Post by: DaveR on September 09, 2018, 07:18:08 AM
https://www.facebook.com/7NewsGoldCoast/videos/2166658463605060/ (https://www.facebook.com/7NewsGoldCoast/videos/2166658463605060/)
Post by: Bigfish on September 09, 2018, 08:27:11 AM
Post by: KingBilly on September 09, 2018, 08:30:58 AM
There is a bit of a targeted crack down on big wheel and suspension mods, and it is going to expand elsewhere I am told.
https://www.facebook.com/7NewsGoldCoast/videos/2166658463605060/ (https://www.facebook.com/7NewsGoldCoast/videos/2166658463605060/)
And about time. Get all the illegal idiots off the road. Will be a safer place for my family.
KB
Post by: edz on September 09, 2018, 11:32:06 AM
Standard vehicles are a lot safer for sure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaYFLb8WMGM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaYFLb8WMGM) . ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2QSogJj3ec (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2QSogJj3ec) with a professional driver and the last one after the factory modded it for the test, at 67 kph imagine it at a 100 kph with a Numpty ..
Big wheels / lift are unsafe ok ..100 kph ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnvtoTSdbvk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnvtoTSdbvk)
Not saying they are or are not needed by all or some and yes not all steerers are Drivers .. But the mods themselves arnt necessarily unsafe ..
Just the powers that be saying Give us $$$$ for a piece of paper and the big bad not allowed unsafe mods will be ok ... Hand $$$$ over Heres your piece of paper and it magicaly is now safe . ;D
By the way I prefer a stupid high lift and massive tyres ...
Giving an increase of just 2" in total... 8)
Post by: DaveR on September 09, 2018, 12:16:14 PM
They specialise in buying new utes, tricking them up with a variety of toys (about 1/2 legal) and flogging them for too much $$$.
The young blokes are lining up to buy them as well.
Post by: edz on September 09, 2018, 12:38:12 PM
Just pondering though ..
If and a BIG IF .. 10 people buy the same product toy and have it fitted to the same type of vehicle by the same company and one of them owners hands over the fist full of $$$$ to the TAX collectors for a nice piece of paper saying it is now an " approved " toy to have ..
wouldnt that make it a " TYPE APPROVED " toy for the other nine who have the exact same ?? ..
NAAAHHHH of course not .. Who am I kidding, No $$$$ for the TAX collectors coffers in that . :-*
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on September 09, 2018, 12:53:48 PM
You know every car is different.
That's why a Lovell's suspension lift, when installed by an owner, isn't approved.
If it's installed by a dealer, it is.
Even when a Dealer isn't a qualified Mechanic, or employ any, and the owner is.
I'd like that one explained.
Post by: Bigfish on September 09, 2018, 12:58:43 PM
Hey Edz, stop saying things like that. >:D >:D >:D
You know every car is different.
That's why a Lovell's suspension lift, when installed by an owner, isn't approved.
If it's installed by a dealer, it is.
Even when a Dealer isn't a qualified Mechanic, or employ any, and the owner is.
I'd like that one explained.
I also find it ludicrous that a bloke can get an gcm/gvm (whatever) increase when fitting exactly the same suspension that I have and I cannot. Absolute load of Shite
Post by: DaveR on September 09, 2018, 01:03:17 PM
I'd like that one explained.
Good luck with that 1, I think it'll sound like an episode of yes minster.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on September 09, 2018, 01:19:57 PM
I also find it ludicrous that a bloke can get an gcm/gvm (whatever) increase when fitting exactly the same suspension that I have and I cannot. Absolute load of ShiteThat's what I was referring to.
If just changing springs and shockers can upgrade a vehicle GVM, as per Edz's argument, why not a 'type approval'?
The Insurantz people knock you back, because it doesn't have an approval, as well as getting grief from Mr. Plod.
So do you improve your vehicle and drive around without insurance? As well as run the gauntlet with Mr. Plod.
Or drive around in a vehicle that is unfit for purpose, and be saddled with the result if anything happens?
There's a few 4 door Ute driver/owners out there that know exactly what I'm talking about, just as an example.
Post by: tryagain on September 09, 2018, 01:51:29 PM
Hey Edz, stop saying things like that. >:D >:D >:D
You know every car is different.
That's why a Lovell's suspension lift, when installed by an owner, isn't approved.
If it's installed by a dealer, it is.
Even when a Dealer isn't a qualified Mechanic, or employ any, and the owner is.
I'd like that one explained.
Probably because a mechanic has no training in designing suspension and then ensuring that it is installed as they intended in their design.
The gov requires that changes above their thresholds require a engineer to sign off on the mods to say they are safe, that not only includes the design but the instillation as well, why would an engineer want to sign off on DIY installations without being able too confirm if it's installed properly when it's his bacon in the line.
Post by: KingBilly on September 09, 2018, 01:57:40 PM
So do you improve your vehicle and drive around without insurance? As well as run the gauntlet with Mr. Plod.
Or drive around in a vehicle that is unfit for purpose, and be saddled with the result if anything happens?
If a vehicle off the showroom floor is “unfit for purpose” then you have bought the wrong vehicle. Simples.
KB
Post by: Bigfish on September 09, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
Probably because a mechanic has no training in designing suspension and then ensuring that it is installed as they intended in their design.
The gov requires that changes above their thresholds require a engineer to sign off on the mods to say they are safe, that not only includes the design but the instillation as well, why would an engineer want to sign off on DIY installations without being able too confirm if it's installed properly when it's his bacon in the line.
Why do we need an engineer to sign off though? Exactly the same suspension. Ya really cant stuff up a suspension install...sure , in a few cases, you might get a knock or rattle but you will easily fix that. Upper and lower bolts for shockies and springs are an easy fit. Follow up with a wheel alignment. Hardly rocket science. Another $500-$1000 for an engineers signature is crap. ..How would an engineer know if it was fitted by a fully qualified mechanic or an apprentice 2 months into his apprenticeship?
Post by: Rumpig on September 09, 2018, 03:04:34 PM
Why do we need an engineer to sign off though? Exactly the same suspension. Ya really cant stuff up a suspension install...sure , in a few cases, you might get a knock or rattle but you will easily fix that. Upper and lower bolts for shockies and springs are an easy fit. Follow up with a wheel alignment. Hardly rocket science. Another $500-$1000 for an engineers signature is crap. ..How would an engineer know if it was fitted by a fully qualified mechanic or an apprentice 2 months into his apprenticeship?from memory my suspensions mod plate only cost an extra $150 to get.
Post by: tryagain on September 09, 2018, 04:24:16 PM
Why do we need an engineer to sign off though? Exactly the same suspension. Ya really cant stuff up a suspension install...sure , in a few cases, you might get a knock or rattle but you will easily fix that. Upper and lower bolts for shockies and springs are an easy fit. Follow up with a wheel alignment. Hardly rocket science. Another $500-$1000 for an engineers signature is crap. ..How would an engineer know if it was fitted by a fully qualified mechanic or an apprentice 2 months into his apprenticeship?
The gov wants someone to hold accountable should something go wrong, would you be happy to take responsibility if you were an engineer for random people diy installing a product sight unseen, I wouldn't.
Post by: D4D on September 09, 2018, 04:24:30 PM
Post by: Bigfish on September 09, 2018, 04:50:19 PM
The gov wants someone to hold accountable should something go wrong, would you be happy to take responsibility if you were an engineer for random people diy installing a product sight unseen, I wouldn't.
We are talking about installing a set of shock absorbers and springs. A very straight forward job. Why the hell an engineer is required is beyond me. . The engineer doesnt install anything. He looks at the product, checks it is installed correctly and says $500. Think what you like but I call it bullShit that I have exactly the same product, fitted by a fully qualified mechanic but I cant claim an upgrade weight because an engineer didnt look at it...Crazy..
Post by: KingBilly on September 09, 2018, 05:36:12 PM
KB
Post by: MDS69 on September 09, 2018, 05:51:09 PM
If a vehicle off the showroom floor is “unfit for purpose” then you have bought the wrong vehicle. Simples.
KB
Do you mean to say that Reg Sprigg didn’t have 2” suspension lift, 3” body lift, F&R lockers, 35” tyres, dual batteries, solar panels, inverter for his fridge, said fridge, bull bar, driving lights, light bar, snorkel to make the first motorised crossing of the Simpson Desert.🤨🤨🤨
Post by: briann532 on September 09, 2018, 06:09:38 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a good thing?
My playdo (that's about to go) has a towing upgrade to 3 tonne. All done professionally and certified by an engineer. (If your up for a giggle, google Athol Mullens engineer) Great bloke, but wow!
It is all legit and above board with approval from RMS. If they pull me over, I smile and let them get on with checking because they won't be able to defect my car.
Let them do their job. They aren't out to "get us", just to keep unsafe vehicles off the road.
I agree with the sentiments people have expressed over what some people and or mechanics do, but that is another issue.
This is to keep the roads safe. A bit like RDT and RBT. If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
Bitchfest over,
Brian
Post by: tryagain on September 09, 2018, 06:15:40 PM
I am under the impression that the crackdown is on "illegal" modifications.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a good thing?
I guess it depends on whether or not you have illegal modifications, personally I think it's a very good thing.
Post by: DaveR on September 09, 2018, 06:36:47 PM
personally I think it's a very good thing.
X 2
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on September 09, 2018, 06:55:08 PM
If a vehicle off the showroom floor is “unfit for purpose” then you have bought the wrong vehicle. Simples.That's what I meant about the 4 door Ute reference.
KB
Although when you see Cruisers and Patrols getting bent too.....
There has to be some responsibility that has to be met by the operator too.
Post by: rags on September 09, 2018, 07:23:33 PM
Post by: GeoffA on September 09, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
I assume a mod like a catch can would also be considered an illegal modification, playing with emissions controls.
Would probably depend how it's done.
Provents are a sealed system that can be set up to maintain the original PCV in/out points.
How the captured oil is drained off may or may not be of interest....
:cheers:
Post by: duggie on September 09, 2018, 08:15:46 PM
And about time. Get all the illegal idiots off the road. Will be a safer place for my family.
KB
Careful KB , forum members may think that you wear a blue uniform .
I have a suspension lift , body lift and run on 33's . Drives better and handles better than standard .
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 06:31:19 AM
My patrol is modified........... 2.5" lift, 33" tyres and blue plated for GVM increase, Seat reduction and 4 door ute conversion.
Now, the way my limited knowledge of the issue is, "unqualified" Mr plod looks at my vehicle and deems it unsafe and issues me with a yellow sticker and that I have X amount of time to rectify and present back to said "unqualified" Mr plod to ensure the rectification has taken place (if minor).
I have no idea if there is a cost involved in the removal of the canary if you take it to the DOT inspection points, but I would assume there is, which to me seems to be revenue raising.
How and why is Mr plod "Qualified" to inspect a vehicle for defects and "deem it" to be unsafe without formal qualifications???
I'm not talking about bald tyres or a blown indicator globe, but suspension lift, tyre size, and the engineered modifications which seem to be targeted at the moment.
Post by: Bigfish on September 10, 2018, 06:59:14 AM
Careful KB , forum members may think that you wear a blue uniform .
I have a suspension lift , body lift and run on 33's . Drives better and handles better than standard .
Unless yours is illegal Duggie he wasn't referring to you....I agree with him. The number of monstrosities racing up to the Cape each year is crazy. Cops are not mechanics ...they obviously see thousands of vehicles each day and like most of us know when something sticks out as above the norm. They may issue a ticket and refer you to a mechanical inspection. They are only doing a job that has the potential to save lives.i.e....get illegal modded vehicles off the road. Mine has a 40mm lift and thousands of dollars of accessories but nothing illegal and handles bitumen and off road with ease. :cheers:
Post by: tryagain on September 10, 2018, 07:08:33 AM
My argument is, which :police: officer is qualified to ascertain that the modification I have on my vehicle is illegal ??? ???
My patrol is modified........... 2.5" lift, 33" tyres and blue plated for GVM increase, Seat reduction and 4 door ute conversion.
Now, the way my limited knowledge of the issue is, "unqualified" Mr plod looks at my vehicle and deems it unsafe and issues me with a yellow sticker and that I have X amount of time to rectify and present back to said "unqualified" Mr plod to ensure the rectification has taken place (if minor).
I have no idea if there is a cost involved in the removal of the canary if you take it to the DOT inspection points, but I would assume there is, which to me seems to be revenue raising.
How and why is Mr plod "Qualified" to inspect a vehicle for defects and "deem it" to be unsafe without formal qualifications???
I'm not talking about bald tyres or a blown indicator globe, but suspension lift, tyre size, and the engineered modifications which seem to be targeted at the moment.
It's not really that tricky, ie is the vehicle lifted more than 50mm, if yes has it been engineered and have a compliance plate? Yes then you are fine, no, you get a fine and have to rectify the issue.
They don't need any special qualifications, just need to understand the codes and how they apply.
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 07:10:45 AM
It's not really that tricky, ie is the vehicle lifted more than 50mm, if yes has it been engineered and have a compliance plate? Yes then you are fine, no, you get a fine and have to rectify the issue.
They don't need any special qualifications, just need to understand the codes and how they apply.
So with that logic, I know how to switch a light on, does that make me qualified enough to rewire your house??
Post by: Bigfish on September 10, 2018, 07:11:59 AM
So with that logic, I know how to switch a light on, does that make me qualified enough to rewire your house??
No...but you will then refer the wiring to an expert. Thats what the cops do.
Post by: #jonesy on September 10, 2018, 07:14:19 AM
The police are not certifying the mods. They are only identifying what does not comply. If you want to go outside the accepted mods you would need approval.
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 07:23:10 AM
No it doesn't. But if you flick the switch and it doesn't come on, then you are smart enough to know something is wrong.
The police are not certifying the mods. They are only identifying what does not comply. If you want to go outside the accepted mods you would need approval.
Yes, but what "training" has the officer done to "identify" the mods......looked at pictures, had a 1hr course?? That makes him/her "qualified" to issue an infringement based on what, his/her lack of knowledge??
I'm all for getting rid of the unsafe vehicles, but other than a visual check, the plods have no formal quals in this field.
A long time ago and on a previous vehicle, I was told that my winch hook fastened under the vehicle to my tow point was illegal as it protruded "below" the bullbar..........you consider that qualified!!!!
Post by: edz on September 10, 2018, 07:32:42 AM
In NSW you have to carry an Authorised copy of the Mod list with the vehicle at all times to present to the Police that pull you over and the RTA officers at a road side inspection .. Even then you can be told to go directly to an RTA Inspection station for further checks [ Happened to me ] and still got defected, even though the item the inspector defected was on the mod list with the Engineers approval. [ RTA Inspctor thought he was GOD ] that cost me another Blue slip full compliance inspection [$65 ] plus the rigmarole of being stuffed around for 4 to 5 hours to get it cleared .
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 07:39:58 AM
From the little I know, In QLD So long as you have your Blue is plate fixed and filled out with the proper details IE Authorised inspector number etc your pretty much good to go, Or they may send you to an inspection station to check up if theres been additional mods to whats on the Mod plate list ..
In NSW you have to carry an Authorised copy of the Mod list with the vehicle at all times to present to the Police that pull you over and the RTA officers at a road side inspection .. Even then you can be told to go directly to an RTA Inspection station for further checks [ Happened to me ] and still got defected, even though the item the inspector defected was on the mod list with the Engineers approval. [ RTA Inspctor thought he was GOD ] that cost me another Blue slip full compliance inspection [$65 ] plus the rigmarole of being stuffed around for 4 to 5 hours to get it cleared .
That is all fine and dandy on a blue plate mod, but non plated mods that are legal ie 2" lift or 33" tyres???
What is stopping Mr plod playing god and stickering what is legal but in HIS/HER eyes illegal??
That is why I'd like to know who, roadside, is qualified to impound/sticker a vehicle???
Post by: AJS on September 10, 2018, 07:43:31 AM
As long as they remember the primary points that's enough, they will frequently call in and get further advice.
I guess you would prefer a yearly inspection by a qualified mechanic rather than having the Police do it? :)
What alternative do you offer?
Far too many unsafe vehicles on the road, the Police are the ones out and about and it's really not that difficult to work out most of the defects.
Using the thought training you are using they are also unqualified to enforce the law not being lawyers or solicitors?
I've been defected for a "defect" which was legal. Got it cleared easily enough. Not ideal but I certainly would not use one isolated idiot having a bad day and wanting to hassle someone as a prime reason for Police not to issue defects.
Your example has me wondering though, if it was a protrusion why wouldn't it not be allowed? Did you experience that during the publicity around bull bar safety? One of the examples they used was pedestrians going under a 4WD when hit.
Post by: Pete79 on September 10, 2018, 08:33:16 AM
Call the news crews to a roadside stop and get some footage of modified modern 4wds being defected for common mods, even better if you can get a clip of a blinged up rig with bright graphics and ‘looks’ like the rigs everyone wants off the road.
All the free news coverage and Facebook posts get people talking about modifications and will make some sensible people think again about that 3” lift that they’re looking at buying for their new dual cab ute.
Pretty much job done and only cost a handful of coppers a couple of hours to do this whole PR job.
On the back of that there will be some on the force that will make it there mission to rid the roads of these killer 4wds, here’s where the great PR work above all comes undone.
1) Do they target the 80 series and GUs with 5” lift and 35/37” tyres?
2) Do they whip the tape measure out and ping all of those of us running 2” lift and 33” tyres?
If they only did the first, I think everyone would be happy, unfortunately for the next few weeks Snr Sargent Powertrip will be going around nailing as many minor defects as he possibly can and any good work done by this exercise is undone.
Post by: duggie on September 10, 2018, 08:38:13 AM
Post by: Paddler Ed on September 10, 2018, 08:44:55 AM
To whom it may concern,
I am taking the time to write to you to address some concerns I have following publicity of recent police enforcement campaigns and the damage they may do to the Queensland tourist economy.
The focus of police enforcement campaigns targeting modified vehicles that are not compliant with legislation is welcomed; however, there are many aspects in the vehicle modification codes that are in force across Australia that are inconsistent – at times, state and territory codes are different to federal ones, and with further differences between states and territories. There is even uncertainty as to whether a vehicle that is legally modified in one state is legal in another, never mind the transfer of registration for a modified (with approval plate or engineering certificate) vehicle between states.
The increasingly wide community of recreational four wheel drivers often draw on knowledge from one another, reputable suppliers and the media associated with this hobby. However, due to inconsistencies in vehicle standards between states/territories, this can lead to confusion.
Resulting from this legislative confusion, as well as rules that change (yet cannot always keep up with technology – see the LED light bar regulations for examples of legislation lagging technology), there are challenges faced by QLD road users.
However, the targeting through a strategy of enforcement rather than education is risking a negative image of the police’s work. There are concerns that the enforcement is a disproportionate response to a problem found in a minority of vehicles.
