MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: baz1 on September 16, 2019, 09:47:22 AM
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Hi All,
We want to use the Caboolture Public Weighbridge in Qld, i've never used one before, and am trying to find out if they have a tow ball scale. The only number listed with the weighbridge is a mobile number which goes to anwserphone. Does anyone know if weigh bridges usually keep tow ball scales you can use? I know you can buy them, but i'd rather not shell out $70 for something i would only use once.
Cheers!
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Hi All,
We want to use the Caboolture Public Weighbridge in Qld, i've never used one before, and am trying to find out if they have a tow ball scale. The only number listed with the weighbridge is a mobile number which goes to anwserphone. Does anyone know if weigh bridges usually keep tow ball scales you can use? I know you can buy them, but i'd rather not shell out $70 for something i would only use once.
Cheers!
no I woudlnt think theres much call for semi's using a towball scale :)
Buy one, use it and then return it ;) you bought it as a gift, and they didnt want it
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Buy one and keep it if you are concerned with ball weight.
It can change from trip to trip depending what and how you load.
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I've used the Caboolture Public Weighbridge to weigh the Car/Camper Trailer once and they were fantastic. They don't have a Tow Ball Scale as such, but they weigh the car/ trailer together and I then drove forward so the car is no longer on the scales to unhitch but keeping the trailer/Jockey wheel is on the scales. Then they work out your Tow Ball weight and total trailer weight.
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I checked mine at a caravan sales.
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I've used the Caboolture Public Weighbridge to weigh the Car/Camper Trailer once and they were fantastic. They don't have a Tow Ball Scale as such, but they weigh the car/ trailer together and I then drove forward so the car is no longer on the scales to unhitch but keeping the trailer/Jockey wheel is on the scales. Then they work out your Tow Ball weight and total trailer weight.
Same for me
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I know you can buy them, but i'd rather not shell out $70 for something i would only use once.
I've got one and I use pretty much every time I tow.
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I've used the Caboolture Public Weighbridge to weigh the Car/Camper Trailer once and they were fantastic. They don't have a Tow Ball Scale as such, but they weigh the car/ trailer together and I then drove forward so the car is no longer on the scales to unhitch but keeping the trailer/Jockey wheel is on the scales. Then they work out your Tow Ball weight and total trailer weight.
Yep if there is no line up do this
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As a side issue. Some Victorian weighbridges on the freeways, which are used by Vic Road and Police have displays that are on all the time. (At least on the Hume and Western) You can do all your own measurements for free.
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Yep they do and a lot of weekends when I have gone to weigh the car I have found a police car sitting at the Seymour one, not sure what they are doing but not game to weigh the car while their sitting beside the scales.
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Thanks for all the replies!
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Out of interest, I’m aware of another guy who took his camper to Go Weigh in Geelong, Vic, he did all the things described here to identify the tow ball weight (weighed car on bridge, then weighed car on bridge hooked up to trailer, with only car on bridge, and subtracted the two). The towball weight came in at 260kg. He then went home, and used a tow ball weigh scale from somewhere like BCF, no change to the load, it comes in at 110kg. How would you account for a 50kg difference, and which one would you trust?
His unladen towball weight is 150kg, he had two full 9kg gas bottles, so about 20kg total, two full 20ltr fuel jerry cans, so about 30kg total, a full fridge, so about 40kg, and a front and rear 80ltr water tanks full, the front water tank is about 2 feet further away from the axle than the rear, so it must have some bearing on the ball weight. Then he had all the other usual stuff. So in light of this, what would you estimate his ball weight to be, and therefore which of the two weighing methods would you say is more accurate?
The difficulty is, presumably it’s not as simple as saying 20kg in front of the axle equates to an additional 20kg of ball weight, as it depends on the distance of the 20kg from the axle. 20kg directly on the hitch is going to add 20kg to the ball weight, 20kg just in front of the axle is not.
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The difficulty is, presumably it’s not as simple as saying 20kg in front of the axle equates to an additional 20kg of ball weight, as it depends on the distance of the 20kg from the axle. 20kg directly on the hitch is going to add 20kg to the ball weight, 20kg just in front of the axle is not.
You would need to draw a free body diagram.
The trouble with cheapo nose weight scales is that they are not calibrated. Even the calibrated ones will lose their calibration with age. The weighbridge will be calibrated regularly, although they are usually intended for weighing heavy weights and perhaps not so accurate with lighter loads?
