MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: ARB 4X4 Accessories on January 31, 2012, 07:27:50 AM
-
Hi everyone, with copies of our Air Locker product becoming available from China and on some Australian forums, I wanted to clear up a few myths to ensure potential buyers are getting the full picture.
Firstly, despite claims that the Air Locker copies manufactured in China are 'exact copies' of the genuine Air Lockers, they're not.
- The gear design is not the same
- The manufacturing processes are not the same
- The materials used are not the same
- The heat treatment process is not the same (if it's used at all)
- The tolerances are not the same
- The compressor used to activate the locking mechanism is not the same
- In fact, nothing is the same
When it comes to reliability and longevity, these differences are crucial, particularly with regard to the materials used in vital components like cross shafts. ARB has invested heavily in materials research, machinery and manufacturing processes to ensure the genuine product is manufactured to the highest possible standard. The design of the internal components is just one part of the overall equation and is generally the only part of our product that is copied in the counterfeit versions. All of our Air Locker products are manufactured in Australia (at our head office in Kilsyth) using Australian parts. We'd be happy to give a group of forum members a guided tour of the factory to show them our state of the art facilities.
The other myth I'd like to dispel, is the claim that genuine Air Locker parts are interchangeable with the counterfeits. This is simply not the case. Spare parts from our Air Locker range WILL NOT fit into the counterfeit products. This is an important point to remember when considering the after sales backup and support offered in Australia, or anywhere in the world for that matter.
When you buy genuine Air Lockers, you'll be supported by over 120 authorised outlets around Australia who can all assist you on the rare occurrence that you experience an issue with the product. The last thing you want on your next big trip is to have a vehicle disabling failure with no parts or service backup available to get you on the road again. It's in these situations that the few hundred dollars saved to buy a counterfeit product over a tried, tested and supported product will seem like a pittance.
Despite our best efforts to find a statistically significant volume of real world feedback on these counterfeits, the fact is that there just isn't enough of them on the market to provide any sort of long term, real world evidence as to their longevity and reliability. Genuine Air Lockers are backed up by a 2 year warranty and are trusted and used in over 100 countries around the world.
Finally, it's probably also worth noting that we currently have a promotion running on our Air Lockers which substantially reduces the cost difference between the genuine and counterfeit products. Check out our website for details.
Cheers, Sam.
-
With all due respect Sam as I posted in the other thread I think the pricing structure is flawed. I personally don't think giving a compressor and other bits away 'substantially' reduces the cost. I can buy the same locker in the US for around AUD800 http://www.rocky-road.com/toyarb.html (http://www.rocky-road.com/toyarb.html) that's way less than I can walk into Kilsyth and buy it for.
-
It is amazing how you can get 2 lockers from the USA delivered to Aus cheaper than what the 'Australian' company will slug you
-
Should this thread be in the 'Showroom Floor' section?
-
I do agree that it is a bit weird that you can make a locker here... send it to the USA and then send it to Aus again and it is cheaper than buying it here. All that fuel, all those duties, all those middle men. Weird!
No offence Sam (and ARB) but this is anti Australian and should be stopped. What a waste of fuel and resources.
In regard to the chinese lockers... it probably is an exact copy but made from the cheapest materials available. I'm sure that they just purchased some ARB lockers (in the USA, it's cheaper) and copied the design. And unfortunately ARB has absolutely ZERO chance of suing them because they are in china.
This unfortunately is common by chinese manufacturers... they steal others intellectual property all the time and get away with it.
The time to be scared (for other manufacturers - not chinese) is when they get their act together and copy your designs and do it well.
mike
-
With all due respect Sam as I posted in the other thread I think the pricing structure is flawed. I personally don't think giving a compressor and other bits away 'substantially' reduces the cost. I can buy the same locker in the US for around AUD800 http://www.rocky-road.com/toyarb.html (http://www.rocky-road.com/toyarb.html) that's way less than I can walk into Kilsyth and buy it for.
Hi guys, I realise this is a concern. As I'm still a relative newbie at ARB, I will do some investigation to try and ascertain why this is the case.
Cheers, Sam.
-
The thing is the Chinese do great copies, but obviously using inferior materials. I certainly WOULD NOT purchase one of the cheapies. Having said that, the way ARB are treating Australian custom, i won't be buying ARB lockers either. I will be getting TJM air lockers and with a bit more research into E-Lockers from Opposite Lock, maybe Dave at the new OL in St Marys will get my money.
ARB are certainly not the be all and end all in the accessories market
-
Let me clarify, i am not bagging ARB products as such
My 60 series was FULLY kitted out by ARB and i like the products. It's just the way the company is treating us
-
Perception is reality. And unfortunately the perception of ARB at the moment is not good...
-
It is amazing how you can get 2 lockers from the USA delivered to Aus cheaper than what the 'Australian' company will slug you
I do agree that it is a bit weird that you can make a locker here... send it to the USA and then send it to Aus again and it is cheaper than buying it here. All that fuel, all those duties, all those middle men. Weird!
Its not amazing or weird, just plain bullShit. I can see no other reason that they are more expensive here apart from taking as much money from the aus customer as possible. ARB air lockers in this country should be cheaper than anywhere else in the world, since they are made here after all.
-
Sam please listen to the posts so far, which not one is supporting you guys at the moment.
When i owned a supermarket (be it a small one), the previous owners were working on high gp's. So i went in and lowered pricing across the board by a few % and my sales increased from $27k/week to $35k/week. My point being, have better pricing and get more turnover.
Just some food for thought
-
Different market places dictate different prices. Just buy them from the states, not exactly a big deal or problem.
-
This unfortunately is common by chinese manufacturers... they steal others intellectual property all the time and get away with it.
Chinese law simply doesn't recognise IP.
Before the ARB bagging gets too carried away, I think it is worth considering where ARB has taken the offroad industry during their existence - lots of innovation, quality products (yes there are occasional issues, like with any other product on the market), local employment opportunities, and a country-wide dealer network for backing up their products when required. Oh and they also lifted four wheel driving out of its redneck image, and established Australian offroad products and expertise as market leaders worldwide.
I have no affiliation with them apart from the lockers in my Nissan; in fact I have a personal connection with one of their market competitors. And I tend to agree that it might be time to review their pricing model, if only because I fear for their ongoing existence if they don't address the changing marketplace immediately. But hey, a little respect for their achievements and standing in the offroad industry wouldn't hurt. It's not always about your own hip pocket, if everyone thought like that we'd all be remote area touring on cheap low quality Chinese products... I don't know about others but that doesn't sound too attractive to me.
-
Should this thread be in the 'Showroom Floor' section?
I think this thread is fine in the dicussion folder. It is clarifying an issue and has spawned some interesting comment. Looking forward to his investigation reply, re pricing disparity between OS sourced OEM lockers and local sourced gear.
-
I agree about what they have done for the the 4wd industry in Aus.
BUT they did this through the support of the Aus customers... now the Aus customers fell a little shafted. It's only because they know they can get it cheaper overseas which means they know they are paying too much for it locally.
-
Market forces are already in play in Aus with the many cheaper bullbar, roofrack etc. importers starting to compete and get share in the market. The Aus market is 2/3 of ARB's business, sooner or later the imports are going to hurt them and they will have to compete rather than selling on their brand. Time will tell if Andy drops the prices, might guess is not.
This makes for interesting reading http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01228024 (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01228024)
-
My point being, have better pricing and get more turnover.
ARB currently dont need to change a thing... Some model cars have months waiting lists for bullbars.. Their lockers are flying out the door. Go into most ARB stores on a weekend.. they are flat out.
Their current strategy is working, and Andy is rolling in it.. he doesn't even give good (in my eyes) discounts for staff, (myself and D4D know a dirty old man that has worked there for eons)
The owner of the company considers pissing off home 20mins early stealing.
Although I remember when "Other" lockers were coming on the market they were going to "SHAKE" the market to its knees :pissingpantsemoticon: I reckon they all got together and said lets stick with one price range - Like Servo's dont do with fuel as the ACCC tells us.
-
As a side note, I notice you have the Volkswagon Amorok listed as having a front locker available, are they available??
Baz.
-
As a side note, I notice you have the Volkswagon Amorok listed as having a front locker available, are they available??
Baz.
G'day Bazz, I've just checked with our Air Locker engineer and there is no front locker available for the Amarok. From the factory, the crown wheel in the front diff is actually welded (not bolted) to the housing so it's actually not possible to fit a front locker. We do make one for the rear though.
