Author Topic: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything  (Read 683370 times)

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Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2025 on: October 12, 2015, 02:25:46 PM »
we are a private mining company so the data is not commercial we are only interested in the point data (DTM) output
don't need to maximize the potential client base with each data set, and the data is continually changing

so our use/ need is limited, don't need to worry about hot joints, sheep etc

yes we can probably get better data/ post processing to get rid of the grass/ trees, BUT it is still not a direct measurement and as a surveyor we could be held to account if the information is not correct, hence easier to give known false data than fudge, get it wrong by 300mm or more and blast the ore rather than overburden/ for example

we get heaps better results in the open ground/ changing data, and the stuff with grass/ vegetation doesn't change so a single lidar run over this provides a base for the data set in the future

only problem is "cutting out the bad data" so be easier if the entire data set could be confirmed as good

So you don't rely on the survey data from the RPA mainly due to not knowing if its accurate, sounds fair enough to me.  So the data is more for stockpile mgt, etc?  I plan on doing the survey stuff in the future, so I'm curious if you know if others are having success doing it?  Also are mining outfits to your knowledge outsourcing it or trying to do it in house?  Just that I don't see a lot of mining companies on the RPA OC lists.

I'll be impressed if anyone could rid of the grass with LIDAR or visual image data!  Would have to use radar instead.  If I had a full version of pix4d mapper to remove the trees it would be done in minutes but it has a reasonably large price tag.  I've recently been looking at the point cloud classification stuff so I reckon I can automate it in the open source stuff somehow in the future.

LIDAR sounds like it would be a great match for what your doing.  Lightware has some really good LIDAR's at present, a bit pricey but not too bad.  They have one that is about to be released that is 200m+, so higher than CASA allows commercial RPA's - I think they were looking at $750 USD for it from memory.

My little 40m LIDAR unit was only $150 AUD so cheap in comparison, but I find it handy, much better than sonar which is really limited at about 2-3m for the cheap unit I've got.

Chris
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Offline 4wd26

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2026 on: October 12, 2015, 05:55:08 PM »
http://pubs.casi.ca/doi/abs/10.5589/m13-047
We are worlds apart in price and technology

From memory the smallest lidar unit we would be looking at would be around 7kg and that is our current problem, needing to lower the payload

Will find some more links data when I'm home
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Offline 4wd26

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2027 on: October 12, 2015, 09:03:10 PM »
http://www.routescene.com/products/product/uav-lidarpod/

looks like technology is really advancing fast this is starting to look viable.

in regards to the mining industry, well a 20km long pit is just too big to use drone technology
so the bigger mines that can pay $$$ to buy a drone have at their disposal better different equipment, RTK GPS, laser scanners, machine guidance with RTK or the final paying a professional aerial photography firm to fly the entire operation- this is usually done on a yearly basis- but depends and this costs around 20k 

I used to be a mine surveyor at this pit in central QLD
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/22%C2%B019'31.9%22S+148%C2%B014'24.3%22E/@-22.325535,148.2378963,1074m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

I now work for a much smaller mining company with many smaller pits in lots of places, this makes the drone surveys more attractive, but you then run into lots of other restrictions like controlled airspace, the DTM is good accurate to 50mm in a hard rock environment- just where the vegetation is, is where unknowns are and the accuracy is lacking like trees that are 15m high are displayed in the DTM


this gives a bit of info regarding lidar and capabilities
http://www.aamgroup.com/services-and-technology/aerial-survey
Quote
LiDAR can also pierce dense canopy, making it able to capture bare earth structure that satellites cannot see, as well as ground cover in enough detail to allow vegetation categorisation and change monitoring
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Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2028 on: October 12, 2015, 11:52:08 PM »
looks like technology is really advancing fast this is starting to look viable.


It sure is, just 12 months ago a LIDAR doing 50m or more was over $500.  The software to process LIDAR point clouds is coming down.  The advantage to the system you referenced is that is's a turnkey system so you don't need to muck around with it.