Many recreational four wheel drivers endeavour to keep their vehicles legal (to the best of their knowledge) and functional for their uses; however, due to the myriad of rules that exist, this is difficult not only for the owner, but also those enforcing the rules. The police who are often left to enforce the rules are forced to interpret rules that are not always transparent, and frequently have received minimal training in these aspects.
Further implications of this high profile campaign are the risk to the QLD tourism industry in regional areas and remote communities. Iconic areas such as Cape York and Fraser Island are both popular destinations for these drivers, bringing valuable income into the areas. A negatively perceived campaign will put people off from visiting these areas; these areas are rightly popular destinations not only for intrastate travellers, but those from interstate. In both cases these travellers are likely to bring their own vehicles which they will have spent time and money preparing for these (possibly once in a lifetime) trips.
I suspect that the wider community endorses the need to remove un-roadworthy/non-compliant vehicles, but this needs to be countered with a reasonable balance to the needs of the user. I propose the following:
1) An Australian wide standardised set of modifications adopted automatically by all states that does not apply retrospectively (as with ADRs)
2) An easily accessible platform for establishing legal modifications and the limits for those modifications to be confirmed for each vehicle. NSW has the RVD list which goes some way to this, however it is not that easy to access and use.
3) The use of an extensive education programme (not one driven on scare tactics, but on established testing and evidence) of the danger of modifications that are not approved or are outside the boundaries of modifications that do not need approval
4) A transparent pricing structure for seeking engineering approval, in the same way that there is a fixed pricing structure for Road Worthy Certificates. This will promote and encourage people who want to do the extra modifications to have them properly approved and tested, rather than a “She’ll be right” approach to modifications.
Points 3 and 4 are potentially the most difficult; the need to educate people when they believe that the modifications they are carrying out are appropriate and safe, but evidence may prove otherwise is a challenge faced by all those involved in the supply of accessories to modify vehicles. Improving access to expertise in guiding and educating those who chose to modify their vehicles is perhaps key to this.
Enforcement of laws takes many shapes; the manner that this is undertaken is the challenge. Hopefully the first stage of law enforcement is an education process of what is legal and what is not; the second stage is that of penalties
Post by: plusnq on September 10, 2018, 08:52:18 AM
I've written this elsewhere, in response to someone's poorly written letter that trots out the "it'll damage tourism, people have spent a lot of money to mod their vehicles line"
To whom it may concern,
I am taking the time to write to you to address some concerns I have following publicity of recent police enforcement campaigns and the damage they may do to the Queensland tourist economy.
The focus of police enforcement campaigns targeting modified vehicles that are not compliant with legislation is welcomed; however, there are many aspects in the vehicle modification codes that are in force across Australia that are inconsistent – at times, state and territory codes are different to federal ones, and with further differences between states and territories. There is even uncertainty as to whether a vehicle that is legally modified in one state is legal in another, never mind the transfer of registration for a modified (with approval plate or engineering certificate) vehicle between states.
The increasingly wide community of recreational four wheel drivers often draw on knowledge from one another, reputable suppliers and the media associated with this hobby. However, due to inconsistencies in vehicle standards between states/territories, this can lead to confusion.
Resulting from this legislative confusion, as well as rules that change (yet cannot always keep up with technology – see the LED light bar regulations for examples of legislation lagging technology), there are challenges faced by QLD road users.
However, the targeting through a strategy of enforcement rather than education is risking a negative image of the police’s work. There are concerns that the enforcement is a disproportionate response to a problem found in a minority of vehicles.
Many recreational four wheel drivers endeavour to keep their vehicles legal (to the best of their knowledge) and functional for their uses; however, due to the myriad of rules that exist, this is difficult not only for the owner, but also those enforcing the rules. The police who are often left to enforce the rules are forced to interpret rules that are not always transparent, and frequently have received minimal training in these aspects.
Further implications of this high profile campaign are the risk to the QLD tourism industry in regional areas and remote communities. Iconic areas such as Cape York and Fraser Island are both popular destinations for these drivers, bringing valuable income into the areas. A negatively perceived campaign will put people off from visiting these areas; these areas are rightly popular destinations not only for intrastate travellers, but those from interstate. In both cases these travellers are likely to bring their own vehicles which they will have spent time and money preparing for these (possibly once in a lifetime) trips.
I suspect that the wider community endorses the need to remove un-roadworthy/non-compliant vehicles, but this needs to be countered with a reasonable balance to the needs of the user. I propose the following:
1) An Australian wide standardised set of modifications adopted automatically by all states that does not apply retrospectively (as with ADRs)
2) An easily accessible platform for establishing legal modifications and the limits for those modifications to be confirmed for each vehicle. NSW has the RVD list which goes some way to this, however it is not that easy to access and use.
3) The use of an extensive education programme (not one driven on scare tactics, but on established testing and evidence) of the danger of modifications that are not approved or are outside the boundaries of modifications that do not need approval
4) A transparent pricing structure for seeking engineering approval, in the same way that there is a fixed pricing structure for Road Worthy Certificates. This will promote and encourage people who want to do the extra modifications to have them properly approved and tested, rather than a “She’ll be right” approach to modifications.
Points 3 and 4 are potentially the most difficult; the need to educate people when they believe that the modifications they are carrying out are appropriate and safe, but evidence may prove otherwise is a challenge faced by all those involved in the supply of accessories to modify vehicles. Improving access to expertise in guiding and educating those who chose to modify their vehicles is perhaps key to this.
Enforcement of laws takes many shapes; the manner that this is undertaken is the challenge. Hopefully the first stage of law enforcement is an education process of what is legal and what is not; the second stage is that of penalties
Seems reasonable enough. Especially the Australia wide consistency aspect 👍
Post by: Pete79 on September 10, 2018, 09:14:01 AM
4) A transparent pricing structure for seeking engineering approval, in the same way that there is a fixed pricing structure for Road Worthy Certificates. This will promote and encourage people who want to do the extra modifications to have them properly approved and tested, rather than a “She’ll be right” approach to modifications.
I was shocked at the price ranges that I was quoted when getting my blue plate for the 4 point internal roll cage and rear seat removal in my Sierra just a few weeks ago.
Apparently in QLD a blue plate with 2 codes can cost between $150 and $550 depending on who you ring (and the $550 guy wanted me to drive the vehicle to his workshop for the inspection).
Post by: KingBilly on September 10, 2018, 09:22:30 AM
I have no problem with Police checking vehicles for roadworthy , but they should be a qualified A grade mechanic before they can issue a defect . After all a A grade mechanic can not book someone for speeding , yes a mechanic can see that you are exceeding the speed limit but they are not qualified to book you .
Every vehicle on the road has a tyre placard which states the size of tyres legally able to be fitted to that vehicle. Every tyre fitted to a vehicle has the size of that tyre stamped on it. The ADR rules, available to all, clearly states the legal maximum you can increase your tyre size. Don’t think you need to be a qualified mechanic to work that out. Shit some mechanics are nothing more than oil and filter changers these days.
KB
Post by: edz on September 10, 2018, 09:58:21 AM
Further implications of this high profile campaign are the risk to the QLD tourism industry in regional areas and remote communities. Iconic areas such as Cape York and Fraser Island are both popular destinations for these drivers, bringing valuable income into the areas. A negatively perceived campaign will put people off from visiting these areas; these areas are rightly popular destinations not only for intrastate travellers, but those from interstate. In both cases these travellers are likely to bring their own vehicles which they will have spent time and money preparing for these (possibly once in a lifetime) trips.
[/quote]
Apparently already happening for some interstate visitors driving registered modded vehicles, going by the social media outbursts .[ Its on the internet so it must be true ...... or not ? ] . Some vehicles put off the road to be towed back across the border .. Family holidays ruined ..
To counter this happening, If you have a legaly registered modded vehicle from another state, that QLD rules dont / wont allow, You would need to apply for written concent from the relevent QLD agency [ Police Commissioner or main Roads from memory ] before crossing into QLD and carry the concent letter with you, to be able to drive that legal modded interstate vehicle on QLD roads ..
Pretty much bring back the need of a passport and Visa to be able to enter the State of QLD .. Yayyyy ! ;D
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 10:03:03 AM
Every vehicle on the road has a tyre placard which states the size of tyres legally able to be fitted to that vehicle. Every tyre fitted to a vehicle has the size of that tyre stamped on it. The ADR rules, available to all, clearly states the legal maximum you can increase your tyre size. Don’t think you need to be a qualified mechanic to work that out. Shit some mechanics are nothing more than oil and filter changers these days.
KB
Not that simple KB........The ADR rules are a shambles and the new national VSB14 ain't much better as individual states are blatantly ignoring it refer the 4WD QLD press release..........
Also, is Mr plod qualified is suspension and steering geometry, enough to stipulate that it is unsafe??
It is as clear as mud!!!Also, the tyre placard, like most of your documentation on your vehicle, it's a recommendation!! Same as your towing capacities....not worth the paper it's written on!
Post by: tryagain on September 10, 2018, 10:14:16 AM
Not that simple KB........The ADR rules are a shambles and the new national VSB14 ain't much better as individual states are blatantly ignoring it refer the 4WD QLD press release..........
Also, is Mr plod qualified is suspension and steering geometry, enough to stipulate that it is unsafe??
It is as clear as mud!!!Also, the tyre placard, like most of your documentation on your vehicle, it's a recommendation!! Same as your towing capacities....not worth the paper it's written on!
Yes it is, I think you are WAY over complicating what they are doing, they are not checking suspension and steering geometry, they are checking the ride height, (suspension etc) that affects the geometry and the only skill really required it to be able to read some manufacturer information and wield a tape measure. They are not making the rules up (what is and isn't safe) as they go, they are just checking if they are compliant with the existing rules.
Post by: MrCruza on September 10, 2018, 10:28:48 AM
To get the sticker removed you must present to an inspection station where the qualified people will check it out and say yay or nay.
The inspector will then let you know what you need to do to pass.
Any one feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.. :cheers:
Post by: alnjan on September 10, 2018, 10:31:26 AM
Yes it is, I think you are WAY over complicating what they are doing, they are not checking suspension and steering geometry, they are checking the ride height, (suspension etc) that affects the geometry and the only skill really required it to be able to read some manufacturer information and wield a tape measure. They are not making the rules up (what is and isn't safe) as they go, they are just checking if they are compliant with the existing rules.
Agree. You don't need to be qualified to use a tape measure and check a label or mod plate.
The one thing I wish was as easy was finding exactly what you can and can't do to you vehicle and what mods need engineering. I know it would be a lot of work to set up but how good would it be if each State Road Authority had on their website a modification site, where you select your vehicle and it come up with what mods you can do yourself, as well as what other mods can be done, including all the work needed to be done, for an engineered modification. With it all on the Authorities website it just makes the whole process so much easier right through to completion. As Police already have access to these sites they too can check your mods have been approved. Easy and simple.
Post by: alnjan on September 10, 2018, 10:33:54 AM
Doc, my understanding of this whole process is a copper may indeed look at your vehicle and decide it's illegal, and then apply a sticker. This action in itself does not automatically apply a penalty, apart from you needing to pay for a flatbed to get the vehicle to a mechanic.
To get the sticker removed you must present to an inspection station where the qualified people will check it out and say yay or nay.
The inspector will then let you know what you need to do to pass.
Any one feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.. :cheers:
In NSW if it is a Yellow Defect Notice you have a X amount of days to get the Notice lifted and can drive up to that date. If a Red Defect then it is on the tilt tray.
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 10:53:58 AM
Yes it is, I think you are WAY over complicating what they are doing, they are not checking suspension and steering geometry, they are checking the ride height, (suspension etc) that affects the geometry and the only skill really required it to be able to read some manufacturer information and wield a tape measure. They are not making the rules up (what is and isn't safe) as they go, they are just checking if they are compliant with the existing rules.
I thought suspension affected ride height...........maybe I'm wrong there........just like Mr Plod.......
Also, what are the existing rules, are they checking to VSB14, ADR or to their own figures........
Do you know what the standard ride height is of a Lada or how about a Patrol GQ or 60 series cruiser???? Doubt you have that info at hand or squirreled away in your memory, yet I very much doubt they have that info or info on ALL vehicles, and are measuring these vehicles correctly. A tape measure held to the roof to ground is NOT accurate in any shape or form!
Have no issues with proper transport inspectors doing the inspecting, I have no issues with them removing the unsafe vehicles off the road however, I feel that the average copper has absolutely no idea about 4WDs (and properly modded cars for that matter) yet are deemed "qualified" to infringe or remove a vehicle from the road based on that individuals personal view!
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 11:00:44 AM
Doc, my understanding of this whole process is a copper may indeed look at your vehicle and decide it's illegal, and then apply a sticker. This action in itself does not automatically apply a penalty, apart from you needing to pay for a flatbed to get the vehicle to a mechanic.
To get the sticker removed you must present to an inspection station where the qualified people will check it out and say yay or nay.
The inspector will then let you know what you need to do to pass.
Any one feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.. :cheers:
That's my point!! If the coppers missus ran off with a bloke in a Jeep, is that copper going to persecute every jeep on the road???
If the copper picks on me because I"m on holidays and he isn't, my holiday is ruined because I have to PROVE my innocence by going to pay to have the privilege of the DOT saying yay or nay (when I know full well I comply with all regulations) and removing the sticker.
If it is an inspector, no issue.......if it's mr plod on a bad day..........or a slow news day..........
Post by: nab on September 10, 2018, 11:06:18 AM
Post by: Bigfish on September 10, 2018, 11:23:25 AM
That's my point!! If the coppers missus ran off with a bloke in a Jeep, is that copper going to persecute every jeep on the road???
If the copper picks on me because I"m on holidays and he isn't, my holiday is ruined because I have to PROVE my innocence by going to pay to have the privilege of the DOT saying yay or nay (when I know full well I comply with all regulations) and removing the sticker.
If it is an inspector, no issue.......if it's mr plod on a bad day..........or a slow news day..........
So is your vehicle legal or not ?
Post by: edz on September 10, 2018, 11:24:16 AM
Post by: Paddler Ed on September 10, 2018, 11:33:38 AM
Do you know what the standard ride height is of a Lada or how about a Patrol GQ or 60 series cruiser???? Doubt you have that info at hand or squirreled away in your memory, yet I very much doubt they have that info or info on ALL vehicles, and are measuring these vehicles correctly. A tape measure held to the roof to ground is NOT accurate in any shape or form!
Have no issues with proper transport inspectors doing the inspecting, I have no issues with them removing the unsafe vehicles off the road however, I feel that the average copper has absolutely no idea about 4WDs (and properly modded cars for that matter) yet are deemed "qualified" to infringe or remove a vehicle from the road based on that individuals personal view!
Really easy, nearly all the information is on a system like this:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/ (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/)
There's this thing called the "Internet" and there's lots of information on there, and some of it is reputable, some of it is not. Generally if the address contains .gov.au in it, then that's the laws that will apply in Australia... :P
1985 Land Cruiser FJ62 series:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11784.pdf (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11784.pdf)
Wheel centre to wheel arch: Front 500, Rear 460mm#
Wheel sizes: 5.5x16 and 7x15, with 7.50R16 and (something I can't read, but suspect would 31x10.5R15)
Different for the Sahara:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11790.pdf (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11790.pdf)
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 11:34:20 AM
So is your vehicle legal or not ?
My vehicle is legal. 2.5" lift (as it is 3.5T it is 2" when loaded) and I run 33" tyres. I have a blue plate GVM upgrade, Blue plate seating capacity reduction and blue plate body modification all compliant in the state my vehicle is registered in. I also comply with all light placement regulations including the top of my bullbar, which is covered in the ADR for driver's vision.
I have absolutely no issues if my vehicle is inspected. If i'm pulled over roadside and I'm measured by a numpty with a grudge and a tape measure and told I'm illegal where as I then have to take time off work to PROVE my vehicle complies and is legal all because some cretin is not qualified to do so! That is the issue!!
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 11:42:24 AM
Really easy, nearly all the information is on a system like this:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/ (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/)
There's this thing called the "Internet" and there's lots of information on there, and some of it is reputable, some of it is not. Generally if the address contains .gov.au in it, then that's the laws that will apply in Australia... :P
1985 Land Cruiser FJ62 series:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11784.pdf (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11784.pdf)
Wheel centre to wheel arch: Front 500, Rear 460mm#
Wheel sizes: 5.5x16 and 7x15, with 7.50R16 and (something I can't read, but suspect would 31x10.5R15)
Different for the Sahara:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11790.pdf (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/data/pdf/11790.pdf)
Interesting a brief look.....
ST variant and above y61 patrol........no listing........
Y61 patrol beyond series 1 no listing...........
Y62 Patrol no listing.........
Yep, reputable ;D ;D
Post by: Paddler Ed on September 10, 2018, 12:05:37 PM
Interesting a brief look.....
ST variant and above y61 patrol........no listing........
Y61 patrol beyond series 1 no listing...........
Y62 Patrol no listing.........
Yep, reputable ;D ;D
Did you look at Pre or Post 1999?
Post 1999 is broken...
Just did a quick search and found something even more painful to use, http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/ (http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/)
Searching using:
Marketing Model = Patrol
Status = ALL
There's your Y62 Patrol:
http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/perl/44896_1003373_RVD_20Nov2012123203.cmd (http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/perl/44896_1003373_RVD_20Nov2012123203.cmd)
Here's the Y60 Patrol:
http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.view_app_details?sCertID=7484&sMakeModel=NISSAN+Y60+WAGON (http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.view_app_details?sCertID=7484&sMakeModel=NISSAN+Y60+WAGON)
And the Y61:
http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.view_app_details?sCertID=12482&sMakeModel=NISSAN+Y61+WAGON (http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.view_app_details?sCertID=12482&sMakeModel=NISSAN+Y61+WAGON)
Select the RVD for each one, and you'll be OK.
Now, those are the federally approved specifications and took me about 5 minutes to find on my computer (not phone)
Post by: tryagain on September 10, 2018, 12:11:39 PM
I thought suspension affected ride height...........maybe I'm wrong there........just like Mr Plod.......They do, hence check the ride height and you can tell how much a car has been raised/lowered.
Also, what are the existing rules, are they checking to VSB14, ADR or to their own figures........I haven't looked in depth but looks like VSB14, it seems to cover both ADR as well as modifications.
Do you know what the standard ride height is of a Lada or how about a Patrol GQ or 60 series cruiser???? Doubt you have that info at hand or squirreled away in your memory, yet I very much doubt they have that info or info on ALL vehicles, and are measuring these vehicles correctly. A tape measure held to the roof to ground is NOT accurate in any shape or form!The lift on my Prado when it was done, they measured to the top of the guard before and after to check the actual lift, it wouldn't be too hard for them to have a similar measurement for most cars and just compare to that.
Have no issues with proper transport inspectors doing the inspecting, I have no issues with them removing the unsafe vehicles off the road however, I feel that the average copper has absolutely no idea about 4WDs (and properly modded cars for that matter) yet are deemed "qualified" to infringe or remove a vehicle from the road based on that individuals personal view!
