MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: prodigyrf on September 20, 2015, 12:34:30 AM
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With a novel approach-
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/der_smogglewagen/ (http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/der_smogglewagen/)
Who needs all those DPF deletes, chip mods, catch cans, EGR mods, etc when just the right app will do?
Unfortunately they've been hacked and are currently discussing this minor glitch with Ashley Madison directors >:D
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Don't solve the problem, go around it......
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Don't solve the problem, go around it......
And risk an $18 billion US fine in the process! :'(
Very disappointing really,
Das Auto,
Das cheats!
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Knowing that they strive for technical execelence at everything they do, Maybe, just maybe they came to the conclusion that the limitations and targets to cut pollutants put on them were impractical to meet and still have usable engines ..
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Knowing that they strive for technical execelence at everything they do, Maybe, just maybe they came to the conclusion that the limitations and targets to cut pollutants put on them were impractical to meet and still have usable engines ..
That's the only conclusion you can come to with the helluva commercial risk they were taking here. All to avoid the added cost of Adblue additive to aid catalysing NOx emissions for new diesel owners I suspect-
http://www.shell.com.au/products-services/on-the-road/fuels/adblue.html (http://www.shell.com.au/products-services/on-the-road/fuels/adblue.html)
Added to EGR, DPF problems, etc you have to suspect the writing is on the wall for domestic diesel use now and Subaru are first cab off the rank telling it like it is to potential owners-
http://www.subaru.com.au/car-advice/benefits-of-a-diesel-engine (http://www.subaru.com.au/car-advice/benefits-of-a-diesel-engine)
The money quote-
"So again it is clear that a diesel engine vehicle requires a driving style and method of use that is only suitable for longer distances and higher loads! If this is your particular method of use and you travel high kilometres then a diesel engine vehicle is particularly suitable due to the fuel efficiency and environmental performance. But if you normally travel short distances then a petrol engine is a better choice."
Or if mum's using it as a shopping trolley how often should you have the vac bag up the exhaust cleaned from $450 plus freight both ways after you've had it removed for cleaning?
http://www.overlandmechanicalservices.com.au/diesel_particulate_filter_cleaning?gclid=CJq6qdC7gsgCFUGUvQodbfYOHQ (http://www.overlandmechanicalservices.com.au/diesel_particulate_filter_cleaning?gclid=CJq6qdC7gsgCFUGUvQodbfYOHQ)
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How could a firm like VW possibly believe they wouldn't be found out eventually and at what cost?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vw-scandal-how-four-students-uncovered-volkswagens-diesel-dodge/story-fni0fiyv-1227542286720 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vw-scandal-how-four-students-uncovered-volkswagens-diesel-dodge/story-fni0fiyv-1227542286720)
As a new car buyer you have to be really circumspect about buying any diesel now after that gobsmacking revelation.
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& l said to Fritz over a few :cheers: " Vot could possibly go wrong ??? ???" >:D
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They reckon it could bankrupt the company !! Even though the president that just resigned gets a 67 million dollar handshake ??
If you've got a VW that needs warranty work ( which ones don't ).....get in quick !! ;D
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This mob " They Reckon " seem well informed .l would do a runner if the package was something like that . Even a bit less would do :cheers:
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didn't I read somewhere that "Mr 4x4" himself (Pat Callinan) had switched from Nissan to VW?
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Without the engine issue, what of the wheels? I am still in utter disbelief that a mate pulled into my driveway with a top model Touareg (now he calls it ToeRag) and a leaking tyre. Builders nail in it so we go looking for the spare.
A FRIKKING POP UP SPACE SAVER!!!! >:D >:D
Not just a space saver on a teeny rim, but it comes with a VW pump (hope it didn't pollute my air) that is needed to expand and pump the tyre up before using at low speed for short distance.
OMG.
Go out to your spare tyre today, check it is real, check the pressure, and hug it.
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didn't I read somewhere that "Mr 4x4" himself (Pat Callinan) had switched from Nissan to VW?
