MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Toey on June 02, 2011, 10:48:28 AM
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Hi all,
We are looking at upgrading our old Jayco and I’ve been doing a fair bit of research. One thing I’d like more info on is the vast price difference in camper trailers.
Ok, I get that quality of build and components will always be a factor but I don’t get why there’s such a gap between top price and cheap.
For example
Conqueror UV-490 – approx $50K
Camprite TL8s – approx $40K
Kimberly Kamper – approx $30K
Jayco (outback) – between $20 and $30plus
Modcon Campers – approx $20K
Johnnos Campers – approx $10K
Ezytrail /Aussie campers – sub $10K
(these are just ball park figures I’ve gather from the interwebs over the past month or so)
I know it will be similar to a car – Great Wall, Ford, Audi, Ferrari etc, but I understand where the price difference comes from with car. I’m not sure I get where the difference is in camper trailers. Well, I guess I do, but can’t grasp the huge gap in prices. Surely the welding, canvas, suspension, etc can’t be worth 4 times the amount of the cheaper trailers.
I’m not trying to start a war of words or a pissing contest, I’m just trying to understand if this is true – “you get what you pay for” when it comes to camper trailers. (all things really!)
And don’t get me started on the aesthetics versus practical argument – the wife and I have that one all the time!!!!
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Lots of factors at play here...
Is the trailer made in China or Australia, is a big one. Same goes for the canvas and most of the other components.
How many batteries does it come with, and what size and level of quality are they? You can put one battery in for $80, or two for $700, depending on what you want/need.
The expensive ones you mention come with one or more fridges. Nothing under $20k comes with a fridge.
What tyres are on it? Chinese HTs, or 17" BFG TA KM2? Does the axle use parallel bearings? Does it have brakes?
Do you get stabilizers or are they an added cost? Stoneguard? 12v pump on the water tank? Kitchen bench, or gourmet kitchen?
Does the starting price mean it has a normal road hitch? If so, add $200-500 for the hitch you want.
Etc...
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Hi Toey,
I guess before you can compare prices you first have to compare apples with apples.
For example compare soft floor with soft floor and hard floor with hard floor.
Hard floor compaired to soft floor will always give you a huge price difference.
Then after the equal /equal standings what are the xtras and styles. Eg: on road , off road, X-stream off road and so on.
I agree some of the prices are over the top but yes you do get what you pay for and yes you will always pay extra for the WANT factor.
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I’m just trying to understand if this is true – “you get what you pay for” when it comes to camper trailers. (all things really!)
YEs.
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Price is also driven by what the market will pay and camper trailers are in a boom time and many maufacturers can barely keep up with demand. I've just taken delivery of one of the more expensive options on the market. I love the features and most importantly I can set it up easily alone but I'll be honest, I don't see the full value in the materials and workmanship.
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OK, I didn't take into account soft/hard.
But the options like batteries, solar, fridges etc would be excluded in this example. I guess I'm wondering if the $30K stock camper is actually worth $20K more than a stock $10 camper - both being soft floor.
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OK, I didn't take into account soft/hard.
But the options like batteries, solar, fridges etc would be excluded in this example. I guess I'm wondering if the $30K stock camper is actually worth $20K more than a stock $10 camper - both being soft floor.
Your question is too open. Pick 2 brands and then line them up and ask the question.
Compare a Camprite or Kimberley to a bolt together thing some companies are now selling.
Have you looked at any of these trailers to see the actual quality of them compared to others - the welding, quality of components etc? You may find out it stands out like whale balls on a mozzie in most cases.
Different canvas, different materials in the trailer, 300000000 variables
I stand by my Yes answer.
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you will find that a $30k soft floor uses named components, that are generally more expensive - even if the specs are the same..
an example would be cTek chargers against projecta charges, they both do the same job, but one costs more...
when you start to look at every little thing on the camper that has this option, it all adds up..
all extra welding and the like takes extra time, (more labour) so you pay for that too.
i agree that the answer is Yes. you get what you pay for.
dan
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OK, I didn't take into account soft/hard.
