Author Topic: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero  (Read 10355 times)

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Offline Wortho

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Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« on: March 25, 2011, 10:44:38 AM »
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/margin-for-error-on-speeding-reduced-to-zero-20110324-1c8kp.html
Seems a bit harsh! so the ADR rules allow 10% speedo tolerance but the camera's will be set to zero! how does that work  ???

Offline D4D

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 10:47:22 AM »
We've had only 3km/h margin in VIC for a few years. Agreed it is strange given the 10% tolerance.
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Offline Adventure Guy

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2011, 11:02:04 AM »
Yes this makes me angry, the NSW government contracts Redflex a private company from the United States, for controlling their mobile speed cameras, this company has major banks in Australia like the NAB and Macquarie buying Redflex shares.

Before the East Link freeway was open in Victoria, the government had already done budget forecast on the revenue generated from the speed cameras. So they take this income into their running budget, not their surplus !!

All a very lucrative business with deceitful overtones.













Offline 2 Brutal

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2011, 12:21:33 PM »
Very painful indeed, considering my brand new BT50 is 8% out
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Offline Pipeliner

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2011, 01:00:23 PM »
From ADR 18/03

"5.3. The speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed of the vehicle (my bolding). At the test speeds specified in paragraph 5.2.5. above, there shall be the following relationship between the speed displayed (V1 ) and the true speed (V2).
0 <= (V1 - V2) <= 0.1 V2 + 4 km/h"

In other words your speedo is not allowed to under-read: at 10kph it is allowed to indicate between 10 and 15, and at 100kph it is allowed to indicate between 100 and 114.

So if your vehicle is ADR compliant it's only your fault if you get caught speeding!  However if you can prove that the speedo was underreading (when the vehicle was absolutely standard in respect of wheels, tyres, tyre pressures, axle ratios, etc) then you could probably sue the manufacturer for the value of the fine - if you think it's worth it.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 01:02:38 PM by Pipeliner »
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Offline FZJ

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2011, 02:15:08 PM »
Its the sheer volume of speed limit changes that gets me. There is a 6km strech here in Port Macquarie and it changed 6 times.50, 60 (40 for school hours) ,70, 60 , 80, 60.I kid you not.
I have given up looking at limits  and now just drive to what I consider to be safe, I have a clean record for 27 years on the road so I will take my chances.......
I dont mind going to work, its the 8 hours  i have to wait to go home again that annoys me.

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Offline Black Diamond

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 02:20:24 PM »

Before the East Link freeway was open in Victoria, the government had already done budget forecast on the revenue generated from the speed cameras. So they take this income into their running budget, not their surplus !!

What an absolute Joke that is  ???
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Offline Hairs

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 04:26:38 PM »
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/margin-for-error-on-speeding-reduced-to-zero-20110324-1c8kp.html
Seems a bit harsh! so the ADR rules allow 10% speedo tolerance but the camera's will be set to zero! how does that work  ???

Sorry Wortho, I didn't see your thread.
I find this to be a blatant grab for cash.
So we will be fined for normal tyre wear as well?
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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 06:00:56 PM »
they've tried this before, didn't happen
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Offline Jon

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2011, 07:46:37 PM »
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speeding points Seek legal advice today!

MOTORISTS have always been kept in the dark about the leeway given to drivers caught speeding, but a leaked cabinet document reveals the secret 3km/h tolerance that has been given to speeding drivers will be axed.

It will mean thousands of motorists are fined for travelling just a couple of kilometres per hour over the speed limit. This will assist the state government in their quest for more revenue to squander.

The tolerance level is a margin given to motorists who exceed the speed limit as ''a benefit of the doubt'', but the Roads and Traffic Authority has always refused to reveal the leeway, citing ''road safety issues''.

A leaked report from the budget committee of cabinet, dated December 9 last year, says the 3km/h tolerance will be removed. It says it will axe the ''internal and undisclosed tolerance as applied by the State Debt Recovery Office to digitally captured infringements as notified by the RTA''.

One senior Sydney policeman said the revised margin of error was so small that a new set of tyres or the width of a speedometer needle will land motorists on the wrong side of the law.

A spokeswoman for the RTA refused to confirm the truth and said it was a matter for the State Treasury Office. A spokesman for the Treasurer said the office enforced policies set by the RTA and the transport department.

