Post by: DannyG on July 29, 2018, 07:42:01 PM
Its not really outdoor but it will still be exposed to the elements a bit. Im thinking some slight wetness when the wind is blowing the rain hard enough.
My initial idea is that melamine carcass's for the cabinetry might still be ok if I use some reasonably weather proof doors and benchtops??
Or is there another material thats cost effective but more weather proof? What about bench tops? Stainless is a bit industrial and will be expensive and a stone top will be a bit pricey too I think?
Any ideas? Thanks for any help.
Post by: austastar on July 29, 2018, 08:13:38 PM
Precast concrete carcase and bench top?
Cheers
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Post by: DannyG on July 29, 2018, 08:22:30 PM
Hi,
Precast concrete carcase and bench top?
Cheers
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I like the concrete benchtops and I have seen them made on youtube but I dont know how to make precast carcass's??
Post by: gronk on July 29, 2018, 08:35:05 PM
This is just one place...
Post by: DannyG on July 29, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
https://www.flatpackkitchens.com.au/diy-outdoor-kitchens (https://www.flatpackkitchens.com.au/diy-outdoor-kitchens)
This is just one place...
Thanks yeh I have looked at those but at $7000 or more for a pretty basic kitchen it is out of my price range. I am looking to do something myself in a more reasonable price range.
Post by: vern on July 29, 2018, 08:52:31 PM
I like the concrete benchtops and I have seen them made on youtube but I dont know how to make precast carcass's??I made concrete benchtops for our last house. Used melamine to make up a mold. Put reo in, concrete mob made up a special batch, think it was just concrete but with 7mm rock. Key tp a good finish is to get all the air bubbles out, so hire a conrete vibrator.
Sealed it with a special sealer to prevent staining, then coated it in beeswax.
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Post by: DannyG on July 29, 2018, 08:55:01 PM
I made concrete benchtops for our last house. Used melamine to make up a mold. Put reo in, concrete mob made up a special batch, think it was just concrete but with 7mm rock. Key tp a good finish is to get all the air bubbles out, so hire a conrete vibrator.
Sealed it with a special sealer to prevent staining, then coated it in beeswax.
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Thanks Vern Yeh I have watched a lot of Youtube vids on the subject. I am keen to give it a try. Id love to make a large outdoor table using the technique.
Post by: Marcus73 on July 29, 2018, 08:59:06 PM
I am looking to do something myself in a more reasonable price range.
Cardboard box perhaps?
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Post by: DannyG on July 29, 2018, 09:01:16 PM
Cardboard box perhaps?
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Yes ill make a special cardboard box outdoor table for you to sit your steak on.... :-*
Post by: gronk on July 29, 2018, 09:21:56 PM
Post by: vern on July 29, 2018, 09:27:22 PM
Thanks Vern Yeh I have watched a lot of Youtube vids on the subject. I am keen to give it a try. Id love to make a large outdoor table using the technique.Our island bench we made was 50mm thick, 1000mm wide, and 3200mm long with a sink in it. Was pretty heavy, we just made the plinth and carcasses with a few extra double walls in them, worked a treat. Also did bathroom and other kitchen benches too.
Think it cost ne $149 for concrete, reo we had, and whatever the cost of the melamine was
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Post by: DannyG on July 29, 2018, 09:50:49 PM
I work at a benchtop manufacturer....Laminex only. A white back laminex top will be pretty waterproof for any water falling onto it....and I can't see how it would get wet underneath.
What do you mean by a white back laminex top? Is it melamine on the underside?
Would it be safe to say that a sheet of melamine is reasonably weather proof if no water gets to the chip board under the laminated finish? Im not talking about being outside in the rain but just in a potentially exposed environment. They use it for bathroom vanities for instance.
Our island bench we made was 50mm thick, 1000mm wide, and 3200mm long with a sink in it. Was pretty heavy, we just made the plinth and carcasses with a few extra double walls in them, worked a treat. Also did bathroom and other kitchen benches too.
