Author Topic: One for the motorcyclists  (Read 6838 times)

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Offline Bird

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 11:58:22 AM »
in all my years in the bike industry and people I still know in it, not many have good things to say about ABS.. infact most disable it as soon as possible.. Even blokes in my club at the get together in Sydney other week only 1 hadn't disabled it..
Same as on the bike forums I was on - VFR forum specially it was not liked, but sadly most were Americans.

With braking on bikes, its certainly is a personal thing... And if you wanna use it you can, but you shouldn't be forced to use it if it doesn't suit your riding style. I've only tried it on early versions on VFR's and didn't like it either, but thankfully it was easily disabled :D
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 12:26:56 PM »
ABS will come into play only when it detects that the wheel is close to lock up. I have ridden large Yammie and Suzie road bikes with it and it has no effect. Ride as if it wasnt fitted to the bike and you,ll not notice it. Like it or not it here to stay. I,ve drop a few bikes from wheel lock ups and anything that helps a rider avoid gravel rash is a good thing.
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Offline loanrangie

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 12:47:36 PM »
All these doo dads may make vehicles safer but its still morons that get behind the wheel that have no idea how to think for themselves that cause the issues.
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 02:13:11 PM »
All these doo dads may make vehicles safer but its still morons that get behind the wheel that have no idea how to think for themselves that cause the issues.

Those same morons would do the same thing in a model T Ford or a Audi R8. If only euthanasia was the fine for using a mobile whilst driving......
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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 06:33:31 PM »
With braking on bikes, its certainly is a personal thing... And if you wanna use it you can, but you shouldn't be forced to use it if it doesn't suit your riding style.

Mr Bird you seem to be an expert on most things but I have a question for you about ABS on motorcycles.  When do you need to lock a wheel up when riding a bike on bitumen?  I have riden for a year or two and I used to like locking the rear up on the dirt to have a bit of fun in the corners but never locked a wheel, intentionally anyway, on the black stuff.  Educate me.

Offline Muxxer

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2017, 05:29:55 AM »
It's possible for an expert to match or better braking distances in the dirt without ABS compared with, but it takes a lot of training.

Max grip occurs just before breaking loose and you have to learn by locking up the wheel when this occurs. Locking up the front is hair raising. It cost me a broken rib in the course I did.

Bosch leaning ABS/TC is up to gen 10 now I think. Very sophisticated. On bitumen it's only a dash light telling you it kicked in.  Other systems are not nearly as good.

Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2017, 05:49:59 AM »
Still reckon it would be far better for Gumbies that want to ride a bike,  go out and do the O'l Skool thing and heaven forbid actualy learn some riding skills.
 Dumbing things down and have a computer do things for the masses will  breed a dumber rider that will  get complacent and have  less skills than  needed, that  thinks a computer will save them when ever they push things too far .
Bring in the Body bags to pick up the meat ..
My opinion of course .

We have a winner.  :cup:

If the powers to be, actually taught folks how to ride/drive, "MOST" wouldn't need the electronic crap they fit today.
Go and turn off the parking beepers on 10 cars and see how many drivers could park it without tapping the other car.

The lack of ability, to actually "drive/ride" the vehicle has been lost and Shit like this, means it will get worse, as the rider/driver, thinks,i won't have a stack or a front wheel go out from under me, I've got ABS.

Then, one day, it fails to work and the poor diddums have no idea what the F*** to do.

Stop dumbing people down, you're only making it worse.
 

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Offline Bigfish

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2017, 06:39:06 AM »
We have a winner.  :cup:

If the powers to be, actually taught folks how to ride/drive, "MOST" wouldn't need the electronic crap they fit today.
Go and turn off the parking beepers on 10 cars and see how many drivers could park it without tapping the other car.

The lack of ability, to actually "drive/ride" the vehicle has been lost and Shit like this, means it will get worse, as the rider/driver, thinks,i won't have a stack or a front wheel go out from under me, I've got ABS.

Then, one day, it fails to work and the poor diddums have no idea what the F*** to do.

Stop dumbing people down, you're only making it worse.