These aren't average coppers, they have had additional training to be able to do it, and really it would only take a few days to get your average copper up to speed to know what is what. There is nothing personal view about it, I have no idea where you have got that concept from, if it doesn't meet the standards, does it have a mod plate to say that it has been approved, yes then you are ok, no then you get fined, there is nothing subjective about it.
That's my point!! If the coppers missus ran off with a bloke in a Jeep, is that copper going to persecute every jeep on the road???
If the copper picks on me because I"m on holidays and he isn't, my holiday is ruined because I have to PROVE my innocence by going to pay to have the privilege of the DOT saying yay or nay (when I know full well I comply with all regulations) and removing the sticker.
If it is an inspector, no issue.......if it's mr plod on a bad day..........or a slow news day..........
If said :police: wanted to fine people, there would be better ways to get people that issuing incorrect defect notice's which can then all point back to him being incompetent, he would be better trumpeting up things like speeding or negligent driving that would be a lot harder for the driver to prove his innocence, and therefore the :police: incompetence, but this is all to do with an abuse of power which is a totally seprate issue alltogether.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 10, 2018, 12:12:34 PM
My vehicle is legal. 2.5" lift (as it is 3.5T it is 2" when loaded) and I run 33" tyres. I have a blue plate GVM upgrade, Blue plate seating capacity reduction and blue plate body modification all compliant in the state my vehicle is registered in. I also comply with all light placement regulations including the top of my bullbar, which is covered in the ADR for driver's vision.
I have absolutely no issues if my vehicle is inspected. If i'm pulled over roadside and I'm measured by a numpty with a grudge and a tape measure and told I'm illegal where as I then have to take time off work to PROVE my vehicle complies and is legal all because some cretin is not qualified to do so! That is the issue!!
Buddy
A. you're telling me you are legal
B. lets be realistic what do you think is actually going to happen at a roadside stop, i will tell you for a professionally looking modified vehicle. They are going to look at your car and go 'that is a little different" you are then going to go "thanks here are the blue plates" and then they are going to go "see you later have a nice day" if you can show me a photo of one cop with a tape measure out or even bending over to read the size of a tyre from the side wall i will personally ring you to apologise
C. They are going to do this exercise maybe once a month so your chances of being pulled over are remote at best
Honestly who gives a crap if they are trained or not. If they get some idiot with a GQ patrol lifted 4 inches, running 35's that are sticking 4 inches out from the guards and can barley stop to get the inspection done as the brakes lines were never lengthened, and when they ask for some paperwork he will show an IOU from his mate Bob who did the lift with some spring spaces and a couple of body blocks that look like they were made from VB cans well guess what...............................I say the police are doing a fantastic job and you have absolutely nothing to worry about
Post by: Pete79 on September 10, 2018, 12:14:46 PM
Really easy, nearly all the information is on a system like this:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/ (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/)
Interested to know how they measure the overall height in those documents.
For one of my vehicles their numbers don't match up at all.
The overall height is physically impossible to achieve with the center of tyre to wheel arch dimensions they have listed.
Post by: Bigfish on September 10, 2018, 12:15:48 PM
My vehicle is legal. 2.5" lift (as it is 3.5T it is 2" when loaded) and I run 33" tyres. I have a blue plate GVM upgrade, Blue plate seating capacity reduction and blue plate body modification all compliant in the state my vehicle is registered in. I also comply with all light placement regulations including the top of my bullbar, which is covered in the ADR for driver's vision.
I have absolutely no issues if my vehicle is inspected. If i'm pulled over roadside and I'm measured by a numpty with a grudge and a tape measure and told I'm illegal where as I then have to take time off work to PROVE my vehicle complies and is legal all because some cretin is not qualified to do so! That is the issue!!
I dont understand why your getting so concerned about it. I have found that when dealing with cops, I treat them how I want to be treated. Never had an issue. Commonsense and civility go a long way. Not all cops are qualified psychologists or human behaviour experts but every copper spends a great deal of time attending domestic disputes. Maybe yearly inspections will sort out the chaff from the wheat and no one can whinge about getting pinged for an illegal vehicle. I know I wouldnt be impressed if some tool in an illegally modified vehicle hurt/killed one of my family members. A lot of the wanky looking modified 4wd,s dont need the extra height or tyre width for cruising around Sydney....
Post by: D4D on September 10, 2018, 12:36:08 PM
Post by: Bigfish on September 10, 2018, 01:00:05 PM
Interesting https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf (https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf)
(Photochopped from above bulletin)
I think that this is a fair deal for all...Doesnt mean that it will happen though.
We therefore recommend:
?
Any vehicle owner who has been issued any defect or infringement notice where your
vehicle has a maximum combination lift of 25mm tyres, and 50mm suspension fitted
with ESC, to write to the “Officer In Charge” of the police station where the notice was
issued, and ask for the infringement to be reviewed given TMR website gave guidance
this was acceptable and has been updated without informing the general public (see
reference above).
?
Any vehicle owner who has been issued any defect or infringement notice where your
vehicle has a suspension lift up to 75mm, to write to the “Officer In Charge” of the
police station where the notice was issued, and ask for the infringement to be reviewed
given TMR is about to release new LS9/LS10 modification standards, allowing this lift.
While you may have been issued a ticket where LS9/LS10 is currently 50mm maximum
at the time, the fact it is due to change should have been considered / implemented
before commencing “Operation Lift”; it would be unfair to release this after a defect.
?
Any vehicle owner who believes they were incorrectly issued an infringement notice for
other reasons, i.e. change to other TMR website, we recommend contacting TMR and
re-validating the infringement is issued correctly.
?
For all vehicle owners who knowingly drove a vehicle with modifications over the limit,
pay your fine.
Post by: KingBilly on September 10, 2018, 01:13:18 PM
Careful KB , forum members may think that you wear a blue uniform .
I have a suspension lift , body lift and run on 33's . Drives better and handles better than standard .
Think you are getting me confused with somebody else mate. I hate blue shirts.
Not sure a body lift improves ride or handling.
KB
Post by: Bird on September 10, 2018, 01:45:14 PM
Quote from: Bigfish
I have found that when dealing with cops, I treat them how I want to be treated.try that when you ride a bike.
(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--NqbKOJPy--/b_rgb:fffffe,t_Heather%20Preview/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1520031386/production/designs/2414966_0.jpg)
Post by: Pete79 on September 10, 2018, 02:17:47 PM
Interesting https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf (https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf)
We all know the organisation is run by jokers these days, but I especially like this one....
"We need a national scheme where a consumer can purchase a new vehicle in Perth, ship it to
Adelaide for engine modifications, send on to Melbourne for motor work, pop it over to Sydney
for suspension and wheels, then walk into a Queensland TMR office with all the certifications
and get the vehicle registered; this is the 21st century."
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I can't say that those few pages justify the extortionate fees 4wdQLD want to charge clubs these days, but at least it looks like they've got off their butts and done something for their long suffering members on this one.
Post by: Bigfish on September 10, 2018, 02:18:15 PM
try that when you ride a bike.
(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--NqbKOJPy--/b_rgb:fffffe,t_Heather%20Preview/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1520031386/production/designs/2414966_0.jpg)
Mr Bird. I ride a Harley Fatboy and have had a bike licence for 40+ years. I,ve been pulled over ( especially during the bullShit that went on here a while ago), even on my not too quiet fatty and have not had an issue. Plenty have, thats for sure. As I said I treat em as they treat me.
Post by: doc evil on September 10, 2018, 02:26:09 PM
Mr Bird. I ride a Harley Fatboy and have had a bike licence for 40+ years. I,ve been pulled over ( especially during the bullShit that went on here a while ago), even on my not too quiet fatty and have not had an issue. Plenty have, thats for sure. As I said I treat em as they treat me.
Tongue in cheeks here BF......
Modified wank factor exhaust...........no different to modified 4WD's.................... ;D ;D :angel: :police:
Post by: Bigfish on September 10, 2018, 04:02:21 PM
Tongue in cheeks here BF......
Modified wank factor exhaust...........no different to modified 4WD's.................... ;D ;D :angel: :police:
Totally agree. However my mods on my bike are legal and were done for comfort and reliability. The exhaust is anything but wank factor as I am not a great fan of drawing attention to ones self.. Couldn't put pannier bags on with original exhaust. Got a couple of dolts around me with the loud exhaust and the "must do 60kph in 2 seconds and let people know I,m here"....real wankers. However as I said, I have been pulled over and noise hasn't been an issue. It is a bit louder than stock. I used to have a dislike of cops when I was younger. However with age comes wisdom. They do a great job generally and all the money in the world would not see me doing it. Helping pull victims out of smashed cars, being spat on by drug fueled morons, shot at whilst at a domestic violence call. When I have been stopped I usually spend a while yacking to them . What Shits me is the hypocrites that put Shit on the cops but when life treats them a foul blow they turn straight to the cops for help!
The illegal mods saga is akin to the overweight caravan issues. Heaps know they are overweight but just ignore it. So be it...but dont sook if you are caught and be prepared for the consequences if you hurt or kill someone as a result of your mods or excessive weight...Thats all I,m saying.
Post by: Isuzumu on September 10, 2018, 05:22:04 PM
Cause you can not fit a lift kit to a vehicle that has ESC. It's stated on the TMR web site under FAQs. But you are allowed to increase tyre size by 50mm. Our old D.Max would have not made it passed the inspection station lol.
Oh I do not think the Police would be writing out the infringement notice as they have TMR inspectors with them.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 10, 2018, 05:42:29 PM
Post by: MDS69 on September 10, 2018, 06:10:47 PM
Queensland Police Services have completed a special training event “aimed at identifying four-wheel drives which have been illegally modified, comprising (sic) the stability of the vehicle and subsequent safety of all road-users.”
The training, which finished on Wednesday last week, comprised a day of theoretical training followed by two days centered on practical training.
“Approximately 35 QPS officers from across the South East Region will work in conjunction with 10 Transport and Main Roads inspectors to stage static and mobile interception sites across the Gold Coast District.”
https://mr4x4.com.au/police-now-targeting-modified-4x4/
Post by: KingBilly on September 10, 2018, 06:19:24 PM
With all the hysteria I will leave this here
Queensland Police Services have completed a special training event “aimed at identifying four-wheel drives which have been illegally modified, comprising (sic) the stability of the vehicle and subsequent safety of all road-users.”
The training, which finished on Wednesday last week, comprised a day of theoretical training followed by two days centered on practical training.
“Approximately 35 QPS officers from across the South East Region will work in conjunction with 10 Transport and Main Roads inspectors to stage static and mobile interception sites across the Gold Coast District.”
https://mr4x4.com.au/police-now-targeting-modified-4x4/
Seriously, why are you letting facts get in the way of a good cop bashing conspiracy theory arguement?
KB
Post by: Hoyks on September 10, 2018, 06:34:37 PM
What I think they TMR and Police are looking for is 4WDs that have ESC and have lift kits, body kits and bigger tyres.
Cause you can not fit a lift kit to a vehicle that has ESC. It's stated on the TMR web site under FAQs. But you are allowed to increase tyre size by 50mm.
And you can go up to 50mm with tyres/body blocks/suspension, its not one or the other. Anymore and you have to start employing an engineer to run the numbers and probably do some track testing.
Quote
2.6 MODIFICATIONS TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ESC
To remain within the scope of VSB14, a vehicle fitted with ESC and modified with a suspension lift up to 50mm beyond the original manufacturer’s standard height can be carried out under the basic modification without certification guidelines as listed in Section 4.
Vehicle modifications with a suspension lift above 50mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) are required to meet this guideline and Code LS7 or Code LS8 where applicable.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications/NCOP/20sectionlssuspensionsteering.pdf? (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications/NCOP/20sectionlssuspensionsteering.pdf?)
Post by: MrCruza on September 10, 2018, 06:53:08 PM
4WD QLD Press Release (https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf)
Post by: Nomad on September 10, 2018, 07:13:31 PM
This is a press release from 4WD QLD released today regarding these issues. Gives some background into what's happened and what they (4WD QLD)are trying to address on your behalf.
4WD QLD Press Release (https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf)
Thats the most effective explanation and argument I have read on the whole topic. I would recommend anyone who maybe affected by "Operation Lift" keep and refer to a copy of that Press Release. Thanks MrCruza.
Post by: MrCruza on September 10, 2018, 07:16:24 PM
Thats the most effective explanation and argument I have read on the whole topic. I would recommend anyone who maybe affected by "Operation Lift" keep and refer to a copy of that Press Release. Thanks MrCruza.
Cheers Nomad.
Everyone should support (join ;D) their local 4WD club, most of whom are affiliated with 4WD QLD. It's the only real voice we have.
Post by: Isuzumu on September 10, 2018, 07:16:36 PM
They are looking as there are many are over the magic 50mm, but 90% never bothered to get the mod plate to say its good. They don't get the mod plate because its done on the cheap and engineers cost $$. Because they have done it on the cheap they also go for wheel spacers and extended shackles to give them the look they want, but its also a fair bet that they aren't spending the $$ on maintenance that they probably should.
And you can go up to 50mm with tyres/body blocks/suspension, its not one or the other. Anymore and you have to start employing an engineer to run the numbers and probably do some track testing.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications/NCOP/20sectionlssuspensionsteering.pdf? (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications/NCOP/20sectionlssuspensionsteering.pdf?)
That looks like it was in 2015, think they may have just changed it to Minor Modification-VSI G19.9
Post by: alnjan on September 10, 2018, 07:42:49 PM
This is a press release from 4WD QLD released today regarding these issues. Gives some background into what's happened and what they (4WD QLD)are trying to address on your behalf.
4WD QLD Press Release (https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf)
Don't know about the 4WD Queensland, but after the handling of this matter and other 4wd related matters involving 4WD NSW, they are pretentious bunch of back slappers that achieve absolutely sweet stuff all. On the subject of raising 4wds back whenever it was, even 4WD Australia and all the combined 4WD State groups had very little to do with anything. If it wasn't for the AAAA being involved we would be stuck with bog stock 4wds.
Post by: tryagain on September 10, 2018, 07:52:32 PM
This is a press release from 4WD QLD released today regarding these issues. Gives some background into what's happened and what they (4WD QLD)are trying to address on your behalf.
4WD QLD Press Release (https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf)
4wd Qld looks like it could do with a lesson in brevity, seriously how many people do they expect to read an 8 page press release, especially when the first couple of pages are verging on grandstanding. I am not trying to have a go at them as an organisation but if they are wanting to change people's minds they need to work on their delivery.
Post by: Rumpig on September 10, 2018, 08:04:15 PM
Post by: GBC on September 10, 2018, 08:18:38 PM
Thats the most effective explanation and argument I have read on the whole topic. I would recommend anyone who maybe affected by "Operation Lift" keep and refer to a copy of that Press Release. Thanks MrCruza.
Any vehicle shown on the telly would most definitely be in the “shut up and pay the fine” group. After all of the whinging 4wd Qld have basically agreed with the law and ratified the actions of the police.
Post by: tryagain on September 10, 2018, 08:23:09 PM
Why would they bother having such a blitz on The Goldy, they should be hanging out at Glasshouse Mountains, Bribie or Teewah and even Plunkett Reserve (where they ilkegally drive) if they want to really put a dint in illegal vehicles.
You might be surprised how many are modified more for looks rather than performance and rarely leave the blacktop, but I wouldn't be surprised if they show up at a few of the above-mentioned places as well.
Post by: Brodie Tas on September 10, 2018, 08:48:40 PM
Post by: Rumpig on September 10, 2018, 08:51:10 PM
You might be surprised how many are modified more for looks rather than performance and rarely leave the blacktop, but I wouldn't be surprised if they show up at a few of the above-mentioned places as well.yeah wasn't really meaning they won't get thier fair share of vehicles on The Goldy, just reckon they'd get more dangerously modded vehicles off the road by visiting those other locations.
Post by: Pete79 on September 10, 2018, 09:08:30 PM
Why would they bother having such a blitz on The Goldy, they should be hanging out at Glasshouse Mountains, Bribie or Teewah and even Plunkett Reserve (where they ilkegally drive) if they want to really put a dint in illegal vehicles.And we’re back to the PR thing....
They ping a few new model Ford Rangers with too much lift and wheels hanging out past the guards and they get a whole bunch of threads/chats just like this one going on across all platforms that 4wd enthusiasts use and everyone gets all fired up.
If the strongly worded opinions of your peers can help convince you that you shouldn’t do that modification or get the one you already have engineered and plated properly, then those 35 odd trained officers have just had a massive reach across the state/country without even having to leave the Gold Coast.
I’d take a stab in the dark and say there’s probably quite a few poser dual cab utes on the Goldie these days that would never risk getting damaged on proper tracks anyway.
While the rest of us are just hoping there’s enough posers to keep the coppers busy down there and they don’t feel like coming up here harassing the rest of us normal people... ;D
PS,
Note the smiley face at the end there.....
Post by: plusnq on September 10, 2018, 09:29:17 PM
yeah wasn't really meaning they won't get thier fair share of vehicles on The Goldy, just reckon they'd get more dangerously modded vehicles off the road by visiting those other locations.
Probably right there Mal. Not sure the Goldie is the new Mansfield. 😂 I was at the local tyre shop this morning where it was all they talked about. They believed there is a dealerdown there selling lifted (illegal) late model utes second hand and making a motza. Their thoughts were that it was to discourage young guys from buying or modifying similarly. Not so sure myself as I’d think DOT would get involved at the dealer level first surely.
Post by: MDS69 on September 10, 2018, 09:39:18 PM
You might be surprised how many are modified more for looks rather than performance and rarely leave the blacktop, but I wouldn't be surprised if they show up at a few of the above-mentioned places as well.
A bloke at work just purchased a 2015 BT50 from the original owner. The original owner fitted 3” suspension lift, suspension spacers, 35” mud tyres with a wider outside the guards offset, winch bar, light bar, LED driving lights, UHF antenna with no radio, roof basket with high lift jack and side awning. Never been off road. When the new owner opened the awning bag the instructions and poles fell out, never used.
Post by: MDS69 on September 10, 2018, 09:42:57 PM
Seriously, why are you letting facts get in the way of a good cop bashing conspiracy theory arguement?
KB
sorry my bad
Post by: Paddler Ed on September 10, 2018, 10:03:52 PM
There's a reason why the Land Cruiser is running 7.50R16s and not the 33x12.5R15s that were on it when we got it. Whilst it looked great, it was a prick to park and drive with no power steering... 7.50R16s are going to get replaced in time with 235/85R16s as I don't want to go wider, but the height is pretty good.
Post by: Luke_D on September 10, 2018, 10:31:17 PM
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on September 10, 2018, 10:57:27 PM
There was a craze earlier this year down the Gold Coast where a lot of young guys were getting 3” lift in the front and leaving rear stock to create the Trophy Truck look. Hopefully this all dies down soon and more uniform, clear and sensible laws throughout Australia can be achieved.
If they're higher at the front than rear, that's a defect straight up. Gives the B.I.B. a reason to look more closely at what else has been done.
