress on the gearbox and cooling system, noticeable difference in ease of driving. Since you have a compressor give it a try.
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I'm just back from Moreton where the sand was as soft as I've seen it in maybe 15 or so trips. Generally I've found Moreton a bit worse than Fraser although haven't been to Fraser in the middle of a dry summer for many years.
I was towing a lifestyle extenda approx 1000kgs. On the way over it had rained a little earlier in the day and it was easy (14psi front, 17psi back). On the way back it had not rained for days and very soft. To get off the eastern beach at high tide I dropped to 12psi all around including the trailer. Could have got to 10psi perhaps but 12 was enough. I drive a 4.2TD 100 auto with 33s so perhaps a bit of a head start on the prado in the soft stuff where momentum is critical.
I think you'll be fine at 15psi on Fraser since you are only going to Dilli. If you get across the soft stuff at inskip you'll likely be fine on the island.
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Hi i have the same combo as you one of the things i can reccomend is to get a jockey wheel with a really big tyre as i have had my goldstream bogged and my method was to put the jockey wheel on its lowest setting and have it wound all the way down i then secured a snatch strap to the kockey wheel and the a frame to support then wheel.
Detached trailer and got out of bog
Spun around and pulled camper very slowly through low range reverse
By having the big tyre and the jockey wheel as low as possible you are reducing strain
Not a preffered method i know but had to be done at the time
The biggest problem i found with the goldstream in sand is that the track is not the same as the prado so it wont follow the ruts however i love my storm and this was a small price to pay
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Dilli is a great place to camp. I'm sure after this trip you'll feel comfortable to venture further north, as driving along the beach at low(er) tide is quite easy most times.
The entrance to Dilli from the beach is the only spot that should challenge you I reckon. Lots of momentum to get through the churned up sand at the track entrance, plus it slopes up, you'll be fine.
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I generally run 22-25psi on Fraser. You'll do a lot of beach driving on hard sand and the speed limit is 80k so don't go too low. I'd start at Inskip on 22. You can allways drop a few more psi out if you get stuck. If the approach to Dilli looks really soft then drop to ~15 for the entrance, then air up back to ~25 after unhitching the camper.
Allways carry your compressor and don't be afraid to take your time to vary pressures as required.
Above all, have a great time..
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Hi GS
definitely be under 20psi in the tyres for Fraser, max speed is only 80kph, you'll be quite safe with sensible driving.
I got anywhere I wanted to with 18 psi last year, had the fronts down to 16 for the fully loaded drive to the campsite buther otherwise 18 all round.
Only other sugestion I can make from the above great tips, is that when fully loaded and driving on firm packed low tide sand is to not have the certre diff locked.
No matter how hard I try with varying pressures I can't guarantee to myself that the front wheels will be turning the same rolling diameter as the back wheels (due to the all the extra weight in the rear) so I just have my Prado in AWD (centre diff unlocked) for the firm stuff to take any load off the drivetrain and when we come across anything tricky I just shove the fun lever forward.
unloaded the centre diff is always locked (umless I get into Eurong)
cheers, have fun!
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I think easy inskip tip is to get on the first access track to the beach wich is a down hill run and very short then drive the hard stuff all the way upto the barges, u then skip that long soft run across to the barges.
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The entrance to Dilli from the beach is the only spot that should challenge you I reckon. Lots of momentum to get through the churned up sand at the track entrance, plus it slopes up, you'll be fine.
This is where we got stuck with our trailer in October (nothing 2 sets of Maxx couldn't fix). But that was a high tide, so couldn't get as much momentum as you will.
Tyre pressure was 20's. Dropped to 15s after getting stuck then put them back up to 20 after setting up camp.
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I think easy inskip tip is to get on the first access track to the beach wich is a down hill run and very short then drive the hard stuff all the way upto the barges, u then skip that long soft run across to the barges.
Good idea, except you can't get past the sink hole from last year.
In the last 6 months, i think i've spent more time bogged in the sand at Inskip than any other swagger, go to 12 psi to start.
