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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Steffo1 on July 05, 2019, 07:51:29 PM

Title: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Steffo1 on July 05, 2019, 07:51:29 PM
For consideration.
https://www.boatsales.com.au/editorial/details/why-australias-towing-laws-are-ridiculous-119355/ (https://www.boatsales.com.au/editorial/details/why-australias-towing-laws-are-ridiculous-119355/)
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: #jonesy on July 05, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Except first paragraph. A car licence can drive vehicle not exceeding 4,500

The rest makes some sense.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: prodigyrf on July 06, 2019, 02:13:20 AM
"Consider the caravan buyer, who couples a wagon to a twin-axle caravan. Without the legal requirement to do any training a novice can drive a combination that weighs around 7.0 tonnes.
It’s by far the least stable vehicle combination that can be devised, with an unregulated amount of weight on a tow ball that’s behind the tow vehicle’s rear axle.
On top of that is nationwide acceptance of an electric trailer braking system whose braking force can be adjusted at will by the tow vehicle driver."

It's simply not a problem because by the time you can afford a caravan you're an experienced driver and you've got your head screwed on plus you do your homework about it all. Probably more risk with young noob renters hiring a tandem trailer full of moving gear or taking a load to the tip.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Spada on July 06, 2019, 06:47:23 AM
some really thought provoking concepts in that article???............does make you wonder about the sensibility of some of the regulations.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: CTL on July 06, 2019, 06:48:18 AM
It's simply not a problem because by the time you can afford a caravan you're an experienced driver and you've got your head screwed on plus you do your homework about it all.

Bahahahahaha, now that is the quote of the year
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bigfish on July 06, 2019, 06:59:11 AM
"Consider the caravan buyer, who couples a wagon to a twin-axle caravan. Without the legal requirement to do any training a novice can drive a combination that weighs around 7.0 tonnes.
It’s by far the least stable vehicle combination that can be devised, with an unregulated amount of weight on a tow ball that’s behind the tow vehicle’s rear axle.
On top of that is nationwide acceptance of an electric trailer braking system whose braking force can be adjusted at will by the tow vehicle driver."

It's simply not a problem because by the time you can afford a caravan you're an experienced driver and you've got your head screwed on plus you do your homework about it all. Probably more risk with young noob renters hiring a tandem trailer full of moving gear or taking a load to the tip.

See plenty of couples in their 20s and 30s towing vans around up here in the tourist season(FNQ).  Also see heaps of older drivers who have no bloody idea on towing a van or parking it. This is why we need a van licence to be introduced. I,d hazard a guess and say around 50% of rigs are over weight (just looking at whats on the road and seeing the overloaded tow vehicle), many owners couldnt care less and if people did their homework...there would be no overweight vans. Often the "young noob" renters with their tandem trailers moving house or going to the tip only travel short distances in mainly suburbs. Experienced car drivers does not mean jackShit when it comes to towing.

I also disagree with the articles take on the breakaway system. It is there if a coupling failure occurs. Chains are also required. We set up a system 2 weeks ago on a new 6 meter boat trailer and it was set up so that as soon as the coupling let go the brakes came on and the chains still held the trailer on...its not hard to do and simply an adjustment to get right..  Just relying on the breakaway system would be dangerous .  I,ve seen plenty with stuffed batteries that wouldnt stop a skateboard from taking off!
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: shanegtr on July 06, 2019, 08:42:50 AM
I think that there should be a class of license to be able to tow. Example, truck licenses are separated into many difference classes - here in WA theres 5 classes - LR, MR, HR, HC, MC. Why is towing with your run of the mill light vehicle treated differently?
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: #jonesy on July 06, 2019, 09:04:03 AM
The first 3 classes of truck can also tow (without testing) up to 9 tonne trailers.

Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: briann532 on July 06, 2019, 09:28:53 AM
Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream.

Tow, tow, tow your boat, flat out on the highway, overloaded with  crap brakes, no experience, in holiday mode with all your worldly experience of catching the weekly train and driving to grandmas on Sunday.
Load all the weight at the back, cos it's too heavy on the Kia's towball otherwise and the steering gets too light. See I do know how this works, just ask me, I'm an expert.
I've put the excess bits on the Kia roof, it should take 300k'gs, its new with no rust. Roof top tent, Gerry cans and gas bottles too. They smell a bit so I don't want them in the cabin.
Now chuck on my favourite music and lets belt up that highway. What could go wrong?