Post by: BBull on September 11, 2018, 05:38:17 AM
A bloke at work just purchased a 2015 BT50 from the original owner. The original owner fitted 3” suspension lift, suspension spacers, 35” mud tyres with a wider outside the guards offset, winch bar, light bar, LED driving lights, UHF antenna with no radio, roof basket with high lift jack and side awning. Never been off road. When the new owner opened the awning bag the instructions and poles fell out, never used.I wonder how it past the roadworthy then for to transfer?
That's another issue that needs to be resolved.
Post by: GBC on September 11, 2018, 06:01:58 AM
Why would they bother having such a blitz on The Goldy, they should be hanging out at Glasshouse Mountains, Bribie or Teewah and even Plunkett Reserve (where they ilkegally drive) if they want to really put a dint in illegal vehicles.Back in the 90’s they knew when every club event was on at LCMP and regularly spread the net that way. I haven’t ever seen or heard of them at teewah but I’ve seen them twice at inskip doing compliance. I also got weighed at 2.00 am at Boondall - whole northbound highway getting done for RBT/compliance. I was towing a boat to 1770 and they weighed my rear and boat axles, had a walk around and let me go. Plenty of 4wd’s with HID/LED inserts parked up. Those things are basically a beacon. The other time was similar middle of the night, whole highway setup at Benaraby, Gladstone.
They get around a bit.
Post by: Bigfish on September 11, 2018, 06:42:29 AM
This might be getting a bit of track but what if there was like special interest plates for the bigger 4wds? Keeps them of the road a bit, i do have a big 4wd and its those have 6inchs of lift no money has been spared upgraded brakes etc. No i dont drive it everyday and when i drive it i drive it no faster then 90 on a highway and i drive it slow around town, i can see why people want them of the road when they have been lifted on the cheap and people drive them flat out. I guess what im saying maybe have a option for people doing the right thing.[/b]
There is an option Brodie...everyone should be doing it....just keep it legal. Unfortunately the roads are getting more congested every day. Long weekends, holidays and normal weekends can be a nightmare on our roads. The more vehicles that are legal, safe and roadworthy can only be a good thing. I,ve lost mates due to road accidents. You dont need a tough looking 4wd nowadays to get out and enjoy the bush. All the state emergency vehicles, telstra remote vehicles, power and water vehicles, cops and many other govt departments have basically stock vehicles with the addition of a bullbar and radio and all go to remote areas most people will never get to. They do it safely and reliably without 35 inch tyres and 4 inch lift.
Post by: Aaron Schubert on September 11, 2018, 08:01:59 AM
Every vehicle on the road has a tyre placard which states the size of tyres legally able to be fitted to that vehicle. Every tyre fitted to a vehicle has the size of that tyre stamped on it. The ADR rules, available to all, clearly states the legal maximum you can increase your tyre size. Don’t think you need to be a qualified mechanic to work that out. Shit some mechanics are nothing more than oil and filter changers these days.
KB
The placard is not necessarily an indication of how bigger tyre you can run. You are allowed to go 50mm bigger than the largest tyre in your model range. If a higher spec vehicle in your model has larger tyres than your vehicle, but only cosmetic changes (nothing to suspension, driveline, brakes etc) you can go 50mm beyond that.
I've been trying to find information about ESC vehicles - can you definitively tell me whether you can run bigger tyres on vehicles with ESC? It's as clear as mud to me.
Aaron
Post by: GBC on September 11, 2018, 09:26:43 AM
The placard is not necessarily an indication of how bigger tyre you can run. You are allowed to go 50mm bigger than the largest tyre in your model range. If a higher spec vehicle in your model has larger tyres than your vehicle, but only cosmetic changes (nothing to suspension, driveline, brakes etc) you can go 50mm beyond that.
I've been trying to find information about ESC vehicles - can you definitively tell me whether you can run bigger tyres on vehicles with ESC? It's as clear as mud to me.
Aaron
ESC vehicles can have a 50mm lift of either tyres, suspension or blocks but not a combination thereof before needing to be assessed and certified. Well for any state signed up to the NCOP which is most of them.
Post by: Beachman on September 11, 2018, 09:53:50 AM
Why would they bother having such a blitz on The Goldy, they should be hanging out at Glasshouse Mountains, Bribie or Teewah and even Plunkett Reserve (where they ilkegally drive) if they want to really put a dint in illegal vehicles.
I saw something come through Facebook yesterday and apparently the cops did a blitz in the Glasshouse Mountains on Sunday and got a fair share of illegally raised 4WD's plus a number of unregistered 4WD's & Bikes. I've only been to Glasshouse a couple of times, but it's a magnet for older Patrols/Hilux's which require a step ladder to get in.
Post by: duggie on September 11, 2018, 10:15:28 AM
It would be interesting to see how this measurement is applied ,
How does one get the wheel centre accurate with a tape measure ?
If vehicle is fitted with factory flares , where do they measure the top of wheel arch opening. Flare or mudguard ?
Post by: Pete79 on September 11, 2018, 10:37:36 AM
Measurement of height rule for a GQ Nissan Partol Wagon : Vertical measurement wheel centre to top of wheel arch opening at unladen mass.What about JK wranglers...
It would be interesting to see how this measurement is applied ,
How does one get the wheel centre accurate with a tape measure ?
If vehicle is fitted with factory flares , where do they measure the top of wheel arch opening. Flare or mudguard ?
Get a stock standard JK and fit a set of completely legal after market flat flares and the center of hub to guard dimension is now about 3.5” bigger.
That stock car must be illegal now right?
Post by: KingBilly on September 11, 2018, 10:58:07 AM
This is a press release from 4WD QLD released today regarding these issues. Gives some background into what's happened and what they (4WD QLD)are trying to address on your behalf.
4WD QLD Press Release (https://www.4wdqld.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf)
Just spent some time reading this press release. Lots of misinformation in it. Be wary of some advice contained within it.
KB
Post by: Rumpig on September 11, 2018, 11:21:22 AM
I saw something come through Facebook yesterday and apparently the cops did a blitz in the Glasshouse Mountains on Sunday and got a fair share of illegally raised 4WD's plus a number of unregistered 4WD's & Bikes. I've only been to Glasshouse a couple of times, but it's a magnet for older Patrols/Hilux's which require a step ladder to get in.my wife was telling me lastnight that a chick at her work went down The Goldy with her boyfriend on the weekend to take thier boat out fishing...they had a check going on at the boat ramp that they went to (don’t know which it was), everything was weighed and thier boat found to be 100kg over thier limit, so it had to go home on a tilt tray apparently.
Post by: Aaron Schubert on September 11, 2018, 12:17:00 PM
ESC vehicles can have a 50mm lift of either tyres, suspension or blocks but not a combination thereof before needing to be assessed and certified. Well for any state signed up to the NCOP which is most of them.
That's what I have heard. I can't see the difference between a 50mm suspension lift and a 25mm tyre/25mm suspension lift to justify it though.
What happens if you have an approved GVM kit, which has larger tyres on the placard, and also lifts the vehicle by about 25m? Still legal?
Aaron
Post by: Bird on September 11, 2018, 12:25:53 PM
That's what I have heard. I can't see the difference between a 50mm suspension lift and a 25mm tyre/25mm suspension lift to justify it though.or portal axles
What happens if you have an approved GVM kit, which has larger tyres on the placard, and also lifts the vehicle by about 25m? Still legal?
Aaron
Post by: GBC on September 11, 2018, 12:28:59 PM
That's what I have heard. I can't see the difference between a 50mm suspension lift and a 25mm tyre/25mm suspension lift to justify it though.
What happens if you have an approved GVM kit, which has larger tyres on the placard, and also lifts the vehicle by about 25m? Still legal?
Aaron
Yes, because it is placarded. That clause in the NCOP only states how far you can go before needing to get your car assessed. Quite often it is no big deal to get it assessed and plated as you have done, but people just don't bother.
Post by: Steffo1 on September 11, 2018, 12:34:01 PM
my wife was telling me lastnight that a chick at her work went down The Goldy with her boyfriend on the weekend to take thier boat out fishing...they had a check going on at the boat ramp that they went to (don’t know which it was), everything was weighed and thier boat found to be 100kg over thier limit, so it had to go home on a tilt tray apparently.
Must be a largish vessel or a small tug. My 6 metre Sportfish came in around 2.3 tonne, fully loaded.
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on September 11, 2018, 12:37:46 PM
Post by: tryagain on September 11, 2018, 01:28:42 PM
Hi Gents, So are 265 x 16 ATs tires and a 50mm coil spring lift that may have sagged a bit after 4 years, with no body lift is that going to be legal on my 1990 80 series, It must be close as my spedo is still 4ks reading out as I have to be doing 104 to be doing 100ks by Gps,with new tires and 105 or 6 if the tires are half worn out, Thanks Craig
Suspension lift should be ok, what is standard tyre size and are your 265 x??? 16 o just straight 265 x 16
Post by: Steffo1 on September 11, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
Hi Gents, So are 265 x 16 ATs tires and a 50mm coil spring lift that may have sagged a bit after 4 years, with no body lift is that going to be legal on my 1990 80 series, It must be close as my spedo is still 4ks reading out as I have to be doing 104 to be doing 100ks by Gps,with new tires and 105 or 6 if the tires are half worn out, Thanks Craig
Craig, I reckon your 80 would have the same tyre rating as my old 'tilley. This is my placard. No profile dimension mentioned so, should that even be taken into account?
A real bureaucratic mish mash really.
Steve
Post by: edz on September 11, 2018, 02:30:47 PM
" in short a 7.50R16 is about 31.64 inch and a 235/85/16 is about 31.72 inch, pretty much the same theoretically "
Whats the side wall ratio CT " 265 X ?? X R 16
https://tiresize.com/comparison/ (https://tiresize.com/comparison/)
Post by: Beachman on September 11, 2018, 02:45:19 PM
Must be a largish vessel or a small tug. My 6 metre Sportfish came in around 2.3 tonne, fully loaded.
Maybe the boat is on a trailer that wasn't designed/registered for the weight of a the boat? IE: The trailer can carry up to 1200 kgs and the boat weighs 1300kgs.
Post by: Aaron Schubert on September 11, 2018, 03:13:33 PM
Yes, because it is placarded. That clause in the NCOP only states how far you can go before needing to get your car assessed. Quite often it is no big deal to get it assessed and plated as you have done, but people just don't bother.
Cheers for the information. The ironic thing is that I only got it signed off through ARB because of the GVM upgrade. The original plan was just to fit bigger tyres and their 30mm suspension kit, staying within the 50mm maximum roof height increase. It was only because of the paperwork/engineering side of the GVM upgrade (the kit is exactly the same) that it got signed off.
Aaron
Post by: GBC on September 11, 2018, 03:47:35 PM
Hi Gents, So are 265 x 16 ATs tires and a 50mm coil spring lift that may have sagged a bit after 4 years, with no body lift is that going to be legal on my 1990 80 series, It must be close as my spedo is still 4ks reading out as I have to be doing 104 to be doing 100ks by Gps,with new tires and 105 or 6 if the tires are half worn out, Thanks CraigYou are fine Craig. No VSC and no IFS you get 75mm in combination.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/G19.pdf?la=en (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/G19.pdf?la=en)
Post by: PWE on September 11, 2018, 05:21:04 PM
Post by: MDS69 on September 11, 2018, 05:40:21 PM
I wonder how it past the roadworthy then for to transfer?
That's another issue that needs to be resolved.
NSW don’t require rego inspections for the first 5 years of a new vehicle.
Post by: briann532 on September 11, 2018, 05:51:40 PM
So with that logic, I know how to switch a light on, does that make me qualified enough to rewire your house??
Yep, In Sydney it does!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D
Back in my box!
Post by: Bird on September 11, 2018, 06:18:18 PM
Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..
Post by: Rumpig on September 11, 2018, 06:31:15 PM
Must be a largish vessel or a small tug. My 6 metre Sportfish came in around 2.3 tonne, fully loaded.I don't think the boat is that big (if it's the one I have pics of them fishing on previously), so reckon the tug is on the smaller side or like Beachman said, maybe trailer not up to the task....when I see the chick next I'll certainly be quizzing her more on what the go was.
Post by: Steffo1 on September 11, 2018, 06:32:32 PM
Maybe the boat is on a trailer that wasn't designed/registered for the weight of a the boat? IE: The trailer can carry up to 1200 kgs and the boat weighs 1300kgs.If that's the reason, a fair decision then.
Post by: driordon on September 11, 2018, 09:12:28 PM
ESC vehicles can have a 50mm lift of either tyres, suspension or blocks but not a combination thereof before needing to be assessed and certified. Well for any state signed up to the NCOP which is most of them.
No not in Qld, this is where the confusion is coming in because they are now referring to the Qld code of practice instead of the national code. It's all in the wording a vehicle without VSC is considered a vehicle lift, a vehicle with VSC its called a suspension lift and larger tyres would require engineer approval.
The following information provides some general guidance about raising a vehicle’s height
Without ESC-
A vehicle lift up to and including 75mm combining both suspension lift and tyre diameter increase (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm) is acceptable under self-certification.
A vehicle lift between 76mm and 125mm inclusive, combining a suspension lift, a tyre diameter increase and a body lift (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body lift 50mm) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
With ESC
A suspension lift up to and including 50mm is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift over 50 mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
I don't believe it has anything to do with the height of the vehicle but more the operation of the VSC as VSC work by applying brake pressure to the wheel that requires it, obviously if you go changing the rolling diameter of the wheel more braking force will be required to stop it but the VSC computer is not smart enough to recognise this on the operation of the VSC will be hampered.
The whole thing has been poorly handled but with Xmas parties fast approaching some departments obviously need a it of extra revenue.
Post by: #jonesy on September 11, 2018, 09:38:52 PM
Love to see what they thought of my 6+in suspension, 2in body lifted and 35's on my old GQ passed the swerve test - the lot = Fully Engineered :DThat's the whole point. You can go up to the limit without an engineer. If you end to go beyond that then you need an engineer. Everyone is getting hung up on the idea that is is automatically a death trap 1mm above the limit. It just means it is not legal above that. (without engineer)
Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..
Post by: GBC on September 12, 2018, 05:46:54 AM
No not in Qld, this is where the confusion is coming in because they are now referring to the Qld code of practice instead of the national code. It's all in the wording a vehicle without VSC is considered a vehicle lift, a vehicle with VSC its called a suspension lift and larger tyres would require engineer approval.
The following information provides some general guidance about raising a vehicle’s height
Without ESC-
A vehicle lift up to and including 75mm combining both suspension lift and tyre diameter increase (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm) is acceptable under self-certification.
A vehicle lift between 76mm and 125mm inclusive, combining a suspension lift, a tyre diameter increase and a body lift (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body lift 50mm) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
With ESC
A suspension lift up to and including 50mm is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift over 50 mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
I don't believe it has anything to do with the height of the vehicle but more the operation of the VSC as VSC work by applying brake pressure to the wheel that requires it, obviously if you go changing the rolling diameter of the wheel more braking force will be required to stop it but the VSC computer is not smart enough to recognise this on the operation of the VSC will be hampered.
The whole thing has been poorly handled but with Xmas parties fast approaching some departments obviously need a it of extra revenue.
That is not what I have been told or what is being practised by the major tyre companies we have accounts with. All our fleet utes get a size bigger tyres without question. I’ll follow up. The link I posted was straight from the TMR Qld G19.9 Minor Modifications Document, not the NCOP.
EDIT: The Qld cope of Practice only deals with assessable lifts higher than 50mm - LS9 and LS10 certification.
Post by: doc evil on September 12, 2018, 06:32:35 AM
<snip>
Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..
That's the point I've been trying to make!! :angel: :angel: :cheers: :cheers:
No not in Qld, this is where the confusion is coming in because they are now referring to the Qld code of practice instead of the national code.
<snip>
The whole thing has been poorly handled but with Xmas parties fast approaching some departments obviously need a it of extra revenue.
Exactly!! QLD are using their own rules and not VSB14 (or ADR's for that matter) which is the national code and lining their pockets by making us PROVE we comply with VSB14 (or the ADR's).
From VSB14.
Quote
INTENT AND PURPOSE
VSB 14 has been prepared to provide guidance for those who intend to manufacture an
Individually Constructed Vehicle (ICV) or to carry out light vehicle modifications. Its ultimate aim
is to ensure that each completed vehicle is safe for use on the road and that the level of safety
afforded by a vehicle to its passengers and other road users is not compromised by any
modifications.
One of the principal aims of the VSB 14 project is to provide a nationally acceptable set of
technical specifications that ensure that the manufacture of ICVs and the modification of
production vehicles comply with the applicable requirements of the Australian Design Rules
(ADRs) and the AVSR.
Compliance with VSB 14 requirements will help ensure that work undertaken satisfies the
regulatory requirements of jurisdictions.
Post by: tryagain on September 12, 2018, 06:50:57 AM
Love to see what they thought of my 6+in suspension, 2in body lifted and 35's on my old GQ passed the swerve test - the lot = Fully Engineered :D
Who is more educated if my GQ was safe - the engineer with 25 years experience in 4wds, or some 20yr old cop who was forced to do a 1 days training clinic on the evils of 4wd's..
Of course the engineer is, and if had signed off on it being OK then they would have just let you go, simples.
Post by: doc evil on September 12, 2018, 07:35:40 AM
Of course the engineer is, and if had signed off on it being OK then they would have just let you go, simples.
As soon as you say, "but that is blue plated sir", I can guarantee you that the fine toothed comb will come out and more of your time will be wasted because you are now considered a smartass.......... and if there is a bit of mud where it shouldn't be, off to DOT you go!!
Nothing to do with the fact that you are dragged off the road and away from where you were going under the "assumption" your vehicle "looks" illegal!!
Post by: Fizzie on September 12, 2018, 07:47:57 AM
Measurement of height rule for a GQ Nissan Partol Wagon : Vertical measurement wheel centre to top of wheel arch opening at unladen mass.
The bit that I just noticed about this was "at unladen mass"
So, when they pull you up at the side of the road, they're going to remove your bullba & roof racks, take the drawers & fridge out of the back & empty all your luggage & 90% of your fuel to take the vehicle down to unladen mass to measure it ???
Post by: tryagain on September 12, 2018, 08:12:13 AM
As soon as you say, "but that is blue plated sir", I can guarantee you that the fine toothed comb will come out and more of your time will be wasted because you are now considered a smartass.......... and if there is a bit of mud where it shouldn't be, off to DOT you go!!
Come on, not even you believe that..... really.....defect you for a spec of mud?
Nothing to do with the fact that you are dragged off the road and away from where you were going under the "assumption" your vehicle "looks" illegal!!
