Post by: Bird on August 21, 2018, 09:41:30 AM
Turdbull wins...
AND DUTTON GOES DOWN
(http://images.theage.com.au/2010/12/09/2086691/600x400_mundine1-600x400.jpg)
Post by: DrewXT on August 21, 2018, 09:48:51 AM
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Post by: Bird on August 21, 2018, 09:55:00 AM
No surprises with that outcomecertainly better the devil....
Post by: tryagain on August 21, 2018, 10:18:07 AM
No surprises with that outcome
You don't call a spill as PM unless you know you have the numbers, having said that with only 7 votes in it with him as the incumbent and Dutton moving to the back bench, I suspect its case of when now not if it happens again with a different result. might be a win for Turnbull but the numbers don't look good for him.
Post by: tryagain on August 21, 2018, 10:31:33 AM
Post by: Bird on August 21, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
Post by: tryagain on August 21, 2018, 11:14:06 AM
Should start a sweep, when will we get a new PM, I call dibs on September 10th.
Just heard of talk of as soon as Thursday for another tilt :o I guess if the writing is on the wall you may as well do it sooner rather than later, no point Turnbill naming a new ministry only for it to all change again shortly afterwards and giving the opposition endless ammunition, there should be at least 7 wanting to suck up to the new boss now that it looks inevitable.
Post by: Bird on August 21, 2018, 11:21:36 AM
Quote from: tryagain
Just heard of talk of as soon as Thursday for another tilt :o I guess if the writing is on the wall you may as well do it sooner rather than later, no point Turnbill naming a new ministry only for it to all change again shortly afterwards and giving the opposition endless ammunition, there should be at least 7 wanting to suck up to the new boss now that it looks inevitable.I would have thought give turnbull more rope to hang himself - hes doing well at it.
but Dutton was never the they for the job
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on August 21, 2018, 11:24:13 AM
I would have thought give turnbull more rope to hang himself - hes doing well at it.
but Dutton was never the one they, or anyone else wanted for the job
Fixed it.
Post by: MattNQ on August 21, 2018, 11:46:20 AM
Post by: Bird on August 21, 2018, 11:48:09 AM
Quote from: MattNQ
The talent pool in modern politics is very, very shallow...(http://www.livescience.com/images/i/000/025/737/original/drought-weather.jpg)
Post by: Hookie on August 21, 2018, 05:50:10 PM
When I moved to the US Howard was prime minister, then I came back to Turnbull. I don't even know which side I like less anymore.
Post by: Rumpig on August 21, 2018, 05:57:41 PM
Post by: Troopy greg on August 21, 2018, 06:08:59 PM
Post by: gronk on August 21, 2018, 06:13:44 PM
There will be no stability in the government whilst the likes of that muppet Abbott are in the background knifing Turnbull in the back in revenge. If only these clowns could put in the same effortinto improving the country as they do on stabbing each other in the back, we as a nation might improve instead of going backwards.
I stopped thinking a long time ago that the prime minister did anything for the good of the country. Especially for Turnbull, who is VERY rich, and is only doing it for his ego.
The idea that they or any political party does what we the public want is just a dream.. When did the public say to spend billions on foreign aid, especially when a lot of it goes to countries that don't need it ?
When was the last time the public had a say in the immigration debacle ??
Some will say WE gave them the authority by voting them in.....but those 2 issues ( among many more ) were/are never included in their election "promises"..
Post by: glenm64 on August 21, 2018, 06:31:28 PM
All he has to do is keep his mouth shut and let the Libs tear themselves apart.
Then we'll see how long it takes for Labor to do the same.
They all must be goldfish.
Cheers Glen
Post by: Bigfish on August 21, 2018, 06:45:38 PM
OPINION
MAKE no mistake — the people paid a pretty penny to sit in Canberra don’t care about you.
The past decade of infuriating infighting, turmoil and civil war in both the Labor and Liberal parties ranks demonstrates that pretty clearly.
Cost of living, healthcare, decent education, employment opportunities and the stability of the economy … oh, they talk a lot about these issues, the things that keep you up at night.
But the reality is, there’s no time to figure out a meaningful solution to the many problems this country faces when they’re preoccupied with destroying each other.
All these politicians really care about is clinging to power at any cost — and usually at your expense.
Malcolm Turnbull retained the leadership of the Liberal Party against a challenge by Peter Dutton,
Former PM Tony Abbott has led a campaign of destabilisation since losing the top job.
Eleven years. That’s how long it’s been since a sitting prime minister was able to finish a full term, from election to election, when John Howard lost to Kevin Rudd.
Since then, the Australian public has been subjected to a circus of self-interested egomaniacs letting their born-to-rule personality disorders run wild.
There was Rudd versus Gillard, then Gillard versus Rudd. We had Turnbull versus Abbott, and now Dutton versus Turnbull.
The wrecking, the undermining, the sniping, the constant attacks on each other — it’s sickening. They’re no better than a bunch of brawling schoolyard children.
And if you think today’s vote in the party room, which Turnbull narrowly won, puts this latest furore to rest, I’m sorry to disappoint you.
There’s already speculation about when the next challenge will take place.
The current spate of civil wars began when Julia Gillard knifed Kevin Rudd.
It’s ridiculous. Is it any wonder a growing number of Aussies are totally fed up with the two major parties?
The next time anyone in the government, or indeed the opposition, wonders why the voter base is moving towards smaller parties or independents, they should take a good look at themselves.
When they fight and try to destroy each other, we all lost.
The war Canberra should be waging is on the skyrocketing cost of living a decent life. It should be on the fact that our wages have barely increased in years.
They should target affordable housing, jobs for your kids, health services and our security.
Aussies don’t care who’s running the show, as long as they get something done. And frankly, they’re failing miserably.
Instead of leading, the moment the government of the day gets a whiff of voter dissatisfaction, they panic and run for the party room in a bid to turf out the person in charge for a new one.
What does this solve? It’s the political equivalent of papering over some deep foundation cracks. Or, the better analogy is slapping some lipstick on a pig.
The jig is up. We see the pig and its cheap make-up. And we’re bloody tired of it.
Post by: rockrat on August 21, 2018, 07:07:45 PM
Post by: Pete79 on August 21, 2018, 07:12:41 PM
When you have journalists going around writing truths like that it’s pretty clear why some in Canberra only want to speak to their friends at Fox/Sky.
Post by: plusnq on August 21, 2018, 07:22:42 PM
I’d love Turnbull to give a big stuff you to Abbott and the rest of the libs by calling a snap election. The look on the faces of some of the pollies holding marginal seats would be priceless.
Sadly we would still have Abbott. I don’t know why he bothers sometimes.
Post by: GeoffA on August 21, 2018, 08:04:08 PM
Post by: Pete79 on August 21, 2018, 08:18:18 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180821/a40b0bc59707c9c589ecd6f8ed42e15f.png)
Post by: Nomad on August 21, 2018, 08:25:20 PM
Whether is local, state or federal there all a pack of peanuts.
Our local council (Noosa) are the biggest pack of Numpty pocket liners I have ever seen. All of them unemployable in private business, not that this is essential but it kind of proves the ability of most people, but desperately hanging on to their $120k positions. I used to think bring on the next election but really who ****ing cares if the current ones get voted out you just get more d^ickheads in.
We really need to get rid of at least one level of government, state seems to make sense, to get the cost of running this great country down to levels where we dont all pay above 50% tax for nothing. I would happily pay 50% tax if I thought we were getting value for our money but...............well thats never going to happen.
If you dont think your paying 50% tax well............just look at the numbers.
Post by: briann532 on August 21, 2018, 09:18:49 PM
(https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39742711_10156860309242708_5198161114046660608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=0e2d468404e958b4153d60831e9d868c&oe=5BFAB7ED)
LOL
;D ;D ;D
Post by: Snow on August 22, 2018, 07:20:01 AM
Oh look!! A political thread.....how lovely..... :cup: :cup:Don’t poke the bear. This thread will vapourise if it even slightly polarises into mayhem. >:D
Post by: Fizzie on August 22, 2018, 08:01:31 AM
Whether is local, state or federal there all a pack of peanuts.
Our local council (Noosa) are the biggest pack of Numpty pocket liners I have ever seen.
Yep, they've just sacked Ipswich Council as it was decided most of them were just crooks & the Council couldn't work together :police:
Did the same thing to Gold Coast Council back in the late 70's - I was actually working there at the time & the difference between having the Administrator running things & the Councillors coming back was amazing - between Friday & Monday, staff morale just evaporated :'(
So the answer is simple - sack all the Federal pollies & put an Administrator to run the Country for a couple of years! >:D
Hey Liz, Pete - you out there ??? ;D
Post by: Pete79 on August 22, 2018, 08:49:08 AM
Did the same thing to Gold Coast Council back in the late 70's - I was actually working there at the time....So have you still got your white shoes and that free water front apartment?
Or where you not that high up in the developers donations tree?? ;)
Post by: Fizzie on August 22, 2018, 08:57:01 AM
Or where you not that high up in the developers donations tree?? ;)
Mate, I wouldn't have been able to reach the bottom branch with a 5m ladder! :angel:
Was my first job - 5 months temp, walking the streets reading water meters ;D
Post by: shanegtr on August 22, 2018, 11:16:23 AM
Interesting opinion from ABC news site....SPOT ON AS WELL!!!!Spot on. I dont understand why anyone would want to vote for either of the 2 majors (3 if you include the greens) as they are all basically the same, just looking out to win the next election at all costs. I've put them dead last in my voting for the last 10 years Should make a law that stops these pathetic shifts in leadership for the sake of the popular vote - the only shift in power for a PM should be due to death or major sickness/inability to do the job. If your planning to retire then you need to do it at the end of your term and the next leader should be the one doing the election campain so the people know who they are voting for.
OPINION
MAKE no mistake — the people paid a pretty penny to sit in Canberra don’t care about you.
The past decade of infuriating infighting, turmoil and civil war in both the Labor and Liberal parties ranks demonstrates that pretty clearly.
Cost of living, healthcare, decent education, employment opportunities and the stability of the economy … oh, they talk a lot about these issues, the things that keep you up at night.
But the reality is, there’s no time to figure out a meaningful solution to the many problems this country faces when they’re preoccupied with destroying each other.
All these politicians really care about is clinging to power at any cost — and usually at your expense.
Malcolm Turnbull retained the leadership of the Liberal Party against a challenge by Peter Dutton,
Former PM Tony Abbott has led a campaign of destabilisation since losing the top job.
Eleven years. That’s how long it’s been since a sitting prime minister was able to finish a full term, from election to election, when John Howard lost to Kevin Rudd.
Since then, the Australian public has been subjected to a circus of self-interested egomaniacs letting their born-to-rule personality disorders run wild.
There was Rudd versus Gillard, then Gillard versus Rudd. We had Turnbull versus Abbott, and now Dutton versus Turnbull.
The wrecking, the undermining, the sniping, the constant attacks on each other — it’s sickening. They’re no better than a bunch of brawling schoolyard children.
And if you think today’s vote in the party room, which Turnbull narrowly won, puts this latest furore to rest, I’m sorry to disappoint you.
There’s already speculation about when the next challenge will take place.
The current spate of civil wars began when Julia Gillard knifed Kevin Rudd.
It’s ridiculous. Is it any wonder a growing number of Aussies are totally fed up with the two major parties?
The next time anyone in the government, or indeed the opposition, wonders why the voter base is moving towards smaller parties or independents, they should take a good look at themselves.
When they fight and try to destroy each other, we all lost.
The war Canberra should be waging is on the skyrocketing cost of living a decent life. It should be on the fact that our wages have barely increased in years.
They should target affordable housing, jobs for your kids, health services and our security.
Aussies don’t care who’s running the show, as long as they get something done. And frankly, they’re failing miserably.
Instead of leading, the moment the government of the day gets a whiff of voter dissatisfaction, they panic and run for the party room in a bid to turf out the person in charge for a new one.
What does this solve? It’s the political equivalent of papering over some deep foundation cracks. Or, the better analogy is slapping some lipstick on a pig.
The jig is up. We see the pig and its cheap make-up. And we’re bloody tired of it.
Post by: corndog on August 22, 2018, 12:34:21 PM
Post by: macca on August 22, 2018, 12:39:40 PM
Politicians are number 1 on my list of scum of the earth. And that's for ALL parties. In fact I have to think hard to find anyone that comes close.Judges ??
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Post by: corndog on August 22, 2018, 12:43:53 PM
Can only be that they are on the same level of scum as the politicians.
Post by: Bird on August 22, 2018, 12:58:30 PM
Quote from: shanegtr
I dont understand why anyone would want to vote for either of the 2 majors (3 if you include the greens) as they are all basically the same, just looking out to win the next election at all costs.
Never a truer word spoken. The politicians know it and dont give a ****.. as long as they get their perks... and their childcare centers do
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on August 22, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
Judges ??
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Lawyers beat Judges hands down.
Judges have removed themselves so far out of the real world, that they live in a fantasy land.
Post by: Bird on August 22, 2018, 03:03:59 PM
fun watching politics imploding infront of your eyes... sad thinkin these ****stains run the country
Post by: corndog on August 22, 2018, 03:24:07 PM
Post by: Bird on August 22, 2018, 03:29:11 PM
Meanwhile, our farms are drought-ravaged, energy policy in chaos, school performances declining and tensions are rising in parts of the world very relevant to Australia. But our government pollies think their time is better spent bickering, scheming and settling old scores.
The electorate will tell them exactly what they think of their priorities soon enough.
Post by: Bigfish on August 22, 2018, 03:48:24 PM
Post by: JusyApples on August 22, 2018, 03:50:32 PM
It would be very sad to see abbott and dutton in a serious car accident...NOT. Pair of scum suckers who really should never have been born. Along with many more of their cork soaking mates.
