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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: fuji on July 09, 2012, 06:38:30 PM
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I hope this doesn't offend anyone as it is not the intention to do so.
Bring on the Basics Card!
WYNO
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And next will be food stamps and a cheque written directly to your real estate pfft...
Some people may be dole bludgers drinking or smoking their money away but some are genuinely looking for work or old age pensioners, or disabled etc. I just recently went on the dole as my work cut our hours back from 38 5 days a week to 16 2 days a week which I can not live on obviously. ATM I am struggling to find a permanant job and have resorted to temping all over Sydney at stuff all notice and only get work now and then there. I have 3 kids, plenty of bills etc and am far from being a bludger but who knows whether I will be working tomorrow, next week or next month with this agency bullShit. All I know is I don't want to line up in a single file line because the grocery shop only has the 1 basics card ATM machine and be made to feel like a bigger piece of Shit then I already do. Give me a 38+ hr a week job any day, this dole stuff is shyte!!!
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I reckon things like the Basics Card will always be targeted at particular groups rather than imposed blanket style across all recipients of benefits.
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Hi Wayne
I must agree with you, but I can only speak for Aboriginal Communities. Most of the people here at Mulan, Balgo and Billiluna have Basics Cards, and they are more than happy with it. The children are getting properly fed and clothed, and the people have access to fuel and other items, but not smokes, grog or pornographic materials.
On the Basics Card they can tell Centrelink how much they want from their pension or dole put into the card, and the rest goes into their standard savings account, and there is a lot of people here who get all but $50-00 into their Basic Card, and they find they have all they need.
I do not think if people are sensible they should be forced to have it, but people with drinking or gambling problems, whom use more than can afford, meaning less food on the table, then yes, put them on the Basic Card. My wife actually chose to have one, so that her family could not pester her for money...they would not dare ask me for they know my favourite answer is "No, get a damned job".
I understand UR-50-LO comments, and I feel for them, as apparently work is getting hard to find in the cities. Here in the Kimberley and over in the Alice, about the only qualification you need is being able to read and write, there is so much work and so few workers.
Regards
Tjupurula
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Basics Card will not suit all but at least it will cover the staples in life. And put the baby bonus on it also and while at it, the weekly/monthly payments made buy separated parents to look after ( feed, clothe, and shelter their children) so the money is not spent on alcohol/smokes and plasma TVs ! Been involved in the last one
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I reckon things like the Basics Card will always be targeted at particular groups rather than imposed blanket style across all recipients of benefits.
Big Jules, I think originally the Basic Card system was meant for Aboriginal Communities, becauser of the chronic gambling and drinking, fighting and all the rest of it. The Basic Card system is now something the majority of the people like, as it means they can live better. I know of several families where the man constantly bashed the woman for the money, now it doesn't happen because the wife doesn't have the money, it is that simple. People like me do not have to step in at horrid hours stopping a drunk mongrel from belting his wife, and if that comment is not politically correct, I don't care. I have not had to patch anyone up after being battered for nearly 2 years, and that is because the people know the money is simply not there to get.
Tjupurula
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I just recently went on the dole as my work cut our hours back from 38 5 days a week to 16 2 days a week which I can not live on obviously
That's still a bloody long week mate... Sorry couldn't help myself. Seriously though UR-50-LO, I hope something turns up soon. I've been there before & like you absolutely hated it. The problem with welfare is that it is the minority that make it difficult for the rest of us. I think such a system should be reserved solely for those who are proven to be mismanaging such welfare payments.
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Richard.
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I have been on the dole and I know what its like, it is aimed at people who dont look for work and just want taxpayers to pay their way. I see them every day hanging around drinking beer and smoking. We have a housing commision area where I work and nothing ever changes. If they are genuine they have no worries. Not like the goose on t.v. who threatened war if they bring it in. LOL
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Sales in Woodstock Bourbon would go down if the brought in the basics card...
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Sales in Woodstock Bourbon would go down if the brought in the basics card...
LOL
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Great info Tjupurula... agree totally with you from experiences in the communities around the George Gill Range. Bring it on I say!
Sue
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targeted at particular groups rather than imposed blanket style
It does seem to have been effective in helping some folks who can't help themselves. I am pleased to hear those first hand accounts.
In NSW there has been a trial announced in some urban centres, aimed at areas of welfare fraud.
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I guess it is similar to the alcohol ban in the NT. however people drive hundreds of kms to try and beat the ban.