We tried it at 17 to start and it was bog city.
My advice is, once your past the left turn at rainbow, just floor it and hold it flat all the way to Inskip.
You'll glide over the sand like teflon coated turd on a chrome plated shovel............... ;D
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.....like teflon coated turd on a chrome plated shovel............... ;D
Sorry Jeepers but my imagination is still recovering from Christmas excesses, sooooo
:worthles:
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Careful what you wish for........
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take as much weight out of the van and put it in the prado and dont be afraid to drop air, when we went over i had 16 in the front 18 in the back and 16 in the camper, both truck and trailer were very heavy. If you be careful you will be fine running pressures of 16 or 18 and it makes it more comfotable when driving the inland tracks. Also dont speed on the tracks, i lost my temper with several vehicles that were speeding through the tracks.
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If you are booked in at Dilli the vast majority of your run whilst towing will be up 70 Mile Beach and soft sand will not be an issue. Drop all tyre pressures to 18-20psi and you will sail through. The only difficult bits will be the soft areas at Inskip and coming off the barge onto the beach west of Hook Point, and a decent approach speed should cope with both those - just don't stop until you are either on the barge or the harder sand!
All your driving whilst on the island will be without the trailer attached - again 18psi should cope with the tracks.
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Thank-you all for your responses, the information has been great.
As noted my biggest issues will be the soft patches, on and off the barge and the entry to Dilli, thanks for the tyre pressure advice for traversing these areas.
Love Fraser and the natural beauty of the place and the sometimes challenging driving conditions. This will probably be my 7th return visit, it's great being able to visit such a place only a few hours from home.
Most of the situations that I have helped people out of was the result of poor planning and ill preparedness. No recovery gear, no tyre pressure adjustment, no idea. Then on the flip side I have seen those with the most well equipped 4x4 and loads of experience still get into strife.
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Drop down to 18psi on the bitumen just before the Inskip beach entry - you can cruise up 70 Mile Beach at up to 80kph at that pressure without any problems. I don't know what the Dilli entrance is like but I had no problems getting my camper (1500kg) up to Cathedral Beach camp site.
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And you know what, if you get stuck it's all just part of the adventure. Air down, clear the wheels and have another go. If it was easy to get to all the places we like everyone would be there.
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This is why most of us (on here) buy 4x4's isn't it?
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This is where we got stuck with our trailer in October (nothing 2 sets of Maxx couldn't fix). But that was a high tide, so couldn't get as much momentum as you will.
Tyre pressure was 20's. Dropped to 15s after getting stuck then put them back up to 20 after setting up camp.
X 3
i had never towed a trailer on sand before, came all the way from the western side barge drop off, up 75 mile beach, seen the dilli village entrance, quietly beat my own chest at being a man then nec minute, bogged.
That was the only issue with soft sand we had apart from coming off the barge at inskip on the way home but thats another story.
Keep the revs up and remember, its all part of the adventure!!
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We were out there from 30/12 - 3/1 but only took tents, left camper in hervey bay. We went river heads to wangoolba creek so we didnt have to worry about timing tides, vic took his cue from the rangers who were all running skinny road tyres on their cruisers without letting any air out. Only place we got bogged was wathumba creek when he went to go across the creek at low tide to help a guy who's starter motor Shite itself (will be all in the trip report when we finally get home). They apparently had a bit of rain over a few days before we got there though. We saw people towing double axle trailers and there was a 22 ft cruiser boat out there too that someone was towing!
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We saw people towing double axle trailers and there was a 22 ft cruiser boat out there too that someone was towing!
if you saw the size of the boats some guys used to tow up the island when the Fraser Fishing Expo used to be on, you'd be gob smacked. it really was a spectacle worth seeing.
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take as much weight out of the van and put it in the prado and dont be afraid to drop air, when we went over i had 16 in the front 18 in the back and 16 in the camper, both truck and trailer were very heavy. If you be careful you will be fine running pressures of 16 or 18 and it makes it more comfotable when driving the inland tracks. Also dont speed on the tracks, i lost my temper with several vehicles that were speeding through the tracks.