Can you let me know where you read that they're available?
Cheers, Sam.
-
just be done with it an install an E-Locker >:D
-
G'day Bazz, I've just checked with our Air Locker engineer and there is no front locker available for the Amarok. From the factory, the crown wheel in the front diff is actually welded (not bolted) to the housing so it's actually not possible to fit a front locker. We do make one for the rear though.
Can you let me know where you read that they're available?
Cheers, Sam.
But the Amarok comes standard with a rear locker ???
-
ARB currently dont need to change a thing... Some model cars have months waiting lists for bullbars.. Their lockers are flying out the door. Go into most ARB stores on a weekend.. they are flat out.
.
Spot on Lost.
My last job before my current one was managing a fleet of vehicles. Our 4wds were fitted with ARB. Full stop. We went with ARB because it never ever ever failed. These were on emergency services vehicles and our 4wd Driver Training fleet (which were ALWAYS Toyota for the same reason) and were abused constantly. At one stage the beancounters put purchases out to tender. Lasted one financial year, never again.
ARB are simply the best gear out there and just like Toyota you pay a premium. You dont have to pay the premium of course thats voluntary :)
(disclaimer: the best provided they have stopped the oil holidaying up the engagement lines on the lockers :;) )
cheers
-
Sam please listen to the posts so far, which not one is supporting you guys at the moment.
Perception is reality. And unfortunately the perception of ARB at the moment is not good...
Hi guys, gathering important customer feedback is one of the key reasons for us getting more involved in the forum scene so we're most definitely listening . Where genuine issues or suggestions are raised, I'll certainly ensure they're heard. :cheers:
Cheers, Sam.
-
G'day Bazz, I've just checked with our Air Locker engineer and there is no front locker available for the Amarok. From the factory, the crown wheel in the front diff is actually welded (not bolted) to the housing so it's actually not possible to fit a front locker. We do make one for the rear though.
Can you let me know where you read that they're available?
Cheers, Sam.
Right here
http://www.arb.com.au/products/ (http://www.arb.com.au/products/)
-
What would make us all happy?
If any ARB gear made in Australia was cheaper to purchase in Australia than in any other country.
Even if you just jacked up the prices in the USA to be above ours.... as long as aussie gear is cheaper in Aus! Perception is reality. (BTW, not a popular idea).
Don't worry... just blame it on the financial crisis in Greece and Italy.
mike
-
What would make us all happy?
If any ARB gear made in Australia was cheaper to purchase in Australia than in any other country.
Even if you just jacked up the prices in the USA to be above ours.... as long as aussie gear is cheaper in Aus! Perception is reality. (BTW, not a popular idea).
Don't worry... just blame it on the financial crisis in Greece and Italy.
mike
But that can't happen with our strong dollar, high cost of living, small market place, tax structure etc etc
Just because something is made in a particular country doesn't mean it is going to be cheapest there.
I can buy a can of coke for about 20 c in Indonesia but can't do that in the USA.
There are a whole bunch of factors that determine pricing and country of manufacture isn't the main one
-
yeah yeah yeah.... sure sure sure....
1st, i'm pretty sure coke is made where it is sold. i.e the coke we drink here is made here.
<edit> i looked it up, the syrup is from the US. The bottling is local to wherever you buy it. </edit>
2nd, if a locker costs $500 to make then that is a fixed cost. Doesn't matter where it is being shipped to, the cost to make it remains the same.
You can try to BS people about taxes and exchange rates and all other sorts of financial BS but it's all..... BS. ;D
In this case ARB cannot sell that locker for less than $500 to a yank or an aussie.
The price they chose to sell it for is their business.
-
We have a 150 Prado, last year when pricing up bullbars we ended up getting a ARB bar.
The funny thing..... It was cheaper to buy and install through OL than the price ARB quoted. And as stated in earlier posts ARB are no longer alone in the marketplace, not only are other products arriving but some of the companies are putting in as much research and development into their product.
Australians dont necesarily want cheap products, we want quality products at a reasonable price.
-
I suspect all that will happen from this sort of customer research is the USA dealers will get their cage rattled for disobeying their export restrictions, then you wont be able to buy them through that route any more
-
I think the main reason for the cheaper price in the US, is mainly due to the volume of sales there, it's a pretty big market, especially when you include Canada, Mexico and Sth America.
Baz.
-
the buy price in USA is cheaper- but the delivery to Aussie brings the price to within $100- so its easier to pay for the product in Australia with the warranty.
ARB have there heads screwed on and have priced accordingly.
interesting to me though is since the chinese copies have been around in greater numbers and marketing (ebay and internet stores) ARB are doing deals- free compressor etc, for 20 years they have never "discounted" the locker like this.
now put this into context beside the Johny Trackabout saga.... and what do you get?
-
But that can't happen with our strong dollar, high cost of living, small market place, tax structure etc etc
Just because something is made in a particular country doesn't mean it is going to be cheapest there.
I can buy a can of coke for about 20 c in Indonesia but can't do that in the USA.
There are a whole bunch of factors that determine pricing and country of manufacture isn't the main one
A Manufacturer will price his product at a price that the market is willing to pay for it. Australians have historically been prepared to pay more than other countries for many and varied goods.
This price difference based on a particular market works as long as those markets are kept separate. It worked in the not too distant past but with online shopping its getting harder and harder to keep those markets apart.
If you can get your ARB lockers cheaper OS then do it and maybe one day the honchos here will realise that we are not prepared to pay their outrageous price mark ups anymore.
-
so it's $100 difference per locker. Add delivery of $100... now it's a $200 difference (between local and USA).
If ARB dropped the price $201 and it was cheapest to buy here in Aus then we would all beat our chests, claim ARB as the 'little aussie battler' and thump anyone who claimed an e-locker was better. But ARB appear to want to be 'elite' or something. Or they are just too greedy. No one gives a flying ferkle about anything other than share price anymore. Screw national pride, screw brotherhood, screw loyalty... ALL PRAISE THE DOLLAR!
It really is just sad. This whole thing is not really about the price. It's about fairness. It's about perceived fairness. And selling an aussie made product in the USA cheaper than here does not meet our internal fairness test. This gives people a bad feeling and... in the long run the good will towards ARB will suffer.
And the comment above about the USA shops shipping to Australia. 100% agree. Best solution ever! Costs them nothing and they get to blame someone else.
-
I have given this a little more thought. To enter the US market, a company needs some leverage, and for ARB a competitive price-point was fairly critical. Once established, the margins can then be worked up over time.
The alternative was to drop the margin on all markets, which might have made locals happier - but then where does the capital for re-investment into new products come from?
Seems to me that ARB has developed a business model that works very well for them.
-
As already posted by D4D, have a look at their annual report : http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01228024 (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01228024)
Profit is growing exponentially. Aus is still the LARGEST part of their business by far.
If you look at their profit... and profit growth you will see that there is more then enough for re-investment into new product development.
It even says in their report that profit now is greater than all revenue was just a few years ago.... in other words, they are rolling in it.
I have nothing against then and i think their products are great I would just like to see them in a position where they were actually proud to be Australian.
-
I think ARB will be around for quite some time, they are in the postion of being a company that produces a good quality product that is sort after world wide AND is made in Australia for the most part, you only have to look at 4WD mags from England, the US and Europe to see this.
ARB are very well respected all around the world, yet not here, must that tall poppy thing again.
Baz.
-
...It really is just sad. This whole thing is not really about the price. It's about fairness. It's about perceived fairness. And selling an aussie made product in the USA cheaper than here does not meet our internal fairness test. This gives people a bad feeling and... in the long run the good will towards ARB will suffer....
Well said.
Put it this way, ARB is willing to sell it to foreigners cheaper than to local Aussies, yet want us to support local manufacture and buy Aussie made goods. Smacks of using patriotism to bleed a few more dollars from the locals ???
I like ARB products, they are well made - I have bought enough of them to know ;D And I understand it makes business sense to maximise profit - but that can be at the expense of goodwill. Looks like ARB values it profits more than the goodwill of its customers.
Cheers
Captain
-
For what it is worth, my two cents, after reading this thread, there are some people that just have no idea or concept of the Global market and how the same product can be a different price Country to Country. More I think this thread has turned to reflect the economic depression (by that I mean less money in the hand to cover increase utility bills, put food on the table and still be able to have a life) we are all suffering.
