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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Estelle on May 10, 2012, 09:10:03 PM
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It is good to see Scientific studies are beyond reproach
http://gizmodo.com/5909157/ (http://gizmodo.com/5909157/)
What a load of rubbish. No idea what the researchers are on.
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Ahh, another one.
Don't dare dispute it..........the science is settled......... ::)
I know what the researchers are on................grants.......
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I know what the researchers are on................grants.......
Oh of course. Forgot about that angle. Sponsored (oops grant) by some Gym or diet company perhaps.
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Study links physiological condition of mother during pregnancy with childhood cognitive development, I don't see why that isn't a valid basis for research.
Similar studies have shown that smoking and drinking alcohol during pregnancy impair physical and mental development of children. It's not so different is it?
I think you'll find that grants for obesity related research will continue to grow the more our health system is swamped (and it is) by people with obesity related conditions. I don't blame the researchers for that. Obesity research funded by a gym or diet company would breach fundamental tenets of research integrity and would never make it to, let alone through the peer review process.
FM
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I can't see a problem with it, looks like valid research to me.
It isn't surprising that this kind of research is going on, obesity is a major health issue in western countries which is a drain on the health system and from the looks of this can also be a drain on the education system as well.
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Eggs
Red wine
Beer
Mobile phones
Carrots
Red meat
100mm white wall tiles
Spot the 1 that hasnt been investigated on some pumped up grant from some abastact mob of do gooders .
& in a few months or so it will go around the other way dont get to worried about it all
:cheers:
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No need to study, I could've given them the proof for nothing.
My mum was fat (no apology, I'm not PC), & I can tell you the sq root of 69 is 181...
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It follows then, that skinny people are more intelligent, and anorexic mothers give birth to Einsteins.......... ;D ;D ;D
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Eggs
Red wine
Beer
Mobile phones
Carrots
Red meat
100mm white wall tiles
Spot the 1 that hasnt been investigated on some pumped up grant from some abastact mob of do gooders .
& in a few months or so it will go around the other way dont get to worried about it all
:cheers:
Umm ... I'm gonna go with ... Beer. I know for a fact that there was research done on 100mm white wall tiles by a tile company recently ... they claimed that theirs were the cheapest after doing some completely unbiased research!
Kit_e
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It follows then, that skinny people are more intelligent, and anorexic mothers give birth to Einsteins.......... ;D ;D ;D
In my experience yes Geoff. I'd never say a bad word about my mum, but lets just say I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed (sorry mum :angel:) ;D
Maybe this type of scientific endeavor fits in better with the swagger ethos. :cheers:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-11/scientists-may-recreate-beer-from-184027s-shipwreck/4005282 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-11/scientists-may-recreate-beer-from-184027s-shipwreck/4005282)
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Hey, no problems with the basis for the study, just the findings are rubbish. I wonder if the paper they produce will be well received.
I worked for a scientific research organisation for over twenty years. I found the scientists to be honest and ethical (at least 99% of them).
Research funding dollars are harder and harder to obtain. Universities vie for funds. The more and better research a Uni can come up with, papers written, the more prestigious they become and the easier it is to obtain funds.
I suppose I shouldn't say much. Our Mum was overweight.
Ed:
I just had a quick browse of the study. It looks as though someone has decided on a strange interpretation of the figures.
It looks like obesity could be an indicator rather than a cause.
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In my experience yes Geoff. I'd never say a bad word about my mum, but lets just say I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed (sorry mum :angel:) ;D
Maybe this type of scientific endeavor fits in better with the swagger ethos. :cheers:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-11/scientists-may-recreate-beer-from-184027s-shipwreck/4005282 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-11/scientists-may-recreate-beer-from-184027s-shipwreck/4005282)
Now, why are these people being funded? What a waste of money and time. Unless they can come up with a spinoff of some sort that is worthwhile and benefitial. And no, not to make a better tasting beer.
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Of course an obese mother might not be feeding her children the necessary food that would develop their brains better - does that come into the equation ? Nah - Just blame the mum for being obese during pregnancy .