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I guess it is similar to the alcohol ban in the NT. however people drive hundreds of kms to try and beat the ban.
What alcohol ban in the NT Wayne. Anyone can actually buy as much grog as they want, it just requires photo identification to get it. They have a database which is connected to the police and the courts, and if anyone is done for an alcohol related offence, even drink driving, the Magistrate can impose a ban on that individiual. The photo identification is scanned at the alcohol outlets, and if the person is banned by the courts, then they cannot buy grog. There is no blanket ban as such.
Tjupurula
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I think it's a great idea
I work hard for my cash, hubby works hard for his. We pay more in tax than the average earner
I feel for those who are genuinely looking hard for work. But then i dont think they need to be embarrassed
I think these cards are directed at those who don't care to work.
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The alcohol ban in NT (well east arnhem land) is as Tjupurula said but also we have to ensure we get a permit first to buy takeaway alcohol. Also along with that means we can possess or consume liquor at home or the residence of other permit holders within the East Arnhem General Restricted
Area or those areas defined as exempt areas within East Arnhem Land.
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I think it's a great idea
I work hard for my cash, hubby works hard for his. We pay more in tax than the average earner
I feel for those who are genuinely looking hard for work. But then i dont think they need to be embarrassed
I think these cards are directed at those who don't care to work.
Hi Becboo
Your last comment there is a bit harsh. As I have previously said, the majority of people here (on social payments), receive them either because of their age, or the fact they have young children at home. 99.9% of the others, of working age, are working. In the communities they can only earn, for the most part, about $300 a week, and that in very remote areas is almost a non existent wage. The program they work under is parallel with "working for the dole", and they all do as many hours as they are legally allowed to, under the CDEP (Community Development Employment Project) Grant. Many of them supplement their pay with art and the like, but they are existing on the bare bones, not much else.
The cards were originally directed at those with gambling and drinking problems, which meant the kids were not getting enough to eat.
Regards
Tjupurula
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I like some of the comments on the TV, like "its my money and I will spend it how I want", but is it their money, or is it the tax payers and should we as the tax payer have the right to know its being spent wisely, I think so, what do you think. ???
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What alcohol ban in the NT Wayne. Anyone can actually buy as much grog as they want, it just requires photo identification to get it. They have a database which is connected to the police and the courts, and if anyone is done for an alcohol related offence, even drink driving, the Magistrate can impose a ban on that individiual. The photo identification is scanned at the alcohol outlets, and if the person is banned by the courts, then they cannot buy grog. There is no blanket ban as such.
Tjupurula
Thats the one, I think we need it everywhere providing it works. Can they go across the border into W.A. And buy grog?
Wayne
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I like some of the comments on the TV, like "its my money and I will spend it how I want", but is it their money, or is it the tax payers and should we as the tax payer have the right to know its being spent wisely, I think so, what do you think. ???
Couldn't put it better myself. X1000000000000
I dont think there is a work for the dole program in Victoria at least. If there is, there are alot of people working by walking around doing nothing. I love debates
Wayne
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Sales in Woodstock Bourbon would go down if the brought in the basics card...
Allready happened, that was the alco pops tax, it was $39 for a carton of 440ml cans pre-tax.
I still remember customers complaining,,,,
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Thats the one, I think we need it everywhere providing it works. Can they go across the border into W.A. And buy grog?
Wayne
Yes Wayne, they could go across the border to buy grog, but where. In Kununurra there are restrictions, only 1 caron of beer and one bottle of spirits. In Halls Creek and Fitzroy Crossing there is only light beer, no spirits, and the only other alternative is Broome. A heck of a long way to travel for grog from the territory, probably not financially viable.
Regards
Tjupurula
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Hi Becboo
Your last comment there is a bit harsh. As I have previously said, the majority of people here (on social payments), receive them either because of their age, or the fact they have young children at home. 99.9% of the others, of working age, are working. In the communities they can only earn, for the most part, about $300 a week, and that in very remote areas is almost a non existent wage. The program they work under is parallel with "working for the dole", and they all do as many hours as they are legally allowed to, under the CDEP (Community Development Employment Project) Grant. Many of them supplement their pay with art and the like, but they are existing on the bare bones, not much else.
The cards were originally directed at those with gambling and drinking problems, which meant the kids were not getting enough to eat.
Regards
Tjupurula
I apologise to you Tjupurula if you are offended. I didn't mean to offend you.