That's the way enforcing the law works, if it looks like you might be breaking it they check, if you are you face the consequences, if not they send you on your way.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 12, 2018, 08:43:10 AM
Post by: edz on September 12, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
As soon as you say, "but that is blue plated sir", I can guarantee you that the fine toothed comb will come out and more of your time will be wasted because you are now considered a smartass.......... and if there is a bit of mud where it shouldn't be, off to DOT you go!!As stated before... It has happened to me, be it a long time ago and in NSW, Police pull you over for roadside inspection and the RTA boys do the checks " I have a certificate for the Modifications " officer ..." We will need you to proceed straight to the RTA inspection center for further tests Driver " ..
Nothing to do with the fact that you are dragged off the road and away from where you were going under the "assumption" your vehicle "looks" illegal!!
" But why, here is the Mod certificate " reply was " Are you going to comply or do we place a defective vehicle sticker on the vehicle and it has to be towed and you take it off the road till its Inspected " ..
The head inspector didnt deem my roll cage met with [ His ] the standards and defected the car, even though the RTA Recognised Engineer had signed off on it ... Verdict was 21 days to rectify the defect and get a blue slip full roadworthy compliance, AT my expense .
A good half of a day plus wasted sitting around the RTA Inspection station, then more time removing the Roll cage and getting a Blueslip clearance.
That was the quickest option to get back on the road, other than fighting with the Bastards at the time ....
Soo Im guessing if the Inspectors want to be " Turds " they can be and you dont get much say in the matter at the time .. And I was being calm, polite and minding my manners .. Would have hated to see how they would have reacted if I put on a show ..
Post by: Troopy_03 on September 12, 2018, 08:47:40 AM
So 6 pages and has anyone on here as yet been actually pulled over ????
As per the thread title, and the link posted, at least some people have been pulled over, defected etc, so it's pretty irrelevant whether they were also members here. Also, I don't think the cops are issued with a list of forum members... ;D
Post by: Fizzie on September 12, 2018, 08:52:36 AM
Also, I don't think the cops are issued with a list of forum members... ;D
Oh I dunno - I know there's a few :police: swaggers, so they may be passing details on to their mates... >:D ;D
Post by: Bird on September 12, 2018, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: tryagain
Come on, not even you believe that..... really.....defect you for a spec of mud?The latest fav around these parts is dirt on your lights or # plate...
2 blokes I know have been done for it, and when you see the photos of the "dirt" there was pretty much no obstruction to the light or plates and nearly every car on the road would be off the road .. Just the bacon on a PR exercise.
Post by: doc evil on September 12, 2018, 09:06:28 AM
The latest fav around these parts is dirt on your lights or # plate...
2 blokes I know have been done for it, and when you see the photos of the "dirt" there was pretty much no obstruction to the light or plates and nearly every car on the road would be off the road .. Just the bacon on a PR exercise.
Got done for similar in Vic many years ago........be late 90's. Was course checking the "rally in the valley" in my skyline. Had those clear plastic licence plate covers. A light covering of dust on the "inside" of the covers.........fine and points........ licence plate was visible, just the copper was being a prick!!
Post by: tryagain on September 12, 2018, 09:16:33 AM
The latest fav around these parts is dirt on your lights or # plate...
2 blokes I know have been done for it, and when you see the photos of the "dirt" there was pretty much no obstruction to the light or plates and nearly every car on the road would be off the road .. Just the bacon on a PR exercise.
You got pics? not saying there aren't :police: who are on a power trip as I don't doubt there are, just curious to see what they deemed worthy of a fine.
Post by: KingBilly on September 12, 2018, 09:24:10 AM
As stated before... It has happened to me, be it a long time ago and in NSW, Police pull you over for roadside inspection and the RTA boys do the checks " I have a certificate for the Modifications " officer ..." We will need you to proceed straight to the RTA inspection center for further tests Driver " ..
" But why, here is the Mod certificate " reply was " Are you going to comply or do we place a defective vehicle sticker on the vehicle and it has to be towed and you take it off the road till its Inspected " ..
The head inspector didnt deem my roll cage met with [ His ] the standards and defected the car, even though the RTA Recognised Engineer had signed off on it ... Verdict was 21 days to rectify the defect and get a blue slip full roadworthy compliance, AT my expense .
A good half of a day plus wasted sitting around the RTA Inspection station, then more time removing the Roll cage and getting a Blueslip clearance.
That was the quickest option to get back on the road, other than fighting with the Bastards at the time ....
Soo Im guessing if the Inspectors want to be " Turds " they can be and you dont get much say in the matter at the time .. And I was being calm, polite and minding my manners .. Would have hated to see how they would have reacted if I put on a show ..
Wow, you must have had no confidence in the qualifications and/or the certification of your “RTA Recognised Engineer” to remove the cage and have it re-inspected. If a qualified, certified engineer had approved the cage installation, end of story. Something is a bit odd with this.
KB
Post by: KingBilly on September 12, 2018, 09:27:27 AM
Oh I dunno - I know there's a few :police: swaggers, so they may be passing details on to their mates... >:D ;D
You and Bird in a competition to see who can be the biggest keyboard warrior tosser?
KB
Post by: Troopy_03 on September 12, 2018, 09:46:04 AM
You and Bird in a competition to see who can be the biggest keyboard warrior tosser?
KB
Is your lack of a sense of humor indicative of your profession? >:D >:D
Post by: Bird on September 12, 2018, 09:49:10 AM
Quote from: tryagain
You got pics? not saying there aren't :police: who are on a power trip as I don't doubt there are, just curious to see what they deemed worthy of a fine.Na mate had them on his phone - put it this way I've seen worse in suburbia than this was.
Tryin to find image on google images but cant see much similar.
I always carry 5ltr bottle of water and washed mine and windows when coming off tracks
If its like this - fair call
(https://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120409/640/really_dirty_cars_from_russia_UaSiv_640_13.jpg)
Post by: KingBilly on September 12, 2018, 11:02:47 AM
Post by: Rumpig on September 12, 2018, 11:21:06 AM
So 6 pages and has anyone on here as yet been actually pulled over ????was reading earlier a post elsewhere made by a fella I know, he wrote....
Quote
I warned the son to be on the lookout- yep around the redlands bike cops were doing the rounds bringing in every modified 4x4 they could find to the portable inspection station. They were setup at the boat ramp at Raby Bay and also somewhere in Capalaba.there is definitely a blitz on currently, it’s not just internet BS
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 12, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
As per the thread title, and the link posted, at least some people have been pulled over, defected etc, so it's pretty irrelevant whether they were also members here. Also, I don't think the cops are issued with a list of forum members... ;D
I was more about if someone on here as actually been pulled over and could give FIRST hand info as to what went on, what was measured, looked at etc
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on September 12, 2018, 11:58:33 AM
Post by: chisel on September 12, 2018, 12:14:35 PM
Post by: tryagain on September 12, 2018, 12:21:12 PM
Sorry for late reply gents been working, Id say that sticker is the same as mine Steve, as mine is only half there, 265/75 x 16 tyres,, Mr edz Craig
Your current tyre diameter is about 804mm (265x1.5+16x25.4) which is the same as the placard that steffo01 posted and edz interpreted.
In short, you are fine.
Post by: tryagain on September 12, 2018, 12:40:21 PM
https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/qld-police-ambushed-modified-4wds-119460.html (https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/qld-police-ambushed-modified-4wds-119460.html)
Probably the best criticism of the blitz I have seen so far, the retrospective nature of the law change without a public awareness campaign if true is pretty bad. Some of the AAAA claims though seem pretty self-serving though and contain logical fallacies.
Post by: Bird on September 12, 2018, 02:18:59 PM
Probably the best criticism of the blitz I have seen so far, the retrospective nature of the law change without a public awareness campaign if true is pretty bad. Some of the AAAA claims though seem pretty self-serving though and contain logical fallacies.Bye bye tourism.
" including visiting interstate cars – the new law has seen many tourists and locals unsuspectingly fined with defective stickers handed out, including the impounding of some vehicles."
Post by: Troopy_03 on September 12, 2018, 02:20:59 PM
I was more about if someone on here as actually been pulled over and could give FIRST hand info as to what went on, what was measured, looked at etc
Fairynuff, but that wasn't clear in your one line post.
Post by: Bird on September 12, 2018, 02:26:44 PM
https://www.change.org/p/australian-government-amend-vehicle-standards-safety-regulation-remove-limit-of-50mm-suspension-4x4-vehicles (https://www.change.org/p/australian-government-amend-vehicle-standards-safety-regulation-remove-limit-of-50mm-suspension-4x4-vehicles)
Post by: edz on September 12, 2018, 02:48:27 PM
Wow, you must have had no confidence in the qualifications and/or the certification of your “RTA Recognised Engineer” to remove the cage and have it re-inspected. If a qualified, certified engineer had approved the cage installation, end of story. Something is a bit odd with this.The head honcho deemed the front half of the cage had to be removable for road use [ which was totaly stupid and to be bolted back in when I got to the race track ] otherwise he would not clear the defect ...
KB
As said it was for me, far easier / quicker to remove the cage at the time and get back on the road [ about 24 bolts and an hour or so of my time ] ..
And yes I and many others had little confidence in EITHER of the Head RTA inspector and the Recognised So called Engineer . But he was THE MAN we were sent to see and empty our wallets with, to get engineer certificates in our area ..
My engine builder who is and was a Real Engineer with many many years of real experience, battled for over 4 hours to get this RTA approved engineer to understand that an engine can be de- stroked to get a smaller engine CC displacement, this was needed to meet the proper engine capacity for the the engine mod for rego On several occasions ..
My engine builders assesment on the abillities of the RTA engineer, Was how in gods name did he ever get endorsed as an Engineer when he couldnt even understand the most basic engineering principles ..
But hey I was there / Experienced this event, so it mustnt of happened that way ...
Yep, the very odd bit is someone in AUTHORITY PLAYING GOD and someone thats got a piece of paper to be an AUTHORITY being INCOMPETENT .... BUUTTTT that would never happen ..... Strange Huh !
Post by: weeds on September 12, 2018, 03:02:24 PM
So 6 pages and has anyone on here as yet been actually pulled over ????
I think my mothers brothers, his sons step mum, the cousin of the step mum aunties grand child got bull over
LOL...or a mate of a mate.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: Bird on September 12, 2018, 03:02:51 PM
Quote
“The AAAA reports that one complaint comes from a driver who had purchased a new vehicle with dealer-fitted accessories that were defected once in Queensland.
Vehicle owners that had only just picked up their vehicles or driven over the border from NSW were suddenly pulled off the road and told that their vehicle is not legal in Queensland,” said Charity.
One driver picked up a new 4WD that had been modified by the authorised new car dealer and 15 hours later his car was issued with a Defect Notice by the Queensland Police - it is a ridiculous situation.”
Post by: Pete79 on September 12, 2018, 03:05:02 PM
" including visiting interstate cars – the new law has seen many tourists and locals unsuspectingly fined with defective stickers handed out, including the impounding of some vehicles."
I don’t really feel like getting hassled (had enough of that growing up in a small town), but would be interested to see how my car that has passed roadworthy in Victoria and passed roadworthy in NSW and passed roadworthy in Queensland goes in this current blitz.
My money says a 1 hour training corse qualified specialist will find something that 3 separate professional inspectors in 3 separate states didn’t find..... ;)
Post by: Bird on September 12, 2018, 03:18:09 PM
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/computers-escaping-escapes-escape_keys-esc-keyboard-nfkn2081_low.jpg)
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 12, 2018, 03:22:48 PM
Post by: tryagain on September 12, 2018, 03:56:17 PM
Bye bye tourism.
" including visiting interstate cars – the new law has seen many tourists and locals unsuspectingly fined with defective stickers handed out, including the impounding of some vehicles."
Seen as though this might mean fewer people at campsites and not as many tracks rutted out by 35in+ tyres, I am not convinced this is a bad thing ;D
Post by: Bigfish on September 12, 2018, 04:06:56 PM
Do these do anything useful, or good for farming email addresses?
https://www.change.org/p/australian-government-amend-vehicle-standards-safety-regulation-remove-limit-of-50mm-suspension-4x4-vehicles (https://www.change.org/p/australian-government-amend-vehicle-standards-safety-regulation-remove-limit-of-50mm-suspension-4x4-vehicles)
From the website...
"These families are able to reach extreme places like Cape York with the assistance of modifications to 4x4 vehicles, without these modifications these sight seeing destinations would not be possible to visit."
What a load of bullShite. A stock vehicle will get you to most tourist destinations anywhere in Australia. Just have a look at the number 2 wheel drive vehicles in remote area towns. Bloke drove an Hyundai i30 up to the Cape not long ago...easily done with careful driving. A simple suspension upgrade to quality components, decent set of a/t tyres will enhance the ride and handling and be perfectly legal.
Post by: doc evil on September 12, 2018, 04:22:07 PM
From the website...
"These families are able to reach extreme places like Cape York with the assistance of modifications to 4x4 vehicles, without these modifications these sight seeing destinations would not be possible to visit."
What a load of bullShite. A stock vehicle will get you to most tourist destinations anywhere in Australia. Just have a look at the number 2 wheel drive vehicles in remote area towns. Bloke drove an Hyundai i30 up to the Cape not long ago...easily done with careful driving. A simple suspension upgrade to quality components, decent set of a/t tyres will enhance the ride and handling and be perfectly legal.
Like to see a i30 do the OTT or the 5 beach run or even the old coach road. How about the CREB in the wet...... (a hire car could do it ;D )
Yeah, ya point BF ::)
Post by: Hoyks on September 12, 2018, 04:45:08 PM
So 6 pages and has anyone on here as yet been actually pulled over ????
No... but I'm grabbing my pitchfork and joining the angry mob anyway. :D
I had a bit of a moment because I binned the stock 255/65/R16's and fitted 265/70/R16's which would add a massive 6mm lift. I have a suspension lift of 27mm over stock too and with the Qld wording of the ESC provision you could only have a lift from tyres or suspension, not both (Federally under Minor Modifications you can combine the two, but still only up to 50mm https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions)).
Lucky I checked my tyre plackard and found that 265/65/R17's are also an option which gives the exact same diameter as the 265/70/R16's (777mm, yet 1 less rotation per km ???. Must be a rounding issue).
34mm taller than stock, lucky it hasn't randomly fallen over yet :cheers:.
Post by: Bird on September 12, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
Quote from: tryagain
Seen as though this might mean fewer people at campsites and not as many tracks rutted out by 35in+ tyres, I am not convinced this is a bad thing ;D
You think anyone from others states where their cars are legal will bother?
Specially the ".... some cars were impounded" bit.. hows your holiday? Oh great, spent it getting my car out of impound and just went home broke.
Post by: Bigfish on September 12, 2018, 04:46:31 PM
Like to see a i30 do the OTT or the 5 beach run or even the old coach road. How about the CREB in the wet...... (a hire car could do it ;D )
Yeah, ya point BF ::)
Sorry. But most stock standard 4wds will do the CREB, OTT and the 5 beach run. Yes , you may need a legal mod like a snorkel or a winch but plenty dont have either and do it every year. Why would you even contemplate an I30 on a wet CREB...Even the best modde 4wd would probably fail in the wet..then again its not a top rated tourist destination.
Post by: Hoyks on September 12, 2018, 05:34:38 PM
Post by: KingBilly on September 12, 2018, 05:38:24 PM
Sorry. But most stock standard 4wds will do the CREB, OTT and the 5 beach run. Yes , you may need a legal mod like a snorkel or a winch but plenty dont have either and do it every year. Why would you even contemplate an I30 on a wet CREB...Even the best modde 4wd would probably fail in the wet..then again its not a top rated tourist destination.
Amd a VW Beetle has crossed the Simmo on the French Line :cheers:
KB
Post by: McGirr on September 12, 2018, 05:51:12 PM
I cannot seem to find anyone on any social media outlet, say yes.
Mark
Post by: alnjan on September 12, 2018, 05:58:12 PM
So has any interstate driver had their 4x4 defected traveling in Qld.
I cannot seem to find anyone on any social media outlet, say yes.
Mark
Interstate vehicle, as long as it passes the requirements for that state can not be defected or classified unsafe when visiting another state. Only becomes an issue if the owner of the interstate vehicle resides in Qld and meets other requirements can be subject to Qld road rules.
Post by: edz on September 12, 2018, 07:11:55 PM
Post by: plusnq on September 12, 2018, 07:26:41 PM
Post by: alnjan on September 12, 2018, 07:30:48 PM
Its on Facebook so it must be true
And Facebook wouldn't lie
Post by: Hoyks on September 12, 2018, 07:32:24 PM
(https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/roadSafety/vehimpound/PublishingImages/Pages/offenceconsequence/QPS_MVI_Consequences.jpg)
https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/roadSafety/vehimpound/offenceconsequence.htm (https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/roadSafety/vehimpound/offenceconsequence.htm)
Post by: weeds on September 12, 2018, 08:03:12 PM
Its on Facebook so it must be true
I call BS......
I don’t reckon they would be that organized to have a tow truck arranged and loaded a car prior to having a talk with the owner..all outside the front of the house.
I reckon I’d know if a tow truck pulled up in front of my house and started dragging a car onto the flatbed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: KingBilly on September 12, 2018, 08:08:25 PM
KB
Post by: edz on September 12, 2018, 08:20:19 PM
Post by: Troopy_03 on September 12, 2018, 08:29:38 PM
Its on Facebook so it must be true
I got to about line four before I ran out of breath. I hope you sent him a few fullstops and commas, he's clearly run out of them. ;D. The rest of it was too confusing anyway, trying to decipher between his "he's" and "his".
Should put that in the daily rant thread. Why are people so piss poor at expressing themselves these days? That's what teachers should be paying more attention to.
Post by: JusyApples on September 12, 2018, 08:52:10 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: alnjan on September 12, 2018, 10:24:40 PM
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws)
Two things from the article
"To be clear: a modified vehicle registered in another state or jurisdiction can legally drive in Queensland, provided that vehicle continues to comply with the modifications that were approved in that state or jurisdiction."
The other one being.
"Modifications in QLD
Vehicle lift modification requirements are covered by the Queensland Code of Practice (QCOP).
The codes which specify lift requirements are being reviewed.
The aim of the review is to more closely align Queensland’s requirements with Australian standards (the National Code of Practice VSB-14), without disadvantaging Queensland drivers and modifiers.
The review has proposed changes in Queensland that would see:
The maximum combined lift that can be certified (using codes LS9 and LS10) increase from 125mm to 150mm
The maximum lift by suspension alone that can be certified (using codes LS9 and LS10) increase from 50mm to 75mm."
Why run an Operation handing out defects and fines when you are review the QCOPS. One big Political clustertruck
Post by: SEADOO on September 12, 2018, 11:01:33 PM
Apparently, they changed the rules in QLD without informing the public. So every one running a 2 inch lift and up one tyre size on their ESC equipt vehicles thinking they are legal (they were) are now ilegal without being informed.
The Gestapo changed the rules with out informing the public.
Post by: GBC on September 13, 2018, 05:37:03 AM
I have read a couple articles today. It was an ambush.
Apparently, they changed the rules in QLD without informing the public. So every one running a 2 inch lift and up one tyre size on their ESC equipt vehicles thinking they are legal (they were) are now ilegal without being informed.
The Gestapo changed the rules with out informing the public.
Pigs arse. LS9 and 10 mods mean your car has been tested, complied, and plated. The wankers with pipe lifts and extended shackles who had their cars impounded NEVER complied with anything and the fuzz didn’t need any change in any law to ‘ambush’ them. It doesn’t matter what state it came from either, those mods are illegal everywhere. Good riddance to them and their out of state backyard mod counterparts.
I’d be amazed if anybody being pulled over and stickered complied last week and doesn’t now. Amazed.
Post by: doc evil on September 13, 2018, 06:20:08 AM
Quote
Update on Operation Lift, the Qld 4WD mod crackdown
The TMR says that Operation Lift was a "three day operation on the Gold Coast" and that 60 vehicles were stopped. Which presumably means its over, for the time being.
They also say there was an "education and engagement" component .
Oddly, in October the TMR plans to change the modificatio laws, specifically:
LS9—High Lift – 50mm-125mm (Design)
LS10—High Lift – 50mm-125mm (Modification)
To:
"The maximum combined lift that can be certified (using codes LS9 and LS10) increase from 125mm to 150mm
The maximum lift by suspension alone that can be certified (using codes LS9 and LS10) increase from 50mm to 75mm."
The 75mm lift would be a 50mm tyre diameter increase and 50mm suspension lift, as per NSW for all vehicles, and Victoria for all non-ESC vehicles - in Victoria you can do a 75mm lift but you need to prove ESC is not affected.
There are many more questions and four I have outstanding are:
1. What sort of vehicles were targetted and why?
2. Why now, as the statement say that Qld intends to adopt
3. What was the "education and engagement" component?
4. Will the proposed changes to LS9 and LS10 be for vehicles with ESC?
Frankly, all the information and documents coming out of Queensland authorities are quite confusing, even to me who has specialised in this for years, and this is just Queensland let alone the other states. Even when there are clear statements there are many other questions left unanswered, I guess because nobody knows they need answering.
I've pointed out to TMR that the vast majority of 4WD owners just want a moderate, legal lift and to do the right thing, and it'd be a massive help if the various authorities (police, TMR) could be clearer about what the laws are, and their future intent, and then educate before enforce.
Post by: GBC on September 13, 2018, 07:03:19 AM
Post by: Bigfish on September 13, 2018, 07:39:40 AM
Post by: plusnq on September 13, 2018, 07:43:41 AM
It just shows the contempt that the pollies and bureaucrats from council level to federal level have for the nations people. About bloody time we had a royal commission into Australia's transport system with a view to standardising it from state to state. Common sense so it wont happen. How the hell can you drive 100 yards into another state and be put off the road for a vehicle that meets all criteria in the state 100yards back but not in this one?.. ??? ???
Not just transport but health, education, emergency services and probably most of the services provided at a state level would be better divested to federal or local level. The States are an historic anachronism.
Post by: KingBilly on September 13, 2018, 08:15:27 AM
I have read a couple articles today. It was an ambush.
Apparently, they changed the rules in QLD without informing the public. So every one running a 2 inch lift and up one tyre size on their ESC equipt vehicles thinking they are legal (they were) are now ilegal without being informed.
The Gestapo changed the rules with out informing the public.
What a load of rubbish.
No ambush.
Proposed rule changes happen in October, but don’t be surprised if they are delayed or modified before being introduced.
The Gestapo can NOT change any rules, only members of parliament can make road and vehicle compliance laws.
KB
Post by: KingBilly on September 13, 2018, 08:28:55 AM
It just shows the contempt that the pollies and bureaucrats from council level to federal level have for the nations people. About bloody time we had a royal commission into Australia's transport system with a view to standardising it from state to state. Common sense so it wont happen. How the hell can you drive 100 yards into another state and be put off the road for a vehicle that meets all criteria in the state 100yards back but not in this one?.. ??? ???
There is a standard set of road rules for Australia. Same as there is a standard set of vehicle compliance rules for the whole of Australia.
But each state must adopt these standard rules into their state legislation as states have legislative responsibility for road laws and vehicle compliance laws.
What happens in real life, is that the states pick and choose which parts of the national rules that they adopt. Hence different speed limits in the NT, different towing speeds in WA, etc, etc. Most of these differences are caused by individuals or groups lobbying their local state members who in turn lobby the respective ministers who then change the national rules to suit their own party’s political agendas.
From past practical experience in a previous working life, I would guess the vast majority of these state changes are against the advice of both the transport and the police department’s technical advisor’s recommendations.
Yes, we need uniform national guidelines to be adopted by politicians with enough guts to do the right thing. That will never happen, and a RC wouldn’t make it happen either.
KB
Post by: Pete79 on September 13, 2018, 09:59:41 AM
What happens in real life, is that the states pick and choose which parts of the national rules that they adopt. Hence different speed limits in the NT, different towing speeds in WA, etc, etc. Most of these differences are caused by individuals or groups lobbying their local state members who in turn lobby the respective ministers who then change the national rules to suit their own party’s political agendas.
This is just as confusing as all of the criss crossing documents relating to vehicle modifications. Local groups get state members to change federal rules to suit political agendas???
Is there one set of federal guidelines that overrule all of the tweaks each state has done or not?
Post by: KingBilly on September 13, 2018, 10:01:24 AM
KB
Post by: KingBilly on September 13, 2018, 10:03:53 AM
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws)
KB
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 13, 2018, 10:09:21 AM
Post by: Raym on September 13, 2018, 11:10:18 AM
https://youtu.be/BczEWS8wKSc?t=986
Post by: DannyG on September 13, 2018, 11:13:34 AM
Now this puts all that dribble from 4WD Qld and AAAA in with all the other conspiracy theories on social media
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws)
KB
Now all the fun has been taken out of this thread. It was better when everyone from interstate was boycotting Queensland. I hate when someone brings facts to an argument, all the stuff I was reading on the internet was a better read ;D
Post by: KingBilly on September 13, 2018, 11:20:00 AM
KB
Post by: edz on September 13, 2018, 12:53:23 PM
One thing you could bet on though, there will still be some Wannabe god wearing the blue badge of reality that will play stickerman with defect slips, regardless ...
Just the same as knobs will continue to do whatever they want .................. Till they get caught .
Post by: Spada on September 13, 2018, 04:12:15 PM
It's just like the rated shackle drama, but on a bigger scale.................never let the facts get in the way of a good story >:D
Post by: Beachman on September 13, 2018, 04:43:47 PM
Post by: Bigfish on September 13, 2018, 05:40:49 PM
and maybe if journalists actually did some research and reported based on the facts, instead of using twitface as their source, we would not have had all of the carry-on in the first place. Somehow it morphed from a 3 day targeted crackdown on illegally modified vehicles, into a full on Armageddon against all 4wd's that was going to decimate Queensland tourism and force the closure of all 4wd accessory businesses? Far too much of what is "news" these days is nothing more that some bull$#!t social media topic that gets latched onto by a news outlet and the whole thing just runs away out of control......................exactly like this thread has from a single channel 7 news report that started from a social media post about a tricked up ute getting towed away, and then went viral.
It's just like the rated shackle drama, but on a bigger scale.................never let the facts get in the way of a good story >:D
Facebook is the preferred media for many morons.
Post by: Pete79 on September 13, 2018, 08:06:37 PM
It mentions a 3 day blitz on the Gold Coast, but my Nephew got pulled over in his 4WD at Burpengary (North Side of Brisbane and he passed)And apparently the Glasshouse raids where very organized and efficient as well...
Post by: Nomad on September 13, 2018, 08:10:53 PM
Post by: GeoffA on September 13, 2018, 08:14:31 PM
Post by: D4D on September 13, 2018, 08:19:51 PM
Beautiful one day.....
Unroadworthy the next >:D
Post by: plusnq on September 13, 2018, 08:28:07 PM
Post by: SEADOO on September 13, 2018, 08:50:44 PM
What a load of rubbish.
No ambush.
Proposed rule changes happen in October, but don’t be surprised if they are delayed or modified before being introduced.
The Gestapo can NOT change any rules, only members of parliament can make road and vehicle compliance laws.
KB
There was no warning, no mention of it, no signed. Ambush.
ESC equipt vehicles were allowed a small upgrade, now they are not.
Gestapo, can interpret the rules. Laws are always open to interpretation. Laws changed with no warning.
They could of provided advice, guidance and provided a warning (unless it's the standard GQ with a P plate and the mods were dangerous) and let them go with a warning about the new laws. But they decided to defect evert body with any form of lift.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on September 14, 2018, 12:17:14 AM
It should be read and understood as written, meanings of words and original intent of the Law makers should never be considered.
The 'Articled Clerks' that framed these Laws, as a result of requests from Politicians, should be doing their job correctly.
If they want the Law to mean something other than the way it is written, why don't they amend it, instead of a bull...t interpretation.
Post by: weeds on September 14, 2018, 05:37:25 AM
It mentions a 3 day blitz on the Gold Coast, but my Nephew got pulled over in his 4WD at Burpengary (North Side of Brisbane and he passed)
Yes..because before the blitz they pulled random cars over for random inspections, normal everyday activity for police and department of transport.
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Post by: doc evil on September 14, 2018, 06:05:09 AM
There should never be any need to interpret a law.
It should be read and understood as written, meanings of words and original intent of the Law makers should never be considered.
The 'Articled Clerks' that framed these Laws, as a result of requests from Politicians, should be doing their job correctly.
If they want the Law to mean something other than the way it is written, why don't they amend it, instead of a bull...t interpretation.
You've hit the nail on head however, If the law is coming into effect from October (as stated in the police and gubbament media releases), why are vehicles being stickered and removed from the road in September?
The way the gubbament document reads, is they a proposing changes to item LS9 and LS10. As far as I'm aware, these changes have NOT been implemented and very much doubt it will be done in 2 weeks.
It is appearing as a very quick and uncoordinated cash grab!!
Post by: #jonesy on September 14, 2018, 06:26:09 AM
"You're allowed a 50mm lift, bad luck sunshine it is only 40!"
They should get a warning? Why would they came the mods back? A defect makes them do it.
Cash grab. Did they all get a fine? Or just the over the top ones?
It is the most ineffective "cash grab" it is too labour and overhead intensive.
Post by: Bigfish on September 14, 2018, 06:57:28 AM
"Actually a cop on a bike pulled up next to me at some traffic lights and 'Ordered and Escorted' me down another road(1km away)where they were set-up. Didn't even see them..... There were 3 cop bikes and a few cars doing the same. Looking for Vehicles of interest I would say .. 4X4's and Modified cars were inspected... Yes one inspector was using a tape measure and a height checker for lowered cars.... Didn't see any Scales to weigh us tho...
Worst thing is that if you got pinged for anything I herd they were getting you under the anti hoon laws (Illegal Modifications).... And that means 2 strikes in 5 yrs and bye bye CAR OR 4X4... Totally unfair.... I was very nice to them and the cop said when I was leaving thank you for being very nice about it all.. Yer Right... Would have locked me up tho if he herd what I said upon leaving tho.. Lol.... Had an issue with the cop about my factory 40mm lift, till the Transport inspector said I was ok... Phew...
How Modified are you? sorry just looked, you should be ok....
Where are you going in QLD and when are you coming up? should be over in a week or so and they will move on to another area for awhile... Oh and they were Drug testing and RBT as well.... With 5 tow trucks waiting for a 'customer'...
Post by: doc evil on September 14, 2018, 07:03:43 AM
What are they misinterpreting?The way I read it,
"You're allowed a 50mm lift, bad luck sunshine it is only 40!"
One document says 50mm being QLD gubbamint and another states 75mm lift being VSB14........Which one is right?? Which document do we abide by??
They should get a warning? Why would they came the mods back? A defect makes them do it.
ummm........if you complied with VSB14 and TMR is implementing a rule change, we should be advised of it AND allowed a time frame to rectify. Not send the vehicle home on a tilt tray or defect or impound.
Cash grab. Did they all get a fine? Or just the over the top ones?
It is the most ineffective "cash grab" it is too labour and overhead intensive.
Vehicle has to be inspected by a TMR rep to remove the incumbent document, which means booking in and paying for the privilege.
More vehicles with a repair order issued under false intent (not yet approved for amendment) means more TMR office bookings means more cash to the gubbamint.......for a few plods standing roadside pulling in vehicles they believe defective with 3 days of training.
Post by: doc evil on September 14, 2018, 07:08:50 AM
Post by: tryagain on September 14, 2018, 08:20:30 AM
It's not worth continually correcting the errors with some as it is just ignored. I guess it's true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Post by: Lobster on September 14, 2018, 08:27:45 AM
Post by: Fizzie on September 14, 2018, 08:29:45 AM
It mentions a 3 day blitz on the Gold Coast, but my Nephew got pulled over in his 4WD at Burpengary (North Side of Brisbane and he passed)
What was he in, did he have any mod's & what did they check ???
Post by: Fizzie on September 14, 2018, 08:31:13 AM
A cheat sheet :-X :-X :-X
& don't give out the e-mail address down the bottom of the the form, because it's for Police & DTMR use only >:D
Post by: GBC on September 14, 2018, 10:47:34 AM
A cheat sheet :-X :-X :-X
Looks just like the qcop - amazing. It’s a conspiracy!
Aaron Schubert - they are adding tyre and suspension heights here on ESC vehicles which looks like combination lifts under 50mm might just scrape through.
Post by: Pottsy on September 14, 2018, 11:33:55 AM
There was no warning, no mention of it, no signed. Ambush.
ESC equipt vehicles were allowed a small upgrade, now they are not.
Gestapo, can interpret the rules. Laws are always open to interpretation. Laws changed with no warning.
They could of provided advice, guidance and provided a warning (unless it's the standard GQ with a P plate and the mods were dangerous) and let them go with a warning about the new laws. But they decided to defect evert body with any form of lift.
Seadoo, when the time comes and you or a member of your family needs the help of the "Gestapo" I hope you treat them with a bit more respect than your post indicates.
Post by: Pete79 on September 14, 2018, 11:44:51 AM
Very Interesting reading from 4WD-QLD-Press-Release-2018-4WDs-Targeted-in-State-Wide-Modification-Crackdown.pdf.There's been a few posts with this 4wd QLD press release, for those that don't feel like reading all of it allow me summarize...
4wd QLD went to the Queensland government and demanded that they be a part of the discussions relating to vehicle modifications and this was the official response from the gov;
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9f5cd6c8d34f2a4be4aed466bfcd2049/tenor.gif?itemid=10700690)
;D ;D :angel:
Post by: wada4wd on September 14, 2018, 12:04:53 PM
ESC equipt vehicles were allowed a small upgrade, now they are not.
Sorry SEADOO, you are incorrect.
Quote
With ESChttps://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/G19.pdf?la=en (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/G19.pdf?la=en)
A suspension lift up to and including 50mm is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift over 50 mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
Post by: DannyG on September 14, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
Certainly an interesting era we live in now, people seem happy to make assertions without any evidence, when contradictory facts are bought into the discussion that disprove their assertion they just ignore them based on more baseless assertions.
It's not worth continually correcting the errors with some as it is just ignored. I guess it's true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Perfect ;D
Post by: SEADOO on September 14, 2018, 09:32:45 PM
Sorry SEADOO, you are incorrect.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/G19.pdf?la=en (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/G19.pdf?la=en)
Ok, apologies, there seems to be so much bullShit written on this topic now. I thought they changed the rules.
So my 2017 MQ Triton with a 30mm suspension lift and 265/70/16's is still legal?
Post by: weeds on September 16, 2018, 03:34:38 PM
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/index.htm
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Post by: Hoyks on September 16, 2018, 04:10:53 PM
When it worked you would select the vehicle and it would output a report like this one attached:
Post by: Bigfish on September 16, 2018, 04:52:06 PM
Post by: Paddler Ed on September 16, 2018, 09:38:45 PM
Can anybody make this link work for post 1999
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/index.htm (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/index.htm)
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Nope, its broken. It was working a few weeks ago when I was doing some research, but I'm guessing someone broke it.
When it worked you would select the vehicle and it would output a report like this one attached:
Pre99 ok after that it looks like the site may have been taken down....time for another conspiracy theory maybe?
No, it's buggered...
BUT... there is a rough as guts 1990s style website from Federal Government that has more information on it:
http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.Notify_Search (http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.Notify_Search)
On STATUS select "ALL", and just use the Manufacturer name
Post by: Beachman on September 17, 2018, 07:50:43 AM
Yes..because before the blitz they pulled random cars over for random inspections, normal everyday activity for police and department of transport.
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You say random, but my nephew says the only cars being pulled over for inspection were newish 4WD utes.
Post by: Beachman on September 17, 2018, 07:59:26 AM
What was he in, did he have any mod's & what did they check ???
He was in a 12 month old Ranger which he changed back to a legal lift and put the original tyres/rims back on a couple of days before. His previous lift/tyres weren't crazy, but still illegal. So he is glad he spent a couple of hours working on his car as saved him a fine.
Post by: weeds on September 17, 2018, 10:38:01 AM
No, it's buggered...
BUT... there is a rough as guts 1990s style website from Federal Government that has more information on it:
http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.Notify_Search (http://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.Notify_Search)
On STATUS select "ALL", and just use the Manufacturer name
Thanks for that.....although I think I’m more confused
My car complies but I don’t get how they
- measure unladen
- measure arch opening when OEM flare is fitted
- full bump doesn’t add up either.
Either way, if I’m ever pulled over I’m sure they will notice my rear coils missing, hopefully blue plate will be fitted in time.
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Post by: plusnq on September 17, 2018, 11:13:39 AM
Thanks for that.....although I think I’m more confused
My car complies but I don’t get how they
- measure unladen
- measure arch opening when OEM flare is fitted
- full bump doesn’t add up either.
Either way, if I’m ever pulled over I’m sure they will notice my rear coils missing, hopefully blue plate will be fitted in time.
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Are you on airbags weeds?
Post by: Fizzie on September 17, 2018, 12:46:46 PM
He was in a 12 month old Ranger which he changed back to a legal lift and put the original tyres/rims back on a couple of days before.
So to all intents, it was a stock standard vehicle ???
Post by: weeds on September 17, 2018, 01:42:47 PM
Are you on airbags weeds?
Yeps, coils out air suspension in
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Post by: GeoffA on September 17, 2018, 06:02:35 PM
.......I don’t get how they
- measure unladen
- measure arch opening when OEM flare is fitted
.......
They don't need to measure. There are dimensions on record for each make and model.
:cheers:
Post by: weeds on September 17, 2018, 06:12:01 PM
They don't need to measure. There are dimensions on record for each make and model.
:cheers:
Er they still need to get a tape measure out.......on my car the OEM flare goes past the top of the arch.
The dimensions on record are not correct, well don’t add up and I believe are different from the manufacturers handbook/specs......and they only state unladen, Bump stop and on later cars minimum height accepted. How do they measure utes with trays fitted?