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Yep they do and a lot of weekends when I have gone to weigh the car I have found a police car sitting at the Seymour one, not sure what they are doing but not game to weigh the car while their sitting beside the scales.
If they are angled facing the wrong direction, they will most likely be doing speed checks.
Doubt very much they will worry if you go in and weigh yourself.
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This might help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMoLA44lcgU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMoLA44lcgU) .
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Out of interest, I’m aware of another guy who took his camper to Go Weigh in Geelong, Vic, he did all the things described here to identify the tow ball weight (weighed car on bridge, then weighed car on bridge hooked up to trailer, with only car on bridge, and subtracted the two). The towball weight came in at 260kg. He then went home, and used a tow ball weigh scale from somewhere like BCF, no change to the load, it comes in at 110kg. How would you account for a 50kg difference, and which one would you trust?
His unladen towball weight is 150kg, he had two full 9kg gas bottles, so about 20kg total, two full 20ltr fuel jerry cans, so about 30kg total, a full fridge, so about 40kg, and a front and rear 80ltr water tanks full, the front water tank is about 2 feet further away from the axle than the rear, so it must have some bearing on the ball weight. Then he had all the other usual stuff. So in light of this, what would you estimate his ball weight to be, and therefore which of the two weighing methods would you say is more accurate?
The difficulty is, presumably it’s not as simple as saying 20kg in front of the axle equates to an additional 20kg of ball weight, as it depends on the distance of the 20kg from the axle. 20kg directly on the hitch is going to add 20kg to the ball weight, 20kg just in front of the axle is not.
The distance from the tow hitch to the centre of the tow vehicle’s axle is another lever and the mass increases from the towball to the rear axle (people with long tow hitchs take note). This is the only real weight the scalies are interested in. They weigh axles. I’ve never seen them unhitch a trailer ever. Weigh your rear axles while hooked up and compare against what manufacturer max is for that axle.
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Thanks, how would you go about weighing your rear axle on the bridge?
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Thanks, how would you go about weighing your rear axle on the bridge?
drive the front wheels off the bridge.. but again how far off you move them will change the reading.
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Yep they do and a lot of weekends when I have gone to weigh the car I have found a police car sitting at the Seymour one, not sure what they are doing but not game to weigh the car while their sitting beside the scales.
Police, dont worry. Road traffic authority in charge of weigh stations. Just a good spot for speed checks...
:cheers:
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drive the front wheels off the bridge.. but again how far off you move them will change the reading.
Approach and departure on the weigh plates are the same level so the distance off ddoesn't effect the reading.
This allows B doubles to be weighed by axle groups.
Also need to be mindful of the increments the scales show. Eg. 10 kg, possibly 20kg.
Not much when you are weighing 20 tonne trucks, but more when calculating ball weights.
Also make sure YOU are standing on the plates, as you are also part of the load.
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Thanks, how would you go about weighing your rear axle on the bridge?
Drive the front axle off the bridge and get a weight of the rear and trailer, then drive the rear axle off and weigh trailer only, then subtract the trailer weight.
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I more than likely don't understand but why would you want to weigh your tug rear axle with the van hooked up? This won't give you a ball weight as the weight of the vehicle will be in the mix wouldn't it?
The way I weigh mine is drive forward enough so that the tow vehicle rear axle is off the bridge which gives me my van gtm and I then put the jockey wheel down (on the platform) to take the weight off the tug which then gives me my atm. I then take the gtm weight off the atm which gives me a rough ball weight. There is more included in the atm (ie: drawbar weight etc) but it serves as a rough indication if I don't wish to buy a towball scale.
Cheers
Rod
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Thanks Rod, so are you saying if you use a weighbridge to identify the ball weight, using the various methods described here (thanks everyone), that ball weight will include the draw bar between the ball and the trailer, which ordinarily would not form part of the ball weight?
This being the case, would this explain this other persons discrepancy between the ball weight identified at the weighbridge and the tow ball scale?
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I think I’m just going to bite the bullet and buy a tow ball scale. All the ones at BCF etc look like they are not for polybpock couplings, but the ball couplings. Can anyone recommend one for s polyblock coupling?
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I use the one for a ball coupling, at the front of the drawbar there is a plate the poly black is connected to. I just put it under here. It is only about 10-15cm back from the poly block so makes minimal difference to the results (which aren't super accurate anyway)
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This might help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMoLA44lcgU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMoLA44lcgU) .