WTF
Dumb comment
Post by: Bird on August 22, 2018, 04:09:01 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlFLaO3VsAYmqng.jpg)
Post by: Bigfish on August 22, 2018, 05:11:44 PM
WTF
Dumb comment
Not really mate. I am sick to death of the mindless, egotistical nutters we get who think they can run the country as they see fit. Abbot has been sitting behind the curtain and constantly Shit stirring and causing upset within the party. He had his chance and now like a little school boy he,s sooking. Dutton....I have no time for the clown. He wasn,t much of a copper according to various views I,ve seen on the web 9take that as you will) but his handling of the boat people shows why he is disliked by a large amount of the general population ( check out the polls). I judge a govt by how they look after the poorer in the country. Current mob are sending us down the Shit tube ultra fast. 64 years of age and I cant believe the deadly serious mess our country is in. Car accident...nope I,ll take that back...hang the bloody lot for treason.
Post by: Bird on August 22, 2018, 05:17:17 PM
Quote from: Bigfish
I judge a govt by how they look after the poorer in the country.Gee you must be going back to the 50's LOL!
Post by: JusyApples on August 22, 2018, 05:47:00 PM
Not really mate. I am sick to death of the mindless, egotistical nutters we get who think they can run the country as they see fit. Abbot has been sitting behind the curtain and constantly Shit stirring and causing upset within the party. He had his chance and now like a little school boy he,s sooking. Dutton....I have no time for the clown. He wasn,t much of a copper according to various views I,ve seen on the web 9take that as you will) but his handling of the boat people shows why he is disliked by a large amount of the general population ( check out the polls). I judge a govt by how they look after the poorer in the country. Current mob are sending us down the Shit tube ultra fast. 64 years of age and I cant believe the deadly serious mess our country is in. Car accident...nope I,ll take that back...hang the bloody lot for treason.
That's funny because a majority of the population want to decrease the amount of immigration into the country. When labor opened the borders we had economic refugees coming into the country with no documents, no care for their children taking them on leaky boats across the ocean and we are still paying for it now. Go to Fairfield in Sydney, the cops can't keep up with the influx of work. Look at the Sudanese in Melbourne running riot. So to suggest that the. Border policy is disliked by the majority of the population is a laugh.
People don't like Turnbull for one reason, he's no different to a labor politician in fact he tried to sign up for the labor party years ago. People want a choice between left and right, at the moment the only choice is left and left.
Post by: gronk on August 22, 2018, 08:38:25 PM
People want a choice between left and right, at the moment the only choice is left and left.
Why have a choice of political parties ??
Get rid of political parties and just have politicians ... No need for local government ( do they do anything anyway ?? )
The bloke with the best policy wins ( if everyone votes for him ?? ) Local areas get funding for projects on a need for basis...not for a seat stacking waste of money like now..
May not be a better system than what we have now.....and finding a "straight" politician might be hard ??
Post by: Hookie on August 23, 2018, 05:57:18 AM
Post by: Fizzie on August 23, 2018, 08:21:38 AM
The problem is that the aristocracy is on the rise again. We're no longer being led by the smartest, hardest working, or most courageous, we're being led by their kids and grandkids. Politicians, CEOs, a large portion of the wealthy, aren't there because they earned their place, but because they were born into it. Western democracies all over the world are increasingly stuck under a ruling class who has no idea what it's like to earn your living, it's a cycle we seem to keep going through. Last time it took WW2 to shake things up and give the little guy a chance again, not sure what it's going to be next time or if it will even be in my lifetime.
You got it Hookie :'(
What are the numbers ??? - the wealthiest 1% in the world are worth the same as the bottom 70% or something like that ???
I think you're right with what you said about the aristocracy - I think it's going to finish up with a smallish number of hyper-wealthy people effectively running the world, with the common plebs there just to do what they want. Don't know if anything will shake them up from here in, or if anything does it'll be a full-on, nuclear WW3, so it won't matter much anymore :'(
Post by: tryagain on August 23, 2018, 08:38:32 AM
Post by: Pete79 on August 23, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
I know there’s a lot of stupid people that just vote on their party line no matter how incompetent their local candidate is (eg; Peter Slipper), but surely they can’t be that dumb to re-elect this mob after all of this rubbish that’s just been going on...
Post by: macca on August 23, 2018, 10:06:06 AM
And then we’ll have another PM again early next year....... and ya reckon the other mob are any better?
I know there’s a lot of stupid people that just vote on their party line no matter how incompetent their local candidate is (eg; Peter Slipper), but surely they can’t be that dumb to re-elect this mob after all of this rubbish that’s just been going on...
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Post by: Bird on August 23, 2018, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: macca
...... and ya reckon the other mob are any better?
x every number in history...
I'm sick of prime ministers that are so far out of touch with reality they feel they could walk naked on the sun in a pair of surfer joes.
Also sick of rich prime ministers with no touch with real world and how some people struggle to put food on table, or pay bills... Most of them have so many tax scams going they dont pay Shit.
Im with Bigfish on this 100%
Post by: KeithB on August 23, 2018, 10:22:53 AM
I personally think that we have far too many houses of parliament and far too many politicians per head of population. There just isn't enough talent to go around. And the cream isn't the only thing that floats to the top.
Post by: Bird on August 23, 2018, 10:48:43 AM
Quote
Fairfax Media has confirmed that Treasurer Scott Morrison will contest the leadership.
At this stage, it is unclear if Malcolm Turnbull will step aside to support the effort or stay in the contest himself.
Either way, Morrison's entry would considerably alter the dynamics. It is likely some of Peter Dutton's votes would bleed to the Treasurer.
WOW
I have just moved that Peter Dutton’s eligibility be referred to the High Court. #auspol voting now
Motion defeated 69-68
The motion is defeated – just. 69 beats 68.
Labor tantalised by how close it was.
Post by: Rumpig on August 23, 2018, 11:05:47 AM
Post by: tryagain on August 23, 2018, 11:54:11 AM
And then we’ll have another PM again early next year.
I know there’s a lot of stupid people that just vote on their party line no matter how incompetent their local candidate is (eg; Peter Slipper), but surely they can’t be that dumb to re-elect this mob after all of this rubbish that’s just been going on...
The issue is you generally have to pick the least worst option, and the opposition has done it all before, Shorton was actually one of the main players behind the beginning of the musical chairs prime ministership, the libs are just copying the swap the leader tatic that was originally the NSW labour tatic, then federal Labor and now the libs are having a crack at it as well.
Post by: Gazza00 on August 23, 2018, 12:17:45 PM
There’s been more takeovers and party changes than a lot of the busted arse third world countries
They only difference here ( unfortunately) is that they don’t shoot the useless pricks that the next mob replace
Post by: PWE on August 23, 2018, 12:33:47 PM
I cannot see Scott in a serious light because he remind me of Paul from Spin City.
At least no-one is burning tyres or violently protesting, wait Melbourne will probably after the vote winner is identified. ;D
Post by: Rumpig on August 23, 2018, 01:05:13 PM
Post by: Bird on August 23, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
At best it appears as if we won’t know who is running the country till after midday tomorrow, Turnbull is waiting for the letter to arrive that shows the majority of his party don’t support him (hasn’t happened yet)...then if he gets it he’ll call a meeting for tomorrow....let the circus continue(https://thumbs.imagekind.com/40075_650/Hear-no-Evil-See-no-Evil-Speak-no-Evil_art.jpg)
Post by: Pete79 on August 23, 2018, 02:26:05 PM
...... and ya reckon the other mob are any better?No, not at all.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Our whole political system is seriously f**** up right now, and has been since Howard got punted.
My issue is the sheeple that vote on party lines no matter what.
Personally I haven’t voted for a specific party in over 20 years. I vote for the best local candidate on my local ticket.
Who is going to represent my needs and be my voice in that circus we call parliament?
Right now the answer is no one.
At the moment I could not consciously tick a LNP or ALP on any ballot paper. Unfortunately that means my vote is pointless because dumb people will always vote along their party lines regardless of how incompetent the candidate is and in doing so they are sending the message to all politicians that what is happening right now is just fine....
Post by: Bird on August 23, 2018, 02:26:31 PM
Turnbull has called Peter Dutton's citizenship question "very significant" and says the Solicitor-General's advice, to be delivered to the government on Friday morning, must be a consideration in the contest.
Post by: Rumpig on August 23, 2018, 02:55:04 PM
funny:to me it appears as if Turnbull is running the guy down big time, making it that if he does become leader then he’ll have a massive job infront of him to rebuild his name and the party they have ripped apart. Can’t blame Turnbull for doing that after he put several million dollars of his own coin into propping up the Libs campaign at the last election, only to get this now happen. Good on Turnbull for making people put thier names down on paper also if they want him gone, it’s easy to be a faceless back stabber, make them own thier decisions in public I say.
Turnbull has called Peter Dutton's citizenship question "very significant" and says the Solicitor-General's advice, to be delivered to the government on Friday morning, must be a consideration in the contest.
Post by: doc evil on August 23, 2018, 03:33:02 PM
No, not at all.
Our whole political system is seriously f**** up right now, and has been since Howard got punted.
My issue is the sheeple that vote on party lines no matter what.
Personally I haven’t voted for a specific party in over 20 years. I vote for the best local candidate on my local ticket.
Who is going to represent my needs and be my voice in that circus we call parliament?
Right now the answer is no one.
At the moment I could not consciously tick a LNP or ALP on any ballot paper. Unfortunately that means my vote is pointless because dumb people will always vote along their party lines regardless of how incompetent the candidate is and in doing so they are sending the message to all politicians that what is happening right now is just fine....
Yep. Gotta agree there........90% of the sheeple have no idea on the basics of government and therefore cannot make an informed choice except for who is going to give them the bigger handout.........and the powers that be know that and get the media to diddle the info dished out...........
Post by: krisandkev on August 23, 2018, 03:34:03 PM
No, not at all.
Our whole political system is seriously f**** up right now, and has been since Howard got punted.
My issue is the sheeple that vote on party lines no matter what.
Personally I haven’t voted for a specific party in over 20 years. I vote for the best local candidate on my local ticket.
Who is going to represent my needs and be my voice in that circus we call parliament?
Right now the answer is no one.
At the moment I could not consciously tick a LNP or ALP on any ballot paper. Unfortunately that means my vote is pointless because dumb people will always vote along their party lines regardless of how incompetent the candidate is and in doing so they are sending the message to all politicians that what is happening right now is just fine....
Same here. I am non party person and have tried to vote as I see, who is the best of a sad bunch. No way can I vote for the main parties. But I am worried about the change of gov, which will happen in a land slide. Being self funded I know I will be hit hard. It is already in their policy. But it all is so sad. I wish there was a way that we could sack them all and have all fresh candiates. But I know that is impossible. But how about first of ban all political donations (incudes by unions), direct or indirect, and have election funding provided by us, with limits. Kevin
Post by: Bunyip on August 23, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
The issue stems from the 24 hour news cycle and social media.
No longer can a politician have a long term view on anything, let alone anything meaningful. Everything is geared for the 7 second grab on the news, and opinions change as the social media frenzy spins up. It is arguable that Keating and Howard were the last PM's that had any real vision past the next election (or party room spill).
There appears to be such partisanship now that no matter what the current government puts in place, the future ones will try to rip out just because they didn't do it themselves. Doesn't matter the merits of it. NBN is the perfect example of watering down an excellent initiative. When they ran telephone cables all over the country decades ago, everyone thought that would be a waste of money, now a majority of the NBN will be a bottleneck in the not to distant future and will have to be redone.
This affects all politicians equally, no matter of what party (or independent) they belong to. My main issue is that I cannot see it getting any better in the future, and I certainly have no ideas on a solution.
Post by: krisandkev on August 23, 2018, 04:27:11 PM
IN MY OPINION
The issue stems from the 24 hour news cycle and social media.
:cup: :cup:
Plus so many dam stupid polls. Kevin
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 23, 2018, 04:37:38 PM
Right slap bang on top of his vegemite sangers.
Post by: Inland_Sailor on August 23, 2018, 04:38:55 PM
This type of outcome occurred with the ALP/DLP split in the 50's and lead to decades of Liberal Govt and probably would see the same thing happen with the right wing parties.
Post by: aussie9 on August 23, 2018, 04:44:13 PM
It's funny because I thought they were elected to run the Country!
I hope they all give part of their pay back.
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
Post by: Bunyip on August 23, 2018, 04:53:33 PM
Truly a circus
Post by: edz on August 23, 2018, 05:14:09 PM
Post by: JusyApples on August 23, 2018, 06:58:05 PM
No, not at all.
Our whole political system is seriously f**** up right now, and has been since Howard got punted.
My issue is the sheeple that vote on party lines no matter what.
Personally I haven’t voted for a specific party in over 20 years. I vote for the best local candidate on my local ticket.
Who is going to represent my needs and be my voice in that circus we call parliament?
Right now the answer is no one.
At the moment I could not consciously tick a LNP or ALP on any ballot paper. Unfortunately that means my vote is pointless because dumb people will always vote along their party lines regardless of how incompetent the candidate is and in doing so they are sending the message to all politicians that what is happening right now is just fine....
The problem is you are still voting for a major party because that's where your preferences flow
Post by: rockrat on August 23, 2018, 07:12:56 PM
Post by: Bad Scott on August 23, 2018, 07:27:36 PM
Oh look!! A political thread.....how lovely..... :cup: :cup:(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180823/144f9ec2b4a0eb689483dadd6e354e53.png)
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Post by: Isuzumu on August 23, 2018, 07:58:18 PM
If I was Turnbull, I'd be dropping a nice big smelly "Stanley Steamer" in Dutton's lunch box before I left.Sorry Kev, but if I was Dutton I would go over and grab Turnbal by the balls ops sorry don't think he has any and tell him that stop being a faggot and piss off cause most of us are feed up with you lefty/greeny attitude.
