MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jason B on June 24, 2012, 11:02:26 AM
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Just reading another thread where a Jeep ended up on its side in a puddle with two kids straped into the back seat. I have thought about this scenario when doing water crossings on many occasions.
I have just returned from a Myswag sunny corner trip that involved lots of water crossings, none of them concerning in the least, however some times accidents can happen. I had my 7 and 4 year old girls with me, both sitting in the back and straped in.
If the water was deep or concerning, my thoughts are that I would have unstrapped them and either put them in the front with me or, just had them ready to go. I have even thought that in some situations (haven't been in one with them in the car yet) a life jacked may be worth considering.
What are other swaggers thoughts or practices in these situations, esspecially in the deep crossings, up north.
Regards
Jas
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Understandable question......
At a guess, belts off and windows down, for a quick exit maybe..
Cheers Ian.
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That's a tough call, I'd let a lead car go through to watch the line and see how easy/hard the crossing was. I probably wouldn't unstrap them as the initial roll over may cause them to slip out of the seat and hurt themselves. I am pretty anal about the car not moving until everyone is belted up. I have a seat belt cutter handy at all times. If there was any doubt I'd probably turn back. Another option is you could buy a pair of cheap waders and walk them over. You need to think about this for all 4wding not just river crossings. Remember the video of the Paj that took the wrong line reversing and went end over end.
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Well said D4, and if in doubt, walk it first if there is no one in front :cheers:
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I pretty much agree with D4D.
Dont forget the turn around option. It is a matter of assessing the risk versus gain. Recently on a club trip I chose to turn around rather than have a crack at a gnarly hill climb, primarily cause my son was only 6 weeks old and the perceived risk was too great for me. The rest of the club followed suit which was appreciated but not expected. We then had to reverse back down the hill and over the creek crossing, which was fun but held little risk.
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Have one of these at each exit point...
(http://www.fusiongear.com.au/images/lifehammer.jpg)
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That's a tough call, I'd let a lead car go through to watch the line and see how easy/hard the crossing was. I probably wouldn't unstrap them as the initial roll over may cause them to slip out of the seat and hurt themselves. I am pretty anal about the car not moving until everyone is belted up. I have a seat belt cutter handy at all times. If there was any doubt I'd probably turn back. Another option is you could buy a pair of cheap waders and walk them over. You need to think about this for all 4wding not just river crossings. Remember the video of the Paj that took the wrong line reversing and went end over end.
Agree totally D4D and do all that you have suggested (except if there was big lizards in the area) routinely. I have seen some accidents where people have mistakenly taken the wrong line or jumped up on a big boulder. So I am after the in vehicle steps that most take I guess.
Like you I am also anal about seatbelts being on at all times (which is really what led to my question - is this the right approach?). I need to get a proper seat belt cutter, as the knife (filleting knife) I keep for this purpose in the centre console is not very palatable with the :police: now days. Nor would it be ideal in the heat of the moment.
Regards
Jas
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I need to get a proper seat belt cutter
Maybe we could do a group buy of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ResQMe-Original-Life-Hammer-Emergency-Rescue-Tool-/280625307178 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ResQMe-Original-Life-Hammer-Emergency-Rescue-Tool-/280625307178)
Re what happens in car, you'd have to assess each situation on its merits. I don't but I should start having a grab bag of emergency gear like you do in a boat. Last thing you need is wet kids crying if it goes pear shaped. Grab the kids, grab the grab bag and get everyone to safety then go back and assess the recovery options.
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I leave the kids strapped in but make sure the rescue tool is in the map pocket. I have never really thought too much about it and really wouldnt hit anything too snarly with the kids on board but like you said you just never know. I would be keen to hear how other more experienced people out there do it.
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Agree.
It would be interesting to hear from anyone that has been in this position when it has gone pear shaped. What did you do?, What would you do differenty? How would you prepare in the future?
A grab bag would be a good idea D4D, one of those dry pack type bags with a few essentials including a small first aid kit, towels and a change of cloths maybe.
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Have one of these at each exit point...
(http://www.fusiongear.com.au/images/lifehammer.jpg)
Great idea.
Just bought 3 of these off eBay. One for each seat row in the Prado.