On  a serious note, when we went to pick up our new caravan, they wouldn't let us take it without the correct weights being ascertained, checking the brake system and a full run down on towing and even an explanation brochure on weights and braking systems. We were told how to pack, where to pack and what not to do. What to check, what to look out for and why.
I do however scratch my head at the breakaway system with chains???
But credit to the people who made sure we were going to be safe.

Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: GeoffA on July 06, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
I do however scratch my head at the breakaway system with chains???

Chains are attached to the tow bar.
Tow bars have been known to be ripped off in a collision.
The breakaway lead should be attached to the body or chassis.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Brij on July 06, 2019, 10:59:51 PM
Pity quite a number of his points are based on misinterpretations of the existing rules

 
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: achjimmy on July 07, 2019, 08:45:32 AM
Brian makes an interesting point . In an every increasing hectic world nee Australia. All driving licenses and how they are renewed need to be reviewed imo. We have Elderly that are not being tested properly and given a lot of leeway . Up our way (blue mountains ) every Sunday you have to be conscious  of the “GoGet” drivers who drive twice a year and one of them  is a 140km road trip through the mountains. Not to mention the majority of drivers who seem to be oblivious of anything other than the road in front .

Bring on towing licenses but also a raft of ability testing for all drivers
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: weeds on July 07, 2019, 09:23:02 AM
Storm in a tea cup...the authorities won’t make any big changes.

It’d be good to see more resources out there educating instead of the few that look for the smallest thing to issue a fine.

I do a lot of miles for work, probably more than I do holidaying....I mostly see caravaners just getting on with, sure you come across a slow one or a poorly set up one but the majority look fine to me.

On my last work drive from Brisbane ya Parkes i observed/experienced three eye opening events two were to do with trucks and one that kinda popped up and I thought this is going to be interesting (me overtaking a B Double and the bus ahead throws his indicator on and starts to brake). I was towing.

If everybody was more accepting, slowed down, more considerate...we’d all get along.

Oh, doubt we will every tow a van......


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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Pottsy on July 07, 2019, 09:59:22 AM
Cons....... nanny states............. Fines............. Over regulation.

Pros.........nanny states.............Fines...............Over regulation..............less idiots maybe!
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: edz on July 07, 2019, 10:39:35 AM
Towing .... Might pay to have a watch of this ..    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swUDFWQ5QhI
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: austastar on July 07, 2019, 11:57:30 AM
Hi,
   It does make you wonder about why they do it.
Cheers

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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: KeithB on July 07, 2019, 12:16:26 PM
Towing .... Might pay to have a watch of this ..    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swUDFWQ5QhI

I just watched it to Edz and it made a lot of sense to restate the obvious. It's a shame that he did not say anything about the stability of these heavy rigs.
When I was a lad, the rule was that the laden weight of the trailer should not exceed the unladen weight of the tow vehicle. I was a good rule too. But it seems to have gone by the board.

Keith
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: weeds on July 07, 2019, 08:30:41 PM
Good summary by old mate......even if he was hard to watch along with a bit of a gee up here and there.

All the more reason why we sold our camper trailer and are now set up to live out of the car.......last weigh bridge ticket had us well under.

although when the kids were camping with us towing suited and at times I knew  I was over and that’s towing less than 2T. But at I could consider things as I actually went over a weight bridge.


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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: prodigyrf on July 08, 2019, 02:05:23 AM
Bahahahahaha, now that is the quote of the year

So all the folks on towing forums like this one are here because they know it all are they? Hands up those here who believe they need a special towing licence to be safe on the roads? Come on don't be shy as you know you're a menace on the roads without it.  ;)
Sorry but in my travels I just don't see all menaces out there towing that you see in the mirror  :cheers: 
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: CTL on July 08, 2019, 07:52:14 AM
So all the folks on towing forums like this one are here because they know it all are they? Hands up those here who believe they need a special towing licence to be safe on the roads? Come on don't be shy as you know you're a menace on the roads without it.  ;)
Sorry but in my travels I just don't see all menaces out there towing that you see in the mirror  :cheers:

Haha, you make a silly statement, I laugh at it and then you try to defend it.  C’mon  :-*
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: weeds on July 08, 2019, 08:13:36 AM
So all the folks on towing forums like this one are here because they know it all are they? Hands up those here who believe they need a special towing licence to be safe on the roads? Come on don't be shy as you know you're a menace on the roads without it.  ;)
Sorry but in my travels I just don't see all menaces out there towing that you see in the mirror  :cheers:

Totally agree.......