But the options like batteries, solar, fridges etc would be excluded in this example. I guess I'm wondering if the $30K stock camper is actually worth $20K more than a stock $10 camper - both being soft floor.
Once you look more closely you'll see that stock does not mean the same thing for the two campers in your example. The $30K stock camper will have independant suspension and brakes to start with where the $10K won't. Stock on the $30K camper will include a lot of things like kitchen, fridges etc etc that would be options on the $10K camper. When people pay $30K for a camper they expect a lot of things to come as "stock". If you start with a $10K camper and start adding options the price quickly rises. E.g a water tank $600ish, electric brakes $800ish, off road hitch $300ish and up, kitchens can be $1000+, more expensive models include side access hatches - no idea how much these cost to get added and so on
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OK, I'm getting the picture. Just like build a PC. Different brands/components etc. Once mods upgrades are adding the price changes.
Thanks for all the feedback and comments.
This had been enlightening.
I'm in the mind to get a camper trailer, but the Minister for Fun and Finance is keen on a Jayco. We'll see what we end up with!
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But the options like batteries, solar, fridges etc would be excluded in this example. I guess I'm wondering if the $30K stock camper is actually worth $20K more than a stock $10 camper - both being soft floor.
Earle covered this - they are not excluded when you are spending the big bucks.
If you were to line up the basic empty trailers from each manufacturer then it would be a different story, but you can't do that, the $30k trailer isn't available as a $8k trailer.
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Price is also driven by what the market will pay and camper trailers are in a boom time and many maufacturers can barely keep up with demand. I've just taken delivery of one of the more expensive options on the market. I love the features and most importantly I can set it up easily alone but I'll be honest, I don't see the full value in the materials and workmanship.
I agree with this entirelly.
I've just spent $20,000 on a mid brand, quality, soft floor.
With regards to the trailer, it is solid as, the welds are excellent and full length, the design is fantastic, the added options are built into the structure of the trailer, not bolted on.
The tailgate for example would be a good place to see the difference. Our trailer is also fully dust sealed with automotive door seals.
There's a large checkerplate tool box on the front. That's probably near enough to $1,000 there. It has locks, hinges, gas struts, and automotive dust sealing.
It has electric brakes.
The tent is a great design and not just a tent. There are lots of windows, flaps, doors, zips and great quality.
All of the components are quality components. The dual batteries it came with are Trojan AGM. Brand new Maxxis A/T tyres. Anderson plug wired in through the duragal draw bar to the batteries.
twin water tanks, electric pump in the sink, carpet inside the trailer, specially built roller drawer that supports 150KG.
The list goes on and on in terms of "extra bits and pieces" and quality components.
I also have a basic 7 x 4 box trailer. It only cost $1,500 but it came with retreads, no spare and is a basic, thin, trailer with nothing else.
Can I see the difference? Absolutely.
Am I happy with the purchase? Absolutely, I think I got a great deal for $20,000.
Can I see $20,000 worth of materials and workmanship? Well $20k is a lot of money !!!!! But it all adds up.
Yes you get what you pay for. Keep in mind that the % profit is similar. If you're selling a $6,000 trailer, you probably make $1,200 and you need to sell lots. You sell a $20,000 trailer and you probably make $4,000 and you sell less.
Another "hidden" cost is warranty. If you buy a cheap bolt together job, there is very little factored in for warranty. A part of my purchase goes to warranty costs, whether I need it or not. Much like insurance.
And all of that is without talking about service. There is a difference between the service you get when you spend $6,000 and when you spend $60,000. HAS to be. But all that costs money.
Anyway this turned out to be a much bigger post than I intended, kinda got on a roll. :)
BTW, we did the "Do we want a Jayco Swan Outback or a strong Off Road camper" as well. You'll eventually figure it out and I am sure will be very happy with whichever way you go. We decided to go CT for flexibility BUT we decided to go good quality, finished product, not basic trailer and tent and we'll add it late.
Cheers,
Jason.
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I'm in the mind to get a camper trailer, but the Minister for Fun and Finance is keen on a Jayco. We'll see what we end up with!
Looks like it going to be a Jayco. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I guess I'm wondering if the $30K stock camper is actually worth $20K more than a stock $10 camper - both being soft floor.
