Post by: prodigyrf on July 25, 2017, 10:04:31 AM
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/simple-guide-to-roundabout-rules-51541 (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/simple-guide-to-roundabout-rules-51541)
I guess we'll have to tell the car where we're going each time we get in so it knows what it's doing ???
Post by: #jonesy on July 25, 2017, 11:25:26 AM
In reality some states must indicate when leaving Qld, WA and NT,
Others where practical, this isn't "driver's choice", but on the circumstances such as size and shape of roundabout how many lanes, roads etc.
Then they throw in the half way around for ACT to make it sound like something unique, which actually is how then national road rules were written.
NSW only has 1 sign. The yellow is only advisory, like most yellow/black ones and has no legal obligation.
They did however forget to mention you must give way to trams!
Post by: Pete79 on July 25, 2017, 12:01:15 PM
I saw it pop up on the TV while at QLD transport waiting room and realized that this had never been made clear to me before. But it does make sense.
I told a mate (who hates roundabouts) about it a few days later and he lost his mind.....
Apparently that semi trailer that entered the round about before him and is still making it's way around has to magically disappear once he gets there.
Actually I'm sure there are a few people that do know about that rule, they just think it says; "everyone must give way to ME when I'm on a roundabout, regardless of when I choose to enter it". ;D
Post by: BaseCamp on July 25, 2017, 12:40:49 PM
Effectively cutting me off via evoking the ## I'm (now) in the roundabout. ... give way to me ##..... rule...
Only works for them though; if the others downstream are aware that they now must give way. ..
BaseCamp
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 25, 2017, 01:09:57 PM
It does prove interesting however, when we go down to Brisbane.....
Post by: scblack on July 25, 2017, 01:17:12 PM
Yeah.... I see plenty of #@×% barreling into a roundabout entry (to the right of where I am seconds away from entering myself)...If they are in the roundabout before you, YOU must give way to them, that's the road rule. This is the rule mentioned in the post above yours.
Effectively cutting me off via evoking the ## I'm (now) in the roundabout. ... give way to me ##..... rule...
Only works for them though; if the others downstream are aware that they now must give way. ..
BaseCamp
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
Post by: Merts on July 25, 2017, 01:39:24 PM
NSW only has 1 sign. The yellow is only advisory, like most yellow/black ones and has no legal obligation.
I liked the "The second is the white upside-down triangle" comment. A triangle is just a 3 sided shape. There is no 'up side' so how can it be upside down?
Post by: Merts on July 25, 2017, 01:47:20 PM
Giving way to any vehicle that has already entered the roundabout, regardless of it's position, is one that I'm sure pretty much no-one knows about.
.....
I told a mate (who hates roundabouts) about it a few days later and he lost his mind.....
I've had similar conversations with a couple of people. I generally try to explain that roundabouts are actually designed with that rule in mind, and regardless of whether any individual driver thinks the rule makes sense or not (and it does), it is the law. We don't actually get to pick and choose which road rules we comply with, and which we ignore.
Post by: wilson79 on July 25, 2017, 01:57:09 PM
How the hell can I hold a stubby, light a smoke and text me mate that I'm on my way over, and indicate as well?
Post by: Beepa on July 25, 2017, 03:53:26 PM
Post by: Hairs on July 25, 2017, 03:58:42 PM
Giveway to any other vehicle already on the roundabout.
Why does the red car have to give way to the green car? When the green car is not using the outside lane?
This defeats whole purpose of a roundabout.
To keep traffic flowing.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on July 25, 2017, 04:04:28 PM
Rule,
Giveway to any other vehicle already on the roundabout.
Why does the red car have to give way to the green car? When the green car is not using the outside lane?
This defeats whole purpose of a roundabout.
To keep traffic flowing.
Umm cause according to the markings the red car can either go left or straight
Post by: Hairs on July 25, 2017, 04:06:42 PM
Edit,
In that video, the red car is turning left.
Post by: nab on July 25, 2017, 04:10:07 PM
Post by: Beepa on July 25, 2017, 04:22:51 PM
Post by: Hairs on July 25, 2017, 04:36:12 PM
Some say you must exit in the same lane as what you entered.
Others say that you can change lanes in a roundabout.
;D
Post by: MDS69 on July 25, 2017, 04:48:06 PM
Post by: Mace on July 25, 2017, 04:52:18 PM
I was reading a booklet on road rules (NSW) late last week and was shocked to learn you can change lanes in a roundabout as long as you indicate. Now I think that is a dumb rule.
The broken white line in the roundabout (above pic) would indicate that the line can be crossed. If a solid line, no.
I dont think its really smart to change lanes in a roundabout either. There is enough free for all on roundabouts down here as there is :)
Post by: GBC on July 25, 2017, 04:59:57 PM
Post by: Hairs on July 25, 2017, 05:32:48 PM
There is one at brisbane airport with a servo on it that requires a lane change depending on how you approach it, to get to the servo. Not fun with tourists and hire cars everywhere.Or there would be a shopping centre entry, Yep, town planners need to be shot for doing this. >:D
Post by: Nomad on July 25, 2017, 06:39:17 PM
Flame suit on ;D
Post by: Hairs on July 25, 2017, 06:50:48 PM
When used as they were intended to they are great.
It's the brain dead numpties that stuff it up.
All they are is a giant silent Copper :police:
Remember the steel yellow things in the middle of intersections before signs?
They were good at popping hub caps of rims if the driver missed the turn properly. :laugh:
Post by: Troopy_03 on July 25, 2017, 07:06:17 PM
Post by: Pete79 on July 25, 2017, 07:07:59 PM
But that big one they built at the old Brisbane airport intersection was an absolute disaster. The theory was a roundabout would allow 500 more cars per hour to pass through the intersection then the existing traffic lights would allow.
Only one problem, the reality was it let a whole s...tload of cars turn towards the city, but no one could enter to go to the airport.
The transport minister defended it like his career depended on it. Right up until the day he got stuck at said roundabout on the way to the airport and missed his flight.....
Soon after major works where approved and that whole mess of an intersection was bypassed (with another awesome piece of civil engineering that merges 6 lanes of traffic into 2 lanes in less then 1km, but that's a rant for another day).
Post by: gronk on July 25, 2017, 08:10:52 PM
the whole indicating to exit a roundabout even when going straight through is bloody stupid..
You don't have to ...in NSW anyway !!
Post by: Paddler Ed on July 25, 2017, 08:28:58 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg/800px-Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg)
They actually aren't too bad to use, as you can go both ways round the larger one.
Although in the UK, some of the roads have now got such a load on them they also run box junctions and traffic lights on them to improve the flow, especially where 2 major roads intersect at the same point.
Post by: MDS69 on July 25, 2017, 09:42:20 PM
You don't have to ...in NSW anyway !!
You do if it is practical to do so, so it so happens to never be practical for me.
Post by: Beepa on July 26, 2017, 05:20:18 AM
Post by: HEM19X on July 26, 2017, 09:49:59 AM
And the bloody idiots who turn right from the left hand lane of a roundabout...in 30 years of driving it's the only accident I've ever had....Grrrrr......Yes some roundabouts you can, but we put huge green signs before each entry showing what you can do, and 3 meter long white arrows on the road for those too dumb to read signs.....and the clowns still get it wrong.....
Back, way back, when the 1st round-about was introduced in Bathurst.. The RTA produced booklets that TOLD people that a right hand turn WAS TO BE MADE FROM THE LEFT LANE......... You can imagine the problems [and accidents] that arose from this almighty stuff up!!!
Post by: gronk on July 26, 2017, 06:29:04 PM
Back, way back, when the 1st round-about was introduced in Bathurst.. The RTA produced booklets that TOLD people that a right hand turn WAS TO BE MADE FROM THE LEFT LANE......... You can imagine the problems [and accidents] that arose from this almighty stuff up!!!