- if it became law (which I doubt it would) I would obviously do the test and hope I pass

- do I believe I need one, no, as I reckon I have enough knowledge and experience to continue on

- if they bring in a new law it would probably apply to new license owners only just like any changes that have all ready happened over the years.

normally a new comer to forums that’s looking for advice often do get overwhelmed by the main contributors, hopefully they do log back in and read some and decipher what good advice and what to ignore.


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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on July 08, 2019, 08:25:46 AM
I got pulled up 8 years ago now and put off the road, they were really good to me, could had been fined $1500 and instant loss of licence for 12 months, Now I run silent and run legal. Craig
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bird on July 08, 2019, 11:07:26 AM
Hands up who thinks anyone needs a license to drive on the roads... With the Shit drivers we have now, its ****in pointless to have any license...
Even all the trucks and couriers around here now are all called Ramjeet and watching them try and reverse a 10 pallet rigid into the place over the road that you can drive a 14 pallet rigid into forward and turn around on site - none of them have done a genuine test
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Fizzie on July 09, 2019, 08:05:53 AM
I got pulled up 8 years ago now and put off the road, they were really good to me, could had been fined $1500 and instant loss of licence for 12 months, Now I run silent and run legal. Craig

What'd you get done for, Craig ???
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Redback on July 09, 2019, 03:48:19 PM
So all the folks on towing forums like this one are here because they know it all are they? Hands up those here who believe they need a special towing licence to be safe on the roads? Come on don't be shy as you know you're a menace on the roads without it.  ;)
Sorry but in my travels I just don't see all menaces out there towing that you see in the mirror  :cheers:

Me I think you do, if you think that by the time you can afford a car and caravan combination of 7,000kg you have the knowledge on how to tow, then you are very naive, just because you have drive a motor vehicle for a long period of time doesn't mean you actually know how to tow anything, regardless of what you're towing.

I have seen a lot of caravanners on the road that should not be on the road at all towing great big blocks of flats and have absolutely no clue what they are doing, that becomes obvious as soon as they attempt to reverse that great big monstrosity, if you can't reverse what you're towing you shouldn't be towing, period, most people can't tow or reverse a flamin box trailer.

Baz.



 
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bird on July 09, 2019, 04:25:33 PM
Quote from: Redback
I have seen a lot of caravanners on the road that should not be on the road at all towing great big blocks of flats and have

The total wrong car for the job. I've seen Xtrails towing things that would look wrong behind an F650...
then there was maces' mate with his Spree 5th wheeler behind a colorado that should have been behind a Dodge Ram! pic's have gone, but the words say it all
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26576.0
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Kangaron on July 09, 2019, 05:18:31 PM
  most people can't tow or reverse a flamin box trailer.

Baz.

Was at a transfer station [tip] at a very country venue last weekend, I had a 10 x 5 tandem, 3' cage, loaded to the hilt.
When I got there this bloke had a few branches and bags on a 6x4 box, trying to back it in, wife outside trying to guide him in.

I backed in while my wife unloaded by herself [no physical stuff allowed for me atm]

Then took off past him, they had given up and were carrying stuff to the big bins. Left parked in the middle of the yard, cars and trailers banked up.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: rockrat on July 09, 2019, 07:16:04 PM
Was at a transfer station [tip] at a very country venue last weekend, I had a 10 x 5 tandem, 3' cage, loaded to the hilt.
When I got there this bloke had a few branches and bags on a 6x4 box, trying to back it in, wife outside trying to guide him in.

I backed in while my wife unloaded by herself [no physical stuff allowed for me atm]

Then took off past him, they had given up and were carrying stuff to the big bins. Left parked in the middle of the yard, cars and trailers banked up.
I’ve been towing boats, campers and box trailers for well over 10 years but still can’t reverse for crap. My father in law is an ex-truckie and can back anything anywhere.  But when he is driving on the highway in his ute he drives so close to the car, truck, whatever in front, I pray to a god i don’t believe in that it isn’t the last thing I see! How he is still alive is pure luck but dare say something and you get a mouth full.