Right slap bang on top of his vegemite sangers.
Post by: JusyApples on August 23, 2018, 08:56:04 PM
Sorry Kev, but if I was Dutton I would go over and grab Turnbal by the balls ops sorry don't think he has any and tell him that stop being a faggot and piss off cause most of us are feed up with you lefty/greeny attitude.
He did ask graham Richardson to join the labor party
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Post by: GeoffA on August 23, 2018, 09:02:03 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180823/144f9ec2b4a0eb689483dadd6e354e53.png)
Envelopes are so 20th century....
FWIW, I was being facetious in my earlier post. Political threads have a history of bringing out the worst in some of us.
Hoping this one doesn't go the same way....
:cheers:
Post by: Pete79 on August 23, 2018, 09:11:55 PM
Sorry Kev, but if I was Dutton I would go over and grab Turnbal by the balls ops sorry don't think he has any and tell him that stop being a faggot and piss off cause most of us are feed up with you lefty/greeny attitude.The only problem is, it’s a fact that the majority of Australians voted for Turnbull and his lefty greeny policies. Not Dutton or Abbott.
Turnbull made his positions very clear before he rolled Abbott. He continued with that stance into the next election, which he won.
But if Abbott, Dutton and all of the other backstabbers think they know better then the majority of Australians, then they are about to get a long over due reality check.
I don’t disagree with one of the earlier comments on here about conservatives wanting a right wing candidate to vote for. That’s fair enough, every democracy needs all sorts of different voices.
There’s no doubt the voices on the far right have a lot of radio shock jocks and “news” networks for them to shout their opinions at us.
Just don’t get all sookie when your hard right stance and house wrecking tactics get those free thinkers in the middle offside and move their votes elsewhere.
Post by: Moxley on August 23, 2018, 10:17:12 PM
The only problem is, it’s a fact that the majority of Australians voted for Turnbull and his lefty greeny policies. Not Dutton or Abbott.
Turnbull made his positions very clear before he rolled Abbott. He continued with that stance into the next election, which he won.
But if Abbott, Dutton and all of the other backstabbers think they know better then the majority of Australians, then they are about to get a long over due reality check.
I don’t disagree with one of the earlier comments on here about conservatives wanting a right wing candidate to vote for. That’s fair enough, every democracy needs all sorts of different voices.
There’s no doubt the voices on the far right have a lot of radio shock jocks and “news” networks for them to shout their opinions at us.
Just don’t get all sookie when your hard right stance and house wrecking tactics get those free thinkers in the middle offside and move their votes elsewhere.
That’s makes a lot of sense.
It’ll be interesting to see if and how long the Liberal Party lasts.
If they are made up of 48 moderates. Then if you combine that with the ALP and the Greens, that seems to be a majority versus just 35 on the other side, perhaps with Katter too.
Post by: McGirr on August 23, 2018, 11:46:55 PM
Prime Minster McGirr
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on August 24, 2018, 01:14:27 AM
Stuff it I am going to join in also. I just need to get my policies in order. ;D ;DHave you been buying Insurance again?
Prime Minster McGirr
Post by: prodigyrf on August 24, 2018, 01:40:46 AM
Who's right remains to be seen but one thing's for sure wind and solar without despatchability won't cut it and you can see that with SA at the forefront of wind adoption and the highest power prices in the world along with countries like Denmark. Solar and wind have been bludging off thermal insurers and not paying them their just premiums and consequently the owners are running them down with a view to retirement and that clock is ticking. Yes you can make unreliables despatchable but only at much greater cost but already the pips are squeaking with power prices now and long term decisions have to made urgently or the brownouts will come if nothing is done about it. In SA we saw that panic with the Wetherill Govt installing 9 diesel generators, albeit with a look over there unicorn Tesla Big Battery. As it transpired SA had a mild summer but that will change particularly with more coal fired stations to close and increasing reliance on expensive gas peaking plants to fill the void.
This is all about power alright but it's the stuff that keeps us all in the manner to which we've become accustomed and any reasonably astute politician would know it. Do we do a Trump and ditch the emissions aspirations or not, that is the fundamental question being fought over in Canberra now although there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on with it.
Post by: macca on August 24, 2018, 06:55:54 AM
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Post by: Fizzie on August 24, 2018, 07:59:37 AM
The problem is you are still voting for a major party because that's where your preferences flow
& the answer to that one is to scrap the whole preferential voting setup in favour of first past the post, & if that means you've got 30 independents in Parliament, then that is what the voters (you remember them ??? - the people of Australia who gave you the job >:D) obviously wanted.
It'll never happen though, because both major parties know that they'd lose seats :'(
Post by: Fizzie on August 24, 2018, 08:01:46 AM
But if Abbott, Dutton and all of the other backstabbers think they know better then the majority of Australians, then they are about to get a long over due reality check.
& a lot of this debacle can be laid fair & square in Abbott's lap >:(
I hope you're happy with yourself now Tone, now that it looks like you've ensured that Labor wins the next election ??? >:D
Post by: Isuzumu on August 24, 2018, 08:44:42 AM
& a lot of this debacle can be laid fair & square in Abbott's lap >:(
I hope you're happy with yourself now Tone, now that it looks like you've ensured that Labor wins the next election ??? >:D
Oh and Turnball was going to win the next election, bullShit, he only just got in last time by one seat. And what an ego Turnball has, he is a selfish bastard.
Post by: MattNQ on August 24, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
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Post by: terravista on August 24, 2018, 11:04:45 AM
The only problem is, it’s a fact that the majority of Australians voted for Turnbull and his lefty greeny policies. Not Dutton or Abbott.
Not a fact and no they didn't.
They voted for all the local parasites with the knowledge that this POS Turnbull would be PM.
Post by: Rumpig on August 24, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
Party is still split about 50/50 by the looks of it, won't have changed a thing internally with the division in the Liberals
Post by: Bird on August 24, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Bishop knocked out in first round, Morrison gets up 45 - 40 over Dutton.bad luck to Mr Potato head.
Party is still split about 50/50 by the looks of it, won't have changed a thing internally with the division in the Liberals
Post by: Pete79 on August 24, 2018, 01:20:36 PM
And some numbers for those that like that sort of stuff...
“Taxpayers have already forked out $8 million this week to run Parliament as 85 Liberal Party politicians on base salaries of $207,000 claimed an extra $24,000 in daily travel allowance to decide who should be prime minister.
Parliament doesn't normally sit on Friday but Turnbull Government members are staying in Canberra to decide who should replace Malcolm Turnbull in a leadership spill on Friday afternoon.
....
Federal politicians are entitled to a $285 in travel allowance, on top of their accommodation, which means 83 Liberal MPs in the national capital are costing taxpayers an extra $24,225 because they couldn't resolve the issue on Thursday.
The Liberal Party's second leadership ballot in just three days occurred as parliament passed no new major laws, despite costing taxpayers an average of $8 million to run during sitting weeks. Government MPs also used their numbers in the House of Representatives to dissolve parliament so Liberal members could discuss their leadership crisis.
On Thursday, they resolved to delay the Liberal party room meeting until Friday, with 45 of the 85 in the room voting to go ahead with a spill motion.
Three cabinet ministers, on salaries of $382,000 a year, had fought to replace Mr Turnbull as prime minister in the Liberal Party's first three-way leadership contest since 2009.
Mr Turnbull, who earnt $538,000 a year as prime minister, will continue to receive a taxpayer-funded office and staff for life along with free first class flights.
The Department of Parliamentary Services costs taxpayers $149 million a year to run, average at close to $8 million a year during the 19 sitting weeks.”
I think we’d all agree that’s been money well spent... ???
Post by: Rumpig on August 24, 2018, 01:35:39 PM
bad luck to Mr Potato head.well played Turnbull I reckon....Duttons backers thought they could pressure Turnbull into leaving on thier terms and have Dutton walk straight into his spot, instead Turnbull bought enough time in the end to get the guy that he'd prefer replace him into the lead role. Seeing Abbott's face as he walked out of the meeting was gold, he's clearly not happy with today's result.....sadly he'll still be there in the background trying to run the country the way he wants it's run, a shame he's not gone altogether also.
Post by: Pottsy on August 24, 2018, 02:42:27 PM
All this Shit will do is have people voting for independents and we will end up with another minority government which in effect hamstrings us for another four years.
Post by: Bigfish on August 24, 2018, 02:54:04 PM
Absolutely disgusting what has gone on. I don't give a fig about left or right policies...that's all bullShit. We need governments that will put its people first. Poverty, homelessness, suicide, crime, corporate greed, farming, industry and any other thing that needs addressing have been thrown out. We must win and look after ourselves at any cost. Arseholes the lot of them.
Post by: Bird on August 24, 2018, 03:09:07 PM
Like AFL/NRL/RU/Cricket/Diveball...
The days of politicians giving .1% of a **** about the country over winning the next election disappeared a long time ago...
Post by: Bunyip on August 24, 2018, 03:30:17 PM
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 24, 2018, 03:40:58 PM
well played Turnbull I reckon....Duttons backers thought they could pressure Turnbull into leaving on thier terms and have Dutton walk straight into his spot, instead Turnbull bought enough time in the end to get the guy that he'd prefer replace him into the lead role. Seeing Abbott's face as he walked out of the meeting was gold, he's clearly not happy with today's result.....sadly he'll still be there in the background trying to run the country the way he wants it's run, a shame he's not gone altogether also.
I bet all those who backed Sir Potato Head, are now all sniffing and licking around Scott Morrison's bum.
Scotty..... maaaaate, we only backed what's his face, cause we knew you'd get in, maaaaate.... seriously.
It was the entire plan all along, Scotty..... maaaate, honest ....would we lie about something like that?
Post by: Bird on August 24, 2018, 04:24:44 PM
I bet all those who backed Sir Potato Head, are now all sniffing and licking around Scott Morrison's bum.Yep, wait for the mini series.. Oh hang on we just had it.
Scotty..... maaaaate, we only backed what's his face, cause we knew you'd get in, maaaaate.... seriously.
It was the entire plan all along, Scotty..... maaaate, honest ....would we lie about something like that?
Post by: Hookie on August 24, 2018, 04:51:01 PM
Mr Turnbull, who earnt $538,000 a year as prime minister, will continue to receive a taxpayer-funded office and staff for life along with free first class flights.
That's horseShit. They should be means tested, same as every other pensioner. Turnbull's worth over 200 million, why should taxpayers keep adding to his pile for the next 30 years?
Post by: Nomad on August 24, 2018, 05:55:30 PM
Post by: Bigfish on August 24, 2018, 06:11:07 PM
And after all of this, in my opinion, which I admit is just like anyone elses asshole, is they still voted the wrong person in. Julie Bishop is the only marketable person the Libs have got. ScoMo is just short of being a blithering idiot, Dutton is seen as a Nazi. Bishop would have kept a fair majority of the Lib voters and got the womens vote the same as Gillard got. The lot of them are too stupid for words.
I agree....still , . Who cares. The government certainly dont. Dutton will be so far up Morrisons date that he wont see daylight for weeks.
Post by: Rumpig on August 24, 2018, 06:41:55 PM
And after all of this, in my opinion, which I admit is just like anyone elses asshole, is they still voted the wrong person in. Julie Bishop is the only marketable person the Libs have got. ScoMo is just short of being a blithering idiot, Dutton is seen as a Nazi. Bishop would have kept a fair majority of the Lib voters and got the womens vote the same as Gillard got. The lot of them are too stupid for words.yep....if this had anything to do with saving the party at the next election then Julie Bishop was the one who should have gotten the job, all the polls show her a mile infront as a preferred leader for the Libs with the general public...sadly this had nothing to do with saving thier party though.
Post by: Bigfish on August 24, 2018, 06:49:20 PM
yep....if this had anything to do with saving the party at the next election then Julie Bishop was the one who should have gotten the job, all the polls show her a mile infront as a preferred leader for the Libs with the general public...sadly this had nothing to do with saving thier party though.
This was nothing to do with whats best for Oz, its future or the party. This was an ego game. As much as I dislike Bishop she would have been the best of the mongrel bunch..
Post by: gronk on August 24, 2018, 07:25:09 PM
This was nothing to do with whats best for Oz, its future or the party. This was an ego game. As much as I dislike Bishop she would have been the best of the mongrel bunch..And in this day and age of gender equality, whether you agree with it or not, I'm surprised she didn't get the numbers ??
AND, during all this rubbish taking place, where was all the attention to actually running the country.....aahh, that's right, they don't do anything anyway !!
Post by: glenm64 on August 24, 2018, 07:37:24 PM
This sums up what most people think.
Warning F bomb
https://youtu.be/m0ufUSVSyUc
Cheers Glen
Post by: Nomad on August 24, 2018, 08:01:31 PM
Countries got big problems and they're just worried about themselves. Tells you what sort of people they are.
This sums up what most people think.
Warning F bomb
https://youtu.be/m0ufUSVSyUc
Cheers Glen
Yep the system is broke and no amount of new leaders will fix it.............gravy train anyone
Post by: Isuzumu on August 24, 2018, 08:10:01 PM
Post by: Shippo on August 24, 2018, 08:22:07 PM
Well that bit is over and the biggest problem is still to come Shorten will be in the Lodge in A few months or less and then you will have something to bitch about, or unless most of you belong to the CFMEU.
Because supporting the libs has worked out real well for the people of Australia?
Post by: DrewXT on August 24, 2018, 09:23:01 PM
Well that bit is over and the biggest problem is still to come Shorten will be in the Lodge in A few months or less and then you will have something to bitch about, or unless most of you belong to the CFMEU.Agreed, if they'd waited until after an election, they would have won another term with Turnbull at the helm, he could have retired, and ScoMo taken over anyway...