And, most roundabouts are different. You really have to look at the arrows on the road........some you can only turn left from the left lane, others you can also go straight ahead and others you can also turn right !!
Don't have an accident on one because unless you have a dashcam that shows who was at fault, you're in no mans land for insurance purposes.
Post by: #jonesy on July 27, 2017, 10:02:13 PM
Each state has put out a simple explanation of the road rules on their websites using slightly different terms. That's as far as the author went.
Reading each state's legislation on indicating when exiting it was exactly word for word (as per the Australian Road Rules)
Also they say you are required indicate if practicable. (Not practical) slightly different meanings.
Post by: Wazza999 on July 27, 2017, 10:29:42 PM
What I do hate is large roundabouts such as on the UK motorways and navigation systems where the instruction to 'take the third exit' may mean the fifth road as two were entries, all to be processed while doing 80 kph.
Post by: gronk on July 27, 2017, 10:32:01 PM
Also they say you are required indicate if practicable.
Ones idea about practicable might be different to anothers !!
Post by: Philbo on July 27, 2017, 11:01:54 PM
Think about the phrase "Give way to any traffic already in the roundabout."
If that were taken literally, traffic would bank up to choking point real quick. No one I have ever seen follows
that rule. On busy roundabouts traffic from just one direction can be endless in peak hours. Roundabouts would be
unusable. It seems like a CYA rule put in to protect the judiciary. You hit a car that was in the roundabout, you are
in the wrong, no matter how big the roundabout is or how many lanes? Ridiculous . . . but maybe necessary.
I can't think of a way around it. Excuse the pun >:D
Philbo
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on July 28, 2017, 12:54:07 AM
If two vehicles are in the roundabout, and opposite each other across the roundabout, why can't they both proceed with their travel?
It's the Give way rule all over again.
Post by: Spada on July 28, 2017, 06:40:36 AM
Post by: Rodt on July 28, 2017, 07:33:38 AM
My daughter who recently went through her 'L' licence process said the instructor said to her indicate as you exit the roundabout if safe to do so. Pretty close to a very simplified definition of 'practicable'
I think we sometimes overcomplicate these things and especially legislation when there is meant to be a degree of intent built into understanding
Post by: Ben.Archer on July 28, 2017, 07:56:11 AM
Stop your bleating.... try one of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Magic_roundabout):Thats the magic roundabout in Swindon. It looks strange but it works well as much of the traffic does not need to go all the way round and just hits one or two of them. I used to drive round it daily and local attitude to it is best summed up as "who dares wins".
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg/800px-Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg)
They actually aren't too bad to use, as you can go both ways round the larger one.
Although in the UK, some of the roads have now got such a load on them they also run box junctions and traffic lights on them to improve the flow, especially where 2 major roads intersect at the same point.
Post by: Troopy_03 on July 28, 2017, 08:35:22 AM
I always still apply the old "give way to the right' rule. If they are on my right on the roundabout I give way, if they are on my left on the roundabout no as they have no impact on me.
My daughter who recently went through her 'L' licence process said the instructor said to her indicate as you exit the roundabout if safe to do so. Pretty close to a very simplified definition of 'practicable'
I think we sometimes overcomplicate these things and especially legislation when there is meant to be a degree of intent built into understanding
I think you have pretty much nailed it. If the other vehicle/s on the roundabout will have no impact on you entering the roundabout, why would you need to "give way" to them. You only need to "give way" if you are trying to enter or cross over the same lane the other vehicle is in.
My pet hate, at a couple of local roundabouts on 'T' intersections, are cars in the left entry lane that just sit waiting for all traffic entering the roundabouts to clear before proceeding in the outside lane, when all traffic entering from the right can only turn right and are on the inside lane. They just don't get that there are two lanes...
Post by: gronk on July 28, 2017, 02:49:54 PM
I think you have pretty much nailed it. If the other vehicle/s on the roundabout will have no impact on you entering the roundabout, why would you need to "give way" to them. You only need to "give way" if you are trying to enter or cross over the same lane the other vehicle is in.
My pet hate, at a couple of local roundabouts on 'T' intersections, are cars in the left entry lane that just sit waiting for all traffic entering the roundabouts to clear before proceeding in the outside lane, when all traffic entering from the right can only turn right and are on the inside lane. They just don't get that there are two lanes...
Yep, and even though they say you give way to anyone on the roundabout, that doesn't mean someone not in your lane.
You can change lanes in a roundabout, but must signal, and only if SAFE to do so ( like any other road lane ), so jumping onto a empty lane on a roundabout is the same as any other road scenario.
Post by: Bird on July 28, 2017, 03:02:17 PM
People are only taught to pass a test these days - not taught to drive.
Post by: gronk on July 28, 2017, 04:49:44 PM
People are only taught to pass a test these days - not taught to drive.
Some of the worst are women drivers. Some are just too timid. Fine line between being timid and aggressive, but a timid driver will get nowhere.
Trouble is....you're on the horn and they don't have a clue why your on it ??
Same as the ones who do 70K's on the freeway onramp and then even stop, waiting for a gap. They don't realise that if you get up to 110, you just slip in with no worries !!
Post by: Bird on July 28, 2017, 09:08:27 PM
Some of the worst are women drivers.come for a drive to Box Hill... millions of a combination of these dudes, but only 1 with a legitimate license.
(http://s1.r29static.com//bin/entry/7dd/x,80/1129017/image.jpg)
Post by: nab on July 28, 2017, 10:08:08 PM
Yep, and even though they say you give way to anyone on the roundabout, that doesn't mean someone not in your lane.
You can change lanes in a roundabout, but must signal, and only if SAFE to do so ( like any other road lane ), so jumping onto a empty lane on a roundabout is the same as any other road scenario.
I always give way if they are near me and on the inside lane, regardless of which lane they are in. A few times I went to use the outside lane while a car was in the inside lane and they have drifted into the outside lane when they are exiting. I'm not too fussed on who is right or wrong, it's too late when the car is dented. Waiting a few extra seconds won't hurt.
Also, if you change lanes when on a roundabout (from inside to outside) and collide with someone entering the outside lane of a roundabout I think you will find the person entering is at fault - they didn't give way to the car already on the roundabout. Not the best idea changing lanes in a roundabout though...
Nothing worse than when people give way when another car is on the otherside of the roundabout!!!!
Post by: gronk on July 29, 2017, 07:38:38 AM
Post by: Troopy_03 on July 29, 2017, 04:54:20 PM
Post by: gronk on July 29, 2017, 09:37:23 PM
A few years back, the son-in-law T boned a small sedan that pulled out in front of him, when he was going around a roundabout. The bull bar impression in the side of her vehicle made it pretty easy for him to prove who was in the wrong, without a dash cam.
Ha, I have driven onto a roundabout many times when I was the 1st to get on it, only to have a driver on the right come onto it at speed and nearly hit me.
If they had hit me, it would look like I hadn't give way, BUT, I was 1st onto the roundabout.....so it's not always as it seems.
Post by: Troopy_03 on July 30, 2017, 10:55:48 AM
Ha, I have driven onto a roundabout many times when I was the 1st to get on it, only to have a driver on the right come onto it at speed and nearly hit me.But then you'd have the bullbar up ya bum, hers being right in the drivers door showed that she was just entering the roundabout and heading for the inside lane, while he was meters from her in the outside lane. Said he thought he'd killed her at first, when he saw her head flop out of the drivers window, but luckily she was unhurt. Her car didn't fare so well though, and the son-in-law got a new bullbar out of it.
If they had hit me, it would look like I hadn't give way, BUT, I was 1st onto the roundabout.....so it's not always as it seems.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on July 30, 2017, 04:14:41 PM
They are trying to enforce their view of the give way to the right part of it.
Because they believe, that from outside the roundabout, they can enter with impunity.
Even if there is someone there already.
They reckon the small part about "or approaching the roundabout from another vehicles right", is their 'get out of gaol free'.
