MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tracey family on January 06, 2011, 07:18:44 AM
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Just wanted to urge everyone to make sure they give their kids lots of experience on dirt roads. We are surrounded by dirt roads here - most of them with a loose gravel surface. I was never taught to drive on dirt, neither was my husband and though we did tell my daughter she needed to slow down and be more careful, we didn't actually take her out on the dirt much at all. She got her P's 3 weeks ago and when a friend from the coast came to visit, she and her friends decided to show him a bit of the countryside. This was the result;
(http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/GlenyseT/Shans%20accident/CopyofIMG_0406.jpg)
(http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/GlenyseT/Shans%20accident/IMG_0409.jpg)
(http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/GlenyseT/Shans%20accident/IMG_0408.jpg)
All four got out with relatively minor injuries thank God, but it could easily have been a tragedy. There was no speeding involved, in fact she was well under her 90km speed limit and they weren't being silly. They simply hit a pretty big pothole which sent them towards the table drain. Thinking she was going to roll the car into the drain she overcorrected and speared across the road into the a tree.
The next day another car full of teenagers rolled their car on another local dirt road. Similar circumstances, similar result.
So please give your kids plenty of dirt road experience. My daughter is alive but is mentally very fragile and very reluctant to drive with passengers (but at least she's back in a car). It was a horrible thing to go through as a parent, especially knowing that you may have been able to prevent it.
Glenyse
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I am glad to hear every one is OK, it is a shame that most young people are taught how to get their licence but not taught the dangers of what a car & inexperience can do.
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Had a similar thing happen with one of the kids, its a hard way to learn but one you remember for life, glad to hear there was no major injuries.
Wil
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Wholly crap guys , a hard lesson but one that sticks with her for a long time , probably not a bad thing she doesn't want to take passengers any more whether they r being silly or not u put friends in a car and levels of concentration etc change automatically. So glad they are all ok all the best from Peta and I .
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Wow - glad to hear they're all ok.
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Glad all are okay. Same sort of thing happened to me we i was younger. I had a front wheel drive car, which as we all know now handle totally different in loose gravel then rear wheel drive cars.
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I to have done a similar thing to dads 2YO VH Commodore many years ago, on my own and lack of driving experiance, (ended up on the flip side) even though I grew up on the dirt and hardly knew what the black stuff was.
glad everyone was OK in this one,
can't help but wonder if every would have come out as well in an older car without the air bags and crumple zones.............
cheers
Garry
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I learnt to drive on dirt roads (at least hooning around on them). Not necessarily responsible in hindsight, but learning to manage a car on loose uneven surfaces is great experience. When something happens on the black top you have some chance of resurrecting the situation because its something you learnt to do.
Its part of the problem with getting a licence - we are taught to pass a test and drive according to the rules, but we aren't taught to drive (how to manage the car when its not obeying the rules).
Very glad to hear that all are ok.
Richard
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Yep Garry, she might have air bag burns all over her face but better that than a steering wheel to the face. Every one of them has the bruises to show how effective seatbelts are.
We didn't want to get her one of those tiny little girly cars because of the safety aspect and I was pleased we could get something with 2 airbags without spending a fortune - a decision that paid off. Great little car - a 1994 Mazda 323 Astina. She adored it but unfortunately it was only insured third party, fire and theft :'( Wouldn't hesitate to buy another one the same after this and wouldn't even consider buying one without airbags.
On the downside, the worst injury was from the passengers side airbag. The girl in that seat put her hand out to brace and coped the full force of the airbag when it went off - badly dislocated wrist and a pretty bad cut on her palm. I didn't realise the airbags covers aren't hinged. There is a solid metal plate behind it so when it goes off it blows with enough force to bend that piece of metal ( you can see it in the photo). We tried to bend it back down and it won't budge. So I'm suprised it was a dislocation and not a fracture - she can't have had her hand right on top of it.
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When I was 15 I use to go Fishing/Crabbing with Dad and he use to drive on the black top, once we hit the dirt I would take over the driving duties. While technically illegal if something happen to Dad I had to know how to get both of us to safety should the need ever apply. Plus it gave me valuable experience in driving on dirt & mud while towing a boat.
