MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: achjimmy on November 27, 2012, 07:42:51 AM
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What's the consensus on the number of spares carried?
Looking at rear bar and wheel carrier options. As they are not easily changed over on modern rear bars (and cost a fortune) really need to make up your mind what combo to choose. I would have said 2x wheels, but thinking more about it for 90% of my travelling and four wheel driving a single spare is adequate and the Jerry would be handy for washing hands, boiling billy etc. and roof mount the 2nd if and when required. Of course if you carried a tinny or something it's going to be hard.
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i don't know if it is as relevent on a Pajero,Patrol, Cruiser etc, but i was told only one wheel on the back of a dual cab due to the extra strain it puts on your sub-frame
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I run one of each. If i need another spare for a long trip it can go on the roof rack or camper rack. In the other arm I can carry 2 gerry cans, i have one with water in it all the time and the other is usually empty. The water is great for washing the hands quickly or topping up the radiator. I have a small tap on the water gerry so you don't have to lift it out of the carrier. On longer trips I carry an extra gerry full of diesel and decant it when possible to minimise the weight.
The mounts on the Patrol are fairly strong and i am not worried about the weight when fully loaded, two full gerry's would as heavy as a spare i would guess
GG
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If you have the standard tank of 88 litres then I would think that an exterior jerry can for fuel would be useful. Personally I don't like putting fuel inside the vehicle.
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I agree with GGPatrol, one spare and dual jerrys on the other
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how many times have you been away and needed 1 spare let alone 2?
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Was telling a mate just the other day that I was thinking of getting jerry holder for the back of the Patrol at a cost of $900+ odd. The second spare can go on the roof when I need to take it with me.
His reaction:
"That's bl@@dy expensive water!"
Hmmmmmm.
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Do you really need a rear wheel carrier? I wanted one, and now have one but it's a PITA. It used to be so easy to get into the back of the Cruiser, but now I have to unlatch the wheel, swing it away, then open the top section, and closing it again...
It seems small but it is much less convenient.
That said, in answer to your question I would put a jerry can holder on the other side.
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I guess the other thing you have to think about is how much trouble and back breaking effort is it to put a spare wheel on the roof rack I know for me it's a right pain and struggle lifting it up and down on the prado so if I was getting 1 it would be dual wheel carrier
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i blew a tyre 150kms into a long distance section between help on my last trip and wished i had a second. I turned around and got it fixed, but yeah waste of time etc. That being said, i need the water more than the juice, so my new upgraded van has been ordered with a second tank
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I have both. Second spare can go on the rear or take it off and dual jerry goes on for water now that we vehicle camp.....Swap back and forth as required.....The Jerry can holder is far more handy......
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When out and about I also put my recovery bag in the empty gerry can spot, that way its easy to get to when needed in a hurry
GG
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Thanks all, Fessing up this is not for the Paj but for the "nek" vehicle I am currently considering.
It’s all pretty much along my thinking too, Jules I agree I reckon it would be a right royal pain at times but I just Really fancy the 180litre sub tank and the spare will no longer go underneath. Teabag having both is a great option but on the 200 it’s not as easy to change arms, I did want to go look at an arm as I thought maybe I could make a Jerry box to attach to a wheel carrier arm so it could be both?
The idea of being able to have one Jerry and your recovery kit there is great, so maybe a custom box to mount on the second wheel carrier arm would be the go?
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any rear bar adds a Shit load of unnecessary weight.
as for putting your spare on the roof, **** that in 35 degrees (or rain or anytime really )after having just changed a flat...
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I don't have to change arms. The dual Jerry holder just bolts onto the stud patern of where the wheel would normally go. 3 bolts and we are done.......
Thanks all, Fessing up this is not for the Paj but for the "nek" vehicle I am currently considering.
It’s all pretty much along my thinking too, Jules I agree I reckon it would be a right royal pain at times but I just Really fancy the 180litre sub tank and the spare will no longer go underneath. Teabag having both is a great option but on the 200 it’s not as easy to change arms, I did want to go look at an arm as I thought maybe I could make a Jerry box to attach to a wheel carrier arm so it could be both?
The idea of being able to have one Jerry and your recovery kit there is great, so maybe a custom box to mount on the second wheel carrier arm would be the go?
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any rear bar adds a **** load of unnecessary weight.
I weighed all the stuff I took off mine when I fitted a Kaymar. I reckon the bar itself doesn't add too much weight, but all the stuff that hangs off it adds up.