Post by: Bird on July 30, 2017, 04:47:45 PM
Ha, I have driven onto a roundabout many times when I was the 1st to get on it, only to have a driver on the right come onto it at speed and nearly hit me.I don't know a person who hasn't had this situation..
If they had hit me, it would look like I hadn't give way, BUT, I was 1st onto the roundabout.....so it's not always as it seems.
Post by: monbeg on July 30, 2017, 05:46:17 PM
Some of the antics you see here on basic two lane roundabouts (especially in SA) are amazing.
This one is between Dublin airport and the city in Ireland, would love to see some of of the people that "negotiate" my local roundabout having a go :D
Post by: gronk on July 30, 2017, 07:01:04 PM
Post by: monbeg on July 30, 2017, 09:31:13 PM
I reckon our small roundabouts are harder than that one shown. The only roundabout part of it is in the centre, and it's way bigger than our little piddly ones.
True. The point I was making though was that you have to read the signs and plan ahead.
The latest Ozzie concept of "I want to be in that lane" at the last minute and by just putting my indicator on everyone will let me in won't work on there.
Post by: Bird on July 31, 2017, 11:12:58 AM
you have to not only know the rules in your own state, but once you cross a border or 4 on holidays you need to know the interpretation of every single states rules on each and every subject.
Good luck with that.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 31, 2017, 12:41:28 PM
Until there are national rules, we are all ****ed
you have to not only know the rules in your own state, but once you cross a border or 4 on holidays you need to know the interpretation of every single states rules on each and every subject.
Good luck with that.
I remember back in about 2000 or so. We'd flown in for the Calder Nationals and got a hire car.
Sitting in the middle of the road, waiting to do a right hand turn in Melbourne....friggin horns blaring... comments about whether my parent were married when I was born...... being told to do something that no human body could do....
Who the hell, made up the rule you pull over to the left to make a right hand turn.
Friggin spastic rule that one.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on July 31, 2017, 12:59:33 PM
Trams in the centre of the road continued the use of this method of turning in the centre of the Melb. CBD.
They were Cable Trams, before they were Electric driven. Sydney had Trams too, not sure if they had any similar movement/turning rules.
Bird may be able to help with info..
Not sure if he'd want to or if he's still rolling on the floor laughing.
Post by: deepop on July 31, 2017, 01:10:01 PM
Ha, I have driven onto a roundabout many times when I was the 1st to get on it, only to have a driver on the right come onto it at speed and nearly hit me.Yeah, agreed Gronk, that's the biggest problem. It they left it as it was you always had to give way to the right - less problems.
If they had hit me, it would look like I hadn't give way, BUT, I was 1st onto the roundabout.....so it's not always as it seems.
Post by: gronk on July 31, 2017, 06:11:52 PM
Yeah, agreed Gronk, that's the biggest problem. It they left it as it was you always had to give way to the right - less problems.
On a roundabout, you still do , as "usually" that's the side you need to give way...if they are on before you ! Or if they are coming with such speed, it's wise to give way as well.
Generally, I don't follow any rules on a roundabout.......jump on and off and avoid getting too near anyone else !!
Post by: monbeg on July 31, 2017, 11:02:14 PM
I remember back in about 2000 or so. We'd flown in for the Calder Nationals and got a hire car.
Sitting in the middle of the road, waiting to do a right hand turn in Melbourne....friggin horns blaring... comments about whether my parent were married when I was born...... being told to do something that no human body could do....
Who the hell, made up the rule you pull over to the left to make a right hand turn.
Friggin spastic rule that one.
Ha ha, yes that's always good for a giggle in Melbourne especially when you are using a gps for guidance and it thinks you have made a mistake and have turned the wrong way >:(
If anyone ever has a spare half hour in Adelaide then go to the Britannia Hotel, grab a Coopers and watch some of the antics at this pair of roundabouts when it gets busy, especially when you get a few cyclists in the mix :laugh:
Post by: GUEY on August 02, 2017, 09:49:05 AM
For a three point round about.
For those in the know, or think they are in the know, can someone clarify whether both car A and B need to give way to car C.
Assuming car C has entered the roundabout first 😉
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170801/fc475ab3eb34d0d3f297baf99af004be.jpg)
Post by: GUEY on August 02, 2017, 10:00:32 AM
Post by: GUEY on August 02, 2017, 10:10:36 AM
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 02, 2017, 10:37:31 AM
Please excuse my very quick, and very rough sketch
For a three point round about.
For those in the know, or think they are in the know, can someone clarify whether both car A and B need to give way to car C.
Assuming car C has entered the roundabout first 😉
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170801/fc475ab3eb34d0d3f297baf99af004be.jpg)
Car A doesn't need to, if he is proceeding straight ahead (which he must do from that lane), because car C will be proceeding on the inside lane to turn right, or merely turn left before reaching car A or B. And that was a previous point I was making about how bloody annoying it is when car A sits there giving way to all and sundry, when he is going straight ahead. Of course all of that goes out the window when people don't use their indicators to signal their intentions.
Post by: GBC on August 02, 2017, 10:53:27 AM
A and B both give way.
C can enter on the right and exit on the left if he wants - you can change lanes on a roundabout.
Pretty simple - give way to all traffic on a roundabout, and do not overtake on a roundabout.
Same as turning left on a roundabout or merging onto a multi lane highway - give way to ALL lanes.
I don't love the rule either, but opinions on rules are what cause crashes.
Post by: GUEY on August 02, 2017, 11:02:56 AM
I disagree.
A and B both give way.
C can enter on the right and exit on the left if he wants - you can change lanes on a roundabout.
Pretty simple - give way to all traffic on a roundabout, and do not overtake on a roundabout.
Same as turning left on a roundabout or merging onto a multi lane highway - give way to ALL lanes.
I don't love the rule either, but opinions on rules are what cause crashes.
This was my understanding also, as there is a dotted line in front of both A and B, and also a give way sign on both A and B sides of the road. From a insurance/law perspective it would be interesting if you hadn't given way.
It is no wonder there are so many accidents.
I should also note that on the roundabout in post #60, there is a driveway just out of shot. Would make it interesting trying to get to that if you can't exit to the left.
Post by: GBC on August 02, 2017, 11:15:32 AM
https://youtu.be/Q_K-Hnz4Cl4
"When approaching a roundabout you must give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout.
In some cases on a multi-lane roundabout, it may be necessary to change lanes before exiting. If you are changing lanes you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to." From transport QLD website
Post by: Merts on August 02, 2017, 11:25:40 AM
I disagree.
A and B both give way.
C can enter on the right and exit on the left if he wants - you can change lanes on a roundabout.
Pretty simple - give way to all traffic on a roundabout, and do not overtake on a roundabout.
Same as turning left on a roundabout or merging onto a multi lane highway - give way to ALL lanes.
I don't love the rule either, but opinions on rules are what cause crashes.
Whilst you can change lanes in a roundabout, the same rules apply as do for changing lanes elsewhere. You have to give way to anyone who is in the lane you want to merge into. I'm not convinced it's as cut and dried as you are suggesting.
Post by: GBC on August 02, 2017, 11:30:41 AM
Whilst you can change lanes in a roundabout, the same rules apply as do for changing lanes elsewhere. You have to give way to anyone who is in the lane you want to merge into. I'm not convinced it's as cut and dried as you are suggesting.
It is easy. Give way to people already on before you, cut off clowns who don't give way to you. After 14 years at the airport you get pretty good at it. It gets interesting when a French tourist drives straight at you on the wrong side of the road though...yes, true story.
Post by: Merts on August 02, 2017, 11:33:40 AM
In some cases on a multi-lane roundabout, it may be necessary to change lanes before exiting. If you are changing lanes you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to." From transport QLD website
???
Post by: Chappie on August 02, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
It does seems a little ridiculous to give way to a car travelling in a different lane?
