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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: WilSurf on December 04, 2012, 05:11:53 PM
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We have an investment property in Melbourne and for the last year it was good.
It is a new build townhouse and is rented out.
The problem started a month ago when during the inspection it became known that the air conditioning unit had a fault.
An aircon expert was called to find and repair it.
Now this so-called expert is telling us that he can't get the parts and I have to replace the complete unit.
When I asked my agent to ask the expert for the part number and aircon model, the expert replies:
The make is a Daijitsu. Model ASW-H24TA/SAR1D1.
It is displaying error e5 and requires new indoor or outdoor boards (Outdoor board consists of 4 pcb's)
If the owner gets the parts I do not take responsibility if they do not fix the problem.
He even doesn't know what the problems is, so how does he know he can't get the parts?
I found a website woth spare prts for this model: http://spares.bigwarehouse.com.au/index.php?cPath=82132_82133_82137 (http://spares.bigwarehouse.com.au/index.php?cPath=82132_82133_82137)
I have forwarded this to our agent.
What is going on here?
It seems to me that this expert wants to sell new units only.
The problem is that the builder of the units have gone bust (Welcome Homes) so I can't go to them.
The agent tried the distributors in Australia AWA but they told them they are no longer dealing with this brand and directed them to Continental Trading Group. They adviced our agent that the unit is out of warranty (over 12 months, just) and they can't help us.
I am sure someone can find the fault and get spares?
HELP.
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i presume this is a split unit? my inlaws just got the whole unit replaced 3 years old, there like cars parts are dearer than gold.
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Have you checked if insurance might cover the repairs?
KB
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As above as often the boards are an intergral unit
He is probably indicating that it is cheaper to replace the entire unit
He will not take responsibility as i am guessing that the boards he can get may not be an exact match (discontinued unit or otherwise)
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I helped the sister-in-law with this issue the other day. It appears wholesalers ship in container loads of split systems for summer. Sell them cheap with a one year warranty. When the unit craps out after warranty they don't hold parts so you have to buy a new unit.
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The unit would have been imported by the developer / builder as it keeps the costs down. As mentioned check your insurance other wise you will need to buy a new one.
You would have had a depreciation schedule done and the new unit can be written off as either a prime cost value or diminishing value over 5 years. Check with your accountant. A recognized brand will give you a 5 year warranty and parts easy to get.
We see it all the time in Cairns in new unit blocks cheap air conditioners imported by the builders.
Mark
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If the unit is a split system, it probably wouldn't cost a great deal more to replace the unit when you factor in parts+ labour. Only to potentially not fix the problem or to have another part fail a short time later. Plus you get a warranty again.
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I would be trying the insurance route.
You would probably need some written advice as to what caused the problem eg it may have happened after lightning or blackouts.
Also be worth calling Dept of Fair Trading (whatever they are called in your state) I think you may find that even though it is just more then 12 months it will still be covered by warranty. Ultimately that may be by the importer at the end of the chain.
Unfortunately I have found that tradies used by real estate agents tend to take the easy path of least resistance.
I had an air con here that I was advised would not be worth fixing, same sorts of arguments, fried electronics, all sounds bad. Finally got someone who had an idea and he replaced the faulty capacitor for $15 + travel - still going strong.
In regards to tax, a repair is an expense and complete deduction in the tax year, a new unit is a new asset and requires adding to your schedule.
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Also be worth calling Dept of Fair Trading (whatever they are called in your state) I think you may find that even though it is just more then 12 months it will still be covered by warranty. Ultimately that may be by the importer at the end of the chain.
this is true. dad paid 2600 for a Sony TV. It died few weeks out of warranty..
Sony said $800+ in parts from memory.. in the mean time I called dept of fair trading I think it was, teh bloke told me the URL to go to, which PDF to open, what page to go to and what line to go to!! Dude knew his ****..
the example on the page he pointed to related to TV's... it said just that, if you buy a $200 TV you expect $200 worth - but if you pay stupid $, then you can expect it to give better service. the result was repaired for nothing must to the disgust of the repair place - who when they expcted the $800 had parts in stock,yet when it was warranty had to order them in ??? ??? ??? ...
but in the OP case, the company has gone out of business I think he said? so nobody to go back on.
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As an Air Con tradie, the modern units are now not repair friendly. Slight variations to software during model runs are not uncommon and render the rest of the boards outdated. It is highway robbery and is removing much of the diagnosis skill from the trade.