As for ARB Lockers, I am currently looking for a Cruiser, been looking at 80's and 100's. Must say there are not many with ARB Lockers fitted. I have Front and Rear on my old hilux and having them place a lot more priority on Lockers then a lot of other people, even ones that actually drive them off road.
The one comment I do agree with that has been mentioned in quality gear at a reasonable price. I guess that just depends what each of us defines as a reasonable price.
-
For what it is worth, my two cents, after reading this thread, there are some people that just have no idea or concept of the Global market and how the same product can be a different price Country to Country.
I think you missed the point of being a consumer in a global market. I now have the option to buy a product from any country I like.
-
Being a Consumer in a global market is a different issue altogether and one that has it's own range of problems and issues. Just ask Johnny Trackabout. If not for an open global market things would be a lot different all round. If as a consumer you can shop globally, then until ALL Countries and Markets are playing on the same level field similar situations will continue to happen and business in supposedly good financial countries, such as a Australia will continue to fold or go overseas to be able to compete with cheaper products. For the consumer however, cheaper does not always mean quality.
-
This style of pricing will always be. As mentioned expanding into a market overseas requires competitive pricing and this is what ARB are doing. Ford have done it and so has Holden.
With the Aussie dollar being what it is the opportunity is there to purchase and save by buying over seas but there will always be consumers that are happy to walk into a store and buy.
As a consumer we now have more choices and if sales start to slow companies will re position pricing to compensate. Well done ARB an Australian company exporting and surviving in this climate of imports.
If you don't like the prices buy overseas but they are surviving and making money is that a problem.
Put it this way if they went off shore to build and only imported to make them cheap and sacked the staff they have what would we say then.
I know if I had the opportunity to own the company I would be doing the same.
Now the banks that's another matter !!! ;D
Mark
-
I've been reading this thread with interest. I'd like to hear from ARB in regards to their pricing structure.
-
There is no way they will tell you like prettymuch no business would, none of any ones business.
Tall poppy syndrome is alive and well.
Most of the US stuff is sold wholesale via Internet fronted stores, very few actual shops with employees etc. the price is also obviously poles apart due to the recent changes in the strength of the relative currencies.
In the end don't like the price don't buy, pretty simple but to expect a company to be fair because you aren't willing to pay their price is bizarre.
Some companies are priced at a premium due to the quality of the product and the market segment they want to attract. You can sell ten products at a profit of $10 to make a $100 or sell five st $20 to make your $100. Each have pros and cons, selling the five means less stock sitting on shelves, etc etc
They have their business model which has made them a very successful and profitable business. They aren't a charity or a two bit eBay seller (not that anyone selling stuff on eBay is not legit etc etc)
-
I am all for Australian businesses and I think people are doing Trackabout a great dis-service by comparing them to ARB. I don't think Trackabout ever set profit above community and gouged any customers. Full points to ARB for building such a strong business but gouging those who made you who you are makes them different to the banks who enjoy bending each of us over so much.
Unfortunately this is now the way of the world and CEO's and board members no longer give a flying roger about anything but bottom line. I don't like it and I will whinge about it but at the end of the day we all just have to suck it and work around it where we can ie. buy from the US.
ARB produce great gear but only last week I was given confirmation of their market fixing and money grabbing ways. There is a particular non-arb product that I wanted to stock and sell. Unfortunately for me, in WA arb are the distributors and all resellers must buy through them. They get to decide who sells and who doesn't, not the manufacturing company. I fit into the doesn't category purely because they see me as a threat to their stores here who stock the said product because I sell online. The same product can be bought online much cheaper in the eastern states because it is being bought from different distributors.
-
If a company has exclusive rights to resell a product in a country then that means exactly that, the terms would have been set by the manufacturer.
This ARB bashing is pathetic, this is an Australian company that employs Aussies, sells Aussie designed and made products to a world wide market yet seemingly because they are more expensive than some are willing to pay are evil money grabbers.
-
Are their products good? Do you think they're worth it? If yes, get down to a retailer and work out the best deal you can. If not, don't! But don't whine about it endlessly.
Australian business is tough, wages are relatively high, both for manufacturers and retailers because we have all come to expect a standard of living that is uncommonly high.
Complaints don't hurt (necessarily), only consumer action.
-
I don't mind paying top $ for ARB products as they're premium quality. What I do take offence to is paying less for ARB products when I am in the US vs. when I am in AU.
-
If a company has exclusive rights to resell a product in a country then that means exactly that, the terms would have been set by the manufacturer.
This ARB bashing is pathetic, this is an Australian company that employs Aussies, sells Aussie designed and made products to a world wide market yet seemingly because they are more expensive than some are willing to pay are evil money grabbers.
Wasn't it ARB who started this bashing thread. I had a ligitimate question to ARB in their introduction thread that has still not been answered and I think there are a lot of people who would like it explained by ARB not someone having a guess. Yes the manufacturer set the pricing but why is it sold cheaper in a country it is imported to other than on it's own shores. A great example of how I see it should be done is the same as the contract by Leupold scopes. Made in the US and sold at Cabella's over there for $249.00 and the cheapest I could wrangle the price down here was $605.00 . This is a deal that has been struck up by the Australian importer. I say fair enough. Could you imagine the out cry by the US people if Leupold did what ARB have done. They would not buy Leupold any more. 75% of Americans own firearms. (72%of Americans are christians too ;D)
Yes ARB sell a great product and they do their own R&D which costs money but if the sales of the product are so high in the US why can it be cheaper here also. After all the product sold to the US had to pay for some of that R&D and quality product too. If more Australians could afford it if they would buy it. Is it some scheme to keep the less fortunate away from ARB products so that it ends up being an exclusive thing that only the wealthy can afford?
Yes they employ Australians. I would like to see them employ more and more. But I would also like a fair deal and I believe that selling a product cheaper in anothe country is an unfair deal. If ARB sold more of their product here would they then not employ more people to keep up with demand. They are already struggling to do that now but if they employ more people they will have to do lay off's during the non peak periods, so they make you wait.
-
As far as their products go no one is complaining. I think we all agree that it is A1 gear.
But their reputation is suffering because most aussies want a 'fair go'. Sure 'fairness' has no place in business. At my place of employment the word 'fair' means "a place to go on rides and eat fairy floss".
BUT to the consumer fairness is huge issue. No one ever wants to feel like they got ripped off. Every one wants a fair price. They don't mind paying for the cost of the good and for some profit to be made... as long as it is fair.
I can only speak for myself here (but i am sure that others agree). The culture of greed and profit before everything else that seems to have engulfed the world in the last few years does not sit well with 'joe average'. I am ranting a bit on here about this culture in general and not specifically about ARB. Although it certainly looks like ARB is starting to pray at the same altar.
-
Price gouging us dopey australians again. Shock, horror.
We smile nod, and defend ozzie made to justify why we pay much more than our o/s counterparts.
-
Unless I have missed it the one thing that is different with USA pricing is that it is less sales tax. All states and county's have different rates and that is added at the checkout. When you buy something on the internet they don't charge sales tax and if under the magic $1000 we don't pay GST on the import.
One thing is that we have been screwed for so long with high prices it is only now that people can shop overseas and see what a product really costs.
ARB have certainly gone quiet. :cheers:
-
If you do import a locker from os and save $200 or so what do you do about warranty?
Do you send it back os?
-
Do people seriously expect a company to come into a forum and explain their pricing policies?
Don't like the prices, don't buy. It's simple, no conspiracy, just a business model.
-
Why should it have to be sent back? At the end of the day it is still an ARB locker and should be covered no matter where it was purchased.
-
Do people seriously expect a company to come into a forum and explain their pricing policies?
Don't like the prices, don't buy. It's simple, no conspiracy, just a business model.
It's called feedback. Consumers are giving it. If ARB don't like it then they don't have to listen.
I don't expect them to explain their pricing policy.... but if i were them i would listen to the feedback they are getting.
Consumers are going global, things are changing. Innovate or die.
Having an apathetic attitude will get you nowhere.
-
Warranty is valid and controlled in the country you bought it. This is most often strongly covered under that countries laws
Australia has some of the toughest consumer laws in the world and yes this cost has to be added onto products sold here BUT the price difference in this case is a lot and the GST argument doesnt stack up despite what retailers here say.
