Author Topic: Now bullbars under threat - survey  (Read 28512 times)

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crackacoldie

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2011, 08:33:02 PM »
TFB, ... "who?" ... what the Kiwis would call "wenkers". ...  "Look at me, I own fishing rods, but left 'em at home!"

 :cup: Love it Barry!!

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Offline theflyingbadger

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2011, 11:40:13 PM »
TFB, ... "who?" ... what the Kiwis would call "wenkers". ...  "Look at me, I own fishing rods, but left 'em at home!"

 :cup:

"fushing ruds" surely? ;D
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Offline kranky al

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2011, 08:59:20 AM »
dukhids!!!
if nissan made a prop plane using the zd30 - would you fly in it?

if fishing were easy it would be called "your mum"

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Offline pommiedic

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey - 4WD Action now running with this..
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2011, 06:14:45 PM »
The most important modification you can make to your 4WD is a bullbar. Not only does it allow you to run a winch, lights and gives you a mounting place for your UHF aerial, most importantly it protects your vehicle and the people inside it against animal strikes.

Hidden under the disguise of pedestrian safety, a minority group wants bullbars banned, and what’s worse is that the government agrees with them.

They want European regulations brought into Australia, and if these regulations (GTR9) are brought in, the aftermarket industry will not be able to make bullbars or even nudge bars comply. Bullbars will be banned. Commonsense (lacking in many government decisions lately) tells us that European regulations don’t have any place in Australia and won’t work. Our road conditions are very different. Animal strikes are a very common occurrence in Australia.

Their spin is that this will only affect new vehicles. However, we know this will eventually mean the ban of all bullbars.
4WD touring in Australia will end.

You are probably thinking adopting these regulations is so crazy and absurd that banning bullbars could never happen. Believe me, this is very real and is happening now. This will affect every 4WD owner.
Here’s how you can stop this:

Please visit takeaction.4wdaction.com.au now to submit your protest. It will take under a minute and could potentially save 4WD touring in this country.
The government only listens to one thing – how many votes they stand to lose. With the 4WD community standing together on this, they stand to lose many votes. We need to make a difference, take action and let commonsense prevail.

We NEED your response and we need you to take action today.

Together we can stop this unAustralian nonsense.

Shaun Whale
Why is the 1st Tea of the day the best?

Offline kickinback

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Like your bullbar?
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2011, 08:26:01 PM »
Have a look at this link and send the email if you want to keep your bullbar

http://takeaction.4wdaction.com.au/?q=node/2
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Offline mystq

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Re: Like your bullbar?
« Reply #80 on: January 28, 2011, 08:28:08 PM »
Done
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Offline D4D

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Re: Like your bullbar?
« Reply #81 on: January 28, 2011, 08:28:39 PM »
http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=10423
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Offline kickinback

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Re: Like your bullbar?
« Reply #82 on: January 28, 2011, 08:31:02 PM »
This isnt a survey D4 its a letter to the minister
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Offline shanegtr

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #83 on: January 28, 2011, 11:11:00 PM »
Quote
4WD touring in Australia will end.


Got to love the way 4wd action hypes this sort of thing up :laugh:. Sure banning bull bars will inconvenience the majority of 4wders, but it's not going to stop people traveling. I'm going to have a read of the proposal when I'm on nightshift and make up my own mind of what's happening from there, but from this summary ( http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/files/Pedestrian_Safety_Requirement_Summary.pdf ) it would seem to only affect new vehicles, not all of thm on the road as the likes of 4wd action would have us believe
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 11:23:00 PM by shanegtr »

Offline SteveandViv

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2011, 12:25:35 AM »
Why can't we ban the idiots that walk in front of the car  ??? From my perspective it's not realistic to have us all up here with out a bar. There will be more lives lost on country roads from animal kills than the number of pedestrians killed each year by Bars. They really have no idea in Canberra. There just moving the problem from the city to the country  ???
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Offline Barry G