Pretty much guaranteed that Shitbag Daniel Andrews will get re-elected in Victoria in September too...
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Post by: gronk on August 24, 2018, 09:39:34 PM
Well that bit is over and the biggest problem is still to come Shorten will be in the Lodge in A few months or less and then you will have something to bitch about, or unless most of you belong to the CFMEU.
I used to belong to the CFMEU, and by way of amalgamation only got roped into the construction and forestry side of it. As a coal miner, in UMFA, we handled things quite well ourselves for decades.
We had plenty of strikes over wages and conditions, but generally didn't give a crap about affiliatation with labour leaders etc.
There will always be one side to any political discussion...yours....but I'll agree with one point...Shorten isn't PM material...zero charisma !! >:D >:D
Post by: Spada on August 25, 2018, 04:40:45 AM
I agree with one of the previous comments that we haven't actually had anyone govern the country since the Keating/Howard era ? Sadly, for the last decade our political leadership has been non-existent, and it makes you wonder if it is even worth voting at all ?
But thats the dilemma we face...............................Don't vote, and you have no say over who leads the country, do vote, and you still have no say over who leads the country ? If you vote for the best candidate in your area, and they are not aligned with the majority government, then you have little chance of that candidate being able to achieve anything for your area ?, and there is not much value in voting for an independent unless you can be sure they will hold the balance of power
Basically, our whole political system is little more than a lucky dip at the moment, and frankly both of the major parties appear to care little about anything other than destroying their opponents (or even their own party), or whose turn is it to sit on the iron throne.
FFS..........when will someone stand up and focus on running the country ?
Post by: xcvator on August 25, 2018, 05:05:02 AM
Post by: krisandkev on August 25, 2018, 06:38:59 AM
Post by: Marcus73 on August 25, 2018, 06:49:27 AM
Watch a bit of the senate and now I am really scared. Pauline Hanson gave a speech and she made sense. :-[ Kevin
You know s#%£s bad when she starts to make sense
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Post by: Bigfish on August 25, 2018, 06:59:22 AM
Post by: Bigfish on August 25, 2018, 07:18:35 AM
IF you don’t show up to vote in Australia on Election Day, you can expect to get a fine in the mail. Voting in this country is compulsory. But politicians listening to voters? Apparently that’s voluntary.
What we’ve learnt these past few years, culminating with this week’s leadership spill, is that in Australia the rules that the rest of us have to live by don’t seem to apply to politicians.
That they haven’t lived up to their side of the bargain has led to the diminishing of our faith, not just in our political parties, but in our political institutions and the system as a whole. It’s taken us to a dangerous place, where people shrug their shoulders and have given up caring, when really, we should care more than ever before.
Australians are sick of leadership spills, but our dissatisfaction runs deeper than that. We’re sick of the whole political game. Because although it’s a game for the politicians — tallying numbers like a scoreboard at the footy – for the rest of us, real life goes on.
Farmers suffering through drought? That’s real life, not a game.
Pensioners shivering through winter because they’re terrified of their heating bill for using their heater? That’s real life, not a game.
Young people who’ll never afford a home in a major city? That’s real, too.
This week’s leadership spill is only the latest chapter in our recent political history where we’ve seen that the real-life consequences experienced by the rest of us just don’t apply to politicians.
This past year, 15 members of parliament either resigned or were ruled ineligible by the High Court because they didn’t follow the rules and had failed to renounce their foreign citizenships. Not one or two. Fifteen. Careless with their paperwork and responsibility, they were still paid for the time they sat in Parliament without legitimacy. They didn’t have to pay back a cent. Their ineptitude cost us millions in by-elections and High Court hearings.
Ask someone who’s had their Centrelink payments overpaid how eagerly the government claws it back. Every last dollar and all the cents too. One rule for politicians, another rule for everyone else.
In June, politicians got a pay rise taking their base salaries to just under $200,000. It kicked in the same day that penalty rates were cut. Regular workers haven’t seen wage growth in years. One rule for politicians, another rule for everyone else.
But it’s not just unfairness and inequality that has politicians on the nose.
Malcolm Turnbull gives his final media conference as Prime Minister. Picture: Sean Davey
The broken system that they can take advantage of is a huge part of the problem.
Look at the Senate. At the ballot box, we’re handed papers so enormous and confusing they can’t possibly be read. Out of confusion, most people just put a “1” above the line and hope for the best, their votes decided by party preference deals.
Senators get voted in on party tickets, and then switch parties anyway. Cory Bernardi made sure he was on the Liberals ticket in 2016. Once in, he served briefly as an independent, before starting his own party, Australian Conservatives. No one has ever voted for this party in the Senate, yet it has its own Senator. Five other senators have also switched parties after being elected and there’s nothing we can do. How is that fair?
In the House of Representatives, we’ve become used to the leadership spills that decide who’ll be the prime minister. Never mind who was the leader at the election, they’ll change their minds on a whim anyway. New leaders bring new policies, of course. These days, we never get what we were originally sold. If a small business does that to a customer, they end up at consumer affairs. Again, its one rule for politicians, another rule for everyone else.
Friday’s vote didn’t resolve the leadership issue, it just spat out another prime minister to hold the fort until the next one. We know that by now. The same politicians and commentators who circled the ousted Malcolm Turnbull will circle Scott Morrison. They won’t think twice about it.
And even if he isn’t torn down before an election, neither he, nor a Labor leader either, can promise with any real conviction that they’ll deliver the policies they offer to us. We’re used to a system now where trust has been obliterated. We’ve seen the switch played on us time and time again. For them it's a game, for us it’s real life.
If there is one positive of this week, and these years of chaos, it’s that we can better see their true colours. We see our leaders standing beside a friend one day who they’ll throw to the wolves the next, for their own self-interest, vanity, ego or narcissism. We know now they will only pull the knife from the back of one colleague to plunge it into another. They couldn’t be more disingenuous, they couldn’t be more disloyal. If they’re disloyal to friends, what chance do we have of them being loyal to us? Our job now, having been scorned so frequently, is not to shrug our shoulders and look away, but to look closer.
“We’ve all got to live by the rules in this country,” Prime Minister Scott Morrison said in his first press conference yesterday.
We live by the rules, but all too frequently, he and his colleagues don’t.
The first step to mending the system, will be politicians showing us they can live by them too. They’ll be judged by their actions, not by their words.
Chris Urquhart is a freelance journalist. Follow him on Twitter: @chrisurquhart
Post by: Rumpig on August 25, 2018, 08:19:08 AM
Watch a bit of the senate and now I am really scared. Pauline Hanson gave a speech and she made sense. :-[ Kevinif that's the speech she gave on Thursday, I saw that....gotta say that if you take out her screeching voice and poor ability to articulate what she wanted to say, I agreed with what she said. In essence her message was that all the major pollies only care about themselves (she gave them a huge serve on that point), it's the Aussie public that have come to the rescue of drought stricken farmers whilst the government did SFA and did it to late, electricty costs are killing peoples businesses and standards of living, and to put it to the people what they think of the current immigration situation in Australia. Yes much of that is populist stuff, but was refreshing to see someone in parliament still in touch with the average punter....the saddest part of her speech, whoever the muppets were from the other party's that were shouting over top of her trying to drown out her message. You don't have to agree with her, but grow up and act like an adult when in Parliment, it was like watching school kids fighting in the school yard the way the other pollies were acting.
Post by: gronk on August 25, 2018, 08:40:49 AM
You don't have to agree with her, but grow up and act like an adult when in Parliment, it was like watching school kids fighting in the school yard the way the other pollies were acting.
Most pollies used to be in the private school debating teams, and haven't been in the real world since. Good with the gift of the gab, but lacking real world experience.
Pauline.......bit rough around the edges,and not overly smart, but she has got a bit of Trump in her.......shoots from the mouth instead of the brain, but "mostly" says what the public are thinking.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 25, 2018, 09:25:04 AM
Most pollies used to be in the private school debating teams, and haven't been in the real world since. Good with the gift of the gab, but lacking real world experience.
Pauline.......bit rough around the edges,and not overly smart, but she has got a bit of Trump in her.......shoots from the mouth instead of the brain, but "mostly" says what the public are thinking.
Only the public with a similar mentality. And don't start with the "silent majority" garbage, that's just a phrase people use when they know they don't really have the majority on their side.
But I do agree, with "bit rough around the edges,and not overly smart" ;D
Post by: corndog on August 25, 2018, 09:34:43 AM
Post by: glenm64 on August 25, 2018, 10:41:46 AM
Well that bit is over and the biggest problem is still to come Shorten will be in the Lodge in A few months or less and then you will have something to bitch about, or unless most of you belong to the CFMEU.People take for granted all the hard fought victories the union movement has made FOR ALL.
Compulsory super.
40hr work week.
Annual leave.
OH&S.
Workers compensation
Equal pay for Women.
Maternity leave.
Sick Leave.
Long service leave.
Meal breaks(yes you had to work ALL day without a break)
Thats just a start.
Was it a coincidence that as unions began getting stronger, child labour was eventually regulated and then made illegal?
I visit my grand dads grave in Fremantle and in that whole older section theres his and dozens of others buried by the unions because they were worked to death, died poor, and it was the Lumpers and WWF unions that gave them the decency of a burial.
Ever heard of The Hungry Mile and the Bull System? It wasnt so long ago.
Yep unions have ruined this country.
As you can tell Im slightly a "little" bit left.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180825/469a0a22fda9f8bdb8ddd57d996598f6.jpg)
Cheers Glen
Post by: Rumpig on August 25, 2018, 10:48:00 AM
Post by: gronk on August 25, 2018, 10:59:25 AM
People take for granted all the hard fought victories the union movement has made FOR ALL.
Compulsory super.
40hr work week.
Annual leave.
OH&S.
Workers compensation
Equal pay for Women.
Maternity leave.
Sick Leave.
Long service leave.
Meal breaks(yes you had to work ALL day without a break)
Thats just a start.
Cheers Glen
And they at times fought hard for some of these conditions, even getting shot on several occasions ...
As the coal mines were some of the hardest working conditions back 50 yrs ago, they were by nature some of the most militant and also the ones that got some of the above conditions.
Yet Jonny Howard was the one who tried very hard to take away some of those conditions...and did succeed on some of them..
Post by: glenm64 on August 25, 2018, 11:37:50 AM
Out of curiosity as I don't follow politics hugely....did Whitlam have a majority government, or did he have the same sort of rubbish 50 /50 split with minorities like the Greens and Independents pulling the strings set up our country has had the past however many years?Had a majority in the house of reps, but the Libs/Nats controlled the senate.
Thats why it all ended in bun fight in 75.
Cheers Glen
Post by: Bigfish on August 25, 2018, 11:59:12 AM
People take for granted all the hard fought victories the union movement has made FOR ALL.
Compulsory super.
40hr work week.
Annual leave.
OH&S.
Workers compensation
Equal pay for Women.
Maternity leave.
Sick Leave.
Long service leave.
Meal breaks(yes you had to work ALL day without a break)
Thats just a start.
Was it a coincidence that as unions began getting stronger, child labour was eventually regulated and then made illegal?
I visit my grand dads grave in Fremantle and in that whole older section theres his and dozens of others buried by the unions because they were worked to death, died poor, and it was the Lumpers and WWF unions that gave them the decency of a burial.
Ever heard of The Hungry Mile and the Bull System? It wasnt so long ago.
Yep unions have ruined this country.
As you can tell Im slightly a "little" bit left.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180825/469a0a22fda9f8bdb8ddd57d996598f6.jpg)
Heres 2 achievements..
Cheers Glen
Post by: McGirr on August 25, 2018, 03:41:24 PM
They never do what they say, in fact the opposite.
They continually lie.
They are only there to look after themselves.
They do not give a Shite about the voters.
Next election we will hear the same crap and lies and yet people still believe them and vote what ever party in.
I cannot remember the last time I actually voted for a party. I just get my name ticked off and leave the forms blank and put them in the ballot box.
Have I given up trusting a politician, yes, 30 plus years ago. Whats the point, as they never do what they say.
Mark
Post by: gronk on August 25, 2018, 07:22:15 PM
I cannot remember the last time I actually voted for a party. I just get my name ticked off and leave the forms blank and put them in the ballot box.
Mark
I have done the same some years....even left a msg on top of the form....f**k you.......just so the vote counter has something to talk about before they trow the form in the bin !! ;D
Post by: glenm64 on August 25, 2018, 07:22:28 PM
It does not worry me who gets in power and runs the country.
They never do what they say, in fact the opposite.
They continually lie.
They are only there to look after themselves.
They do not give a Shite about the voters.
Next election we will hear the same crap and lies and yet people still believe them and vote what ever party in.
Mark
Sadly Mark your dead right. Its been a long time since we had men of vision, with hearts that were for the people, country and future generational betterment.
The only polly I can think of that gives a rats arse about the workers is Doug Cameron, and sadly he is retiring after this term.
But there are working class men and women who genuinely want to leave the world in as good a shape as we can. Thats why the union movement still supports and tries to influence the policies of the ALP. Otherwise the flood gates would open and as bad as things are, we would be truly screwed by the greedy corporates of this world that really run the show.
Cheers Glen
Post by: tryagain on August 25, 2018, 09:24:14 PM
People take for granted all the hard fought victories the union movement has made FOR ALL.
Compulsory super.
40hr work week.
Annual leave.
OH&S.
Workers compensation
Equal pay for Women.
Maternity leave.
Sick Leave.
Long service leave.
Meal breaks(yes you had to work ALL day without a break)
Thats just a start.
Was it a coincidence that as unions began getting stronger, child labour was eventually regulated and then made illegal?
I visit my grand dads grave in Fremantle and in that whole older section theres his and dozens of others buried by the unions because they were worked to death, died poor, and it was the Lumpers and WWF unions that gave them the decency of a burial.
