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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: prado2004 on February 08, 2019, 03:53:20 PM

Title: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: prado2004 on February 08, 2019, 03:53:20 PM
Please everyone sign the below two links and petitions.

Rant here, being a broker myself I am so annoyed that the original purpose of this royal commission was to punish banks for wrong doings. Now it has turned on brokers. Brokers create market choice and competition, and most importantly customers pay ZERO to use a broker. No fee or cost is added to their loans, generally we get a better rate than you do by going direct and the banks pay the fee. WIN WIN.

The Royal Commission was meant to deal with criminals in the banking industry, but surprise surprise nothing but a slap on the wrist.
In fact, the recommendations for the mortgage broking industry is going to line their pockets even more. CBA has been lobbying to get rid of brokers for a while now, so the Big 4 can reduce competition and line their pockets. Why do you think their share prices have skyrocketed???

By removing upfront commissions and forcing the customer to pay upfront the broker industry will simply cease to exist. We know people won’t pay these fees.Being a broker myself we never accept the rates offered by the banks and always negotiates better than the consumer can get at the branch. This is why we have repeat business and continual referrals. Media hype around brokers writing hundreds of millions of dollars in loans just aren’t a reflection of the industry, we run a small business in our local community.
Also, smaller banks who have great deals will become redundant as you will need to go into the branch to meet with a banker at no doubt a Big 4 bank. The very institutions accused of rorting everyday people.

Finally, the trail brokers receive is to align their interests and prevent ‘churn’. Ie. brokers will be incentivised to refinance clients every few years to boost their revenue for upfront commissions. Also business owners do assist clients even when they don’t get paid. What about clients who want pre-approvals that don’t go ahead? What about clients who go to auction but don’t win? I never hear my husband turn people away even if he thinks it’s not going to happen.

I have 100% certainty if these recommendations come to fruition it is going to create a bigger monopoly now for the big banks and it will make it harder for you and your kids to obtain loans. We have so many self employed clients who simply do not deal direct with banks as banks don't understand how to look at deals like a good broker does.

I hope the government doesn’t play into the hands of the big banks and adopt these measures. Surely there is another way?? By keeping the broker channel alive, the big banks stay competitive...

https://www.brokerbehindyou.com.au (https://www.brokerbehindyou.com.au)

https://www.change.org/p/federal-treasurer-josh-frydenberg-save-the-mortgage-broking-industry?recruiter=62493265&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial.pacific_post_sap_share_gmail_abi.gmail_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.pacific_post_sap_share_gmail_abi.gmail_abi&recruited_by_id=406588b1-86ad-4846-9106-eb3317df8107&utm_content=fht-14263086-en-gb%3Av5&fbclid=IwAR352JdhQZXLEmQSxqggYWHVl_as3-E4whnI7Nk-4c1QZ6xzJ94tb3MWERY (https://www.change.org/p/federal-treasurer-josh-frydenberg-save-the-mortgage-broking-industry?recruiter=62493265&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial.pacific_post_sap_share_gmail_abi.gmail_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.pacific_post_sap_share_gmail_abi.gmail_abi&recruited_by_id=406588b1-86ad-4846-9106-eb3317df8107&utm_content=fht-14263086-en-gb%3Av5&fbclid=IwAR352JdhQZXLEmQSxqggYWHVl_as3-E4whnI7Nk-4c1QZ6xzJ94tb3MWERY)
Title: Re: Royal commission - What will happen to brokers
Post by: prado2004 on February 08, 2019, 03:58:31 PM
Great to see the treasurer getting behind brokers. Clearly an uneducated decision has been made in this royal commission enquiry and now people are realising it is the wrong recommendation. Consumers do not want to have to go to the big banks, they want choice in the market. Getting rid of trail income will result in brokers having to close up shop. Trail is paid for on-going support, questions and work brokers give customers. Brokers businesses are also valued on trail, ban trail and you are making many older brokers who have spent their life working hard building their business worthless over night.