Yep !! some multy year deal to promote them... ;D
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Hope he got paid up front >:D & not $ as you go cause their Gone ,,,,,,,, :cheers:
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(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac263/johnnofishing/herbie_scr_zpsmoau34oy.jpg) (http://s906.photobucket.com/user/johnnofishing/media/herbie_scr_zpsmoau34oy.jpg.html)
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Without the engine issue, what of the wheels? I am still in utter disbelief that a mate pulled into my driveway with a top model Touareg (now he calls it ToeRag) and a leaking tyre. Builders nail in it so we go looking for the spare.
A FRIKKING POP UP SPACE SAVER!!!! >:D >:D
...and when you change the tyre where do you put the full size flat one. My Mrs Commodore came with the option of a can of foam and a tyre pump, a space saver or a full size alloy and tyre, we got the full size alloy for $0, they stuffed up the lease quote :)
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I'm stunned they're still advertising. There's no way I'd part with cash for a VW until this fiasco is resolved. Even once it is, the stench might never go away.
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........ the stench might never go away.
Time cures all.....they got over the connection with the Third Reich....
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Realy we all break the rules seperating our rubbish, we buy cheaper fuel because it's cheaper not more efficient.... VW is being made out to be a leach on society and the banks ect never get called up.
Good on them for having a go ,bad on them for not taking pollution seriously but at least they will still keep running a car industry into the future and keeping tens of
Thousands of people in work without a lifetime of govt handouts and make quality cars unlike ford and holden that are going to just rebadge Shit from Shit companies like opel voxel and suspect American gm models.
If you condemned VW for this you should a burned your holden when they sold you out on economics
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Well dales, most affected owners probably won't be too concerned their VW diesel performs better than it would if it had to comply with the relevant jurisdictional NOx emission standards. Now presumably for many EU countries and US states like California that meant Adblue additive which keeps the catalytic converter to control NOx emissions clean and doing its mandated job. I was chatting to a diesel mech at the cara park and he mentioned Adblue is $1.65/L here but I forgot to ask how much diesels fitted with it consume. Anyone know as with DPF and EGR/inlet manifold clogging costs, the benefits of diesels are rapidly deteriorating for new purchasers now.
In that regard I heard an analyst on radio today saying he thought this VW scam situation had illuminated the problem of 'peak diesel' for all makers now. In Oz with around 50,000 of these cars already lawyers Maurice Blackburn have mooted a class action by consumers and the ACCC are rumbling too. He pointed out that Europe had encouraged diesels and as such European manufacturers were heavily invested in diesels whereas US in particular was more heavily invested in electric and hybrid cars. Thinking about that I'd conclude the US makers would have a strong incentive to back US EPA fines and restitution by a maker like VW in order to really strangle a global competitor, as if the regulators and greenies will need any encouragement here.
In that sense you can see that while most owners might be comfortable with their cheat cars, the regualtory authorities will demand they be brought up to standards and if that means performance suffers and/or suddenly owners are having to cop Adblue additive and they sense resale/trade-in prices will suffer then they'll naturally demand compensation from VW on top of the fines. All in all it's a disaster not just for VW owners directly affected but diesels altogether. That's where I think 'peak diesel' is a very apt descriptor here.
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None of this hoo-haa with a TD42T.....
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An Olde but A Goodie :cup: :cheers:
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but at least they will still keep running a car industry into the future and keeping tens of
Thousands of people in work
If I was one of those tens of thousands, right about now I'd be worried !! ??? ???
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True.
But they will come out of this ok,its such an iconic brand
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Rumours on social media that BMW may have done something similar >:D
KB
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Rumours on social media that BMW may have done something similar >:D
KB
Bet their not the only ones either ! .