875 lbs ball weight!!! :o :o :o
What, is he using his ute to tow a D10 Cat on a trailer ???
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I more than likely don't understand but why would you want to weigh your tug rear axle with the van hooked up? This won't give you a ball weight as the weight of the vehicle will be in the mix wouldn't it?
Yes, it wont give you the ball weight, but there's 6 weights you benefit from knowing, and can be measured in this order (best done with all passengers food and fuel on board):
1 Front axle weight - more recent vehicles than any of mine have this weight specified, and this reflects the load on there with the weight of the trailer and rear load in. Too light and you poor tyre contact with the ground and therefore rubbish steering, and if IFS rubbish tyre wear on the ouside of the tyre as that is the only part in contact with the ground.
2 GVM of the tow vehicle = weight of the vehicle, including the load from the towball transferred to the vehicle
3 Towball weight = the weight on the towball (pull nose of trailer on to weigh bridge and put it on the jockey wheel, take vehicle of weighbridge)
4 Train weight or GCM = the weight of the loaded tow vehicle and trailer. Manufacturers specify this
5 Rear axle weight = the load on the rear axle, including the towball weight that is transferred to the vehicle. Again manufacturers specify this on more recent things. May need golook at moving weight forward to get it under the limit if theres capacity on the front axle.
6 Trailer GVM = the total weight of the trailer
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I think I’m just going to bite the bullet and buy a tow ball scale. All the ones at BCF etc look like they are not for polybpock couplings, but the ball couplings. Can anyone recommend one for s polyblock coupling?
I got a one of these https://reich-web.com/en/products/vehicle-accessories/cwc-caravan-weight-control-up-to-1000-kg/
Just wind the jockey wheel down on it, too easy. Specs say accuracy <3%.
FWIW there is a digital weighbridge at a quarry near me for weighing big trucks and big loads. The operators tell me the accuracy has a 50kg tolerance. Seems (weighbridges) are not ideal for measuring ball mass.
I just decided a scale was worthwhile for peace of mind, safety, avoiding potential overloading fines and the drama of not being able to move on if caught overloaded.
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Yes, it wont give you the ball weight, but there's 6 weights you benefit from knowing, and can be measured in this order (best done with all passengers food and fuel on board):
1 Front axle weight - more recent vehicles than any of mine have this weight specified, and this reflects the load on there with the weight of the trailer and rear load in. Too light and you poor tyre contact with the ground and therefore rubbish steering, and if IFS rubbish tyre wear on the ouside of the tyre as that is the only part in contact with the ground.
2 GVM of the tow vehicle = weight of the vehicle, including the load from the towball transferred to the vehicle
3 Towball weight = the weight on the towball (pull nose of trailer on to weigh bridge and put it on the jockey wheel, take vehicle of weighbridge)
4 Train weight or GCM = the weight of the loaded tow vehicle and trailer. Manufacturers specify this
5 Rear axle weight = the load on the rear axle, including the towball weight that is transferred to the vehicle. Again manufacturers specify this on more recent things. May need golook at moving weight forward to get it under the limit if theres capacity on the front axle.
6 Trailer GVM = the total weight of the trailer
I think you will find ATM is correct term for the total loaded weight of the trailer and includes tow ball mass.
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Try This... (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=how+to+get+towball+weight)
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I more than likely don't understand but why would you want to weigh your tug rear axle with the van hooked up? This won't give you a ball weight as the weight of the vehicle will be in the mix wouldn't it?
The way I weigh mine is drive forward enough so that the tow vehicle rear axle is off the bridge which gives me my van gtm and I then put the jockey wheel down (on the platform) to take the weight off the tug which then gives me my atm. I then take the gtm weight off the atm which gives me a rough ball weight. There is more included in the atm (ie: drawbar weight etc) but it serves as a rough indication if I don't wish to buy a towball scale.
Cheers
Rod
Because unless you are worried about exceeding ball weight or loading a van, towball mass is not generally a figure looked at by enforcement agencies. They do however have an iPad with every vehicle’s max axle loads and will check your trailer gross, all by having you quickly drive over their scales.
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Removed as talking bollox.
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GVM ( sometimes GVW) is used too. Perhaps not in Australia.
(https://carsguide-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto,t_cg_hero_large/v1/editorial/towing-graphic.jpg)
Maybe so, but GVM refers to Gross Vehicle Mass & ATM refers to Aggregate Trailer Mass to avoid confusion (here in Aus)
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I think you will find ATM is correct term for the total loaded weight of the trailer and includes tow ball mass.
Removed as talking bollox.
Maybe so, but GVM refers to Gross Vehicle Mass & ATM refers to Aggregate Trailer Mass to avoid confusion (here in Aus)
It was 5 minutes before I was due at work 10minutes away... so I got a bit lost; I actually find GTM and ATM to be very confusing. In the UK, they use the term MAM - Maximum Authorised Mass, much simpler and can be used in all contexts.
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GTM is the axle mass on trailer (not counting ball weight)
ATM is the total. I think of it as ALL trailer mass, inc ball weight
I got out my ball scale and had a play. 4 different readings
Photo 1 is where I sit for the poly block.
A. Winding the jockey up =90
B. After A, rocking a frame side to side = 130 (not a very safe method)
C. After A giving the A Frame a gentle push down = 150
D. After A standing on A Frame and getting off (I'm about 70 kg) = 190.
E. As D + my 50 kg kid we got up to 240 and after we got of it reset to 190 (no photo)
Doing all of the above the scale doesn't bounce up and down like bathroom scales
So I got out the bathroom scales and the actually gave a reading just over 130. The scale would keep going past 0 so it hadn't maxed out.
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.
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Maybe so, but GVM refers to Gross Vehicle Mass & ATM refers to Aggregate Trailer Mass to avoid confusion (here in Aus)
I realised that just after I posted. See my edit ;D
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GTM is the axle mass on trailer (not counting ball weight)
ATM is the total. I think of it as ALL trailer mass, inc ball weight
I got out my ball scale and had a play. 4 different readings
Photo 1 is where I sit for the poly block.
A. Winding the jockey up =90
B. After A, rocking a frame side to side = 130 (not a very safe method)
C. After A giving the A Frame a gentle push down = 150
D. After A standing on A Frame and getting off (I'm about 70 kg) = 190.
E. As D + my 50 kg kid we got up to 240 and after we got of it reset to 190 (no photo)
Doing all of the above the scale doesn't bounce up and down like bathroom scales
So I got out the bathroom scales and the actually gave a reading just over 130. The scale would keep going past 0 so it hadn't maxed out.
So the question is, are the towball scales remotely accurate?
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So the question is, are the towball scales remotely accurate?
how longs a piece of string?
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how longs a piece of string?
Twice as long as half its' length.....
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You hear regularly that there are knock-off towball scales that are pretty inaccurate and the consensus seems to be that as long as you stick to a name brand they aren't too bad.
I am usually more concerned with GVM and ATM weights (and consequently GCM) as this is what I don't want to exceed no matter what. This is dependant though on what vehicle I am using to tow as the Pajero has different towing capacities based on the ball weight. Obviously it is too hard for it to be simple :'(
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You hear regularly that there are knock-off towball scales that are pretty inaccurate and the consensus seems to be that as long as you stick to a name brand they aren't too bad.
The brand I used was Towsafe, which I thought was as name brand Readings vary from 90 -190, depending how I used it. (Unfortunately I lost the instructions) It is in a as new condition. Haven't used it much and not got it wet etc.
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All good mate yes it is my understanding that Towsafe is a name brand. There are apparently knock-offs with the same or extremely similar name (I think maybe Tow-safe) that have caught some people
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I thought it was a good brand too, but as my earlier post shows the readings,without changing the trailer varied 90-190 kg, depending on how I measured it, without
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I thought it was a good brand too, but as my earlier post shows the readings,without changing the trailer varied 90-190 kg, depending on how I measured it, without
That looks very like the one I have. I've found mine consistent enough for me not to have noticed any inconsistency... if you see what I mean. The only problem I have had is that the painted on scale is rubbing off in the 45-75 range that I use most.
https://www.milenco.com/products/safety/noseweight-gauge (https://www.milenco.com/products/safety/noseweight-gauge)
"This is the only Noseweight Gauge approved and calibrated to the British standard for these instruments. It offers calibrated precision, accuracy, reliability and technical superiority over other Noseweight Gauges. It has a clear large scale to ensure the precise and safe loading for this safety critical area, to ensure caravan stability when towing"
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I spotted a post where a guy made his own electronic tow ball scale using a load cell in indicator, wasn’t much more than a couple of hundred
Hmmm, I have eight load cells and one indicator in the shed at work.
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