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All good points and the grab bag is must IMO. Do you remember the two blokes stranded in the outback last year after they flee'd their burning fourby. Didn't have a thing to survive with. It needs to be under your seat but secured so it can't become an issue while driving. Everything needs to be ascessed for the job or situation at hand. Like an extinguisher in the car they can save your life in a fire, but take your life in a rollover!
I acess every situation individually, and sometimes my seatbelt will be off. Although I do not consider myself an experienced four wheel driver I do think I have enough general experience and common sense. I learnt to fly many years ago and although I no longer fly the training, the checks and the general way you have to approach journeys gives you a completely different outlook IMO. from trip planing to constantly accessing what you may or should do if it goes tits up.
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a life jacked may be worth considering.
I would be very cautious about a lifejacket, if I was going to do go down this road it would be a manual inflating one as opposed to an auto inflating one. The last thing you want is for someone to be trapped against the roof of the car and are unable to swim down to get to an open window (worst case scenario I know). They could then inflate it on the surface. But if the water is that deep dont drive through it to start with.
Up at the cape we drove through some deep crossings, but we walked all of them first despite the perceived risk from the crocs (although there was that many vehicles around the noise would have scared them off) and for most of them my wife walked across too, and I carried our then 6 year old across the deeper ones, as they were on photo duties.
I think the key to it being done safely is walk across it first and if there is still any doubt dont go, particualalry if you are the only vehicle.
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Things can go wrong at anytime. I have 3 kids in car seats and despite my best preparations I have found the family in what I perceived as hairy situations.
Always spend time assessing and reassessing the risks. Never drive across a waterway unless you have walked it or witnessed another person or car cross it safely.
We discuss emergency situations and scenarios with the 5 and 7 yr olds.
Generally windows all down and drill everyone DON'T PANIC.
If you got bogged in a river and the water was deep enough for you to drown sitting up in your seats then you got serious problems. If your car rolled then that's another story. If you can't walk it then don't drive it - is my motto.
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No deeper than the neck of the shortest one
Not fast flowing
All passangers should be able to swim to some degree
If kids are to young to be able to undo their seatbelts and either open a door or wind down a window by themselves maybe put 1 adult in the front and 1 in the back with the kids for the harder stuff
The metal prongs in a seat headrest can also be used if a life hammer is not avalible
All in all asses the risk and maybe change your travel spots until your kids are a bit older
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Window-Glass-Seat-Safety-AUTO-Emergency-Life-Saving-Hammer-Belt-Cutter-Tool-/120889271348?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c258fe434 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Window-Glass-Seat-Safety-AUTO-Emergency-Life-Saving-Hammer-Belt-Cutter-Tool-/120889271348?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c258fe434)
very cheap insurance, just brought three
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If kids are to young to be able to undo their seatbelts and either open a door or wind down a window by themselves maybe put 1 adult in the front and 1 in the back with the kids for the harder stuff
The metal prongs in a seat headrest can also be used if a life hammer is not avalible
I like those ideas, you can't tell you're the OH&S guy :)
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I like those ideas :)
X 2
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Great idea.
Just bought 3 of these off eBay. One for each seat row in the Prado.
Just be sure the kids dont wave good bye to people with them....also watch out for the young rising rock stars playing the drums with them also
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Strap them both to the roof-rack ... they will have more clearance then your snorkel
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Strap them both to the roof-rack ... they will have more clearance then your snorkel
Happy to try it mate, but can I borrow yours for the trial run. 8)
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Happy to try it mate, but can I borrow yours for the trial run. 8)
By all means .... if you dont do the straps up too tight they also make for good look-outs for croc's on those deep crossings
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having been in the very situation i'll give you my point of view.
It was just me and the Kids as the wife was on photo duty.
I wont go into the details of how it happened again lets just say we were on our side in water.
Things that we did right.
1. Have windows OPEN. This sounds counter intuitive at first, but having elec. windows if the water was to cut the engine then the windows dont work and water would still be in the car.
2. Have kids belted in.
3. travel in a group.
Things I did wrong. (other than be in the situation)
1. Get too far away from help. I was probably 100 meters away from the others.
2. I didnt panic, but i didnt react either. By the time my mate was standing on the side of the car ripping the kids out I was still trying to drive out of it.
I'm pretty sure it wont happen that way again, but if we do get stuck, i'm hoping the experience has taught me a valuable lesson.(s)
cheers
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Just be sure the kids dont wave good bye to people with them....also watch out for the young rising rock stars playing the drums with them also
There will be very strict instructions on these things when they arrive next week (posted today they tell me) especially the teenagers...for them, read that as rules...
Each can have a swing at a piece of wood and cut an old tiedown I have, after that don't touch unless an emergency.
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Window-Glass-Seat-Safety-AUTO-Emergency-Life-Saving-Hammer-Belt-Cutter-Tool-/120889271348?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c258fe434 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Window-Glass-Seat-Safety-AUTO-Emergency-Life-Saving-Hammer-Belt-Cutter-Tool-/120889271348?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c258fe434)
very cheap insurance, just brought three
Same as the ones D4D posted a link to, but big difference in price.!
BHG
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Same as the ones D4D posted a link to, but big difference in price.!
My link is for people who buy Warn winches the other link is for people who buy Tigerz winches :)
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Warn are overpriced... Not everything is about how much it costs
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having been in the very situation i'll give you my point of view.
It was just me and the Kids as the wife was on photo duty.
I wont go into the details of how it happened again lets just say we were on our side in water.
Things that we did right.
1. Have windows OPEN. This sounds counter intuitive at first, but having elec. windows if the water was to cut the engine then the windows dont work and water would still be in the car.
2. Have kids belted in.
3. travel in a group.
Things I did wrong. (other than be in the situation)
1. Get too far away from help. I was probably 100 meters away from the others.
2. I didnt panic, but i didnt react either. By the time my mate was standing on the side of the car ripping the kids out I was still trying to drive out of it.
I'm pretty sure it wont happen that way again, but if we do get stuck, i'm hoping the experience has taught me a valuable lesson.(s)
cheers
Shit scary stuff hope you all got out ok, what was the vehicle?
trot
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Warn are overpriced
Depends who you know ;)
Not everything is about how much it costs
See above ;)
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I have a preference for no seatbelts as if things go pear shaped as I don't think there's enough time to get the harness belts off the kids. (think about getting your own belt off, partner doing the same, trying reaching around and release the kids clip or find your seat belt knife, cut the belt without injuring the kid, all while the car is sliding and water is rising)
My reasoning behind no seatbelts is;
* a water crossing will be done at low speed, enough to make a bow wave.
* if things went wrong and I wanted to bail it would probably be from a cross current about to sweep the car away.
* grab kid(s) by chest-clothing and take them with you through the front
Windows should be down, don't need to be all the way.
The biggest part would be, if the risk is high and there's no real need, I'd give it a miss anyway.
Awesome topic though
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The biggest part would be, if the risk is high and there's no real need, I'd give it a miss anyway.
x2 even without kids.
cheers
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Windows should be down, don't need to be all the way.
I'd prefer all the way down or up. Half way you have the risk of hitting something on the edge of the glass.
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My work recently put us through a advanced 4WD course, as part of the course the subject of water crossings came up.
Amongst other advice we were taught to have all belts off - for quick escape and no fiddling around with belt buckles under murky water, plus if the water is rising fast inside the vehicle you / kids will float up against the seat belt making it harder to undo.
We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.
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I have a preference for no seatbelts as if things go pear shaped as I don't think there's enough time to get the harness belts off the kids. (think about getting your own belt off, partner doing the same, trying reaching around and release the kids clip or find your seat belt knife, cut the belt without injuring the kid, all while the car is sliding and water is rising)
My reasoning behind no seatbelts is;
* a water crossing will be done at low speed, enough to make a bow wave.
* if things went wrong and I wanted to bail it would probably be from a cross current about to sweep the car away.
* grab kid(s) by chest-clothing and take them with you through the front
Windows should be down, don't need to be all the way.
The biggest part would be, if the risk is high and there's no real need, I'd give it a miss anyway.
Awesome topic though
My work recently put us through a advanced 4WD course, as part of the course the subject of water crossings came up.
Amongst other advice we were taught to have all belts off - for quick escape and no fiddling around with belt buckles under murky water, plus if the water is rising fast inside the vehicle you / kids will float up against the seat belt making it harder to undo.
We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.
I agree with these comments. Belts can stay off for any deep crossing as if it turns pear shaped you really dont want to waste time hunting for your belt cutter (especially if its already gone under the water)
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I'd prefer all the way down or up. Half way you have the risk of hitting something on the edge of the glass.
I was going more on the side of attempting to open the door against air pressure inside against none but handn't considered the edge however
We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.
would be a plan of choice for me from now on.
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I would agree with the no seatbelts. Having done a couple of Helicopter Uderwater Escape training (HUET) courses for work where you are in a mock helicopter underwater, upside down, with a six point seat bealt on, it is hard enough to undo your own little lone trying to get at your kids in the back seat. On the HUET course we always had people panic even though it was a controlled environment with divers at the ready to get you out if need be, and even after they had practiced and practiced undoing the seat belts out of the water.
I can only imagine the amount of panicing that would go on inside a vehicle that is rapidly filing with water especially when kids are involved, so yeah no seat belts.
The electric window thing is something I have often thought about as well.
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well, glad it got back on the the original question - water crossings. So how fast are you going that deep to need a seat belt on. Seriously if you have ever been in a crossing that deep you would know there is no way you can get that fast as to need seat belt. I would rather have the windows down (and do) and have no seat belts on (I don't either in these cases) and as mentioned no pissing around trying to find cutters and knifes and windscreen hammers. Also life jackets are a bad idea as they will only cause to hold you up rather than letting you get out through the window. Think about the airline safety - don't inflate until you exit the plane!
My seven year old loves deep crossing and did all with me last year when we did the Cape. IMO none were even remotely going to cause a problem and I would say those who have done the same would also agree. If you enter a river flowing to fast then you should have turned back as mentioned.
Oh this is my opinion and no opinions were hurt in the making of mine.
My son likes to try and reach the water while we are crossing deep water. Fun for the while family. This was Nolans last year and I know a lot of swaggers that also did this crossing with out harm.
My son wound his window up as the water stated to come in over it. Mine stayed open.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/Steveandviv/NolansBrook103mod.jpg)
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The electric window thing is something I have often thought about as well.
They do stop working, my brother sunk his Navara two weeks ago on his own driveway (yep he has a cool driveway). Him, partner and two boys 12 and 15 in the car, windows up. By the time he realised they were in trouble as the car started floating he could only get one window nearly all the way down before they stopped working. He also said the doors all locked so they all had to climb out the one window (this confused me, do navaras not have manual door buttons inside?). Luckily the car stayed upright b ut it ended up in water deep enough to make the dash cluster look like a fish tank.
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Have one of these at each exit point...
(http://www.fusiongear.com.au/images/lifehammer.jpg)
Hey D4D have you ever tried the Life Hammer on a seatbelt. I was a Firie for 24 years in a former life and we found them totally useless at cutting seat belts. We used a stanley knife. Ok for breaking glass though. Just might let you down when needed is all. They also may have improved over the years as well.
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Hey D4D have you ever tried the Life Hammer on a seatbelt. I was a Firie for 24 years in a former life and we found them totally useless at cutting seat belts. We used a stanley knife. Ok for breaking glass though. Just might let you down when needed is all. They also may have improved over the years as well.
This something I often wondered. A friend bought one of them years ago when they first came out and we always questioned its ability to cut the belts. Always wanted to get a spare strap from somewhere and try em. I have no doubt the hammer part would work. all the Japanese bullet trains have them mounted for exactly that reason.
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Question. Are these not the same as we all got with our Cargo Barriers? Not sure if the belt cutter is on them though. Mine is in the boot, so to speak so can't be sure.
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My work recently put us through a advanced 4WD course, as part of the course the subject of water crossings came up.
Amongst other advice we were taught to have all belts off - for quick escape and no fiddling around with belt buckles under murky water, plus if the water is rising fast inside the vehicle you / kids will float up against the seat belt making it harder to undo.
We were also advised to have the upstream windows wound up to stop water flowing in & the downstream windows open for a quick escape.
Good points but if you roll onto your side the seat belts may prevent everybody falling about and it will be the downstream windows that will be underwater or facing the riverbed. I've never been in this situation and the deepest crossing I've done was a bit over 1m. I imagine the problem occurs more often when normal cars try to cross flooded causeways rather than 4WD's crossing creeks. If you get pushed off a causeway you end up in deep water whereas in a creek crossing you're less likely to go from fording depth to over-the-roof in the blink of an eye.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-SMITH-AND-WESSON-FIRST-RESPONSE-RESCUE-KNIFE-EXPRESS-POST-/400260032393?pt=AU_KnivesSwords&hash=item5d315b6789#ht_2243wt_1378 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-SMITH-AND-WESSON-FIRST-RESPONSE-RESCUE-KNIFE-EXPRESS-POST-/400260032393?pt=AU_KnivesSwords&hash=item5d315b6789#ht_2243wt_1378) is an alternative rescue tool. Many knife manufacturers make them and they include a belt cutter and glass breaker
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I like those ideas, you can't tell you're the OH&S guy :)
[/quote
But im the fun OHS guy
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-SMITH-AND-WESSON-FIRST-RESPONSE-RESCUE-KNIFE-EXPRESS-POST-/400260032393?pt=AU_KnivesSwords&hash=item5d315b6789#ht_2243wt_1378 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-SMITH-AND-WESSON-FIRST-RESPONSE-RESCUE-KNIFE-EXPRESS-POST-/400260032393?pt=AU_KnivesSwords&hash=item5d315b6789#ht_2243wt_1378) is an alternative rescue tool. Many knife manufacturers make them and they include a belt cutter and glass breaker
Oh I like that, might replace my old faithful Spyderco knife...
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Lots of options here locally.
http://www.firetrader.com.au/category41_1.htm (http://www.firetrader.com.au/category41_1.htm)
beware of cheap ebay knock offs.
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Now you've dont it, I want a Fubar Forceible Entry Tool now :)
http://www.firetrader.com.au/prod491.htm (http://www.firetrader.com.au/prod491.htm)
(http://www.firetrader.com.au/images/ffo-fubar%20fet%2030_250.jpg)
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This something I often wondered. A friend bought one of them years ago when they first came out and we always questioned its ability to cut the belts. Always wanted to get a spare strap from somewhere and try em. I have no doubt the hammer part would work. all the Japanese bullet trains have them mounted for exactly that reason.
The seat belt cutter does work(on goodquality ones) the cheap eBay ones may not be that flash, but you cut diagonal down the seat belt rather than straight across. Even if you cut a longer length cut it's quicker/easier than attempting to cut straight across. Worth a try to prove it works and rest easy,also practice so in an emergency you don't panic and calmly cut yours or someone else's of you can't get to the seat belt release
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Thanks for all the great input guys, there is some good info coming out of this.
Regards
Jas
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**** scary stuff hope you all got out ok, what was the vehicle?
trot
It was Jeep. It may even been the one the OP was referencing :(
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It should never really be an issue. If you can't walk across the river (due to water flow, or depth) you shouldn't drive it. I have never had problems with turning back. It can give you the Shits, but meh, if thats the worst thing...
If you can walk it before crossing, you should find any hidden nasties on the river bed.
One way to do it is you walk across marking your route with sticks - one wheel track on the way across, then a bit wider than the other wheel track on the way back... Then drive between the sticks.
If your car does somehow start floating down river, open the door and flood the car let it sink to the bottom, and get traction again. It works...
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.....
My son likes to try and reach the water while we are crossing deep water. Fun for the while family. This was Nolans last year and I know a lot of swaggers that also did this crossing with out harm.
My son wound his window up as the water stated to come in over it. Mine stayed open.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/Steveandviv/NolansBrook103mod.jpg)
Having been involved with the SES in searched for people & cars washed away in flood waters I think it is plain stupid and irresponsible to be taking a child in a car through deep water, one small thing can go wrong and the child could be easily drowned and you would have to live with that fact for ever.
The water in the picture is up to the windows, it could easily become a disaster.
TURN BACK and find another way !!!
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If you are that worried about the crossing in a car, kids or no kids should you really be walking it?
I dont get it ??? you are worried about life in a vehicle yet your willing to walk into that very same risk.
Yes I agree water crossings need to be planned and inspected but if you think its going to be that dangerouse in a car just stay away.
Every option of preperation for the what if something goes wrong has merits but if it comes down to it and things are going to be that close turn around and find another way or go somewhere else.
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Now you've dont it, I want a Fubar Forceible Entry Tool now :)
http://www.firetrader.com.au/prod491.htm (http://www.firetrader.com.au/prod491.htm)
(http://www.firetrader.com.au/images/ffo-fubar%20fet%2030_250.jpg)
LOL, good site to poke around hey !
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the hooligan tool was good fun at the training center :)
(http://api.ning.com/files/HyeYRgztbFi49MPDN3dQ5nPfSkuGk5RaV5LO0K5F9DvJVKAN4LZ5D7fleOL3-2woPcXXqHu6r9OWPnqBTPPx3PMq5fJ2e2Qt/hooligan3.jpg)
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Not many doors I couldn't open back in the time using a 5 pound key.
Was too easy, just whack the hinges, never the lock.
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the hooligan tool was good fun at the training center :)
(http://api.ning.com/files/HyeYRgztbFi49MPDN3dQ5nPfSkuGk5RaV5LO0K5F9DvJVKAN4LZ5D7fleOL3-2woPcXXqHu6r9OWPnqBTPPx3PMq5fJ2e2Qt/hooligan3.jpg)
And great fun in real life, it's amazing the uses they have. ;D ;D
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Ok so I guess we have established some of you commited a few break and enters in your youth. ;D
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Ok so I guess we have established some of commited a few break and enters in your youth. ;D
It is common equipment on fire trucks.
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It is common equipment on fire trucks.
Just goes to cement my case mate, I never trust the firies. It's got nothing to do with how my missus reacts when they are around :D
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Just goes to cement my case mate, I never trust the firies. It's got nothing to do with how my missus reacts when they are around :D
I'll happily guarantee she won't react that way with me or most of my brigade mate. :cheers:
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Steeeeeev, why are you being so modest??? You handsome devil u!!
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Having been involved with the SES in searched for people & cars washed away in flood waters I think it is plain stupid and irresponsible to be taking a child in a car through deep water, one small thing can go wrong and the child could be easily drowned and you would have to live with that fact for ever.
The water in the picture is up to the windows, it could easily become a disaster.
TURN BACK and find another way !!!
It's Nolans Brook, you can't turn back , it's not that far and there were 50 people watching as the other 15 cars crossed as well. You have no idea what that situation was and the circumstances of why I was fine doing that crossing. I happy and comfortable with my experience in these situations, thanks for your concern. By the way, it was tons of fun and we had a ball. The only thing drowned were a few different vehicles, mostly because they didn't prepare correctly and had no idea what they were doing - that's where the danger is.
If you want to travel the Gulf of Carpenteria, the OTL there are no other ways around the 30 odd crossing we had to do to get from Broome to Cairns to Cape York, many of them only a slight bit shallower. As long as you stop and ensure you are prepared and know what your doing these crossings are quite doable..
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We have two of these in the car instead of the big hammer. Can get them pretty cheap from ebay.
http://www.resqme.com/ (http://www.resqme.com/)
Welchy
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Ok so I guess we have established some of you commited a few break and enters in your youth. ;D
Only the enters :police:
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Question. Are these not the same as we all got with our Cargo Barriers? Not sure if the belt cutter is on them though. Mine is in the boot, so to speak so can't be sure.
That perfect if your in your boot when doing the water crossing ;D
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Now you've dont it, I want a Fubar Forceible Entry Tool now :)
http://www.firetrader.com.au/prod491.htm (http://www.firetrader.com.au/prod491.htm)
(http://www.firetrader.com.au/images/ffo-fubar%20fet%2030_250.jpg)
D4D....Australia's Tim the tool man ;D
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That perfect if your in your boot when doing the water crossing ;D
But like I said - remember. I don't need to cut the seat belt as I'm not wearing it and I have the windows open so I don't need to break it. They are sold with a cargo barrier and are needed if you have people sitting in the rear seat area. I have shelves so no one can get in there anyway so ...
Right, that should clarify that remark - next.
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Steve your windows don't appear down in that shot but looking at the water level I don't think they would want to be.
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Steve your windows don't appear down in that shot but looking at the water level I don't think they would want to be.
My window was, Dan's wasn't. He wound it up as we started. I mentioned that in my previous post. He wound it up as the water started to come in the window. It's a strange feeling when you can see it moving past you like that. I cold slap the water with my right arm. The most amazing thing is the weight you can feel trying to push through that.
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It is common equipment on fire trucks.
Yup, all village protection stations had them at the start once people had run the VF training, then they were issues to all stations
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well, glad it got back on the the original question - water crossings. So how fast are you going that deep to need a seat belt on. Seriously if you have ever been in a crossing that deep you would know there is no way you can get that fast as to need seat belt. I would rather have the windows down (and do) and have no seat belts on (I don't either in these cases) and as mentioned no pissing around trying to find cutters and knifes and windscreen hammers. Also life jackets are a bad idea as they will only cause to hold you up rather than letting you get out through the window. Think about the airline safety - don't inflate until you exit the plane!
My seven year old loves deep crossing and did all with me last year when we did the Cape. IMO none were even remotely going to cause a problem and I would say those who have done the same would also agree. If you enter a river flowing to fast then you should have turned back as mentioned.
Oh this is my opinion and no opinions were hurt in the making of mine.
My son likes to try and reach the water while we are crossing deep water. Fun for the while family. This was Nolans last year and I know a lot of swaggers that also did this crossing with out harm.
My son wound his window up as the water stated to come in over it. Mine stayed open.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/Steveandviv/NolansBrook103mod.jpg)
I get what your saying steve that the Milford cargo barriers come with these attached to the rear side, I to have one also and moved it to the side the cars passengers are seated on where it can be used. Theres no point in it being back there when theres no one siting back there.
But then I see you comment that your window stayed down when your sons went up as seen in your pic.
My point for you and others was if your in a situation like "rossow" was were the car rolled onto its side in the water....lets say the drivers side...what would you do????
Steve, my comments aren't in any way an attack just a safety point for you & your family and others that may read this. Your not the only person to have left the tool still cable tied back there would hate to see some one need it, have it but not reach it when it matters.
Accidents aren't some thing we can control but exit strategies are.
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Not like this...http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/father-saves-toddler-after-4wd-overturns-in-river-20120823-24nmj.html (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/father-saves-toddler-after-4wd-overturns-in-river-20120823-24nmj.html)
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The 3 questions that need to be asked of your self.....
Do I have to go their ?
Is my vehicle capable of going their ?
Am I capable of taking my vehicle their ?
If the answer is no to even one of these........you got your answer.
In ever day life we make risk Vs. gain decisions.........assess using YOUR level of experience and proceed accordingly.
Cheers
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The reason the hammers are in the back on the cargo barrier is in case you get locked in the boot and have to smash the window.
Obviously with a cargo barrier you can't climb over the seats.
This is a great thread, learning lots of valuable info.
Thanks guys!!!
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Eeek this thread has really freaked me out and I was really excited about trying river crossings.... now not so much.
I guess it was something I hadn't even thought about, and not having done much serious 4wd I hadn't even imagined it as a possibility.
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Only persons fully capable of self recovery should be in the vehical IMHO . It,s fine to say I,ll gab tommy you grab bobby ,but this is not a good plan as tommy and bobby need to be able to self recover in case you are having a hard enough time getting yourself out.
My body shivers thinking of a kid strapped in awaiting mum or dad to free them as the water engulfs them.
If it looks bad it generally is stay out of fast flowing water ....full stop....
I only got 2 kids and they are my most prized possessions so I will never risk their safety if I can avoid it. Kick Em out ,they are safer on the bank watching. Unless they are 14yo 6ft tall and eat like a horse in which case keep Em in so they can pull you out...lol :cheers:
Jet :D :D
Jet :D :D
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Personally I would get the kids to walk the crossing.. If they get through & don't get eaten by a Croc..all is good.
Seriously, I comes down to an individual's decision as to the risks to them, their family & their vehicle. There is no doubt that fast running water is a powerful beast & must be treated with respect - there is nothing more frustrating than hearing of people being swept down a river while trying to cross it.
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A very relevent discussion.
Here is an example where it all went terribly wrong, and nearly cost the life of a young child
http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/story/239217/frantic-river-rescue-of-trapped-toddler/?cs=102 (http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/story/239217/frantic-river-rescue-of-trapped-toddler/?cs=102)
Cheers
Parry
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Yeah saw that on the news this week. Just down the road from where we live and 400m from the Eglington Bridge, after rain. No reason to be there at all.
Regards
jas