240v House Electrical Questions

[DannyG]

Bit of an odd one for me but I think we may have one or two sparkies than can help me out here.

We are building a new house. In the spec's of the house build it is using the Clipsal 2000 series of products. A pretty basic but more than a suitable product for us.

I recently asked the builder if we can have dimmers on some of the lights/rooms. Some are LED down lights and some are just standard batten lights. He quoted $125 per switch extra....... 

I also asked how much extra it would be to replace a couple of double gpo's with the ones that have built in usb's. He quoted $150 extra per gpo..... 

I also asked if we could upgrade the living room switches and a couple of the power points that are on display to something a little nicer in the clipsal range such as the icon or saturn (we havent really researched so we were unsure what we wanted at this stage). He said to let us know how many and he would quote it...........we are thinking based on the switch and gpo prices we wont bother.

So my question is this. Are those prices reasonable or grossly inflated?

Is it feasible to just get him to use his standard inclusion switches and we have them replaced at a later date with dimmers where we want them? Is the wiring to the switch the same?

Likewise can we just buy usb gpo's ourselves have them replaced at a later date?

Do LED downlights use a special dimmer? (my very limited research suggests yes but normal battons do not?)

Thanks for any advice.

[loddo]

Hi Danny     you would be better of waiting untill the job is finnished and ask the sparky to do the changes  as the builder is loading up so he makes more  . the sparky will be not getting any extra i bet.

[austastar]

Hi,
     I bought all the electrics from a wholesale place and the sparky charged me time.
Cheers

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[vern]

Dimmers to suit led are about $40 each tops, but you need to allow another spot in the switch plate, so a larger switch is required, so add another $10.
Saturn series stuff is very expensive.
Clipsal 2000 series looks Shit, get clipsal Classic series, looks better in a house and costs exactly the same price.
As for usb gpos, use a clipsal 2025x in classic series, and fit a usb point to ut where the switch goes. Shouldn't cost much more than $70 per point.

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[gronk]

My house is 20yrs old, but the 2000 series were the most modern at the time. Still look OK to me, and the difference to the classic series is personal choice, but not something I would give a hoot either way !!

The builder tried the old trick as well to us.....so we scrubbed the electrical install off the build and did it myself ( with a mate who is licensed )
If you haven't got that luxury, just install the basics and get a leco to finish off the job later ( or at build time if the builders leco will accommodate you )

[rocktron]

regarding dimmer- 1 gang switch plate will need to be changed to 2 gang, plus the dimmer. No extra cabling required to switch. Make sure you buy "universal" LED dimmer then it will suit all LED drivers (both trailing edge and  leading edge). Approx $40-70 depending on how fancy you want to go (they have "smart dimmers" now)

USB GPO's- do cost a bit, about $70 for double GPO with the Mech in already. Plus sparkies time to swap over, travel to site etc

Builder will always throw 25+ % mark up on equipment plus labour charges

classic series is actually a fraction cheaper than 2000 series and looks better IMO

Go to a electrical wholesaler if you want or get your local sparkie- dont do anythin through the builder as you'll get taken for a ride with VO's

[nab]

As above, go for Classic series rather than 2000, I hear whispers they are discontinuing the 2000 range. Should cost exactly $0 extra, if the builder says otherwise let him know that he is a rip off prick, it won't cost him or the electrician anymore except for a phone call...

Although there is another brand Trader (owned by the old Clipsal owner..) who make almost identical plates...

[#jonesy]

Instead of looking for another sparkie,  have you looked at a new builder?
What does he want to charge for any other variations?

[DannyG]

Thanks very much for the replies.

A few things to clarify. I now find out its not the clipsal 2000 series but it is the Puma range http://www.gsme.com.au/switches-sockets/cats/puma that he is currently using.

Not that it matters, either way the 2000 series, classic or this puma range will be just fine for the most part.

I cant change builders, we are in too deep for that and I have to say he has been very reasonable and fair for 99% of the time. All the other variations after we did the colour choices/fit out selections were below what we had anticipated ourselves (we did some rough calculations based on retail pricing).

The only two things that has shocked us is this electrical over pricing and we tried to change the house garage door (he quoted double what we could buy one retail) but I since found out he had already ordered the one we originally picked. We didnt pursue it because we are ok with the one we are using.