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Yes
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Welcome to the conundrum my friend. When you work it out keep quiet and watch the threads - It's only then that you realise that you haven't worked it out!!!! We are sooooo spoilt for choice.
Regards
Mark (who recommends Tambo)
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This really is a personal question, how much are you prepared to pay for something that will get used x number of days a year. You don't need the most expensive camper to see Aus. Look at Rich for example, a good camper that has seen more of Aus than most campers will see in their lives and cost less than $10K. Now if he did it with a $50K camper would he have had a better trip?
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I recall seeing a post here about someone who built their own camper using only quality components and at the end of the day the difference between building it/buying it new from one of the big boys was negligible...
So yeah, there is a lot of difference between the cheaper/more expensive trailers.
But that's coming from someone who spent a heap on an Ulti, but I think it's worth every cent
Cheers
George
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Classic example,
Why does the Goldstream equivalent cost more than the Jayco Swan when they are kitted out very similar?
Build quality. One look at both and you can see where the money is and i know which one i would rather be towing at the middle of knowhere.
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This really is a personal question, how much are you prepared to pay for something that will get used x number of days a year. You don't need the most expensive camper to see Aus. Look at Rich for example, a good camper that has seen more of Aus than most campers will see in their lives and cost less than $10K. Now if he did it with a $50K camper would he have had a better trip?
Same ..... 8.5k. Was second hand and like Rich, has seen most of Aus. About to hit the Gulf in two weeks then the Cape. Ours doesn't leak, not much to go wrong, we have a kitchen and it handles the out back roads just fine :angel:
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If in dought ask them if they mind you getting an engineeres report done then watch them sweat.
We purchased an ezy trailer (I KNOW DON"T BUY CHEAP) we had loads of issues with it . Consumer affairs have a list of complaints from them. It failed my engineeres report so badly they would not let me tow it home, I had to get a tandem. We now have a cup and very happy with it .
Remember all replies are of personal experience.
Cheers
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I had a trailer built using the best of everything, plenty of variations from standard and by a recognised hard floor CT manufacturer. I would have no doubt there would only be a handful of more expensive CTs around - if indeed any. When the manufacturer was putting it in a show a month or so later, I asked him "what will you say if somebody asks you for one exactly the same?" - to which he replied "I'd say no".
I pressed him with "But really, somebody says that's exactly what I want, build it for me - what would you do?".
He thought about it and replied, "Charge them a lot more". I reckon that says it all. Naturally a production CT will always cost less than a custom, but at the end of the day there are a lot more built down to a price than up to a standard.
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If SWMBO wins and you do get a Jayco, get a couple of painter's drop sheets to put over your bedding becos it will leak like a sieve, a good broom to sweep up all the staples which will fall out and a 10-litre water can to provide water to the sink becos the hose connection will always blow off when you turn the pressure on. Oh, and don't start me on the awnings over the pull-out beds which would not be necessary if the pull-out bed covers were made of decent waterproof canvas in the first place.
A Black Wolf tent is about one tenth of the price, easier to put up and a lot better made.
Cheers, Tony
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We've owned campers from $3k to $30k and while we like the Goldstream, we did enjoy our cheap chinese models.
We never took them too far off road and it was really just a tent on wheels.
They both do the job but everything on the $30k model is better quality and looks much cooler.
So the real answer is that the more you spend the more stuff you can talk about around the camp fire.
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We bought a hard floor ( after having owned a soft floor for 10 yrs ) for ease and speed of setting up, and the same reason for packing up, plus the advantage of being off the ground ( never liked packing the soft floor away after being sitting in water and dirt )..
Never liked climbing over the missus in the middle of the night to have a pee ( admittently it wasn't needed if I didn't drink so much beer ! ;D )
The all in one intergrated kitchen is a major plus, as is all the other features you get with a hard floor..plus with it getting used at least 20 times a year, you are pretty sure nothing is going to wrong with it ..
As for why the price difference ?? same as the price difference in cars.....are you prepared to pay for "better" quality or are you happy to settle for a cheaper version ( don't forget, they all do a similar job ? )
I always like the analogy of the bloke who had a nice shiny new 100 series with a cheap soft floor and he said to me he coudn't understand why I had bought an expensive KK ???? what the ??