If the goods were only 10% cheaper, no one could freight them here for that (especially heavy parts) and there would be no internet type sales taking place - there is, so the goods must be cheaper in real terms. The reasons behind this are basically Australians can afford to pay more and we do every day. We love to regulate every process ensuring high standards and protections which is good but costs businesses money in the end.
Its lucky ARB are strongly dependant on Australian market as if it were the US market they were strong in things would be very tight there right now.
Restrictions on pricing, exclusivity are controlled by both manufacturer, importer and retailer depending what strength each brings to the table, ARB are a strong brand and can negotiate some tough deals with suppliers Id say - probably backed by big sales targets. Id have thought it was unusual to have exclusive supply deal within a country like the WA example? Too easy to get around it.
-
Its lucky ARB are strongly dependant on Australian market as if it were the US market they were strong in things would be very tight there right now.
I doubt they are dependant on us at all now. ARB seem to be everywhere in the US 4wd forums.
Just an observation.
On the warranty side if you need to send it back to the US its a $400 round trip. Thats a pretty big hit I reckon. (I take it ARB oz has no legal requirement to fix it here?)
-
I doubt they are dependant on us at all now. ARB seem to be everywhere in the US 4wd forums.
Read the link I posted, 2/3 of their business still comes from AU
-
now wheres that PDF of their pricing again ;)
-
It's called feedback. Consumers are giving it. If ARB don't like it then they don't have to listen.
I don't expect them to explain their pricing policy.... but if i were them i would listen to the feedback they are getting.
Consumers are going global, things are changing. Innovate or die.
Having an apathetic attitude will get you nowhere.
Yes feedback is valuable but I was responding to people aski g for ARB to come on and explain there pricing policy, very different
-
Hi guys, I realise this is a concern. As I'm still a relative newbie at ARB, I will do some investigation to try and ascertain why this is the case.
Cheers, Sam.
Sam has stated he will TRY to find out about our queries/gripes/whinges. From his original comment i would expect him to come back to us with something.... anything. Even if it is to tell us to suck eggs and shut up :o
-
Read the link I posted, 2/3 of their business still comes from AU
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! (HJ)
Sorry, I was wrong. :cheers:
-
now wheres that PDF of their pricing again ;)
On my 'puter..... >:D Moohahaha >:D
-
Hi guys, I've done a bit of digging around re Air Locker pricing in Australia and the US and can offer the following.
The RRP of an Air Locker in Australia and the US is actually not all that different. Using the Landcruiser 100 Series as an example, the RRP of a rear locker in the US is US$1095.00 (web link (http://www.arbusa.com/Vehicle/2006-toyota-land-cruiser-100-series.aspx)) and in Australia it's AUS$1108.00 (+GST). Depending on the US state, there may also be sales tax on top of the listed RRP.
The heavily discounted pricing that can be found in the US actually comes primarily at a reseller level. With a much larger market (ie greater sales volume) and subsequently a higher level of competition, the resellers have a tendency to discount prices and make a minimal margin to remain competitive.
We are even aware of some US resellers using the Air Locker brand as a ‘loss leader’ due to its popularity. This means they’re happy to sell an Air Locker at a loss in order to attract new customers and generate exposure to their wider product range. This in turn puts even greater pressure on other stockists to reduce prices.
Furthermore, many of the discount sellers in the US are solely web based and therefore don't have showrooms or offer fitting services like our Australian network which substantially reduces their overheads.
Obviously, the strong Aussie dollar at the moment is exacerbating any price difference and, in the ideal world, we'd increase the price in the US to account for this. However, with current market conditions in the US, this is just not commercially viable.
For comparison's sake, our Australian pricing is actually pretty competitive with our main competitors. For example, a rear Pro Locker for a 100 Series Cruiser is $1167.00 (+GST) so it's really more a matter of US resellers discounting than Australian pricing being excessive.
Hope this helps explain things a bit.
Cheers, Sam.
-
On that note, I'm sure there's going to be a few Columbo's out there ("Just one more question") but time to bring the thread lock out I reckon.
LJ
-
Well said Sam.
Know what was the myswag discount again !!!!! Only joking ;D ;D
Mark
-
Now we'll all have to whine about the unjust margins of the retailers.
Need a few more web stores in AU.
Makes sense. Thanks Sam.
-
On that note, I'm sure there's going to be a few Columbo's out there ("Just one more question") but time to bring the thread lock out I reckon.
I think lock is in order, as it doesnt really answer much.
Im not a business owner, but I can't see shops selling lockers at over 50% loss in price to sell 1 locker a month to AU. They arent going to get you in the door for a bullbar and set of recaros off them. people are saving 400each locker LANDED.. freight on that weight from USA would be hideous...
-
Hi guys, I've done a bit of digging around re Air Locker pricing in Australia and the US and can offer the following.
The RRP of an Air Locker in Australia and the US is actually not all that different. Using the Landcruiser 100 Series as an example, the RRP of a rear locker in the US is US$1095.00 (web link (http://www.arbusa.com/Vehicle/2006-toyota-land-cruiser-100-series.aspx)) and in Australia it's AUS$1108.00 (+GST). Depending on the US state, there may also be sales tax on top of the listed RRP.
The heavily discounted pricing that can be found in the US actually comes primarily at a reseller level. With a much larger market (ie greater sales volume) and subsequently a higher level of competition, the resellers have a tendency to discount prices and make a minimal margin to remain competitive.
We are even aware of some US resellers using the Air Locker brand as a ‘loss leader’ due to its popularity. This means they’re happy to sell an Air Locker at a loss in order to attract new customers and generate exposure to their wider product range. This in turn puts even greater pressure on other stockists to reduce prices.
Furthermore, many of the discount sellers in the US are solely web based and therefore don't have showrooms or offer fitting services like our Australian network which substantially reduces their overheads.
Obviously, the strong Aussie dollar at the moment is exacerbating any price difference and, in the ideal world, we'd increase the price in the US to account for this. However, with current market conditions in the US, this is just not commercially viable.
For comparison's sake, our Australian pricing is actually pretty competitive with our main competitors. For example, a rear Pro Locker for a 100 Series Cruiser is $1167.00 (+GST) so it's really more a matter of US resellers discounting than Australian pricing being excessive.
Hope this helps explain things a bit.
Cheers, Sam.
It's not just lockers Sam - it's everything to do with ARB. During last year an ARB booklet for for retailers was posted on this forum and alot of us downloaded it - me included. The Australian dealer price for an ARB bullbar for a JK Wrangler according to the booklet is $1071.43. ARB retail is $1472 (not fitted) Quadratec are selling it for US$912.99. The Australian dealer price is even more than what the US retail price is!!!
I can find plenty of other items that show exactly the same. I am sure the US sites are not selling everything as 'loss leaders'!!
-
Front locker landcruiser 80 series Australia. Was quoted $1050.00 over the phone from ARB (best price no compressor). $765.00 in the US including V sales tax, add $76.50 for duty taxes when I get back to Au. If a store is willing to take that much of a loss to sell your product then so be it. I know your not going to tell me the sell price as that is just bad business. The guys in the US would pay around the same as the stores here because of their quantity of sales but it would work out about even because of the cost of shipping to the US. I have a shipping crate on the way back from the US now and it was bloody expensive. They still have a shop front and the workers in the US get paid on their sales. They all work for minimum wage and get paid on percentage of sales profit. Very different to here. Here sales clerks get a flat rate no matter what they sell. Sales reps work on a quota but that is different again. ARB set the prices they want their product sold for by their retailers.
Americans earn much less than Australians so every thing is cheaper but right now if you say a dollar US you may as well say a dollar Au. For those that are interested a $80,000 wage here is equivilent to $55,000 us as far as what you can buy for your dollar. coke in servo here $2.30 to $2.80 in the US 75 cents. Beer in woollies here $14.00 six pack in a service station in VW $9.50 packet of Malrborough 25s $6.40 from servo, when I cam home i looked and they were $15.80 from my corner store. Pair of levi's 505's here $150 in the US $40.00. So I can understand the cheaper prices for the US but it does not reflect the dollar for dollar value.
This is only an example as I have never made a diff lock or worked for a company that has.