Ever heard of The Hungry Mile and the Bull System? It wasnt so long ago.
Yep unions have ruined this country.
As you can tell Im slightly a "little" bit left.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180825/469a0a22fda9f8bdb8ddd57d996598f6.jpg)
Cheers Glen
Those achievements were from a time when the union's actually cared about workers, my experience is that now they will happily sell out those they are supposed to represent for self interest. I am sure there are still some good people involved but I think as a whole they are a shadow of their former self and past their used by date.
As for the Whitlam comparison, I realise it's just a bit of political advertising bit how anybody takes that seriously I don't know, there are always two sides to every coin, but the fact the the Australian public decided to give a massive majority (91 seats to 36) to Fraser after Kerr turfed Whitlam out is enough to show that he was far from an effective leader.
Post by: gronk on August 25, 2018, 10:04:05 PM
Those achievements were from a time when the union's actually cared about workers, my experience is that now they will happily sell out those they are supposed to represent for self interest.
That may happen at the top level of any big organisation, but at the "coal face ", the workers are still represented by the "little" men who have their hearts in the right place.
Not unlike the local representative of a political party....who think they are in it for the right reasons....until they climb the ladder and find themselves feeding out of the same trough as the parliament pigs !!
Post by: Hookie on August 26, 2018, 07:33:01 AM
The only polly I can think of that gives a rats arse about the workers is Doug Cameron, and sadly he is retiring after this term.
That's news to me. Makes me sad, I like Doug too. Labour needs more like him.
Post by: Rumpig on August 26, 2018, 08:06:17 AM
Post by: gronk on August 26, 2018, 08:23:52 AM
Used to really love it many years ago when Labor were in power and the union guys would randomly pay our jobsites a visit trying to get all the subbies to join up...all with no luck...guaranteed every single time, the very next day a government Work Place Health and Safety guy would miraculously show up and give the site a hard time trying to shut the site down.....no collusion going on there at all ::) ::) whilst the unions have a place and have done good things for workers rights over the years, I have zero respect for the way they operated at the times I have had anything to do with them.
In the mines , a totally different workplace. We were covered by the mines OH&S, so one of the few industries with no ties to Workcover.
Different now, but yrs ago, everyone was in the union. We plodded along and did our own thing......until we amalgamated with the construction mob !
These days, the non unionists sit back and let the union get better pay or conditions, then get the benifits.......which they are entitled to do, but I didn't agree with it.
Post by: DaveR on August 26, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
Given up watching, listening or reading the NEWS.
Now I find myself a truck driver, I just have the Radio on JJ for the no talking and great random music they have.
At night, I spend it with the kids.
So now on, I don't care. What's the point. We'll now see the come back of Clive, Pauline will have more numbers, so to Katter, hey, how about the camping party, they have a good chance. Lets include Ricky again with his 17 in 1,000 votes, and the sex party.
Full on circus then
Then we'll be like Belgium, where I lived for a while, when they had no government for 2 years due to not being able to settle a result of a polling day.
Lots of entertainment to come with no issues or needs of US will be sorted out.
Post by: Rumpig on August 26, 2018, 09:27:19 AM
In the mines , a totally different workplace. We were covered by the mines OH&S, so one of the few industries with no ties to Workcover.being a self employed subbie i get to dictate my own pay rate, don't like the rate then I don't work for that builder....never worked in the mining or commercial sector in over 25 years of self employment and don't plan to any time soon, the BS paperwork and over the top WH&S that goes on there is not for me.
Different now, but yrs ago, everyone was in the union. We plodded along and did our own thing......until we amalgamated with the construction mob !
These days, the non unionists sit back and let the union get better pay or conditions, then get the benifits.......which they are entitled to do, but I didn't agree with it.
Post by: glenm64 on August 26, 2018, 10:02:04 AM
how anybody takes that seriously I don't know, there are always two sides to every coin, but the fact the the Australian public decided to give a massive majority (91 seats to 36) to Fraser after Kerr turfed Whitlam out is enough to show that he was far from an effective leader.
Yes Whitlam got flogged in the 75 election. Australia had just gone through the 73 oil crisis where oil prices had tripled, and that then ran into the 73 - 75 world wide recession.
On top of that Labor had the Khemlani loans affair, where they tried to raise funds from the middle east (which was awash with cash due to the oil crisis) .
The loans were to be at lower interest rates than the formal US bond market, but not done through the Aus Finance department. When it was reported on, they denied it and that was the end of them when Fraser blocked supply.
As for Whitlams legacy being bit of PR fluff, heres a bit more detail of his achievements in 3 years. Taken from an article a few years back in the SMH.
Gough Whitlam is perhaps best known for the manner in which he prematurely exited from power rather than how he chose to wield it
But wield it he did. Whitlam's short three-year shelf life as prime minister is generally recognised as one of Australia's most reforming governments.
Conservative government has been the norm in Australian politics since federation and the preference is for reform by increment rather than by rush. Consequently, much of what Gough Whitlam built – such as a free university education – has been torn down by successive governments on both sides of the political spectrum.
But what remains continues to shape Australia's national life like a guardian angel. Here is some of the Whitlam legacy:
? His government extricated Australia from the Vietnam War and abolished conscription. Australia had been fighting in South Vietnam since 1962. Two years later conscription was introduced but the first wave of baby boomers rebelled and eventually they, and their elders, took to the streets in moratorium nationwide marches that saw mass civil disobedience reflect the prevailing view. Labor's anti-war policy became one of Whitlam's most powerful election campaign assets.
? Whitlam took the demonology out of foreign policy, recognising China after the Coalition had refused contact with Beijing for 24 years. Whitlam ripped the rug from beneath Bill McMahon when he led a Labor delegation to China in July 1971 and the Coalition prime minister accused him of being a Communist pawn only to see United States President Richard Nixon announce his proposed visit to China a week later. Whitlam also attempted to redefine the alliance with the US.
? Medibank, the precursor to Medicare, was established.
? Social welfare reforms included the supporting mother's benefit and welfare payment for homeless people. Before 1973 only widows were entitled to pension payments, so other women who were raising children alone faced invidious choices. But the pension payment gave single mothers choices and options around the raising of their children. It also helped remove old stigmas around single mothers.
? Equal pay for women: One of the first acts of the Whitlam government was to reopen the National Wage and Equal Pay cases at the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission. The 1972 Equal Pay case meant that Australian women doing work similar to that done by men should be paid an equal wage. Two years later the commission extended the adult minimum wage to include women workers for the first time.
? The Postmaster-General's Department was replaced by the twin-headed Telecom and Australia Post.
? The Australian Legal Office and Australian Law Reform Commission were set up.
? The death penalty for Commonwealth offences was abolished. Melbourne escapee Ronald Ryan was the last man executed in Australia on February 3, 1967, for shooting a prison guard. Victoria and some state governments (not NSW which abolished capital punishment for murder in 1955) remained proponents of the death penalty. Whitlam's reforms led to the 2010 federal legislation prohibiting the reinstatement of capital punishment in all Australian states and territories.
? The Family Law Act providing for a national Family Court was enacted, and simplified, non-punitive divorce laws were introduced.
? The Whitlam government also established needs-based funding for schools after appointing Peter Karmel to head a committee examining the position of government and non-government primary and secondary schools throughout Australia. Karmel's report identified many inequities in the funding system, which for the first time led to the federal government providing funding to state schools.
? A free university education was briefly available to all Australians. In Whitlam's three years of government, participation in higher education increased by 25 per cent, to 276,559 enrolments. The main beneficiaries were women.
? Amid widespread business and union opposition, in 1973 the Australian economy was opened to the world by a 25 per cent cut in tariffs across the board. An early forerunner of the Productivity Commission was established as was the Trade Practices Act and a predecessor of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
? The Australian Assistance Plan to fund regional councils and employment projects continues in the concepts of "social planning" and "community development".
? The National Sewerage Program connected suburban homes to sewerage. The government spent $330 million on the program before it was cancelled by the Fraser government but in Sydney the backlog of unsewered properties fell from 158,884 in 1973 to 95,505 in 1978. Similarly, in Melbourne, the backlog was reduced from 160,000 in 1972-73, to 88,000 in 1978-79.
? The Whitlam government reduced the voting age to 18 and provided the Northern Territory and Australian Capital Territory with representation in the Senate.
? It replaced God Save the Queen with Advance Australia Fair as the national anthem.
? Queen Elizabeth became Queen of Australia when she signed her assent to The Royal Style and Titles Act 1973. The legislation also deleted the traditional reference to the Queen as Head of the Church of England by removing "Defender of the Faith" from her Australian titles.
? An Order of Australia replaced the British Honours system.
? The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 conferred rights to equality before the law and bound the Commonwealth and the states to the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination.
? The Department of Aboriginal Affairs was set up and the first Commonwealth legislation to grant land rights to indigenous people was drafted. The subsequent Malcolm Fraser government passed the legislation.
? Land title deeds were handed to some Gurindji traditional lands owners in the Northern Territory in 1975, a real and symbolic gesture that became a touchstone for the land rights movement.
? The Whitlam government also established the National Gallery of Australia, the Australia Council for the Arts, the Australian Heritage Commission. It introduced FM radio, pushed for the setting up of 2JJ, a radio established to support Australian music and connect with young Australians. It set up multicultural radio services – 2EA Sydney and 3EA in Melbourne – and issued licences to community radio stations for the first time.
? The Australian film industry flowered and the Australian Film and Television School, an idea of a previous Coalition prime minister, John Gorton, was opened.
? The reorganisation and modernisation of Labor's policy platform saved the ALP from its past.
? Papua New Guinea became independent on September 16, 1975, after being administered from Australia since the First World War.
Cheers Glen
Post by: edz on August 26, 2018, 10:23:59 AM
Post by: JusyApples on August 26, 2018, 10:40:43 AM
open borders, pink batts, building the education revolution I mean 1mil dollars for a Cola in a school was money really well spent. Unions... well probably a good reason why Australia is no longer competitive and work is moved off shore. Unions push employers asking for ridiculous conditions and pay and wonder why things close down. Look at Holden you had factory workers earning over $100k no wonder they became uncompetitive.
They force contractors to sign up to the union before they are allowed to work on a job site, if they don’t they don’t get the work.
I see the CFMEU belters all the time in the cafes of Parramatta with their bikie looking long sleeved shirts with the big gold chains and roid munching necks hanging out. Their sole role is intimidation.
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Post by: DrewXT on August 26, 2018, 11:11:49 AM
I have done the same some years....even left a msg on top of the form....f**k you.......just so the vote counter has something to talk about before they trow the form in the bin !! ;DThose ballot papers get put in the box after you leave, and counted as a discarded vote. Nothing goes in the bin anymore unless you put it there.
I think we need a PM like Trump, he's going to go down in US history as being the only president who ever delivered on an his election promises in his first term.
Love him or hate him, he's doing what he said he would...
My brief experience with unions, I worked at GM during Uni holidays, and the steward worked out after 6 weeks I wasn't a member, and was going to stand down the entire engine plant if I didn't join. I didn't join, and GM compensated me for having to break my contract early.
Ironically, I worked there many years later for their IT provider, and the same steward had another go at shutting down the plant if I didn't join the union, despite being a contractor with no direct relationship to GM.
We have a white collar union in the door where I work now, but everyone who's a member gets nothing from them when the cards are down, as the company refuses to acknowledge them...
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Post by: Fizzie on August 26, 2018, 11:28:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QfXP5kDFqQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QfXP5kDFqQ)
Very, very definitely NSFW!!!, but also very true >:D
Post by: corndog on August 26, 2018, 11:39:49 AM
Look at Holden you had factory workers earning over $100k no wonder they became uncompetitive.
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Not sure if they actually did earn that much. Cars are definitely no cheaper now that they are being made overseas for a 3rd of the price.
Post by: glenm64 on August 26, 2018, 11:41:42 AM
Didnt see anywhere I defended Rudd. Just another professional polly. One of the worst things that happened to Labor.
Easy to make blanket statements with no background or substance.
As for money well spent, Australia was spared recession due to our domestic economy not collapsing like those countries where austerity measures were introduced, collapsing internal economies. People here in Australia have no idea how bad the world economy was in the midst of the GFC. We still had money coming in from gas and iron ore, but the inability of banks to borrow money from the international markets meant tightening of the domestic financial market, stalling our economy.
Swann/Rudd listened to economic advice to keep our economy going. The deaths from the HIP were from greedy contractors fleecing a scheme administered by government departments unable to cope.
Companies sprung up, run by unscrupulous people, using unskilled and untrained workers. Gutted government departments were unable to administer the scheme. Rudd was ignorant to it all. Thats what sadly killed the poor victims. When Combett was brought in to oversee it, he was terrified by what he found and it was shut down.
There was a royal commission into it. Every bothered to read its findings?
As for the CFMEU comments, well thats another blanket statement I'll let go to the keeper. I contend that to paint all unions with a brush you colour from one proud militant union is erroneous.
Again what is the alternative to having unions?
Going cap in hand individually to the boss begging for scraps?
It would be like the scene from Oliver Twist.
Cheers Glen
Post by: tryagain on August 26, 2018, 11:53:22 AM
It's one thing to intimidate people into paying membership fees, it's another all together to then rip them off for the privilege.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 26, 2018, 12:18:13 PM
Why don’t you detail how good Kevin07 was for AustraliaIgnoring or course companies who decide they don't want to pay fare wages to workers, and are quite happy to exploit slave wage conditions of overseas workers, purely to boost their profit margin with absolutely no concern for what it does to the Australian economy, or it's workers.
Unions... well probably a good reason why Australia is no longer competitive and work is moved off shore. Unions push employers asking for ridiculous conditions and pay and wonder why things close down. Look at Holden you had factory workers earning over $100k no wonder they became uncompetitive.