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Ill bet it isnt just diesels either
If people really gave a stuff about emissions they wouldnt buy new cars
Much of their lifes pollution is in manufacture
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Rumours on social media that BMW may have done something similar >:D
KB
Seeing as a BMW was tested along with 2 VW's by the 2 uni students and their 2 professors and returned results exactly the same as their claimed emissions, I highly doubt it. The 2 VW's returned emissions readings 20 to 30 times what they claim.
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"Executive Summary
This report [Mind the Gap] provides new evidence and understanding on why there is a growing gap
between the official fuel consumption and CO2 emissions of new passenger cars and vans
and that which is achieved by the same vehicles on the road. It demonstrates that the
current (NEDC) test is outdated and unrepresentative of real-world driving and current
vehicles, and that lax testing procedures are allowing carmakers to manipulate the official
tests to produce unrealistically low results. The report also shows that the current
supervision of testing and checks on production vehicles (to ensure these are equivalent to
tested vehicles) are inconsistent and inadequate, with manufacturers paying the
organisations undertaking and certifying the tests. The conclusion is that the current system
for measuring car and van fuel economy and CO2 emissions is not fit for purpose and is in
need to urgent updating.
Why representative, robust fuel economy and CO2 emissions data from vehicles are
essential
Providing reliable information about the fuel economy of cars helps drivers choose models
with lower running costs. Having accurate tests of vehicle carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions is
essential to enable governments to levy the correct level of vehicle taxes and ensure
regulations to reduce emissions from new cars are effective.
All drivers know that it is usually impossible to achieve the official manufacturer fuel
efficiency figures, and for some individual models the real-world emissions are now 50%
higher than the test results. The gap between official test results and typical real-world
driving performance is also growing. In Germany, the gap has increased from 7% on
average in 2001 to 23% in 2011 and consequently only half the anticipated improvement in
fuel economy (of 1 l/ 100km) has been achieved on the road. For drivers, this is adding
around €2,000 to the fuel costs of the vehicle over its lifetime. Data from Germany is
supported by other studies from the Netherlands and Switzerland. The growing gap is
leading drivers to become increasingly distrustful of official data on fuel economy, making
them less likely to consider buying a more fuel efficient vehicle.
Three reasons why the gap is growing
There is no evidence that the growing gap is caused by changes in the way cars are used
and driven. Instead, the evidence shows three principal causes:
1. The current test is unrepresentative of real-world cars and driving. Much of the
technology introduced to improve efficiency of cars is far more effective in the test than on
the road. For example, technology to switch off the engine when the vehicle is stationary is
very effective during the test when the vehicle is stationary for 20% of the cycle.
2. Cars are also increasingly fitted with energy-guzzling accessories like airconditioning,
navigation and media systems, heated-seats, etc. This equipment is not
switched on during the test and by omitting the energy consumed, the official test results are
lowered.
3. The current (NEDC) test procedures to measure CO2 and fuel consumption are
outdated and lax and contain many loopholes that carmakers are increasingly exploiting to
lower the results.
Mind the Gap! | Page 6
How carmakers manipulate test procedures
A substantial body of evidence, including a new expert study for the European Commission,
shows the many ways carmakers are able to manipulate test results. By creative
interpretation of the test procedures carmakers are able to achieve multiple small
improvements that lower the test results as illustrated in the Figure.
The test comes in two main parts - a road load test and a laboratory test - and the results of
both can be manipulated. During the road load part of the test, the air and rolling resistance
of the car is measured and the results used during the subsequent laboratory test. In the
laboratory test the car is driven on a rolling road through a test cycle comprising a series of
accelerations, steady state driving and decelerations. Fuel economy and CO2 emissions are
measured throughout the test. The results of the road load test are used to set the
resistance of the rolling road (how difficult it is for the car wheels to turn the rollers).
- The road load test
When the road load test procedures were drafted 30 years ago, no-one expected carmakers
to adjust the brakes, pump up the tyres, and tape up all the cracks around the doors and
windows to reduce the air and rolling resistance. These practices are now commonplace,
with testing facilities being paid to optimise the results of the tests. There is no evidence that
carmakers are breaking any formal rules - but they don’t need to - the current test
procedures are so lax there is ample opportunity to massage the test results.