Think it cost ne $149 for concrete, reo we had, and whatever the cost of the melamine was
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Good work, care to show us some pics? :)
Post by: gronk on July 29, 2018, 10:35:27 PM
A vanity or even kitchen cupboards will only swell around the bottom if it sits in water or continually gets damp.
Post by: KeithB on July 30, 2018, 04:40:11 AM
https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/building-boards/fibrecement-accessories/compressed-cement-sheeting (https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/building-boards/fibrecement-accessories/compressed-cement-sheeting)
Post by: glenm64 on July 30, 2018, 07:49:04 AM
Doors are all natural timber but theres always lots of options for doors.
I picked up 2 marble slabs cheap that I used for the top. But I reckon a concrete top would be easy to DIY.
Cheers Glen
Post by: paceman on July 30, 2018, 09:47:03 AM
I made my alfresco kitchen with a treated pine frame and cement sheet cladding with a acrylic texture coat finish.
Doors are all natural timber but theres always lots of options for doors.
I picked up 2 marble slabs cheap that I used for the top. But I reckon a concrete top would be easy to DIY.
Cheers Glen
have you got any pics of this?
i am currently in the process of trying to design a new BBQ stand/kitchen bench...
Post by: kylarama on July 30, 2018, 10:00:05 AM
If your budget allows. Look at Compact Laminate (by Laminex group) for the doors and top. We use this stuff all the time in toilet and shower partitions. Also joinery in laboratory fit outs.
Also another brand Tricoya.
https://www.gunnersens.com.au/info/tricoya/?gclid=CjwKCAjwy_XaBRAWEiwApfjKHgKXQ4jFTtQYQb-vVrkerUvSuc4ML8lT7pDvuG5viTvIwPPKXtcBAhoCW44QAvD_BwE
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Post by: DannyG on July 30, 2018, 10:27:49 AM
Now I am wondering how much heat melamine or even laminated bench tops can handle. I may have to put some sort of shield around the BBQ so its not getting the cabinetry too hot.
Post by: glenm64 on July 30, 2018, 10:38:22 AM
have you got any pics of this?Im on shift for the next few days.
i am currently in the process of trying to design a new BBQ stand/kitchen bench...
Will get a few later..
Cheers Glen
Post by: kylarama on July 30, 2018, 11:28:04 AM
Thanks for the info gents some really good ideas for me to consider.
Now I am wondering how much heat melamine or even laminated bench tops can handle. I may have to put some sort of shield around the BBQ so its not getting the cabinetry too hot.
You definitely want something non-combustible around the sides, base and back of the bbq. Maybe line the face of the carcasses with cement sheet.
Benchtop should be okay.
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Post by: Pete79 on July 30, 2018, 01:29:20 PM
Our area is reasonably exposed and we built a small wall to give the cabinet some shelter so it doesn’t get rain on it directly, but the floor 300mm in front of it does get very wet in storms.
I guess our climate is a little different to yours, but during our wet months one side of the house doesn’t really dry out for many weeks. At this time the timber swells a lot and half of the doors become very hard to open and close. The drawers aren’t that bad.
This summer I expect I’ll rip all the doors off and give the edges a hit with the plainer.
I expected some movement with solid timber, but didn’t expect it to swell as much as it does.
I haven’t built my bench top yet, but when I do I’ll be using some thick Fibro sheeting and tile the top of it.
Post by: glenm64 on July 30, 2018, 02:02:26 PM
have you got any pics of this?
i am currently in the process of trying to design a new BBQ stand/kitchen bench...
Heres a link to it.
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28369.msg802476#msg802476 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28369.msg802476#msg802476)
I made the frame and clad it with blue cement fibre sheet. Acrylic rendered it all and then put it in place. The black marble top is in 2 pieces with the join at the BBQ, so you cant see it. The doors are natural edged timber with stainless steel inserts. For the cupboards my son cut me up melamine to box them out and seal everything up. You can see the last one on the right that didnt have a door on it when the photo was taken.