Quote"If you are changing lanes you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to"
So I am allowed to enter the roundabout as there are no cars in my lane to give way to, and then they have to give way if they want to change into my lane?
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 02, 2017, 12:02:05 PM
I go through that roundabout or one very similar and a lot of the cars entering the roundabout in car c position end up changing lane as they go past cars a and b as they are going too fast.
It does seems a little ridiculous to give way to a car travelling in a different lane?
Quote"If you are changing lanes you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to"
So I am allowed to enter the roundabout as there are no cars in my lane to give way to, and then they have to give way if they want to change into my lane?
Correct
Correct
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 02, 2017, 12:08:05 PM
Same setup as the one at the airport, Right lane in, left lane out and up the driveway. Perfectly legal and anyone thinks they can sneak through on the left lane will cop a bullbar.
https://youtu.be/Q_K-Hnz4Cl4
"When approaching a roundabout you must give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout.
In some cases on a multi-lane roundabout, it may be necessary to change lanes before exiting. If you are changing lanes you must give way to vehicles in the lane you are moving to." From transport QLD website
That video is for single lane roundabouts. If you happen to use your traffic position adjustment device (bull bar) on a vehicle as you are changing into the left lane, you will cop a hefty fine, for not giving way... ;)
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 02, 2017, 12:09:40 PM
Post by: GBC on August 02, 2017, 12:39:59 PM
Correct
Correct
Wrong all day long.
"A vehicle approaching a roundabout must give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout"
There is no, and never has been 'my lane' in any roundabout. The fact that you were confused by a simple video shows you should not be dispensing advice about this.
Post by: GBC on August 02, 2017, 12:41:18 PM
That video is for single lane roundabouts. If you happen to use your traffic position adjustment device (bull bar) on a vehicle as you are changing into the left lane, you will cop a hefty fine, for not giving way... ;)
Not if they have failed to give way to ALL traffic all ready on the roundabout. That is the simple part that you cannot grasp. I certainly do not advocate using a bull bar in real life, but the fact we are having this conversation highlights a massive shortcoming in people's ability to understand simple road rules. People ducking into a lane do not suddenly get an immunity idol after they have failed to give way.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 02, 2017, 02:32:18 PM
I actually have nudged a vehicle with my bull bar on a roundabout, when he cut across from the right lane, to the left on a two lane exit of a roundabout, without even looking let alone indicating. He was pretty keen to pursue the matter, till i pointed out the dash cam. And I wasn't worried about a bit of his paint on my bull bar.
Post by: GBC on August 02, 2017, 03:48:13 PM
Post by: alnjan on August 02, 2017, 05:14:22 PM
Post by: Bird on August 02, 2017, 05:37:27 PM
They gave up and made it all traffic lights.
Post by: nab on August 02, 2017, 10:02:37 PM
And you do not seem to grasp, that if he is in the inside lane, and you are entering the outside lane, you are not failing to give way (unless he is using his blinker to signal he is changing lanes into the outside lane or exiting). If you intend to cross into the inside lane, thereby impeding his safe travel, then of course you have to give way. If you are in the inside lane, and fail to give way to someone in the outside lane, when you cross into it, you are in the wrong.
I actually have nudged a vehicle with my bull bar on a roundabout, when he cut across from the right lane, to the left on a two lane exit of a roundabout, without even looking let alone indicating. He was pretty keen to pursue the matter, till i pointed out the dash cam. And I wasn't worried about a bit of his paint on my bull bar.
Why is there a dotted "give way" line in front of car A then? If car C is already on the roundabout and changes lanes and car A that has just entered the roundabout hits it, it is blatantly obvious that car A did not give way to all traffic already on the roundabout and therefore at fault.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on August 02, 2017, 10:31:18 PM
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 09:20:10 AM
If it's still murky, stay in small towns where it's much safer for you to drive. >:D
And for really weird rules on giving way, VIC used to have a beauty, which they discontinued back around 89 or 90. Two cars approaching each other at a T junction. Car A wanted to turn right into the side road, and car B wanted to turn left into the same road. Car B had to give way to car A. That was just plain stupid, and caused a few prangs with interstate drivers. Luckily, as I say, they scrapped it just before we moved down there for a while.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 09:33:23 AM
Why is there a dotted "give way" line in front of car A then? If car C is already on the roundabout and changes lanes and car A that has just entered the roundabout hits it, it is blatantly obvious that car A did not give way to all traffic already on the roundabout and therefore at fault.
The dotted line is for car is to indicate that car A has to give way to any vehicle already on the roundabout using that outside lane. If car C is already on the roundabout, and changes or is in the process of changing lanes, he will have his left blinker on, and car A will be aware of what he is doing, and give way to him.
Of course, in the sketch, car C will proceed to the inside lane to turn right anyway, then indicate to exit the roundabout. There is no need for him to enter the left lane unless he decides he needs to go back to the road he came in on (chuckin a U'y). Then he would remain on the inside lane till he is past the RH exit, indicate with his left blinker and exit the roundabout, into the road he came in on.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 09:37:17 AM
You need to talk to a traffic copper about this. You are having an each way bet.
Nope, no eachway bet. It's standard lane changing procedure. If you want to change into another lane, you need to indicate, and give way to traffic in that lane.
Post by: Bird on August 03, 2017, 09:52:15 AM
- and as we all know, the larger variety work so well
(https://hsto.org/getpro/habr/post_images/fdc/f57/43a/fdcf5743a889950c49194daf804cd394.jpg)
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 10:05:29 AM
Do you remember the weird traffic rule that I mentioned above Bird? where you had to give way to traffic crossing in front of you. I don't remember what happened if you were going straight, and he wanted to cross in front to turn right though. I think he had to stop and give way, but don't really remember. I just remember nearly getting cleaned up a couple of times, when I didn't give way to the car crossing in front of me, the first time I drove down there.
Post by: GBC on August 03, 2017, 11:42:25 AM
I think people need to look up how to use traffic lanes on a road. It may be a bit more obvious then. If you change lanes, you need to indicate, if you don't enter the other persons lane lane, then there is no need to give way, as you are not impeding their way. Have a look at basic T junctions on a multi lane road, when you are turning left, and a car approaching from the right, in the other lane, do you still need to give way?
If it's still murky, stay in small towns where it's much safer for you to drive. >:D
And for really weird rules on giving way, VIC used to have a beauty, which they discontinued back around 89 or 90. Two cars approaching each other at a T junction. Car A wanted to turn right into the side road, and car B wanted to turn left into the same road. Car B had to give way to car A. That was just plain stupid, and caused a few prangs with interstate drivers. Luckily, as I say, they scrapped it just before we moved down there for a while.
This is getting boring. Yes, you give way to ALL lanes. Most don't do it, I agree that it doesn't work in busy cities, but nevertheless it is the law, and one which you have proven without a shadow of a doubt that you are completely ignorant of.
"At T intersections the vehicle travelling on the road that ends must give way to
any pedestrians crossing or vehicles travelling on the road that continues unless
otherwise signposted."
Post by: macca on August 03, 2017, 12:46:37 PM
On the roundabout, coming off the freeway (heading North) at Laverton Nth, have seen someone coming around the roundabout in the wrong direction a couple of times too. But I think they work well in most situations. The tiny little ones in suburban streets only serve to slow traffic down a bit though, which is probably a good thing anyway.I remember it troopy but it wasnt just T intersections, turning right had right of way over turning left when approaching on the same carrige way
Do you remember the weird traffic rule that I mentioned above Bird? where you had to give way to traffic crossing in front of you. I don't remember what happened if you were going straight, and he wanted to cross in front to turn right though. I think he had to stop and give way, but don't really remember. I just remember nearly getting cleaned up a couple of times, when I didn't give way to the car crossing in front of me, the first time I drove down there.
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Post by: Merts on August 03, 2017, 02:20:09 PM
This is getting boring. Yes, you give way to ALL lanes. Most don't do it, I agree that it doesn't work in busy cities, but nevertheless it is the law, and one which you have proven without a shadow of a doubt that you are completely ignorant of.
