Author Topic: Supercheap Auto Winch  (Read 35686 times)

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Offline D4D

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2012, 09:13:49 AM »
I see no point in having a live 12v feed being exposed to the public where it connects to the winch  :-[

You fit an isolator switch on the low current side.

How is it 'exposed to public'
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Offline Maîneÿ . . .

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2012, 09:24:43 AM »

How is it 'exposed to public'

In this photo (off the Tigerz11 website) it shows 2 x bolts where (+) & (-) cables would attach  :-*
or do I interpret it wrong ???
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 09:29:51 AM by Maîneÿ . . . »

Offline Crockett

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2012, 12:55:57 PM »
Only connect the winch cable to the battery, when you go out bush and are prepared to put your vehicle into a position where you may need the winch for recovery :cheers:

Well said Mainey, no fun climbing out the window and trying to connect your winch to the battery and plug in the controller when your in the middle of the river.
  :cheers:

Offline singo-26

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2012, 01:00:39 PM »
In this photo (off the Tigerz11 website) it shows 2 x bolts where (+) & (-) cables would attach  :-*
or do I interpret it wrong ???

No you are not interpreting it wrong, but they are normally mounted inside a bar and not visible to the public.
Steve

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2012, 01:18:26 PM »
No you are not interpreting it wrong, but they are normally mounted inside a bar and not visible to the public.

but the only reason I knew they were there was because I've seen them on some vehicles and thought to myself 'wonder what would I happen if some dump pr!k (in a car park) shorted out the 2 x exposed wires for the winch'  >:D   >:D


Offline Roo

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2012, 02:44:55 PM »
hence isolating the main power feed with a switch or removing the cable from the terminal is probably wise.  there are HD switches available that will carry 600amps continuous for under $100. you cold link 2 batteries if you wanted. I was thinking or doing this although i reckon I'll just get another tigerz11 cable and use that if i think I need to link my 2 batteries for a nasty recovery.
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Offline Matto

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2012, 09:12:56 AM »
OK - Seems we have two discussions going on here.

1) Fuse. I want to fit something, so as to protect the batteries from a dead short in either the winch motor itself, or in the wiring. It runs through the engine bay and out under the bar - wouldn't take much for the insulation to rub through at a contact point, or for a stick to spike up and jag the cables. The big cable will be able to dump a lot of power very quickly, and you'd be into exploding battery territory. Which is something I don't want to happen. I recognise it'll be hard to find a fuse in the order of 600-800A, but I haven't even started looking yet. Surely there's something out there for a marine application, or something from the high-end car stereo world.

That said, it sounds like people don't run fuses inline with their winch power. That makes me nervous, but if everyone's doing it and no-one's having a problem, maybe I'm overthinking things.

2) The power isolation. I like the Tigerz cable, and almost ordered one last week. Unfortunately they're out of stock, and won't arrive till early June. I may yet just order one, but I would prefer to get this all sorted before then. I was intending to drop into a local welding shop, see if they've got any welding lead extension plugs for cheap, as I believe that's what the tigerz cable uses.

I thought about a big marine start switch, but they're expensive when you get into the size needed, especially considering the price of the tigerz alternative. Roo - is that the sort of switch you're referring to? Do you perchance have a link for the switch you mentioned? Might be an option for me - I like switches :).

In the short term - I really like kylarama's suggestion of fitting a longer bolt to the post and using a wingnut. It's low-tech, but it works and lets you put it on or off with ease.

As for :
but the only reason I knew they were there was because I've seen them on some vehicles and thought to myself 'wonder what would I happen if some dump pr!k (in a car park) shorted out the 2 x exposed wires for the winch'  >:D   >:D
Has anyone actually had this happen to them? I know it's a popular story on forums - "someone's mate's cousin's dog's wife's friend found his car ripped in two after youths spooled out the winch, attached it to his towbar, and then shorted the winch terminal". But I've never spoken to anyone who's even had their winch even tampered with whilst it's sitting in a carpark. I don't doubt it could happen, but it just doesn't ever seem to actually HAVE happened. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

Does anyone actually have any first-hand experience of having had their winch tampered with?


Back to the actual topic at hand.

Winch is in the bar and mounted up properly. I needed to get some longer bolts to mount the fairlead on the outside - the M10x30 bolts supplied were not long enough. Of course, you can't buy M10x40 bolts, so I ended up with 45mm long ones that I needed to shorten with a hacksaw. Worked well, fits perfectly.

The rope has been spooled on now, and the winch worked well. Running it in short 10 sec bursts resulted in no heat build up, which is what you'd expect in a no-load situation. Gearbox turned well, although the freespool is still VERY tight. I'll re-assess after a few more cycles of rope off/on.You couldn't fit any more rope onto the drum if you tried, so it's going to be interesting in a proper recovery situation, where the rope might not end up so neatly spooled on.

At one point, the winch refused to power in. WE had ~half the rope on, and J hit the button to add on another couple of metres. The solenoid was dropping home, but the winch wasn't working. After a couple of tries, I grabbed the multimeter to test out the connections, see where it was failing. Unfortunately, the next time J hit the button it started working, and didn't miss a beat for the rest of the day. So not wure what was going on there, but it looks like I need to go over the electricals. That's OK - as previously mentioned I'm going to rewire the winch to control box cables, so I'll fix it all up then.

ATM, the control box is simply cable-tied to the grill. I'll need to make up a bracket to hold the box - the supplied brackets are designed to hold the box on the winch itself, which is no good for us Aussies that hide them inside our bars. It won't be too difficult.

Currently I have the cable hooked onto one of the recovery points under the front. I had bought an eyelet to mount to the bar, so I could attach the cable up high. Unfortunately the largest eyelet available on Saturday was still too small for the winch hook. So I'll have a look through the Whitworths catalogue, I'm sure there's something that will suit.

Cheers!
Matto :)
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Offline Roo

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2012, 01:13:07 PM »
@ Whitworths this one is 600amps continuous for $100.

 or maybe this one would do for $70.
Cranking Rating: 10 sec: 2,000 Amps
Intermittent Rating 5 min: 600 Amps
Continuous Rating: 350 Amps
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Offline D4D

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2012, 01:22:31 PM »
I looked at the Whitworths switch last night, the 9.5xp pulls up to 480A so should do nicely. I think I'll fit one when I replace the Warn solenoid box with an Albright.
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Offline Matto

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2012, 09:23:00 AM »
Thanks Roo. I might go this one:
https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=123&item=84438&intAbsolutePage=1

It's smaller, and smaller-rated, but should be fine. 700A for 10 seconds should be a good reminder to me to winch in short bursts. Space under the bonnet is getting reasonably hard to come by, so the smaller switch will be a big help :).

Fuse-wise, I might go a pair of these in parallel:
https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=123&item=33535&intAbsolutePage=1&LinkedItem=33534&search123=700a%20fuse
400A each will give me a combined protection of 800A. That's above what the winch will draw in a normal situation (ie, motor not stalled), but will still protect me from a dead-short situation. I don't think the cable I've currently got would support 800A though, then again, not much will support hat sort of current short of copper buss-bars. Hmmm. May need to think some more on this one. It may be that having just the switch is protection enough.

Cheers for the link!
Matto :)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 09:26:46 AM by Matto »
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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2012, 10:41:08 AM »
Found the following test results from 4WD Action magazine when they tested winches in issue 126.

1st $1495 - Premier 9000lb    
2nd $2028 - Warn 9.5XP    
3rd $999 - TJM/OX 9500lb    
4th $799 - Ironman 9500lb    
5th $950 - Opposite Lock 9500lb    
6th $699 - TMAX 9000lb    
7th $799 - TMAX 10,000lb    
8th $2432 - Warn 12,000lb    
9th $1539 - Mile Marker 9000lb    
10th $934 - Warn Magnum 9000lb    


Then there is the 12000Lb Ironman winch @ $899 delivered   ;D

Offline camperd4d

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2012, 01:50:56 PM »
Guys I have no trouble not buying "big brand" equipment so long as you do abit of reseach on it before hand,alot of people turn there nose upto it I know,but change their attitude when that "cheap sh#%t" pulls them out........

,Ive got an ALDI  winch(built in the tiger factory as well) on my hilux cost me $249 run out special (normally $399 as well),its 9500lb came with a 2 year unlimited warranty,remote control and wireless control,with a handy torch,and some recovery gear and has help me out a couple times with extracting cars etc.........
For the money if it worked once your still infront compared to paying someone to recover your car.

Quite a few people around the traps swear by them now(due to there price),just need to replace the grease as the OP has with his winch,initailly then every so often pull it down and service it..took me about an hour to install it,and I added a separate SCA Isolator next to the battery so power is off until I need to use it(or anyone else trying to use it for me),Ive hidden the control box out of harms way behind the bar so I can reach the power switch but hard to find for others,As for a circut breaker, have you seen the AMPs these babies pull,I dont run one,but wouldnt mind fitting one for cable protection,however the cable is rated accordingly. I know of 2 other guys at work also with the same winch as well,who are in 4wd clubs also with alot of them in the clubs too.
No way i was paying $2000 for a WARN to use seldom.....
just try not to put your self in a predicament in the first place. 


« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 02:04:51 PM by camperd4d »

Offline Matto

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2012, 02:46:15 PM »
On the topic of power isolation, I've bit the bullet and ordered one of the Tigerz11 disconnect cables from an ebay seller here:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300438061775&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:AU:3160

Yes, it's overpriced, but they have stock now and I'm impatient :). Should be a good solution for me, since I doubt I could squeeze a marine switch under the bonnet.

Also, given that no-one else seems to run a fuse on a winch, I'm considering abandoning that idea.

Probably won't be much movement in this thread for a couple of weeks while I'm away for work. Will have to wait for the disconnect cable to arrive before I rewire the control box. In the meantime, play nice everyone.

Cheers!
Matto :)
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Offline kiwipete

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2012, 04:11:45 PM »
I recently bought a 13,000lb Chinese winch same as the one below but without the rope...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-12V-13000LB-ELECTRIC-WINCH-REMOTE-ATV-TRUCK-BOAT-/251048184848?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a73a34c10#ht_8075wt_1396

I also removed the gearbox to both check the grease and to rotate it so that it would sit correctly in the Bullbar... I was surprised to see that this winch was packed solid with grease, not a smearing - Packed properly. I was prepared to replace it but decided that it could be a job later down the track as it looked perfectly fine by me....

Another thing I did was I moved the control box and solenoid pack up to just behind the main battery.  replaced all cables with decent cables probably twice the size as the ones supplied and when you put the two together I am happy I did the upgrade... cost a extra $100.00 but a proper job...

The reason I got one was POM as I have survived for years without a winch but I couldn't bear getting bogged with the family and camper trailer....   
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Offline britts

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2012, 04:38:47 PM »
Have a play with a paperclip and where your controller plugs in, you might be suprised that your winch will start, so I've heard ;D

Offline Matto

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2012, 04:43:51 PM »
The reason I got one was POM as I have survived for years without a winch but I couldn't bear getting bogged with the family and camper trailer....   
My reason exactly Pete.

Sounds like you had a good win with your winch. How does yours freespool, with that much grease inside it? Easily?

Have a play with a paperclip and where your controller plugs in, you might be suprised that your winch will start, so I've heard ;D
Hi Britts,

Is that in response to my "Does anyone actually have any first-hand experience of having had their winch tampered with?" question above? I've no doubt you're correct - all the hand controller is is a couple of switches, so shorting out the right terminals would indeed make it work. My question was more about "has this actually happened to anyone in the wild?". Same as the stories about people waking up in a bath full of ice minus a kidney - no-one's doubting that it's physically possible, but I've never actually met anyone that it's happened to (either the winch, or the kidneys  ;D).

Cheers!
Matto :)
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Offline D4D

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2012, 05:24:30 PM »
Have a play with a paperclip and where your controller plugs in, you might be suprised that your winch will start, so I've heard ;D

Doesn't work on the new 5 pin controller versions
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Offline Maîneÿ . . .

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2012, 07:18:56 PM »
I recently bought a 13,000lb Chinese winch same as the one below but without the rope...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-12V-13000LB-ELECTRIC-WINCH-REMOTE-ATV-TRUCK-BOAT-/251048184848?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a73a34c10#ht_8075wt_1396


The Hammerhead winch shown has a 6.7 HP motor, which is pretty high in comparison to others of similar class
all the numbers look like they add up to something reasonable and it may be worth the $355  ???

Rated Line Pull: 13000LB
Motor: 6.7HP Series Wound
Line: 26mt Dyneema 10mm
Gear Train: 3 Stage Planetary
Gear Train Ratio: 187.2:1
Clutch: Flexible Operation, Water Resistant
Braking: Automatic Drum Brake
Drum Size: 64mm x 223mm
Fairlead: Heavy Duty Alloy

LINE SPEED AND AMPS
Line Pull: 13000LB (5900kg)
Line Speed 1st layer: 4.8ft/min
Motor: 430Amps
Rated Line Pull Per Layer:
Layer 1: 13000lb (5900kg)
Layer 2: 9210lb (4541kg)
Layer 3: 9210lb (4010kg)
Layer 4: 8030lb (3361kg)


So what is the likely problem with this as a winch that would not get used too often  :cheers:


Offline Crockett

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2012, 08:46:43 PM »
The Hammerhead winch shown has a 6.7 HP motor, which is pretty high in comparison to others of similar class
all the numbers look like they add up to something reasonable and it may be worth the $355  ???

Rated Line Pull: 13000LB
Motor: 6.7HP Series Wound
Line: 26mt Dyneema 10mm
Gear Train: 3 Stage Planetary
Gear Train Ratio: 187.2:1
Clutch: Flexible Operation, Water Resistant
Braking: Automatic Drum Brake
Drum Size: 64mm x 223mm
Fairlead: Heavy Duty Alloy

LINE SPEED AND AMPS
Line Pull: 13000LB (5900kg)
Line Speed 1st layer: 4.8ft/min
Motor: 430Amps
Rated Line Pull Per Layer:
Layer 1: 13000lb (5900kg)
Layer 2: 9210lb (4541kg)
Layer 3: 9210lb (4010kg)
Layer 4: 8030lb (3361kg)


So what is the likely problem with this as a winch that would not get used too often  :cheers:

Thats exactly what I was just thinking, and at 36kg with only 26m of 10mm rope its got something HD inside somewhere  :cheers:

Offline McGirr

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2012, 08:56:19 PM »

Matto

I would take it back and start again  :-*

Mark
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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2012, 09:04:52 PM »
The Hammerhead winch shown has a 6.7 HP motor, which is pretty high in comparison to others of similar class
all the numbers look like they add up to something reasonable and it may be worth the $355  ???

Rated Line Pull: 13000LB
Motor: 6.7HP Series Wound
Line: 26mt Dyneema 10mm
Gear Train: 3 Stage Planetary
Gear Train Ratio: 187.2:1
Clutch: Flexible Operation, Water Resistant
Braking: Automatic Drum Brake
Drum Size: 64mm x 223mm
Fairlead: Heavy Duty Alloy

LINE SPEED AND AMPS
Line Pull: 13000LB (5900kg)
Line Speed 1st layer: 4.8ft/min
Motor: 430Amps
Rated Line Pull Per Layer:
Layer 1: 13000lb (5900kg)
Layer 2: 9210lb (4541kg)
Layer 3: 9210lb (4010kg)
Layer 4: 8030lb (3361kg)


So what is the likely problem with this as a winch that would not get used too often  :cheers:
Thats the same one i've been looking at, espicially after I burnt out the motor on the warn

Offline Roo

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2012, 12:14:12 AM »
........snip

Fuse-wise, I might go a pair of these in parallel:
https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=123&item=33535&intAbsolutePage=1&LinkedItem=33534&search123=700a%20fuse
400A each will give me a combined protection of 800A. That's above what the winch will draw in a normal situation (ie, motor not stalled), but will still protect me from a dead-short situation. I don't think the cable I've currently got would support 800A though, then again, not much will support hat sort of current short of copper buss-bars. Hmmm. May need to think some more on this one. It may be that having just the switch is protection enough.

Cheers for the link!
Matto :)

those fuses are rated to 400amps @ 32volts. how does that current rating change with only 12volts?
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Offline Matto

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2012, 07:54:25 AM »
those fuses are rated to 400amps @ 32volts. how does that current rating change with only 12volts?
It doesn't. They're two seperate specifications. The fuse itself is built to handle a maximm of 32v (ie, the insulation, etc), whilst the fuse will blow when more than 400A is drawn through it (at any voltage).

I'm using 240v household circuit breakers in my camper, and they work fine @ 12v. They'll trip at 10A, regardless of the voltage present.

Cheers!
Matto :)
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Offline Matto

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2012, 07:55:36 AM »
I would take it back and start again  :-*

Not a chance Mr McGirr. I'm not covering myself with grease again anytime soon! I'm still finding blue gunk in places...

Cheers!
Matto :)
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Offline Aussie Blue

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Re: Supercheap Auto Winch
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2012, 09:09:48 AM »
Not a chance Mr McGirr. I'm not covering myself with grease again anytime soon! I'm still finding blue gunk in places...

Cheers!
Matto :)

Now that makes for an interesting speculation.. >:D

I drove straight past your campsite over Easter didn't know it was you or I would have popped in... (did that little Nissan kick up heaps of dust for you as well?? He didn't want to slow down when he went past me)

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