What I learnt then was invaluable on upstanding how a car handles and I still use those skills now. I still remember taking 30 minutes to reverse the boat down the dirt boat ramp and once I did it was told to do it again and again (Perfect place to learn seeing no one else was in sight – So once I turned 17 and got my licence boat ramps were a piece of cake)
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I learnt to ride motorbikes on the dirt. Between paddick bashing and off road racing by the time I got my open license (at 15 due to New Zealand laws) and moved on to high powered missiles, my natural reactions and off road skills pulled me out of a lot of situations, more so when I discovered Tassie and snow and ice...(oh and there was a hell of a lot of luck that saved me as well).
If I had boys and they were interested in bikes I would have them riding off road well before they looked at there licenses but fortunately I have girls and dainty ones at that.
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I agree there should be more time spent on gravel /dirt roads, whilst a p plater is learning, but again it depends on a lot a factors.
Time and experience is a priceless asset, which parents can pass onto their learner driver apprentices, in between the rebutals and the back chat from the know it all learner driver.
I have found that simulated computer games, ie rally games at timezone, is a good foundation, there is some feedback co-orindation between changing gears, braking and steering, but they will get the general idea of speed and dirt racing. The added bonus is that they are seated and not powering down the road a breakneak speed.
I put my 1st daughter through 10 hours of that rally games at timezone over 12 months, cost about $200 to $300 in coin, but it was fun.
There is a technique to driving on dirt roads, obviously lowering speed helps, but watching for diffent cambers on corners, loose centre gravel, tyre ruts, clay washouts and greasy and wet surface.
Over the years of being involved with amateur rallying on dirt/gravel roads, the best advice to any new driver, is don't keep the vehicle stable like you drive on the black top, always try to keep the vehicle in a minor unbalanced state, which means always giving minor corrections into the steering, similar to driving a old HR or a tractor with the wobbly steering.
You have to drive on gravel/dirt roads by the feel of the vehicle under your butt, it sounds wierd but after some experience, you will generally get the hang of it, with higher 4x4, this even more important and if travelling with a trailer on behind, even more important still.
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Although P-platers are in the higher percentage of accidents, I think accidents like this can happen to any driver. We should all think about this next time we drive on a dirt road.
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Hi Glenyse,
Cars are replaceable Kids are not.
I think all young drivers have an accident at some time, ours did.
We considered ourselves lucky, the kids learnt a lesson and all survived.
It is only if they don't learn from it that you really have to worry.
I am very, very, happy that your kids are all OK
Cheers
Parry
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Thanks Parry, "Cars are replaceable, kids are not" has been the phrase of the week here.
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Sorry to hear that your daughter had a crash, but this is how they learn.
I think the best thing a responsible parent could do for their child is to buy them a Defensive Driving Course for Xmas or Birthday. It shows that you are serious about their safety and they learn how to control the car (something a driving instructor won't teach them).
Kit_e
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Nasty..... very lucky kids...just lack of experience,, ..
Shannons a tough Kid, she'll get through it OK,, give her our best..
Steve
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If you can walk away from it its a leson well learned
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It's a timely reminder for us. My son booked his driving test this morning. He hasn't done any dirt road driving so far, so it's something I should try and get for him. I also intend to book him into an advanced driver course.
Mal
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As much as i agree with the advanced driver training for the young ones... it also makes me wonder... are they then going to think they can handle everything that comes there way.???? you can here them now,,,, I done the course..... i can handle that corner.! Hmm does make you think..
I think Speewa hit the nail on the head...
" If you can walk away from it, it's a lesson well learned."
Steve
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Glad everyone was not seriously hurt,
As a babe in the woods (36) i still believe we can all benifit from time & education behind the wheel, i average about 85000kms a year in all sorts of terrain & i'm still learning.
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As much as i agree with the advanced driver training for the young ones... it also makes me wonder... are they then going to think they can handle everything that comes there way.???? you can here them now,,,, I done the course..... i can handle that corner.! Hmm does make you think..
I think Speewa hit the nail on the head...
" If you can walk away from it, it's a lesson well learned."
