Post by: chester ver2.0 on November 19, 2018, 10:22:02 AM
Due to the costs involved it will be second hand so my query is around the year models
I know from 2015 to 2016 there was a model update involving a shape change and a few other odds and ends can someone in the brains trust detail the major differences and which model shape i should go for
I am lead to believe the 2015 does not have a DPF filter and the 2016 does ????
Post by: paull on November 19, 2018, 11:07:08 AM
The MY16 models got a new front end (grill, lights, bonnet etc), new dash layout, new media unit/centre column with softer touch materials on sides of centre dash column where you naturally rest your legs, new tail lights, and I'm pretty sure they got new injectors to go with the DPF and power increase from 195kw to 200kw (torque stayed the same).
I also believe there were some remapping of the transmission as well. I have the MY16 model and have never driven an older version to compare but from what others have said on various forums the MY16 transmission locks the torque converter in 6th far quicker. Also the PWR button (essentially sharpening up the throttle) makes a big difference in the MY16's where as others have said it didn't really do much on previous models. VX & Sahara also went to 18" wheels in MY16, with bigger front brakes so 17" wheels won't fit, not even Toyota rims (I believe ROH do make a 17" rim that fits but that is the only one as far as I'm aware).
I think from late on in 2016 they also dropped to a single starter battery. Mine's a mid-16 build and still has 2 starter batteries but I'm sure they changed that later in the year.
For me, the only reason to go pre-16 would be if you were wanting to do a lot of big power upgrades and wanted to change the exhaust. There are some DPF back exhaust upgrades but I'm guessing they don't give the performance upgrades that a non-DPF exhaust would. I guess if you do a lot of stop/start city driving you would also be better with a pre-16 so there's no risk of clogging the DPF. Otherwise I'd say get the MY16. It's much nicer inside (in my opinion) and looks a lot more modern. I've do plenty of 1hr or more trips and I've never even noticed the DPF regen cycle on mine so the DPF is a non-issue for me. The MY16 goes better, stops better, and has a better programmed transmission (although the transmission is still a bit of a let down to be honest).
If you're specifically looking at GXL I think they changed whether or not there were any steering wheel controls a few times over the years so if that's something you want then you'd need to check whether the specific car you're looking at has them. I know the MY16 GXL's didn't, but I think the MY15 and MY17 did. Go figure!
Post by: chester ver2.0 on November 19, 2018, 11:10:09 AM
You say they have gone back to 1 starter battery. Is there still the space on the other side to fit a second battery???
Post by: paull on November 19, 2018, 11:22:00 AM
Post by: wilson79 on November 19, 2018, 12:17:35 PM
I purchased a genuine Toyota battery tray cost 90 bucks I think, all it is though is a plastic tray and the clamp and bolts required to hold the battery in..
I have never driven an older one so i dont have anything else to compare..
Post by: achjimmy on November 19, 2018, 05:21:31 PM
Post by: KingBilly on November 19, 2018, 06:29:45 PM
KB
Post by: paull on November 19, 2018, 07:13:53 PM
The usual 10 year cycle has been and gone, and for what it is, the 200 doesn't have any real competition, at least not in Aus. It is still selling well so there is little incentive to do much with it, at least until stricter emissions regulations come in.
Also the fact that they've just released a diesel Lexus version (which they said they would never do) and it is still based on the same drivetrain as the current 200 (clunky 6 speed auto and all) implies they're going to be sticking with it for a while. They wouldn't have gone to the expense of releasing the diesel Lexus if there was going to be big changes in the near future, or at least that's my guess.
It'll be interesting to see how much the big yank tank pickups infiltrate the market over the next few years. If/when they start making them in factory right hand drive so the Aus prices aren't inflated by $30k to cover the local conversion then that puts them squarely in the LC200 $ bracket. I believe the new RAM 1500 is already planned for RHD production, as well as maybe the Chevvy, and I'm guessing the new Ram 2500 due next year will also be. Granted they're not as town-friendly as the 200 but some of them are arguable more luxurious than the 200 with better towing ability, so I think they could start to hurt the 200 sales. Perhaps that will make Toyota sit up and take notice.
Post by: GeoffA on November 19, 2018, 07:24:01 PM
.......with better towing ability, so I think they could start to hurt the 200 sales.....
The Ram 1500 should be ignored for towing IMO, due to the useless rear axle capacity.....