(https://scontent.fbne6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51451646_1256384064513059_7877324359960887296_n.png?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fbne6-1.fna&oh=1ad9da73fc8a5a787f553a44b34bb844&oe=5CED5431)
Title: Re: Royal commission - What will happen to brokers
Post by: wilson79 on February 08, 2019, 04:05:08 PM
signed....
Title: Re: Royal commission - What will happen to brokers
Post by: prado2004 on February 08, 2019, 04:48:11 PM
signed....

Thanks mate!
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: krisandkev on February 08, 2019, 05:16:36 PM
I feel for you. But while Labor is making this an election issue it will be hard for the government to ignore this recommendation. Politics being politics. I think some brokers have not helped the matter. Same old thing, a few bad ones spoil it for all.  Kevin

Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Bird on February 08, 2019, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: krisandkev
. Same old thing, a few bad ones spoil it for all.  Kevinin
in that case most banks will be closing too
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: rockrat on February 08, 2019, 07:10:50 PM
While I feel sorry for brokers, I highly doubt the commissioner’s recommendation would be made without good reason.  I believe some of these include - from the interim report -

These outcomes, the commission states, are:
“Broker loans were reliably associated with higher leverage, even for customers with an identical estimate of risk.”
“Loans written through brokers have a higher incidence of interest-only repayments, have higher debt-to-income levels, higher loan-to-value ratios (LVRs) and higher incurred interest costs compared with loans negotiated directly with the bank.”
“Over time, higher leverage means broker customers have an increased likelihood of falling into arrears, pay down their loans more slowly and on average pay more interest than customers who dealt directly with the bank.”

If the above is in fact true, brokers are not, on average, adding value to their customers.

Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: JusyApples on February 08, 2019, 11:11:37 PM
While I feel sorry for brokers, I highly doubt the commissioner’s recommendation would be made without good reason.  I believe some of these include - from the interim report -

These outcomes, the commission states, are:
“Broker loans were reliably associated with higher leverage, even for customers with an identical estimate of risk.”
“Loans written through brokers have a higher incidence of interest-only repayments, have higher debt-to-income levels, higher loan-to-value ratios (LVRs) and higher incurred interest costs compared with loans negotiated directly with the bank.”
“Over time, higher leverage means broker customers have an increased likelihood of falling into arrears, pay down their loans more slowly and on average pay more interest than customers who dealt directly with the bank.”

If the above is in fact true, brokers are not, on average, adding value to their customers.
I honestly believe the commissioner has no idea what brokers actually do.

60% of all home loans are written by brokers.

Estimated they add $3bil to the economy.

If they get rid of mortgage brokers people will be required to go directly to a bank, which means more employees required by the bank...that means the lender pays more wages...who ends up paying for that? You

If a person defaults on a loan, pays it out early or changes lender particularly in the first 2 years of the loan, they broker has their commission clawed back by the bank. That means 0 income on that loan.

Don’t forget a broker submits a loan application to the lender, THEY either approve it or knock it back, not the broker.

My wife has worked in the industry for 10 years and she is preparing to be unemployed.



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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: tryagain on February 09, 2019, 07:05:40 AM
A good article on it here https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/banking/what-the-changes-to-mortgage-brokers-mean-for-you-and-your-home-loan/news-story/02a9d894b19512bd83c7f275a28997cc (https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/banking/what-the-changes-to-mortgage-brokers-mean-for-you-and-your-home-loan/news-story/02a9d894b19512bd83c7f275a28997cc)
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: McGirr on February 09, 2019, 08:26:45 AM
The talk is that all these recommendations will take 2 -3 years if they are acted on. Personally I cannot see 3/4 of the recommendations being implemented. With an election coming up this will all be forgotten.

I have a few friends as brokers, I charge them a monthly fee to be their friends.  ;D

Mark
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: glenm64 on February 09, 2019, 11:15:30 AM
Banks shares rocketed after RC report. This is another reason. Less competition. Bend over lenders and get ready for the pineapple.

Cheers Glen

Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: GeoffA on February 09, 2019, 12:30:14 PM
The talk is that all these recommendations will take 2 -3 years if they are acted on. Personally I cannot see 3/4 of the recommendations being implemented. With an election coming up this will all be forgotten......