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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on July 10, 2019, 06:46:52 AM
Hi Fizzie, I had been towing my 8m boat on a triaxle trailer from home to Tin Can Bay about 1,5 hour run at 50kph behind my 3,2lt diesel Narvara dualcab for around 6 to  7 years no worries, got pulled up,  put the boat and trailer on the scales she went 4,1ton,  tug tow limit 1,8ton,  I wonder why they were nice to me, Them days rules never bothered me, I was a farmer towed heaver loads around the farm every day, After that enlightenment to the real world I only run legal now, Hence the small van and 5m tinny, Craig 
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: chester ver2.0 on July 10, 2019, 08:41:29 AM
I’ve been towing boats, campers and box trailers for well over 10 years but still can’t reverse for crap. My father in law is an ex-truckie and can back anything anywhere.  But when he is driving on the highway in his ute he drives so close to the car, truck, whatever in front, I pray to a god i don’t believe in that it isn’t the last thing I see! How he is still alive is pure luck but dare say something and you get a mouth full.


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it is the smaller trailers i find that actually get you. My Goldstream was far easier to reverse than when the boat is in the water and i am trying to back the trailer down the ramp empty. I think it is because the boat trailer is so narrow you cannot see it until it is out the side then you have already stuffed it.
Goldstream = this guy must be a truckie
Boat = How many has he had and should be be driving
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Pete79 on July 10, 2019, 09:28:00 AM
My father in law is an ex-truckie and can back anything anywhere.  But when he is driving on the highway in his ute he drives so close to the car, truck, whatever in front, I pray to a god i don’t believe in that it isn’t the last thing I see! How he is still alive is pure luck but dare say something and you get a mouth full.

I didn't know you married my sister.........  >:D
Dad can tell you how many spots there are on the cow in the second paddock off the road, but can't see a car ahead slowing with it's indicator on to turn off into a driveway......

I learnt to reverse by having to weave an 8m long surf boat into the packed gear shed with a 1950s tractor 3 times a week for about 6 years.
Then refined the art when I built my little camping trailer, at under 2m from hitch to axle it could be described as 'twitchy' to reverse......  ;D
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Hewy54 on July 10, 2019, 09:51:36 AM
One of the best reversing efforts I have seen.
Years ago I used to run school music tours. We chartered a 46 seater coach and put an 8x6 trailer on the back for the music gear.
The driver used to reverse park the coach and trailer when we were in some of the tight spots in caravan parks or on the Gold Coast.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: prodigyrf on July 10, 2019, 09:44:14 PM
Us old hands who had no ATMS GCMs or whatever get a free pass whereas all you whippersnapper worryworts nanny staters and snowflakes need to pass the new test  :police:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN_AxxHFRU0
Sledgehammer to crack a walnut. It's not caravanners I see speeding tailgating and overtaking stupidly or filling our nightly news with road crashes.

PS: Saw a report where they reckon there's around 150,000 caravans on OZ roads at any one time so you work it out.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: weeds on July 11, 2019, 08:34:55 AM


PS: Saw a report where they reckon there's around 150,000 caravans on OZ roads at any one time so you work it out.

I reckon there was 150,000 caravans parked up last night at the Gin Gin free camp.

And the Calliope River Rest area was Max’d out as there was a good 1/2 dozen or so vans parked up at the turn off.


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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Redback on July 11, 2019, 03:13:23 PM
I believe that the reason no one wants to have to sit a test to be allowed to tow is because they think they will fail, because to pass your articulated licence you must be able to reverse the combination prime mover and trailer, can't reverse, you fail, lessons aren't cheap either.

When I did my test I had to reverse around two corners and also around parked cars in the street where the test was and I also had to keep the trailer within a certain distance from the kerb, no more than one metre out from the kerb and not less than 30cm from the kerb, both while going around the corner and along the street.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bird on July 11, 2019, 03:33:44 PM
I believe that the reason no one wants to have to sit a test to be allowed to tow is because they think they will fail, because to pass your articulated licence you must be able to reverse the combination prime mover and trailer, can't reverse, you fail, lessons aren't cheap either.