:cheers:
Post by: paull on November 19, 2018, 08:10:55 PM
From what I can see the 1500's are bit of a waste of time. They're just like a physically bigger version of the standard 1T utes, without much/any additional power (if you're talking diesel) and generally with less payload. It's just bigger (and less convenient because of it) and a lot more expensive......though likely nicer and a lot more luxurious. They obviously make a lot more sense in the US where they don't have many 1T ute equivalents, and they have bigger car parking spaces, but they just don't seem to make much sense here........that is unless you want one with a howling V8 under the bonnet that sounds fantastic.
The 2500's on the other hand would be great......as long as don't need to get into city centre car parks. 1000Nm engines and a long wheelbase will tow most things effortlessly. Heated and cooled everything, proper factory tow packs, and comfortable enough to live out of. If they were factory RHD and priced at $120k instead of $150k then I think they'd sell lot........and probably to people who would otherwise have bought a 200.
Post by: Fox67 on November 19, 2018, 09:17:04 PM
My first 200 was a 2011 GXL with the 4.7 petrol, lovely motor that wasn't as thirsty as you would think. I was going to get the last of the non DPF VX's in late 2015, until I saw the new VX in the flesh and knew I would be silly getting the old shape, the interior is so much more modern. I have just run out of warranty on my car and have decided to keep it until I see what the 300 looks like in 2021 (apparently).
Paul pretty much covered the differences between the model years, although I reckon the build quality isn't as good on newer car, but I am being picky.
I don't tow anything so I would actually prefer the 5.7 petrol and 8 speed auto from the Lexus dropped in the 200.
Post by: callmejoe on November 20, 2018, 08:45:04 AM
Personally think you'll find more bang for your buck..
Post by: Hookie on November 20, 2018, 01:14:22 PM
Post by: avotrol on November 20, 2018, 04:02:15 PM
Post by: gronk on November 20, 2018, 04:04:33 PM
A Y62 just makes a lot of sense for dollar value, comfort, economy, capability and towing ability.
Does make a lot of sense....but, a point worth mentioning for some, it is a touch bigger than the 200 series, and as such, you would have to make sure it fits in your garage !
Post by: vern on November 20, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Does make a lot of sense....but, a point worth mentioning for some, it is a touch bigger than the 200 series, and as such, you would have to make sure it fits in your garage !150mm longer, 30mm lower (than a gxl td), 20mm wider. Not a great deal.
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Post by: petrolburner on November 20, 2018, 05:11:55 PM
Y62 new or used is far and away better value than a 200series.
You’ll get a top spec, less km, more power, more capability and pay less. 😁😁 the 200wouldnt even get a look in for me.
Post by: vern on November 20, 2018, 05:21:06 PM
Not sure where you get 30mm lower from??? Stock Y62 has more clearance than a stock 200, stick it on 35’s with only a 2” lift it towers over a 200.Roof height. 1940mm vs 1970mm.
Y62 new or used is far and away better value than a 200series.
You’ll get a top spec, less km, more power, more capability and pay less.the 200wouldnt even get a look in for me.
I know all about the more clearance, and how much it's a better car, that's why I bought one
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Post by: gronk on November 20, 2018, 07:32:26 PM
150mm longer, 30mm lower (than a gxl td), 20mm wider. Not a great deal.
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It is when you have a standard garage at 5.5m long and you put a bullbar on, and you also have a side door near the front of the 4wd !!
Post by: vern on November 20, 2018, 07:55:40 PM
It is when you have a standard garage at 5.5m long and you put a bullbar on, and you also have a side door near the front of the 4wd !!Yes I understand that, I can't leave anything in front of the car or the roller door won't shut
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Post by: JusyApples on November 20, 2018, 09:08:20 PM
Not sure where you get 30mm lower from??? Stock Y62 has more clearance than a stock 200, stick it on 35’s with only a 2” lift it towers over a 200.But they are damn ugly
Y62 new or used is far and away better value than a 200series.
You’ll get a top spec, less km, more power, more capability and pay less. 😁😁 the 200wouldnt even get a look in for me.
Post by: Hookie on November 21, 2018, 05:45:42 AM
But they are damn ugly
They do start out that way, rolling out of the factory. Same can be said of the 200. But by the time you bolt on all your bits they can look every bit as tough as any other rig out there.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on November 21, 2018, 08:14:29 AM
Post by: callmejoe on November 21, 2018, 08:52:30 AM
I'm yet to hear of a Hydraulic system failing, a lift is readily available, and a simple process. The flex achieved from this suspension system is actually quite impressive. You can also fit heavier rear springs with air bag insert for towing.