Lets say an article costs $500 per unit to make this includes being made on a CNC machine which will need replacing after around 10,000 units (machine upgrades are not included because machines are normally sold of or put into production requiring less quality. Packaging and QA $60 per unit and dispatch about $8.00 per unit laned in store company profit on top 25%. ($710) we sell the unit here for $1000.00 because of 30% profit margin by stores which is dictated to by manufacturer as a minimum sale price if the store wants to sell the company's products) but we ship the same item to another country add about $80.00 to the cost price because of freight and it gets sold much cheaper. Go figure. Don't forget the company would have costs minimised to obtain maximum profits without compromising quality or quantity so it may even be cheaper than this.
I wasn't that bad at maths at school to work out something isn't right. If the company are taking a huge slug to sell these units at a cheaper price that you say you can sell them here for where are they making up the sort fall? On the Australian market? On other products they sell? someone called conspiracy no there isn't, there is a company making profits but at who's expence the Australians or the country it exports to?
No need to lock any threads they usually just burn out . No one here is heated I am certainly not and I hope others aren't . They are only words and I am only asking a question and trying to put a bit of logic into how it all works. If that is Sam's responce so be it. ARB loses a little more confidence in the Australian market and I get dubbed a DH for asking a question that I don't understand the meaning of. So be it ;D I have been called a DH by many a CEO fellow engineer or my wife before. I am still a happy camper.
-
Pair of levi's 505's here $150 in the US $40.00. So I can understand the cheaper prices for the US but it does not reflect the dollar for dollar value.
actually if you go to their factory outlet we went to on our way somewhere from Sth Dakota to Arizona, they are $5-10 a pr... my ex is a yank, and when she came here she went to buy some jeans, and nearly had to call 000 when she was given the price.... Needless to say her bags were empty on the way over when she went on her first return visit to USA full on way back!
-
The sentiment expressed here is clear, but I don't think ARB is going to outline their pricing structure on this forum. Take some satisfaction from the fact that Sam is clearly reading these responses, and surely feeding the dissatisfaction back to his colleagues.
I'd hate to see this go one for pages more, as it will not serve us any better.
-
Hypothetically, if a local AU dealer tried sell under RRP,as a loss leader, and start a price war they will find it hard to source stock....
-
This is all a bit silly really.
If you dont want to give ARB your money keep it in your pocket or give it to someone other retailer.
Its a business, not a charity.
Just like Toyota they sell a premium product (whether 'premium' is real or imagined) and seem to be managing the business ok given the current world economic outlet.
Just like Toyota people whine about the price. But they still sell like hotcakes so the business model is sound.
-
Being that most of ARB's money from Austrailan customers come from businesses (additions to new cars from dealers, company cars, mining, commercial cars/ trucks etc) they probably don't really care if they don't sell the lockers in Australia.
They make way more from there commercial clients, as the cost of the parts get added to the lease and the client doesn't question the price.
I do agree though, it seems a bit stupid you can buy an Australian product cheaper in the US inc delivery. :'(
-
The sentiment expressed here is clear, but I don't think ARB is going to outline their pricing structure on this forum. Take some satisfaction from the fact that Sam is clearly reading these responses, and surely feeding the dissatisfaction back to his colleagues.
I'd hate to see this go one for pages more, as it will not serve us any better.
:cup:
-
This "lost leadering" sounds terrific.....can anyone tell me where I can get myself into some? Must be happening everywhere else but where I shop.... :'(
-
We have a 4WD show coming up in Qeanbeyan in a couple of weeks, I'll stop winging about cheaper ARB lockers in the US if I can pick up front and rear for a 100 Series for under $2000 at the show. ??? >:(
Otherwise I have a work trip to the US next month, I could have a heavy bag coming back. ;D
-
This "lost leadering" sounds terrific.....can anyone tell me where I can get myself into some? Must be happening everywhere else but where I shop.... :'(
Alot of stores do this, inc electrical stores. I used to work at a big dept store that sold computers, fridges, ovens, tvs etc and quite often we would sell products under cost to get clients in the door. Then it was the sales peoples jobto upsell/ cross sell other products.
-
This is not only ARB, more brands are having the same.
When you order poly air bags in Oz you pay $350 for it.
When you order them from the US it is $150 delivered.
OK, it is from a different company, but the bags are exactly the same.
So don't blame ARB.
-
This is not only ARB, more brands are having the same.
Too true but it does not make it right
http://us.oztent.com/products/viewProduct.asp?productid=42 (http://us.oztent.com/products/viewProduct.asp?productid=42)
http://au.oztent.com/products/viewProduct.asp?productid=3 (http://au.oztent.com/products/viewProduct.asp?productid=3)
-
I have never paid retail in our local ARB shop. I walk in, ask the price and get an answer and then ask them what the 'real' price is and pretty much get 10-20% off. The local Opposite Lock shop is the same. Still not as cheap as the US, but it pays to ask!
-
Front locker landcruiser 80 series Australia. Was quoted $1050.00 over the phone from ARB (best price no compressor). $765.00 in the US including V sales tax, add $76.50 for duty taxes when I get back to Au.
Just so you know.
You live in Australia so you do not pay any sales tax on anything you purchase from any US State.
You pay no Australian duty, customs fees or tax unless you spend $1,000.00 AUS or more.
So there is even more savings there...
Bill and Morag
-
You live in Australia so you do not pay any sales tax on anything you purchase from any US State.
If you physically buy in the US you have to pay state tax. If you order online typically you don't pay state tax.
-
Until the Pollies work out how to tax it. They are trying to
-
Hi Guys,
The argument of what Australian product costs here against the US comes up all the time in so many industries. Usually by the time you take freight etc into account, there is not much difference. Rocky Road Outfitters (first supplier in a Google search) will sell me an LC locker for $835 and their cost to Australia is $250 to freight it. I am sure there are better deals but a locker is heavy and therefore expensive to freight. What is excess baggage? $35/kilo or so.
There is also a different scale of economies between the US and here. Remember there is 300 million of them and 22 million of us. Example, last year the total Australian auto market was about a million vehicles and in the US they sold about 585,000 F Series trucks alone! The aftermarket business in the US is massive and unlike here in the US they sell about 50/50 cars and trucks. I am sure if you placed an order for 50,000 lockers that ARB would give you a better price than ordering 10.
My 2 cents worth.
Tony.
I may be wrong here but I think local manufacturers get incentives and breaks on product they export.
-
If you physically buy in the US you have to pay state tax. If you order online typically you don't pay state tax.
That is true.
However I thought you were talking about purchasing online like everyone else...
Bill and Morag
-
I have never paid retail in our local ARB shop. I walk in, ask the price and get an answer and then ask them what the 'real' price is ....
I always try the same thing at ARB stores, and I always get the same response...........a blank stare...........and then something about ARB setting prices............
I thought price fixing was illegal in this country...........maybe not for the big boys...........
-
I thought price fixing was illegal in this country...........maybe not for the big boys...........
Price fixing is when two competitors in the same market collude to fix their prices so they are the same.
A company who won't give you a discount isn't guilty of price fixing.......
Is your local ARB owned by ARB or are they an agent? My local is owned by ARB.
-
Price fixing is when two competitors in the same market collude to fix their prices so they are the same.
...or witholding stock supply if the seller doesn't sell at RRP
-
Apple is the champion of such practices. I often wonder why the worlds media is not beating them up.
-
Apple is the champion of such practices. I often wonder why the worlds media is not beating them up.
If only they were on Myswag, we could hit them up for 10% off for members. >:D
LJ
-
the first thing i took from this is oh no, cheap compition to your product. your products are not the best around, marketing and sponsorship of events sells them.
-
...or witholding stock supply if the seller doesn't sell at RRP
.........exactly............
-
As someone else has said, it's not just ARB charging a premium. Years ago when Lightforce first entered the Driving Light market my local gun shop owner was complaining that they were putting the pressure on him to increase his retail price of the remote mount spotlights. They were virtually identical to the 240 Blitz lights that had just entered the market, just a splash of red down one side was the difference. Guys like me were buying 2 remote mount 240's for cheaper than a pair of their 'driving lights'. He said that because their competitors prices were high (Hella and IPF) they could bump their driving light prices up to match. He was happy with his profit on the remote mounts but I don't know what he ended up doing.
Mark.
-
JK Wrangler new rear bar as in their latest catalogue:
Australia:
Rear Bar: $737 + Wheel Carrier $848
US:
Rear Bar: $698.97 + Wheel Carrier $813.45
There is not much difference in it but it is more the principle of ARB being an Australian company and them not looking after thier own.
-
Got nothing to do with looking after their own. It's pure economics that unfortunately many if you will never accept. You have it already formed in your mind that its a rort and no amount of info will sway you.
Don't buy the product, there you go problem solved.
-
...or witholding stock supply if the seller doesn't sell at RRP
That is very true , I have had an account closed on me by a supplier because other agents complanied I was selling the product to cheap. So the big end of town does wield some power over smaller guys.
Jetcrew :D :D
-
Gee I would hate to go grocery shopping with you guys and yes I bet your wives go to save the whinging and complaining about being ripped off as Coles has got it cheaper than woolworths ;D
Mark
-
Gee I would hate to go grocery shopping with you guys and yes I bet your wives go to save the whinging and complaining about being ripped off as Coles has got it cheaper than woolworths ;D
Mark
bastards! I went shopping at woolworths tonight, knew i should hve gone to coles. >:(
-
I did the shopping once , had a $300 budget that the Mrs shops with ,I took a calc with me and added up as I went cause i thought I would be able to sneak some extras. :cheers: :cheers:
Bloody hell I only got through half the isles and the $300 was gone.
I don't know how she does it. can feed the family on $300 but can't find shoes any cheaper go figure ;D ;D
jetcrew ;D
-
Gee I would hate to go grocery shopping with you guys and yes I bet your wives go to save the whinging and complaining about being ripped off as Coles has got it cheaper than woolworths ;D
Mark
The reason I buy gear OS is my shopping bill regularly hits $450 :'( And that is with no alcohol, crap food and a big vegie garden at home with everything home cooked. Bloody nappies and baby formula. With two girls my woolies bill will always be less than with two boys but I reckon I might have to bend over to take the clothes and shoe bills - bring on the OS clothe and shoe shopping :laugh:
-
Got nothing to do with looking after their own. It's pure economics that unfortunately many if you will never accept. You have it already formed in your mind that its a rort and no amount of info will sway you.
Don't buy the product, there you go problem solved.
By 'thier own' I am not just talking about the end consumer but also their Australian distributors. There are many examples where ARB charge the retailer more here in Aus wholesale than what you can buy it for retail in the US so it encourages people to buy from the US which results in the Aussie retailer missing out.
-
Coke also 'do it' to small retailers. The cost prices to small owner/operators is higher than the retail pricing at Coles/Woolies. So the guy walking out of Woolies with 7 cartons of coke is generally not your average Joe stocking up for xmas :)
-
By 'thier own' I am not just talking about the end consumer but also their Australian distributors. There are many examples where ARB charge the retailer more here in Aus wholesale than what you can buy it for retail in the US
Not just in the US.
I run a small IT business on the side and more often than not I can buy parts in Umart cheaper than I can buy off my wholesalers/distributors. Makes it hard to add my xx% on to make a buck when my customer says "but Umart have it cheaper". No wonder I am not making any money.
-
Coke also 'do it' to small retailers. The cost prices to small owner/operators is higher than the retail pricing at Coles/Woolies. So the guy walking out of Woolies with 7 cartons of coke is generally not your average Joe stocking up for xmas :)
Just the other day I saw an Asian lady and her son wheel their 2 trolleys full of Coke from the local Coles 20m round the corner to their '$2' shop...
And there I was thinking Coke was a stable part of an Asian's diet... ;D
-
"There are many examples where ARB charge the retailer more here in Aus wholesale than what you can buy it for retail in the US so it encourages people to buy from the US which results in the Aussie retailer missing out."
They didnt miss out, they still sold an AirLocker, Ill bet they still made money on the original sale to the US distributor
More than anything it reflects the markups the Aussie market can bear
If anything we should not buy the product at all, THEN maybe the price will drop locally.........dreamin I know!
-
If anything we should not buy the product at all, THEN maybe the price will drop locally.........dreamin I know!
This should be done to Toyota, if people actually stopped buying them they would charge a reasonable price...look how quickly they dropped the $$$ off the Hilux when it finally had some real competition. Did it suddenly become cheaper to produce the Hilux? How can they make the Grand Cherokee so cheap when for the same specs you pay double with a Toyota badge. Twice as good? NO.
-
Shock,. Horror, Oh the shame of it.
I've finally found the answer to the question I'd been asking ARB for many years now...... Why are ARB Lockers cheaper in the US than here in Oz, where they are made?
Well folks, seems ARB has shipped it's locker manufacturing over seas. Go on guess where!!!!!!
That's right the good old US of A. And that is why they are cheaper there then over here, they are no longer an Australian made product, but an imported product. By the way, most ARB products are now manufacture overseas. But I guess we should have known that already. :-(
-
Bummer that means for 4 pages of whinging and bagging ARB , they are making their gear overseas.
Here comes another 4 pages of how dare they do that, I am not buying overseas products, I am not supporting companies that don't make their products in Australia etc etc
Lmao
Mark
-
;D ;D
-
I think it's going to be more like 4 pages of "Why didn't Mr ARB just come straight out and tell us"
Would have saved us all a lot of time and arguing debating...
LJ
-
Shock,. Horror, Oh the shame of it.
I've finally found the answer to the question I'd been asking ARB for many years now...... Why are ARB Lockers cheaper in the US than here in Oz, where they are made?
Well folks, seems ARB has shipped it's locker manufacturing over seas. Go on guess where!!!!!!
That's right the good old US of A. And that is why they are cheaper there then over here, they are no longer an Australian made product, but an imported product. By the way, most ARB products are now manufacture overseas. But I guess we should have known that already. :-(
I think you have your facts wrong. Calling Sam...
-
Well folks, seems ARB has shipped it's locker manufacturing over seas. Go on guess where!!!!!!
That's right the good old US of A. And that is why they are cheaper there then over here, they are no longer an Australian made product, but an imported product. By the way, most ARB products are now manufacture overseas. But I guess we should have known that already. :-(
This is totally incorrect. Air Lockers are and always have been made in Australia.
I'd be happy to arrange for a group of Victorian MySwag representatives to come out and do a tour of the factory one night to show you our extensive manufacturing facilities in Kilsyth, and in particular, where the Air Lockers are made.
I'll even supply a few pizzas for dinner :)
Cheers, Sam.
-
Shock,. Horror, Oh the shame of it.
I've finally found the answer to the question I'd been asking ARB for many years now...... Why are ARB Lockers cheaper in the US than here in Oz, where they are made?
Well folks, seems ARB has shipped it's locker manufacturing over seas. Go on guess where!!!!!!
That's right the good old US of A. And that is why they are cheaper there then over here, they are no longer an Australian made product, but an imported product. By the way, most ARB products are now manufacture overseas. But I guess we should have known that already. :-(
I think you will find that they have more than one manufacturing plant. Lots of their gear sold in Oz is made here, a fair bit of their gear sold elsewhere in the world is made at plants OS. I can't remember where it may have been Thailand or Korea or where ever but that is what we were told when we did a tour through the Kilsyth factory. Our tour was nearly 2 years ago I think and things may have changed but there were lots of different areas in the factory making different things. I can certainly remember the compressor assembly area and locker area, we saw lots of OEM toyota bars being made, we saw the area where lockers were developed and tested, there were racks and racks of broken axles, etc in there! Fridges were developed and tested on site there although manufacture was outsourced but done to their specs, pretty much the same as the toyota bars that were being manufactured by ARB and put into boxes printed with Toyota Genuine Parts all over them...
I think it is more the design and quality control of items that is an issue, not the place of manufacture. There are plenty of items that people deem "Top Quality" that are manufactured in plants in China, a country renowned for crap products but with the correct systems in place they can produce consistently good quality items. Look at Apple, Nikon, etc...
Previous posts are saying that companies need to get with the times, realise it is a global market, etc. Here we have a company that has done this, they certainly have a massive investment and employ hundreds of people in Australia and if it was economical to manufacture everything here and export around the world I am sure they would but we all know that the manufacturing industry in Oz isn't all that competitive. It sounds like some don't like their pricing but thankfully we are a free country and one of the things that means is that companies are allowed to be privately owned and are allowed to price things to what they want. Along with being a free country, no one is forced to buy their product... If their products are so massively over priced, why are there not so many other companies producing the same products with the same quality, the same backup and same availability at a heaps cheaper price?
:cheers:
Dave
-
Well said Dave.
-
^^^x2
-
Shock,. Horror, Oh the shame of it.
I've finally found the answer to the question I'd been asking ARB for many years now...... Why are ARB Lockers cheaper in the US than here in Oz, where they are made?