Steve
I'd have to disagree on both statements guys, most teens today think they are capable of a lot more than they actually are so I think if you arm them with as many skills as possible through driver training courses such as Advanced Driver Training and Defensive Driver courses you are arming them with skills to avoid accidents... I'd be stuffed if I'd want my daughter to learn about driver skills by slamming her car into a tree.
Better that they be cocky behind the wheel WITH skills than without.
Not trying to have crack Just my opinion
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Good point !
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Firstly I am glad no one was seriously hurt but yes it probably could have been avioded !!
I was lucky I grew up and learnt to drive where the only roads were unsealed and was driving on the farm with the guidance of my Dad that was a very good driver from about 9 or 10 years old, so I have never had any problems controlling a vehicle in most cases.
But it is my opinion that everyone learning to drive should be required to go through defensive driving training so they can learn to control a vehicle in most situations not only in normal circumstances before they can obtain there license, driving in normal situations is relatively easy but its when normal goes out the window, thats when the driver needs the confidence and skills to know what to do to try and keep the vehicle under control. A responsible parent would not hesitate to put their children through a defensive driving course, I know I will be!
It also doesnt hurt to get your children behind the wheel early on (off of public roads of course) if one or both of the parents are experienced in defensive driving they should pass on those skills to their children. (if you are not a confident or experienced defensive driver let the profesionals do it because you can put your child in danger)
Teaching your child to drive or puttong them through training several years before they are able to get their license is not being an irresponsible parent its giving your child valuble driving experience before they hit the public roads and having to deal with all the distractions along with the irresponsible and inexperienced drivers, it would be giving your child the best start of their driving life possible.
Getting your child involved in a driving sport e.g go carts is also a great way to give them experience before they hit the roads and great fun aswell, it also helps them develop a respect for the dangers of driving and to gain an understanding of the consequences of not being responsible when in control of a motor vehicle.
The more experience that your child can get before they get their licence the better.
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A responsible parent would not hesitate to put their children through a defensive driving course, I know I will be!
I will assume you meant no offence by that comment. Anyone who knows our family will argue that we are far from irresponsible parents.
If only it were that easy. When you live 6hrs away fom the nearest Defensive driving course it is very difficult to get driver training other that what you can provide as a parent. I'm sure the cost involved is also a deterent to many families on low income ( Yes I can hear you all now - "What price safety" but realistically if you don't have the money then there's not much you can do). Yes I could have spent more time with her on the dirt but I was never taught how to handle dirt roads so I certainly don't have the knowledge to teach her. Scott works away from home and has spent his days off travelling to visit his Dad who recently passed away from lung cancer - so he didn't have the time to spend with her. She did have lessons from qualified driving instrutors but they don't do any dirt road driving either.
As far as my daughter goes - you would be hard pressed to find a more responsible, level headed kid. She is far from cocky. Inexperience was the major contributor here.
I know the government are now revueing the 120hr requirement because of the cost to families. Maybe they need to overhaul the whole system.
Regardless, inexperienced drivers will still be involved in accidents no matter what courses they do. I'm not disagreeing with any of the comments here and I definitely wish we had have been able to spend her to a course but when everything is said and done this has been a valuable lesson. One I wish she could have learnt another way, but one learned all the same.
As parents we all try to do the best we can with what we have.
Glenyse
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As with all other correspondents here I am delighted that they were able to walk away from this one, but I am probably going to be the only party pooper here. I don't quite understand this comment ....
"There was no speeding involved, in fact she was well under her 90km speed limit and they weren't being silly."
What 90km speed limit? I accept that they were not being silly, but the correct maximum speed for the conditions isn't laid down anywhere by law, it is what it is, and to have bent the car this much, or even to have crashed at all, they were clearly going too fast for a driver 3 weeks onto P plates on a dirt road with potholes, lined with trees. Put bluntly, the fact that they crashed categorically proves in itself that they were going too fast for the conditions.
There has been some talk about Defensive driving classes here, I have had to do these regularly (regulations at work) and one thing they tell you is that there is no such thing as an accident, crashes are ALWAYS the result of a human getting in wrong. ( I tried to claim mechanical failure as an exception but they wouldn't accept even that, there view was that incorrect manufacture/maintenance/design etc etc would be the fault - you can't argue with those people sometimes)
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What 90km speed limit? I accept that they were not being silly, but the correct maximum speed for the conditions isn't laid down anywhere by law, it is what it is, and to have bent the car this much, or even to have crashed at all, they were clearly going too fast for a driver 3 weeks onto P plates on a dirt road with potholes, lined with trees. Put bluntly, the fact that they crashed categorically proves in itself that they were going too fast for the conditions.