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2011, 12:13:08 PM »
Assume that bull bars were banned in, say capital cities, but allowed everywhere else.  I'm betting that what would happen is that the aftermarket industry would design a system whereby the 'bar' could be removed and replaced with a skirt in about 5 minutes - e.g. using a couple of 40mm square hitch attachment points.
So, pop off the skirt, slot on the bar, put in a couple of hitch pin, plug in the winch & fog / driving / spot light wires, and you'd be off!
No doubt the devil would be in the detail, but there would also be up-side ... just imagine the savings on fuel, with mum's taxi not lugging a bull/kiddie/nanna catcher, winch and driving lights to drop the little darlings at school or get the groceries at the supermarket!
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #86 on: January 29, 2011, 12:19:44 PM »
Assume that bull bars were banned in, say capital cities, but allowed everywhere else.  I'm betting that what would happen is that the aftermarket industry would design a system whereby the 'bar' could be removed and replaced with a skirt in about 5 minutes - e.g. using a couple of 40mm square hitch attachment points.
So, pop off the skirt, slot on the bar, put in a couple of hitch pin, plug in the winch & fog / driving / spot light wires, and you'd be off!
No doubt the devil would be in the detail, but there would also be up-side ... just imagine the savings on fuel, with mum's taxi not lugging a bull/kiddie/nanna catcher, winch and driving lights to drop the little darlings at school or get the groceries at the supermarket!

Barry, Barry, Barry

Now we had this chat before.

Just damn well comply with what the industry is telling you.  Its all over.  Unsafe to leave your driveway anymore.  Dont think for godsake.

This is a warning.  If you dont stop damn well 'thinking' the 'boys' from 4wdbogan will come and get you 'Old Skool'!

 >:(
 
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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey - 4WD Action now running with this..
« Reply #87 on: January 29, 2011, 01:39:06 PM »
The most important modification you can make to your 4WD is a bullbar. Not only does it allow you to run a winch, lights and gives you a mounting place for your UHF aerial, most importantly it protects your vehicle and the people inside it against animal strikes.

Hidden under the disguise of pedestrian safety, a minority group wants bullbars banned, and what’s worse is that the government agrees with them.

They want European regulations brought into Australia, and if these regulations (GTR9) are brought in, the aftermarket industry will not be able to make bullbars or even nudge bars comply. Bullbars will be banned. Commonsense (lacking in many government decisions lately) tells us that European regulations don’t have any place in Australia and won’t work. Our road conditions are very different. Animal strikes are a very common occurrence in Australia.

Their spin is that this will only affect new vehicles. However, we know this will eventually mean the ban of all bullbars.
4WD touring in Australia will end.

You are probably thinking adopting these regulations is so crazy and absurd that banning bullbars could never happen. Believe me, this is very real and is happening now. This will affect every 4WD owner.
Here’s how you can stop this:

Please visit takeaction.4wdaction.com.au now to submit your protest. It will take under a minute and could potentially save 4WD touring in this country.
The government only listens to one thing – how many votes they stand to lose. With the 4WD community standing together on this, they stand to lose many votes. We need to make a difference, take action and let commonsense prevail.

We NEED your response and we need you to take action today.

Together we can stop this unAustralian nonsense.

Shaun Whale


Hi shaun

The standards are not about banning bullbars as much as you may wish to spin it.  They are about increasing the survivability of frontal impact.  I would have thought that a pretty "australian" thing to want to do, wouldn't you?  Looking after our mates, caring for each other.  Even if we dont know who it is we are caring about - the queensland floods kind of showed that.

Lets try and be a little balanced here shall we?

The end of 4wd touring? What rubbish.  I have travelled all over oz, in daylight and at night, in vehicles with a bullbar and those without.  Was I shaking with fear when it didn't have a bullbar - of course not. Did I modify my driving without the bar - no.  I still drove to the conditions, slowed at dawn and dusk and was more careful at night.   

"The most important modification you can make to your 4WD is a bullbar. Not only does it allow you to run a winch, lights and gives you a mounting place for your UHF aerial, most importantly it protects your vehicle and the people inside it against animal strikes."

Really?  Lets look at these individually;

1. Allows you to run a winch.  You dont need a bullbar to run a winch. You need a cradle to mount it to the chassis.  The cradle does not need to protrude outside of the vehicle and can be covered with a protective deformable case to meet the impact standard. 

2. Mount lights.  You dont need a bullbar to mount lights.  I ran 4 super oscars on my rally car and didnt need a bullbar to do it.  What could we do instead?  We could upgrade to HID headlights, have the driving lights mounted within the bumper inside the crush zone.  We could even lobby to allow the lights above the roofline.  All achievable.