Statistics who needs 'em - 80% of the population don't care anyway .. Ooops
Steve
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Doesn't matter
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Ed:
I just had a quick browse of the study. It looks as though someone has decided on a strange interpretation of the figures.
It looks like obesity could be an indicator rather than a cause.
I think that the paraphrasing and attention grabbing headline by the media outlet(s) probably conveys a message that the researchers never intended. Journalists are very good at skimming through quite complex issues and selectively publishing what they perceive to be the media bites that will sell copy. That's their job after all.
Now, why are these people being funded? What a waste of money and time. Unless they can come up with a spinoff of some sort that is worthwhile and benefitial. And no, not to make a better tasting beer.
I'm guessing this would come under a cultural heritage banner or similar, not scientific funding. In the same way that Myswag may fund the Speewa cloning program one day, so that future generations wouldn't miss out in case the original gets lost.
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You could get into trouble suggesting the media would do that.
I'm guessing this would come under a cultural heritage banner or similar, not scientific funding. In the same way that Myswag may fund the Speewa cloning program one day, so that future generations wouldn't miss out in case the original gets lost.
The Speewa study. Has a nice ring.
I think the original has been lost and is on his way back.
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I think that the paraphrasing and attention grabbing headline by the media outlet(s) probably conveys a message that the researchers never intended. Journalists are very good at skimming through quite complex issues and selectively publishing what they perceive to be the media bites that will sell copy. That's their job after all.
I'm guessing this would come under a cultural heritage banner or similar, not scientific funding. In the same way that Myswag may fund the Speewa cloning program one day, so that future generations wouldn't miss out in case the original gets lost.
VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland is a globally networked multitechnological contract research organization. VTT provides high-end technology solutions and innovation services. We enhance our customers’ competitiveness, thereby creating prerequisites for society’s sustainable development, employment, and wellbeing.
That's why they are being funded. Specifically on the beer :
Researchers have now managed to isolate four different species of live lactic acid bacteria from the beer.
- Lactic acid bacteria derived from the old beer have interesting potential applications, especially in the food and beverage industry. They are stress tolerant and potentially very stable in food and non-food matrixes. Live cultures offer opportunities for modifying the structure, taste, healthiness and safety of the products. The isolated bacteria provide interesting model organisms to understand and improve long-term survival of non-spore-forming bacteria, said Annika Wilhelmson, Key Account Manager at VTT.
Damo
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Well, now that sounds interesting. Could be worthwhile after all. Never can tell can you?
Wonder what it meant in English.
Seriously. Hope it does lead to something worthwhile.
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You could get into trouble suggesting the media would do that.
I should have said 'some' journalists, I'm sure the majority are as honest as the day is long.
- Lactic acid bacteria derived from the old beer have interesting potential applications, especially in the food and beverage industry. They are stress tolerant and potentially very stable in food and non-food matrixes. Live cultures offer opportunities for modifying the structure, taste, healthiness and safety of the products. The isolated bacteria provide interesting model organisms to understand and improve long-term survival of non-spore-forming bacteria, said Annika Wilhelmson, Key Account Manager at VTT.
Damo
Interesting. I've got some Carlton light stubbies that've been in the shed for years. I could be sitting on a gold mine :laugh:
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I should have said 'some' journalists, I'm sure the majority are as honest as the day is long.
Interesting. I've got some Carlton light stubbies that've been in the shed for years. I could be sitting on a gold mine :laugh:
Ha, this is classic,
this thread has gone from 'obese mothers' to 'journalistic integrity' to 'yeast cultures of beer revived from shipwrecks': see the process of scientific discovery is working. We challenge what we don't believe then say "bugger it" and move on to something that interests us, beer.
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50% of people drink more than the average quantity of beer per year.
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The thing that is interesting with all facets of scientific research, nothing is actually proven. A hypothesis is proffered, if it cannot be disproven, then it is accepted as viable. That is until someone comes up with evidence of some description that may challenge the original acceptance, the research then continues.
I did my science degree through Murdoch University, and it basically involved reading what others had written (published authorities), then writing exactly the same information in another format to show that I had understood exactly what I had written. Of course giving references showing exactly where I had gleaned the information.
In the end a degree means not much more than the fact that someone can read and write and understand what they have read in the first instance. I intensely dislike the people that get a degree and then puit themselves forward ass being of superior intellect, that simply means they are foolish enough to believe what is not true, I have heaps to learn in the school of life, and enjoy learning it.
I would leave all research to teh buffons who need to have some kind of existence within the world of academia.
Regards
Tjupurula
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The thing that is interesting with all facets of scientific research, nothing is actually proven. A hypothesis is proffered, if it cannot be disproven, then it is accepted as viable. That is until someone comes up with evidence of some description that may challenge the original acceptance, the research then continues.
I did my science degree through Murdoch University, and it basically involved reading what others had written (published authorities), then writing exactly the same information in another format to show that I had understood exactly what I had written. Of course giving references showing exactly where I had gleaned the information.
In the end a degree means not much more than the fact that someone can read and write and understand what they have read in the first instance. I intensely dislike the people that get a degree and then puit themselves forward ass being of superior intellect, that simply means they are foolish enough to believe what is not true, I have heaps to learn in the school of life, and enjoy learning it.
I would leave all research to teh buffons who need to have some kind of existence within the world of academia.
Regards
Tjupurula
That's a bit cynical. Richard Dawkins the atheist says that the theory that there is a teapot orbiting beyond Mars cannot be disproved. If we take the word "proof" to be an absolute 100.000000% concept, then nothing is ever proved. Or it can be corrupted eg "The Proof is in the Bible."
Give yourself credit for your academic efforts. You have to do more than regurgitate other people's ideas to get a degree. Science is questioning, not acceptance. And you need to have the scientific mindset to appreciate where the bulls..t lies. Most people would believe the Ad men that a "high energy low calorie" food is really good for you. (Calories measure energy)
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Theories are only as good as the quality of the observations that back them up.
Before we could prove otherwise everyone believed that the earth was flat. Then everyone believed Newtonian physics until someone was able to observe the action of Quantum Mechanics. We now believe about this thing called the Higgs Boson until it is likely somewhere under the border between Switzerland and France may smash that to pieces.
As technology improves, and our ability to observe that which is around us, the better our understanding becomes.
Sure some research may appear to be useless, I'm sure many would have said that about an obscure theory about relativity at the time. But every person who uses a GPS (which I'm sure is everyone on this forum) owes a certain amount of thanks to that theory.
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It is good to see Scientific studies are beyond reproach
http://gizmodo.com/5909157/ (http://gizmodo.com/5909157/)
What a load of rubbish. No idea what the researchers are on.
In fairness to the researchers how did you know it was rubbish without reading the study?
If we are going to slag them off shouldn't we at least know what we are slagging?
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Theories are only as good as the quality of the observations that back them up.
Well I can prove that the "McGirr Theory" regarding the enormous use of electrical tape used when joning wires has been observed and proven to work. ;D ;D
Mark
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In fairness to the researchers how did you know it was rubbish without reading the study?
If we are going to slag them off shouldn't we at least know what we are slagging?
Why would we do that.........?? ;D ;D
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Well I can prove that the "McGirr Theory" regarding the enormous use of electrical tape used when joning wires has been observed and proven to work. ;D ;D
Mark
Does this apply to the use of silicone too.....?? ;D ;D
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Why would we do that.........?? ;D ;D
Damn, you found the flaw in my argument ;D
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That's a bit cynical. Richard Dawkins the atheist says that the theory that there is a teapot orbiting beyond Mars cannot be disproved. If we take the word "proof" to be an absolute 100.000000% concept, then nothing is ever proved. Or it can be corrupted eg "The Proof is in the Bible."
Give yourself credit for your academic efforts. You have to do more than regurgitate other people's ideas to get a degree. Science is questioning, not acceptance. And you need to have the scientific mindset to appreciate where the bulls..t lies. Most people would believe the Ad men that a "high energy low calorie" food is really good for you. (Calories measure energy)
Hi Patr801
I a not denying there is some relevance, and hard work to getting a degree. Yet at the undergraduate level one basically proves little more than they are capable of understanding and coping with what it takes to "learn" at that level. Yes science is about questioning, however once the questioning has expired, there is little to do but accept what could be viable until such time as further evidentiary material is available. I have gone further than the basic degree, but feel no use in stating those, as they were post graduate studies from pure interest.