Have you actually checked your against the system??
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Post by: GeoffA on September 17, 2018, 06:16:54 PM
Can anybody make this link work for post 1999
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/index.htm (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/rvd-pre1999/index.htm)
Nope, its broken. It was working a few weeks ago when I was doing some research, but I'm guessing someone broke it.
When it worked you would select the vehicle and it would output a report like this one attached:
Worked OK for me, pre and post '99...
Post by: GeoffA on September 17, 2018, 06:24:50 PM
Er they still need to get a tape measure out....Only to measure the current height. Original is on record.
...on my car the OEM flare goes past the top of the arch.I guess you mean that the flare wraps under the wheel arch.....your win there....
The dimensions on record are not correct, well don’t add up and I believe are different from the manufacturers handbook/specs......and they only state unladen......Correct or not, that's what they would use. The numbers would probably have been supplied by the manufacturer at time of compliance.
How do they measure utes with trays fitted?Don't know....bump stops maybe?
Have you actually checked your against the system??Several times, but only the wheel centre to underside of wheel arch.
:cheers:
Post by: weeds on September 17, 2018, 06:47:16 PM
Only to measure the current height. Original is on record.
I guess you mean that the flare wraps under the wheel arch.....your win there....
Correct or not, that's what they would use. The numbers would probably have been supplied by the manufacturer at time of compliance.
Don't know....bump stops maybe?
Several times, but only the wheel centre to underside of wheel arch.
:cheers:
Goodo, most helpful
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Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on September 17, 2018, 06:54:58 PM
https://myrta.com/rvd/searchRVDResult.do?viewPdfKey=329&submitValue=view
Didn't, sorry.
Was for a 2000 Landcruiser 4x4.
It's what you put into the query box for Brand, year, Model.
That's what works or doesn't, depending on which vehicle your chasing.
Both Sections Pre and Post 1999 Vehicles, do work.
Post by: SEADOO on September 17, 2018, 07:00:41 PM
Seadoo, when the time comes and you or a member of your family needs the help of the "Gestapo" I hope you treat them with a bit more respect than your post indicates.
House gets robbed, "sorry sir, they'll get there when they can". 3 days later.
Black gangs walking around stabbing and robbing every one, not a cop to be seen.
Drive a 9 month 4WD with a OME 40mm suspension lift fitted by a professional installer, fit a 265/75/16 LT BFG (up from a 245/70/16) get bounced on by 3 cops, booked and loss of vehicle.
Yep. Sounds fair.
Post by: Gazza00 on September 17, 2018, 07:32:15 PM
Must have arrested all the 4x4's ;D ..... next targets on the list
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/queensland-police-book-hundreds-of-1000-cyclists-for-speeding-or-running-red-lights/news-story/fcec0fea8de399a166f902a1aad52d99 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/queensland-police-book-hundreds-of-1000-cyclists-for-speeding-or-running-red-lights/news-story/fcec0fea8de399a166f902a1aad52d99)
Post by: PWE on September 17, 2018, 08:04:41 PM
Must have arrested all the 4x4's ;D ..... next targets on the list
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/queensland-police-book-hundreds-of-1000-cyclists-for-speeding-or-running-red-lights/news-story/fcec0fea8de399a166f902a1aad52d99 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/queensland-police-book-hundreds-of-1000-cyclists-for-speeding-or-running-red-lights/news-story/fcec0fea8de399a166f902a1aad52d99)
About time the cyclist get fined.
Post by: PWE on September 17, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Is this true or should it stated that you can lift each by 50mm but the combine cannot be more than 75mm?
Post by: Hoyks on September 17, 2018, 10:02:54 PM
I saw in the latest Unsealed online mag on page 76 that one can in Qld lift the suspension with 50mm and the tyres with 50mm without needing an engineer certificate.Right now, 50mm only, 1mm extra in tyres and you need a mod plate.
Is this true or should it stated that you can lift each by 50mm but the combine cannot be more than 75mm?
Proposed change is to allow 50mm bigger tyres, but it isn't law yet and people are getting pinged for doing it.
Post by: PWE on September 17, 2018, 10:14:24 PM
The rules are (copy and past from website)
Without ESC-
A vehicle lift up to and including 75mm combining both suspension lift and tyre diameter increase (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm) is acceptable under self-certification.
Post by: DaveR on September 18, 2018, 06:08:54 AM
Now that I am in the game of shifting cars about for a living, I have come across a few things of interest.
The last crack down was lowered and loud sports cars, fast and furious types with big turbo's etc. Apparently the reaction was nothing compared to the 4wd crack down.
Post by: edz on September 18, 2018, 08:24:21 AM
Post by: Luke_D on September 18, 2018, 06:35:05 PM
Post by: MrCruza on September 20, 2018, 01:00:11 PM
Media Release (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/20/greater-consistency-on-lift-laws-for-queensland-4wd-owners)
Post by: KingBilly on September 20, 2018, 05:26:02 PM
Latest media release. ESC owners can rest easy :)
Media Release (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/20/greater-consistency-on-lift-laws-for-queensland-4wd-owners)
There was never an issue. The only ones trying to make it an issue were the keyboard warriors, AAAA and 4WD Qld through their own ignorance.
KB
Post by: Luke_D on September 20, 2018, 06:51:53 PM
There was never an issue. The only ones trying to make it an issue were the keyboard warriors, AAAA and 4WD Qld through their own ignorance.
KB
??? Never an issue. There was for esc 4x4 owners who did the 2” suspension and 1”tyres lifts
Post by: plusnq on September 20, 2018, 07:13:53 PM
??? Never an issue. There was for esc 4x4 owners who did the 2” suspension and 1”tyres lifts
And were defected off the road.
Post by: MrCruza on September 20, 2018, 07:19:22 PM
Post by: Troopy_03 on September 20, 2018, 08:23:48 PM
There was never an issue. The only ones trying to make it an issue were the coppers through their own ignorance.fixed it for you. ;D
KB
Post by: gronk on September 20, 2018, 08:28:05 PM
Post by: Luke_D on September 20, 2018, 08:34:00 PM
What I couldn't find was the exact wording of the tyre lift......even though it says 25mm, does that mean an allowable 50mm diameter increase, which equates to a 25mm lift ??
Yep u r correct front. 50mm diameter to gain the 25mm lift.
Post by: Luke_D on September 20, 2018, 08:36:15 PM
Post by: tryagain on September 20, 2018, 09:19:27 PM
A big thanks to 4wd Qld and AAAA for taking the fight to the bastards.
Yep, they bored them to death with an 8 page press release, from what they have said, the gov was going down this path anyway to align with the other states.
Post by: alnjan on September 20, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
A big thanks to 4wd Qld and AAAA for taking the fight to the bastards.
Pollies were looking at it before 4WD Qld and AAAA did nothing
Post by: Bigfish on September 21, 2018, 05:47:14 AM
A big thanks to 4wd Qld and AAAA for taking the fight to the bastards.
Gate was already shut...
Post by: doc evil on September 21, 2018, 06:40:35 AM
Pollies were looking at it before 4WD Qld and AAAA did nothing
And were 4WDQLD or AAAA notified of these changes whilst being discussed at a parliamentary level or is this just a dig at them as they acted once the cat was out of the bag so to speak? Are you affiliated with a 4WDQLD club??? Did you raise your concerns with your club and your club's 4WDQLD representative that pollies were "looking at it" so that it can be actioned?????..........didn't think so!!!!
QLD TMR/Police are still blitzing. Jimboomba was hit yesterday. Don't know to what specs they are checking, but there is some cheap suspension and tyres appearing on the FB pages.
Post by: Luke_D on September 21, 2018, 07:04:57 AM
Yep, they bored them to death with an 8 page press release, from what they have said, the gov was going down this path anyway to align with the other states
They was never a timeline for the changes to esc vehicles, there were on discussions. People power led by 4wd qld and aaaa got us to this outcome. U can say as must a u want that they did nothing, but without them they wouldn’t have been the pressure on the government. Yes they didn’t have meetings with the minister regarding this (he’s too much of a prick to hold a discussion with anyone) but their constant emails and updates helped to get the outcome a lot sooner.
Post by: GBC on September 21, 2018, 07:36:56 AM
Yep, they bored them to death with an 8 page press release, from what they have said, the gov was going down this path anyway to align with the other states
They was never a timeline for the changes to esc vehicles, there were on discussions. People power led by 4wd qld and aaaa got us to this outcome. U can say as must a u want that they did nothing, but without them they wouldn’t have been the pressure on the government. Yes they didn’t have meetings with the minister regarding this (he’s too much of a prick to hold a discussion with anyone) but their constant emails and updates helped to get the outcome a lot sooner.
Crap. 4wd Qld and TMR freely admit that the new standard was already negotiated and due for release in October. The lobby groups were just pissed that the police had a blitz under the old regime before sunset.
Post by: KingBilly on September 21, 2018, 07:53:07 AM
They was never a timeline for the changes to esc vehicles, there were on discussions. People power led by 4wd qld and aaaa got us to this outcome. U can say as must a u want that they did nothing, but without them they wouldn’t have been the pressure on the government. Yes they didn’t have meetings with the minister regarding this (he’s too much of a prick to hold a discussion with anyone) but their constant emails and updates helped to get the outcome a lot sooner.
What a load of dribble. You should check your FACTS and not believe everything you read from ill-informed sources.
Crap. 4wd Qld and TMR freely admit that the new standard was already negotiated and due for release in October. The lobby groups were just pissed that the police had a blitz under the old regime before sunset.
Exactly :cup: :cup:
Pollies were looking at it before 4WD Qld and AAAA did nothing
Another correct answer :cup: :cup:
Yep, they bored them to death with an 8 page press release, from what they have said, the gov was going down this path anyway to align with the other states.
And yet another who understands the actual facts :cup: :cup:
KB
Post by: KingBilly on September 21, 2018, 07:57:05 AM
Yeah.. Keyboard warriors we are :cheers:
Glad you agree that you are :cheers:
KB
Post by: Fizzie on September 21, 2018, 08:27:20 AM
the minister regarding this (he’s too much of a prick to hold a discussion with anyone)
& I think that's one thing we can all agree on! >:D
Post by: MrCruza on September 21, 2018, 08:58:28 AM
Glad you agree that you are :cheers:
KB
Get over it KB.
All I did was post a couple of press releases. If all you can do is keyboard bash the only organisations that are trying to represent the 4WD community I suggest you find another pastime.
Post by: KingBilly on September 21, 2018, 10:24:37 AM
Get over it KB.
All I did was post a couple of press releases. If all you can do is keyboard bash the only organisations that are trying to represent the 4WD community I suggest you find another pastime.
Nothing to get over ;D. I have my opinion, you have yours
First you posted a press release from 4WD Qld which had a number of errors. If that is the best “representation” they can offer the 4WD community, I am glad I am not a member.
Then you posted:
Latest media release. ESC owners can rest easy :)But ESC owners NEVER had anything to be concerned about. In fact, this issue has ALWAYS been to benefit vehicles with ESC in Qld.
Suggest instead of attacking me personally via the keyboard, because let’s face it you wouldn’t have the guts to say it to my face, that you re-read my comments. You will see that I never mentioned you when I referred to keyboard warriors, and in fact you were never in my considerations when I was typing my comments, you flatter yourself too much ;D I was referencing all the idiots on social media beating up conspiracy theories.
It was YOU who made this personal. Have a nice day :cheers:
KB
Post by: tryagain on September 21, 2018, 11:06:18 AM
They was never a timeline for the changes to esc vehicles, there were on discussions. People power led by 4wd qld and aaaa got us to this outcome. U can say as must a u want that they did nothing, but without them they wouldn’t have been the pressure on the government. Yes they didn’t have meetings with the minister regarding this (he’s too much of a prick to hold a discussion with anyone) but their constant emails and updates helped to get the outcome a lot sooner.
This is from their press release, stating that the changes were about to happen anyway, I don't think there is anything factual to suggest the outcry had any effect on the outcome, maybe it was officially announced a little bit earlier, but given the following statement, that's probably even doubtful.
Quote
Any vehicle owner who has been issued any defect or infringement notice where your
vehicle has a suspension lift up to 75mm, to write to the “Officer In Charge” of the
police station where the notice was issued, and ask for the infringement to be reviewed
given TMR is about to release new LS9/LS10 modification standards, allowing this lift.
Post by: doc evil on September 21, 2018, 12:36:01 PM
Nothing to get over ;D. I have my opinion, you have yours
First you posted a press release from 4WD Qld which had a number of errors. If that is the best “representation” they can offer the 4WD community, I am glad I am not a member.
Then you posted:But ESC owners NEVER had anything to be concerned about. In fact, this issue has ALWAYS been to benefit vehicles with ESC in Qld.
Suggest instead of attacking me personally via the keyboard, because let’s face it you wouldn’t have the guts to say it to my face, that you re-read my comments. You will see that I never mentioned you when I referred to keyboard warriors, and in fact you were never in my considerations when I was typing my comments, you flatter yourself too much ;D I was referencing all the idiots on social media beating up conspiracy theories.
It was YOU who made this personal. Have a nice day :cheers:
KB
what are ya smokin KB........how on earth does your comment "this issue has ALWAYS been to benefit vehicles with ESC in Qld." when the QLD gubbamint wants vehicles with ESC to be DIFFERENT to other states AND LESS than other states.........where the fork is the benefit in that!!
Maybe a bex and and a lay down?? ;D
Post by: alnjan on September 21, 2018, 07:22:31 PM
And were 4WDQLD or AAAA notified of these changes whilst being discussed at a parliamentary level or is this just a dig at them as they acted once the cat was out of the bag so to speak? Are you affiliated with a 4WDQLD club??? Did you raise your concerns with your club and your club's 4WDQLD representative that pollies were "looking at it" so that it can be actioned?????..........didn't think so!!!!
QLD TMR/Police are still blitzing. Jimboomba was hit yesterday. Don't know to what specs they are checking, but there is some cheap suspension and tyres appearing on the FB pages.
Follow logic. When the NCOP and VSB14 where the latest hype a few years back. The 4wd Associations championed their respective State. Have no idea what 4WD Qld did at the time but for NSW all they did was slap their backs and say we did a good job, when in reality NSW would have been worse then what Qld endorsed in their QCOP if not for AAAA's involvement at the time and really that all came down to practical demonstration that their modified 4wds were better and safer then the standard 4wds.
So please remember when QCOP was introduced and made the amendments re lift and ESC vehicles, the 4WD Qld and AAAA knew all about it back then. In the past couple of years nothing changed. It has all come to light when Police began to enforce the rules made some years earlier. After the outcry following on from the Police blitz the Pollies have reviewed the QCOP, not 4WD Qld or AAAA.
I can't speak for 4WD Qld and no I am not a member of an Club affiliated with 4WD Qld. I was a member of a Club Affiliated with 4WD NSW and as President of that Club during the whole VSB14 restrictions on raising and lowering vehicles, I can most definitely say 4WD NSW did a lot of back slapping and saying we did a great job but they themselves achieved SFA. Thankfully the AAAA did something and achieved a result for NSW.
I could say more about 4WD NSW with not much of it being positive. In then end our Club left the Association as we believed they were not representing it's affiliated Club members as they should and had absolutely no care or consideration for anyone that drove a 4wd outside of their own personal affiliated Clubs members. Yes I had many discussions with 4WD NSW Committee members about a few things. When I reported back to my Club members with Committee's responses, the Club members agreed to leave. I agreed with them. From my understanding not much has since changed at 4WD NSW.
Post by: KingBilly on September 22, 2018, 04:48:47 AM
what are ya smokin KB........how on earth does your comment "this issue has ALWAYS been to benefit vehicles with ESC in Qld." when the QLD gubbamint wants vehicles with ESC to be DIFFERENT to other states AND LESS than other states.........where the fork is the benefit in that!!
Maybe a bex and and a lay down?? ;D
Yaaawwwwwnnnnnnnnn ;D
Perhaps if you are still confused, you should re-read this.
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws)
:cheers:
KB
Post by: plusnq on September 22, 2018, 06:34:38 AM
Yaaawwwwwnnnnnnnnn ;D
Perhaps if you are still confused, you should re-read this.
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws)
:cheers:
KB
Hi KB,
I think the Minister was being a little disingenuous about this given that in March 2017 from their own documents a lift of up to 75mm was allowed. My understanding was they changed it in Oct 2017 to 50mm for vehicles with ESC (this may not be correct though) with no tyre increase allowed. It used to be 50mm suspension and 25mm tyre increase. But there was no real public education programme and so lots of vehicles that were legal became illegal with the stroke of a pen. Here is a copy of the relevant TMR advice dated March 2017. Full link is here
http://www.coastwideengsol.com.au/uploads/2/5/4/1/25415312/qcop.pdf (http://www.coastwideengsol.com.au/uploads/2/5/4/1/25415312/qcop.pdf)
I feel for the Police a bit with the backlash as they just have to do what they are instructed to do. The intent and instructions are nearly always political in nature. It is imho very deceptive of any Government to change the rules and make something that is a widespread practice and legal at the time, suddenly illegal without an appropriate broad and continuing community education programme in place. And then to claim they were going to implement (read revert) the changes anyway was just word games for general consumption and not really reflective of what had happened.
I should add that maybe in the life of a Politician nearly twelve months is a long time, especially for Prime Ministers it seems, but it certainly isn’t beyond the lifespan of a set of tyres and springs 😂😂😂
Cheers
Edited for typos
Post by: tryagain on October 15, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
Post by: Pete79 on October 15, 2018, 06:29:12 PM
Seems like a balanced article coming out in the wash up. Shows that a lot of those social media posts were BS and why it's always best to take them with a grain of salt. http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue055/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Operation+Lift%3A+We+talk+to+an+expert&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+055+-+Send+1#130 (http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue055/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Operation+Lift%3A+We+talk+to+an+expert&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+055+-+Send+1#130)
;D
(https://i.imgur.com/QQpbo4U.jpg)
Pretty sure those are not 31s.... :police:
And that landy's winch/front bar in the ad on the previous page broke about 500 pedestrian safety laws and ADRs as well.... ;)
Well balanced and just as law breaking as the rest of us... :-*
Post by: plusnq on October 15, 2018, 07:16:59 PM
;D
(https://i.imgur.com/QQpbo4U.jpg)
Pretty sure those are not 31s.... :police:
And that landy's winch/front bar in the ad on the previous page broke about 500 pedestrian safety laws and ADRs as well.... ;)
Well balanced and just as law breaking as the rest of us... :-*
That’s Stefan’s Tiny. He just put it up for sale I believe. All engineer approved in nsw apparently.
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-1995/SSE-AD-5233120?Cr=0&fbclid=IwAR0pk8Ek8VOetDG_GCnD9m3d1m3MRzJMofa2gpATz2Pcz9f-EyC4kA5jORA (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-1995/SSE-AD-5233120?Cr=0&fbclid=IwAR0pk8Ek8VOetDG_GCnD9m3d1m3MRzJMofa2gpATz2Pcz9f-EyC4kA5jORA)
He has a walkthrough here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=zWTcv5zgxTA (https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=zWTcv5zgxTA)
.