I reckon you are missing something fundamental here, and that is what 'give way' actually means.
"slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision."
The rule that you have to give way to any vehicle already in the roundabout means that you slow down and stop if necessary to avoid a collision with any vehicle already in the roundabout. It most definitely does not mean you can't enter the roundabout just because there are other vehicles in it, in lanes and/or positions that don't present a chance of a collision.
When a vehicle is turning right in the middle lane, and you are turning left or going straight through in the outer lane, you can enter the roundabout if it's clear doing so isn't going to cause a collision. Once you've safely entered the roundabout, the other driver has to comply with the requirement to give way to any vehicle in the lane he's attempting to change into.
Where it becomes tricky is when the right turning driver starts changing lanes at the same time the other driver is entering the roundabout, although that right turning driver should be indicating left prior to changing lanes, which would alert the other driver to the fact than entering the roundabout could cause a collision.
As I said yesterday, I'm not convinced this is as clear cut as you keep suggesting, but I'm happy for you to correct me if you can point out an error in my logic.
Post by: Pete79 on August 03, 2017, 02:29:59 PM
He is discussing driving in QLD, the rule is;
"Keep right at all times no matter what. When your exit approaches, move from the far right lane to the far left lane as fast as possible and if anyone doesn't get out of your way immediately you must drive as close as possible to them and threaten them with your bullbar if you have one."
Well at least that's what my observations have told me must be the rules..... ;D
Post by: Bird on August 03, 2017, 02:46:50 PM
Post by: Hairs on August 03, 2017, 04:26:43 PM
(https://hsto.org/getpro/habr/post_images/fdc/f57/43a/fdcf5743a889950c49194daf804cd394.jpg)You've done well to get an aerial shot of how Grafton motorist deal with roundabouts at either side of the Grafton Bridge. :angel:
I've seen coppers caught in the mess and yet nobody gets book.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 04:32:58 PM
I reckon you are missing something fundamental here, and that is what 'give way' actually means.
"slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision."
The rule that you have to give way to any vehicle already in the roundabout means that you slow down and stop if necessary to avoid a collision with any vehicle already in the roundabout. It most definitely does not mean you can't enter the roundabout just because there are other vehicles in it, in lanes and/or positions that don't present a chance of a collision.
When a vehicle is turning right in the middle lane, and you are turning left or going straight through in the outer lane, you can enter the roundabout if it's clear doing so isn't going to cause a collision. Once you've safely entered the roundabout, the other driver has to comply with the requirement to give way to any vehicle in the lane he's attempting to change into.
Where it becomes tricky is when the right turning driver starts changing lanes at the same time the other driver is entering the roundabout, although that right turning driver should be indicating left prior to changing lanes, which would alert the other driver to the fact than entering the roundabout could cause a collision.
As I said yesterday, I'm not convinced this is as clear cut as you keep suggesting, but I'm happy for you to correct me if you can point out an error in my logic.
Good to see some sanity on the post ;-)
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 04:38:53 PM
Settle down, I'm just kidding.... heck I even used to be a QLD driver myself once...
soon learnt to be very mindful of giving way and using indicators when I ventured south though... ;D
Post by: Pete79 on August 03, 2017, 04:59:33 PM
Now all we need is to get a ruling where it is compulsory for QLD drivers to undergo a test and have their licenses endorsed....
Slightly off topic, but I actually agree with that.
I've been saying for a long time that all drivers (in all states) should have to do a really quick lap with a transport officer when you pay your 5 year license fees.
Just need a quick drive to get everyone up to speed with the latest (and correct) road rules, as well as filter out those that perhaps shouldn't be on the road or maybe need a couple of lessons before they are deemed safe to use a motor vehicle again.
It would be simple;
1) Are you less then 150 years old, can you physically get into a vehicle and see over the dash board? Yes, go to step 2.
2) can you negotiate an intersection or roundabout, do you know how to use your indicators and how to give way? Yes, go to step 3.
3) drive to the nearest motorway or major highway, can you merge into flowing traffic, maintain the signed speed (or as close as safely possible) and do you keep left unless over taking? Yes, you can have a license for another 5 years.
My guess is half of QLD drivers wouldn't make it passed step 2.... ;D
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Slightly off topic, but I actually agree with that.
I've been saying for a long time that all drivers (in all states) should have to do a really quick lap with a transport officer when you pay your 5 year license fees.
Just need a quick drive to get everyone up to speed with the latest (and correct) road rules, as well as filter out those that perhaps shouldn't be in the road or need a couple of lessons before they are deemed safe to use a motor vehicle again.
It would be simple;
1) Are you less then 150 years old, can you physically get into a vehicle and see over the dash board? Yes, go to step 2.
2) can you negotiate an intersection or roundabout, do you know how to use your indicators and how to give way? Yes, go to step 3.
3) drive to the nearest motorway or major highway, can you merge into flowing traffic, maintain the signed speed (or as close as safely possible) and do you keep left unless over taking? Yes, you can have a license for another 5 years.
My guess is half of QLD drivers wouldn't make it passed step 2.... ;D
Hahaha....
Hmm I just make step one, by a couple of years and a couple of centimeters.. ;D
Post by: gronk on August 03, 2017, 05:35:49 PM
Please excuse my very quick, and very rough sketch
For a three point round about.
For those in the know, or think they are in the know, can someone clarify whether both car A and B need to give way to car C.
Assuming car C has entered the roundabout first 😉
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170801/fc475ab3eb34d0d3f297baf99af004be.jpg)
That roundabout probably wouldn't happen in real life. If it's a 2 lane roundabout it would be marked with dotted lines all the way round. If it was a single lane roundabout, most likely the left hand lane , car C, would have a left only turn arrow on the road. Single lane roundabouts are just that, so no 2 lanes of traffic allowed.
Post by: GeoffA on August 03, 2017, 05:47:57 PM
I remember it troopy but it wasnt just T intersections, turning right had right of way over turning left when approaching on the same carriage way
Yes macca. I think it was probably like that to get right turning traffic off the tram lines ASAP....much like the hook turns in the CBD.
Guessing they made it a blanket rule to save confusion, but visitors struggled with it....
:cheers:
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 05:49:10 PM
That roundabout probably wouldn't happen in real life. If it's a 2 lane roundabout it would be marked with dotted lines all the way round. If it was a single lane roundabout, most likely the left hand lane , car C, would have a left only turn arrow on the road. Single lane roundabouts are just that, so no 2 lanes of traffic allowed.
The two lanes on the Main Rd, would indicate it's a two lane roundabout, and if not, it would be a bl@@dy s#1t fight for cars going from two lanes into a single lane roundabout. But he did say it was a rough sketch....
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 03, 2017, 05:51:01 PM
Yes Jim. I think it was probably like that to get right turning traffic off the tram lines ASAP....much like the hook turns in the CBD.
Guessing they made it a blanket rule to save confusion, but visitors struggled with it....
:cheers:
No idea what their thinking was, but it was all over, not just in Melbourne. I think I did hear that it was to clear traffic on the main road quicker, but that didn't make sense either.
Post by: GeoffA on August 03, 2017, 05:52:15 PM
No idea what their thinking was, but it was all over, not just in Melbourne. I think I did hear that it was to clear traffic on the main road quicker, but that didn't make sense either.
Yep. Like I said, blanket rule....but it did help clear traffic from the centre of the road.....just not sure is warranted the confusion for visitors.
Post by: macca on August 03, 2017, 06:33:11 PM
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Post by: GeoffA on August 03, 2017, 06:38:56 PM
....I still get a kick out of hanging a youi at the traffic lights when i am driving work college's from NSW around Melbourne, they squeal like little girls
Onya macca... :cup: :cup:
Post by: macca on August 03, 2017, 06:56:12 PM
Onya macca... :cup: :cup:Its OK, their always much more at ease when I reassure them its their door that gets hit if I misjudge the distance of the approaching traffic
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Post by: nab on August 03, 2017, 07:28:57 PM
Have a look at basic T junctions on a multi lane road, when you are turning left, and a car approaching from the right, in the other lane, do you still need to give way?
The law states that you need to give way to traffic on the continuing road. I can't find anywhere where it says give way only to traffic that is in the lane you want to turn into. In reality, your way is how 90% of drivers do it and traffic generally flows better if you do, doesn't mean it's correct.
:cheers:
Post by: Bad Scott on August 04, 2017, 04:35:34 AM
Dont worry it was just as confusing for us when we went interstate, glad its all the same now. I still get a kick out of hanging a youi at the traffic lights when i am driving work college's from NSW around Melbourne, they squeal like little girlsPMSL :cup: :cup: :cup:
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Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 04, 2017, 05:19:14 AM
Do you what for them even though they are slow and just go and take a shot.
Post by: Beepa on August 04, 2017, 06:04:26 AM
What about push bike riders in all of this.
Do you what for them even though they are slow and just go and take a shot.
And look at all the expensive infrastructure that is built for push bike riders, dedicated cycle paths with bridges (some of them quite large), lane extensions on roads, extra push buttons and lanterns at traffic signals (which includes extra wiring and upgraded program for controller) etc. etc. Yet not a cent paid for bike rego, no wonder the roads are in such a poor condition when our car rego gets spent on bikes.
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 04, 2017, 08:04:05 AM
The law states that you need to give way to traffic on the continuing road. I can't find anywhere where it says give way only to traffic that is in the lane you want to turn into. In reality, your way is how 90% of drivers do it and traffic generally flows better if you do, doesn't mean it's correct.
:cheers:
That's correct, you give way to them by not entering into the lane they are driving in. Driving into the unoccupied lane is not "failing to give way", as you are not causing a risk of collision.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/sch99.html (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/sch99.html)
https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/R/AUSTRALIAN%20ROAD%20RULES/CURRENT/2014.205.UN.PDF (https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/R/AUSTRALIAN%20ROAD%20RULES/CURRENT/2014.205.UN.PDF)
Quote
"give way" , for a driver or pedestrian, means:
(a) if the driver or pedestrian is stopped-remain stationary until it is safe to proceed, or
(b) in any other case-slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.
Post by: #jonesy on August 04, 2017, 09:36:20 AM
The old Vic rule of left turning to give way to right turners was a good rule. It got the guy who was sitting in no-mans land in the middle of the intersection out of the way. It would be less useful these days as we have a lot of dedicated turn lanes. NZ also has/had the same rule.
Post by: Merts on August 04, 2017, 10:15:36 AM
Using cars a,b,c like the bad hand drawn one and the attached pic. Car a& b have to give way to c as he enters the roundabout in the one and only lane. That 1 lane becomes 2 and the markings don't specifically direct him into either lane, therefore he can choose either.
Nope.
Car C is going more than halfway around a roundabout, so he MUST use the right lane. Whilst there is only one entry lane, that lane continues around the inside of the central island. You will note that the left lane is effectively blocked by the painted island marking, to prevent it being used. If the driver of car C wants to go into the other lane, he MUST indicate and give way to change lanes. He can't just choose either lane.
Post by: Bird on August 04, 2017, 10:18:51 AM
Post by: GUEY on August 04, 2017, 11:04:13 AM
The two lanes on the Main Rd, would indicate it's a two lane roundabout, and if not, it would be a bl@@dy s#1t fight for cars going from two lanes into a single lane roundabout. But he did say it was a rough sketch....
Just for reference, this is the roundabout my sketch is ever so accurately copied from :cup:
It does have another entry point, but is rarely used.
Post by: GUEY on August 04, 2017, 11:08:24 AM
like the bad hand drawn one
Sheesh, you guys are harsh critics :'(
I reckon it is better than half the "art" I've seen hanging around the place :angel:
Post by: GBC on August 04, 2017, 12:45:03 PM
Nope.
Car C is going more than halfway around a roundabout, so he MUST use the right lane. Whilst there is only one entry lane, that lane continues around the inside of the central island. You will note that the left lane is effectively blocked by the painted island marking, to prevent it being used. If the driver of car C wants to go into the other lane, he MUST indicate and give way to change lanes. He can't just choose either lane.
They put those give way dots on that left lane just for you mate......they knew you'd run it. :cheers:
Post by: Ben.Archer on August 04, 2017, 01:31:24 PM
And look at all the expensive infrastructure that is built for push bike riders, dedicated cycle paths with bridges (some of them quite large), lane extensions on roads, extra push buttons and lanterns at traffic signals (which includes extra wiring and upgraded program for controller) etc. etc. Yet not a cent paid for bike rego, no wonder the roads are in such a poor condition when our car rego gets spent on bikes.
What a total load of nonsense - I have heard members of the green party make more sense.
The cost of bike infrastructure is absolutely negligible, compared to that for motorised vehicles, and unlike motorised vehicles they have a net gain to the economy in better health for those riding and don't contribute noxious NO2, CO2 to atmosphere.
The costs to the economy of your car is nowhere near met by your rego.
Post by: #jonesy on August 04, 2017, 01:38:23 PM
Nope.Show me a reference that says he must use the right lane. It requires him to use the right lane of a multi lane road ENTERING but there is only one lane on entry. No mention what lane he has to be in, in the roundabout. For him the one lane becomes 2 so he does not "change" lanes. Painted island is as good as a solid island so isn't regarded as a lane. It would be different if there were clearly marked lanes for 2 right turn lanes.
Car C is going more than halfway around a roundabout, so he MUST use the right lane. Whilst there is only one entry lane, that lane continues around the inside of the central island. You will note that the left lane is effectively blocked by the painted island marking, to prevent it being used. If the driver of car C wants to go into the other lane, he MUST indicate and give way to change lanes. He can't just choose either lane.
C has to give way to all traffic in roundabout, it doesn't have a rider of "except those changing lanes"
Changing lanes requires you to give way to vehicles in that lane. If you aren't in the roundabout you aren't in that lane.
Post by: wakychapmans on August 04, 2017, 01:50:58 PM
And look at all the expensive infrastructure that is built for push bike riders, dedicated cycle paths with bridges (some of them quite large), lane extensions on roads, extra push buttons and lanterns at traffic signals (which includes extra wiring and upgraded program for controller) etc. etc. Yet not a cent paid for bike rego, no wonder the roads are in such a poor condition when our car rego gets spent on bikes.ya know... I usually try to avoid replying to these kinds of comments. Mainly because of the way they usually flare up into a "bikes v's cars" holy war thing. ???
I've ridden bikes my entire life. Driven cars and 4wd's since I was old enough to legally. (52yo now) So I can see both sides of the story here.
But the constant misconception from the anti cyclist crowd that only those with cars are contributing to road upkeep (from rego, licensing and fuel etc) is just plain wrong.
1. Road construction is paid for out of general taxation. We all fund the roads, even those who only ever walk. Besides, rego revenue falls far short of the amount spent on roads, and is swallowed up by administration fees and third party insurance.
But just like we all pay for schools (whether we have kids or not), we all pay for hospitals (whether we need them or not), we all pay one way or another for road and cycle paths maintenance. In most cases, cyclists are also car owners who leave their cars at home to commute to work on their bikes.
2. Local road repairs are paid for by councils – your rates are subsidising people who drive through your suburb (the bludgers!).
3. Cars are charged by weight and the damage they do. In NSW, a 1.51-tonne car costs $459 to register and a 950-kilogram vehicle, $243; on that sliding scale, what might the owner of a 10-kilogram bicycle pay?
The second theory that drive me batShit crazy is regards registration plates being used for law enforcement: “I could report the number of a cyclist breaking the road rules, and they'd get a fine.”