Accessories wise all the bits and peices are there just not a huge selection of providers. Price wise i dont think it'll cost much more the settings up a 200 with "quality" parts if not the same..
Post by: Bird on November 21, 2018, 09:03:35 AM
But they are damn uglySo are most new cars...
design team plans for wagons
(https://davpack.s3.amazonaws.com/h/alt/l/single-wall-boxes_3.jpg)
WTF happened to the once Mighty Vitara??? Saw this hideous thing in town last week near the shrine.... Wannabe Jeep much?
(http://www.gupatrol.com/crapola/wtf.jpg)
Post by: avotrol on November 21, 2018, 09:12:47 AM
Post by: chester ver2.0 on November 21, 2018, 09:57:38 AM
I'd say your been lead down the WRONG garden path ......
I'm yet to hear of a Hydraulic system failing, a lift is readily available, and a simple process. The flex achieved from this suspension system is actually quite impressive. You can also fit heavier rear springs with air bag insert for towing.
Accessories wise all the bits and peices are there just not a huge selection of providers. Price wise i dont think it'll cost much more the settings up a 200 with "quality" parts if not the same..
What about the models with the HBMC suspension (not sure of the name is right) i thought they could not be altered
Post by: paceman on November 21, 2018, 09:58:45 AM
So are most new cars...
design team plans for wagons
(https://davpack.s3.amazonaws.com/h/alt/l/single-wall-boxes_3.jpg)
WTF happened to the once Mighty Vitara??? Saw this hideous thing in town last week near the shrine.... Wannabe Jeep much?
(http://www.gupatrol.com/crapola/wtf.jpg)
that's not a vitara... that's the new jimny, which has always been a bit boxy... and underrated...
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/suzuki-jimny-2019-review-international-114914/ (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/suzuki-jimny-2019-review-international-114914/)
Post by: callmejoe on November 21, 2018, 10:06:26 AM
What about the models with the HBMC suspension (not sure of the name is right) i thought they could not be altered
You can lift a HBMC models. Which all Y62 now have from 2015. it'll give you a 2in lift.
The rear is just a cgange of springs and castor correction to help tyre life. With the front you swap out the wish bone or what ever you called it with modified 1's.
Post by: Pete79 on November 21, 2018, 11:32:29 AM
So are most new cars...I know right...
WTF happened to the once Mighty Vitara??? Saw this hideous thing in town last week near the shrine.... Wannabe Jeep much?
Like what happened to the once mighty Patrol.... :P
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQGqBF5knjhyPNC_rDHZ5JvdRkdpwTrr9ejNdbtzWISAjE4xMJ8)
Post by: Bird on November 21, 2018, 11:48:06 AM
Quote from: paceman
that's not a vitara... that's the new jimny, which has always been a bit boxy... and underrated...
the vitara morphed into Jimny... then ...
Bit Boxy?? Overlord of understatements ???
Post by: paceman on November 21, 2018, 11:49:45 AM
the vitara morphed into Jimny... then ...
Bit Boxy?? Overlord of understatements ???
no, the vitara is still it's own vehicle...
http://www.suzuki.com.au/vehicles/suv/vitara (http://www.suzuki.com.au/vehicles/suv/vitara)
Post by: Bird on November 21, 2018, 11:53:01 AM
no, the vitara is still it's own vehicle...its what the jimmy is based off... anyway you look at it, 4wds are piss weak from where they came from.
http://www.suzuki.com.au/vehicles/suv/vitara (http://www.suzuki.com.au/vehicles/suv/vitara)
Post by: paceman on November 21, 2018, 12:15:29 PM
its what the jimmy is based off... anyway you look at it, 4wds are piss weak from where they came from.
actually, it's the other way around :D jimny has been around since 1970, vitara developed to be the next step up from the jimny in 1988:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Jimny
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Vitara
in any case, part of the issue is that people buy for a variety of reasons (looks , practicality, budget, etc...) and everyone has a valid reason.
just because we don't like it, doesn't necessarily make it a bad vehicle...
the Y62 is a perfect case in point... very underrated as a vehicle, but some people don't like the looks (like the BT50 also), so it is discarded as a potential option...
Post by: Hookie on November 21, 2018, 01:04:59 PM
anyway you look at it, 4wds are piss weak from where they came from.