Post by: Pete79 on October 15, 2018, 07:51:01 PM
That’s Stefan’s Tiny. He just put it up for sale I believe. All engineer approved in nsw apparently.
Looks like a lot of work has gone into that one, but I was just referring to a random pic the ad for Warn winches.
I guess it just shows how hard it is to produce a balanced article AND sell the sponsors wears AND keep the readers attention with amazing pictures.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not having a dig at unsealed, I think (all things considered) they are one of the better ones.
I just liked the way an article about being a responsible 4wd owner and helping show how to follow the rules was splashed with images of illegally modified vehicles.
Once again, not having a dig at this specific publication or the author.
Post by: plusnq on October 16, 2018, 05:19:55 AM
Looks like a lot of work has gone into that one, but I was just referring to a random pic the ad for Warn winches.
I guess it just shows how hard it is to produce a balanced article AND sell the sponsors wears AND keep the readers attention with amazing pictures.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not having a dig at unsealed, I think (all things considered) they are one of the better ones.
I just liked the way an article about being a responsible 4wd owner and helping show how to follow the rules was splashed with images of illegally modified vehicles.
Once again, not having a dig at this specific publication or the author.
Point taken. All good mate. 👍
Post by: #jonesy on October 17, 2018, 05:01:38 AM
Seems like a balanced article coming out in the wash up. Shows that a lot of those social media posts were BS and why it's always best to take them with a grain of salt. http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue055/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Operation+Lift%3A+We+talk+to+an+expert&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+055+-+Send+1#130 (http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue055/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Operation+Lift%3A+We+talk+to+an+expert&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+055+-+Send+1#130)
So pretty much what a lot of members suggested already.
Post by: Scanners on October 25, 2018, 06:16:34 PM
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/10/25/new-4wd-lift-laws-provide-greater-consistency (http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/10/25/new-4wd-lift-laws-provide-greater-consistency)
Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Mark Bailey
Thursday, October 25, 2018
New 4WD lift laws provide greater consistency
Vehicle lift modification laws will be changed in Queensland to create greater consistency for 4WD motorists.
Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said the changes would be in place from 26 October 2018, following the Palaszczuk Government’s announcement last month that it would change the laws to align them with other states.
“The changes to the Queensland Code of Practice follow extensive consultation with industry and 4WD groups over several months,” Mr Bailey said.
“This decision will increase the maximum certifiable lift from 125mm to 150mm, which is consistent with the National Code of Practice and other states.
“The approved lift limit for vehicles with electronic stability control (ESC) will also increase from 50mm to 75mm without certification.
“The changes will provide greater consistency with other jurisdictions for 4WD owners across the country and make it easier for everyone to understand the requirements.
“More than 500 accredited Approved Persons, industry groups, including RACQ and the Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association, major tyre retailers and suspension equipment suppliers have all had the opportunity to provide input.
“The new rules show the Palaszczuk Government’s continued support for the 4WD community, but importantly maintain safety for all road users.”
Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association Chief Executive Officer Stuart Charity welcomed the regulatory changes.
“These changes will give peace of mind to tens of thousands of Queensland vehicle owners who have made safe and responsible modifications to their vehicle,” he said.
“We look forward to engaging in ongoing dialogue with the Minister and his Department to ensure Queensland vehicle standards and regulations strike a balance between the needs of motorists while ensuring safety and ongoing compliance of vehicles on Queensland roads.”
For more information, contact Transport and Main Roads on 13 23 80.
ENDS
Post by: Pete79 on October 25, 2018, 07:17:02 PM
Quote
“These changes will give peace of mind to tens of thousands of Queensland vehicle owners who have made safe and responsible modifications to their vehicle,” he said.
Sadly there’s no peace of mind for those Queensland vehicle owners who had made save and responsible modifications to their vehicles, but where unfortunate enough to get caught up in the police last ditch cash grab on the eave of the change in regulations.
Today it’s safe and legal, yesterday it was safe but targeted for a bit of extra revenue.
Post by: #jonesy on October 26, 2018, 05:16:57 AM
Sadly there’s no peace of mind for those Queensland vehicle owners who had made save and responsible modifications to their vehicles, but where unfortunate enough to get caught up in the police last ditch cash grab on the eave of the change in regulations.The 4 x 4 article lists 81 fines in 3 days. Not sure how much the fine is but if it is $300 that is over $24,300. Sounds a lot until you split it between the 35 police. It wouldnt go half way to paying their wages! Not a great "cash grab"
Today it’s safe and legal, yesterday it was safe but targeted for a bit of extra revenue.
Post by: tryagain on October 26, 2018, 09:21:03 AM
owners who had made safe and responsible modifications to their vehicles, but where unfortunate enough to get caught up in the police last ditch cash grab on the eave of the change in regulations.
I don't know how "responsible" either not knowing the regulations or deliberately contravening is.
Post by: Pete79 on October 26, 2018, 08:41:44 PM
The 4 x 4 article lists 81 fines in 3 days. Not sure how much the fine is but if it is $300 that is over $24,300. Sounds a lot until you split it between the 35 police. It wouldnt go half way to paying their wages! Not a great "cash grab"That was only for the original 3 day training course.
After the training was complete the following blitzes carried out all over the state would have netted a very neat little profit. Burpengary, Glasshouse, Nambour and others are mentioned just in this one thread, it would be safe to say that trend continued all the way north.
The timing of this operation was no accident.
The modifications being specifically targeted were only days away from being made legal.
In my cynical opinion the whole point of this exercise was to fine em while they could, get in on the 11th hour before the laws changed.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on October 29, 2018, 10:01:27 PM
So that it improved the image of the politician(s).
Who will now take credit for easing the situation, to the same rules as the rest of the country.
Post by: JusyApples on October 30, 2018, 08:58:19 AM
Sadly there’s no peace of mind for those Queensland vehicle owners who had made save and responsible modifications to their vehicles, but where unfortunate enough to get caught up in the police last ditch cash grab on the eave of the change in regulations.How is it a police cash grab? That confuses me as you know police don't see a cent.
Today it’s safe and legal, yesterday it was safe but targeted for a bit of extra revenue.
Post by: doc evil on October 30, 2018, 10:00:09 AM
How is it a police cash grab? That confuses me as you know police don't see a cent.
Police are just the pollie's minion...…….
Post by: JusyApples on October 30, 2018, 10:19:17 AM
Police are just the pollie's minion...…….Lol right
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Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 30, 2018, 02:50:07 PM
How is it a police cash grab? That confuses me as you know police don't see a cent.
Its not just this that confuses you either.
Post by: JusyApples on October 30, 2018, 03:59:29 PM
Its not just this that confuses you either.Sure thing champ
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Post by: doc evil on October 31, 2018, 08:56:44 AM
Lol right
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Soooo, you're telling me that all speeding fines, mobile phone use fines, no seatbelt fines (I'm sure you get the picture) etc are for the police coffers and that these fine increases are regularly increased at the police's will...…………..OK...………....…….. ::) ::) ::)
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on October 31, 2018, 09:26:52 AM
Soooo, you're telling me that all speeding fines, mobile phone use fines, no seatbelt fines (I'm sure you get the picture) etc are for the police coffers and that these fine increases are regularly increased at the police's will...…………..OK...………....…….. ::) ::) ::)
Yeah..........right. I know where it goes, and That aint it either.
Sorry Pete.
Post by: JusyApples on October 31, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
Soooo, you're telling me that all speeding fines, mobile phone use fines, no seatbelt fines (I'm sure you get the picture) etc are for the police coffers and that these fine increases are regularly increased at the police's will...…………..OK...………....…….. ::) ::) ::)I believe it goes to consolidated revenue. Fines generally rise 2.5% each year and have done for as long as I can remember. So the old ‘police cash grab’ comment doesn’t make sense, no officer gets a pay rise or a cut of the fines, the police still have the same budget no matter how many fines are issued.
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Post by: alnjan on October 31, 2018, 12:18:29 PM
I believe it goes to consolidated revenue. Fines generally rise 2.5% each year and have done for as long as I can remember. So the old ‘police cash grab’ comment doesn’t make sense, no officer gets a pay rise or a cut of the fines, the police still have the same budget no matter how many fines are issued.
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Governments already have it factored into their yearly budget.
Post by: tryagain on October 31, 2018, 01:20:36 PM
Post by: KingBilly on October 31, 2018, 01:20:52 PM
Governments already have it factored into their yearly budget.
Yep, all state governments would be broke without speed camera fines. Read that Victoria is the most repliant on revenue from fines
KB
Post by: Rumpig on October 31, 2018, 05:54:12 PM
This wasn't a cash grab, too much effort for too little reward. The QLD Labor gov is about to embark on one though, projecting a 47% increase in speeding fine revenue to 237mil/yr over the next 4 years by installing more cameras and an increase in mobile speed camera hours!they may as well, because thier Police presence on the roads here is woefully inadequate, so it's not like they make any coin from fines that way or put the thought in people's minds to slow down at all.
Post by: edz on October 31, 2018, 06:44:35 PM
Post by: #jonesy on November 01, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
This wasn't a cash grab, too much effort for too little reward. The QLD Labor gov is about to embark on one though, projecting a 47% increase in speeding fine revenue to 237mil/yr over the next 4 years by installing more cameras and an increase in mobile speed camera hours!Wow what a lot of money $237,000,000.
Qld population 4.7 mil
$50 per person!!!!
Road trauma costs the Australian economy $27,000,000,000 per year or $1,000 per person.
Yep. Super profitable
Of course they factor fine revenue in to the economy. Not become they are greedy. Same as the factor some overheads like prisons. Doesn't mean they plan to lock us all up.
Post by: tryagain on November 02, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Wow what a lot of money $237,000,000.
Qld population 4.7 mil
$50 per person!!!!
Road trauma costs the Australian economy $27,000,000,000 per year or $1,000 per person.
Yep. Super profitable
Of course they factor fine revenue in to the economy. Not become they are greedy. Same as the factor some overheads like prisons. Doesn't mean they plan to lock us all up.
Whatever way you try and spin it it's a cash grab, A successful road safety campaign to get people to actually slow down and reduce the trauma costs would result in fewer people speeding and a reduction in revenue. They obviously think people are just going to keep on speeding, hence their ability to keep on handing out an ever increasing amount of fines.
Quote
QPU president Ian Leavers said the “sneaky” devices did not reduce the state’s road toll or stop people from speeding.
“Getting a ticket in the mail up to a month after speeding when you can barely remember even where you were back then, has no effect and is quite rightly cynically viewed as revenue raising,” he said on Sunday.
“Only a highly visible policing presence and highly marked police speed camera vans with large police decals all over them staffed by police are the way to address the road toll.”
Leavers said the use of covert cameras had damaged the reputation of police officers across Queensland.
Post by: Bird on November 02, 2018, 10:15:58 AM
Quote from: Rumpig
They may as well, because thier Police presence on the roads here is woefully inadequate, so it's not like they make any coin from fines that way or put the thought in people's minds to slow down at all.its like every long weekend... they keep SAYING there will be record numbers of cops on the road - they just dont mention record LOW numbers of cops... Its actually rare weekdays to see a cop car driving around.
First thing people do when they see a cop car is check their speedo... As said - people slowing down doesn't make money.
Post by: edz on November 02, 2018, 10:54:21 AM
Post by: Rumpig on November 02, 2018, 11:26:57 AM
Another train of thought would be to up the speed limits [ Reverse psycology ] like in the NT .. Your allowed to go faster but most actualy wont .. you will always get the few that will still go nuts / but they would have anyway .sitting on 95kph (was very hot and vehicles temp gauge would rise if I did 100kph) a few years back heading from Mataranka to Darwin, I was only overtaken by 2 vehicles in over 300klms of road....one was a mine company 4wd (he wasn’t paying for the fuel) and the second guy was in a sporty Ford Mustang (i’d have been doing 130kph in it also)....the cost of fuel stops many (especially those towing) from doing over 100kph for extended long runs.
Post by: Me on November 04, 2018, 04:01:31 PM
The police don't need to be mechanics, or engineers, because that not what they're there for. They're there to police laws.
It's not rocket science to observe an oversized lift, or tyres that don't comply. It's stands out like the proverbial.
By all means do the "look at me, look at me" mods if that's your thing, but man up & stop whinging about getting defected & stop blaming the police for doing their job when you do.
You took the risk & you got caught. Own it!
Post by: Bigfish on November 04, 2018, 04:56:07 PM
sitting on 95kph (was very hot and vehicles temp gauge would rise if I did 100kph) a few years back heading from Mataranka to Darwin, I was only overtaken by 2 vehicles in over 300klms of road....one was a mine company 4wd (he wasn’t paying for the fuel) and the second guy was in a sporty Ford Mustang (i’d have been doing 130kph in it also)....the cost of fuel stops many (especially those towing) from doing over 100kph for extended long runs.
When I drove the highway I always sat on 130kph. Work Toyota, my troopy or motorbikes. I found I concentrated a hell of a lot more than when I did on 100kph. Even when cruising on my motorbike it was 130kph. Often had to overtake slower vehicles but once again your awareness is a great deal more than sitting on a mind numbing 100kph.
Post by: Rumpig on November 04, 2018, 07:18:49 PM
When I drove the highway I always sat on 130kph. Work Toyota, my troopy or motorbikes. I found I concentrated a hell of a lot more than when I did on 100kph. Even when cruising on my motorbike it was 130kph. Often had to overtake slower vehicles but once again your awareness is a great deal more than sitting on a mind numbing 100kph.was sitting on 130kph with the camper in tow on a trip this year, can't say I found it that big a deal concentration wise on those roads in the middle of nowhere....obvious main differance was how quickly you come up on slower moving vehicles, but with the big open expanses out there you usually just shot past many of them and kept going on your way. Yeah you did need to be prepared to brake for oncoming vehicles or slow up a touch behind people on less open sections of road, but it's no different to normal overtaking in 100kph zones if you are watching the road ahead. Sitting on 100kph I just set the cruise control and have the tunes cranking, it's only a state of mind thing as far as being mind numbing or not IMO..
Post by: nab on November 04, 2018, 09:08:09 PM
... Sitting on 100kph I just set the cruise control and have the tunes cranking, it's only a state of mind thing as far as being mind numbing or not IMO..
X2. Ive done the Nullarbor a few times and don’t find it mind numbing at all. Sure, there are times it would be nice to put the foot down and cover some quick kms but doesn’t bother me one bit.
Post by: DaveR on November 10, 2018, 06:55:32 AM
When I drove the highway I always sat on 130kph. Work Toyota, my troopy or motorbikes. I found I concentrated a hell of a lot more than when I did on 100kph. Even when cruising on my motorbike it was 130kph. Often had to overtake slower vehicles but once again your awareness is a great deal more than sitting on a mind numbing 100kph.
Amen to that one, I lived in Europe for a while and love cruising down the motorways at speed, it is a great experience, everyone is alert, lots of caution used, and there are real government stats showing few bad prangs, compared to our terrible M1 here on the Gold Coast for eg.
Post by: DaveR on November 10, 2018, 06:58:10 AM
Few cheap ones out there now if ya looking. ;D
Post by: Fizzie on November 10, 2018, 08:39:24 AM
How's things going with the new business - sound's like you're busy ???
Post by: DaveR on November 10, 2018, 07:07:47 PM
G'day Dave, good to hear from you :D
How's things going with the new business - sound's like you're busy ???
Ummmmm?
Not the best to be honest, I basically bought a truck that can do what a $150,000 worth can do for $50,000, thinking I am still young and bullet proof, so I can fix it all up easy.
Well it seems I am not as capable as i was once upon a time. I have spent nearly every weekend sorting it out since April. Now, near completion, I am looking to possibly sell it.
The truck it self, I Mitsubishi Fuso is great with almost a million k's on it and still going strong averaging 25 litres per 100 km weighting 20 tonne all up, but the deck was ruined which I have almost fixed. That's the bit I am struggling with.
Good bit is, I can see the end of the tunnel and am almost there.
Then, back to camping..... ;D
Post by: Fizzie on November 11, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Then, back to camping..... ;D
:cup:
:cheers:
Post by: Pete79 on June 02, 2019, 12:12:50 PM
Looks like so far they have done 2 rangers and a navara for modifications.
All 3 are parked up with lifts and bigger tyres.
Post by: Bigfish on June 02, 2019, 02:12:02 PM
There’s a blitz set up right now on Creek Rd in Brissy (opposite side of the road, just up from Bunnings/Cannon Hill shops).
Looks like so far they have done 2 rangers and a navara for modifications.
All 3 are parked up with lifts and bigger tyres.
They should be good. We all know that its impossible to drive on dirt roads without a 4inch lift and 35 inch tyres.... :D
Post by: Pete79 on June 02, 2019, 02:16:40 PM
This ute was easy lifted 4 to 5 inches.
I was wondering what the strange noise was that I could hear as we drove along.... then I realized it was his CVs screaming in agony.... :D
Post by: JusyApples on June 02, 2019, 06:40:59 PM
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Post by: Rumpig on June 02, 2019, 08:18:59 PM
Driven about 4000kms in qld in last 4 weeks. Barely seen a cop. Maybe 4 or 5 in total.that's standard operational procedure here in Qld...the one thing I notice straight away when leaving Qld and going over the border, is just how much higher the Police visual presence is.
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Post by: Bird on June 03, 2019, 10:10:03 AM
Quote from: JusyApples
Driven about 4000kms in qld in last 4 weeks. Barely seen a cop. Maybe 4 or 5 in total.
Same here in Vic, but they are spending more $$ on unmarked cars.. no money to be made from people who see a cop car and check their speed.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on June 03, 2019, 10:23:15 AM
So they're out there, you've just gotta look harder to see 'em.
While your lookin' for Police Cars and Camera Cars, you miss the stuff that really matters.
Post by: Kangaron on June 03, 2019, 02:54:26 PM
Post by: #jonesy on June 05, 2019, 06:20:18 PM
They're getting BMW's for the Traffic Blokes in Victoria nowadays.don't need to look for them. It doesn't matter if your not doing the wrong thing.
So they're out there, you've just gotta look harder to see 'em.
While your lookin' for Police Cars and Camera Cars, you miss the stuff that really matters.
Post by: weeds on June 05, 2019, 08:10:04 PM
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Post by: rags on June 05, 2019, 10:20:33 PM
I don't think they were helping change a flat tyre.
Post by: cardinal28 on June 06, 2019, 12:13:19 PM
Post by: Bigfish on June 06, 2019, 01:51:24 PM
Not a mod blitz - but this is happening in Bundy at the moment
Good stuff. should be double what they test now. Still too many pissed/drugged or texting drivers on the road.
Post by: Bird on June 06, 2019, 02:16:49 PM
Not a mod blitz - but this is happening in Bundy at the momentnight after state of origin... they'd get a few