Testing undertaken by an independent laboratory has found that for older vehicles, road load
results in realistic tests – e.g. using regular production vehicles - were on average 19%
higher than the results obtained in official tests. For more modern vehicles the average
difference was 37%, supporting other evidence that the manipulation of the road load part of
the test is increasing. These differences would result in around a 12% reduction in measured
fuel economy.
In the US, Hyundai-Kia were found to have not conducted the road load test fairly. Several
manufacturers in Europe have been successfully challenged over unfair advertisements
using official test results.
- In the laboratory
Results are also being polished up in laboratory tests by, for example, allowing the battery to
discharge during the test; minimizing the weight of the car; using special lubricants that are
not supplied with the production vehicle and testing in unrealistically hot temperatures. Once
the results have been compiled the current procedure also inexplicably allows the CO2
results declared by the manufacturer to be up to 4% below the measured results.
Independent laboratory tests, using the official drive cycle but with regular production
vehicles and without using all the loopholes in the rules, show on average 12% higher fuel
consumption and CO2 emissions than official figures reported by the carmaker. In total, the
independently executed tests lead to 19-28% (average 23%) higher CO2 emissions and fuel
consumption than the official figures reported by carmakers. About half of this is explained
by differences accruing from the road load testing, the other half comes from differences in
the laboratory testing. This is the same level as the average gap between official test figures
and real-world fuel consumption observed in Germany.
Mind the Gap! | Page 7
How much are falling official CO2 emissions the result of manipulating tests?
The extent to which manipulation of the tests has contributed to the improvement in official
CO2 figures has been estimated by consultants for the European Commission. They
conclude around 30% of the net CO2 emission reduction between 2002 and 2010 does not
result from technology deployment and that “utilisation of flexibilities may account for two fifths
to one half of the net CO2 emission reduction between 2002 and 2010.” From their
detailed findings, the causes of the current gap can be estimated to be:
• About 25% due to flexibilities in the laboratory test
• 25% – 35% due to flexibilities in the road load test
• 10-20% due to omissions from the test (like air conditioning systems)
• 10-20% due to the NEDC cycle being unrepresentative
• 10-20% from unknown causes."
http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/Real%20World%20Fuel%20Consumption%20v15_final.pdf (http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/Real%20World%20Fuel%20Consumption%20v15_final.pdf)
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Somehow I don't think Veedub have done any of us any favours with their actions-
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-28/polluted-paris-car-free-for-a-day/6808544 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-28/polluted-paris-car-free-for-a-day/6808544)
and that on top of previous rumblings from the usual suspects-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11280067/London-will-follow-Paris-and-ban-diesel-cars-campaigners-warn.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11280067/London-will-follow-Paris-and-ban-diesel-cars-campaigners-warn.html)
Yep Peak Diesel nails it pretty well but we petrol-heads won't be far behind I suspect.
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None of this hoo-haa with a TD42T.....
No offence but I bet current VW motors without pollution control running still produce less emissions on a percentage compared to the engine capacity of the good old 4.2 Nissan, just the Nissan can be fixed easier out in the bush
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And Audi too >:D
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/companies/volkswagen-scandal-more-than-2-million-audi-diesel-cars-worldwide-rigged-with-emissions-cheating-software/story-fni0d54v-1227547967650 (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/companies/volkswagen-scandal-more-than-2-million-audi-diesel-cars-worldwide-rigged-with-emissions-cheating-software/story-fni0d54v-1227547967650)
Meanwhile back at the ranch :angel:
http://chiptuning.com.au/chip-tuning-more-power/ (http://chiptuning.com.au/chip-tuning-more-power/)
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The plot thickens but tell us something we didn't already know numpties-
http://joannenova.com.au/2015/09/green-cars-cause-real-pollution-and-now-cheating-on-fuel-economy-too-half-the-co2-cuts-imaginary/#more-45249 (http://joannenova.com.au/2015/09/green-cars-cause-real-pollution-and-now-cheating-on-fuel-economy-too-half-the-co2-cuts-imaginary/#more-45249)
These whacko watermelons won't be happy til we're all on treadleys or walking.
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Ha ha, all the whackos who spout how we should be abandoning fuel and coal....
We CAN go around riding pushies, swim to Europe for a holiday, get off the grid and survive on solar panels and batteries........we CAN also drag the missus around by the hair and live in a cave and hunt for food, but it aint gonna work for billions of people anymore !!
Electric cars are just a fad, a stop gap measure until they come up with a viable solution to fuel as we know it.
Emissions.....they'll get better......when the companies decide they HAVE to , rather than now when they think it's better to cheat.
TV report said VW's mess could cost them 100 billion bucks....yep BILLION !!
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It didn't take long-
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a26891/the-end-of-diesel/?mag=roa&click=c1_article_news_yr_1 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a26891/the-end-of-diesel/?mag=roa&click=c1_article_news_yr_1)
Perhaps my topic heading was more prophetic than I ever imagined at the time? Still things could be a lot worse as a diesel owner now. You could be addicted to tobacco and be an ex James Hardie exec working in the Leigh Creek coal mine right now >:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Wx230gYJw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Wx230gYJw)
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Here's a very good summary of the tradeoffs involved with increasingly tougher emissions standards impacting diesels-
https://theconversation.com/australias-new-emissions-rules-will-put-yet-another-bump-in-the-road-for-diesels-49510
VWs dodgy activities have inevitably focussed the media gaze on the future efficacy of diesel cars for consumers more generally.
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Now they would do that now wouldn't they? ;D
http://www.caradvice.com.au/395921/german-authorities-extend-nox-investigation-to-brands-beyond-volkswagen-group/ (http://www.caradvice.com.au/395921/german-authorities-extend-nox-investigation-to-brands-beyond-volkswagen-group/)
Particularly if US carmakers not heavily invested in diesels clamour for the US EPA to fine VW the maxm $36k/car violation in order to get rid of a pesky competitor.
I have afeeling the Greenies in Gummint are about to live in interesting times like Central Banks with the finance sector and the GFC. There's safety for VW in numbers here folks ;)
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Someone at Mercedes said several years ago that they had reached all that they could and that the future was back in unleaded.
Nissan Y62 is starting to make clearer sense about dropping the diesel.
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Oh so you Green dudes want to test emissions under real world driving condition? Umm...errr..
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a26925/carmakers-want-easier-emissions-tests/ (http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a26925/carmakers-want-easier-emissions-tests/)
Perhaps the watermelons have a Final Solution in mind for all the nasty fossil fuel addicts-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/columnists/jamesmay/3267424/Honda-Cub-The-greatest-machine-ever.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/columnists/jamesmay/3267424/Honda-Cub-The-greatest-machine-ever.html)
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Apparently 'flow transformers' are all the go-
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/technology/volkswagen-scandal-how-they-are-fixing-the-diesel-engines/story-fnjwq0cw-1227623707227?sv=74c4aaa38f43001b99f5a00fdc0e4124 (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/technology/volkswagen-scandal-how-they-are-fixing-the-diesel-engines/story-fnjwq0cw-1227623707227?sv=74c4aaa38f43001b99f5a00fdc0e4124)
but not for you skips-
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/technology/vw-diesel-cheat-fix-revealed-for-australia-but-still-no-compensation-for-local-owners/story-fnjwq0cw-1227624292668?sv=6ef06e410d357b1aebb2438b37141c6c (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/technology/vw-diesel-cheat-fix-revealed-for-australia-but-still-no-compensation-for-local-owners/story-fnjwq0cw-1227624292668?sv=6ef06e410d357b1aebb2438b37141c6c)
That settles it then. You can't beat naturally aspirated petrol ;D
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/technology/someone-just-paid-158000-for-a-classic-vw-kombi-van-and-thats-not-even-the-highest-price/story-fnjwq0cw-1227626767386 (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/technology/someone-just-paid-158000-for-a-classic-vw-kombi-van-and-thats-not-even-the-highest-price/story-fnjwq0cw-1227626767386)
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We aint broken no steenking emissions laws in Oz so get over it-
http://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/dieselgate-volkswagen-insists-aussies-don%e2%80%99t-deserve-payouts/ar-BBs3tk1?ocid=spartandhp (http://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/dieselgate-volkswagen-insists-aussies-don%e2%80%99t-deserve-payouts/ar-BBs3tk1?ocid=spartandhp)
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It is a wonder that they VW has not been sued . They sold / advertised these vehicles as xyz rating with emissions and power output and they did not fit the said advertisement. In my way of thinking these vehicles are NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, and that is where I would be looking if I were to sue.