When I did my test I had to reverse around two corners and also around parked cars in the street where the test was and I also had to keep the trailer within a certain distance from the kerb, no more than one metre out from the kerb and not less than 30cm from the kerb, both while going around the corner and along the street.
same, but I did mine around 5 Dock in a 1418 Benz LOL!
Would have been easier back round Miranda with wider streets :(
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Rodt on July 12, 2019, 05:11:48 AM
I believe that the reason no one wants to have to sit a test to be allowed to tow is because they think they will fail, because to pass your articulated licence you must be able to reverse the combination prime mover and trailer, can't reverse, you fail, lessons aren't cheap either.


I reckon you are right. A lot of discussion on different forums in regards to a caravan towing licence and interestingly enough there are always a number that talk about being able to reverse the van etc which then turns into rants about how bad everyone else is. I laugh at these though because I wonder how many caravan accidents are caused by reversing (or not being able to) into a park spot  ??? 

Most of the aggravation would be solved if people were being more courteous and just take a chill pill. I drive my van at 100km whee I can but on hills or on sharper corners this isn't always possible and the other week while towing at 100 I had a guy in a big cruiser with a big offroad van overtake me and disappear into the distance. I saw him later in the day setting up the park we were staying at when we arrived so he probably saved himself 15mins.

No licence or training course is going to fix attitude or behaviour on the road unfortunately 
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: weeds on July 12, 2019, 06:23:14 AM
Just thinking, if there was a test I’d be more likely to pass the towing part and fail the operation of the tug.


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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bird on July 12, 2019, 04:35:41 PM
Quote from: Rodt
because I wonder how many caravan accidents are caused by reversing (or not being able to) into a park spot  ??? 
There are threads on many forums now about caravan parks that wont let you - they park the trailer up for you! Thats trust in old farks reversing for ya
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: GeoffA on July 12, 2019, 05:47:07 PM
There are threads on many forums now about caravan parks that wont let you - they park the trailer up for you! Thats trust in old farks reversing for ya

I'd leave....
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Rumpig on July 12, 2019, 06:19:15 PM
There are threads on many forums now about caravan parks that wont let you - they park the trailer up for you! Thats trust in old farks reversing for ya
the Big 4 at Hastings Point has a tractor that parks your camper or caravan for you...I choose to back the camper in myself years back when we stayed there, was a very tight turn to get it into our site though, almost wished i’d left it to the tractor...and that’s coming from somebody that backed trailers daily onto jobsites at work.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: rags on July 12, 2019, 08:59:01 PM
We were once parked up in a van park when we watch a couple pull up with the van and proceed to get out and let the park operator hope in and take control, and proceed to reverse the van onto site.

I got talking to van owner later where he told me how he has driven trucks all his life and was a current owner driver of a semi trailer. It prompted me to ask why he let the park operator park the van.

His reply was gold,  which went along the lines of, “ why the heck would I try and park it onsite with the wife barking orders at me and the resulting argument. It is easier to let someone else do it for you and you can relax with the first beer in hand and watch”
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Brij on July 12, 2019, 09:51:21 PM
I believe that the reason no one wants to have to sit a test to be allowed to tow is because they think they will fail, because to pass your articulated licence you must be able to reverse the combination prime mover and trailer, can't reverse, you fail, lessons aren't cheap either.

When I did my test I had to reverse around two corners and also around parked cars in the street where the test was and I also had to keep the trailer within a certain distance from the kerb, no more than one metre out from the kerb and not less than 30cm from the kerb, both while going around the corner and along the street.

Easier to pass the reversing component of the B double test. Just have to keep it straight for about 30m. That was about 10 years ago, with a highly reputable company, not a fly by night crowd licencing new Australians.

So now I have my BD ticket I must be at the pinnacle of trailer towing skill level :D. Definitely not.!!
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Rumpig on July 13, 2019, 07:49:01 AM
We were once parked up in a van park when we watch a couple pull up with the van and proceed to get out and let the park operator hope in and take control, and proceed to reverse the van onto site.

I got talking to van owner later where he told me how he has driven trucks all his life and was a current owner driver of a semi trailer. It prompted me to ask why he let the park operator park the van.

His reply was gold,  which went along the lines of, “ why the heck would I try and park it onsite with the wife barking orders at me and the resulting argument. It is easier to let someone else do it for you and you can relax with the first beer in hand and watch”
i get my 16 year old daughter to help if needed as my extra set of eyes over the misses, atleast the daughter has a clue...lol
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: gronk on July 13, 2019, 08:26:08 AM
I see the occasional "wife" assisted backing of a van at some campsites.....I love watching them......but I've told my wife if she ever gets out of the car and tries the same, I'll drive off and leave her !!    ;D
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Steffo1 on July 13, 2019, 11:22:49 AM
Bloke I know upgraded his work ute/tug. This has a reversing camera. He found it useful so installed a rear camera on his wobbly box as well. His good wife was always trying to be his "Eyes and Advisor", without much success. He has not told her about the cameras so she still runs around, flapping her arms while he hitches up or parks the van up.
He does make a point of thanking her and saying how easy she makes it. ;D
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Harbourmaster on July 14, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
Seen a few people get into trouble with vans on the forecourt of the servo I had for over 20 years. But main point I can see for a, in my opinion, truck license to tow any thing is to learn about weights and securing loads. My two bobs worth
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Steffo1 on July 15, 2019, 02:27:24 PM
I would still like to have an automotive engineer or similar explain to me the vehicle physics that limit the tow ball weight on my '93 1HZ Diesel Tojo 'tilly to 110 kg!
That's less than a Rav4 which is 140kg. 
Toyota Australia were no help.
Qld government transport engineers were very sympathetic (and very surprised at the fact) but have no authority to change the weight.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: #jonesy on July 15, 2019, 04:00:45 PM
No a definitive answer but maybe distance from rear axle to ball is much shorter on RAV4 and leverage effect.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Steffo1 on July 15, 2019, 04:14:33 PM
The exact same vehicle with the '96 release was 250kg!!!
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: weeds on July 15, 2019, 04:19:44 PM
The exact same vehicle with the '96 release was 250kg!!!

What max. Towing on the tojo?


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Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Steffo1 on July 15, 2019, 04:51:47 PM
What max. Towing on the tojo?


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Braked capacity 3500 kg.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Fizzie on July 27, 2019, 01:16:17 PM
Not related to Oz Towing Laws I know, but just saw this: https://www.motor1.com/news/178276/whipping-trailer-toss-ford-excursion/ (https://www.motor1.com/news/178276/whipping-trailer-toss-ford-excursion/), & thought I'd share :o

They did speculate that it was due to overload, too much weight too far back & too fast, so seems like a good place to post it!

What got me though (keep watching after the truckie gets out) was the other cars just driving past, 20 seconds after it's all happened ??? :'(
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: KeithB on July 27, 2019, 03:28:15 PM
A similar Sprinter Select caravan I looked up has a tare weight of 3027kg with a cargo weight of 1,267kg. The unladen ball weight is 303kg.
The 2019 Ford Explorer seems to have a maximum towing weight of 2,268kg and a maximum ball weight with a WDH of 227kg.
So the entire rig was overloaded before the groceries went in. Then we have God knows how much weight stored down the rear end of the caravan, probably to stop the bum sagging on the tow.
He was passing a semi doing around 110kph. No wonder the tail wanted to wag the dog.
Keith
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bigfish on July 27, 2019, 04:15:08 PM
A similar Sprinter Select caravan I looked up has a tare weight of 3027kg with a cargo weight of 1,267kg. The unladen ball weight is 303kg.
The 2019 Ford Explorer seems to have a maximum towing weight of 2,268kg and a maximum ball weight with a WDH of 227kg.
So the entire rig was overloaded before the groceries went in. Then we have God knows how much weight stored down the rear end of the caravan, probably to stop the bum sagging on the tow.
He was passing a semi doing around 110kph. No wonder the tail wanted to wag the dog.
Keith
The turbulence would have been terrific.    Just another reason I,ll never own a wobbly box.  Hope the poor buggers got out of it alright.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Fizzie on July 27, 2019, 04:47:01 PM
A similar Sprinter Select caravan I looked up has a tare weight of 3027kg with a cargo weight of 1,267kg. The unladen ball weight is 303kg.
The 2019 Ford Explorer seems to have a maximum towing weight of 2,268kg and a maximum ball weight with a WDH of 227kg.
So the entire rig was overloaded before the groceries went in. Then we have God knows how much weight stored down the rear end of the caravan, probably to stop the bum sagging on the tow.
He was passing a semi doing around 110kph. No wonder the tail wanted to wag the dog.
Keith

Thanks for those figures Keith - so it would appear he was 800kg over before putting anything inside!!!  :o

& pausing the video as they passed the semi, it looks like they've got a washing machine (& other stuff) hanging off the back!!! ???

Hope the poor buggers got out of it alright.

The article did say that apparently everyone was OK ???

But they were definitely lucky in more ways than one - if it had been about 20 sec's earlier, there looked to be about a 50' drop at the side of the road ...
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Rumpig on July 27, 2019, 04:57:20 PM
choose the right rig to suit what you tow and towing a van isn't a big deal, especially if the van is set up correctly.....i overtook plenty of trucks and cars without issue with me sitting on 110kph on our recent trip away....choose a vehicle not suitable to towing the van you have and set the van up with big tail weights and that video shows what will happen. There's plenty of people in this country towing big vans with medium sized vehicles, it's a disater waiting to happen IMO.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: jclures on July 28, 2019, 10:48:09 AM
Watching the video the truck was already doing 68mph (109kph) I doubt I would want to overtake, towing a van at that speed.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: moeite on July 28, 2019, 12:39:52 PM
Watching the video the truck was already doing 68mph (109kph) I doubt I would want to overtake, towing a van at that speed.

Me either.
The mindset seems to be - it's bigger so therefore it's slower so therefore I MUST overtake it. I see this sort of behaviour a LOT and it really irritates me that they bust a gut to overtake on a blind bend over a crest with double lines and then promptly slow down as soon as the pull in front of the overtaken vehicle....grrrr....
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: GBC on July 28, 2019, 03:45:28 PM
More a function of craptacular trailer building than tow vehicle. It got out of control all by itself going through the bow wave of air off the truck. The tow car was completely stable for the first couple of oscillations. It would take a pretty long wheelbase tow vehicle to pull that thing back straight.

Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Paddler Ed on July 28, 2019, 04:37:40 PM
A similar Sprinter Select caravan I looked up has a tare weight of 3027kg with a cargo weight of 1,267kg. The unladen ball weight is 303kg.
The 2019 Ford Explorer seems to have a maximum towing weight of 2,268kg and a maximum ball weight with a WDH of 227kg.
So the entire rig was overloaded before the groceries went in. Then we have God knows how much weight stored down the rear end of the caravan, probably to stop the bum sagging on the tow.
He was passing a semi doing around 110kph. No wonder the tail wanted to wag the dog.
Keith

It's (supposed to be) a Ford Excursion, not an Explorer, but I think it's a Ford Expedition - so it's a wagon version of a Ford F150, and has a towing limit of upto 9,000lbs (or just under 4,500kg)
Page 28 in here; https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/brochures/17RV&TT_Ford_Expedition_Sep7.pdf

I would say also add in the down hill run, and the cutting as problems, as that can cause all manner of problems with wind.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: hardroad on July 29, 2019, 08:58:29 AM
I bet the first thing they said was "it was towing beautifully and was very stable before this happened!"
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bird on July 29, 2019, 11:17:02 AM
..
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: prodigyrf on August 05, 2019, 09:59:30 PM
Well we've got a rare local one towing 2.5T if that's a 19'6"Kingdom Kensington as he realises there's a car coming and he tries to turn in too quick but the van's having none of that and it all goes pear shaped from there-
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/south-australian-couple-survive-caravan-rollover-caught-on-video/news-story/cd0161d09e04ffa23dc7758910b70890
Pretty good McHitch or similar as the car rolls and can't lose the van.  He simply got it wrong thinking he had enough space ahead to overtake and then panicked but given he knows he has to get back in his lane pronto there's no thought of hitting the brake manual boost button to straighten up  :'(
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: GBC on August 06, 2019, 05:52:11 AM
Same high front van style with no cutaway, bow wave off the truck hits it and the rot sets in. That van didn’t look to have a bad wheel base with not too much rear overhang but the double pendulum still kicked pretty hard. I’d be interested to know where the weight was and what the tyre pressures were.
Title: Re: A View on Australian Towing Laws
Post by: Bird on October 06, 2019, 07:02:41 PM
This ad just popped up on google.. wonder how much on top ...

With a market leading GVM upgrade of up to 4495 KG these DMW XT200 is the perfect vehicle for tourer or work.
(https://www.dmwindustries.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/67843221_2390674324354955_7919448149364572160_o.jpg)