I do personally know people who are bludgers unfortunately. I see how they spend their money.
I am glad it works in your community. It is good to hear the good points of the cards. Some people need the help of others and it affects us all as we are one big community.
Cheers
Becboo
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I apologise to you Tjupurula if you are offended. I didn't mean to offend you.
I do personally know people who are bludgers unfortunately. I see how they spend their money.
I am glad it works in your community. It is good to hear the good points of the cards. Some people need the help of others and it affects us all as we are one big community.
Cheers
Becboo
X100000
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I apologise to you Tjupurula if you are offended. I didn't mean to offend you.
I do personally know people who are bludgers unfortunately. I see how they spend their money.
I am glad it works in your community. It is good to hear the good points of the cards. Some people need the help of others and it affects us all as we are one big community.
Cheers
Becboo
Hi Becboo
No, I wasn't offended, I just had no choice but to take a defensive stance for some of my family and relatives here. The Walmajarri and Kukutja people here are only one and a half generations from being nomads. Many ofthe people here around my age (not me) were Nomads until about 30 years ago, walking around the desert still hunting and gathering food, and making daily shelters and fires from the cold. They do not have the same skills as the majority of people, and have no knowledge at all of "budgeting", and trhe same goes for many tribal people in desert areas. Most people here have never seen a big city, though my wife and I have been to Alice Springs and Broome (both are too big for us).
I have never received any money from the Government, even working to get myself through University in the 80's and through Trade School over 30 years ago as well. When I was unemployed, I walked around Fitxroy Crossing and sometimes Halls Creek all night, picking up aluminium cans and taking them to a recycling point, made a good living doing that.
All in all my point is that the Basic Cards may have a been a control method introduced by the government, but the people found that it has allowed them to make sure they have the necessary funds to get the daily staples. Basic Cards have dramatically reduced the drinking and gambling, and a very positive spin off from that is the violence (domestic) has also dramatically dissipated.
Many people have mentioned the "dole bludgers" in towns and the like. I cannot and should not comment about such people, as I have not seen what others have seen. I know for a fact that Wayne (WYNO) is not judgemental, and sincerely cares about people, he would not raise such an issue without the valid reasons he has mentioned in the thread.
Regards
Tjupurula
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This thread was purely intended at people who bludge off the system which is common in towns or cities. I was in no way having a go at your people Tjupurula as you have indicated. The aboriginals have enough troubles without having white peiple stick their noses in except for those who go to help. You Tjupurula are truly inspirational, to do what you have done. To help those in need and helping the young ones in trades. I wish I met you Thirty years ago. The people or oxygen thiefs are thenones who need the Basic card. Quote "Its our money," unquote. It's your money when you contribute to society not bludge off them.
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x2 bring on the card.
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Won't this card also promote further crime though?
I mean if junkies can't get cash from centrelink to support their habit they will have to do a break and enter or something for their next fix. Granted most already do that now but they may have to do 2 or 3 times as many homes in the future with the introduction of this card. I reckon there will be a few negatives that will effect society in general whether your a bludger or not if this is implemented. It's ok to say your a tax payer etc but when your house gets robbed while your kids are home asleep by some filthy HIV infected junkie because he can't buy his drugs with a plastic "basics card", I'd have to say that would effect the hard working people too.
Anyway I'd hate to be on the dole and run out of milk for breakfast. Stuffed if I'd want to line up in the "povo or bludgers" line and scan a Centrelink card for a mere 2 litre milk lol...
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Point taken
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I think these cards are directed at those who don't care to work.
... and theres 10s of thousands of them around with the welfare system down to a T... infact most have more idea on the rules than the centerlink staff.
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... and theres 10s of thousands of them around with the welfare system down to a T... infact most have more idea on the rules than the centerlink staff.
Yes they do.
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Won't this card also promote further crime though?
I mean if junkies can't get cash from centrelink to support their habit they will have to do a break and enter or something for their next fix. Granted most already do that now but they may have to do 2 or 3 times as many homes in the future with the introduction of this card. I reckon there will be a few negatives that will effect society in general whether your a bludger or not if this is implemented. It's ok to say your a tax payer etc but when your house gets robbed while your kids are home asleep by some filthy HIV infected junkie because he can't buy his drugs with a plastic "basics card", I'd have to say that would effect the hard working people too.
Anyway I'd hate to be on the dole and run out of milk for breakfast. Stuffed if I'd want to line up in the "povo or bludgers" line and scan a Centrelink card for a mere 2 litre milk lol...
solution
(http://blogs.attask.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/screen_shot_2011_02_17_at_2_29_42_pm.png)
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I suspect there will be a few "enterprising" individuals round my way offering to buy my groceries for me in return for me buying their booze, and of course, there will be those that get "stolen"
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Hi Becboo
No, I wasn't offended, I just had no choice but to take a defensive stance for some of my family and relatives here.
Regards
Tjupurula
I am sorry you felt you needed to take a defensive stance Tjupurula.
Please know that I was speaking of my own experience with white people I know who do need help as it is a vicious circle. Maybe the basics card can help them to learn to budget.
Cheers
Becboo
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I had a stand up argument whith a bloke I have known all my life he and his brother have never worked, acrook back,cant read cant do anything except work for furniture removolists on the sly.
I told them they were nothing but bludgers and parasites and wernt entiteled to any tax payers dollars, I worked and payed taxes since I was 15 they thought it was a big joke and said I was stupid for doing it.
Theres thousands of the free loading mongrels just like them who should at the most be given a basic card and if they abuse it give em stuffall.
Have a nice day
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35c from every tax dollar goes to welfare.
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Ummm.....at the risk of sounding ignorant, or being accused of living under a rock, could someone please explain to me what a "Basics Card" is. From all your comments, I'm assuming it is a card issued to those on welfare to allow them to purchase basic living items eg. bread, milk etc. I have never heard of it and please correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers
Matt
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Ummm.....at the risk of sounding ignorant, or being accused of living under a rock, could someone please explain to me what a "Basics Card" is. From all your comments, I'm assuming it is a card issued to those on welfare to allow them to purchase basic living items eg. bread, milk etc. I have never heard of it and please correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers
Matt
Hi Matt
What you have said is correct. It allows for the basics in life to be purchased, so that welfare monies are not wasted on gorg, drugs and other unnecessary things.
Tjupurula
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Yep, that right. The use of them has just been extended into some so called "low socio economic status " areas, parts of Sydney, Shepparton, etc.
Initially, via the choice of the user on welfare, not, like in NT, to all users in a specific area.
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This thread was purely intended at people who bludge off the system which is common in towns or cities. I was in no way having a go at your people Tjupurula as you have indicated. The aboriginals have enough troubles without having white peiple stick their noses in except for those who go to help. You Tjupurula are truly inspirational, to do what you have done. To help those in need and helping the young ones in trades. I wish I met you Thirty years ago. The people or oxygen thiefs are thenones who need the Basic card. Quote "Its our money," unquote. It's your money when you contribute to society not bludge off them.
No Wayne, I am not inspirational.....the people who manage to survive on almost nothing, and still do not break the law by stealing or the like, they are inspirational, and it will always be my privilege to put a helping hand out for them. I get the young ones involved in trades and the like, or teach them my trade, but they still must do the work and studies to learn what they need to know. Their choice to apply themselves and succeed have my full respect.
Regards
Tjupurula
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Hi Matt
What you have said is correct. It allows for the basics in life to be purchased, so that welfare monies are not wasted on gorg, drugs and other unnecessary things.
Tjupurula
I can't see this as being anything but a good thing.
I watched a woman in Coles one night, her kid wanted some oranges, she said "can't afford them", then went off to the smoke counter and bought a carton......I wanted to slap her.
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Hi Matt
What you have said is correct. It allows for the basics in life to be purchased, so that welfare monies are not wasted on gorg, drugs and other unnecessary things.
Tjupurula
Thanks for clarifying Tjupurula. I consider myself fortunate to have been in steady employment for over 20 years now. I realize many are not so lucky, some through circumstance, others, unfortunately, by choice. So on the face of it, this card sounds like a good idea to me.Yep, that right. The use of them has just been extended into some so called "low socio economic status " areas, parts of Sydney, Shepparton, etc.
Initially, via the choice of the user on welfare, not, like in NT, to all users in a specific area.
So it is enforced in some areas then?
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I can't see this as being anything but a good thing.
I watched a woman in Coles one night, her kid wanted some oranges, she said "can't afford them", then went off to the smoke counter and bought a carton......I wanted to slap her.
On the Basics Card smokes cannot be bought. By the way, you wanted to slap her. I have been in Alice Springs and seen teh same thing. The difefrence is I did get stuck into the people (not physically, but verbally) then I bought the kids some fruit and fruit juice. I will not discuss what I did in the carpark afterwards, suffice to say those parents (drunken black mongrels) were sorry they ever met me (a sober black mongrel). They could not come out with the crap racist argument either, and a policeman nearby (who happens to know me) walked away.
Regards
Tjupurula
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I had a stand up argument whith a bloke I have known all my life he and his brother have never worked, acrook back,cant read cant do anything except work for furniture removolists on the sly.
I told them they were nothing but bludgers and parasites and wernt entiteled to any tax payers dollars, I worked and payed taxes since I was 15 they thought it was a big joke and said I was stupid for doing it.
Theres thousands of the free loading mongrels just like them who should at the most be given a basic card and if they abuse it give em stuffall.
Have a nice day
Thank you!!
That is who I was talking about !!
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Thank you!!
That is who I was talking about !!
Please accept my apologies Becboo, I did not intend to have a go at you, I did come across a bit strong for which I am sorry.
Tjupurula
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Please accept my apologies Becboo, I did not intend to have a go at you, I did come across a bit strong for which I am sorry.
Tjupurula
Hi Tjupurula.
Wouldn't we have some awesome conversations. That is what I have taken from this thread!! Cheers to you and yours mate. I have certainly enjoyed this thread with you.
Cheers
Becboo
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Hi Tjupurula.
Wouldn't we have some awesome conversations. That is what I have taken from this thread!! Cheers to you and yours mate. I have certainly enjoyed this thread with you.
Cheers
Becboo
Group hug everyone!
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This thread has become a bit too touchy, feely, goody for me ??? I'm going back to the electrical section >:D
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Group hug everyone!
No thanks Wayne, never know where you police have been or who you have had to handle, Becboo, depending on what my wife says and your husband says, that I would think about (only joking).
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This thread has become a bit too touchy, feely, goody for me ??? I'm going back to the electrical section >:D
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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No thanks Wayne, never know where you police have been or who you have had to handle, Becboo, depending on what my wife says and your husband says, that I would think about (only joking).
You're joking I don't touch people I get the young uns to do it. Ha ha
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I just saw the report on the card on Today Tonight. I was seriously pmsl at the characters they interviewed. I got to say I can't stand the civil lib social worker and her attitude. It is certainly an interesting debate and it sounds like the overwhelming majority of taxpayers support it.
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I just saw the report on the card on Today Tonight. I was seriously pmsl at the characters they interviewed. I got to say I can't stand the civil lib social worker and her attitude. It is certainly an interesting debate and it sounds like the overwhelming majority of taxpayers support it.
I have never owned or watched a television Paul, but I can say that (speaking for my people only), only people who are on welfare payments have experienced the advantages of having a Basic card, they actually feel happy using it. To explain this comment, you would need to go back to the comments I made about how some of the women used to be treated, as opposed to how they are treated now, there is an incredible difference, and it is better now for them. I have not ime for the civil liberties people, it would be nice if they would walk on the ground in aboriginal communities before they start talking about such communities.
Tjupurula
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You're joking I don't touch people I get the young uns to do it. Ha ha
Sorry Old Fella, my mistake.... ;D ;D ;D and one for you :police:
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Won't this card also promote further crime though?
I mean if junkies can't get cash from centrelink to support their habit they will have to do a break and enter or something for their next fix. Granted most already do that now but they may have to do 2 or 3 times as many homes in the future with the introduction of this card. I reckon there will be a few negatives that will effect society in general whether your a bludger or not if this is implemented. It's ok to say your a tax payer etc but when your house gets robbed while your kids are home asleep by some filthy HIV infected junkie because he can't buy his drugs with a plastic "basics card", I'd have to say that would effect the hard working people too.
Anyway I'd hate to be on the dole and run out of milk for breakfast. Stuffed if I'd want to line up in the "povo or bludgers" line and scan a Centrelink card for a mere 2 litre milk lol...
UR-50-LO
I guess unfortunately what you have said is a reality in the big cities, I am incapable of commentiung there. However the actual Basic Card goes through any normal EFTPOS in any shop, if they accept the Basic Card. The people here are not ashemed, as they feel comfortable with the fact that they can use such a card to guarantee their children get fed, clothed and have lunch for school. I would however doubt that these drug affected people can buy drugs with a normal ATM card either. That is one situation that I am glad we are not affected by.
Regards
Tjupurula