So do we ban automatic transmissions, power assisted steering, power assisted brakes, air conditioning, radial tyres,driving lights and say steering dampers on bikes, traction control.etc.etc...All these things are taken for granted now but revolutionary when put out to the public. All help to save lives. Every new bike rider should be made to do a one day course at a race track , with qualified instructors with such topics as braking, cornering lines, use of rear vision mirrors, lane swapping etc.etc.  Technology is assisting riders, not making them dumber.
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Offline edz

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2017, 07:01:22 AM »
Wont have to worry about learning anything soon,  With Motobot you will ride almost fast as a pro racer and the computer will take all your riding risks for you.
 No experience needed at all, complete Novices welcome,  you can sit at home in Airconditioned comfort safe and sound on the lounge chair and sip a latte, [ optional fan for that wind in your face experience and no bugs ]  While watching the POV cam from  the bot and enjoy the thrill of riding where ever you want on TV along with that big surround sound experience..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISz8Mvs7GcE ... There ya go ESC, ABS, TC, AL, AR, AI, AE, PS, PT and probably PMS Its go the lot, Hell no worries about getting done for DUI either, But I wonder who gets the fine for speeding though ?   Wasnt me officer ! I was sitting at home watching TV.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:31:24 AM by edz »
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Offline Bird

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2017, 09:40:42 AM »
You will never prevent all accident/crashes. Just not possible. While people can buy a dodgey license it wont happen. But why do we always have to pander to the weakest link?

The best way to save lives which is not cheap which is why it will NEVER happen in Australia - is better Education/Training Cars/bikes/trucks/towing.  Until some Gov bites the bullet and says we need to change... nothing will get better.

Even simple things like the old 3-4 second rule - keeping a safe distance between  cars or on bikes. Driving along eastlink today looking at how close some cars are to others or semi trailers to cars, there is less than 1 car length at 100kph between them.... and there are 5-10 lined up that close.

Don't dive infront of that fully loaded b-double coming to a traffic light.. wait till light turns green and you can pass safely as you'll pickup speed quicker.

Lane splitting on bikes - some dudes I see on the Monash or other freeways in peak hour traffic which is at a stand still lane split at 80+... you know some facktard is going to see a gap and take it - even though they are going nowhere, and your gone.

Dont sit in blind spots on bikes, its not hard.. watch the greasy magnet, although nowhere near as bad as when I started riding etc etc There are basics in cars and bikes and trucks...

So much out there isnt rocket science... sadly so much is common sense :( which has died

Autos, Driving lights, radial tyres, Air conditioning saves lives? wow... You learn something every day. Not everything they do saves lives.

I know in NSW we polled for years in the 80/90's to have proper rider training courses but nobody wanted to listen - we had the support of bike shops and all... There were things like Stayupright but they were not mandatory so nobody did em. I did a few, even when I was racing.. still picked up things each time I went.

In Victoria every rider does have to do a 2 day rider training course - including out on the road, dunno about in other states but Vic courses have been around for years. Not sure how good it is - in th way I hope it wasnt designed by some desk flog thats never ridden a bike before but has 'good ideas'. 2 days seems pretty short to me, even 7 days would be good with real world riding, dry, wet on properly controlled wet circuits.

http://www.armstrongsdrivereducation.com.au/motorcycle-learners-permit-course.html
On March 19, 2016 Stage 2 of the new VicRoads Motorcycle Graduated Licensing System (M-GLS) commenced.  The M-GLS was introduced in order to provide new riders with an appropriate level of training for on-road riding.
Under the M-GLS, in order to obtain a motorcycle learners permit you must complete a standardised and compulsory 2 Day Learner Permit course.


There are so many items that are just gimicks to sell to the fools out there that pander to the brain dead who cannot actually drive and have bought thelr license at the pub. .. Shit like lane asssist, reverse park assist.. If you can't reverse park - you shouldn't have a license. Simple. It's part or was part of the exam.

My son is going through his learners stuff at moment and one instructor said 'we'll teach you how to get your license' - and its obvious driving down any road any day of the week - that is all they are doing... not teaching people how to drive but how to pass a test.. even worse around Box Hill area where I work.

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Offline loanrangie

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2017, 12:23:27 PM »
i saw a dickhead on the ring rd this morning riding a speed triple in shorts and weaving in and out of traffic, nothing will save him from himself.
 Never ridden a bike with ABS and only just now own a vehicle with ABS, DSC etc, learnt in cars without even boosted brakes back when you had to drive a vehicle, now you just point and shoot.
 FFS they even park themselves now.
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Offline Bird

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2017, 12:30:46 PM »
Quote from: loanrangie
i saw a dickhead on the ring rd this morning riding a speed triple in shorts and weaving in and out of traffic, nothing will save him from himself.
Bet he had gloves on though LMAO!
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Offline loanrangie

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2017, 12:39:26 PM »
Bet he had gloves on though LMAO!