Previously, diagnosis and repair was possible, now they are throw-away's in many instances with parts cost far exceeding the replacement costs.
I install one brand of split only and have had one problem in 800+ units over 6 years.
PM me and I will give you the name.
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Buy em a couple a fans. Pussies in melbourne wouldnt know what hot was :cheers:
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but in the OP case, the company has gone out of business I think he said? so nobody to go back on.
Builder went broke
Next stop is AWA - if they supplied the unit they have a responsibility
Then the distributor or importer.
If the units are still supplied in Australia there is an avenue for warranty.
If the builder imported the units himself, he would be importer and supplier so he would be responsible for warranty, if he has not gone bust there is no warranty
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Next door neighbour specialises in board repairs. If you want I can get you his number and give home a call. Washing machines, heaters you name it. I can't think of his company name at the moment. He is very good at what he does.
Wayne
Here is the website. Ask for Steve.
http://www.modulerepair.com.au/ (http://www.modulerepair.com.au/)
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Hey Wilsurf,
I'm just going to second what's already been said. My guess is that the expert has looked at it and identified it as a cheap and nasty import. From his experience he probably knows that even if you put replacement parts in it, it will just break again and frustrate you. Obviously he doesn't want to get on the hook for keeping replacing parts that he believes will just fail.
I suspect that you'll just have to cough up for a new unit as the others have said. With the builder going bust, all you can hope for is to sweet-talk your insurance company - remind them how many years you've been loyal customers, etc. The up side is that the install for the new unit should be relatively cheap, since they should hopefully be able to re-use the existing wiring and plumbing (so long as it's in good condition).
It *might* be worth asking your agent to arrange someone else to inspect the unit and see if you can do a dodgy repair. We had a friend's son look at one of our AC units, he advised it was so old and bad that it was just broken and we'd need a new unit. We were broke, so just lived without AC in our bedroom through summer. My Dad is a sparky, and when he came up to visit he had a look at it, replaced a $15 contactor, and it's been working faultlessly ever since. That was 2 years ago. I suspect the original bloke was busy enough with easy jobs that he saw no need to waste time on a cheap fix. Cairns seems to be like that - in the good times the tradies don't want to help you and double their prices, in the bad times they cry that the town isn't supporting them and their ski boat repayments. Maybe Melbourne is the same.
On a related note, I've used the BigWarehouse.com.au before for washing machine and dishwasher parts, and other hard-to-get stuff. They're fantastic. Great prices (cheaper than the local authorised spares dealer), quick delivery - just all round a professional outlet.
Cheers,
Matto :)
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Consumer guarantees
Repairs and spare parts
Manufacturers or importers guarantee they will take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities (a place that can fix the consumer’s goods), for a reasonable time after purchase.
For example:
> A consumer drops his digital camera, which he bought new a year ago for $2000. He contacts the importer and asks where he can get it repaired. The importer advises they no longer supply parts for that model of camera. A reasonable consumer would expect a one-year-old camera to be repairable. The manufacturer has not taken reasonable steps to provide spare parts or facilities, so the importer must provide a remedy.
How much time is ‘reasonable’?
This will depend on the type of goods. For instance:
> it would be reasonable to expect that tyres for a new car will be available for many years after its purchase
> it may not be reasonable to expect that spare parts for an inexpensive children’s toy are available at all.
When the guarantee on repairs and spare parts does not apply
A manufacturer or importer does not have to meet the guarantee on repairs and spare parts if they advised the consumer in writing, at the time of purchase, that repair facilities and spare parts would not be available after a specified time.
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=how%20long%20are%20importer%20responsible%20for%20parts%20supply&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consumerlaw.gov.au%2Fcontent%2Fthe_acl%2Fdownloads%2Fconsumer_guarantees_guide.rtf&ei=SYq-UOyLM5GViQfDwYDIBQ&usg=AFQjCNFlvekHOuHR4mYpFEJxJ-piDwlOsg&cad=rja (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=how%20long%20are%20importer%20responsible%20for%20parts%20supply&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consumerlaw.gov.au%2Fcontent%2Fthe_acl%2Fdownloads%2Fconsumer_guarantees_guide.rtf&ei=SYq-UOyLM5GViQfDwYDIBQ&usg=AFQjCNFlvekHOuHR4mYpFEJxJ-piDwlOsg&cad=rja)
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The guy from Choice on the radio the other day (so check before going any further) said that warranty repairs are not just limited to the period specified by the vendor, but is also based on a reasonable period of service.
Using the $2000 camera example what he was saying is that if it came with a 12 month warranty and broke down after 14 months this should still be covered under warranty.
As I said, check the actual facts as this was a radio interview and it was my understanding of the interview.
Bunyip
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I haven't heard back from the agent yet.
I might call the tradie myself.
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Another search on the web revealed that the units are still being sold in Melbourne!
Meaning that spare parts should be available.
And even worse. The warranty on this units are 5 years, not 12 months.
I have send another email to my agent in Melbourne with the request to follow up.
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I would start by getting a second opinion, sometimes things can be over looked.
Just a thought
Cheers
Craig
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looks like it's 2nd opinion time WilSurf
A question for you...did the agency have on file a list of the goods supplied with the property such as handbooks, warranty details and approved repairers. you know, aircon, dishwasher, hot water etc (I always supplied a fresh copy of a users guide for new tenants)
BTW I used to be a property manager and we were expected to be experts on all things from law to electronics to landscaping (I drew the line on swimming pools!) So if a "specialist" says the a/c is cactus then they have to take that on board
But.... if any of my contractiors were caught out doing the wrong thing by the agency or landlords they were asked to make good or got brushed immediately (and then forced to make good). I went through quite a few till I had a team that did the job right and I took them with me wherever I worked almost as a condition of employment.
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Our real estate agent has all manuals etc from the property and provide the tenant with a copy.
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Buy em a couple a fans. Pussies in melbourne wouldnt know what hot was :cheers:
Bite me Dazzler! It got to 21 degrees here the other day - now if that's not hot I don't know what is!
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Only 37 yesterday in Perth.
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It only got to 39.6 last Thursday in Melbourne. The pussies here got pretty hot :-*
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Bite me Dazzler! It got to 21 degrees here the other day - now if that's not hot I don't know what is!
pffft - snow fallen up the road from me - heat wave :cheers:
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Reply from our agent:
The trade has investigated thoroughly including being in contact with the original distributer. The system was a special that was only sold in Australia by Retrovision who have now gone into liquidation, and all products that were still with Retrovision were auctioned off to places such as this, the product is no longer being made from my understanding and this is existing stock which is being flogged off to the market.
As he has advised he is not prepared to source parts off EBAY nor off an un reputable trade. He has actually thoroughly looked into this and spent considerable time in trying to source the part with no additional cost to you.
It looks like it will be a new unit. :-(
But according the ATO a repair is tax deductable so I get something back from the total cost.
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A new unit will not be a repair so it is not an immediate deduction,
The new unit including the install costs will need to be depreciated over a number of years, this will depend on how you have setup the assets for tax purposes.
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The existing one has to be repaired, but can't so it is like a repair.
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The existing one can be totally written off in accordance with your existing depreciation schedule to provide the deduction. The new unit must be taken into account by your accountant and will be depreciated in the method that you have adopted. Really its not a win and its not a lose situation from a tax perspective.
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a good poin tNomad, many landlords don't have a depretiation schedule, you got onw of those Mr Wilsurf?
very important especially with a new property
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Yep, we have that in place.
Does this mean that it has to be re-evaluated?
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Nah you should just be able to add it to the schedule.
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Yep, we have that in place.
Does this mean that it has to be re-evaluated?
I had a "Property Depreciation Schedule" done which outlines a 10 year depreciation schedule (found stuff I would never have considered - so good value). I understand that if I make changes to this I need to have the schedule revised to include any new assets and conclude any asset write-offs.
I assume the cost for this would be minimal but as I have never had to do it I cannot be sure. I am sure it is a minor job for the person who prepared the schedule. The cost would be an immediate deduction of course.
If you handled the initial setup of the schedule yourself it should be easy to write off the old unit and include the new unit next time you do your tax (or your accountant does)
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It was done by Deppro, a company specialised in this.
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Young People today dont know how lucky theu really are ,,,,,,,,,,,,,When l was a young bloke >:D
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Young People today dont know how lucky theu really are ,,,,,,,,,,,,,When l was a young bloke >:D
Thanks mate, feeling young now. 8)
Desicion has been made to replace the unit with a new one.
End of story, I hope.
Thanks everyone for reading and commenting.