They force contractors to sign up to the union before they are allowed to work on a job site, if they don’t they don’t get the work.
I see the CFMEU belters all the time in the cafes of Parramatta with their bikie looking long sleeved shirts with the big gold chains and roid munching necks hanging out. Their sole role is intimidation.
It's always a two edged blade when you discuss employers and employees. The unions make it a bit easier for the average worker, now especially for the ones on individual contracts, to negotiate farer wages and conditions on more equal terms.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 26, 2018, 12:21:25 PM
I have friends who are reasonably high up in the public service, one of them took on a new role in a different area and quickly identified someone incompetent and not doing anything, so they went to start the long process of managing them out, only to be told from the top that that the person is going no where, the union in the previous workplace negotions had traded off literally millions that their members could have received in order to gain a favour by getting this person the position.
It's one thing to intimidate people into paying membership fees, it's another all together to then rip them off for the privilege.
Yeah, plenty of stories/rumors like that floating around work places though.
Post by: Spada on August 26, 2018, 02:12:46 PM
time to lock it up before it gets ugly I think :-[
Post by: glenm64 on August 26, 2018, 02:54:52 PM
Thats exactly what the powers to be want us to do. Keep the peasants hungry, desperate and fighting amongst themselves. Then they dont look up and start to question the status quo.
In fact the world politics of today is very similar to the age old rule of nobility. Without coming from wealthy or powerful backgrounds, the common man cannot get into the rulership structure. Thus those of wealth and power continue to consolidate and grow their position, exploiting the workers who generate it.
If you stand for nothing you fall for everything.
Cheers Glen
Post by: Bigfish on August 26, 2018, 03:26:16 PM
Those ballot papers get put in the box after you leave, and counted as a discarded vote. Nothing goes in the bin anymore unless you put it there.
I think we need a PM like Trump, he's going to go down in US history as being the only president who ever delivered on an his election promises in his first term.
Love him or hate him, he's doing what he said he would...
My brief experience with unions, I worked at GM during Uni holidays, and the steward worked out after 6 weeks I wasn't a member, and was going to stand down the entire engine plant if I didn't join. I didn't join, and GM compensated me for having to break my contract early.
Ironically, I worked there many years later for their IT provider, and the same steward had another go at shutting down the plant if I didn't join the union, despite being a contractor with no direct relationship to GM.
We have a white collar union in the door where I work now, but everyone who's a member gets nothing from them when the cards are down, as the company refuses to acknowledge them...
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You want a prime minister like trump... haven't we got enough two faced, egotistical, hypocritical, sexist, mentally unstable boof heads now?
Post by: Pottsy on August 26, 2018, 04:56:18 PM
Post by: JusyApples on August 26, 2018, 06:13:08 PM
You want a prime minister like trump... haven't we got enough two faced, egotistical, hypocritical, sexist, mentally unstable boof heads now?Take trump any day. You won’t find a fair trump o meter from any of the leftist media.
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Post by: JusyApples on August 26, 2018, 06:26:27 PM
Hey JusySpared a recession due to spending every cent and now being in debt for god knows how long.
Didnt see anywhere I defended Rudd. Just another professional polly. One of the worst things that happened to Labor.
Easy to make blanket statements with no background or substance.
As for money well spent, Australia was spared recession due to our domestic economy not collapsing like those countries where austerity measures were introduced, collapsing internal economies. People here in Australia have no idea how bad the world economy was in the midst of the GFC. We still had money coming in from gas and iron ore, but the inability of banks to borrow money from the international markets meant tightening of the domestic financial market, stalling our economy.
Swann/Rudd listened to economic advice to keep our economy going. The deaths from the HIP were from greedy contractors fleecing a scheme administered by government departments unable to cope.
Companies sprung up, run by unscrupulous people, using unskilled and untrained workers. Gutted government departments were unable to administer the scheme. Rudd was ignorant to it all. Thats what sadly killed the poor victims. When Combett was brought in to oversee it, he was terrified by what he found and it was shut down.
There was a royal commission into it. Every bothered to read its findings?
As for the CFMEU comments, well thats another blanket statement I'll let go to the keeper. I contend that to paint all unions with a brush you colour from one proud militant union is erroneous.
Again what is the alternative to having unions?
Going cap in hand individually to the boss begging for scraps?
It would be like the scene from Oliver Twist.
Cheers Glen
If you are a good worker an employer will do anything they can to keep you. Without having to be intimidated by thugs masking as unions reps. Look at good old Bill shorten fleecing hundreds of millions from cleaners when he was a union rep.
When he becomes prime minister just watch the boats come, watch our money being sunk into economic refugees. More money being wasted on solar and wind instead of building power stations.
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Post by: gronk on August 26, 2018, 06:29:17 PM
Unions... well probably a good reason why Australia is no longer competitive and work is moved off shore. Unions push employers asking for ridiculous conditions and pay and wonder why things close down. Look at Holden you had factory workers earning over $100k no wonder they became uncompetitive.
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That is the common perception by people who don't know the real story.
I'd like to see the proof of factory workers on 100K a year ? Some maybe, but the small amount that did heaps of overtime etc make it seem normal, but like all industries, the reality for the average worker is a bit different.
And it has been proven, the wages or unions wasn't the factor behind Holden ( or the others ) closing down.
Post by: glenm64 on August 26, 2018, 06:30:13 PM
Anyday?
Surely you jest?
He is a corrupt misogynistic lying crook. The only reason he hasnt been charged(yet) is because they cant criminally charge a sitting President. Thats how F***ked up they are.
But fret not, he will be after his term in office, if he's not impeached first.
Cheers Glen
Post by: JusyApples on August 26, 2018, 06:41:30 PM
Trump?Keep listening to the leftist media. You won’t hear any praise of him watching tv or reading Facebook.
Anyday?
Surely you jest?
He is a corrupt misogynistic lying crook. The only reason he hasnt been charged(yet) is because they cant criminally charge a sitting President. Thats how F***ked up they are.
But fret not, he will be after his term in office, if he's not impeached first.
Cheers Glen
In other news the first boat has already arrived.
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Post by: tryagain on August 26, 2018, 06:47:48 PM
I dont have a problem with robust factual discussion. Just no need to take it personal or get personal.
+1
Post by: glenm64 on August 26, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Keep listening to the leftist media. You won’t hear any praise of him watching tv or reading Facebook.Sorry I just choked on my drink.
In other news the first boat has already arrived.
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Obviously the US state department and FBI are under Putins mind control.
Leftist media? Besides the Packers billionaire bro-mance with Trump, you actually believe the rest of the worlds media are owned by unions, China and Venezuela?
Now I know your pulling our chains. You my friend really are funny!
Cheers Glen
Post by: corndog on August 26, 2018, 07:13:40 PM
If you are a good worker an employer will do anything they can to keep you.
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Sorry it doesn't always work that way. I "AM AND ALWAYS HAVE" been a good worker. Worked for a mob that made millions a year. No union there. Had to fight for every dollar and I mean every dollar. They got more than what they paid out. In the end I left over a $1 a week issue. We made a deal and he wasn't paying it. Week by week it dropped by a dollar. After 6 weeks I told him to stick his job up his clacker. Others there asked about the union, when they came they let the bosses sit in and told the union they didn't need them. Guess what. One by one they got screwed over too. Suppose the boss needed the money to keep up his collection of Ferrari and Mercedes cars (2 of each when I was there). Then that is why you have scum workers.
Post by: glenm64 on August 26, 2018, 07:13:49 PM
John McCain gets Obama to give a eulogy, Trump not even invited to funeral.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/386385-obama-bush-to-give-eulogies-at-mccains-eventual-funeral-report
Cheers Glen
Post by: JusyApples on August 26, 2018, 07:25:23 PM
Just to show what even Trumps side of politics think of him.
John McCain gets Obama to give a eulogy, Trump not even invited to funeral.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/386385-obama-bush-to-give-eulogies-at-mccains-eventual-funeral-report
Cheers Glen
Research trumps list of achievements. See for yourself. Look at their economy and their unemployment rate since he became president.
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Post by: JusyApples on August 26, 2018, 07:29:04 PM
Sorry it doesn't always work that way. I "AM AND ALWAYS HAVE" been a good worker. Worked for a mob that made millions a year. No union there. Had to fight for every dollar and I mean every dollar. They got more than what they paid out. In the end I left over a $1 a week issue. We made a deal and he wasn't paying it. Week by week it dropped by a dollar. After 6 weeks I told him to stick his job up his clacker. Others there asked about the union, when they came they let the bosses sit in and told the union they didn't need them. Guess what. One by one they got screwed over too. Suppose the boss needed the money to keep up his collection of Ferrari and Mercedes cars (2 of each when I was there). Then that is why you have scum workers.Shit boss by the sounds of it. In my circumstance my wife works long hours, works hard for one of the big 4 she earns significantly more then people doing the same role she does. Others have attempted to poach her and each time her employer ups her pay to keep her. No unions in sight.
Some bosses don’t deserve good workers
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Post by: glenm64 on August 26, 2018, 07:31:08 PM
Research trumps list of achievements. See for yourself. Look at their economy and their unemployment rate since he became president.Not playing silly games anymore.
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Cheers Glen
Post by: Pete79 on August 26, 2018, 07:38:41 PM
Instead I thought we should get this thread back on track.
I’ve been interested to see the list of Abbot supporters that signed the Libs death at the next election petition and created this big waste of time and money that just happened.
So far Turnbull has not been forthcoming with the complete list of wreckers names.
We’ll have to go with some fake news from our own local lefty media to get some names of those in the government that had the sense to know Mr Patatohead would destroy what was left of our country’s respect in the world...
“WhatsApp messages reveal behind-the-scenes machinations.
'Friends For Stability' WhatsApp group;
Frontbenchers:
Simon Birmingham
Christopher Pyne
Kelly O'Dwyer
Marise Payne
Craig Laundy
Paul Fletcher
Anne Ruston
Melissa Price
Jane Prentice
Backbenchers:
Julia Banks (VIC)
Sarah Henderson (VIC)
Chris Crewther (VIC)
Jane Hume (VIC)
Julian Leeser (NSW)
Trent Zimmerman (NSW)
Richard Colbeck (TAS)
Lucy Gichuhi (SA)
The ABC's Insiders program has obtained a WhatsApp group chat thread between key moderate Liberals and new MPs, in a group named "Friends For Stability", discussing how the vote may play out.
Frontbencher Paul Fletcher kicks off the discussion.
"Cormann rumoured to be putting some WA votes behind Julie Bishop in round 1," he wrote to colleagues.
"Be aware that this is a ruse trying to get her ahead of Morrison so he drops out & his votes go to Dutton.
"Despite our hearts tugging us to Julie we need to vote with our heads for Scott in round one."
The recipients of the message include both ministers and backbenchers, and Christopher Pyne replied to say he had told Julie Bishop "very respectfully".
Mathias Cormann has denied to the ABC that he was employing such tactics to knock Ms Bishop out of the race.
Just hours after the Insiders report aired, Ms Bishop announced she was standing down as foreign affairs minister.”
All of the above is obviously fake news.
We’ll just have to wait for Mr Murdoch, Mr Jones and Mr Hadley to review the facts and shout at us exactly what we need to know....
Post by: tryagain on August 26, 2018, 08:12:44 PM
I don't think Trump is morally fit to be President but the economy seems to be firing on his watch. The leftist media do point to him being not very intelligent but I don't think you make, or even just maintain his kind of wealth being as dumb as they like to make out him to be.
The truth I generally find is never as good as advocates make out and never as bad detractors would have you believe.
Post by: Pete79 on August 26, 2018, 08:20:26 PM
In other news the first boat has already arrived.
Illegal Chinese fishing boat, but hay, don’t let the facts get in the way of that scaremongering....
Ohh, sorry my mistake.
Your simply re-enforcing the fact that our incompetent immigration minister has been completely distracted by his own ego and has stoped stopping the boats while he’s been trying to steal control of our country.
Got it. Thanks for the update... ;D
Post by: tryagain on August 26, 2018, 09:11:10 PM
Your simply re-enforcing the fact that our incompetent immigration minister...
I know the left hate Dutton for his role in boat turnbacks and OS detention centres but I think most impartial observer's would say he has actually been pretty successful.
His detractors bang on about detention centres all the while ignoring the fact that well over a 1000 people died at sea under the previous governments policies and just about everyone I read at the time thought that now the cat was out of the bag the boats and related deaths would never stop.
Yet he managed to stem the arrivals and likely saved 1000's of lives by doing so.
Post by: Pete79 on August 26, 2018, 09:15:31 PM
1 boat landed that makes the man incompetent.
Or more just that fact that while he’s been distracted by his power play he hasn’t been focused on what we pay him to do. So by that fact he is currently as incompetent as the rest of that mob down there.
Post by: tryagain on August 26, 2018, 09:24:58 PM
What I do find amusing though is the many who blame Abbott for bringing down Turnbull and are up in arms about it, but for the vast majority I bet there was no such outcry when Turnbull ousted Abbott.
Post by: krisandkev on August 27, 2018, 07:14:52 AM
Illegal Chinese fishing boat, but hay, don’t let the facts get in the way of that scaremongering....
Ohh, sorry my mistake.
Your simply re-enforcing the fact that our incompetent immigration minister has been completely distracted by his own ego and has stoped stopping the boats while he’s been trying to steal control of our country.