It is cladded around the BBQ areas to insulate the frame. It doesnt transfer any heat to the timber.
It gets a bit of weather during winter but the melamine doesnt get any water on it. About the only maintenance it needs is some danish oil every 2nd year on the door timber. I could estapol the timber but it would lose some of its tone that I like.
Post by: DannyG on July 30, 2018, 02:21:27 PM
I like the rendered look, it gives colour options.
Post by: paceman on July 30, 2018, 04:33:22 PM
Heres a link to it.
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28369.msg802476#msg802476 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28369.msg802476#msg802476)
I made the frame and clad it with blue cement fibre sheet. Acrylic rendered it all and then put it in place. The black marble top is in 2 pieces with the join at the BBQ, so you cant see it. The doors are natural edged timber with stainless steel inserts. For the cupboards my son cut me up melamine to box them out and seal everything up. You can see the last one on the right that didnt have a door on it when the photo was taken.
It is cladded around the BBQ areas to insulate the frame. It doesnt transfer any heat to the timber.
It gets a bit of weather during winter but the melamine doesnt get any water on it. About the only maintenance it needs is some danish oil every 2nd year on the door timber. I could estapol the timber but it would lose some of its tone that I like.
Thanks mate... looks tip top...
What sort of joins did you end up using for the timber in the bbq cavity?
This is the spot that I am having trouble working out how to do...
The bbq has some weight to it, and I’m not a carpenter’s bum hole, so any tips would be great...
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Post by: glenm64 on July 30, 2018, 05:50:04 PM
Thanks mate... looks tip top...
What sort of joins did you end up using for the timber in the bbq cavity?
This is the spot that I am having trouble working out how to do...
The bbq has some weight to it, and I’m not a carpenter’s bum hole, so any tips would be great...
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Think they were just lap joins.
Quick and easy to do.
Post by: GBC on July 30, 2018, 08:10:19 PM
https://lamicolor.com.au/washroom-partitions/
You’ll only need to do it once.
BBQs like Weber q’s Don’t throw heat downward. I use mine on a plastic table. If you are looking at Laminex tops I’d think about that style of bbq.
Post by: JPH on August 01, 2018, 12:05:24 AM
The big issue is creating a non combustible layer between your carcass and BBQ. We've been using 15 mm compressed FC sheet and then making a stainless U capping to finish it off. Usually do this on the sides and under the BBQ.
I have a contact in Launceston who could cut the carcasses to size, if you need it. Hope this helps
Cheers Josh.
Post by: DannyG on August 02, 2018, 10:24:07 AM
I am leaning towards two different ideas but ill make the decision when we have finished building the house and get a better feel for what I want.
The first is just framing up the kitchen using treated pine and cladding it with cement sheets and rolling a rendered finish on it. Ill just use whatever for the shelves.
The second is to do the whole thing how ill do the doors for both ideas. And that is to weld up some 25x25mm stainless frames and just fill the inserts with stainless sheets.
Both ideas should be weather proof for years. It just depends on the look I am after I suppose.
As for the top, I wouldnt mind trying my hand at making some concrete tops. Because if they work out ok Id like to make a large custom dining table for the same area using a concrete top so the whole thing ties in together.
Josh, thanks for the offer of the contact. If I go down that path Ill look you up.
Post by: Fizzie on August 12, 2018, 05:31:15 PM
Maybe some other ideas ???
Post by: DannyG on July 31, 2019, 11:36:53 AM
I ended up welding together some alloy for the frame so that part will last the test of time being semi outdoors. The barby is just the old cheap barby top I have been using for years which is also ok in the elements.
But I used normal old cheap melamine for the lining and an even cheaper Bunnings bench top for the top....for now. Its not really getting any real weather on it but of course just being in an Alfresco area in Tassie it is subjected to some very cold conditions ;)
At a later date Ill look at a more permanent solution for the bench top, assuming this one eventually swells up. I also have fold up some stainless inserts to fill a couple of gaps yet but for the most part its done and being used.