3. A mounting place for your uhf aerial.  Where could we mount that?  On the roof maybe.  Off the spare wheel carrier. 

4. Protects the vehicle and occupants from animal strike.  They certainly do this.  But this can be done within the standard.  It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that to meet the standard the bar would need to be encased in a 'shell' that will meet the standard.  A smart manufacturer would throw in a spare shell with the purchase and a smart insurance company would throw in a free shell replacement with the insurance policy.

"Commonsense (lacking in many government decisions lately) tells us that European regulations don’t have any place in Australia and won’t work."

Why? They have roads, they have children, old people, drunk people, they have motorways with high speeds, they have remote areas - just like us!.  Or do we think of Paris when we think of europe. 

We have kangaroos of course so that must make a bullbar particularly "Australian". What large animals do the Europeans have?

They have wild boar, 10 species of deer from small ones to reindeers, Elk (Moose) and bears.  Bears caught my eye - at least our roos dont want to eat us after we hit them.

"We need to make a difference, take action and let commonsense prevail."

What would commonsense dictate? 

Would it be to make outlandish and silly statements that create an uprising of concern and fear amongst one particular group that is not based on reality.  Would it be to blame another group ( I will take a stab in the dark and guess you mean the pedestrian council) for the problem. 

Or would it be to embrace the concept of minimising harm to ALL Australians, whether they are driving a 4wd or not, and work with the Govt to achieve a good outcome for all.  We can have a system that protects the vehicle from animal strikes AND those unfortunate to be struck by a vehicle (whether the fault of the driver or the pedestrian).  Sure its not going to be as 'tough' looking as the bars we have today but surely thats not the driving factor is it? 

I visited the link to your letter to the minister.  I think I will pass thanks.  More than happy to have another look once you have taken the garbage out of it.

Regards

Darren

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Offline D4D

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #88 on: January 29, 2011, 02:19:14 PM »
Dazzler bugger off with your logic, this is an emotional debate only on both sides! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2011, 04:32:00 PM »
Dazzler bugger off with your logic, this is an emotional debate only on both sides! ;D ;D ;D

Sorry  :D

I do get the concerns, but lets just be honest about what they are.
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Offline 9775Andrew

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2011, 09:51:13 PM »
done it,

where's the survey / polls to keep our parks open and ditch permits to visit land we all own
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Offline mystq

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2011, 02:24:26 AM »
done it,

where's the survey / polls to keep our parks open and ditch permits to visit land we all own

So true,,,,
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Offline Alloy C/T

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2011, 08:54:02 AM »
The problem is not really about banning bullbars , its more to do about banning as our NZ friends call them "wenkers" , those city 4x4 owners who's vehicles spend 99.9% of its life nowhere close to an animal unless you count soccer mums with their kids as animals. That once a year 2-3 week trip out west with 99% of the journey on asphalt highways does not  justify the city living 4x4 needing a bullbar - 4" lift -umpteen extra lights -34" muddies etc , ,, ever stop to think how come the people who actually live in the bush- west get by without all the so called "needed extras"  , could it just be that in real life they are not needed ?

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2011, 11:07:15 AM »
The problem is not really about banning bullbars , its more to do about banning as our NZ friends call them "wenkers" , those city 4x4 owners who's vehicles spend 99.9% of its life nowhere close to an animal unless you count soccer mums with their kids as animals. That once a year 2-3 week trip out west with 99% of the journey on asphalt highways does not  justify the city living 4x4 needing a bullbar - 4" lift -umpteen extra lights -34" muddies etc , ,, ever stop to think how come the people who actually live in the bush- west get by without all the so called "needed extras"  , could it just be that in real life they are not needed ?
So true, while I intend fitting a replacement alloy bumper to my car, with combined 'nudge' bar, it is more for better approach angle on mountain tracks (and somewhere to hang a water bag) than anything else.  Those with a 'need' to do long distances at night, or who are taking their rig off road in the high country / gulf might also need all this kit - spotties / fogs  bar & winch, etc.  In reality this is about a magazine looking after its life blood (advertising) of selling ad space to toy manufacturers, who want to convince us big kids to buy their toys.
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Offline Laith

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2011, 02:19:24 PM »
Take bullbars off vehicles and then the next most dangerous thing is vehicles themselves. Then we can ban them. Then people will get hurt running to work. Maybe then we can ban running or even better, going to work.

Im glad you guys are a minority.

Offline Barry G

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2011, 02:34:06 PM »
... the next most dangerous thing is vehicles themselves. Then we can ban them. ...
Im glad you guys are a minority.

Vehicles are built to comply to an impact standard, so nobody is talking about banning them.  This is exactly the sort of BS and drivel that some of us have been pointing out.

All this is about is applying similar standards to bars on vehicles that spend 99.5% of their time running around suburban streets.

As to who is in a minority, I think that the jury might be in on that. ... After all 50% of the population don't need 'big bits' for purposes of impressing whoever.
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2011, 04:02:42 PM »
Take bullbars off vehicles and then the next most dangerous thing is vehicles themselves. Then we can ban them. Then people will get hurt running to work. Maybe then we can ban running or even better, going to work.

Im glad you guys are a minority.

HI Laith

Barry, myself and others have been trying to point out that the proposed standards are not about bullbars.  The changes will apply to every single vehicle that is registered AFTER the changes.   Its not, and cannot be, retrospective because if I buy a car today and modify it to meet the current standard then I am fine.  The bullbar debate has been ignited by the aftermarket industry (and affiliated business) because its going to cost them $$ to comply. 

No-one will have to take their bullbar off.

What will change is that future bullbars will need to meet the standard, thats all.  And the industry is not happy because the new bars will look softer from the outside and probably wont sell as well, because it will be difficult for some to get their heads around the fact that just because they cant SEE steel everywhere that the bar is still there.

The other thing that the industry is probably concerned about is the fact that the vehicle manufacturer will simply modify the substructure of the new compliant front bumper to include a winch cradle and Supplementary Frontal Impact structure (a bullbar with an external shell) and sell it as a factory accessory.

How is this anything but a win-win for everyone?.  Everyone who CURRENTLY has a bullbar can keep it.  All NEW vehicles will be safer for pedestrians (our kids/family/friends/people we dont know) and if you want the ADDED benefits of a bullbar then you can have that too.

cheers

darren

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Offline kranky al

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2011, 04:11:39 PM »
dazzler - of course this new bullbar will cost around the 3-4 k mark.  dont forget that.

im in two minds about this - i like the idea of a removable bullbar so when you are driving around the city - you dont have it in place - but when you are country driving you can easily attach it.  i dont agree that city soccer mums require full time bullbars.

however there are plenty of roo strikes where i live - and as for the dawn and dusk argument - well i drive to work at 5.05 am and drive home at 6 to get home at 6.40pm or reverse the am and pm for night shift- same as 80 odd percent of the people out here in kal who work on the mines.  every day we are on the road at the worst possible time - especially in winter.

at the old place i worked - the shift bus was written off by a roo strike - the first thing we tell the kiwis when they are new here is dont swerve - hit them front on - there are still guys who swerve and roll their vehicles - with a bullbar you feel more confident and are less likely to do this.


so yeah - mixed feelings about this issue

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Offline kranky al

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2011, 05:08:39 PM »
how about his then

if you are a city dweller - you get two options - removable bar or some new fancy super pedestrian bar

country dweller - normal bar or removable or super pedestrian - if you go for the normal bar you are not permitted to have the vehicle reside in the city

however : if the government forces me to buy a 3-4 k bar due to actions not my own - ie pedestrians not looking where they are going - then they can subsidise it down to the cost of a regular bullbar.  i wouldnt mind if 4wds were regularly jumping the kerb and hunting down poor pedestrians - but the fact of the matter is its the inattention of pedestrians crossing the road that is the issue - so why should we pay for someone elses mistake.


this is half the problem in society these days - they are getting cause and effect arse around backwards
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Offline 9775Andrew

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Re: Now bullbars under threat - survey
« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2011, 06:09:24 PM »

Quote
i wouldn't mind if 4wds were regularly jumping the kerb and hunting down poor pedestrians - but the fact of the matter is its the inattention of pedestrians crossing the road that is the issue - so why should we pay for someone elses mistake.


this is half the problem in society these days - they are getting cause and effect arse around backwards


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