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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: latestarter on May 17, 2017, 07:26:49 AM

Title: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: latestarter on May 17, 2017, 07:26:49 AM
I am getting an extra spare for my up coming trip, which will give me two new tyres.
I was going to put these on the front of the vehicle, and keep the current fronts for the spares. They are probably at 70%

Towing camper @ 1500kg and loaded vehicle.

Is this the right way to go ?
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Aaron Schubert on May 17, 2017, 07:43:19 AM
In general, yes. Your front brakes do much more braking than the rears. However, it's not going to be the end of the world, and you will probably be rotating them in 10k anyway.

Aaron
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: edz on May 17, 2017, 07:52:55 AM
As with any new tire, Also take it easy when braking and cornering especially in wet weather ,   for the first 100 k's or so to get the  rubber roughed up and remove the new tire oily slime .
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: latestarter on May 17, 2017, 08:09:59 AM
Thanks chaps.

Yeah will be rotating the wheels to try and in them down consistently .... Will probably see the faithfull old girl out
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Bird on May 17, 2017, 09:17:59 AM
I'd have thought the rear would do more work driving and all the weight on it would be better off..

but also depends how worn your other tyres are.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: scblack on May 17, 2017, 09:49:42 AM
I would always put the best tyres on front. Then your steering is working with best tread, particularly in wet conditions.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: AllanK on May 17, 2017, 10:47:34 AM
Did the same recently before going on a trip.

Two new ones on the front.
Old ones off the front onto the rear (assuming the are better then the current rear).
Old rears as the spares.

This should mean the tyres with the lesser tread/more wear are on as spares where they belong hoping not to have to use them until possibly the next rotation.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: HKB Electronics on May 17, 2017, 12:49:24 PM
I used to always put the news on the front as you assume they do most of the work, keep in
mind though that if you loose the back end the car will spin around.

Just now I have gone through the exercise of rotating the wheels the wheels on my prado, tyres
fitted where Coopers St Max, they have done around 30000Kms and half of this was on goat tracks,
gravel and sand.

On inspecting the tires, van (Vista XL) little damage tread probably down about 1/4, car fronts, little
damage again tread down about 1/4. Car rears, some chipping more wear and tear to tread blocks
tread depth down about a 1/4.

So in my particular case the rears are doing more work so I be more inclined to put the new on the rear and
the rears to the front to extend their life.


Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: paul.o on May 17, 2017, 12:52:31 PM
As above, new ones on the front. That's where your braking and steering happens when you do it in a hurry.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: NewieCamper on May 17, 2017, 12:54:40 PM
I say new on front. It's where the steering and most of the braking happens.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 17, 2017, 02:04:53 PM
Best foot forward.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: HKB Electronics on May 17, 2017, 02:58:21 PM
For curiosity I check a few tire company websites, the consensus is:

"Intuition suggests that since the front tires wore out first and because there is still about half of the tread remaining on the rear tires, the new tires should be installed on the front axle. This will provide more wet and wintry traction; and by the time the front tires have worn out for the second time, the rear tires will be worn out, too. However, in this case, intuition isn't right...and following it can be downright dangerous.

"When tires are replaced in pairs...the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front."
When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front. New tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads since deeper treaded tires are better at resisting hydroplaning."
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: edz on May 17, 2017, 03:45:16 PM
[quote
When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front. New tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads since deeper treaded tires are better at resisting hydroplaning."
[/quote]

This bit, I dont get the reasoning behind,, Sooo its OK to lose control of the Front end IE : steerage too aquaplaning and supposedly the back end wont step out and thats  um err  safer ... Mmm interesting ... No thanks
I'll stick to being able to steer and throttle  my way out of it,   if and when the back end decides to ever break loose .
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Merts on May 17, 2017, 03:50:08 PM
I'm a bit surprised that this is even an issue. I've always regularly rotated sets of tyres, and I replace them in sets (of 4 or 5 depending on the vehicle).
IMHO, if you're changing them two at a time, you are doing it wrong.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: MrCruza on May 17, 2017, 03:58:47 PM
Test also suggest it's easier to control a car with a front tyre blowout than a rear tyre blowout. Therefore the newies should be on the rear. Yeah I know, I didn't believe it either ..
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: kylarama on May 17, 2017, 07:06:21 PM


When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front. New tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads since deeper treaded tires are better at resisting hydroplaning."


This bit, I dont get the reasoning behind,, Sooo its OK to lose control of the Front end IE : steerage too aquaplaning and supposedly the back end wont step out and thats  um err  safer ... Mmm interesting ... No thanks
I'll stick to being able to steer and throttle  my way out of it,   if and when the back end decides to ever break loose .

If someone (not saying that you) has little faith in their worn, yet still roadworthy tyres, I'd be replacing the entire set.


Personally I've only ever replaced sets, never 2 only. Even if there is still a bit of usable tread left on an axle.



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Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: lincolnland on May 17, 2017, 07:47:21 PM
my 5 cents worth, and only passing on what i was trained in during the defensive driver courses ive done, trainers always advise new boots on the bum as past a certain angle (cant remember how many degrees) if the back steps out, theres no bringing it back. this was also taught in the heavy truck training. our work fleet of rangers and hiluxs regularly get only 2 tyres replaced at a time as the weight in the back wears the rears at about a 2:1 ratio. so i always insist on new tyres on the back both for better traction off road but also bc they wear quicker. just what works for me and my crews. cheers
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: HKB Electronics on May 17, 2017, 08:04:15 PM
It is about maintaining control of the car, if the back looses traction it will swing around and you end up spinning or facing the wrong way, try pulling on the hand brake and locking
the rear wheels the back will come around.

It is therefore good for the back to have good transaction to be able to maintain control, hence load proportioning valves, and ABS etc. In a braking situation
ABS should overcome the poorer rear traction if the fronts are better then the rears by preventing the rear wheels locking, in a hydroplaning situation though where your
simply driving down the road and the back starts hydroplaning and you hit the brakes you've got a serious problem.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: latestarter on May 17, 2017, 09:56:25 PM
Interesting how a thread can develop.
Firstly... (Merts) ...I'm not doing anything wrong... I rotate my wheels about every 10k and wear them down at a point where I change 4 corners at once. No ... I haven't rotated my spare but that was a conscience decision. I chuck the spare when it was past its used by.

The situation I'm in now is that I have two spares and in this situation I will rotate them and try and wear 6 tyres down at a consistent rate in order I get good value from my hard earned.

The reason my situation changed is that the vehicle has alloys as standard but a steel spare. I have chucked the steel rim spare and got two alloys for spares that makes a 6 wheel rotation a no brainer.

My only question really was whether to put the new tyres on the front or rear. They're on the front and I thank everyone for their input.

17 work days and we are off on our half lap......happy days 😀
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 17, 2017, 09:57:37 PM
It is about maintaining control of the car, if the back looses traction it will swing around and you end up spinning or facing the wrong way, try pulling on the hand brake and locking the rear wheels the back will come around.

It is therefore good for the back to have good transaction to be able to maintain control, hence load proportioning valves, and ABS etc. In a braking situation
ABS should overcome the poorer rear traction if the fronts are better then the rears by preventing the rear wheels locking, in a hydroplaning situation though where your
simply driving down the road and the back starts hydroplaning and you hit the brakes you've got a serious problem.
The back is usually hydroplaning long after the front, unless your travelling backwards.
The rear tyres move the vehicle along and carry some of the weight, it's the front that steers and does a majority of the braking in most vehicles.
In the front wheel drive vehicles, the rear wheels most work is carrying the weight of/in the vehicle.

In the past I had to enforce the reasoning of mixed tyre types on the same vehicle.
It was steel/rag radials in front and then you fitted biased ply tyres or cross plies on the back.
The understeer situation was way less desirable or controllable than oversteer, as explained to us at the time.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: HKB Electronics on May 17, 2017, 10:20:18 PM
I believe the tyre companies where referring to having worn tires on the rear when they indicated they could aquaplane before the front.

Anyway OPis happy with what he has done.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 18, 2017, 12:45:11 AM
No probs HKB.
Bald tyres on a wet day are good fun to watch/play with.
Just no good when unexpected things happen on a wet road in traffic.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: prodigyrf on May 18, 2017, 12:59:28 AM
Might have changed a bit with much better tubeless tyres than the good old days with tubes when you always put the new pair on the front to avoid blowouts and less chance of punctures. That's right, we didn't have power steering either so new tyres up front were the next best thing  ;D
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on May 18, 2017, 06:23:37 AM
Hi All, When I am broke I always put two new tires on the front of my 4wd and put the old front to the back, It stems back to the old days of no power steering in Landrovers and Toyota's, I have got a flat on both types of 4wds without power steering and gone bush both times lucky I was only going 35 miles an hour and it was flat open country and I could pull up. I have got flats on the back and nothing happened, So thats why I still put the new tires on the front when money is tight, Putting 4 new ones on the 80 series today, Craig
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: bully on May 18, 2017, 06:38:54 AM
Big call saying someone is doing something wrong. Everyone's situation and set up is different. A bit hard to coment on someone's situation if you don't know the whole story.
70% worn tyres and 2 new tyres will not make any difference in braking and handling where you put them.
Personally I would put them on the back as you are off on a bit trip and the only constant will be weight in the back of the vehicle. Braking and steering will be dramatically reduced due to long distance driving instead of stop start in town.
Have a great trip.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: NewieCamper on May 18, 2017, 09:36:51 AM

Personally I've only ever replaced sets, never 2 only. Even if there is still a bit of usable tread left on an axle.


Typically I would too, but the back tyres on our pathfinder wore out in no time due to poor alignment. No way I was wasting the front two, they still had about 80% remaining. (New ones went on the front)

yeah, I know should be rotating and wheel aligning more often!
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Merts on May 18, 2017, 10:25:04 AM
Firstly... (Merts) ...I'm not doing anything wrong... I rotate my wheels about every 10k and wear them down at a point where I change 4 corners at once. No ... I haven't rotated my spare but that was a conscience decision. I chuck the spare when it was past its used by.

The situation I'm in now is that I have two spares and in this situation I will rotate them and try and wear 6 tyres down at a consistent rate in order I get good value from my hard earned.

The reason my situation changed is that the vehicle has alloys as standard but a steel spare. I have chucked the steel rim spare and got two alloys for spares that makes a 6 wheel rotation a no brainer.

My only question really was whether to put the new tyres on the front or rear. They're on the front and I thank everyone for their input.😀

Apologies for the off the cuff remark about doing it wrong. Obviously situations can sometimes dictate that you need to replace less than the full set of tyres.
My comment was prompted because of the number of comments (and the tyre supplier advice) which seem to indicate that some people do this as a matter of course, rather than rotating a full set.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: Andy_Q on May 18, 2017, 04:40:02 PM
We all think we are Michael Schumacher.
I always used to put the best tyres on the front. This is what my old man would do. He did in fact rally.
Understeer is easier to control than oversteer. My wife drives the Pajero more than I do and although I believe that I could control a power slide I doubt her reflexes would be correct for oversteer.
If an accident does occur it is likely to be less sever if caused by understeer. Going straight into a tree is much less dangerous than going in sideways.
I now follow the tyre manufacturer advice. Best tyres on the rear.


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Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: lincolnland on May 18, 2017, 05:43:16 PM
i think im jan bunn. but only when the weather is on.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: lincolnland on May 18, 2017, 05:44:06 PM
im mean only watch the weather when janes buns are on. cheers. dont care what shui is doing!
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: latestarter on May 19, 2017, 05:35:06 PM
No issue Merts.
One thing is for sure, driving a 17 year old pathy towing 1.5T, speed's not going to be playing a role in any unfortunate situation  :cheers:
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: lloydus67 on May 19, 2017, 07:56:40 PM
Test also suggest it's easier to control a car with a front tyre blowout than a rear tyre blowout. Therefore the newies should be on the rear. Yeah I know, I didn't believe it either ..
I call bullShit
Having just recently had a drivers side front tyre blow out at 120klm/hour
A copper stt that was 90% tread left
I managed to hold onto it for a few seconds narrowly avoiding an oncoming car before being dragged across the other side of the road and onto the opposite grass bank
3 weeks later the rear  passenger side cooper stt blew out with about 30% tread left. While it was bumping and a little wobbly while I stopped at no time was control of the vehicle lost


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Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: prodigyrf on May 20, 2017, 12:36:58 AM
Yeah I'm with you lloyd having experienced both in the bad old days but I've never had a real blowout in a modern tubeless tyre. Slowdowns yes but not a catastrophic blowout but then I stick with OEM tyres or equivalents particularly with towing. Penny wise and pound foolish with the cheapys travelling to remote areas and I'm dubious about chunky off road tyres with long hauls although I reckon the Outback servos love them.
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: GeoffA on May 20, 2017, 06:04:49 AM
I call bullShit
Having just recently had a drivers side front tyre blow out at 120klm/hour
A copper stt that was 90% tread left
I managed to hold onto it for a few seconds narrowly avoiding an oncoming car before being dragged across the other side of the road and onto the opposite grass bank
3 weeks later the rear  passenger side cooper stt blew out with about 30% tread left. While it was bumping and a little wobbly while I stopped at no time was control of the vehicle lost

That's not a very good ad for Coopers lloyd...

Yeah I'm with you lloyd having experienced both in the bad old days but I've never had a real blowout in a modern tubeless tyre. Slowdowns yes but not a catastrophic blowout but then I stick with OEM tyres or equivalents particularly with towing. Penny wise and pound foolish with the cheapys travelling to remote areas and I'm dubious about chunky off road tyres with long hauls although I reckon the Outback servos love them.

That's interesting prodigy. The ONLY blowouts I've ever had were with 2 of the OEM tyres on the Patrol, within a couple of days of each other. Never had an issue with BFG's, on any terrain.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: 2 new tyres...put on the front or back ?
Post by: GeoffA on May 20, 2017, 06:06:52 AM
I'd have thought the rear would do more work driving and all the weight on it would be better off..

but also depends how worn your other tyres are.

Yep....