Is canvas still the best?

[Alan Loy]

Canvas is a great time proven product but it is both heavy and expensive (for the good stuff).

Tents have gone to fly/inner setups for years and with all the "tropical roofs" around it seems that camper trailers are sort of following that route.  The south African Echo 5 has already gone that way with a vinyl roof http://www.echo4x4.com.au/echo5.php

So what do you think, should we be moving on to new designs and products. 

[Trex_s4m1]

I love the sleep you get from inside a canvas swag/camper trailer, and it doesn't flap as readily. Sure its heavy but doesnt tear at the slightest touch like vinyl tents. Also doesn't need to pack down to a bag like a tent.

[DannyG]

Canvas is a great time proven product but it is both heavy and expensive (for the good stuff).

Tents have gone to fly/inner setups for years and with all the "tropical roofs" around it seems that camper trailers are sort of following that route.  The south African Echo 5 has already gone that way with a vinyl roof http://www.echo4x4.com.au/echo5.php

So what do you think, should we be moving on to new designs and products. 

Often thought about this myself and I think we should and will eventually but I don't see any Aussie companies being the innovators in this instance. Most of our manufacturers are patriotic towards wax converters and dead  against imported products so to use another/better/lighter/stronger/more breathable/better water proof/easier to use material for camper trailers will have to wait until another country proves its the way to go

Just my thoughts of course, i could be very wrong and perhaps the heavy old canvas we have all used for years is the only way to go in Australian conditions?

[Azz]

I personally think 12oz canvas is a massive overkill.

The new fabrics for marine trimming, covers etc are excellent for a camper trailer. Light weight, super strong.

Most fabrics are around the same price per mtr. Its the labour content of a camper tent that is the most costly.

When I make the canvas part of my camper, it will be a light weight marine fabric.

Poly cotton canvas does breathe, but the amount it breathes is far less than 2 x people asleep. The key is to have windows & vents

I would prefer to use a 200 - 300 gsm fabric over a 400 - 500gsm canvas. On a traditional soft floor camper you will have over half again the amount of weight and the lighter fabrics pack away smaller.
The polyester / pvcs / acrylics are far less prone to mildew than poly cotton canvas and easier to clean.

[Matto]

It's a good question, and one I'd love to see someone local take the R&D lead on.

Years ago when we bought our canvas tent, friends of ours thought we were nuts. They do a lot of long-range hiking/bushwalking, and couldn't believe we'd buy a canvas tent. In their words - "why would you buy a tent from the 1960s, now?". Their feeling was that materials technology had moved on so much over the last 15 years, why wouldn't we take advantage of that? Our tent is heavy and packs up huge, their tent is super-lightweight and packs up tiny. Their stove collapses and everything packs away in itself. Their clothing is moisture-wicking and temp-controlling.

Hard-core hiking and mountain climbing is kind of like F1 for normal campers - obviously what they buy and use is on the cutting edge and expensive. But eventually things will filter down - look at ABS and traction control in cars, as well as carbon fibre being now widely available.

I love my canvas gear, and it's sturdy, strong and will last given the right care. Canvas can get mould and is highly flammable, and sharp rocks will still tear PVC bases though. I'd love to see someone experiment with some new materials, just to see how far the tech has come. It may not be approachable for "mere mortals" just yet, but it'd be fascinating to find out.

Cheers,
Matto

[Alan Loy]

My guess is that a lot of the "development" over the last 10 years has been in creature comfits eg electric systems, hot water, heaters and hybrid campertrailers. 

Australian manufacturers have promoted canvas as better than other fabrics to give them an edge over cheaper imported products.

I certainly don't want an inferior product but if new products are as useful and weigh less then why not?

[berlitza]

Vinyl roof would be a great idea, all the things you wouldn't have to be concerned with when using canvas, bird crap, leaks , short term mold etc etc

[edz]

Weight, mildew etc etc was the reasons I went with a heavy poly tarp material and light vinyl roof for my last camper trailer, All  still in very good condition nudging ten years on ..
 http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=21071.0

[alnjan]

I prefer canvas to the rest.  It is heavier and bulkier but it just lasts and is tougher and stronger. 

[Bunyip]

I prefer canvas as i find it better if sparks fly from the camp fire. Much less chance of getting a whole from my experience.

Not sure about the newer materials.

Bunyip

[Azz]

Consumers prefer the old fashioned poly cotton, 'cause its what I have always used'
The second statement is generally 'I want really heavy stuff'

I find after spending 15 minutes talking to a client and showing the advantages / disadvantages of the fabrics available today, most will go with the new school*

I have a Jayco Hawk in the yard at the moment that I have done a small repair on. The "canvas" on it is glorified seating vinyl. I was quite surprised.

The other benefit of PVC fabrics, is a repair is as simple as using super glue to stick a patch on. P/C canvas requires sewing, which puts more holes in your tent, thus giving somewhere else to leak.

We are building more and more boats covers that are glued together these days. Stronger than stitching and less chance of leaks through seams. We also used a lot of double sided tapes on light PVC's.

Over the last 25 years I have slowly seen the scaling down of P/C canvas and a huge growth in PVC and Synthetic fabrics. I would say in another 10 - 15 years, P/C canvas will be a thing of the past.


*Our main work is marine trimming

[Alan Loy]

Azz, could you give us some info, links etc on the "new" fabrics?  They sound good.

I love the idea of glueing them together, so much easier DYI.

[Trex_s4m1]

when you say gluing you mean actual glue not HF plastic welding? cool

[Azz]

Glueing is by no means easier than sewing, apart from the having to have an access industrial machine.

Basically any PVC fabric can be joined with "Super Glue"  Finding the right way of applying it so as not to make a big mess and one that is good quality and will last is the tricky bit.
I am using a Locktite product, but am looking into another brand.
Most people will learn to sew in a straight line before they have mastered glueing fabric with out a mess.

http://www.safetycomponents.com/WeatherMax/ is a polyester, so its strong as buggery and light weight, this needs to be sewn.

and these guys have amazing fabrics, some can be glued, others sewn. http://en.sergeferrari.com/yachting-3/covers-range-optimum-strength-for-weight/
The SK range is super strong, has a resistance to rubbing like nothing I have ever seen. It can be glued with a certain type of silicon, I am still in the middle of testing this
for the Australian distributor. Looks like it will work, but its messy as hell and takes a long time to go off.


Cheers

[Azz]

Most soft floor campers have PVC floors in them. When repairing, we use super glue to put a patch on either side.
Have not had any returns yet of a patch coming off.

Hot air welding is tricky and can distort the surrounding fabric while trying to get a good bond. Using different types of fabrics and sometimes even colours is almost impossible.

I don't have the need for a HF welder, they are a cool bit of kit, but limited in application to our area of work.

[Alan Loy]

Thanks for that Azz

I presume these products don't "breathe" is that correct?

[Alan Loy]

Love the idea of the 2 colour composites.  White on top when it's hot, turn it over and black on top when its cool.  It would only work for a fly or awning though.

[Azz]

Thanks for that Azz

I presume these products don't "breathe" is that correct?

Correct, we always inc ventilation. Whether that is in the cover or on the boat itself.
The two tone works brilliantly as you say.

[Marschy]

Hey Azz, Rather than loctite super glues, do a Google search for cynoacrylate or CA glue.

All super glues are cynoacrylate of varying quality. I used to get 100 gm bottles of it from hobby stores for about half the price of a 20 gm bottle of loctite super glue..
Good thing About the hobby store glue is 3 different viscosities, the thick stuff having gap filling qualities and much easier to apply

Cheers Marschy

[Azz]

Thats the one I am going to play with 

[Brumbypt]

4 years ago I went way out of my way to buy a new canvas tent, went to the 4wd show and they had crap there, luckily found one in a shop afterwards.

its still like brand new, cos only used it twice..  hahaha