Everyones priorities ( and money ) are always going to be different !!
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This thread is getting tedious.
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It just comes down to personal likes and needs are, and some need more than others plus what you are willing to pay.
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OK, I'm getting the picture. Just like build a PC. Different brands/components etc. Once mods upgrades are adding the price changes.
Exactly. Compare something like a Macbook pro, with a mid-range HP laptop, down to an Acer/Asus/whatever from JB hifi. They all "do the same thing", but it's how much value you place on the quality of the product (laptop or camper trailer).
I like the battery comparison. My 100Ah battery cost just over $300 (and the full electrical fitout is over $1000 so far...). My father-in-law's 100Ah battery cost just on $100. They both "do the same thing" as far as providing 100Ah of juice goes, but I could see the value in a deep-cycle AGM, whereas my FIL valued the fact he could do his entire electrical fitout for less than the cost of my battery alone.
Likewise the Toyota comparison. You can buy a brand new top of the range Patrol for less money than a bottom of the range Landcruiser. Yet you still see plenty of 'cruisers around because people value their reputation and their amazing resale.
Me? I have champagne taste on a beer budget ;D.
Good luck!
Matto :)
(the tedious king!)
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The only way you will see what value lies where is to do this in a more factual way. Open up a microsoft spreadsheet ... have headed colums ... one lists the "things" and the next lists "what you get CT # 1" and the next lists "what you get CT # 2" and so on. Compare your apples, your oranges, and your passionfruit side by side and you will SEE the differences in quality and quantity straight away.
That's how we picked "our" CT ... we compared the contenders side by side just like I've suggested above ... and went with the one that "we" considered to be better value. We also took into account before, during and after sales assistance (which made a big difference to us).
Kit_e
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Now that the ref has stepped in I feel safe to post my views.
Camping is so subjective. What one person see's as needs will not even fall onto the radar of another person, Value for money will also be seen in the same terms. I would personally struggle to pay $30k+ for a camper (a glorified tent on wheels), But as a camper perve I can appreciate the quality and workmanship that goes into them.
My first camper was a 30 year old Jayco that was the perfect introduction to camping with my kids (SWMBO wont camp) that showed us the direction we wanted to go with our next camper. The next is a 10yo basic soft floor purchased for $3.5k, A dry tent, A bed for me, Enough room for the 4 of us and no kitchen, Wouldn't suit everyone but suits us.
It's only when you look at the market, New or used, with your needs and wants that you start to see the value in a price range.
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I firmly believe that, when buying new, largely one gets the camper one pays for. The second hand market is a whole other deal, and depends on supply and demand, of that model new, of other comparable 2nd hand units and also what the buyer perceives as value.
Reputation counts for lots, those with a solid reputation for quality and longevity continue to attract high prices, late 90s model Kimberley's for eg still attract nearly $20K, where plenty of brand new soft floors with plenty of features can't ask that up front.
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you must remember, when you buy a top speced camper the the factory includes things like a fridge, they are going to put there mark up on it. And more than likely your buying there name. you can buy a 10k CT and spec it up to the max and not spend the extra 20k like they wanted. also you can do a lot of repairs (lets face it, even the top of the line 35k CT will have something go wrong) for that extra 20K.
I also see it as a time thing, if u have time to buy a 10K and do some work your self you can save tons, or if u want to call, the dealer, purchase and tow it away to your first camp, that comes at a price. So i guess, conveniance has its price too.
With our CT, im quite handy and im a stay at home dad, so i have the time and ability to modify my self, as apposed to taking to a repairer/engineer to be modified.
IMHO
Cheers
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Now that the ref has stepped in I feel safe to post my views.
What you talking bout Willis! LOL! Maybe I should have just said this:
It's only when you look at the market, New or used, with your needs and wants that you start to see the value in a price range.
... might have saved everyone 10 minutes reading my reply ... ;D
Kit_e
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Nothing to do with your post Kit e, you must have missed the cat fight in this thread last week. Any hoo all is good now. :cheers: