MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: fuzz on October 20, 2016, 10:06:09 PM
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Start our build soon and have been trying to figure out a good approach to being somewhat 'footprint' conscious.....plan is solar and a 7kw Tesla.....looks interesting but interested to know thoughts on those who have perhaps gone down this road??? It will be a 4 bedroom house, aircon, pool and all the rest of the gadgets having a young family brings with it...
I'm also reading that the 7kw storage is only able to deliver 2kw at peak output which is not great when you consider the investment cost and there seems to be a suggestion that 2 batteries would be a minimum for homes the size of ours.....ouch$$$$$.
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Yep, OUCH is right!!!
What is wrong with a system, when you have to get twice the capacity to get 1/2 the output?
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Don't give in to the hype about the powerwall. Overpriced and underwhelming.
There are plenty of other more affordable systems out there.
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Have a look at the Aussie Redflow system. Had many advantages over the Tesla solution. Not least it can't catch fire, can be fully discharged without damage.
Here it is: https://www.zcell.com (https://www.zcell.com)
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Using new panels and new tesla will take about 27yrs to recoupe your money. Plenty of info about too ( just finished night shift to tied to find links. Just do heaps of research. Solar is still good idea not tesla , as said there are other ways with solar.
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Using new panels and new tesla will take about 27yrs to recoupe your money. Plenty of info about too ( just finished night shift to tied to find links. Just do heaps of research. Solar is still good idea not tesla , as said there are other ways with solar.
but are they as trendy?
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In the DIY spirit of myswag.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk50IuWXg-c#)
I don't think the cells are as easy to come by bulk here in Aus however and you want to make sure you know what you are doing before you play with lithium batteries.
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In the DIY spirit of myswag.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk50IuWXg-c#)
I don't think the cells are as easy to come by bulk here in Aus however and you want to make sure you know what you are doing before you play with lithium batteries.
thanks for finding that. I came across it a while ago and couldn't find it again.
One of the later vids is quite interesting. This is the equivalent of 45 Power-walls and it's made from commercially available (in the US at least)
https://youtu.be/9kXTqNqxK3s (https://youtu.be/9kXTqNqxK3s)
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We're looking at zcell or enphase storage, panels will be decided by the storage, solar inverter heat pumps for heating and cooling...
And a product similar to Zego for construction...
Hoping for at least a 7 Star rated home
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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mmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Batteries do not make economic sense yet
Plenty of whirlpool threads - even guys selling systems say they don't make sense for normal residential houses
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143
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Batteries do not make economic sense yet
Plenty of whirlpool threads - even guys selling systems say they don't make sense for normal residential houses
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143
Asked my brother who works in Solar and he said batteries don't make financial sense yet if you are on the grid.
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Asked my brother who works in Solar and he said batteries don't make financial sense yet if you are on the grid.
With the tariffs now gone, even solar needs some serious thought if on grid.
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I'm a solar installer and I see both sides.
Solar is crapola if you are not using the power during the day.
But a lot of people do. I have lots of very satisfied customers who are saving money.
Even just a small system to run you pool and standby stuff is worth it.
As far as batteries go, the price is steadily dropping and now batteries are affordable, and getting cheaper by the day.
A good quality system set up properly will save you a lot of money, but it's like everything else, you need to do your research and talk to professionals.
For some people a cheap chinese camper suits their needs, but to some who are promised the world by a cheesy salesman, then try to live in it for 6 months crossing the country it turns out very bad.....
Solar is no different. Knowledge is the key.
The glossy brochures and salesman speels are for the suckers.
If the bloke talking to you isn't installing it, tell him to keep walking, he's just making coin selling sales leads......
I have plenty of customers I have recommended not to get it, but plenty who I said it would work for and it does.
Cheers
Brian
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With the tariffs now gone, even solar needs some serious thought if on grid.
Depends on where you are. SA has seen a huge increase in prices lately so it would look attractive there, the eastern states aren't quite as bad - yet.
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Depends on where you are. SA has seen a huge increase in prices lately so it would look attractive there, the eastern states aren't quite as bad - yet.
Symon, is that a increase of elect prices ? Product of privatisation ??
As for Brian, I run almost nothing during the day ( pool runs during the night....I'm on smart meter ), so solar now for me ( and yrs left at present residence unknown ) is probably not viable.
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(http://www.clarencecoastpropertymaintenance.com.au/images/smilies/nothingtoadd.gif)
This interests us greatly, we have 3.8 kw system, and we want to know what/where to go next.
:cheers:
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Powerwall is a cult. Like iPhone. Just less useful and priced higher
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Powerwall is a cult. Like iPhone. Just less useful and priced higher
Apple have been a dominant force for a long time. Now the opposition have caught up ..
Know several people who swore by apple, now have galaxy androids and shake their heads at the lack of things the apple can do.
The powerwall is for people who think they're getting a mini Tesla to bolt to the wall..........must admit it looks nice......maybe they could bring it out in the same different colours of the Tesla ?
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Batteries do not make economic sense yet
Plenty of whirlpool threads - even guys selling systems say they don't make sense for normal residential houses
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143
Asked my brother who works in Solar and he said batteries don't make financial sense yet if you are on the grid.
Might not be economical in case of $$$ just yet, but I belive that this method will be the way of the future for reduction of carbon emmissions. I think it makes enviromental sense
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Might not be economical in case of $$$ just yet, but I belive that this method will be the way of the future for reduction of carbon emmissions. I think it makes enviromental sense
Maybe?? But for the increased manufacture of batteries, how much more energy needs to be expended to make them.......don't forget they would be manufactured in 3rd world countries ( China, India, Bangladesh )with coal fired power stations !!
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http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2016/08/how-much-money-does-teslas-powerwall-actually-save-on-your-power-bill/ (http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2016/08/how-much-money-does-teslas-powerwall-actually-save-on-your-power-bill/)
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Maybe?? But for the increased manufacture of batteries, how much more energy needs to be expended to make them.......don't forget they would be manufactured in 3rd world countries ( China, India, Bangladesh )with coal fired power stations !!
The more we use renewables and storage the less of an impact the manucature of these products will create. I dont think goverments really get the urgency of reducing green house emissions - I want a decent world for my kids to live in and at the current rate we are going its not going to happen
China is actively reducing its coal power more than most other countries around the world - with the air polloution they have there wasnt really any other choice. Granted India dosent seem to mind burning coal into the near and far future. Jesus Im sounding like some unwashed hippie :-[
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The more we use renewables and storage the less of an impact the manucature of these products will create. I dont think goverments really get the urgency of reducing green house emissions - I want a decent world for my kids to live in and at the current rate we are going its not going to happen
China is actively reducing its coal power more than most other countries around the world - with the air polloution they have there wasnt really any other choice. Granted India dosent seem to mind burning coal into the near and far future. Jesus Im sounding like some unwashed hippie :-[
Check out lithium mining and it's environmental impact lately?
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http://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/ (http://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/)
give this mob a call. i recently priced a stand alone setup through them, and it was 40 grand, but thats with 50kw of batteries, they use AGM batteries, which i would prefer over lithium, as cost per kw is way better, 7kw wouldnt even last a whole night, as far as i'm concerned if your going to get batteries, get something that will do the job properly.
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ok so my main motivation is not financial (setup or tariffs for supplying to the grid)......I'm no hippy (or millionaire for that matter) but I care more about having a setup that will reduce my power consumption as priority #1....anything else is a bonus.
In saying that obviously no-one wants to invest 1000's of $$ to still have a relatively large power bill every quarter.........
There have been 1 or two things mentioned in this thread about alternatives, not much in the way of what others actually do/have done/install for others.......am left wondering if many of us are even travelling down this path and that is perhaps why???
At the end of the day I want to build a house, solar, electric storage HW, peak power usage setup during the day, battery storage that can deliver the needs of my house during the night.......i have around 20k to put something together initially and I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty .......Tesla looks like the solve but I was concerned about it's delivery capabilities......do other systems have these same issues?? Again, any thoughts from those who are playing this game would be great.....
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Yep, same here.
3.8kw system that will be make power for some one else. We have had solar Hot Water for a few years now.
With both of us working and the kids(3) in school using as much power as possible during the day isn't an option, Unless we can train the dogs to do the washing, vacuum, weld ???
So we need a system where we can store energy for when we get home, in winter this is well after the sun as gone to bed.
ATM I'm looking into a led light system, something very similar to our camping needs, 12V, couple of Deep Cycle Batteries and a 200w Solar panel.
We also have a small geny for emergencies, it does keep the Household 600lt fridge/freezer(2 Adults/3 Teenagers) going in black outs.
What's frustrating, nobody can come up with a solution that fits the box, everyone whats to sell ya something and confuse you with BS.
I'll keep searching ;D
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ok so my main motivation is not financial (setup or tariffs for supplying to the grid)......I'm no hippy (or millionaire for that matter) but I care more about having a setup that will reduce my power consumption as priority #1....anything else is a bonus.
In saying that obviously no-one wants to invest 1000's of $$ to still have a relatively large power bill every quarter.........
There have been 1 or two things mentioned in this thread about alternatives, not much in the way of what others actually do/have done/install for others.......am left wondering if many of us are even travelling down this path and that is perhaps why???
At the end of the day I want to build a house, solar, electric storage HW, peak power usage setup during the day, battery storage that can deliver the needs of my house during the night.......i have around 20k to put something together initially and I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty .......Tesla looks like the solve but I was concerned about it's delivery capabilities......do other systems have these same issues?? Again, any thoughts from those who are playing this game would be great.....
Hybrid power generation?
Throw in a wind turbine. Then the potential for power feed back into your storage is 24hrs a day. That may help negate the need for having such a massive battery storage system.
Cheers Glen
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The more we use renewables and storage the less of an impact the manucature of these products will create. I dont think goverments really get the urgency of reducing green house emissions - I want a decent world for my kids to live in and at the current rate we are going its not going to happen
If you really are that concerned then you are more effective by just reducing your consumption. Feeding our energy hungry lifestyle is where the problem is.
China is actively reducing its coal power more than most other countries around the world - with the air polloution they have there wasnt really any other choice. Granted India dosent seem to mind burning coal into the near and far future. Jesus Im sounding like some unwashed hippie :-[
They are only doing that around the major centres. Out in the countryside away from the international media they are still building them at a rate of about one station every month.
With both of us working and the kids(3) in school using as much power as possible during the day isn't an option, Unless we can train the dogs to do the washing, vacuum, weld ???
Get a washing machine with a timer, load it at night when you are home and have it run at the middle of the day when the solar is doing its thing. Hang it up when you get home.
Those robotic vacuums work pretty well too, again have it come on in the middle of the day.
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Hybrid power generation?
Throw in a wind turbine. Then the potential for power feed back into your storage is 24hrs a day. That may help negate the need for having such a massive battery storage system.
Cheers Glen
Not a realistic option for the vast majority of us-
http://www.energymatters.com.au/components/wind-power-guide/ (http://www.energymatters.com.au/components/wind-power-guide/)
Even the cockies have given up on windmills and use solar powered electric pumps for their bores, but then intermittent output is not an issue for stock watering purposes. Similarly the best use of commercial wind power is for desalination when we're not up to our tits in flooding rains.
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With both of us working and the kids(3) in school using as much power as possible during the day isn't an option, Unless we can train the dogs to do the washing, vacuum, weld ???
So we need a system where we can store energy for when we get home, in winter this is well after the sun as gone to bed.