The original Nissan rear bar and tow bar = 29kg (lots of bits and pieces)
The Kaymar rear bar incl tow bar (but no carriers) = 62kg
I'm happy to carry the extra weight, especially when I get hit from behind on the freeway, or I back into a bollard at Bunnings :-[, and it's better than leaving all the Tupperware and tail lights on the track........
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I don't have to change arms. The dual Jerry holder just bolts onto the stud patern of where the wheel would normally go. 3 bolts and we are done.......
Thanks Teabag is that a "kaymar" thing? are there photos in your Patrol thread?
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Thanks Teabag is that a "kaymar" thing? are there photos in your Patrol thread?
No, Opposite Lock rear bar but the Jerry can holder is by Powerful 4x4.......
http://store.powerful4x4.com.au/dual-jerry-can-holder/ (http://store.powerful4x4.com.au/dual-jerry-can-holder/)
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I weighed all the stuff I took off mine when I fitted a Kaymar. I reckon the bar itself doesn't add too much weight, but all the stuff that hangs off it adds up.
The original Nissan rear bar and tow bar = 29kg (lots of bits and pieces)
The Kaymar rear bar incl tow bar (but no carriers) = 62kg
I'm happy to carry the extra weight, especially when I get hit from behind on the freeway, or I back into a bollard at Bunnings :-[, and it's better than leaving all the Tupperware and tail lights on the track........
I reckon thats a fair difference... specially on a 200 that dont they have weight issues already?
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We have just installed a powerful 4x4 dual wheel carrier with the gerry can option. Pleased as punch with product. It fitted straight up no problems. Originally I thought i could feel the extra weight when we put it on, but I think it weighed out with the new steel bull bar with winch that we also had fitted recently.
We are anticipating doing the springs sometime soon, as the replacement springs have been on the nissan for a fair few years now, many gymkanas and horse sports behind them, not to mention cape trip, numerous camping trips and off road adventures.
Makes the Nissan look good and our friends are impressed too. They just bought a brand new nissan, now they have to keep up with the bakers ;D cheers rellbell
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I've got a twin wheel carrier on my 80 and its been there for about 5 years now... Sometimes I wish I had put a jerry can holder on instead of a second tyre.. Just get more use with having a jerry can, if its water or fuel..
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I weighed all the stuff I took off mine when I fitted a Kaymar. I reckon the bar itself doesn't add too much weight, but all the stuff that hangs off it adds up.
The original Nissan rear bar and tow bar = 29kg (lots of bits and pieces)
The Kaymar rear bar incl tow bar (but no carriers) = 62kg
I'm happy to carry the extra weight, especially when I get hit from behind on the freeway, or I back into a bollard at Bunnings :-[, and it's better than leaving all the Tupperware and tail lights on the track........
Good that you have actually weighed things - many, if not most, people don't!
But it's much better to carry equipment low and within the vehicle wheelbase
Any weight carried by the rear of the vehicle reduces the towball down-load specification, too
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But it's much better to carry equipment low and within the vehicle wheelbase
Agreed, but not always easy with a wagon......
Any weight carried by the rear of the vehicle reduces the towball down-load specification, too
Still got plenty up my sleeve......the camper puts 160kg on the rear of the car......
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I'm happy to carry the extra weight, especially when I get hit from behind on the freeway,
Bit off track but it actually makes your survivability less as the impact is forced into the chassis rails rather than the body absorbing it.
cheers
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I reckon thats a fair difference... specially on a 200 that dont they have weight issues already?
Yeah they do but at least you can do something about it (GVM upgrade). Most modern 4x4 have a problem with GVM, IIRC the Patrol is bad too espicially the TI model, actually i think there was a post a while ago where the Pajero has one off the best of the bunch ;-)
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If you install one of these;
http://thelongranger.com.au/4wdfueltanks.html (http://thelongranger.com.au/4wdfueltanks.html)
and buy one of these;
http://www.tyrepliers.com.au/New/products.html (http://www.tyrepliers.com.au/New/products.html)
and some inner tubes to fit your tow vehicle and trailer you will save weight, can carry waaaaay more fuel and can keep both on the road.
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If you install one of these;
http://thelongranger.com.au/4wdfueltanks.html (http://thelongranger.com.au/4wdfueltanks.html)
and buy one of these;
http://www.tyrepliers.com.au/New/products.html (http://www.tyrepliers.com.au/New/products.html)
and some inner tubes to fit your tow vehicle and trailer you will save weight, can carry waaaaay more fuel and can keep both on the road.
I have both of the above also........hmmmmmm........To many gadgets.......:-)
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Yeah they do but at least you can do something about it (GVM upgrade). Most modern 4x4 have a problem with GVM, IIRC the Patrol is bad too espicially the TI model, actually i think there was a post a while ago where the Pajero has one off the best of the bunch ;-)
Not many 4WDs have a problem with GVM, the 'problem' is owners expecting too much of the vehicle they have chosen to buy, and/or then throwing catalogues' worth of heavy hardware such as steel carriers for carrying an extra tyre ;)
GVM upgrade may sort out the 'legalities' for insurance purposes but does nothing to prevent heavy accessories taking its toll on a vehicle's chassis rails, clutches/trans and wheel bearings
HTH
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Sorry GT I disagree when 7 seat 4bs capable of carrying a 150 litres of fuel fitted with manufacturers approved optioned bullbars, winches and towbars designed to take 300kg download are sold with <700kg payload the problem is the manufacturers. I don't see the manufacturers plastering the vehicle with warning stickers? That's because it would affect sales. Yes we have a responsibility to address this, hence the GVM upgrades we can get. But really what a joke, pay Lovell or ARB a riduclous sum and few springs later the 4b is fit for another 500kg!!
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well, I reckon the problem is with people getting all excited about buying a new 4WD and 'Living the Dream' and spending $20,000 at the 4WD shop and yet not doing some simple Year 5-grade maths homework with regard to what is listed in the vehicle specifications... weight is weight and there is alimit to what a vehicle is designed to carry.
It's all there written down in black and white, by law/regulation.
It's especially bad with newcomers to camping/travelling who think buying equipment is like 'buying' expertise and experience. The consequences are often broken vehicles, broken dreams, no warranty and a huuuge towing and repair bill
FWIW my GT campers carry weight 'warning' stickers. As far as I am aware I am the only manufacturer - car or trailer/caravan - to do this but I feel it is important as a guide for my customers
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well, I reckon the problem is with people getting all excited about buying a new 4WD and 'Living the Dream' and spending $20,000 at the 4WD shop and yet not doing some simple Year 5-grade maths homework with regard to what is listed in the vehicle specifications... weight is weight and there is alimit to what a vehicle is designed to carry.
what like this http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26576.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26576.0)
towball weights are overrated
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/cremo1/howmuchweight-1.jpg)
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There is no doubt owners need to take some responsibility but as I listed above the manufacturers and aftermarket companies are complicit. By the nature of there business they Are "experts" in that field and that makes them responsible under law. As I pilot Iam well aware of loads and balances and the training that's given in that area, drivers don't get that. Try talking to my wife or joe average about GVM etc etc and they have no idea, she just says Toyota sell them with towbars! As I mentioned above a 200 can go over the GVM just as Toyota supply it out of the showroom floor with full tanks and a load of people! So I reckon they have some ownership in this.
And that's not to say I agree with the ridiculous laws we have today that make people reponisable for nothing it just that manufacturers need to be more responsible. Raise the GVm or limit the seating.
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we're on the same path but my point is: It's up to owners/operators to comply with manufacturers' maximum loads. If someone wants to overload a vehicle due to ignorance/stupidity or arrogance, that's an owner/operator probem NOT the manufacturers'.
Manufacturers have clearly published limits - websites, sales documents and owners manuals. It's usually not too far from Power and Torque outputs which everyone seems to find easily... Yep, for the 200 series, too ;)
Accesories, fuel and and people are loads.
Unfortunately consumer/buyer behaviour is to try 'live the dream' rather than 'buy the reality' and it is only experiecne (often hard-won and expensive experience!) that changes this common trait of human nature.
Every few weeks, it seems, there is someone on here and other web forums bleating about a broken chassis or suspension and saying 'Oh, but I thought my Mighty Boy could carry 4.4 tonnes... after all, it is a ute and it should carry a load... ' Or, 'But the salesman sold it to me, surely it's OK... sob, sob'
Lost - yep that Rodeo/fifth wheeler link (and Commodore pic) is a great example. Ol' Mate probably bought the fifth wheeler on size to impress his mates, and the ute on price because he over-spent on the rig.
Year 5 maths... easy.