Obviously she was going too fast for her level of experience! >:D The accident wouldn't have happened if she wasn't.
My point was that she wasn't breaking the law nor being a hoon so from a newly licenced 17 year old point of view, she thought she was ok. She did slow down for the conditions but obviously not enough. If you want specifics she was doing between 50 and 60km/p hour as deemed by the police on the case who have basically taken no action against her and have put the accident down to inexperience.
My point was that young inexperienced drivers need to be better educated re the dangers of dirt roads - something I have already taken responsibilty for. I simply posted this as a warning to other parents teaching young learners, not as a chance for all the high and mighty to critisise myself or my daughter.
Take the post for what it was meant to be.
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I will assume you meant no offence by that comment. Anyone who knows our family will argue that we are far from irresponsible parents.
Glenyse
Hi Glenyse
Of course I did not mean my comments to be offensive to you and your family and I have no doubt that you are both very responsible parents and in hindsight its easy to say this and that, but the most important thing is that they are all ok and can learn from the experience.
I was only stating my opinion on what I think the procedure should be to get your licence and what I will do for my children because like I said the more experience/training they can get before they hit the roads the better.
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Of course I did not mean my comments to be offensive to you and your family and I have no doubt that you are both very responsible parents and in hindsight its easy to say this and that, but the most important thing is that they are all ok and can learn from the experience.
I was only stating my opinion on what I think the procedure should be to get your licence and what I will do for my children because like I said the more experience/training they can get before they hit the roads the better.
Thanks for that. I totally agree with you.
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Glenyse, Just showed your cousin the pics of the car,,,, his jaw droped,,, he stoped drinking for 2 mins...lol
Steve
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Take the post for what it was meant to be.
Exactly, Glenyse was just trying to highlight and exemplify what can happen to inexperienced drivers.
There were no excuses Glenyse was plainly honest.
I am sure that Glenyse and her family have run this through their minds a 100 times wondering how they could have made it better.
About now she is probably regretting even posting it.
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About now she is probably regretting even posting it.
Almost . But if it has a positive effect on just one person it's worth it.
Glenyse, Just showed your cousin the pics of the car,,,, his jaw droped,,, he stoped drinking for 2 mins...lol
Steve
My God!! 2 whole minutes!!! He must have been really upset :'( :'( :'(
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only cos i wouldnt walk to the fridge for him.... :cheers:
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It's not just P Platers that need practice on gravel roads!
I (and my family) were almost wiped out by a ~40 year old in a Pajero. We were on a sweeping right hand bend, when the Paj came flying around the corner (almost power sliding). He was heading straight for us - my wife and I both thought we were in trouble. Luckily, he over-corrected and plowed into the trees on the side of the road (to his left). He missed us by about 1 metre and took out a few small trees.
When I asked what happened the driver sheepishly replied "I was going too fast"...
Cheers,
Scott.
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please dont take this as criticism of your daughter
but if there wasnt 4 people in the car, with an inexperienced driver would the outcome have been different?
chatting instead of focusing ?
i know as a teenager with my ps my parents would not allow me to take anyone in the car, dads my first car was a mazda ute the oldmans attitude was one seat for you one for your girlfriend and your mates can drive their own cars.
a bit harsh i thought at the time but prob saved my backside from a major accident
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Hi Juggs,
You definitely have a point and I think someone said something similar earlier in the post too. It only takes a fraction of a second to lose concentration - I think we can all admit to doing it at one time or another. It was the first time she had more than one passenger in the car and even though all the passengers said she was focused, 3 other 17 year olds would have to be a little bit of a distraction. They had a friend visiting from the coast. He had just arrived and they were excited to show him around. I thought they were just going up the street and had I realised they intended to go out off town I wouldn't have allowed it. Hindsite hey? I wish I could have seen then what seems so obvious now.
Another lesson learnt - she's driving again but refusing to drive with anyone else except Mum and Dad in the car.