Well folks, seems ARB has shipped it's locker manufacturing over seas. Go on guess where!!!!!!
That's right the good old US of A. And that is why they are cheaper there then over here, they are no longer an Australian made product, but an imported product. By the way, most ARB products are now manufacture overseas. But I guess we should have known that already. :-(
How can people just waltz in with complete lies and post it up as fact? The nature if forums is now 20 people read this fabrication and ignore everything else about the topic that is true and spread this because, to them, it has to be true to explain something they can't understand or want to believe.
Where is your actual proof of your claim?
-
Seriously, did you all miss the part where Sam said he'll supply pizza? ;D ;D ;D
-
Happy to stand corrected if my information regards the Aust plant is incorrect, however my source is also an ex ARB machinist from Melbourne who manufactured the ARB locker components. He informed me that there is a US plant making the ARB lockers for the US market.
He said US labour and material is cheaper, thus the lockers can be sold cheaper.
Now had I recieved an answer like this when I kept asking the questions at 4WD shows I would have been satisfied, as I now am.
-
Seriously, did you all miss the part where Sam said he'll supply pizza? ;D ;D ;D
I didn't, and what is a pizza without beer?
Seriously, I would love to do another tour through the place but a weeknight isn't a possibility. I would encourage as many people as possible to go along and have a look. For me it was a bit like when I took SWMBO for a tour of the HSV factory, she came out of there saying that she could now see where the added costs for a Clubbie went over that of an SS, that it looked like good value and I had approval to buy one (that I never followed up on as we bought a 4wd instead)...
:cheers:
Dave
-
Happy to stand corrected if my information regards the Aust plant is incorrect, however my source is also an ex ARB machinist from Melbourne who manufactured the ARB locker components. He informed me that there is a US plant making the ARB lockers for the US market.
He said US labour and material is cheaper, thus the lockers can be sold cheaper.
Now had I recieved an answer like this when I kept asking the questions at 4WD shows I would have been satisfied, as I now am.
Your mate told you there was a plant in the USA making lockers for the USA and you posted that they are no longer an Australian made product but an imported product??? Bit like the old Chinese whisper game where the story changes that little bit each time it is told.
:cheers:
Dave
-
Yeah! Proof or ban :police:
-
No, he told me they moved the plant to the USA, I accepted that as he was an employee. Sam has since confirmed that there is still a plant in Melb. I can only pass on the information given. I accepted it as the guy was an ARB employee and his explaination as the the reason for the price difference was plausable. If ARB would just come out with an acceptable explaination as to the price difference then we wouldn't be seeking information from alternate, less credible, sources. As I said earlier, I'd been asking for a plausable answer from ARB for many years now.
Anyway, I'll let you know in mid March when I'm back from the States with lockers for both ends.
Happy to not post here again if you guys feel agreived by my posts.
-
Will look forward to hearing about what you find at US end.
:cheers:
-
An answer was given, whether you choose to believe it is another thing
-
OK guys where`s the responses to Sams offer to tour the Kylsyth site? I`m located central Vic, count me in Sam, I don`t even expect sustenance to be supplied, I`m on a diet.
Leigh.
-
Yeah, Im up for it!
Cheers Sam.
-
Oops, wrong account.
-
No worries guys, I'll start the ball rolling at this end re a tour of the factory. It might have to be a weeknight.
I'll start a new thread to garner interest once I've confirmed a date.
Also, just to clarify, ALL Air Lockers are made in Australia, we don't make any in the US, even for the US market.
Cheers, Sam.
-
And on that note, cue Snow the locksmith...
-
This thread (and the sales one) caused me to do a bit of searching on the subject of these chinese lockers.
I've not found anyone who's had one go bang on them. plenty of people seem to have fitted them (and why wouldn't you at $650 to your door), including in comp cars but no (admitted) failures yet.
food for thought...
-
This is totally incorrect. Air Lockers are and always have been made in Australia.
I'd be happy to arrange for a group of Victorian MySwag representatives to come out and do a tour of the factory one night to show you our extensive manufacturing facilities in Kilsyth, and in particular, where the Air Lockers are made.
I'll even supply a few pizzas for dinner :)
Cheers, Sam.
How about for a local 4wd club?? If you can do it, PM me.
We have done the tour before... its really good... and yea, Shit is made here, some is made overseas these days, what big companies dont do this in 4wding???
-
And on that note, cue Snow the locksmith...
;D No-one has lost an eye yet, and there is still some value in the exchanges with Sam so happy to keep it rolling.
But if it becomes an aimless circular tit 4 tat then yeah, it will time to move it on.
:cheers:
-
I don't see what's so hard to understand? You send container after container of product that was built from raw material straight to the container with no need to warehouse. Container freight is relatively cheap, especially out bound. Then look at that against 10% of that volume warehoused here, freighted all over Aus in ones and twozees then held by resellers on their shelves..? volume is everything. Most retailers in this country would be scraping turnovers touching $1m if they are lucky. How big are the retailers that sell these lockers cheap?? I dunno but it’s not inconceivable that one locker retailer in the US would move more ARB lockers through their doors than the entire Australian market.
Add to that the simple fact that Australian consumers do not offer the same competition domestically so we pay more for goods across the board than Americans do. There is 300+ million of the bastards.. Of course they can command better pricing.
And finally, if you think rec retail pricing on most consumer goods is linked to cost of production then you're living in a dream world. Rec retail is based on market pressure and product positioning. In Aus the ARB product is offered as a premium brand into a market still prepared to pay top dollar. If you want the premium product without the local top dollar price tag, buy it from the States. When enough people do it and the world becomes truly global then ARB lockers will be 30% cheaper.. But, don’t bitch when they are made in India coz if you want global pricing you have to accept global manufacturing..
-
Some time ago, long time before this post and the last post about ARB and Chinese lockers, there was a post asking if anyone had tried a Chinese locker. I can't find the original post but in that post someone had attached a test that ARB had done on their locker and as they called it a Chinese copy.
I have reposted the Youtube clip.
ARB Air Locker Comparison (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewt7f-h8Wn4#ws)
The question that I have is this.
How many ARB lockers were tested before they were able to have such a high reading on their test machine, and how many Chinese lockers were tested before ARB was able to find one that failed at a lot lower test results?
-
surely you're not suggesting the clip is biased duggie? :D
Next you'll be telling me that Today Tonight isn't top drawer journalism
-
The question that I have is this.
How many ARB lockers were tested before they were able to have such a high reading on their test machine, and how many Chinese lockers were tested before ARB was able to find one that failed at a lot lower test results?
Really? How wildly do you think products like this vary in test like that?? I'm mean the same product.. Take 10 units all made from the same material with the same machining process and test them to distruction.. If you can't get almost 100% predicatability then your manufacturing process is rubbish. In fact I'd bet hard cash ARB can model the destruction of their locker on the computer to within 0.5% of actual. They will know which bit goes first and they will know what has to happen for it to go. From my experience with Chinese clones I put the same hard cash down that what you just saw was the very first time the chinese clone had been tested to destruction
All that said, all that test is telling us is that the ARB unit is stronger than a Landcruiser axle and that the Chinese one isn't.. I guess that's ok if you plan to test the limits of your Landcruiser.. Personally I'd like to know how long that rubbish surface finish lasts before you wear it away, or how they heat treat the gears, or what sort of bearings are used. At the end of the day the longevity of the product is what we as consumers are most conserned about.
What did our dads always say? 'A poor man always pays twice'
-
Well after considering all the facts I could find and comparing the price difference I have just ordered and paid for my Genuine ARB locker from my local store.
Both the copy and the import option were considered, but the $$$ saving seemed a false econmy given the way ARB backs thier locker locally. I have used them many times before and been involved in a few little races where 60 trucks over 10 days could not break one. So that is a good enough reason for me to pay the little extra.and get the genuine item.
Got the special deal a rear locker fitted and air compressor (I fit) for $1688.00.
This includes a nation wide waranty.
Just my 2cents worth ,but a worthy thread as it gives people more info and allows them to make thier own decisions .
Jetcrew ;D ;D
-
Congrats JC, you will love having it. Mine have been worked pretty hard in playtime at Glasshouse Mountains, and have been flawless - only issues I've had were a plug coming off the compressor which is under the front passenger seat, and the small fuse blowing (could not find a fault so replaced it and put a spare in the glovebox). I have a genuine airline repair kit in the spares box too, and have worked out how I could bypass relay/solenoids/pressure switch etc. if I ever have to - just in case, but it's those bits that would let you down before the lockers themselves failed.