Got it. Thanks for the update... ;D
Well there you go. I thought we had other people out there working hard to locate a very small vessel in a bloody big ocean. No our poor immigration minister was doing it by himself. Amazing. So when a minister is distracted their whole department or departments just stop, in an instant! ??? Kevin
Post by: Pete79 on August 27, 2018, 07:18:23 AM
Well there you go. I thought we had other people out there working hard to locate a very small vessel in a bloody big ocean. No our poor immigration minister was doing it by himself. Amazing. So when a minister is distracted their whole department or departments just stop, in an instant! ??? KevinYep, Kevin Rudd killed that poor kid by himself remember.... ;)
Post by: Julian Kaye on August 27, 2018, 08:59:09 AM
They say that a country gets the politicians it deserves. After reading the mostly swill that passes for informed opinion on this thread then I'd say that's pretty close to the truth.
Post by: rockrat on August 27, 2018, 09:52:51 AM
Post by: Bigfish on August 27, 2018, 10:04:16 AM
They say that a country gets the politicians it deserves. After reading the mostly swill that passes for informed opinion on this thread then I'd say that's pretty close to the truth.
Yes...your comment certainly proves it...
Post by: achjimmy on August 27, 2018, 10:28:32 AM
Is trump making a diff yep the economy is going well confidence is strong.
Is the press making it hard for him 100% some of his notable achievments have been totally ignored.
But he started the war with them , as for McCain any career politician or Bureaucrat is going to hate him, his not playing by there rules. Simples they want him out.
Is he morally corrupt I reckon
Was he in bed with the Russians , yep I reckon . But then so was Hillary.
Will he get back in I reckon a shoe in from the everyday Americans I meet.
Post by: achjimmy on August 27, 2018, 10:30:13 AM
Just to show what even Trumps side of politics think of him.
John McCain gets Obama to give a eulogy, Trump not even invited to funeral.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/386385-obama-bush-to-give-eulogies-at-mccains-eventual-funeral-report (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/386385-obama-bush-to-give-eulogies-at-mccains-eventual-funeral-report)
Cheers Glen
Yep they hated each other , same as peacock won’t be giving Howard’s elugogy or Julia Kevin’s
Post by: achjimmy on August 27, 2018, 10:32:31 AM
I know the left hate Dutton for his role in boat turnbacks and OS detention centres but I think most impartial observer's would say he has actually been pretty successful.
His detractors bang on about detention centres all the while ignoring the fact that well over a 1000 people died at sea under the previous governments policies and just about everyone I read at the time thought that now the cat was out of the bag the boats and related deaths would never stop.
Yet he managed to stem the arrivals and likely saved 1000's of lives by doing so.
Not to mention the children labor put into the dentention centers in the first place that the left have gone on about for the last 5 yrs
Post by: JusyApples on August 27, 2018, 10:32:41 AM
I go to the states regularly and do business with a lot over there.Right on. Unfortunately I expected Glen not to bother looking at a list of the things he’s done because no matter what he does he wouldn’t be liked by certain parts of the population.
Is trump making a diff yep the economy is going well confidence is strong.
Is the press making it hard for him 100% some of his notable achievments have been totally ignored.
But he started the war with them , as for McCain any career politician or Bureaucrat is going to hate him, his not playing by there rules. Simples they want him out.
Is he morally corrupt I reckon
Was he in bed with the Russians , yep I reckon . But then so was Hillary.
Will he get back in I reckon a shoe in from the everyday Americans I meet.
Anyway enough of that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 27, 2018, 11:26:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsfLTvnzwI8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsfLTvnzwI8)
Post by: PWE on August 27, 2018, 12:49:57 PM
My understanding is that the main different between USA and Australian politics is that in the USA they vote directly for a leader. The Party have little say in how he or she govern. Policies is their policy, not Party policies. (it may be the same, but does not have to be)
In Australia we vote for a party and their leader is the Prime Minister. So if the Prime Minister does not follow the party line the party replace him. If the party change its policy the people vote them out.
Post by: tryagain on August 29, 2018, 02:04:41 PM
Post by: Bigfish on August 30, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
I just watched the docco about Donald Trumps golf course in Aberdeen, last night. It just reinforced my feelings about the egotistical, arrogant A'hole, who only cares about Donald Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsfLTvnzwI8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsfLTvnzwI8)
Just the tip of the iceberg mate. Anyone who supports trump and cant see past the hypocrisy, arrogance, greed and illegalities is either blind or just plain stupid.
Post by: Hookie on August 30, 2018, 04:22:19 PM
Just the tip of the iceberg mate. Anyone who supports trump and cant see past the hypocrisy, arrogance, greed and illegalities is either blind or just plain stupid.
I know that "new low" is a daily occurrence now, but I was pretty shocked today when I heard that he said he predicts violence if repubs don't do well in the midterms. That's basically threatening one side and inciting the other to violence if you don't get your way. It's amazing how much he has gotten away with, and how much is excused by his supporters.
Post by: Bigfish on August 31, 2018, 07:18:48 AM
quote...."in the interests of Australia as a humane and generous society". This is what he said when one 2 occasions he let in au-pair girls to work for people he knew or had been influenced by. Both said they intended to work but only had visitors visas. Maybe the Manus Island fcaptived should have claimed they all wanted to be au-pairs and they would have been given the green light rather be stuck in the Shit hole.
"in the interests of Australia as a humane and generous society"....who are you kidding dutton? wanker
Post by: Pete79 on August 31, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
Peter dutton...just a bigger grub than many..
An Australian veteran of the Afghan war has criticised Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton for intervening in a visa case to stop a French au pair from deportation after being lobbied by AFL boss Gil McLachlan.
Captain Jason Scanes has accused Mr Dutton of ignoring several requests for a sit down to discuss the possibility of granting a visa to an Afghan interpreter who worked alongside him during Australia's involvement in Afghanistan, and whose life is in danger from the Taliban.
“I am disgusted to think that the minister has seen it fit to personally become involved in (the au pair visa) issues.”
“I have requested meetings with (Mr Dutton) through my federal MP, I have travelled to Canberra on three occasions and presented at Parliament House and requested a meeting, I even sat outside his local electorate office in Brisbane for three days.
“Still he would not speak with me. I think that truly reflects the value and regard he has for our Defence Force and the many veterans across Australia.”
Captain Scanes has questioned why Afghan interpreters who assisted Australian troops during the Afghan conflict weren't given priority.
“I feel the majority of Australians would agree with me when I ask why the granting of visas to au pairs was seen as a high priority, requiring the minister’s intervention,” he said.
“The Afghan interpreters that wore the Australian Army uniform in Afghanistan, assisting troops and facilitating our government’s mission in the war on terror, are actively being hunted by the Taliban.
“Why are they not seen as a priority to process? Many have waited years to have their applications processed, only to be refused on the grounds of a character test. Many still have no answer.”
Post by: Fizzie on August 31, 2018, 08:28:08 AM
“Why are they not seen as a priority to process?
A nasty, cynical person, not me :angel:, might suggest that it's because they're not young, good-looking, blonde girls ??? >:D
Post by: krisandkev on August 31, 2018, 10:05:48 AM
Post by: Bigfish on August 31, 2018, 12:40:22 PM
I think this thread is heading for nasty one sided views rather than good discussion. Had to happen, always does. :'( I am opting out. Kevin
Just following the example our dignified pollies have set.... :cheers:
Post by: tryagain on August 31, 2018, 01:32:08 PM
“I feel the majority of Australians would agree with me when I ask why the granting of visas to au pairs was seen as a high priority, requiring the minister’s intervention,” he said.
“The Afghan interpreters that wore the Australian Army uniform in Afghanistan, assisting troops and facilitating our government’s mission in the war on terror, are actively being hunted by the Taliban.
“Why are they not seen as a priority to process? Many have waited years to have their applications processed, only to be refused on the grounds of a character test. Many still have no answer.”
I think that is more than a fair question
Peter dutton...just a bigger grub than many..
quote...."in the interests of Australia as a humane and generous society". This is what he said when one 2 occasions he let in au-pair girls to work for people he knew or had been influenced by. Both said they intended to work but only had visitors visas. Maybe the Manus Island fcaptived should have claimed they all wanted to be au-pairs and they would have been given the green light rather be stuck in the Shit hole.
"in the interests of Australia as a humane and generous society"....who are you kidding dutton? wanker
Pretty sure they are free to go home whenever they want, as hundreds already have. Those that are found to be genuine refugees are either let in or held under the previous Governments policies, those that remain are either those who ASIO consider security risks or not genuine refugees.
I am always curious what better solution those against offshore detention have to prevent 1000's dying at sea, I agree that it is very harsh but until someone comes up with something better I'll view it the least worst solution.
The 2010 tragedy at Christmas Island where 50 odd people drowned puts horrific images to the far greater numbers of deaths at sea, I don't know how anyone can watch those helpless people dying as they get smashed up against the cliffs and drown and advocate for policies that encourage people to take the journey and try to claim being humane as justification.
Post by: Bird on August 31, 2018, 01:42:06 PM
I think that is more than a fair question
Pretty sure they are free to go home whenever they want, as hundreds already have. Those that are found to be genuine refugees are either let in or held under the previous Governments policies, those that remain are either those who ASIO consider security risks or not genuine refugees.
I am always curious what better solution those against offshore detention have to prevent 1000's dying at sea, I agree that it is very harsh but until someone comes up with something better I'll view it the least worst solution.
The 2010 tragedy at Christmas Island where 50 odd people drowned puts horrific images to the far greater numbers of deaths at sea, I don't know how anyone can watch those helpless people dying as they get smashed up against the cliffs and drown and advocate for policies that encourage people to take the journey and try to claim being humane as justification.
They can always submit the paperwork and join the queue like other people do...
Post by: Bigfish on August 31, 2018, 04:23:32 PM
I think that is more than a fair question
Pretty sure they are free to go home whenever they want, as hundreds already have. Those that are found to be genuine refugees are either let in or held under the previous Governments policies, those that remain are either those who ASIO consider security risks or not genuine refugees.
I am always curious what better solution those against offshore detention have to prevent 1000's dying at sea, I agree that it is very harsh but until someone comes up with something better I'll view it the least worst solution.
The 2010 tragedy at Christmas Island where 50 odd people drowned puts horrific images to the far greater numbers of deaths at sea, I don't know how anyone can watch those helpless people dying as they get smashed up against the cliffs and drown and advocate for policies that encourage people to take the journey and try to claim being humane as justification.
Many are not free to go home. If they go home they would face a real chance of death and PNG also wont issue travel papers. They are virtual prisoners. Certainly we need the camps...but Shit...cant we make them more humane...
Post by: Paddler Ed on August 31, 2018, 04:37:15 PM
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/anhs-brush-with-fame/series/3/video/DO1630H005S00
When he explains how the head orthopaedic doctor was
Post by: Bird on August 31, 2018, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: Bigfish
...cant we make them more humane...
Plenty of struggling families hetre... Gov co doesnt give a **** about.
Then theres the 1000's of homeless here that we should be looking after too... but they dont.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 31, 2018, 06:13:24 PM
I think that this can help explain why people become refugees from persecution or the risk of persecution:
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/anhs-brush-with-fame/series/3/video/DO1630H005S00
When he explains how the head orthopaedic doctor wasshotexecuted for refusing to undertake surgery for punishment reasons, it kind of sets the scene.
Exactly, and that's what many people don't even consider, the circumstances of why the become refugees. They call them reffos or illegal immigrants, and think they are only here for the benefits etc. Thanks for posting Ed.
Post by: tryagain on August 31, 2018, 07:50:01 PM
I think that this can help explain why people become refugees from persecution or the risk of persecution:
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/anhs-brush-with-fame/series/3/video/DO1630H005S00
When he explains how the head orthopaedic doctor wasshotexecuted for refusing to undertake surgery for punishment reasons, it kind of sets the scene.
I don't doubt that there are genuine refugees, thats why about 90% of the boat arrivals were found to have genuine claims, but let's also not pretend that many of them didn't travel through several countries where they didn't face the persecution they did in their own country on their way here.
Predominantly, the ones left in overseas detention are those who were found not to be genuine, ie they don't face persecution if they go back home but tried to BS their way into the country, they have been denied asylum but refuse to go back home.
I don't begrudge them trying to get a better life for themselves and their family, but I would rather take someone who is genuinely in need as opposed to someone just seeking to upgrade their country.
Post by: Bigfish on September 01, 2018, 08:03:20 AM
I don't doubt that there are genuine refugees, thats why about 90% of the boat arrivals were found to have genuine claims, but let's also not pretend that many of them didn't travel through several countries where they didn't face the persecution they did in their own country on their way here.
Predominantly, the ones left in overseas detention are those who were found not to be genuine, ie they don't face persecution if they go back home but tried to BS their way into the country, they have been denied asylum but refuse to go back home.
I don't begrudge them trying to get a better life for themselves and their family, but I would rather take someone who is genuinely in need as opposed to someone just seeking to upgrade their country.
"I don't begrudge them trying to get a better life for themselves and their family, but I would rather take someone who is genuinely in need as opposed to someone just seeking to upgrade their country.
[/quote]....LIKE A COUPLE OF EU=PAIR GIRLS that the minister ok,d? Just more double standards from our elitist pollies.
Post by: Fizzie on September 01, 2018, 09:45:42 AM
Certainly we need the camps...but Shit...cant we make them more humane...
But a lot of these people were previously starving, while living in rubble in the middle of a war zone, with the very real chance of being killed by being shot or blown up at any time.
They're now sleeping on beds, in tents, on a tropical island, with hot running water, 3 meals a day, TV & medical facilities provided, & are able to walk down to the beach to swim or fish if they want to.
That's inhumane ???
Post by: Bigfish on September 01, 2018, 10:35:11 AM
But a lot of these people were previously starving, while living in rubble in the middle of a war zone, with the very real chance of being killed by being shot or blown up at any time.Must be different camps to the ones I,ve seen on TV docos and what the next door neighbour (who works at one) tells me....sure you weren't watching Getaway?