Leather jacket, gloves and work boots  ::)
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Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2017, 12:41:00 PM »
So do we ban automatic transmissions, power assisted steering, power assisted brakes, air conditioning, radial tyres,driving lights and say steering dampers on bikes, traction control.etc.etc...All these things are taken for granted now but revolutionary when put out to the public. All help to save lives. Every new bike rider should be made to do a one day course at a race track , with qualified instructors with such topics as braking, cornering lines, use of rear vision mirrors, lane swapping etc.etc.  Technology is assisting riders, not making them dumber.

Oh well, guess we'll agree to disagree..... but I've never seen air conditioning save a life.
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2017, 12:42:50 PM »
It is also unbelievable the amount of city slickers who come up to Cairns for a holiday and want to get around on hired scooters. All dressed in thongs,t shirts and shorts.  Absolute dickheads...Plenty of the tuff harley boys only wearing t shirts as well...obviously never had gravel rash.
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Offline BTMNDR

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2017, 01:07:17 PM »
When I was researching my midlife crisis - 1st bike in some 35 years, I actually chose because I wanted ABS. For the life of me I don’t understand why one wouldn’t want safety features.

Perhaps we should do away with seatbelts, helmets, etc.  ???
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Offline austastar

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 04:06:54 PM »
It is also unbelievable the amount of city slickers who come up to Cairns for a holiday and want to get around on hired scooters. All dressed in thongs,t shirts and shorts.  Absolute dickheads...Plenty of the tuff harley boys only wearing t shirts as well...obviously never had gravel rash.
Hi,
    When living in Malaysia for a few years, it was usual practice to ride the few km to the beach in thongs, bathers and a towel over the shoulders.
Yep, much younger/sillier/immortal  back then.

Cheers

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Offline Muxxer

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 04:28:00 PM »
I gather ABS on all but mopeds is mandatory in Europe now so that means we'll see it regardless of local regulations.
Of course it pays for itself in an emergency stop when only an expert has a chance of braking in a shorter distance.
Passive and active safety features on vehicles over the decades have led to big reductions in injuries and deaths in crashes.  Can't see the problem here. If it infringes your liberty go and ride track days. 

Offline Bigfish

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Re: One for the motorcyclists
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2017, 06:00:20 PM »
Taken from a 2015 study done by Monash University...
MONASH UNIVERSITY ACCIDENT RESEARCH CENTREIII
MONASH UNIVERSITY ACCIDENT RESEARCH CENTRE
REPORT DOCUMENTATION PAGE
Report No.
Date
ISBN
ISSN
Pages
327
September2015
0732623979
1835
-
4815 (online)
49
Title and sub-title:
Evaluation of the effectiveness of Anti-Lock Braking Systems on motorcycle safety in Australia
Author(s):
Brian Fildes, Stuart Newstead, Matteo Rizzi, Laurie Budd, and Michael Fitzharris
Sponsoring Organisation(s):Australian Government Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development and VicRoads

Abstract:
This  study  sets  out  to  assess  the  benefits  of  ABS  technology  fitted  to  motorcycles,  classification, LC>125cc  (no  scooters  with  engine  cylinder  capacity
 exceeding  50ml  and/or  a  maximum  speed exceeding 50km/h), using Australian crash data, to compare these findings with published international research,  and  to  estimate  the  likely  benefits  in  reduced  crashes  and  injuries  in  the  years  ahead.
Importantly,  the  findings  showed  that  the  presence of  ABS  on  these  motorcycles  resulted  in  a  33% reduction in all injuries in relevant crash types and a 39% reduction in severe injuries in these crashes.
The  benefits  varied  depending  on  the  type  of  crash,whether  it  was  a  single  or  multi-vehicle  crash, occurred at an intersection, and whether the road was wet or not. There was good consistency in these findings across the various Australian states and similar international findings. Consequently there are marked savings in fewer fatalities as well as severe and minor injuries in these crashes and even further reductions are predicted over the next 10 years. It is predicted that these savings would be enhanced by efforts to increase the fitment rate of ABS on all new LC motorcycles in the coming years. The rate of fitment  could  be  accelerated  by  mandating  the  fitment  of  ABS  technology  for  all  new  LC>125cc motorcycles with associated reductions in crashes and severe injuries. 
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