So, there will be a logical reason he has inflated his prices so much. No doubt it has something to do with his supply chain or he is sick of dealing with us  or something but anyway we will let him just fitout the electrical how it was quoted in the specs and we will make our own changes later. But it is an odd way to conduct a business......EG stupidly inflate a price so you dont have to do something!! Not that he would care too much about his reputation he is one of the busiest builders in the state and has been for 20 years.

Not too much will get wasted. Ill use any gpo I remove from the house in the shed somewhere and if I put dimmers on a few of the lights Ill use the old switches in the shed as I am putting in a toilet, store room and have future plans for some other man cave ideas so theyll get used.

[loddo]

Hi   Try and catch up with the sparky before he fits out . You may be able to deal with him and cut the builder out. I had customers ask me to do what you want.  i picked up extra work later on and was happy to do it as it was another customer .

[GBC]

Hi   Try and catch up with the sparky before he fits out . You may be able to deal with him and cut the builder out. I had customers ask me to do what you want.  i picked up extra work later on and was happy to do it as it was another customer .

I would read my contract and consider possible outcomes very carefully before embarking on side projects with the builder's own subbies. I've seen everything from punch ups, lock outs, solicitors, the whole lot - occur over such things. This stuff gets messy quick.
The builder will have a standard margin he applies to the sparkie's rate, and there will most definitely be a stuffing around factor applied for changes made after contract signing - handover docs etc all have to be changed - retail sparkies and 'my mate said's' do not count when estimating the price. My stuff around factor is a sliding scale and can applied arbitrarily according to various factors unless I am on a particular contract.
With a domestic building contract I would think you would be working these variations open book and you should know his margin. First thing I would do is ASK THE BUILDER - why, in you opinion, the prices seem inflated by 20 odd percent. ASK THE BUILDER if he is open to you having dialogue with the sparkie. If he is like me and every other builder I know he won't give 2 Shits about sparkies and dimmers and will be happy for you to play those games, so long as he knows, because 5 other things will no doubt be affected by that and he will have to make adjustments. Bear in mind though when it goes to crap you've just allowed him to pay you $20 to have a very strong 'out' if something goes wrong.....As a project manager the hair on the back of my neck just went up reading it, because clients trying to run side projects on jobs ALWAYS ends up as a sh!t fight I have to fix.

[DannyG]

I would read my contract and consider possible outcomes very carefully before embarking on side projects with the builder's own subbies. I've seen everything from punch ups, lock outs, solicitors, the whole lot - occur over such things. This stuff gets messy quick.
The builder will have a standard margin he applies to the sparkie's rate, and there will most definitely be a stuffing around factor applied for changes made after contract signing - handover docs etc all have to be changed - retail sparkies and 'my mate said's' do not count when estimating the price. My stuff around factor is a sliding scale and can applied arbitrarily according to various factors unless I am on a particular contract.
With a domestic building contract I would think you would be working these variations open book and you should know his margin. First thing I would do is ASK THE BUILDER - why, in you opinion, the prices seem inflated by 20 odd percent. ASK THE BUILDER if he is open to you having dialogue with the sparkie. If he is like me and every other builder I know he won't give 2 Shits about sparkies and dimmers and will be happy for you to play those games, so long as he knows, because 5 other things will no doubt be affected by that and he will have to make adjustments. Bear in mind though when it goes to crap you've just allowed him to pay you $20 to have a very strong 'out' if something goes wrong.....As a project manager the hair on the back of my neck just went up reading it, because clients trying to run side projects on jobs ALWAYS ends up as a sh!t fight I have to fix.

Yeh no problems here with all that.

I wont even have access to the sparky really. And even if I did I wouldnt be comfortable trying to go in under the builder during the build. Sure what happens after the house is finished is my business but unfortunately I have no real avenue to change this during the build other than to work with the builder.

I am happy to let him do the electrical as per the specs sheet and Ill just change what I need to change later.

[GBC]

The extra/over you are talking about is seriously not a fight worth picking at this stage of the build from what I can see.

[rocktron]

Just to give you an idea- that Trader USB double GPO- I got quoted $36 for today. So your $150 quoted he must think thats for a whole new point all together including cabling as standard rate to install a new GPO is roughly $120
Explain that you only want to swap over GPO thats already on plans for USB one and that might help. Lets say $40 to buy USB GPO and $10 for normal GPO, there is no exrtra work involved from the sparkies perspective so should only cost you extra $30 + markup. If its a new GPO thats not on plans then $150 is reasonable

I am talking wholesale prices though so hopefully this helps