Having said that it's amazing how close you can get with a bit of know how and time.  The RTK GPS is a good example.  I've got 1 RTK L1 GPS for under $50 and a few hours of my time.  This will shortly be scripted and will take no longer than pushing a button a few hours after capturing the data.  Try buying a professional L1 RTK GPS, just hire for a day is many $100's.  Sure I only get 10cm accuracy (and if I work at it with an M8N GPS I can achieve 1cm from what I can see - so the same as the professional units).

The same will happen with LIDAR, take Lightware's short range scatter LIDAR.  It accurately maps out powerlines at a range of 40-50m - this is for collision avoidance but could be adapted to ground mapping quite easily as that is what it is doing.  I think they are now offering a 150m version. 

in regards to the mining industry, well a 20km long pit is just too big to use drone technology
so the bigger mines that can pay $$$ to buy a drone have at their disposal better different equipment, RTK GPS, laser scanners, machine guidance with RTK or the final paying a professional aerial photography firm to fly the entire operation- this is usually done on a yearly basis- but depends and this costs around 20k 


I can see the troubles of doing a 20km stretch, but looking at how I'd do it I'd break it down to 20 smaller sections.  Would take most likely 3 to 4 days to fully cover it (assuming only flying when the sun is high, etc).  I can see where a plane or helo would be cheaper and easier from a Management perspective and do it all in one flight.   As you go higher up there is the need to increase the camera's resolution or use a higher grade LIDAR or use a RADAR, all of which would add to the cost.  I'd be interested to see the economics of the two compared with modern technology.

I'm wondering how well the market is saturated at this point in time?  I have plans but not sure how viable they are, so I'll be doing a part time venture until I take the leap full time to it.

I used to be a mine surveyor at this pit in central QLD
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/22%C2%B019'31.9%22S+148%C2%B014'24.3%22E/@-22.325535,148.2378963,1074m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0


Please tell me you didnt need to do it the old fashioned way by hand, that would have been rough.  Would have been an interesting prospect to fly that from a survey perspective.

I now work for a much smaller mining company with many smaller pits in lots of places, this makes the drone surveys more attractive, but you then run into lots of other restrictions like controlled airspace, the DTM is good accurate to 50mm in a hard rock environment- just where the vegetation is, is where unknowns are and the accuracy is lacking like trees that are 15m high are displayed in the DTM


Controlled airspace is a lot smaller than people think, the 3nm limit around aerodromes only applies to those on two lists that airservices Australia manages (alot less than people think), but even if it is you can apply for an exemption for a specific flight (of course the advance notice can be annoying) so they can risk assess and publish a NOTAM for it if safe.

this gives a bit of info regarding lidar and capabilities
http://www.aamgroup.com/services-and-technology/aerial-survey


A good read, I'll have a deeper read a bit later.

Regards,

Chris
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 10:33:47 PM by CBRK »
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Offline edz

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2029 on: November 17, 2015, 08:38:55 AM »
A very interesting story on how a guy turned from strawberry farming to drone operater  http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2015/s4338353.htm
Keep sharing your hobby with us  guys ...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 08:40:40 AM by edz »
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2030 on: November 17, 2015, 08:45:36 AM »
A very interesting story on how a guy turned from strawberry farming to drone operater  http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2015/s4338353.htm
Keep sharing your hobby with us  guys ...
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Offline edz

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2031 on: November 17, 2015, 02:48:15 PM »
" IMPROVISE  ADAPT   OVERCOME   and  PERSEVERE  "

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Offline itchvet

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2033 on: November 26, 2015, 05:21:55 PM »
These engines usually have an ideal carby. Does it use a diaphragm pump? It could propel a plane with about a 2+ metre wing span, typically a 1/4 scale WWII fighter sized plane.

I've got in excess of 30 years experience fiddling with stuff like this, and I can say such an engine will give you nothing but trouble. These modifications have been tried squillions of times before in an effort to cut costs. The problem with wipersnipper motors is they have a wide rev band thus unsuitable for R/C application. In the U.S. there was a group that replaced the barrel/bore with a modified sleeve and totally different cutaways thereby altering the timing of the engines and varying the rev range.
However, by the time you import such a mod and the cost involved, you'd be better off buying a purpose built R/C engine.
For my money, putting a whipper snipper engine in a R/C plane always resulted in said plane having a very short life span.

If folks are interested in such engines, I have a R/C 80 cc for sale. PM me if interested. Also have fiberglass nearly completed plane to suit said engine, wingspan of 9 feet.
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2034 on: December 16, 2015, 09:24:46 AM »
Its been a while -- Just received my new mini OSD - This one "apparently" has a few extras showing on the screen -- I'll post a pic once I get time to fit it to a quad...
Here's a link for the details etc ...http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FPV-Flight-Controller-MINI-N1-OSD-Module-with-Case-for-DJI-NAZA-V1-V2-NAZA-Lite/32461540282.html
Cheers
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« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 09:30:14 AM by Mandrake »
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2035 on: December 16, 2015, 09:43:35 AM »
Its been a while -- Just received my new mini OSD - This one "apparently" has a few extras showing on the screen -- I'll post a pic once I get time to fit it to a quad...
Here's a link for the details etc ...http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FPV-Flight-Controller-MINI-N1-OSD-Module-with-Case-for-DJI-NAZA-V1-V2-NAZA-Lite/32461540282.html
Cheers
Mandrake



Hi Steve,

Almost as small as a MinimOSD.  Things keep getting smaller and smaller.

Grrr, my internet is still dodgy, had to escalate it to the TIO - things are looking better....  The video from last time should be posted in the next few weeks.

Thinking we should do the next funanza in March or early April?  We'll need to find a place that is in between the three cities if Tony and Mark can make it.

On a plus I've been getting about 30 mins of flying a week (mix of fixed wing and multicopter) as of late which is good (thank god for day light savings).  On Monday I shortened the arms on the large quad as it was just too twitchy, looks better now, my quick test flight seemed to respond better and it is easier to fit in the car!  Just need to work on some better landing gear.

Chris



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Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2036 on: December 16, 2015, 10:35:23 AM »
What's happened to Marschy ????? Anyone know ??
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Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2037 on: December 16, 2015, 10:38:30 AM »
What's happened to Marschy ????? Anyone know ??

I think after the Drones in Suburbia saga he might be laying low?  He had a bit of a target on his back.  I only saw the thread after it had been locked, lots of different views......

Hmmm, I just checked some of his older posts, his tag line on his account is guest, that is not good.....

Hey Marschy you around?

Chris
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Offline GGV8Cruza

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2038 on: December 16, 2015, 10:50:54 AM »
What's happened to Marschy ????? Anyone know ??

Unfortunately he has left the Forum Steve.

GG

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2039 on: December 16, 2015, 12:17:57 PM »
Just saw this if anyone is interested in having a play:
http://www.instructables.com/id/17-Awesome-Gifts-That-Fly/

Have fun!

 :cheers:

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Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2040 on: December 16, 2015, 12:23:55 PM »
Unfortunately he has left the Forum Steve.

GG

Hi GG,

Do we know if it was it his choice?  Or was he suspended?

I hope he comes back if it was his choice.  We just need to all get along, even if we have differing views.

Chris
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2041 on: December 16, 2015, 12:43:24 PM »
Hi GG,

Do we know if it was it his choice?  Or was he suspended?

I hope he comes back if it was his choice.  We just need to all get along, even if we have differing views.

Chris

It was his choice, nothing to do with a directive from the mods or admin.

GG

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2042 on: December 16, 2015, 12:46:48 PM »
It was his choice, nothing to do with a directive from the mods or admin.

GG

Cool, no probs.  I hope he comes back at some stage.  The world is full of shades of grey.

Chris
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2043 on: December 17, 2015, 08:25:37 AM »
Chris

I think a lot of it was to do with the thread  from Robbo (?) concerning a drone buzzing round his house.

Lot's of comments were made about invasion of privacy, shooting the thing down, tracking it then bashing the owner & so on. Marschy spoke up in defence of drone operator's but things went down-hill fast until he said "I'm gone" & apparently left the forum.

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2044 on: December 17, 2015, 08:54:06 AM »
Chris

I think a lot of it was to do with the thread  from Robbo (?) concerning a drone buzzing round his house.

Lot's of comments were made about invasion of privacy, shooting the thing down, tracking it then bashing the owner & so on. Marschy spoke up in defence of drone operator's but things went down-hill fast until he said "I'm gone" & apparently left the forum.

Graeme

Hi Graeme,

Yep I saw that thread just after it was locked.  Things got a bit heated there it seems.  Both sides had points but as per our typical human natures neither would see the others side and it just escalated.  Worse it was getting personal on both sides.

I don't think that anyone was threatening Marschy they were just venting how they felt.  If they actually did what they said they would do then they'd be getting into some trouble.

Neither camp seemed to fully understand the regulations that are in place.  My take on it below, I'm not trying to reignite the discussion either.

I enjoy my privacy too, but people these days have a really high perceived right to privacy, which is greater than what they actually do.  If the operator was operating in a deserted street and not within 30m of persons then there is little they can do (a deserted street is not a populous area - I've had many discussions with CASA regarding this topic).  If they have concerns then document it, feel free to locate the operator, take details and report them  All he had to do was walk outside and he was instantly within 30m and the operator is obliged to relocate (within reason - if you start chasing it then CASA will look at it differently).  CASA does follow up on this stuff if their is a genuine concern.  They need evidence though to make it happen, so video footage is helpful, otherwise it's a he said, she said situation.

Should the operator have been there, well I kind of feel not if they were flying at rooftop height and loitering at the neighbours, not alot has to go wrong in an urban env for it to damage stuff.  As hard is this for some, have they done anything technically wrong, nope it didnt sound like it - unless he went outside in the course of his normal activities then the operator needed to relocate which they did from his description.  I have flown in my street before, after hitting a tree and having a dodgy motor or tail servo go on me I just dont do it anymore.  I go to the local park or further away now.

Chris



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Offline Bird

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2045 on: December 17, 2015, 09:00:47 AM »
Quote from: CBRK
Both sides had points but as per our typical human natures neither would see the others side and it just escalated.  Worse it was getting personal on both sides.
Quite simply he refused to admit there was a chance someone could use a drone for perving and spying on people to see what they had in their yards, or if they were home...
Nobody said he was guilty of that, or even suggested it - infact it was well stated that this wasn't against him... But he somehow took it personally. Life goes on.
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2046 on: December 17, 2015, 10:13:52 AM »
Quite simply he refused to admit there was a chance someone could use a drone for perving and spying on people to see what they had in their yards, or if they were home...
Nobody said he was guilty of that, or even suggested it - infact it was well stated that this wasn't against him... But he somehow took it personally. Life goes on.

Sure it could be used for spying, so could just about anything when you think about it (that car with dark tinting looks sus as it drives past, is it casing my place?  Those kids look suspect too now that you mention it....).  I think what he was getting at was peoples instant 'suspicions' that it was up to no good.  Sure it could have been but what are the odds.  Did they technically do anything wrong?  If they did then their is recourse, if not and they just dont like it, go talk to you federal rep to get it changed if it is a real problem.  Simple in my eyes.

To me the issue is more a people issue, people need to just learn to get along in life.  It was both sides that overstepped in my eyes from reading the thread.  Sad that he felt he had to leave the forum, he could have just stayed away from them and blocked / ignore them if they PM'd him.  Or just take a break for a few weeks.

Chris

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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2047 on: December 17, 2015, 11:44:54 AM »
Someone in our 4WD club brought a Horizon Chroma with him on a trip. Unfortunately I wasn't there but he posted the footage on fb page.
Nice gear, especially the new ones with follow-me and tracking mode.
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Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #2048 on: December 17, 2015, 11:47:05 AM »
Someone in our 4WD club brought a Horizon Chroma with him on a trip. Unfortunately I wasn't there but he posted the footage on fb page.
Nice gear, especially the new ones with follow-me and tracking mode.

I must admit that when I go 4WDing, it is a hard choice, play in the mud, dirt or rocks, or do I fly and film the others having fun... Choices, choices.....

They make it so easy now, just a reminder though that they arent up to full collision avoidance so while pretty good they arent too smart yet.

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