They're now sleeping on beds, in tents, on a tropical island, with hot running water, 3 meals a day, TV & medical facilities provided, & are able to walk down to the beach to swim or fish if they want to.
That's inhumane ???
:cheers:
Post by: Fizzie on September 01, 2018, 10:39:58 AM
I was going off what I saw on TV a "few" years ago ???
Post by: Bigfish on September 01, 2018, 11:54:13 AM
Must have been ???
I was going off what I saw on TV a "few" years ago ???
lol :cheers:
Post by: tryagain on September 01, 2018, 12:04:03 PM
Must be different camps to the ones I,ve seen on TV docos and what the next door neighbour (who works at one) tells me....sure you weren't watching Getaway?I knew someone who was involved in churning out the donga's to house them, not glamorous but at least to the standard they also made for FIFO workers, sure there was a time when Labors policies resulted in arrivals reaching 25,000pa and they had to house people in tents to keep up with the influx, but I'd be surprised if there was still the need for tents given the reduction of numbers since then. I have no issue in not providing great conditions for those who have been found not genuine but refuse to leave, it shouldn't be cruel or inhumane though either. It is a hard one to know what to believe though, the reports you see from some who want them closed down unsurprisingly paint a bad picture of them and the Government who doesn't unsurprisingly say's they are fine. Where between the two the truth lies is impossible to know for sure, but make it to cushy of a wait in detention and word gets out that you get a nice stay in an ODC for a year before getting granted asylum and watch the boats start back up again and associated deaths at sea.
:cheers:
"I don't begrudge them trying to get a better life for themselves and their family, but I would rather take someone who is genuinely in need as opposed to someone just seeking to upgrade their country.
....LIKE A COUPLE OF EU=PAIR GIRLS that the minister ok,d? Just more double standards from our elitist pollies.
Someone looking to come in and work instead of holiday for three months is a totally different proposition than someone trying to live hear and claim the associated benefits are two wildly different propositions. Yes it seem like Dutton made a couple of decisions that benefited people he knows and he should have to answer for them, but in the scheme of things, I don't think he has gone against any rules or regulations and think it's mainly his detractors who are trying to blow it up into something far bigger than it actually is. Plenty of other pollies who have fallen foul of actual rules and I bet the same people jumping up and down about this didn't get into anywhere near as big of a flap about it, especially for those on the other side of politics.
Post by: Bigfish on September 01, 2018, 01:31:29 PM
I knew someone who was involved in churning out the donga's to house them, not glamorous but at least to the standard they also made for FIFO workers, sure there was a time when Labors policies resulted in arrivals reaching 25,000pa and they had to house people in tents to keep up with the influx, but I'd be surprised if there was still the need for tents given the reduction of numbers since then. I have no issue in not providing great conditions for those who have been found not genuine but refuse to leave, it shouldn't be cruel or inhumane though either. It is a hard one to know what to believe though, the reports you see from some who want them closed down unsurprisingly paint a bad picture of them and the Government who doesn't unsurprisingly say's they are fine. Where between the two the truth lies is impossible to know for sure, but make it to cushy of a wait in detention and word gets out that you get a nice stay in an ODC for a year before getting granted asylum and watch the boats start back up again and associated deaths at sea.
Someone looking to come in and work instead of holiday for three months is a totally different proposition than someone trying to live hear and claim the associated benefits are two wildly different propositions. Yes it seem like Dutton made a couple of decisions that benefited people he knows and he should have to answer for them, but in the scheme of things, I don't think he has gone against any rules or regulations and think it's mainly his detractors who are trying to blow it up into something far bigger than it actually is. Plenty of other pollies who have fallen foul of actual rules and I bet the same people jumping up and down about this didn't get into anywhere near as big of a flap about it, especially for those on the other side of politics.
But they came in visiting visas and not work visa,s...even admitting to working while here. This should have been stopped at the border, like the officials in charge tried to do...as many thousands of examples before them. However once again the wealthy knew who to contact and have a rule broken so the rich didnt have to get their hands dirty.. Bloody disgrace! You may not think its a big deal but I , like a huge amount of people are sick of the bastards having one rule for us and one rule for the wealthy. Anyway I,ll leave it at that as my beer is nice and cold..cheers
Post by: tryagain on September 01, 2018, 04:26:54 PM
But they came in visiting visas and not work visa,s...even admitting to working while here. This should have been stopped at the border, like the officials in charge tried to do...as many thousands of examples before them. However once again the wealthy knew who to contact and have a rule broken so the rich didnt have to get their hands dirty.. Bloody disgrace! You may not think its a big deal but I , like a huge amount of people are sick of the bastards having one rule for us and one rule for the wealthy. Anyway I,ll leave it at that as my beer is nice and cold..cheers
Have a look here, as I said bo rule was broken. https://theconversation.com/peter-duttons-decisions-on-the-au-pairs-are-legal-but-there-are-other-considerations-102414
Post by: Bigfish on September 01, 2018, 04:57:05 PM
Have a look here, as I said bo rule was broken. https://theconversation.com/peter-duttons-decisions-on-the-au-pairs-are-legal-but-there-are-other-considerations-102414
Legally yes...morally..absolutely. Would you like to have as a judge if you were poor and just a regular joe? I think not!
Post by: Hookie on September 11, 2018, 05:22:15 AM
At some point doesn't Shorten have to have a look in the mirror and wonder if he is the right guy for the job?
Post by: Bigfish on September 11, 2018, 06:44:12 AM
So after all that has happened, and only 2 weeks on the job, Morrison is leading Shorten by 10 points as preferred prime minister, even though Labor is still the preferred government.
At some point doesn't Shorten have to have a look in the mirror and wonder if he is the right guy for the job?
Didnt the Libs just do suicide by changing leaders? Labor are not that stupid to change a leader now.
Post by: Rodt on September 11, 2018, 06:55:52 AM
Didnt the Libs just do suicide by changing leaders? Labor are not that stupid to change a leader now.Don't know if they did. If ScoMo is already well ahead as preferred PM then they won't have to do much more to get ahead as a party. Have never heard anyone say that Bill is their pick as PM.
Will have to wait and see I suppose
Post by: tryagain on September 11, 2018, 07:04:25 AM
Didnt the Libs just do suicide by changing leaders?
Time will tell with the libs, the difference might be Morrison got the gig rather than Dutton which they all must be breathing a sigh of relief about now.
Labor are not that stupid to change a leader now.I think you give them too much credit, Shorten is about as popular as a fart in an elevator. If the pendulum swing's in the next couple of newspolls he will need to be looking over his shoulder.
Post by: Pete79 on September 11, 2018, 09:34:14 AM
Don't know if they did. If ScoMo is already well ahead as preferred PM then they won't have to do much more to get ahead as a party. Have never heard anyone say that Bill is their pick as PM.Libs just lost Wagga after holding it for 60 years.
Will have to wait and see I suppose
I know that’s state, but most of the interviews I saw on polling day where pretty clear that the federal debacle was a big factor in how they voted that day.
That and lots of comments about not wanting to be in safe seat anymore so they could get some funding for their local projects.
Post by: McGirr on September 11, 2018, 09:44:25 AM
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/independent-joe-mcgirr-on-track-for-historic-wagga-win-20180908-p502kz.html (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/independent-joe-mcgirr-on-track-for-historic-wagga-win-20180908-p502kz.html)
Mark
Post by: Rumpig on September 11, 2018, 11:27:25 AM
So after all that has happened, and only 2 weeks on the job, Morrison is leading Shorten by 10 points as preferred prime minister, even though Labor is still the preferred government.Turnbull was the preferred leader in those polls whilst he was PM I think from memory, but Labor was ahead on 2 party preferred polls. From memory Shorten was about 4th in those polls as a preferred leader, behind several other Liberal Party people aswell at Turnbull
At some point doesn't Shorten have to have a look in the mirror and wonder if he is the right guy for the job?
Post by: Pete79 on September 11, 2018, 11:54:21 AM
From memory Shorten was about 4th in those polls as a preferred leader, behind several other Liberal Party people aswell at Turnbull
Pretty sure Shorten was about 8th on the preferred PM list.
He was still trailing Bubbles the clown, Coco the monkey and that octopus that was picking World Cup winners on the last polls that I saw....
:cup:
Post by: Bird on September 11, 2018, 11:57:09 AM
Post by: Bunyip on September 11, 2018, 12:34:00 PM
It is the internal bickering that gets to me.
Post by: Bird on September 11, 2018, 12:49:10 PM
Quote from: Bunyip
It is the internal bickering that gets to me.its the blatant breaking of laws and getting away with it, the lies and deceit that gets me
Post by: Rodt on September 11, 2018, 12:52:47 PM
Libs just lost Wagga after holding it for 60 years.
I know that’s state, but most of the interviews I saw on polling day where pretty clear that the federal debacle was a big factor in how they voted that day.
That and lots of comments about not wanting to be in safe seat anymore so they could get some funding for their local projects.
Yep they have but from what I have heard reported Labour didn't gain any votes. I wonder if the people are protesting against Turnbull being removed or the whole sorry federal situation which includes the lot of them. Shorten is as crooked as a dog's hind leg and some of the things that come out of most of the minor parties and independents mouths confirm for me that the whole show is a complete mess.
Someone reminded me once "Do you vote for the PM or do you vote for who you perceive to be your best local member". If people voted in Wagga because of Turnbull and not who their best candidate would be then more fool them.
Post by: Pete79 on September 11, 2018, 01:00:54 PM
Someone reminded me once "Do you vote for the PM or do you vote for who you perceive to be your best local member". If people voted in Wagga because of Turnbull and not who their best candidate would be then more fool them.That’s why I still struggle to understand how for over 23 years the now infamous Peter Slipper was deemed to be our best local member, then it was Mal Brough (what a champion he was) and now some other guy I’ve never seen or heard of “representing” me.
There’s been a pattern forming in my electret since 1983, and it ain’t voting for the best local member.....
Post by: tryagain on September 11, 2018, 01:22:00 PM
does anyone really take any notice of these polls?
I think the pollies must, both majors have now gotten rid of a sitting PM twice in recent years based on them.
Post by: Bird on September 11, 2018, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: Pete79
... and now some other guy I’ve never seen or heard of “representing” me.I think thats the majority of us sadly.
Post by: Paddler Ed on September 11, 2018, 02:57:32 PM
I think thats the majority of us sadly.
We have Barnyard "representing" us... no one can forget that... the sooner Adam Marshall decides to step up the better...
Post by: Nomad on September 11, 2018, 06:34:49 PM
That’s why I still struggle to understand how for over 23 years the now infamous Peter Slipper was deemed to be our best local member, then it was Mal Brough (what a champion he was) and now some other guy I’ve never seen or heard of “representing” me.
There’s been a pattern forming in my electret since 1983, and it ain’t voting for the best local member.....
The coast has always been liberal. Thats been our downfall. Libs know we'll vote them in so give us nothing, when labour get in they know we didn't vote for them and give us nothing....its a win win for the policitians. Your local member now is a bloke called Ted O"Brien, who was my school captain at Nudgee when I was in grade 11. Nice enough bloke but...meh. His parents own a holiday house opposite the Junior SLSC on KIngs Beach, so thats his local tie I think.
Noosa's local member is Sandy Bolton, who was the lady who lost the last mayoral race to our total fwit mayor, backed by the local green groups, she's pretty good, but from my conversations with her they still all do sweet ****all.
Post by: Hookie on September 11, 2018, 07:15:31 PM
If Bill were to resign gracefully without the protracted navel gazing and infighting then I think that would be accepted well (or at least better) by the public. In addition, Labour isn't governing so I believe the change would not be perceived as poorly as it is not changing the PM, just the Muppet on the other side of the house.
This is what I was thinking. I doubt many people would care too much if the opposition party changed leader, but when you get elected to government with a certain PM and switch halfway through people get irritated.
I think labor are in with a good chance of taking government next time around, but they could probably improve their chances by putting someone more popular at the helm now. Of course, after the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd fiasco they made it a lot harder for the party to get rid of a dud leader, so they have that to live with too...
I'm not saying I want a labor government (not saying I want libs either), but jeez Bill, you have to realise nobody likes you!
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on September 11, 2018, 07:34:37 PM
I'm not saying I want a labor government (not saying I want libs either), but jeez Bill, you have to realise nobody likes you!
No he doesn't, he's surrounded by Toadies and 'yes people' and he's imsulated very well from all the dislike and resentment directed towards himself.
Post by: alnjan on September 11, 2018, 09:52:01 PM
No he doesn't, he's surrounded by Toadies and 'yes people' and he's imsulated very well from all the dislike and resentment directed towards himself.
Anyhow didn't KRudd change the rules within the Labor camp so the elected Leader couldn't be stabbed and replaced as easily as he was and as he did?
Post by: tryagain on September 11, 2018, 10:01:22 PM
Anyhow didn't KRudd change the rules within the Labor camp so the elected Leader couldn't be stabbed and replaced as easily as he was and as he did?
Not as easily, but still doable from my recollection, basically it was 60% of MP's required to call as spill against an opposition leader and 75% against a sitting PM, BUT from memory it would only take 50% of MP's to change the rule, and as we saw with Turnbull (and other sitting PM's before him) if 30-40% of your party doesn't support you its fatal, is just a matter of when not if.
Post by: alnjan on September 11, 2018, 10:34:25 PM
Not as easily, but still doable from my recollection, basically it was 60% of MP's required to call as spill against an opposition leader and 75% against a sitting PM, BUT from memory it would only take 50% of MP's to change the rule, and as we saw with Turnbull (and other sitting PM's before him) if 30-40% of your party doesn't support you its fatal, is just a matter of when not if.
I never took much notice at teh time, just remember KRudd gloating about his 'protection' when Abbott was stabbed.
Post by: achjimmy on September 11, 2018, 10:45:55 PM