I disagree. I think modern 4WDs are way more capable than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Better brakes, better suspension, better traction control, tons more power.
If you want to talk about reliability and longevity I'd say that's a different argument that I wouldn't have waded into anywhere near as quickly, but for straight up off road ability, I think modern 4WDs beat the old ones easily, pound for pound.
Post by: Pete79 on November 21, 2018, 02:19:34 PM
A thread about overweight and oversized modern 4wds has turned into a conversation about awesome little rigs..... ;D ;D Gold!!!
Hookie has put down the challange and I'll gladly take him up in it.
I'll bring my 1991 very slightly modified 4wd and meet any swaggers in there very slighly modified modern 4wds at Glasshouse any weekend and see which vehicle is more capible, pound for pound... :cup: :cup:
And Paceman is right.
The Jimny is the original rig that has been out driving toyotas since for ever. :angel:
They made the Vitara for the pretty city people, then we went and threw some gears and lockers in those hairdressers cars and kept out driving toyotas...... :-*
Post by: Swannie on November 21, 2018, 02:45:25 PM
Swannie
Post by: doc evil on November 21, 2018, 02:47:29 PM
I love it!
A thread about overweight and oversized modern 4wds has turned into a conversation about awesome little rigs..... ;D ;D Gold!!!
Hookie has put down the challange and I'll gladly take him up in it.
I'll bring my 1991 very slightly modified 4wd and meet any swaggers in there very slighly modified modern 4wds at Glasshouse any weekend and see which vehicle is more capible, pound for pound... :cup: :cup:
And Paceman is right.
The Jimny is the original rig that has been out driving toyotas since for ever. :angel:
They made the Vitara for the pretty city people, then we went and threw some gears and lockers in those hairdressers cars and kept out driving toyotas...... :-*
Happy to do the opposite too Pete, How about a 2 month extended canning stock route trip incorporating the Kimberley and centre.
Me with my slightly modified barge arse 4wd and your slightly modded light weight...…..
Horses for courses...…….as they say.
Post by: Pete79 on November 21, 2018, 03:25:22 PM
Happy to do the opposite too Pete, How about a 2 month extended canning stock route trip incorporating the Kimberley and centre.Sounds great!
Me with my slightly modified barge arse 4wd and your slightly modded light weight...…..
Horses for courses...…….as they say.
When are we going??
To be fair though your, slightly modified barge arse 4wd falls in the middle ground in this discussion. One could say it’s almost in the Goldilocks zone; not too big, not too small...
I don’t recall anyone ever saying that a 2m wide, 6m long, 4.5 ton Dodge Ram was a comparable vehicle to a chopped GU patrol wagon.
But those hideous yank tanks keep popping up when people ask about 200s or Y62s, so those former Japanese family wagons must be getting so fat and so far removed from were they started these days that people are looking at completely impractical vehicles as viable a comparison.
I know I like to throw a bit of mud with the size of the modern wagon (and for those that haven’t realized, it is all in fun) but it’s a pretty scary thought that there really could be soccer mums in the city’s trading in their oversized 200 series for a monster sized Ram 2500 or F350 to do the school run in the not too distant future.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on November 21, 2018, 04:20:16 PM
The modern stuff isn't designed to be fitted with a bar each end, winch, roof rack etc. like lotsa people do nowadays.
So you have to really be a bit careful in how you go about it.
The Jimny came from the Stockman line of models.
The Vitara came from a different line that was needed for families, and is a bigger vehicle.
A friend calls his the Grande Viagra.
Post by: Rumpig on November 21, 2018, 06:08:08 PM
Happy to do the opposite too Pete, How about a 2 month extended canning stock route trip incorporating the Kimberley and centre.cough...cough...Cape York...cough...cough....had to fly home :o ;D
Me with my slightly modified barge arse 4wd and your slightly modded light weight...…..
Horses for courses...…….as they say.
Post by: doc evil on December 02, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Sounds great!
When are we going??
To be fair though your, slightly modified barge arse 4wd falls in the middle ground in this discussion. One could say it’s almost in the Goldilocks zone; not too big, not too small...
<snip>
Leaving Perth end of June for 6 weeks doing the CSR and west coast. Week either side from brisvegas. Your baby ;D 4WD is more than welcome.....
cough...cough...Cape York...cough...cough....had to fly home :o ;D
Yeah, couldn't hang around whilst the impact damage was fixed. :angel: