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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: achjimmy on December 24, 2012, 05:06:14 PM

Title: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 24, 2012, 05:06:14 PM
I am so over most of the car dealers and buying a car. I went into one today to finally do the deal and alls okay till we get to the trade. They say they will only grantee the price till the 15th Jan (delivery is expected March) okay pretty short validity , others have said 6 weeks validity etc and I can live with that BUT here's the catch, if they revalue the trade before settlement,  they don't want me to have the right to veto the contract. Yeah like Iam going to sign that contract and trust a car dealer to not screw me over. I don't even reckon that would stand up to a test but I am not interested in testing it. I am just going to sell the Pajero first and hire a car till a 200 turns up. That way I don't have to waste anymore time with tossers and can just do a deal over the phone.

Rant over 

Have a merry Xmas all.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: KingBilly on December 24, 2012, 06:00:11 PM
Hey Jim, don't sign that contract.  When we bought our last car, our old one was just about out of rego and it was pretty old so wasn't going to be put on their used car lot.  Asked the dealer what he wanted to do and he said drive it until a day or so before the rego expires and bring it in.  We will give you a loan car.  As the new car was about 8 weeks away, I thought that's a good offer.  Took the old one in as instructed and we were given a brand new top of the line sedan to drive until our new car arrived at the showroom.  Wow, talk about blown away with their service.  Ended up our new car got delayed on the water or seomthing so we had the dealer's loan car for 9 weeks.  All they asked was we only drove around town and didn't do any big k's.  Hope it all works out for you.

Happy Christmas
KB
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Jenko67 on December 24, 2012, 06:00:54 PM
Yes, unfortunately the bad ones ruin it for the good ones...
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: matt150 on December 24, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Hi Jim.

Give Chatswood Toyota a go. I have purchased a lot of work vehicles thru them and my own new Prado thru them. Ask for Helen in sales and tell her Matthew from Muswellbrook recommended her. She will do a solid, fair deal and not bugger you around. PM me if you want her mobile number.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: matt150 on December 24, 2012, 08:53:44 PM
Double post.. Oops
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 24, 2012, 08:56:36 PM
Hi Jim.

Give Chatswood Toyota a go. I have purchased a lot of work vehicles thru them and my own new Prado try them. Ask for Helen in sales and tell her Matthew from Muswellbrook recommended her. She will do a solid, fair deal and not bugger you around. PM me if you want her mobile number.

Thanks Matt

Yeah I will, going away Friday buts it's pretty simple what I want so the first to get there's going to get it now. The  Paj will go on carsales after Jan 7th (back from Bermagui) and I will sell it privately.

Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: D4D on December 24, 2012, 09:04:54 PM
I love playing with car salesman almost as much as real estate agents but that's a story for another day. Back in September I was looking at a fully loaded demo Merc C250 CD1, took it for a test drive and wanted it. I've bought a few German marques before so I was expecting a deal. Get back from the test drive and start the sales dance and the dude basically said to me 'we're Mercedes, we don't need to discount' so I said see ya. I get a call from the dude early December and he tells me I can have the car for $10,000 discount, I told him where he could park his Merc.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Bird on December 24, 2012, 10:01:49 PM
so what happens if you agree on a price, do the deal, sign the paperwork, then someone runs a key down the side of your car.

is there fine print to say they can get out of it? I've never traded a car in.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: D4D on December 24, 2012, 10:07:32 PM
They can pretty much do anything even though you've signed a contract. The usual scam is to claim the new car went up in price so they have to pass the increase on.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 24, 2012, 10:31:07 PM
I can accept a change in value brought upon by many factors. What I can't is they want to be able to change/alter the contract but don't want us to have a right of cancelling if the contract is changed, it's wrong.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: D4D on December 24, 2012, 10:32:32 PM
Pretty sure you can, you'll just lose your deposit...
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: jeb1900 on December 24, 2012, 11:24:39 PM
What you're saying about selling your pajero before buying your 200 is the best idea.  It's always best to buy cars clean when you're able too IMO.  That way you're just focused on getting the cheapest price of your new car.  Rather than, trying to both get the cheapest price on your car as well as the best price for your trade in.  It's difficult to maintain focus on both.   You should end up with a better deal I think.

Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Bird on December 24, 2012, 11:38:39 PM
Do car dealers prefer trade ins over cash?
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 24, 2012, 11:47:20 PM
Do car dealers prefer trade ins over cash?

If they can stooge you with the trade and make good money on that too.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 24, 2012, 11:48:35 PM
Pretty sure you can, you'll just lose your deposit...

That's not to bad then but I thought they could make you go through with the contract?
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Bird on December 24, 2012, 11:50:58 PM
That's not to bad then but I thought they could make you go through with the contract?
its all way too hard I reckon..  like insurance fine print..

it should be just straight up out in the open.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: singo-26 on December 25, 2012, 12:49:12 AM
Whilst I would have to say that not all car dealers are honest and upfront not all buyers are either. 10 odd years ago I was working for a dealership and it would amaze you the complete b.s. I would get told by customers who after you had sold them the car and offered them a drive would walk down to the next dealership and shop you for $10.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 25, 2012, 04:30:15 AM
but what came first, the chicken or the egg.

I know a bloke who would be the worlds worst at bouncing prices from dealer to dealer until he is sure, he's got the best ever deal.

I've never met too many car salesmen that didn't p!ss me off though either.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Marschy on December 25, 2012, 05:53:46 AM
My wife works for a large dealership as a new car salesman (company fleet sales, not to the general public 89% of the time). She reckons the US marketing guru who coined the phrase "The customer is always right" should be drawn and quartered.

Once you sign the contract for the purchase of the new vehicle, that price does not change.

The vast majority of new cars sold in Australia are built overseas. With long lead times on deliveries with pretty much any manufacturer nowadays, even domestic cars, if you want that special paint job, or factory fitted GPS and they haven't got one on the showroom floor, your going to have to wait months for it to be built in an overseas or even local factory that has to schedule production based on world wide demand and consumption.

If a trade-in is offered, it should be good for 30 days, but this varies from dealership to dealership. The reason being that most valuations for second hand vehicles are based on mileage, condition etc etc.

If the lead time on delivery of your new vehicle is 3 months, a person who uses their current car for, lets say 'deliveries' could clock up 20,000 kilometers in 3 months, considerably changing the value of the car at the time the offer for a trade was made.

But your right when you say car sales people are dogdy, my wife is. She reneged on a binding agreement we had for cuddle/sexy time this morning. Just because it's Xmas morning and she is afraid the kids will get up at any minute, who cares, a deal is a deal.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: D4D on December 25, 2012, 06:24:38 AM
Once you sign the contract for the purchase of the new vehicle, that price does not change.

You might want to re-read a contract of sale.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 25, 2012, 06:42:37 AM
And I presume Marshy that's the reason you are now replying to my thread on Xmas morning LOL

There are decent car sales people and I have dealt with a few. And your correct the trade should be able to depreciate over 4 or 6 weeks, all along I have said I have no problem with that, but I should have the option of walking away "clean" from that agreement if the amount I have to pay changes? In fact as above I reckon there contract would struggle to stand up in law.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Marschy on December 25, 2012, 06:47:47 AM
You might want to re-read a contract of sale.

If you are given a production run number by the dealership and nothing changes as far as the original contract signed is concerned, the price doesn't change, e.g. same car, same production run. If the customer changes his mind after signing a contract that affects which production run the vehicle is produced on, a reasonable person may expect to pay more due to price increases, even if they are taking something off the car. Unfortunately, not everyone is reasonable.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: D4D on December 25, 2012, 07:36:01 AM
Actually no, I had the VIN for my Prado and the dealer tried to stitch me up for a $1500 increase when it landed for something or other, so I read the contract of sale and it says basically you're screwed. I didn't pay the extra $1500 though.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Black Diamond on December 25, 2012, 07:37:34 AM
Bloody loopholes everywhere  >:(
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: heath74 on December 25, 2012, 07:43:36 AM
Certainly had some bad experiences with dealers over the years, not to mention land rats...

But in all fairness the last three dealers I've dealt with we're great. Two of those in new cars, so maybe that makes a difference.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: briann532 on December 25, 2012, 09:57:43 AM
I've had this happen before........

I told mr salesfool that if he didn't agree to a firm price on tradein I'd find someone who would.
He told me, I wouldn't find anyone. :'( :'( :'( :'(

I then walked around the showroom and asked another salesman if he'd rather the commision over the dealership making more profit by reaming me?
Lo and behold first idiot comes over.... POQ sunshine.
No. 2. Made the sale there and then, agreed in contract to firm tradein up till 2 weeks after arrival of new car.
Proviso was put in as to trade in being 'as inspected', but I felt that was fair.

Merry Christmas,
Brian
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Top.ender on December 26, 2012, 10:03:28 AM
My wife works for a large dealership as a new car salesman (company fleet sales, not to the general public 89% of the time). She reckons the US marketing guru who coined the phrase "The customer is always right" should be drawn and quartered.

Once you sign the contract for the purchase of the new vehicle, that price does not change.

The vast majority of new cars sold in Australia are built overseas. With long lead times on deliveries with pretty much any manufacturer nowadays, even domestic cars, if you want that special paint job, or factory fitted GPS and they haven't got one on the showroom floor, your going to have to wait months for it to be built in an overseas or even local factory that has to schedule production based on world wide demand and consumption.

If a trade-in is offered, it should be good for 30 days, but this varies from dealership to dealership. The reason being that most valuations for second hand vehicles are based on mileage, condition etc etc.

If the lead time on delivery of your new vehicle is 3 months, a person who uses their current car for, lets say 'deliveries' could clock up 20,000 kilometers in 3 months, considerably changing the value of the car at the time the offer for a trade was made.

But your right when you say car sales people are dogdy, my wife is. She reneged on a binding agreement we had for cuddle/sexy time this morning. Just because it's Xmas morning and she is afraid the kids will get up at any minute, who cares, a deal is a deal.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: dazzler on December 26, 2012, 11:01:36 AM
I still dont get why people trade.  Uncle was a new car salesman and he always said that you should never trade.  Instead you take it to a few dealers and get a trade in price on the vehicle that you want and the best price they will do on a new one of your choice.

The trade in price will be low so they can sell it wholesale and make a few $$ or at least break even.  Sell it privately at the wholesale price which is much lower than private market price and it will sell way faster.  You can even show prospective buyers the trade price.  Take that cash and add it to your pile for the new car, or arrange the loan into your bank account so you have a pile of cash. Then, go back to the dealer and renegotiate on the new car as a cashed up buyer. 

Not having a trade puts you on top.  You are doing THEM a favour by buying it with your cash. 

Another alternative is once you have your cash from selling at wholesale price is to email every dealer in the state exactly what car you want and what is their best cash sale and that they only get one chance as you will make your decision solely based on the price.

You can play them off against each other of course.  While ever you have a trade they will position themselves on top and you will generally lose.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: GeoffA on December 26, 2012, 11:05:01 AM
I still dont get why people trade.........

Convenience..........??
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: dazzler on December 26, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
Convenience..........??

Maybe.  Comes at a big cost though. 
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: BigJules on December 26, 2012, 03:58:51 PM
I still dont get why people trade. 

To offload a POS.

The bloke next to me had a 4.8L Patrol that dropped a valve, he managed to get it to the dealer, traded it on a Navara and fled. The dealer rang him "mate, we can't get this thing going". Neighbour "it was fine, I drove it into your yard..."
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: GeoffA on December 26, 2012, 04:20:03 PM
To offload a POS.

Yep. Can take a lot of $$ and stuffing around just to get to RWC.........then advertise, deal with time-wasters, etc
Title: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: dazzler on December 26, 2012, 05:26:27 PM
Mercy you lot sound like you have had some troubles selling cars. I must have been a lucky SOaB!
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: GeoffA on December 26, 2012, 05:48:11 PM
Mercy you lot sound like you have had some troubles selling cars...........

Not me........I've never had any trouble selling.
My cars/bikes/trailers have always sold to the first to look.

Just offering something about why others might prefer to trade-in.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: heath74 on December 26, 2012, 07:16:08 PM
I've both sold privately and traded. But to be honest once I check red book, and get a range, I've found dealers usually get in there somewhere. And I've just had so many time wasters and so on that I'm happy to lose a thousand dollars just to avoid wasting 2/3 weekends.

2 particular cars that I sold privately were a real hassle.

But I'd agree if you've got the time and its convenient, its financially better to sell privately.
Title: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Jaysea on December 26, 2012, 08:50:07 PM
But your right when you say car sales people are dogdy, my wife is. She reneged on a binding agreement we had for cuddle/sexy time this morning. Just because it's Xmas morning and she is afraid the kids will get up at any minute, who cares, a deal is a deal.

You should get her to read the fine print of the wedding contract!
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 27, 2012, 07:41:30 AM
Yep its convienence generally for me. Although I have sold plenty privately, I just can't be arsed dealing with some of the people I get, also when cars still have residual or finance oweing it can be hassle free. But TBH with the Pajero none of the trades was really up there but I thought given I have a 3 mth wait and plenty of accessories I can remove (yes told them) it might work. But screw em I was doing this because the above mentioned dealer was a local dealer who had always serviced my Toyotas prevoiusly and been alright. As of today I am contacting about 6-8 others and best price wins no trade,  I will be selling the Paj privately
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Redcherokee on December 27, 2012, 08:51:12 AM
Sold the previous vehicle through Pickles auctions. Price was part way between private sale and trade-in price, and convenience factor was spot on. It was end of lease, and they even paid out the leasing company in advance with us just having to settle the difference depending on actual result at auction. Made dealing with the leasing company dead easy.

Would definitely do that again.

Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: Bird on December 27, 2012, 08:54:15 AM
Has anyone used a car broker to find the best deals??? eg: http://www.aussiecarbrokers.com.au/ (http://www.aussiecarbrokers.com.au/) (first one on google)

while its fun playing with car dealers, I just feel dirty talking to most of them... You know the fake laughter etc..
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 27, 2012, 09:06:36 AM
Has anyone used a car broker to find the best deals??? eg: http://www.aussiecarbrokers.com.au/ (http://www.aussiecarbrokers.com.au/) (first one on google)

while its fun playing with car dealers, I just feel dirty talking to most of them... You know the fake laughter etc..


Tried one once they were way out with there pricing.
Title: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: dazzler on December 27, 2012, 09:47:59 AM
When discounttnewcars.com.au started they had some good prices on orphan stock but not sure lately. We got a Toyota through them and it was cheaper than the quotes down here.
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: McGirr on December 27, 2012, 10:06:19 AM
I love playing with car salesman almost as much as real estate agents but that's a story for another day.

Come now dont drag us real estate agents into the same thread.  ;D ;D ;D

We at least deserve our own topic  ;D ;D

Now back to the car salesmen

Mark
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 27, 2012, 04:23:15 PM
Looks like its all back on track and with big thanks to Matt150 and Myswag (for letting me air my rant) Matt's contact came through and I have a contract in front of me to sign, pretty reasonable contract other  than the right to change if Toyota alters the RRP  ;) but then again it gives me the right to resind as it does if I was trading in as well, which is all I wantd from the other ****heads.

There loss somebody else's gain.

Yahoo now I gotta wait. :'(

Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: D4D on December 27, 2012, 05:19:54 PM
I love it when a plan comes together!
Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: matt150 on December 29, 2012, 07:35:08 AM
 :cheers: excellent news Jim...

Helen always makes good deals happen. I can't wait to see the new rig !!

Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: achjimmy on December 30, 2012, 08:30:09 PM
 Thanks again Matt. Helen was good to deal with (so far) and straight up. She doesn't know it yet but a colleague at work is waiting to see how the 200  turns out for me and he will be going for 200GXL to replace his ageing 100 series so she's likley to get another opertunity almost straight up besides our other work cars etc.

Hardest part now is waiting till April  :-[ especially when yesterday at Callala Bay shops 3 bloody 200's turn up, and again today at Bermagui there is 4 in the caravan park. It's like a torture test to see if I can wait. :laugh:

Title: Re: Car dealers annoy me.
Post by: D4D on December 30, 2012, 08:37:32 PM
Hardest part now is waiting till April  :-[ especially when yesterday at Callala Bay shops 3 bloody 200's turn up, and again today at Bermagui there is 4 in the caravan park. It's like a torture test to see if I can wait. :laugh:

Just keep thinking 2013 spec, 2013 spec :)