Run your air con during the day to cool the house down and keep it cool. Turn it off in the evening. Same for hearing. Run it higher during the day and turn it off/down at night
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Not a realistic option for the vast majority of us-
http://www.energymatters.com.au/components/wind-power-guide/ (http://www.energymatters.com.au/components/wind-power-guide/)
Even the cockies have given up on windmills and use solar powered electric pumps for their bores, but then intermittent output is not an issue for stock watering purposes. Similarly the best use of commercial wind power is for desalination when we're not up to our tits in flooding rains.
Don't know why they are bothering building wind farms if it doesn't work in Australia.
Think you will find solar powered bore pumps are cost effective against windmills due to less maintenance, and may even be cheaper now on outright purchase.
Granted they don't work when theres no wind, but that's why they have header tanks and dams next to them, as do the bore pumps.
According to government figures we don't really lack that much wind nation wide.
http://www.finance.wa.gov.au/cms/uploadedFiles/Public_Utilities_Office/Energy_in_WA/Renewable_energy/mean-wind-speed-2008.pdf (http://www.finance.wa.gov.au/cms/uploadedFiles/Public_Utilities_Office/Energy_in_WA/Renewable_energy/mean-wind-speed-2008.pdf)
Anyhowse, I'm just giving the OP something to throw into the mix.
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It's a pity we can't just plug our camping solar panels into our current system when we are not camping, seems a pity to store them in the shed for next trip.
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We've got a 4kw system. Split 50/50 over north and west roof space to generate more power into the afternoon when we can use it better. Pool pump goes in the morning while we are mostly out. Washing machine and dishwasher have timers so can be used in the day, or on off peak.
I thought about getting the extra solar power generated fed into the hot water system which is currently off peak, but typically we use most hot water in the evening so the sun power wouldn't heat it and the extra $ to upgrade aren't worth it.
$ wise it still isn't very efficient, but like fuzz, it's partially about being more green. All our lighting is led or flouro, I think the only incandescently left are in the fridge and oven. Reasonably efficient appliances etc help.
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http://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/lg-chem-resu-6-4ex-vs-tesla-powerwall/ (http://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/lg-chem-resu-6-4ex-vs-tesla-powerwall/)
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Have a look at the Green Tech section on Whirlpool: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143 (https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143), as there are quite a few people asking the same sort of question eg https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2467813 (https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2467813)
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Don't know why they are bothering building wind farms if it doesn't work in Australia.....
Anyhowse, I'm just giving the OP something to throw into the mix.
Commercial wind farms are very selective of sites and with 40M long blades they need to be at least 30M above anything on the ground which is why you see those >70M high towers stuck on top of bald hills. Even if your city or town has suitable wind (my city Adelaide doesn't as the State Govt tested them atop CBD office towers), you try getting a suitable height above your roof apex, domestic turbine tower past your Council. Even if you could it would be beggar thy neighbour policy due to the need to space such turbines.
By the way, last year Australia's mainland wind farms produced virtually no wind power for nearly 62 hours with only useable wind available in Tasmania. So much for thinking geographic diversity would be the cure-all for fickle wind power.
PS: Bear in mind here with large commercial wind turbines they don't operate below 5M/sec wind and they actually consume power from the grid but it's something the industry won't release figures on for the obvious-
http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html (http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html)
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Thought this was about a domestic green energy system?
This local Perth mob have a wind turbine design ideally suited to domestic use, but red tape means they are not worrying about the domestic market yet.
http://www.windpods.com/index.html (http://www.windpods.com/index.html)
They have branched out into Asia and the USA. Roof top installation is ideal as the roof gable compresses the wind. They are also inserting them into of buildings, walls, bridges etc, anywhere wind is compressed to maximize the potential energy.
Here in the west they would be ideal.
Hybrid solar and wind is the way of the future, just need to get the regulators to take the hand brakes off. Its very difficult to get domestic approval for a wind turbine installation here in the west, even if they are non intrusive. I can understand the reluctance of allowing traditional wind turbines in suburbia, but a blanket ban on them is stupid.
Its not too often there's no wind or no sun in sunny (and windy) WA.