I just get tired of the statement of something being a "scientific fact", when in reality such could be scientifically viable, but rarely, if ever, an established fact.
A clear case of this is the "evolutionary fact" that we come from primates, yet in physiological terms we are more closely related to pigs. We share the same blood groups, DNA profiling and organs types, all three of which we apparently share with no other life form. I am not saying we come from pigs, just that we share common physiological traits. That will probably become the matter of further research one day as well.
Hopefully I have clarified myself a bit better.
Regards
Tjupurula
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In fairness to the researchers how did you know it was rubbish without reading the study?
If we are going to slag them off shouldn't we at least know what we are slagging?
I read the article and made the mistake of assuming it was an accurate report. Decision made on my observations of people over the years. Know many very clever people whose Mother was overweight before and during pregnancy. Never noticed it the other way around.
I suppose I could send off for the full research documentation and make an informed comment on that. I might be more informed (maybe even understand it better), but it would still be my opinion and interpretation in the end.
We are told and accept that the world is spherical, but I've never been into space to see for myself.
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I read the article and made the mistake of assuming it was an accurate report. Decision made on my observations of people over the years. Know many very clever people whose Mother was overweight before and during pregnancy. Never noticed it the other way around.
I suppose I could send off for the full research documentation and make an informed comment on that. I might be more informed (maybe even understand it better), but it would still be my opinion and interpretation in the end.
We are told and accept that the world is spherical, but I've never been into space to see for myself.
Hi Estelle
Even if you get a copy of the full research documentation, you will basically be getting what someone has offered as their finding, and that the relevant academic authorities have not been able to disprove. I would therefore place more trust on what you have observed through your own life experiences.
It may seem like I am being cynical, but I am basically stating how things are done academically.
My own sister in law is very large of build, and we were surprised when she was flown out with the RFDS with severe "stomach cramps", and came back with a healthy baby boy, and she did not even know she was pregnant. That was kind of scary, especially when she said to us that she did not even kinow she was pregnant. Her normal body weight is about 150 kg, and at about 160cm in height, that is quite robust (being polite).
Regards
Tjupurula
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Hi Tjupurula,
The paper costs about 35 Euro. I don't think I'll bother :D
There is a link to MedicalXpress.com which has more information. Still, they seem to be stretching.
I doubt I would have a different opinion if I read the paper anyway. Stubborn? maybe, but ...
We had a similar instance many years ago. A neighbour, very much on the heavy side, did not know she was pregnant. Not well, went to the doc only to find out she had lost the bub. So sad.
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Hi Tjupurula,
Healthy scientific cynicism!
By the way, we don't come from primates, we are primates. Darwin didn't say we came from apes. Evolution says that we have a common ancestor.
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The scientific process at work! ;D
We could also have blood tranfusions from (several thousand) mice, or pretty much any placental mammal with some genetic changes. The pigs that are often mentioned (re organ transplants etc.) are heavily genetically modified, a gene that the human body objects to is removed or replaced. Cabbages are also a common ancestor, just depends how far back you want to go ;D After a big night I often remark on the similarities.
Academic publishing is an out and out rort Estelle. Authors aren't paid, reviewers aren't paid, even editors often aren't paid. Printing costs these days are pretty much nil as most use electronic copies and yet publishing companies charge 50 to 100 bucks to access a single article. On top of that authors have to sign over copyright so that sending a copy of your paper to your mum is potentially a breach. This means that people are unable to access the science to make up their own minds and have to rely on 2nd or 3rd hand accounts. Open access journals are gaining popularity more and more. PloS ONE is one of the better ones if you're that way inclined.
FM
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This whole thread is just getting a touch too 'deep'. :angel:
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I'm just waiting for someone to mention 6B&S and how that might affect the fat mothers having fat kids.
Still puzzled as to how that 6B&S does actually keep your beer cold, regardless of where you got your yeast!!
Kit_e