Really... this idea fails in so many areas it's hard to know where to start. Have you ever noted the number of a car that breaks the law, (runs a red light, doesn't indicate, drives while on the phone) and phoned it in to the police? They will sigh and tell you there's nothing they can do.
But I'm a fair man... I'm happy to have bicycle license, pay rego, insurance, green slip and everything else the bike haters demand... but see... then I'd be classed as an official road user and be legally required to use the road (not the cycle paths). And I'd also be required to stay in the centre of the most left hand lane. >:D Bet that'd be fun during rush hour when I'm commuting to work...
Post by: scblack on August 04, 2017, 02:18:04 PM
And look at all the expensive infrastructure that is built for push bike riders, dedicated cycle paths with bridges (some of them quite large), lane extensions on roads, extra push buttons and lanterns at traffic signals (which includes extra wiring and upgraded program for controller) etc. etc. Yet not a cent paid for bike rego, no wonder the roads are in such a poor condition when our car rego gets spent on bikes.Wow, do you SERIOUSLY believe that car rego pays for roads and infrastructure? Rego does not even cover the administration and RTA departments required.
Muru has countered that completely as it is a common (and very ignorant) argument thrown up about bike rego not being paid.
How much of that poor condition of roads that you see, has been caused by a bike that weighs less than 10kilos?
Haha, the dumb is strong in this one. Wonder if he lives in the "Smart State"?
Post by: wakychapmans on August 04, 2017, 02:24:05 PM
How much of that poor condition of roads that you see, has been caused by a bike that weighs less than 10kilos?
actually to be fair... my fatbike, weighs around 30kgs. Though... if we include my fat arse then it goes up quite considerably... ;D
Post by: Merts on August 04, 2017, 03:25:00 PM
Show me a reference that says he must use the right lane. It requires him to use the right lane of a multi lane road ENTERING but there is only one lane on entry. No mention what lane he has to be in, in the roundabout. For him the one lane becomes 2 so he does not "change" lanes. Painted island is as good as a solid island so isn't regarded as a lane. It would be different if there were clearly marked lanes for 2 right turn lanes.
C has to give way to all traffic in roundabout, it doesn't have a rider of "except those changing lanes"
Changing lanes requires you to give way to vehicles in that lane. If you aren't in the roundabout you aren't in that lane.
So, you are telling me that in a normal 4 way roundabout, with single lane entry/exits on 2 legs, and double lanes on the other two, you can turn to the right using the left hand lane if you enter from one of the single lane roads? Good luck trying that. Don't let the lack of a straight through option for car C confuse you. Car C most definitely does have to use the inside lane to make a right turn at any roundabout with two circulating lanes.
The single lane does not become two. It continues on the inside. The other lane is the continuation of the left lane from the road from the west. If you drive into that lane you are changing lanes within the roundabout. Using your logic, car B could just veer over into the left lane withing the roundabout without giving way to car A. That's not how it works.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 04, 2017, 03:38:37 PM
Post by: Bird on August 04, 2017, 03:46:02 PM
Post by: Merts on August 04, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
This thread is a perfect round about... its been going in circles with nobody knowing what the **** is going on for days....
Indeed.....
(I'm pretty confident I know what's going on, which is probably good, as I have designed a few roundabouts over the last couple of decades)
Post by: scblack on August 04, 2017, 03:53:08 PM
actually to be fair... my fatbike, weighs around 30kgs. Though... if we include my fat arse then it goes up quite considerably... ;DHaha, but how often are ever riding your fatbike on the road?
I only ride my carbon roadie that weighs under 7kilos on the road. My DH bike only sees dirt tracks.
Lets not raise the can of worms of how fat my arse is.
Post by: wakychapmans on August 04, 2017, 04:01:22 PM
Haha, but how often are ever riding your fatbike on the road?
I only ride my carbon roadie that weighs under 7kilos on the road. My DH bike only sees dirt tracks.
Lets not raise the can of worms of how fat my arse is.
granted... not recently... but when I was "training" for the Simpson Desert Bike Challenge, I used to commute on my old fatbike (which was steel and not ti and so considerably HEAVIER)
70k each way. on 26 x 3.8" tyres. The tyres sounded like a set of mud terrains on the M4.
roadies... *hack spit* >:D
(less useful than Nissan drivers...) ;D
Post by: Pete79 on August 04, 2017, 04:47:25 PM
Indeed.....Pffft.... Bloody engineers have no idea how things work out here in the real word.... ;D
(I'm pretty confident I know what's going on, which is probably good, as I have designed a few roundabouts over the last couple of decades)
And as much as I really really wanted to avoid the cyclist discussion, I must admit I have double standards with that one.
The kids riding their bikes to school and the tradie riding to work on his busted old Kmart special are fine in my books.
But I pay $1080 per year just for the right to roll out of my driveway in ONE of my vehicles (double that if you count all of the licenses and vehicles/trailers that are registered under my name).
Be damned if some bunch of freeloaders in lycra that have not paid 1 cent should expect (demand) equal (or greater) rights as a road user.
You want to roll with your gang on the weekends and take over the road AND you want respect?? Well cough up the cash and pay your fair share...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 04, 2017, 05:24:07 PM
Post by: GUEY on August 04, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
This thread is a perfect round about... its been going in circles with nobody knowing what the **** is going on for days....In fairness, it seems opinions are pretty unanimous that my drawing skills suck...
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 04, 2017, 05:49:36 PM
Post by: Beepa on August 04, 2017, 06:27:40 PM
Wow, do you SERIOUSLY believe that car rego pays for roads and infrastructure? Rego does not even cover the administration and RTA departments required.
Muru has countered that completely as it is a common (and very ignorant) argument thrown up about bike rego not being paid.
How much of that poor condition of roads that you see, has been caused by a bike that weighs less than 10kilos?
Haha, the dumb is strong in this one. Wonder if he lives in the "Smart State"?
Awww that bike seat pushing too hard on those little smarties?....I'm sure the Tens of Millions of dollars spent on bike related items would help the roads greatly, but hey it's all about the majority supporting minorities.
Post by: Ben.Archer on August 04, 2017, 06:29:49 PM
ya know... I usually try to avoid replying to these kinds of comments. Mainly because of the way they usually flare up into a "bikes v's cars" holy war thing. ???
I've ridden bikes my entire life. Driven cars and 4wd's since I was old enough to legally. (52yo now) So I can see both sides of the story here.
But the constant misconception from the anti cyclist crowd that only those with cars are contributing to road upkeep (from rego, licensing and fuel etc) is just plain wrong.
1. Road construction is paid for out of general taxation. We all fund the roads, even those who only ever walk. Besides, rego revenue falls far short of the amount spent on roads, and is swallowed up by administration fees and third party insurance.
But just like we all pay for schools (whether we have kids or not), we all pay for hospitals (whether we need them or not), we all pay one way or another for road and cycle paths maintenance. In most cases, cyclists are also car owners who leave their cars at home to commute to work on their bikes.
2. Local road repairs are paid for by councils – your rates are subsidising people who drive through your suburb (the bludgers!).
3. Cars are charged by weight and the damage they do. In NSW, a 1.51-tonne car costs $459 to register and a 950-kilogram vehicle, $243; on that sliding scale, what might the owner of a 10-kilogram bicycle pay?
The second theory that drive me batShit crazy is regards registration plates being used for law enforcement: “I could report the number of a cyclist breaking the road rules, and they'd get a fine.”
Really... this idea fails in so many areas it's hard to know where to start. Have you ever noted the number of a car that breaks the law, (runs a red light, doesn't indicate, drives while on the phone) and phoned it in to the police? They will sigh and tell you there's nothing they can do.
But I'm a fair man... I'm happy to have bicycle license, pay rego, insurance, green slip and everything else the bike haters demand... but see... then I'd be classed as an official road user and be legally required to use the road (not the cycle paths). And I'd also be required to stay in the centre of the most left hand lane. >:D Bet that'd be fun during rush hour when I'm commuting to work...
Wayne, fully agree with you - but was too lazy and busy to write it up as eloquently as you :-)
Post by: Troopy_03 on August 04, 2017, 06:32:31 PM
In fairness, it seems opinions are pretty unanimous that my drawing skills suck...
Yeah it is a bit rough. If that car C is sitting in the Jackson road entry, either he's not supposed to turn right, or it is a p*ss poorly designed roundabout. Because he has to cross two lanes at right angles to get to the centre to turn right anyway. But you can see rubber marks on the google map pic, so people obviously do turn right from there.
But it is in Queensland too... >:D
Post by: scblack on August 05, 2017, 05:27:30 AM
granted... not recently... but when I was "training" for the Simpson Desert Bike Challenge, I used to commute on my old fatbike (which was steel and not ti and so considerably HEAVIER)Fark!
70k each way. on 26 x 3.8" tyres. The tyres sounded like a set of mud terrains on the M4.
roadies... *hack spit* >:D
(less useful than Nissan drivers...) ;D
Well, if you are commuting a fatbike 70kms, and have completed a Simpson Desert Bike Challenge, kudos to you.
Big efforts!
Post by: Hairs on August 05, 2017, 04:51:45 PM
Local road repairs are paid for by councils – your rates are subsidising people who drive through your suburb (the bludgers!).At the moment us ratepayers are fixing roads that are being destroyed by trucks carting gravel for the pacific H/way upgrade through the Clarence valley.
They are carting material from every quarry on every back road from miles away.
Local Council doesn't even have the coin to paint lines in the Car park behind the shops in Maclean.
Sorry off topic :cheers:
Post by: Pete79 on April 20, 2018, 12:03:04 PM
http://abc.net.au/news/2018-04-20/sydney-driving-at-these-complicated-intersections-is-a-nightmare/9652668?pfmredir=sm (http://abc.net.au/news/2018-04-20/sydney-driving-at-these-complicated-intersections-is-a-nightmare/9652668?pfmredir=sm)
(http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/9673032-3x2-700x467.jpg)
Now to the northern beaches, land of glistening surf, the Home and Away set and "Kamikaze Corner", as it is known by those who use it regularly.
The junction of Barrenjoey Road, Plateau Road and Old Barrenjoey Road is enough to make even the safest of drivers sweat.
Post by: duggie on April 20, 2018, 01:04:07 PM
They have been booking people who fail to indicate left when going straight through a round about . Over the last week I have followed two police cars through the same round about and neither of them indicated .
The pity is , I do not have a dash cam .
Post by: Bird on April 20, 2018, 02:45:56 PM
Funny buggers these coppers up here in Atherton .so what do you do for left? ****in hazard lights?
They have been booking people who fail to indicate left when going straight through a round about
Post by: Steffo1 on April 20, 2018, 03:01:42 PM
" She's right, mate. I know where I'm going" mentality
Post by: Bird on April 20, 2018, 04:04:56 PM
Quote from: Steffo1
Qld road rule is to indicate when exiting a r-a-b so, even if going "Straight ahead", you are required to indicate as you should, as it is bloody annoying slowing or stopping, for a vehicle with no indication of what their intentions are. I particularly loathe the ones who have their right indicator on and bloody exit.So u come to round about and stop.. and your going straight, bypassing the first exit on your left... and as you pass the first exit signal - thats how I've always understood.. otherwise if you as soon as you come to a stop before entering round about, hit the left signal, the bloke waiting at the first entrance to your left is going to think your exiting at the first exit - not the second ???
" She's right, mate. I know where I'm going" mentality
agree ****s that dont signal at all or after they have made up their mind and have taken the exit piss me off
Post by: bergersau on April 20, 2018, 09:13:43 PM
Here's my local.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/e558244a29c8fbbd8fc3cd006fc0bf5c.jpg)
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Post by: macca on April 20, 2018, 10:33:16 PM
Qld road rule is to indicate when exiting a r-a-b so, even if going "Straight ahead", you are required to indicate as you should, as it is bloody annoying slowing or stopping, for a vehicle with no indication of what their intentions are. I particularly loathe the ones who have their right indicator on and bloody exit.That's interesting, indicate to go straight ahead, novel. I think we need more indicators, which would be unfair for BMW or Mercedes drivers as they have none to start with
" She's right, mate. I know where I'm going" mentality
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Post by: Bird on April 20, 2018, 10:34:57 PM
That's interesting, indicate to go straight ahead, novel. I think we need more indicators, which would be unfair for BMW or Mercedes drivers as they have none to start with:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
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Post by: duggie on April 21, 2018, 08:10:19 AM
That's interesting, indicate to go straight ahead, novel. I think we need more indicators, which would be unfair for BMW or Mercedes drivers as they have none to start with
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Queensland straight ahead rules . 40sec mark in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4lPmo9o-GY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4lPmo9o-GY)
Post by: macca on April 21, 2018, 08:45:25 AM
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Post by: Bad Scott on April 21, 2018, 07:47:05 PM
Post by: Troopy_03 on April 21, 2018, 08:14:44 PM
Funny buggers these coppers up here in Atherton .
They have been booking people who fail to indicate left when going straight through a round about . Over the last week I have followed two police cars through the same round about and neither of them indicated .
The pity is , I do not have a dash cam .
They are probably booking them for going straight through, instead of following the road around.. ;D
The rules are pretty simple, use your left indicator when exiting a round-a-bout. And like bird says, wait till after you pass the exit, just before the one you want to use.
Post by: Hairs on April 21, 2018, 10:10:23 PM
Round aboutsYeah right.air time more to the point >:D
In a 3T cruiser, you're a funny buggar
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Post by: Rodt on April 22, 2018, 05:39:21 AM
I made her look the rule up as she nearly pranged us up a couple of times trying to do it all at once as you are basically through them by the time you finish entering.
Post by: gronk on April 22, 2018, 07:51:28 AM
My number 2 daughter who has just gone through the L - P process in NSW has advised me that the indicating rule (NSW) is indicate left when exiting (on a single lane) if safe to do so. I think they must be trying to encompass those narrow little ones that are really no bigger than a median strip.
I made her look the rule up as she nearly pranged us up a couple of times trying to do it all at once as you are basically through them by the time you finish entering.
I think the wording is if practible to do so. On small roundabouts, I find it not practible so I don't do it.
Single lane roundabouts, going straight ahead, I don't believe you have to indicate, only on 2 lane ones. This is in NSW.
Post by: Peeb on April 22, 2018, 01:54:19 PM
On those little ones, ‘give way to all vehicles coming from your right’ would work better, but because it isn’t legislated, muppets come flying in from your left thinking they are sweet if they can just get their bumper onto the rab before you do.
It makes it quite dangerous as you have to look both left and right as you approach and in built up areas the visibility is often poor so you can only see a few metres in either direction.
PS:I drove through that one at Dublin airport a few times last year. It is a doddle as it is so big you don’t even realise that you are on a roundabout.
Post by: gronk on April 22, 2018, 04:16:49 PM
Not all roundabouts are equal. The ‘give way to the car already on the rab’ works fine for the big buggers but is a total liability on the afterthought really small ones.
On those little ones, ‘give way to all vehicles coming from your right’ would work better, but because it isn’t legislated, muppets come flying in from your left thinking they are sweet if they can just get their bumper onto the rab before you do.
It makes it quite dangerous as you have to look both left and right as you approach and in built up areas the visibility is often poor so you can only see a few metres in either direction.
PS:I drove through that one at Dublin airport a few times last year. It is a doddle as it is so big you don’t even realise that you are on a roundabout.
I know where you are coming from, but as usual, you approach a roundabout from any direction...carefully.
No matter who's in the right, have an accident and try and prove you're in the right might be very hard, unless you have a dash cam that picks up the accident ( depends on where you entered the roundabout )