While NSW has always fiercely guarded its right to cite "Road Safety" in a thinly disguised attempt to fill State coffers, the Victorian government revealed in 2007 that its tolerance level was 2km/h for fixed speed cameras and 3km/h for mobile speed cameras, plus a discretionary tolerance.

Australian design rules used to allow for a 10 per cent tolerance either way on car speedometers, but now the rules only allow for the tolerance above the actual travel speed. Thankfully NSW residents can rest assured that RTA staff know more about vehicle design and road safety than the combined reources of all the worlds vehicle manufacturers and the authors of various ADR publications.

The cabinet report, obtained by the Herald, also reveals that the committee endorsed the ''immediate roll-out of digital safety cameras by the Revenue and Traffic Authority to be complete by June 2011''.

The RTA is replacing red light cameras, letter boxes, street lights and Mrs Smith's pet dog Tiddleywinks with safety cameras, which can detect motorists in the next suburb, or parked, who run red lights as well as those who speed, regardless of the colour of the light, at 200 sites across the state.

About 100 of the cameras have already been installed, all of them in Sydney.


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Offline hodgefamily

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 08:15:21 PM »
It's pretty simple really, just don't speed, the speed limit is just that, the limit. I'm not saying that i'm perfect at staying at or below the limit although my 2.8 patrol helps to stop me from speeding. I don't see the problem with having so many cameras everywhere checking speed, no one should be going over it anyway, and if you are caught speeding then it's only your fault, not anyone elses, so just quit whinging and stick to the limit. The media has a hand in all the hype too. It seems there's a story every week about speed cameras. I must be getting old cause i think there's a lot of things in the new that we don't really need to know about (sorry a bit off topic). >:D

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 08:35:03 PM »
Its the sheer volume of speed limit changes that gets me. There is a 6km strech here in Port Macquarie and it changed 6 times.50, 60 (40 for school hours) ,70, 60 , 80, 60.I kid you not.
I have given up looking at limits  and now just drive to what I consider to be safe, I have a clean record for 27 years on the road so I will take my chances.......
   Ok are we driving the car paying attention to traffic around us or are we taking our eyes of the road to check speed limits I find this when I cross over into NSW more so than Qld they seem to change them up and down willy nilly  sometimes for no reason.Dosn,t make for a relaxing trip or when you get THE BILL some weeks later after you return home.TINKERA.

Offline peet

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2011, 08:38:29 PM »
As a truck driver up & down the Pacific Hwy 3 or 4 days/nights a week I can tell you that this wont bother most motorists that I follow past speed cameras as they usually slow down to about 20 ks under the limit whenever they're in cooee of a speed camera !  Its probably the same drivers that slow down to 40 in school zones at 2 o clock in the morning. VERY FRUSTRATING !!

Offline Hairs

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2011, 08:46:52 PM »
Hi Peet your right.
The one that peeves me the most is the camera at New Italy.
You'll be traveling along happily doing 100k, 500m from the camera they slow down to 70, 80 if your lucky and than speed away from it. Idiots, Frustrating Idiots. 
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Offline peet

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 09:11:12 PM »
 Yes its always fun when ive got my 60 ton B-double up to 100 kph - car overtakes just before camera - sees camera signs - slows to 80 - as its uphill ive got to change back 3 or 4 gears - truck slows to about 60 kph - half a dozen cars behind me cursing "bloody trucks" - car in front gets past camera & takes off at 100kph oblivious to swearing truckie with steam coming out of his ears !
Ah well , all in a days work - lucky ime a proffesional !

Offline hodgefamily

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2011, 09:23:23 PM »
I had a bloke going crazy at me for overtaking him at a speed camera. He slowed to 80 and i just cruised past him on 100 and guess what? no flash no bill. Those people are very annoying indeed!! ;D

I say we remove the bitumen and make all the roads dirt.

Offline MarkGU

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2011, 09:30:10 PM »
Yes its always fun when ive got my 60 ton B-double up to 100 kph - car overtakes just before camera - sees camera signs - slows to 80 - as its uphill ive got to change back 3 or 4 gears - truck slows to about 60 kph - half a dozen cars behind me cursing "bloody trucks" - car in front gets past camera & takes off at 100kph oblivious to swearing truckie with steam coming out of his ears !
Ah well , all in a days work - lucky ime a proffesional !
yeah i'm hearin' ya  :'(

lucky these clowns dont have to run a log book and have to be some where  >:(
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Offline singo-26

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2011, 09:51:14 PM »
My apologies officer I must have taken my eyes off the speedo for a second to glance at the road.
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Offline Mallory Black

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2011, 09:59:27 PM »
I have a Tom Tom GPS, the very basic one that my Dad got when he bought some Michelins for his Camry (he's a retiree of course!)

It has an excellent speed warning program and I wouldn't be without it now.

I think you can get one for about $125, very cheap insurance.
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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2011, 09:59:43 PM »
My apologies officer I must have taken my eyes off the speedo for a second to glance at the road.
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Offline GU_Thomo

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2011, 08:49:39 AM »
Isn't the speed camera system in NSW run by the Macquarie Bank owned Redflex, if so no surprise.

http://www.fireredflex.com/index.html

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Offline Heiny

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2011, 09:42:43 AM »
Not long ago I and approx 10 cars behind me were following a car on my way home from Gawler to Lyndoch and this driver was was travelling from 40 - 50km below the speed limit in a 100km zone. I and others became rather frustrated, there are only two places on this road where you can legally pass another vehicle but when we got to the passing lane the driver in front sped up to 120kmh so no one could pass then immediately slowed down again at the end of the passing lane, I became past frustrayed by this stupidity and as the next broken line came up and being in a 4x4 I could see over the crest before the idiot in front, so I  started to overtake said idiot slightly before the centre line became broken and went on my way at the speed limit, no problems (so I thought).
About one week later I get a letter in the post from  :police:, Letter says "you have been reported by a member of he public for overtaking another vehicle on a double unbroken white line but as there was no officer present we can take no action, if we recieve any further reports regarding your erratic driving that endangers other road users we will take this matter further".
So pretty p@##$d off with this f%&*#ng letter I contacted Mr  :police: and informed him of my version of occurrances and that this dob in an Aussie idiot was the driver placing everyone at risk by travelling so far under the speed limit, and asked what if another car or even a loaded truck came over a crest or around a blind corner at the speed limit or significantly faster than speed we were travelling and an unavoidable tragedy occured? Mr  :police: tells me that the driver is allowed to travel at whatever speed they are comfortable with and I am the one in the wrong. I even told him what happened when we got to the only passing lane and  :police: says that he does not believe me and that I am only trying to cause trouble.
I do not underastand this action and fear what this person may cause on our roads one day >:( >:(  :'( :'(??? ??? 
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Offline peet

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2011, 10:19:37 AM »
Truck drivers put up with this behaviour every day.Motorists travelling at 85-90 until they get to an overtaking lane & then speeding up to 100 so the truck cant get around - as soon as overtaking lane ends they slow down to 85-90.I really dont understand why they would want a truck stuck behind them for long periods of time (i know i hate it when travelling in car/camper).If they only want to travell at that speed - fine , but PLEASE let trucks get around when there is a safe opportunity ! While I dont condone it , this is one of the main reasons trucks tailgate cars - it usually bothers the car driver so much that they are happy to let the truck go at the next o/t lane. If you dont like trucks behind you,  simply slow down a bit at overtaking lanes , the truck/s will go around , everybodys happy & SAFE.

Offline kiwipete

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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2011, 02:10:55 PM »
I was always under the impression that car manafacturers allow a margine that was otimistic i.e. the speedo reads faster.  If that is true and you get pinged for 81kph then your speedo could have been on 85kph...  so you were speeding 

I see this when driving with GPS and approaching speed camera's the other drivers all seem to slow to at least 78 to 75kph to get past them whilst I pass them doing 80kph via GPS..

Which do you trust GPS or speedo?      btw my speedo has been played with as I have larger tyres and to compemsate a different speedo cog went into the G-Box...
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Re: Margin for error on speeding reduced to zero
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2011, 03:58:39 PM »
HI I have to say most Hyw Truckies are on a the whole give ya a far go but on a recent trip over the border I was very tempted to report a trucky for dangerous driving. Tailgating this couple towing a van (they were just under the speed limit)in front of us then within 1k of overtaking lane he pulls out takes on all 3 cars +van in front forcing a oncoming car to pull of the road before he could get back to his side of the road. This cowboy is a nutter still wish I had got his plate.He was still overtaking like a madman till he was out of sight.TINKERA.