Good advice - lower the tire pressures (good advice in this post generally) and reduce the weight in the trailer as much as possible. Weight is everything in that environment. Know your tide timings and don't take un-necessary risks.
We were ther JUL 12 - great time. My experience is that there are usualy helpful people around. You appear to have the right recovery gear and attitude - you'll have a great time!
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Watch the tides and you only have a short run to camp along a hard beach
Get to in skip early so you don't have to line up on soft sand, pick your line, and go go go
18psi, easy peasy, you'll reply to this thread and say it was so easy
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oh yeah, leave the water tank empty and top up at the campsite, save lots of weight there
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oh yeah, leave the water tank empty and top up at the campsite, save lots of weight there
I'mthinkingofdoingthatmyselfnexttime. We carry a 100 litres currently.
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My general rule is...
18psi not towing
12-15 psi towing match the trailer tyres as well.
I have run as low as 8 psi with no problems just take it easy and don't turn sharp.
This is after many years of towing 1800+kg to Moreton, straddle, Fraser and the Simpson desert.
Drop low before you hit sand and you won't get stuck, your car may do it at 18-25psi but it will be working hard and chewing fuel.
Go low and go slow for soft sand and increase to 15-18 for harder sand up to 80kph just don't turn sharp!
Sent from Behind you...BOO
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I would also echo some of the comments that others have made about lowering the tyre pressures in the camper. I've helped many a stubborn old grey nomad with his diesel toyota land barge or patrol who's been stuck at cuttings trying to get a 1.5 tonne+ caravan off the beach with no success. A year or so ago one old fella with his 4.2 Patrol made about 5 attempts in front of us trying to get off the beach at teewah before running out of puff, each time reversing back and giving it another go. He told me he was running 15psi in the patrol but he refused to drop the caravan's tyres from the their 30+psi road pressure. I finally convinced him to drop the caravan's pressures to 18 or so psi and off the beach he went first go. He came back to thank me for the advice and said he's been camping up there for 20 years and never heard of lowering trailer/caravan pressures.
Also, if your 4wd's rear end sags or the drawbar weight is excessive that'll cause problems too. My camper trailer is only 700kg's loaded up so i make sure i can lift the drawbar by hand and that makes a HUGE difference on the soft stuff.
I don't know what the cost of these top spec pop top campers are but i would expect that they are about $30,000 new. If i was taking one of those up the beach i wouldn't hesitate in purchasing 2x pairs of Maxtrax. They're less than $300 per pair so that's something like less than 2% of the cost of the camper...
cheers
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Can anyone explain why lowering the tyres of the camper helps. I understand the tug tyres get more traction by having a longer foot print but wouldn't that make the trailer harder to pull if they also had a bigger foot print. Is it because they dont dig into the sand as deep ?
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I ran 18psi on Fraser and towed our Cape York to Orchid Beach without a worry and that has a heavy tow ball weight. Dropping the camper trailer tyre pressures as well gives a bigger foot print like your vehicle and it floats, for a better word, over the sand. It sits on top easier. I found out the hard way last time I was at Inskip. By not lowering the camper tyres I got bogged. They were trying to push a wall of sand in front of them. Lowered the pressures and drove out and too our camping spot. :cheers:
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Can anyone explain why lowering the tyres of the camper helps. I understand the tug tyres get more traction by having a longer foot print but wouldn't that make the trailer harder to pull if they also had a bigger foot print. Is it because they dont dig into the sand as deep ?
Same reason as lowering in car. Whether pushing or pulling, a partially deflated tyre is less likely to dig in and more likely to roll over objects, be they sand or mud or whatever. A fully inflated tyre is like an anchor behind your vehicle.
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Same reason as lowering in car. Whether pushing or pulling, a partially deflated tyre is less likely to dig in and more likely to roll over objects, be they sand or mud or whatever. A fully inflated tyre is like an anchor behind your vehicle
That make sense now 8)