DURING BUILD PROCESS
(https://www.ozisuzu.com.au/album/uploads/big/3a9ece08620c961fab14bdedebf0faea.jpg)
OUT IN ITS HOME
(https://www.ozisuzu.com.au/album/uploads/big/53d81c364b58bdfcf15a1132f80b47d8.JPG)
I also used alloy framed frosted glass doors which I think adds that outdoorsy look to it.
AND THE OUTLOOK THE BARBY LIVES WITH!
(https://www.ozisuzu.com.au/album/uploads/big/7f2b30cd150b0a231eba121158e87dc2.jpg)
Post by: Marcus73 on July 31, 2019, 11:44:13 AM
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Post by: loanrangie on July 31, 2019, 12:03:49 PM
Post by: Steffo1 on July 31, 2019, 03:13:06 PM
Post by: KeithB on July 31, 2019, 05:28:24 PM
Looks good. How do you reckon you'll go with gunk on the ceiling above the burners?
That's a good point. It's a wonderful looking job. Congratulations.
I once had a customer who didn't put any absorbent material (clay based pet litter is best) in his drip tray and the thing caught fire. It burned down his entire outdoor structure. A cheap gal canopy a bit bigger than the barbie with a big fan ducted through the roof is the ideal way to go. No need for filters. It will make life barbecuing much more pleasant and stop smoke blowing back into the house. It's also nice to put gunk proof lights inside the canopy.
Keith
Post by: GeoffA on July 31, 2019, 07:29:16 PM
Love the view, too... :cup:
:cheers:
Post by: DannyG on July 31, 2019, 07:51:22 PM
Looks good. How do you reckon you'll go with gunk on the ceiling above the burners?
Good question. We cooked a double roast on the rotisserie Sunday night and there was a little bit of smoke under the ceiling so it’ll definitely need some sort of extraction at some stage.
Post by: edz on July 31, 2019, 08:43:48 PM
Post by: DannyG on August 01, 2019, 09:34:00 AM
240 V to 12 V or solar power supply and a small inline bilge blower to create an updraft airflow to draw smoke / fume up through a small over head canopy vented up inside the eave then through some 75 mm expanding tube to an eave vent on the side of the house away from that area maybe.
Thanks Edz it looks like you have already build me one ;)
When we built the house the good wife wanted a good rangehood so she got this Italian made thing that is so noisy you have to wear ear protection when it is only running on low and if you dare put it up high it will suck the pots and pans off the cook top!
So it has to go. I am thinking it can go outside above the barby and ill duct it out to the eave the same way it is in the kitchen. It may not 'look' very outdoorsy but itll certainly remove anything that dares to go under it.
(https://www.ozisuzu.com.au/album/uploads/big/58ea4684bd5641a4b1eacf7a1eaf0637.jpg)
Post by: KeithB on August 01, 2019, 10:51:47 AM
https://www.condari.com.au/ (https://www.condari.com.au/)
We had them in our last two houses and they do great job. Very quiet on low speed and running flat out will pull the carrots out of the saucepan. And the filters will fit in the dishwasher.
If you are going to make up a separate canopy for the BBQ, I'd put in a commercial fan of at least 12 inches diameter designed to deal with the heat and muck. You need really good airflow to pick up the smoke from a BBQ. I used to manufacture this kind of gear. But that was two wives ago.
Keith
Post by: DannyG on August 01, 2019, 11:01:40 AM
But that was two wives ago.
Keith
That was a quite a lot of money ago ;)
Post by: glenm64 on August 01, 2019, 04:18:55 PM
Post by: sparksy on August 01, 2019, 06:56:29 PM
Discussed this with a sheet metalmaker mate of mine who said the secret is to fit a skirt around the outside of filter section larger than the area of the bbq and get it as low as possible.
I pressed up some SS sheet to make this. Works a lot better.