Agree with that, Mark.
Like all RC's, there will be much excitement about the recommendations but few will be fully implemented.
Those that are, will be watered down with the passage of time as their impact will be too expensive, too restrictive, or just plain inconvenient.
In the end, the market will dictate.
My 2c....

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Tim - Stratford on February 09, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
Signed

 :cup:

Sarah
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: prado2004 on February 21, 2019, 10:10:43 AM
I get the fact that people read these points and think that maybe they are right. The sad thing is the only people involved in this report were the big banks, in particular CBA. They drove the whole thing. The RC started to look at the things the big banks had done and to fine any irresponsible lending. Now brokers commissions have hit the spotlight. To put it in perspective brokers previously many years ago got larger upfront commissions. Then the banks themselves said people were refinancing too much and there was no incentive long term to look after customers so they changed it to a lower upfront and then a trail commission so the customer was looked after long term. This model works well and quite often people will call me to refinance and it is not in their best interest so we keep them with their existing lender. Also existing clients consume at least half of my day with questions, scenarios etc so the trail income actually helps pay for these tasks. The RC made it out like brokers kick back and make a lot off the trailing commissions however after the report came out the big broker firms and aggregators have released a lot of data and the average earnings per annum in the whole of Australia is $100k. This is not a huge salary and trust me for the hours most do and running their own businesses it is not a get rich quick job. Like most industry's the bigger guys writing lots of loans in Sydney and Melbourne sure are making a lot of money but it shows if the average is $100k per annum then there is a lot of people also making a lot less income. If trail goes it will just mean a lot of people will constantly refinance and it will go back to the old model which does not work. I also know many businesses who literally pay a full time staff member just to look after existing clients and the trail allows them to do this. For those of you who are with a bank, do they ever call you and offer a better rate or if the fixed rate is coming up do they call and tell you their specials? No, they give you the crappiest and highest variable rate they can. Brokers actively call people and make sure they are getting a good deal. At least that is what we do, and I know a lot of others who do also.

Also there has been speculation that some banks pay more than others so brokers are skewed to write deals to those who pay more commission. This is simply not true, the difference in commissions is absolutely bugger all, and if this is an issue I am all for the government making them all the same and so are other brokers that is no problem. There has also been a lot of data released showing out of the major banks ANZ pay the lowest, ironically they have the most broker loans out of any other bank. So go figure, that theory is dead now too. Truth be told probably 1 in 50 clients can go to any banks, most only fit a few due to them being self employed, earning overtime, age of the applicant, bad credit history, bad payment history, their house not valuing enough. These go on and on. So the fact is if you use a broker you will more than likely be found a solution, if you go to a bank direct you will more than likely be turned away. Also brokers 100% get given better rates than the public get given. This is purely due to overall power of the broker and the banks try and win the business. This will make competition so much less fierce and the consumer is just going to lose out.

In terms of higher leverage and higher default rates this is not true at all. Recent surveys have come out in the last week showing that 67% of customers have at one point been unhappy with their bank, 1% of customers are unhappy with their broker. Brokers work for you, not the banks. There are a lot of bigger firms out there like Aussie 100% owned by CBA, mortgage choice bulk owned by CBA, Rams owned 100% by Westpac. These guys are skewed in the products they give you, whether they admit it or not. But the independent brokerage firms who are family owned like mine genuinely care about the customer, the bulk of my book is under 80% and not one customer in over 1000 customers has defaulted in the last 5 years. Unless there is extenuating circumstances of things like cancer, job loss maybe people miss some payments or have to ask the bank for a repayment holiday. Interest only loans are governed by the government, on my book I have less than 5% of my entire client base on interest only, the banks direct were up A LOT higher that is why the government intervened.

Hopefully this gives some insight into a bit more than just what the RC report shows.




While I feel sorry for brokers, I highly doubt the commissioner’s recommendation would be made without good reason.  I believe some of these include - from the interim report -

These outcomes, the commission states, are:
“Broker loans were reliably associated with higher leverage, even for customers with an identical estimate of risk.”
“Loans written through brokers have a higher incidence of interest-only repayments, have higher debt-to-income levels, higher loan-to-value ratios (LVRs) and higher incurred interest costs compared with loans negotiated directly with the bank.”
“Over time, higher leverage means broker customers have an increased likelihood of falling into arrears, pay down their loans more slowly and on average pay more interest than customers who dealt directly with the bank.”

If the above is in fact true, brokers are not, on average, adding value to their customers.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: prado2004 on February 21, 2019, 10:13:02 AM
Labour are fast back peddling, they want to get rid of negative gearing, stop franking credits, get rid of brokers and charge customers a $5000+ fee regardless of going to a bank or a broker for a loan.

It is almost like they are trying to lose the election. They can see it all slipping away after they thought they were a sure thing and it is now making them change what they have originally recommended. Hopefully now more and more of them are realising that there was not enough evidence for these drastic changes.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: chester ver2.0 on February 21, 2019, 10:41:56 AM

Sorry guys i cant agree with the above statement

"If a person defaults on a loan, pays it out early or changes lender particularly in the first 2 years of the loan, they broker has their commission clawed back by the bank. That means 0 income on that loan".

Sorry but i think in those cases the broker should not get any income off that loan because apart from paying out out early in the other scenarios the broker has done a crap job of assessing the borrowing capability or market conditions in the first place
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: JusyApples on February 21, 2019, 11:00:05 AM
Sorry guys i cant agree with the above statement

"If a person defaults on a loan, pays it out early or changes lender particularly in the first 2 years of the loan, they broker has their commission clawed back by the bank. That means 0 income on that loan".

Sorry but i think in those cases the broker should not get any income off that loan because apart from paying out out early in the other scenarios the broker has done a crap job of assessing the borrowing capability or market conditions in the first place
You understand that all loans are independently assessed by a bank right?
The broker does the hard work in terms of searching for the correct loan, preparing the documents, getting all the required docs (pay slips, banks statements etc etc some of these can be very complex especially with self employed). Once all the work is done (hours and hours of work) it is submitted to the chosen lender for assessment. So it’s not the broker doing the ‘crap assessment’ it’s the lender.


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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: JusyApples on February 21, 2019, 11:01:45 AM
Labour are fast back peddling, they want to get rid of negative gearing, stop franking credits, get rid of brokers and charge customers a $5000+ fee regardless of going to a bank or a broker for a loan.

It is almost like they are trying to lose the election. They can see it all slipping away after they thought they were a sure thing and it is now making them change what they have originally recommended. Hopefully now more and more of them are realising that there was not enough evidence for these drastic changes.
They can’t be trusted, they are back peddling to try and keep votes, but once they are in power then what?

Both shorten and Bowen said if you don’t like changes to franking credits then don’t vote for us.

It doesn’t pay to be a self funded retiree under their government.


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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Aussie Camper on February 21, 2019, 12:59:53 PM
Signed,

After working in the Banking industry (including Mortgage Broking) for the best part of 40 years these guys don't seam to understand the benefits that Mortgage Brokers can provide.

If people are worried about 'perceived' favoritism by Mortgages Brokers towards a lender that pays higher commission/trail why don't they just mandate a standard Commission/Trail rate, at a reasonable rate of course. Most lenders commission rates are very similar anyway.

The brokers I have worked for really only consider what is the best product/lender for the client, based on the clients requirements and objectives and the amount of possible commission is not considered.   
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: chester ver2.0 on February 21, 2019, 01:42:17 PM
You understand that all loans are independently assessed by a bank right?
The broker does the hard work in terms of searching for the correct loan, preparing the documents, getting all the required docs (pay slips, banks statements etc etc some of these can be very complex especially with self employed). Once all the work is done (hours and hours of work) it is submitted to the chosen lender for assessment. So it’s not the broker doing the ‘crap assessment’ it’s the lender.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ahh Ok got it so you guys are basically the same as car dealers when it is going good it is all you and the service you provide.... When it goes to grap hey sorry pal its not us blame Toyota (or insert other manufacturer of your choice)



Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: WilSurf on February 21, 2019, 04:25:27 PM
To Royal Commission have made it harder for the normal individual to get a refinance of their mortgage.
We are in the process of refinancing and the bank is asking stupid questions.
And they are adding some monthly payments double  to calculate our monthly expenses.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: rockrat on February 21, 2019, 07:24:32 PM
To Royal Commission have made it harder for the normal individual to get a refinance of their mortgage.
We are in the process of refinancing and the bank is asking stupid questions.
And they are adding some monthly payments double  to calculate our monthly expenses.
I had to provide a statement of financial position recently so it gave me a good chance to really understand where our hard earned goes. I listed all the insurance policies, rates, utilities, kids school including extra curricular activities, car costs, food, entertainment etc. Then I took a look at the Housing Expenditure Metric to see where we stood against the norm. My monthly tally was way more than the HEM so I can see why people come unstuck if they just use the HEM.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Kangaron on February 21, 2019, 07:40:56 PM
I've had a quick look around to find a Housing Expenditure Metric calculator online but cannot see one,
any links?
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: rockrat on February 21, 2019, 07:45:50 PM
Truth be told probably 1 in 50 clients can go to any banks, most only fit a few due to them being self employed, earning overtime, age of the applicant, bad credit history, bad payment history, their house not valuing enough. These go on and on. So the fact is if you use a broker you will more than likely be found a solution
What I’d love to know is what banks are accepting the 98% of clients that can’t go to any bank? Surely this is a recipe for higher defaults, a risk that is often reflcted in higher interest rates. One solution might be to establish an industry wide standard for assessing a person’s application that ALL lenders must use.

Also, what % of people that go to a broker end up getting knocked back. And do you knock them back, or do you simply rely on the lenders?
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: rockrat on February 21, 2019, 07:48:14 PM
I've had a quick look around to find a Housing Expenditure Metric calculator online but cannot see one,
any links?

Try this:
https://www.homeloanexperts.com.au/mortgage-calculators/living-expenses-calculator/# (https://www.homeloanexperts.com.au/mortgage-calculators/living-expenses-calculator/#)
Or this
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/ViewContent?readform&view=productsbytopic&Action=Expand&Num=5.10.2 (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/ViewContent?readform&view=productsbytopic&Action=Expand&Num=5.10.2)
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: JusyApples on February 21, 2019, 08:46:13 PM
Ahh Ok got it so you guys are basically the same as car dealers when it is going good it is all you and the service you provide.... When it goes to grap hey sorry pal its not us blame Toyota (or insert other manufacturer of your choice)
I don’t think you have a clue.


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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: hawks667 on February 22, 2019, 06:38:03 AM
I've had a quick look around to find a Housing Expenditure Metric calculator online but cannot see one,
any links?

Subscribers to HEM are not allowed to share the "drop in tables" but as rockrat has provided, some reasonable comparison sites are around.



Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: chester ver2.0 on February 22, 2019, 07:27:23 AM
I don’t think you have a clue.


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And i think you had a great run with an all care but no responsibility operating model, a commission structure that could not possibly provide any sort of end consumer transparency and now your having a whine that the party is over.

Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: JusyApples on February 22, 2019, 09:30:58 AM
And i think you had a great run with an all care but no responsibility operating model, a commission structure that could not possibly provide any sort of end consumer transparency and now your having a whine that the party is over.
Every inaccuracy I have pointed out you have not been able to respond.

Let’s be clear here, my income is not derived from mortgage broking. Not even close. So saying I’m having a whine because the party is over is another inaccurate statement.


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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: tryagain on February 22, 2019, 10:46:25 AM
I think it's a case of an industry that could do with a bit of regulation but no use throwing the baby out with the bathwater, maybe standardise the commissions in a way that so there is no financial incentive for Brokers to sign you up with who suits them best as opposed to the client and a few other measures. It would seem that getting rid of brokers would push more people the way of the big banks, who were the focus of the Royal Commission in the first place.

I remember when Labor introduced the Australian Charities and Not for Profits Commission (as much as a swipe at religious institutions as for policy purposes), it required a lot more paperwork on behalf of those it covered, but it also weeded out the dodgy ones like the Shane Warne Foundation. When the Coalition got back in they thought about disbanding the ACNC but, due to it getting rid of the dodgy operators it had bought some more credibility to the not for profit industry and therefore the industry was generally happy for it to stay in spite of the additional reporting requirements.

I am normally a fan of small Gov, but if the banking/mortgage broking industry hasn't succeeded in addressing the dodgy practices by some, it's probably a good time for some gov regulation. It will probably result in more work for those involved and it harder to get a loan but a better reputation for the industry.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: trevc on February 22, 2019, 02:16:22 PM
I worked in the finance industry for 15 years - brokers are massively conflicted by commisions - not saying they're not good people or care about client outcomes.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Apples69 on February 23, 2019, 06:50:12 AM
Rock rat - I'm in the industry. I do all facets of lending including Agribusiness. I complete about three in ten loans referred to me. With the other seven I spend my time giving free advice on how to better their position and what they need to do to better their position.
I do considerable amount of work with Agri clients who have hit bad times - some I can help some I help work through selling up.

I read in an earlier post about clawback and the broker doing a crap assessment. That's pretty disappointing statement as some people use and abuse the experience of the broker to get what they want then sell and clear debts within 12 months. One example is I completed a rural deal that settled in December. People were in strife and by restructuring and doing a few different things got them back on the straight and narrow. 3 months to do deal. I've been informed they are now selling the property ( no way in the world would they sell it last year when I was doing the work). When they sell the bank will clawback my payment.

The he outcome of the Royal Commission is disappointing as there had been three independent reviews into Broker remuneration leading up to the RC. One by ASIC, one by Productivity Commission and one by Treasury . All said it was a good way to be paid and brought in competition.
Not one broker or broker body was interviewed by Mr Haynes during the RC. However he did hang a lot on CBA comments ( worst offender of all the Banks) on what we were paid. When you hear the words assume in a RC and accepted as gospel is very disappointing.

Banks will increase rates under the disguise of cost of funds and they quickly did it in 2009 when they shut out brokers after the GFC. Also the banks in 2017 rammed up rates on all investment property loans when APRA wanted to slow down lending in Sydney and Melbiurne. Why not just lift them on new loans.

Anyway time will tell as Commen sense is certainly not prevailing.
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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: briann532 on February 23, 2019, 08:29:55 AM
I'm far from an expert on the subject, but being self employed I have a lot of trouble getting finance.
I pay all my bills as soon as I get them and I only borrow money for property or on the business for vehicles.

Even though I have been good with money and never had any trouble, I am still considered a high risk and banks won't touch me.
Enter - BROKER!!!

Without brokers, I would be renting and way behind where I am.
The broker I deal with has a good understanding of what goes on and that is his job, not mine.

For that reason alone, they have my support.

Yes, there are cowboys and unscrupulous dealers out there, but that happens in everything and every industry.
Adani, CBA, AGL. yep, no, they're fine, they always act above board and do the right thing....... ;D
Looks at all the corruption in state rail.
So yes, some brokers are sharks, but in my personal experience the ones I have dealt with have been great.
Car dealers. The same. Some good some bad.
Politicians, the same. Shyte sorry, I stand corrected..... All bad!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: WilSurf on March 13, 2019, 12:18:05 PM
Thanks to the Royal Commission I have to go through many hoops to re-finance our property.
We are renovating our kitchen and want to increase our mortgage to pay for it.
The house is worth almost double of the mortgage required, but man, how difficult is it.
We always pay fortnightly what I need to pay monthly, always pay off my credit card each month in full.
Never a debt or late payment.

After sending in lots of requested paperwork, they now want a written confirmation from the ATO noting that no further funds are outstanding.

Arrrggghhhhh.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Bigfish on March 13, 2019, 12:43:25 PM
Thanks to the Royal Commission I have to go through many hoops to re-finance our property.
We are renovating our kitchen and want to increase our mortgage to pay for it.
The house is worth almost double of the mortgage required, but man, how difficult is it.
We always pay fortnightly what I need to pay monthly, always pay off my credit card each month in full.
Never a debt or late payment.

After sending in lots of requested paperwork, they now want a written confirmation from the ATO noting that no further funds are outstanding.

Arrrggghhhhh.



If only everybody had to go through the same process and scrutiny before they were given approval for an "x" amount loan there would be a hell of a lot less bankruptcies and , house losses and suicides. One of lifes biggest decisions is buying a house and a time when you need to have all the financial aspects in order. The way brokers, banks, mortgage loan sharks and other greedy bastards screwed with peoples lives hopefully sees the pricks die a painful death..karma.  Better to be very, very sure that your future is rosy than being given a load of bullShit that sees your dream become a nightmare further down the track. 
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: krisandkev on March 13, 2019, 04:25:20 PM
Yea. Bank wants to give you a million and you blindly say yes. Too stupid to take your own responsibility, no must be banks fault naturally. And now people are blaming the banks for credit shortage and drop in house prices in Sydney and Melbourne????  Kevin
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Bird on March 13, 2019, 04:43:04 PM
wait until rates go up 2% then watch the suicide rate skyrocket. Theres people so close to not making payments now... let alone if it ever went back up to 17% of the 70/80's or when ever it was
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: GeoffA on March 13, 2019, 08:04:21 PM
wait until rates go up 2% then watch the suicide rate skyrocket. Theres people so close to not making payments now... let alone if it ever went back up to 17% of the 70/80's or when ever it was

Late '80's....
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: JusyApples on March 13, 2019, 11:19:51 PM
wait until rates go up 2% then watch the suicide rate skyrocket. Theres people so close to not making payments now... let alone if it ever went back up to 17% of the 70/80's or when ever it was
Also a lot of people don’t want to make sacrifices to make life easier. They want the holidays, the cars, the Foxtel, the big TV etc etc they rather lose their house then their iPhones


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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Rumpig on March 14, 2019, 06:38:46 AM
Thanks to the Royal Commission I have to go through many hoops to re-finance our property.
We are renovating our kitchen and want to increase our mortgage to pay for it.
The house is worth almost double of the mortgage required, but man, how difficult is it.
We always pay fortnightly what I need to pay monthly, always pay off my credit card each month in full.
Never a debt or late payment.

After sending in lots of requested paperwork, they now want a written confirmation from the ATO noting that no further funds are outstanding.

Arrrggghhhhh.
yet I can redraw $60K on our home loan in the space of a month, all done online and not really dealt with a single bank employee / anyone at all (think from memory we got an email questioning it)...scary how easy it was to do that.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Pete79 on March 14, 2019, 07:26:13 AM
And it only took a 5 minute phone call with our bank to get our house re-evaluated.
I rang and said I’m changing banks, the new bank has valued our house $80,000 higher then you have and we’re leaving. Lady on the phone says hold the line, 5 seconds later she comes back and says we can match that and redid our loan on the spot.

We where not changing banks and did not have another evaluation. I just picked up the phone and tried my luck with a total BS story.

Nothing wrong with that industry.....
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: WilSurf on March 14, 2019, 12:54:23 PM
Yea. Bank wants to give you a million and you blindly say yes. Too stupid to take your own responsibility, no must be banks fault naturally. And now people are blaming the banks for credit shortage and drop in house prices in Sydney and Melbourne????  Kevin

Sorry, I don't follow your thinking.
They are not giving me a million and i haven't said yes.
I am taking responsibility of my own, repaying everything over and more than what I have to.
I know there are people who had a too high mortgage because they wanted to live the dream without having the means.
We have the means and are not overspending.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Bird on March 14, 2019, 01:11:19 PM
Also a lot of people don’t want to make sacrifices to make life easier. They want the holidays, the cars, the Foxtel, the big TV etc etc they rather lose their house then their iPhones
AGREE
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: krisandkev on March 14, 2019, 02:25:36 PM
Sorry, I don't follow your thinking.
They are not giving me a million and i haven't said yes.
I am taking responsibility of my own, repaying everything over and more than what I have to.
I know there are people who had a too high mortgage because they wanted to live the dream without having the means.
We have the means and are not overspending.

My comments were not directed at you so please do not take any offence by them. It was directed at those who told the inquiry that a bank loaned them a amount that they had no way of managing the repayments. I think we all have stories of bank offers but we look at what we can afford now and if there are interest rises. Then we make our choice.  Kevin
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: macca on March 14, 2019, 02:55:00 PM
Late '80's....
Yeah, hard to forget if you went thru it, aye Geoff

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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Kangaron on March 14, 2019, 04:48:51 PM
I recall mates telling me I was stupid to lock in for 3 years at 13.5.
One of my better decisions.

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Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: rags on March 14, 2019, 07:58:35 PM
Yeah, hard to forget if you went thru it, aye Geoff

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I had a loan on my first property ( a unit in Sydney North) at an interest rate of 18% and another loan for the land we had purchase in the blue mountains in 1989 at19% as that loan was considered an investment loan.

 I had to sell the unit to get some cash to build a home on our land as bank wouldn't lend for a "pile of bricks and timber" to build a house. Being forced to build with cash was a great outcome, it cost me about $38k to build the house as an owner builder.

At the same time my brother had a loan locked in at the 13% rate as that was taken out at some point, I'm guessing before 1986, as 1986 was when I bought the unit.
It was some banking law change that I think the Keating Govt made that restricted interest rates to 13% if taken out before a certain date and loans after that were considered variable.

Work out well for us as it set us on the way in life but was tough to at the time, but our needs were simpler then ( I did still have my 4WD).
The house I built for $38k cost mean another $150k to extend about 15 years later.
It was a sad day when we sold but the reward eased the pain somewhat.

Although the interest rates made life tuff, I do think it was still easier back then in comparison to what our kids are faced with.
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: Paddler Ed on March 14, 2019, 09:49:55 PM
As an economist, I have to disagree with what you are all saying re the interest rates in the 1980s. Whilst they were high in the 1980s, that was only the nominal rate - the real rate was much lower:

(https://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200708/r166117_618536.jpg)

It's an older chart from this ABC article https://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-08-08/the-reality-of-interest-rates/2525330, (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-08-08/the-reality-of-interest-rates/2525330,) but it shows that once inflation was taken into account, the rate wasn't as bad as it was made out.

Compare that to now, when any pay rise is generally around 1-2%, you are actually going backwards once inflation is taken into account (if it remains within the RBAs 2-3% target (https://www.rba.gov.au/education/resources/explainers/australias-inflation-target.html (https://www.rba.gov.au/education/resources/explainers/australias-inflation-target.html)))

Just something to think about...

There is also a similar argument around the Quantitative Easing that has been undertaken in Europe and the USA, and how that has impacted on house prices and the affordability challenge - and this is actually perceived to be a bigger problem than the higher interest rates of the 1980s. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47458921 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47458921) Why is this important? Well, if you're a Baby Boomer, who is going to buy your house that is worth $500,000? The Millennial in 5 years time might not be able to having never got on the property ladder, especially in a capital city - so is the house really worth $500,000, or even the $250,000 that you have as a mortgage/loans secured on it?
Title: Re: Royal commission - Please sign to petition to keep brokers in the market
Post by: chester ver2.0 on March 15, 2019, 08:03:17 AM
My comments were not directed at you so please do not take any offence by them. It was directed at those who told the inquiry that a bank loaned them a amount that they had no way of managing the repayments. I think we all have stories of bank offers but we look at what we can afford now and if there are interest rises. Then we make our choice.  Kevin

I agree with you above there the guys i really felt for in the commission hearings were the farmer types that the bank just suddenly revalued their property and then sent a nice letter saying you now have to pay X more to make up for it