-
I've just read this entire thread......
Where is the panadol.
-
As promised, I've finally found time to get back to you on my Lockers.
Purchased front and rear ARB lockers and the little ARB air compressor when in the USA from Rocky Road Outfitters. All up savings over buying local, AU$850.
The ARB gear was all MADE IN AUSTRALIA, contry to the misinformation I had been previously given.
A savings of $400 per locker from a US supplier clearly demonstrates to me the real price of the lockers is at least half of what we are forced to pay here in Oz (and they aren't selling at a loss). Sure population in US are higher, and theirs greater competition. Given a world wide market this should show some dividens here in Oz also. Alas my disillusionment with ARB continues, probably more so then ever now.
On the up side I now have a set of the best manually operated lockers available and I payed the right price for them. I'll be buying most stuff from the US now given the cost savings and market forces obviously in play over there, especially any future ARB stuff.
Now, what savings can I make on a rear wheel carrier for my deluxe ARB bar in the US I wonder? *sigh*
-
Can I get a bullbar in the U.S. for half the price? I need one for my new Workmate. I wish I knew that before I had Toyota install a rear locker. Could have save 1500
-
What about ARB Fridge prices around the $1000.00 mark in Aus but under $800.00 in the US hmmmm do they manufacture them in the USA also? I thought they were all made in China?
I spoke to a ARB rep in Vic a couple years ago and he was embarrassed to say that even he feels that ARB were making fools of us here in AU as he could not explain the price differences...
There was a show on the box a while ago talking about how on the East Coast a product could be sold for twice the price as on the West because on the east coast people were prepared to pay that figured (that Swedish Ikia stuff) I expect ARB do the same we in Aus are happy to pay the inflated price so why drop it....
I will only ever buy ARB when there is nothing better out there for a price I am prepared to pay... If they were more honest and changed their pricing to something more respectable then I would stop buying OS rubbish..
I do own a 46litre ARB Fridge and a ARB awning only because 2 years ago the options weren't there.... I feel that ARB catter for cashed up yuppies and there 4x4... A bloke I see at work (IBM) bought a new 75 Series and I recon it went straight to ARB for a Bull Bar Warn winch, LR Tank, Roof Rack, Awning etc etc all ARB accessories... Looks good but anyone can do that if they were cashed up.... see it all the time in Canberra....
-
What about ARB Fridge prices around the $1000.00 mark in Aus but under $800.00 in the US hmmmm do they manufacture them in the USA also? I thought they were all made in China?
I spoke to a ARB rep in Vic a couple years ago and he was embarrassed to say that even he feels that ARB were making fools of us here in AU as he could not explain the price differences...
There was a show on the box a while ago talking about how on the East Coast a product could be sold for twice the price as on the West because on the east coast people were prepared to pay that figured (that Swedish Ikia stuff) I expect ARB do the same we in Aus are happy to pay the inflated price so why drop it....
I will only ever buy ARB when there is nothing better out there for a price I am prepared to pay... If they were more honest and changed their pricing to something more respectable then I would stop buying OS rubbish..
I do own a 46litre ARB Fridge and a ARB awning only because 2 years ago the options weren't there.... I feel that ARB catter for cashed up yuppies and there 4x4... A bloke I see at work (IBM) bought a new 75 Series and I recon it went straight to ARB for a Bull Bar Warn winch, LR Tank, Roof Rack, Awning etc etc all ARB accessories... Looks good but anyone can do that if they were cashed up.... see it all the time in Canberra....
Yes but the ARB fridge is still cheaper than the other two quality alternatives ie Engel and Waeco.
-
Im definately not a cashed up "yuppie", I simply choose ARB gear because its as good or better than anything else.
And as usual this is now way off topic.
-
I love you guys buying ARB gear ;D
(http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/imageChart.axd?s=ARP&pi=Stock&ct=3&tf=M3&ovs=&si=Code not supplied&tima1=0&tima2=0&bi=9&bima=0&comt=index&ds=ARP&dovs=0&ex=ASX&ex2=ASX&val=1&stmp=20120506203755156)
-
Yes but the ARB fridge is still cheaper than the other two quality alternatives ie Engel and Waeco.
ARB fridges are now made by Waeco, (previously made by Engel) as is the Opposite Lock fridge 8)
Baz.
-
ARB fridges are now made by Waeco, (previously made by Engel) as is the Opposite Lock fridge 8)
Baz.
G'day Baz, just to clarify, our fridges are actually manufactured by Dometic (Waeco is just one of their brands) to our specs. The only thing that's similar is the Danfoss compressor which is used in the majority of 12v fridges on the market. Everything else is unique to the ARB range.
Cheers, Sam.
P.S, I agree with Moto Mech, this is now getting off topic.
-
Thanks Sam for the clarification, got any Snorkles for the Amarok in stock yet :angel:
Baz.
-
Thanks Sam for the clarification, got any Snorkles for the Amarok in stock yet :angel:
Baz.
Part number is now listed on the Safari website Baz and we'll be getting them very soon.
Cheers, Sam.
-
As promised, I've finally found time to get back to you on my Lockers.
Purchased front and rear ARB lockers and the little ARB air compressor when in the USA from Rocky Road Outfitters. All up savings over buying local, AU$850.
The ARB gear was all MADE IN AUSTRALIA, contry to the misinformation I had been previously given.
A savings of $400 per locker from a US supplier clearly demonstrates to me the real price of the lockers is at least half of what we are forced to pay here in Oz (and they aren't selling at a loss). Sure population in US are higher, and theirs greater competition. Given a world wide market this should show some dividens here in Oz also. Alas my disillusionment with ARB continues, probably more so then ever now.
On the up side I now have a set of the best manually operated lockers available and I payed the right price for them. I'll be buying most stuff from the US now given the cost savings and market forces obviously in play over there, especially any future ARB stuff.
Now, what savings can I make on a rear wheel carrier for my deluxe ARB bar in the US I wonder? *sigh*
Sam,
No response to this post?
-
Sam,
No response to this post?
Sam has peviously responded to this type of query. I woud imagine he would rather not get into ongoing online discussions every time its brought up. His previous response is as follows:
Hi guys, I've done a bit of digging around re Air Locker pricing in Australia and the US and can offer the following.
The RRP of an Air Locker in Australia and the US is actually not all that different. Using the Landcruiser 100 Series as an example, the RRP of a rear locker in the US is US$1095.00 (web link) and in Australia it's AUS$1108.00 (+GST). Depending on the US state, there may also be sales tax on top of the listed RRP.
The heavily discounted pricing that can be found in the US actually comes primarily at a reseller level. With a much larger market (ie greater sales volume) and subsequently a higher level of competition, the resellers have a tendency to discount prices and make a minimal margin to remain competitive.
We are even aware of some US resellers using the Air Locker brand as a ‘loss leader’ due to its popularity. This means they’re happy to sell an Air Locker at a loss in order to attract new customers and generate exposure to their wider product range. This in turn puts even greater pressure on other stockists to reduce prices.
Furthermore, many of the discount sellers in the US are solely web based and therefore don't have showrooms or offer fitting services like our Australian network which substantially reduces their overheads.
Obviously, the strong Aussie dollar at the moment is exacerbating any price difference and, in the ideal world, we'd increase the price in the US to account for this. However, with current market conditions in the US, this is just not commercially viable.
For comparison's sake, our Australian pricing is actually pretty competitive with our main competitors. For example, a rear Pro Locker for a 100 Series Cruiser is $1167.00 (+GST) so it's really more a matter of US resellers discounting than Australian pricing being excessive.
Hope this helps explain things a bit.
-
Thanks Mace, you've pretty much nailed it.
I can't really add much else to the statement we've already made without sending this thread around in circles.
Cheers, Sam.
-
How about ARB "use the Air Locker brand as a ‘loss leader’ due to its popularity" for a week or 2.. I reckon sales would x10 overnight. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
PS. I dont need 1
PPS.. waiting on phone call bout the tour :) Thanks for info
-
Thanks Mace, you've pretty much nailed it.
I can't really add much else to the statement we've already made without sending this thread around in circles.
Cheers, Sam.
Yep, and like Sam I have nothing more to add to the argument. We agree to stand on opposite sides of this fence.