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Agree with that duggie. The cars were not delivered as advertised.
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Obtaining financial advantage by Deception, ie False or misleading advertising.
My thoughts.
They'll have some sort of disclaimer in their sales document to cover this.
Or at least they'll tell you they have. Whether you actually signed the document or not.
"You had the chance to review the sales contract, you didn't, well your the sucker then aren't you." Would be VW's position on this matter.
I can see a class action possibility here.
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No offence but I bet current VW motors without pollution control running still produce less emissions on a percentage compared to the engine capacity of the good old 4.2 Nissan, just the Nissan can be fixed easier out in the bush
[/quote
Black Smoke = Power You Can See :cup: :cheers:
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Agree with that duggie. The cars were not delivered as advertised.
Yeah they probably went better on less fuel which is why US and EU owners are getting theirs modified backwards plus compo now. Might be interesting to see if Oz owners turning them over in future start advertising them as 'has dodgy mod' to command a premium price.
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Is there anything we can do to help Mister Regulator :)
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/peugeot-and-citroen-declare-war-with-real-world-emissions-test-dieselgate-43409?utm_source=cg&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=theguide (http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/peugeot-and-citroen-declare-war-with-real-world-emissions-test-dieselgate-43409?utm_source=cg&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=theguide)
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This is only news as its a small private vehicle manufacturer rather than a heavy vehicle commercial manufacturer. Remember the furore of 1998 and 2010 when every heavy vehicle engine manufacturer in the US were prosecuted similar VW are now? No? Interesting....
http://jalopnik.com/how-the-epa-won-1-billion-from-diesel-cheaters-long-be-1732109485 (http://jalopnik.com/how-the-epa-won-1-billion-from-diesel-cheaters-long-be-1732109485)
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People who have Chipped & altered there diesels will have trouble in NSW, if they ever get around to checking emissions each year at rego renewal time.
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You get the feeling diesel's days are numbered for domestic use-
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/fiat-chrysler-group-30-litre-diesel-v6-slapped-with-epa-emissions-violation-50384 (http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/fiat-chrysler-group-30-litre-diesel-v6-slapped-with-epa-emissions-violation-50384)
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Oops! Might have been a wee bit hasty there-
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/2018-mazda-3-to-use-compression-ignition-for-30-per-cent-efficiency-boost-report-50373 (http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/2018-mazda-3-to-use-compression-ignition-for-30-per-cent-efficiency-boost-report-50373)
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Agree with that duggie. The cars were not delivered as advertised.
How many times have you watched an add for a car or whatever that involves " Hot Chicky Babes " They never tried to be anywhere near me ,,,,,,,, :'( But lm older now so l understand less about everything & l have :cheers:
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Is that why they now tag adds with something like "Model shown is not available in Australia.".
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Seems Mazda are still working hard on saving the piston engine from our omniscient overlords and their machinations-
http://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/research/mazda-skyactiv-x-review/ar-AArphzt (http://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/research/mazda-skyactiv-x-review/ar-AArphzt)
Zoom zoom :4x4: